13 ms·

Apple gets $19M fine in Brazil for not selling iPhones with charger

138 points by bubblehack3r 4y ago

cardosof 4y ago
In Brazil, what other companies are doing is this: you buy the phone, you get the charger as a gift. It doesn't need to be in the same package, and sometimes it arrives by mail days after - as long as consumers get the charger, no one complains.
- neogodless 4y ago
  Yeah - I am coming around to the idea that chargers don't need to be included with the phone, but also you should be able to get it with the phone if you happen to need it. It should be an option you can pick whenever you buy the phone. There are definitely situations now where I really don't need a new charger when I buy a device, so if I can just pick the "no charger" option, I will. But most likely - we won't get the choice. Because it costs more to Apple and other corporations. I was a bit surprised that my S21 charged super slowly on my OnePlus 30W charger, so I had to buy a Samsung 25W charger. (There are others that work, but they were all roughly the same price as the official one.)
  - samatman 4y ago
    This is how it works. This is exactly how it works. Behold: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MHJA3AM/A/20w-usb-c-power-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MHJA3AM/A/20w-usb-c-power... Nineteen bucks, won't catch fire, gives a real 20W. Now, it might be the case that you feel the price should be zero bucks with purchase of an iPhone. Apple disagrees. They don't run promotions of that sort, or promotions, in fact. The price is the price, it's core to the brand. Same with a case, same with headphones. Need a USB-A cable for charging instead of -C? You can buy that as well. I'd make a snarky comment about expecting everyone else to pay for your free charger when we don't need one, but profit doesn't actually work that way. Other entities sell iPhones, in fact, I believe that Apple only sells a minority of phones directly. Those merchants are welcome to toss in a charger, if that's the kind of thing the customer likes.
    - plussed_reader 4y ago
      Sounds like the dongle-hell of the Scully days.
      - samatman 4y ago
        I cannot possibly understand what you think you're saying here. There are three ways to charge an iPhone, two wireless and one port, all of them run off USB, A or C, take your pick. The only wrinkle is that there are USB-C ports out there which don't speak the standard, something which Apple can't control. Where's the dongle? Where's the hell?
      - lloeki 4y ago
        > dongle-hell How so? You are precisely able to pick the charger with the port you want according to the cables you have (or want to buy), instead of having a charger with a port you don't choose (+ the cable matching the port you then don't want to have on the brick side).
    - madeofpalk 4y ago
      > They don't run promotions of that sort, or promotions, in fact FWIW, every year Apple does run back-to-school promotions where they'll give you airpods or something like that with a new mac.
      - samatman 4y ago
        I had a nagging feeling that there was an exception slipping my mind, thanks. The freebie to get students hooked on a lifetime of product fits the model, they also offer (at least, used to) student discounts on services, like classes for the Apple Stores which have that. Or did? I have no idea if that's started up post-covid or not. If they were going to give away a free charger, they may as well put it back in the box. They're good chargers, the number of people who would turn it down at checkout is a rounding error.
        madeofpalk 4y ago
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    I agree. I personally have too many chargers around the house and would happily pass on another.
_odey 4y ago
My belief is this is an issue because iphones have a unique type of charging port. Maybe if they were USBc then nobody would have cared, or they would have been encouraged not to bundle it in, as most people probaby already have a USBc cable and charger. Looking forward to when the EU will force them to switch.
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  The cable is included.
  - _odey 4y ago
    Is it iphone specific at both ends? Or is it USBc to iphone? If the latter then I really don't see why it would be a problem.
    - ajdude 4y ago
      Mine came with a USBc to iPhone (lightning) cable.
    - innocenat 4y ago
      For power user, probably not a problem. I have a bunch of charger and even USB C-to-A cable I got from various devices that I never use, since I have my own set of chargers and cables I prefer. But most users don't. They use the included charger. They need the included charger. I frequently see people asking if it's okay to use other adapters and cable with their devices. They don't know and whether it's compatible and they don't want to risk their device.
      - _odey 4y ago
        Ok so then the issue becomes: has Apple properly informed buyers they will receive a device without a charger, and they need to purchased one in the same basket if they want to have both at the same time delivered? If not then the fine is justified. Otherwise I'm on Apple's side on this one. And when all devices will have USBc cables and chargers I will be on the side of not bundling a charger with the product at all. It will just create waste.
tonetheman 4y ago
The fine seems a little crazy to me but maybe that is how you motivate a large company. It is silly that you can buy a device and not be given a way to charge it in the box. And Apple seemingly randomly changes charging ports regularly. In a normal world customer outcry would have forced this issue. But it is Apple and they care not a whit for their customers.
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  > And Apple seemingly randomly changes charging ports regularly. They what now? Lightning has been a thing for quite a while.
  - xbar 4y ago
    Right. There have been exactly two ports in the history of iPhone.
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    In fact, for longer than USB-C.
  - ifqwz 4y ago
    I have noticed that those who complain about apple the loudest haven't ever owned or even used anything made by apple.
JustSomeNobody 4y ago
So, raise the price by $20 and include a "free" charger with every order.
- rodrigodlu 4y ago
  So they will shoot in their own foot. There's already an Apple extra margin here over the US