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Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- raydiatian 4y ago$1.7m toilet. All San Franciscans that pay tax have been victims of theft!
- someuser54541 4y agoWhat about $18.2 million for 260 tents? That's ~$5,000 a month per tent, which is more than I paid for my apartment in downtown SF. https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/S-F-officials-want-15-million-for-tent-sites-16269998.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/S-F-officials-w... It's just plain corruption, and it won't stop until voters make it stop.
- frozenport 4y agoAnd these are the success stories, where at least somebody got something.
- braingenious 4y agoI agree, that money is better spent putting folks up in empty units owned by real estate speculators.
- franckl 4y agoPrevention is better than cure... I don't find this price surprising unfortunately. A strong social security net and healthcare for all would cost much less to society and cause less suffering.
- culi 4y agoLove how community organizers are building tiny houses and creating communities and cleaning up litter and the city just tears it down and gives us tents and shipping containers instead...
- mrtksn 4y agoIt's still cheaper than incarceration, which apparently costs $64K in 2015[0]. [0] https://www.vera.org/publications/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends-prison-spending https://www.vera.org/publications/price-of-prisons-2015-stat...
- xyzzyz 4y agoIt costs as much in California, because of activism that deliberately makes it more expensive than necessary and then claims that it is too expensive to make sense. California could strike a deal with Kentucky, Oklahoma, or Nevada to send their prisoners there at half the price it costs to incarcerate them in California, and save billions while allowing the destination states to make very nice profit as well. Of course, this is not going to happen, because high prison costs in California is a feature, not a bug.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- woooooo 4y agoDo you have any cites for this claim? Honest ask, it sounds very "california" but CA is also an expensive state in general.
- ahefner 4y agoWe do need to get that figure down. The US can benefit greatly from mass incarceration, if only we can get the costs under control.
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- the_only_law 4y agoI can promise you there won’t be any charges filed in this case though.
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- slt2021 4y ago
- testfrequency 4y ago“better place”. Where are you implying?
- dymk 4y agoThat places better than SF exist and people are moving to them.
- testfrequency 4y agoWhy is everything “better” or “worse”. City vs. City. This is such a lame argument and only feeds whoever is seeking validation that they live in right place
- iinnPP 4y agoBetween myself and ~20 people I know well I have never heard of anyone having their car broken into, nor any packages stolen. This is a medium size Canadian city. I leave my packages outside overnight without issue.
- jimz 4y agoI do the same in Las Vegas, "sin city" moniker and all. I lived in Boston, NYC, LA, Montreal, and Spokane. I had two bikes stolen while I was working at the county public defender's and my girlfriend called the police, filed out a report, and nothing ever came down the line on the other side. The officer tried to talk her out of filing the report. Since I've worked in other jurisdictions and have heard broadly about how few fucks are given about property crimes generally, we don't even know how high or low this figure is in comparison to other cities with different policies. It could very well be true that people are experiencing recency bias, triggered by a question that touches upon something that wasn't taken seriously to begin with. Also, I live in Las Vegas now and I also don't know anyone who had their car broken into or packages stolen. I left my Steam Deck outside for 48 hours since it was delivered early and hidden poorly, but I wasn't looking and didn't even notice it. But since none of the polls - the Chronicle or the Standard's - mention vehicle prowling, we have even less data on that. Why even bring it up? Nobody was expecting Rumble in the Bronx (great movie in spite of the whole movie being made up of stereotypes).
- 29athrowaway 4y agoIt doesn't make sense to live in SF anymore. You can find those same jobs remotely. And with the pandemic, all my favorite restaurants have closed.
- grubbs 4y agoI never totally understood the attraction to it. Come live here in Baltimore. Plenty of tech jobs and a nice home in the city will cost 300k.
- testfrequency 4y agoBaltimore? Tech jobs? Nice home? Don’t get me wrong, Baltimore has fun bars and Orioles games are fun..but I’ve never once heard anyone try to sell Baltimore as a great place for tech workers to live and work from
- slater 4y agoObligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1dUk8x2XkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1dUk8x2XkA /s
- scythe 4y agoI've never heard Baltimore described as a place with a low crime rate! I guess it depends on what you're comparing it to. Just one recommendation. Don't move to Charleston. It's awful here, you'll hate it. ^^;
- zamalek 4y ago> It's awful here, you'll hate it. ^^; It's no surprise that SF, Portland, and Seattle are the worst of the worst. Tech workers exasperate inequality and vote in virtue signalers (to be clear, I agree with the goals, I don't agree with deciding to do nothing about these problems). If you have a good spot, seriously, keep it secret
- bmore1234 4y ago
- Snowbird3999 4y agoFWIW my car's been broken into 4 times over the last 2 years in oakland! Hasn't happened since I started leaving the rear seats down, but probably just a matter of time.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rahimnathwani 4y agoDo you mean you leave them down to make the car seem less desirable, or to demonstrate that the trunk is empty?
- onebadmofo 4y agoProbably the latter. Also it's probably a Tesla 3 that he has.
- Snowbird3999 4y agoYes the latter. Its not a tesla, nor is it particularly nice / flashy. Not that 4 broken windows would be justified either way.
- paulpauper 4y agohow is SF still so valuable if so much is going wrong
- cgb223 4y agoEveryone has Google stock from 10-20 years ago Even the new techies can’t afford houses at this point
- roflyear 4y ago
- typon 4y agoBecause there are two cities: One of the ultra-rich and one for every one else. If you take your Maserati or Model X from your garage to an underground parking lot with a security guard, you don't care that there are thefts happening on the streets. Similar reasoning applies for every other issue people complain about. Don't like open-air markets for selling stolen goods in the Mission District? Simply don't go there. Out of sight, out of mind.
- closeparen 4y agoSF's whole thing is that not even the mass affluent can avoid the "bad" areas in the way that even the middle class do in most metros. Tons of tech workers live or have offices in SOMA, Mid-Market, FiDi, Mission, etc. where the sidewalk conditions can be astounding.
- bombcar 4y agoYou just don’t sidewall then. Many people don’t walk and instead drive or Uber everywhere. For them it’s a non-problem.
- seibelj 4y agoI've found official stats to be a lagging indicator of anecdata, and my anecdata shows a lot of people moving away. If I owned an expensive condo there I'd sell ASAP.
- vagabund 4y agoPretty clear moral hazard here, not sure if I believe the number's that high.
- throwntoday 4y agoJust had my entire car stolen a few days ago. It didn't last two weeks in the city. So much for a manual transmission being a theft deterrent lol
- bombcar 4y agoI had a old manual car I never locked because a broken window was more annoying than the risk it would wander off Never lost it until my parents were using it and leaving it locked around SD. Ah well.
- truncate 4y agoI left my car unlocked by mistake in my buildings garage (the gate's not working for some time). Lost my sunglasses, mint and charging cable. They'd get in for anything. When I moved to SF, everyone told me to not leave anything, not even change in the car. Seemed extreme, but kind of true. My friend lost locked bike from his locked garage in apartment building few days ago.
- baby 4y agoReading this headline I thought to myself, this can't be possible. But then I remembered I got two packages stolen in two different neighborhood of the city, and during NYE someone broke the door of the backyard to probably see what they could steal there.
- cgb223 4y agoI thought the same thing then remembered that my car has been smash and grabbed not once, but twice
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> then remembered that my car has been smash and grabbed not once, but twice A friend in San Francisco casually mentioned their car getting broken into. The normalization is funny when one recognizes it.
- dpe82 4y agoDitto. First time I reported it but never heard anything back from the police. Second time I didn't even bother.
- icelancer 4y agoThis is how crime stats "not increasing" end up happening, because we don't report it since it's a waste of time. I'm not blaming you, I don't report 100% of the incidents I deal with in the inner-city of Seattle (something happens every quarter without fail), but unfortunately it depresses the actual crime rates that are occurring every day.
- fhsm 4y agohttps://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/chicago-crime-statistics/chicago-crime-rates/ https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/chicago-crime-st... The best documentation of this I know of is from Chicago about 10 years ago. The above was the first article by the journalist I associate with it.
- midislack 4y agoIt's just part and parcel of living in a big city.
- sn0w_crash 4y agoNo, it isn’t. You can live in a big city your whole life and not get robbed.
- ryanianian 4y agoI’ve lived in NYC for 12 years. I’ve never even had a package stolen. Luck is involved only to a certain degree.
- codeecan 4y agoI think this might be a joke based on https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801018/Terror-attacks-parcel-living-big-city-claims-London-mayor-Sadiq-Khan.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801018/Terror-atta...
- inferiorhuman 4y agoLived in SF for 15 and never had a package stolen either. In fact UPS would leave my packages on the steps (sometimes mine sometimes someone else's) all the time. I had a check stolen before it made it to my PO box once, USPS found it and returned it to me but that's not quite the narrative people are pushing.
- sneak 4y agoTell that to residents of Las Vegas or Tokyo.
- eloisius 4y agoNot it is not. There are cities much bigger than SF where you can even drop your wallet on the metro and still get it back. I live in one.
- Gigachad 4y agoIn a dysfunctional city
- google234123 4y agoThose darn Republicans and you know Reagan was governor of California one time!!
- barbariangrunge 4y agoWhat is the rate for other big cities? Is this a lot higher than usual, or only a little higher? The thing is that people steal things everywhere. Bikes. Cigarette lighters. Money left out. Scam items off Amazon or eBay is a form of theft. Your beer at parties. Lawn gnomes. I don’t know many people anywhere who haven’t had something stolen from them at some point, so I’m not sure what this is saying
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- lumost 4y agoAs a Boston resident I haven’t had any incidents of theft or violence in 10 years. I walk around with my toddler without issue.
- BoorishBears 4y agoBoston has a higher murder rate and overall violent crime rate than San Francisco, as do most large cities. San Francisco's problem is rampant property crime: Property crime is still real crime and harms people mentally... but it also means SF is physically safer than many cities that have less overall crime rates, because of their higher violent crime rates. Since it's often beneficial to an agenda to conflate the two so you'll always see something like: "San Franciscans face about a 1-in-16 chance each year of being a victim of property or violent crime" (https://www.hoover.org/research/why-san-francisco-nearly-most-crime-ridden-city-us https://www.hoover.org/research/why-san-francisco-nearly-mos...)
- srj 4y agoBoston's data is probably skewed because unincorporated cities like Cambridge and Brookline aren't included but Mattapan and Roxbury are.
- smelendez 4y agoBut some of the cities along the northern part of Orange Line might have more crime than West Roxbury, Roslindale, or Beacon Hill. It’s always going to be somewhat arbitrary
- ALittleLight 4y agoA lot of unbelievable stats in this article. "only 12% of residents say that racism does not make solving problems more difficult." That's an odd finding to me. SF has always struck me as very progressive, but now I'm seeing that a large majority of the city thinks the city has a racism problem.
- creato 4y agoMy anecdotal experience with progressive family is that racism is the root cause of almost any problem you can think of.
- iinnPP 4y agoAll those people suffering in some of the wealthiest space in your country and that is progressive. See, here is the problem.
- prewett 4y agoA lot of the visible homeless are not suffering primarily from lack of wealth but from mental health. Another segment chose that lifestyle to be free of responsibility and don't want to change. There are, of course, also people that are homeless for economic reasons, but as I understand it, they tend to be less visible, partly because they are doing things like working and sleeping in their car. The problem is that what helps the last segment will enable the second segment and not help the first, but everyone talks as if all the homeless are down on their luck. Maybe it's because there is no obvious solution to how to care for the mentally ill, and the previous solution of institutionalization turned out so badly that anything resembling that is just off the table. However, people that do not have the ability to take care of themselves need some sort of sheltering environment, which is basically an "institution". And there is no solution for people who choose not to participate in society, which is relatively okay if they just keep to themselves, but the idea that some people choose of their own volition to do things that cause a breakdown in community (like stealing, defecating on the streets, etc.) seems to be a forbidden concept to Progressives. But each of those three groups needs a different tactic.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- topaz0 4y ago
- CPLX 4y agoCopaganda, a shorthand for the tendency of police communications officials to make wildly false statements to influence public opinion, is indeed a real issue. What does it have to do with an opinion poll like this though?
- ceejayoz 4y agoCopaganda also describes true but misleading statements, and includes things like news organizations naïvely taking the cops at their word, shows like CSI and Law & Order, etc. In this case, "Any item stolen from you?" seems to include having an Amazon package stolen off your porch, which happens widely (including to me) here in suburban upstate NY too.
- readthenotes1 4y agoIs someone's stealing something off your porch not stealing? This level of crime used to be something we'd attribute to failed communities and not acceptable for civilized people (those living in cities)
- bombcar 4y agoPorch piracy seems the easiest thing in the world to catch especially in the era of work from home and infinite ring cameras. Not bothering indicates nobody really cares because Amazon is subsidizing it.
- topaz0 4y agoAmazon stole (to the court's knowledge) 8.2 million dollars from its workers and was not penalized. Was there a poll about that too?
- 4y ago
- starik36 4y agoYet they will vote in the same set of people into power.
- dmitrygr 4y agoThe understanding of cause and effect is not common. Maybe classes on logic should be required in schools?
- readthenotes1 4y agoGiven the number of tech firms in and around San Francisco, it's not the boolean operators they have trouble with...
- maerF0x0 4y agoA lot of the bay area is filled with people from another country who try to keep a low profile in order to not ruffle any feathers and risk their visa/immigration status. Along with that they have the right to pay taxes, but not to vote.
- systemvoltage 4y agoIf you want to see what's going on in California, just head over to https://old.reddit.com/r/CAguns/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CAguns/ Lot's of people applying for CCW (gun carry permit) because they feel unsafe and it is near impossible to get one in SF city. I am going to be following suit, I purchased a gun last year and going to apply for a CCW, but seems like the waiting list is 3 years and they are actively rejecting Bruen ruling by SCOTUS.
- laweijfmvo 4y agoI'm not anti-gun, and fully appreciate the need to protect one's self (and household) at home, but if I ever felt the need to carry a gun outside my home, that would be my signal to move.
- systemvoltage 4y agoA lot of people don't have the luxury to move. Specialized jobs, family, extended family, etc. They can try to move to a nicer area but then financial limitations start impeding mobility.
- throwaway892238 4y ago
- the_snooze 4y agoSan Francisco: We're Totally Surprised That Failure to Enforce Laws Leads to Lawlessness
- Someone1234 4y agoI've lived in several cities, and they all share in common police's complete unwillingness to investigate petty theft. Businesses seem to have no problem, but private citizens just aren't a high priority. I realize San Francisco has wider issues with crime enforcement, but petty theft is under-investigated and enforced in many places unfortunately.
- truncate 4y agoI think the annoying thing about SF is you'd find way more people OK with the idea to not pursue non-violent crimes, defund the police, or reduce police presence because the relationship with community is bad and mass-incarceration is a problem. And they are real problems, but also they are not going to get fixed in a year or even five years. There are certainly good number of people who are balanced in terms of supporting a trade-off between long term and short term solutions, but the voices in the extreme are definitely more heard. You often can't even casually rant about this, without getting a whole debate in response just for sake of having a debate and being woke.
- koolba 4y ago> And they are real problems, but also they are not going to get fixed in a year or even five years. SF could easily be fixed in a year. Zero tolerance policing, locking up drug abusing vagrants, and broken windows style follow up would work wonders. The problem is that the sheer force of will to get it done simply does not exist. Nobody in power is willing to step up and take the inevitable heat for the action that is sorely needed.
- crazygringo 4y agoI mean if a single package being stolen from your porch counts, then I'm surprised it isn't higher over five years. And porch pirates abound in suburbia too. The actual scary thefts are home breakins and muggings. I feel like the headline wants you to think it's those, when it's mostly stolen packages or something.
- wanderingmind 4y ago"There are lies, damn lies and then statistics"-- Mark Twain EDIT: I'm not claiming for or against this specific article, just saying people need to be wary when reading such statistics as there are lot of parameters that influence such a headline number
- i_like_apis 4y agoNothing is twisted in my assessment. Theft is rampant in SF.
- khazhoux 4y agoThe headline made me think of car break-ins and stolen packages.
- perardi 4y agoSo here is the proper source of the pool, with the actual question asked. https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sfnext-poll-crime-sfpd-17439346.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sfnext-poll-crime-sfp... Responses to the question "During the last five years, was any item you owned ever stolen from you, or did that not happen during that time?" Note that it does not specify that you reported a theft. Note that it does not ask any real context about what was stolen and how. If I was answering this, in Chicago, I’d have to say yes to how that was worded, because I’ve had an Amazon package or 2 disappear. But while that’s a valid question, I’d prefer more granular questions, because let’s be honest here, Amazon does refunds, there’s a big gap between a bag of dog food going missing and getting your car broken into. “Have any of your vehicles or properties been physically damaged by theft?” “Have you been physically assaulted for theft?” “Have you been pickpocketed?” (I’ve love numbers on that in Chicago. I feel like almost everyone I know has their phones stolen in 2021 at various festivals.)
- cft 4y agoThere's an important line that SF has not crossed (yet): murder still causes police response. In a decade or so, it will be like most large Latin American cities: murder will cause same lackluster police response as currently car break-ins do. Rich will have their own security, and poor will be afraid to walk after dark.
- nxm 4y agoSadly I worry this will be the case. Meanwhile all the “defund the police” politicians will have plenty of armed guards to protect them
- cft 4y agoI wanted to add: unlike our virtuous downvoters, i have been traveling for 5 years, and i have actually been to most Latin American capitals: Guatemala City, San Salvador, Tegucigalpa, Managua, etc... It's not the immigrants from those places that thieve , but the government of SF is like that of Managua.
- thatfrenchguy 4y agoMurders used to be so much more common 30-40 years ago in the city, just ask someone who was there back then.
- diebeforei485 4y agoIt was mostly at night time. Brazen things happen in the middle of the day now.
- ratsmack 4y agoIt appears that there was a bump up in the rate during the early 2K's. https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/murder-homicide-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/murde...
- uvdn7 4y agoI am genuinely curious about what’s the appeal of SF?
- mmmpop 4y agoThe weather is mild and predictable for large portions of the year. Good seafood, killer Asian cuisine, and Union Square has an AG store for your quality pant needs. What more could one want?
- x3n0ph3n3 4y agoPeople really fail to grasp just how awesome the weather is.
- NotYourLawyer 4y agoSan Diego weather is better.
- bombcar 4y agoDepends on exactly what weather you want. There’s a statistic called degree days https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/units-and-calculators/degree-days.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/units-and-calculators/de... and by some calculations Santa Barbara wins. The whole California coast is pretty moderate. Once you’re a bit from the ocean it can be pretty nice year-round, many houses don’t have heating or cooling to speak of.
- NotYourLawyer 4y agoSF is a little chilly for my taste, and who really likes fog?
- kylehotchkiss 4y agoIf you’re without 20 minutes of the ocean that is! Once you go east of La Mesa the summer days are pretty warm and USA’s most expensive electricity rates become more painful
- YoyoyoPCP 4y agoSan Francisco has its heart in the right place and is struggling to grapple with the reality that lax drug laws invites the wrong kind of people to the city.
- cronix 4y agoSo does basically legalizing theft for under $950, choosing not to prosecute "property crimes" and so-called bail reform where most people are just released back into society after arrest. All sound good until put into practice.
- YoyoyoPCP 4y agoCorrect. Absolutely devastating to small business owners. I've heard stories that SF is so inundated with car theft that it has created a portal that automatically approves car break in claims for insurance.
- cft 4y agoI ran a bootstrapped software company in SF till i got the hell out. Here's a video i made in my building https://youtu.be/xRjuii_jtgM https://youtu.be/xRjuii_jtgM
- inferiorhuman 4y agoSo does basically legalizing theft for under $950 Yeah, no. Theft under $950 is still theft and it's still illegal. If you're whining about the felony threshold $950 puts it pretty much middle of the road compared to the other forty-nine states. Hell, the threshold in Texas is over $2,000 and has been that high since before Prop. 47 was passed. Find another boogeyman already.
- diebeforei485 4y agoTexas prosecutes misdemeanors. Californian cities essentially do not.
- 4y ago
- foobarian 4y agoMaybe they mean the half that rents
- hsuduebc2 4y ago
- timcavel 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dwheeler 4y agoI live in northern Virginia, and I have never been a victim of theft. If this poll is correct, that amount of theft is insane. Regardless of the causes, this seems like a pretty serious problem.
- curiousllama 4y agoNoVA is more like Palo Alto than SF. DC proper is a different vibe
- brutus1213 4y agoMy rental car got broken into early evening in Palo Alto last year .. just behind the nice restaurants on University Ave. I think the crime increase may be a bit more defused.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- testfrequency 4y ago“I live in a wealthy suburb outside a major city and it’s safe here compared to an entire major city” fixed it for you
- CWuestefeld 4y agoYou seem to be implying that it's right and proper for cities to have high crime. Why is that?
- therealcamino 4y agoThe poster is only saying it is typical that crime in cities is higher than in surrounding suburbs, in the US. They didn't say anything about "right and proper" -- that's your spin.
- nkozyra 4y ago
- javajosh 4y agoI feel like only those who live in San Francisco should comment on this. It's easy to pass judgement from afar, but the situation is, like all situations, difficult to grasp for people who live there, the insiders, and impossible to grasp by anyone else. SF is an incredibly unique place with a unique history and can you really get it if you don't live there?
- georgeplusplus 4y agoI love it. We should apply this logic to all cities and states. The matters of cities and states are their own and the federal government or other states shouldnt tell the others how to live and run their own states because they dont really get it since they dont live there.
- colordrops 4y agoWhat aspect of the situation is so complex and unique that there is no parallel elsewhere so that others can't comprehend?
- NotYourLawyer 4y ago
- oefrha 4y agoI’ve lived in a much larger city with a unique, and much longer, history of two millennia. Somehow it’s not crime ridden. Indeed, it’s hard for outsiders to grasp how SF managed to fail so spectacularly.
- mc32 4y agoSF is funny. If you complain about the crime, lots of long-time residents are loath to admit crime has gone up. "It's been like this since I can remember." "Born and raised fifth generation SFer, no, it's always been like this." Ideology gets the best of people and they don't want to believe. Sure, there have been nadirs before, the 80's after all industry left and only some financial services were left downtown --there were vagrants and muggings but for the most part, if you kept away from the bad neighborhoods, you were unaffected. Now, theft is rampant and unabated. It will take years to recover from "Defund the Police" and No-bail, charge drooping DAs. It takes time to recruit Police and good Prosecutors.
- jacobolus 4y agoThe police are no more responsive (if anything, less) after the progressive DA was recalled. You can’t blame the DA or the voters for this one.
- mc32 4y agoThe situation is not unlike steering a barge. It takes time, lots of time for your actions to manifest (and of course you can overcorrect, or undercorrect as you don't see immediate effect).
- inferiorhuman 4y agoJenkins wasted no time disbanding the group within the DA's office that was responsible for investigating and prosecuting police misconduct. The barge ain't that big. https://missionlocal.org/2022/08/jenkins-removed-prosecutor-police-misconduct-homicide-trial/ https://missionlocal.org/2022/08/jenkins-removed-prosecutor-... In the latest reorganizational move from appointed incumbent District Attorney Brooke Jenkins, the attorney prosecuting former police officer Christopher Samayoa for the shooting death of unarmed civilian Keita O’Neil will be removed from the case. The announcement came in the form of an Aug. 12 all-staff memo from Jenkins, obtained by Mission Local. Assistant District Attorney James Conger was the last remaining prosecutor hired by ousted DA Chesa Boudin in the Independent Investigations Bureau of the DA’s office. That unit investigates police shootings and most police misconduct cases that may warrant criminal prosecution.
- taeric 4y agoWithout comparing to other high density cities for basic theft, I don't really find this that useful. :( To wit, in Seattle we had our car broken into once. We also had a habit of forgetting the car keys /on top of the car/, such that we would have said we live in a very very safe place. Despite the time the car was broken into. When I lived in Atlanta, the general practice was not to lock your car, so that they wouldn't have to break in to it.
- seibelj 4y agoI live in Boston, which is a similar size and population to SF, and it's extremely safe. There is some crime but even something minor like porch pirates are pretty much not a thing. There is a skid row named "Mass and Cass" which has had HBO documentaries made about it, but there are a lot of protests from citizens advocating to clean it up. At some point you need the police to arrest all these people and throw them in jail. Even a few weeks behind bars can drastically improve behavior among a population used to zero consequences for theft and violence.
- thatfrenchguy 4y agoYou probably just live in a safe neighborhood frankly. I live in a safe hood in SF and never got anything stolen, and I've seen only one broken car window in the past year. It's night and day compared to Paris for me.
- thehappypm 4y agoBoston is a very, very safe place. There are really a very small number of bad neighborhoods (Mass & Cass for example).
- eropple 4y agoI agree with you. Boston has an old reputation for sketchy areas. It surely was justified at one point, too (as well as outlying areas; Somerville was a bit eyebrow-raising when I was young, I remember that). But for most of the city, especially the places folks on HN are likely to ever be, it's quite safe. My parents sent me breathless statistics about Dorchester being a hive of scum and villainy and for being among "the least safe" areas of Boston, I never even saw a broken window, let alone heard gunshots or read reports of violence.
- tchaffee 4y agoHere's a good place to compare to other cities, if comparing is even a reasonable thing to do [1]. Sort by Total for Property Crime. Notably Albuquerque, Spokane, and Memphis have higher total property crime rates. But perhaps wouldn't make such an interesting headline for those in tech. Also notable that Orlando, FL is high on the list. But Irvine, CA and Tampa, FL are at the bottom of the list. Please also read the Criticisms sections before jumping to conclusions when making comparisons. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
- joenot443 4y agoI can only point out anecdotally that the people I know in SF who've had their cars broken into don't even bother waiting to report it to the police because they know there's nothing to be done.
- s1artibartfast 4y agoI had three or four while I was there, can't remember. Two thefts from our locked garage. Never seriously considered reporting it, but I should have just to make the stats more accurate
- DoneWithAllThat 4y agoInteresting facts about Irvine: It’s owned entirely by one of the largest (maybe the largest) real estate company in the US, The Irvine Company. They also have a heavy presence in Sunnyvale CA. Irvine buildings and neighborhoods - all of them - are built intentionally to be anti-crime. Things like alleys and dark corners are virtually non-existent.
- bombcar 4y agoThe Irvine Company is solely owned by one man now.
- deleted 4y ago
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- mergy 4y ago
- ww520 4y agoJust like what the old saying says, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions," SF is living it.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- nathanaldensr 4y ago> the road to hell San Francisco's population could use some good spirituality right now.
- jimz 4y agoThis is likely still lower than a lot lot lot lot lot of jurisdictions where prosecutors and cops don't even make any sort of effort at theft cases until the facts of the case allows for a more serious charge to stick and the theft is irrelevant. I had two bikes stolen from me, while I was personally at the Public Defender's Office, working in Spokane. Nobody called the police for that kind of stuff, and if you did, the police wouldn't do anything. It's compounded by the fact that the elements of Burglary - which is trespass + felony, no actual stealing needed, in WA - covers the really serious thefts that are seldom solved anyway, but counting burglaries would be overbroad, but reporting a theft can be yelling into the wind even with a police force that's funded by the government AND reality TV show money. Since the same poll wasn't conducted in multiple cities, there's no frame of reference. This could be very bad, or could just be a lack of points of reference when it comes to actual acts of criminal conduct that happens but never gets reported. So, without more data, the road paved with good intentions leads to a place to be named later.
- lxe 4y agoGot a $1500 bike stolen from the inside of my locked apartment in Potrero Hill back in 2015 or 16. Was very bitter about that -- it was one of the few things I brought with me to SF. Police ignored it. For weeks after I was walking through all the homeless chop shops looking for it. About a month after the theft, I received a call from someone who bought a frame (just the frame) with my serial number at a San Jose flea market. Told them to keep it -- at least it's in the hands of someone who cares. The point of my story is that theft sucks, can happen to anyone, and it takes a toll on our communities. Wish law enforcement took the problem more seriously.
- x86x87 4y agoLaw enforcement is useless if they pick and choose which laws to enforce. Laws themselves are pointless if they are not enforced (or even worse: selectively enforced)
- icelancer 4y agoProsecutor's office has a large role here. No reason for cops to investigate crimes that won't be tried.
- x86x87 4y agoThat's true. But cops also do not get to decide what they investigate based on their own beliefs and biases.
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- thatguy0900 4y agoCops are people. How well would you try to do your job after a few months of seeing your boss purposefully undo whatever work you did at the end of every day. How long would you keep actually coding if your boss just deleted all of your code every shift with no acknowledgment.
- egberts1 4y ago
- ltbarcly3 4y agoLots of people I know have been a victim of theft multiple times. Laptops, car windows, bikes, anything left for a moment will be stolen and most of the time the police will chastise YOU for letting your things be stolen, if they even come take a report which they avoid as much as they possibly can. Now that the tax base is racing for the exits it is going to be the next Detroit. Detroit used to be the richest city in the US. What will they call it, the digital rust belt?
- tmtvl 4y agoNot even half? Seems like a pretty decent place to live then.
- olliecornelia 4y agoWhat are you comparing it to?
- barbariangrunge 4y agoFirst, this survey seems to be about the last 5 years, which is noteworthy. Also, > a quarter have been threatened or physically attacked That's a much scarier thing. 1/4 people were threatened or attacked in a 5 year period? That's pretty rough
- bombcar 4y agoI’d like to see the split - most robbery involves threat (burgling is just taking stuff, robbery is taking stuff from someone like mugging).
- pclmulqdq 4y agoI have spent 20 days in SF proper in my life. During that time, I was asked if I wanted to buy drugs 5 times, I shook a suspicious-looking tail (someone/multiple people following you) twice, and I had a bottle full of blood thrown at my head because I refused to acknowledge a screaming crackhead when I walked past them on the street. I'm surprised it's only 1/4.
- awillen 4y agoDoes being screamed at by a homeless person that they're going to murder you count as being threatened? Actual question... I didn't really think they were seriously going to try to murder me (particularly since these were usually either when I was walking my large dog or in the very crowded FiDi). I live in San Diego now.
- raphaelrk 4y agoHad a homeless guy sit behind me on the bart repeatedly saying he'd slice my neck if I turned around or moved at all. It was a mostly-empty car, and it seemed like he was serious and that nobody else was going to do anything. Wound up sitting still and bolting out at the next stop. Tried calling the cops after and they didn't care in the slightest. Just one of many incidents. I live in Cambridge, MA now, and it's a million times better. Only thing remotely close that I've seen was one time biking past the Woods-Mullen Shelter in Boston (saw two other comments here call it "Mass and Cass"), except it's just one block and extremely tame compared to what you find all over the Mission, SOMA, and Tenderloin.
- egberts1 4y agoSan Francisco voters voted on a SF city proposition to make their police force even smaller. https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537593/san-francisco-proposition-e-police-staffing-results https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537593/san-francisco-proposi...
- colmvp 4y agoI'm just going to chime here with another anecdata: I've lived in London, Paris, Toronto, Melbourne, New York City, and San Francisco. The two times I've had things stolen (computer, bike) were in the Bay Area lol
- hedora 4y agoI’d have guessed over 90%, but most people I know in the city have lived there for a while. Too bad the poll isn’t broken down by how many years they’ve lived in SF, and how many thefts they’ve been victims of.
- bombcar 4y agoIt was only over the last five years.
- diebeforei485 4y agoIf anything would put an end to pro-crime policies, it is more than 50% of the electorate being a victim of crime. This explains the Chesa Boudin recall, and will explain the results of elections in the months and years ahead.
- rrdharan 4y agoSince folks are sharing stories.. I lived in the Mission for about 10 years (2003-2012). My apartment was broken into, my car was broken into multiple times, my roommate was mugged at knifepoint and stabbed (she was fine), my bike was stripped for parts (they stole the handlebars / shifters and seat while it was locked up), and my car was stolen, driven around the neighborhood in broad daylight when I spotted it at 19th and South Van Ness and tried to steal it back and was almost run over, and then it was disposed of in Hunter’s Point completely stripped and wrecked (no passenger seat, interior panels, stick shift, battery or wheels). Amusingly though I moved to NYC because of boredom, a bad breakup and the abysmal dating prospects, not the constant crime.
- birdyrooster 4y agoNot sure being stabbed would leave anyone “fine”. The traumatic memories can last for years.
- rrdharan 4y agoAgreed - I was being flippant. I still have nightmares about the time I woke up on a Saturday morning to the sounds of a disturbed and dying woman screaming after she doused herself in gasoline and lit herself on fire at Dorland and Guerrero. Some of the screams were from people who had tried to help her and ended up injuring themselves. https://missionlocal.org/2012/07/apparent-attempted-suicide-on-dorland-and-guerrero/ https://missionlocal.org/2012/07/apparent-attempted-suicide-...
- derekbaker783 4y agoIt probably depends. When I was a (fairly reckless) teenager, I got into a fight and got "stabbed" in my side (minor wound). Honestly, it's not something I consider as traumatic. It _was_ an effective way to stop the fight though.
- carom 4y agoI have dogs and love dogs. Play really rough with mine, let her chew on me. I got bit (tooth punctured, not just scratched) by a small white dog. It made me nervous around small dogs for a solid year.
- cr4nberry 4y agoThe weirdest thing I noticed moving to the bay area wasn't SF (have been there a couple times and only saw a little bit of the craziness), it was how different South Bay/Peninsula are from the city I expected the same SF problems you hear about to be issues in that area, and they really aren't (at least where I live) Idk if I would ever move into the city tbh, it just seems like a shithole. I'm sure it's less boring, but I like not having to deal with theft or BS politics I remember asking someone from the area at my job orientation if I should live in SF, and they pretty much said "no it's a literal shithole it isn't worth it" and it was such candid advice I took it Also another weird thing is I expected all the locals around here to be super progressive, but a lot of the people I've talked to were pissed off about what's happened to SF Also a question for people who know the bay area: where do you guys recommend to live for both commute and safety?
- birdyrooster 4y agoCome to downtown San Jose and you will see a lot of the same issues. It has a lot to do with scale. The peninsula Nimbys have successfully kept any scale from being realized there. We have rampant theft, breakins, unsolved shootings and stabbings, shit and piss needing to be regularly cleaned from the sidewalks. We have few sideshows luckily but plenty of streets lined with ppl strung out on drugs and no prospects.
- cr4nberry 4y ago> Come to downtown San Jose and you will see a lot of the same issues I went there once for the library and it just seemed really sketch. I never thought I would say this but maybe the nimbys aren't all bad :/ also should have clarified original comment, but what I meant was the suburban stretch from like Burlingame to Sunnyvale
- blululu 4y agoIt’s a totally rational response that is also horribly selfish. You kind of see this sentiment any time discussion of San Francisco comes up. A bunch of people who have voted to consistently take funds out of the city will jump to attack it as if it were some hated foreign country. Meanwhile the voters of California restricted local taxation to be massively regressive. The voters or America consistently give handouts to rural places. But when it comes to pitching in and helping a once great city, people would rather sit smug about how smart they are to have expelled their homeless people somewhere else.
- alex_young 4y agoI’ve been burglarized 4 times, in 4 different cities, in 2 US states, and once in Europe. I’ve lived in SF twice and in a few other Bay Area cities, and I honestly can’t tell you that my personal experience with crime in SF is all that different from the norm in most urban areas. There are places I’ve lived which seem devoid of crime, but these places seem to have more community in common than leadership or laws. Although I’ve experienced crime, I also know that the level of crime, violent or not, has dramatically dropped over my lifetime and the probability of experiencing it is greatly reduced by living in densely populated areas.
- irrational 4y agoI’m 50 and have lived in 11+ cities over my lifetime. I’ve never been robbed. How is it that one person can get robbed 4 times and another no times? It’s not like I’ve ever lived in a gated community or anything like that.
- alex_young 4y agoRandom coincidence? Once I was the victim of racism in an odd way - my neighbor actually told me they were sure the people burglarizing my house weren’t doing so because they were white. Pretty ironic.
- itbeho 4y agoMove to SF and report back in a year?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- barry-cotter 4y agoPeople do different things and hang out with different people and that has big effects on their experience of life. One of my friends when I moved to Shanghai has been in multiple fights in or near bars. I had never had that happen to me. During the next two years as I acquired an active social life involving a great deal of alcohol and spending a lot of time around a friend who does not back down and has a strong sense of personal honour and virtue I was threatened with a baseball bat and got the world’s tiniest stab wound. After my friend calmed down and went out and drank less I just don’t experience this stuff anymore. The variety of human experience is large.
- falcolas 4y agoSpeakers stolen out of my car while parked at a law firm. I was temp help, but it blew me away at the time that I could have my car broken into when parked at a law firm. I gained a bit more cynical armor that day.
- tamaharbor 4y agoI never understood the defund police movement.
- jimt1234 4y agoI was in San Francisco last week for work. A homeless guy show me his d1ck. Another homeless guy in a wheelchair smoked crack in plain view, on the corner of Ellis and Stockton. And finally another homeless guy was screaming at the elderly Chinese ladies doing tai chi in Washington Square Park. This was just a walk from my hotel to Pier 39. With all that said, San Francisco is a beautiful city.
- geuis 4y agoYou can just spell dick. We're all adults here and it's not like there's profanity filtering.
- maerF0x0 4y agono need to be a ᗪIᑕK about it
- cute_boi 4y agoEvery country, city is beautiful from one way or other. But, it is the people, good governance, good policing , society and culture etc. that ultimately makes city or country good. It only takes minority number of people to damage reputations of country, and the source of problem must be kept in check. And, I am really sad to hear that the beautiful San Fransico have been plagued by such a people. And, it seems government is doing nothing to ameliorate the situations.
- geuis 4y agoSome a-hole jumped my fence a couple days ago and stole the package waiting on my stoop. It was miso paste. All I wanted was some homemade miso soup since it's getting cold out. Been here since 2007 and seriously getting fed up with this shit.
- tjr225 4y agoWorst crime I ever experienced was in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Nobody gives a shit though because it’s Kalamazoo, Michigan.
- chaboud 4y agoI had a car broken into this last weekend. They broke into every rental car in the lot (by the ferry building). A police officer was rolling through, telling people not to leave anything visible in their cars (nothing was visible in mine). I asked him if I could file a report, and he told me I would have to go to the station. He told me he wasn't sticking around and refused to take a report. I had a similar experience last year with an officer who tried to talk us out of filing a report for a man with a hatchet who had shattered car windows with it, and I had a dispatcher refuse to send an officer for a theft crew that I'd stopped in the middle of breaking into a car before they waved a gun at me and drove at me and my son over the sidewalk. I've also had them refuse to take reports at our neighborhood station, forcing me to go to the Mission station to file a report. The police in San Francisco are less than useless. We should fire the whole set and start over.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
- rufus_foreman 4y agoWho did you vote for?
- RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 4y agoI'm not OP but not everyone could vote due to e.g. residency requirements, like me. So I "voted" the only way I could: with my feet.
- epistasis 4y agoThis is somewhat irrelevant, the police operate like a gang. There was an entire recall election becuase of "lawlessness" but it turns out that it was not the DA that was the problem, it's the police force refusing to address crime. Seems pretty likely to be direct corruption organized with the thieves.
- LAC-Tech 4y agoYou can't vote yourself out of this situation.
- CodeIsTheEnd 4y agoAlright, my bike-related tally over ~6 years in SF: - 2 stolen bike seats (one by 4th and King, one in the Mission) - 1 entire bike stolen (left out in the Castro overnight) - 1 rear wheel stolen (in a parking garage by the SF Symphony) - 1 seat post clamp (literally just the clamp they had to remove the seat, take off the clamp, then put the seat back; during a 30 minute piano lesson in the Mission) But that doesn't included the most egregious thing that I ever witnessed: I was running up to Twin Peaks on a Saturday morning, and right around noon, in the mini parking lot between the actual two peaks, with dozens of people milling about, heard someone break a car window while there was someone in the vehicle and grab a bag. A woman was seated in the passenger seat and they broke the rear driver-side window. Within seconds a car pulled up with no license plates, the guy jumped in and they sped off.
- robotburrito 4y agoI had a bike stolen from my garage. This bike lasted 6 years of Northern Philadelphia being locked out side. But couldn't survive SF haha.
- giantg2 4y ago"Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says" I'm surprised it's so low.
- ralph84 4y agoSF "doesn't have the resources" to deal with your smashed car window, but park for 2.5 hours in a 2-hour zone and you can rest assured they have the resources to ticket you for that.
- acwan93 4y agoWhat I don't understand is why this is simply normalized. My friends in the Bay Area refuse to leave anything in the trunk of their own car, even if no one has seen them put it in the trunk in the first place. How is this okay?
- hbien 4y agoI've had my car broken into twice in SF. Everyone's response to this is always "you can't leave valuable things in your car". Both times, my car was empty. Nothing was stolen. I have never left anything valuable in my car -- visible or hidden, trunk or otherwise. Not sure why people keep giving me this advice. I always keep a roll of duct tape and some cardboard in the car now. I tape up my quarter glass (the smallest of the rear windows that thieves love to break) and cover it with cardboard, to make it look like its already been broken into. I also leave my back seat down w/ a clear view into the empty trunk. That's the only thing that works.
- steve76 4y ago[dead]
- leet_thow 4y agoI refused to go into an on-site in SF because our offices are in the midmarket area. Portland OR is even worse than SF.
- ETH_start 4y agoAnd San Francisco will continue voting in the left wing govermments that produce these outcomes.
- bribri 4y agobumped into someone holding a giant knife while opening the door to leave my apartment in soma. Bike stolen in locked garage in locked bike cage with u lock. Usually take it in my apt, but stolen the one time I left it overnight. Saw techies get shoved into fences on embarcadero Wine bottle thrown across the store in Safeway. Saw things being stolen from Safeway ~25% the time I went shopping. Mentally Ill people perpetually wandering the store. Saw many physical altercations between security guards in Walgreens many times. Saw someone being tackled then spitting in the Gaurd’s face while trying to be held down. People following me while my parents were visiting shouting profanities Seeing car break ins in the middle of the day. Many scary situations Lived there 9 years. Can confirm it got much worse in the past few years.
- abeppu 4y agoThis is totally a problem (I am in that half). But is it the important problem? Potentially bigger "rampant crime" issues: - Corruption in SF municipal government - Local power company keeps causing devastating fires, killing people. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/01/24/pge-should-be-broken-over-probation-crime-spree-judge https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/01/24/pge-should-be-b... - There were more than 300 news stories about a single shoplifting incident last year, and comparatively little coverage about the chain's much larger wage-theft problem. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/07/want-to-be-a-criminal-in-america-stealing-billions-is-your-best-bet-to-go-scot-free https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/07/want-t... Similarly: - it's socially acceptable for techies to consume some drugs while hanging out in Dolores park, where we can be heard complaining about the visible drug use in the tenderloin - people have mostly given up caring that Uber, AirBnB grew with a playbook of entering markets and initially ignoring local laws. - people care if their delivery is stolen, but a lot less if their tip to the delivery person is stolen. https://www.mselaborlaw.com/news/doordash-pay-25-million-tip-theft-lawsuit https://www.mselaborlaw.com/news/doordash-pay-25-million-tip... - people care if their Amazon package is stolen, but less if Amazon steals from its delivery people. Again. https://paycheckcollector.com/amazon-wage-theft/ https://paycheckcollector.com/amazon-wage-theft/ https://www.axios.com/local/seattle/2022/10/04/delivery-drivers-sue-amazon-wage-theft https://www.axios.com/local/seattle/2022/10/04/delivery-driv... Yes, we are surrounded by and drowning in crime. No, it is not just bikes, packages and car break-ins.
- linksnapzz 4y agoWhataboutism is the greater crime.
- abeppu 4y agoA continued insistence on complaining about the nearest symptom rather than addressing any of the deeper causes begins to look a lot like complicity.
- linksnapzz 4y agoNeighborhood quality-of-life crimes ought to be the lowest hanging fruit that municipal police and prosecutors could possibly handle. If they can't catch & charge bicycle thieves, what business do they have investigating corruption at city hall, wage theft or PG&E negligence?
- RickJWagner 4y agoSan Francisco was one of the best places to live for a long time. Excellent weather, a thriving economy, top-tier pop culture status, etc. There were few advantages SF did not have. But things have clearly gone off track. As a political conservative, I tend to think about political excess (on the left side). Others may see it differently, I wouldn't blame them if they did. No matter what, I hope SF pulls things together and quickly. I also hope the solutions are transferable, because it seems some other cities have the same kind of sickness.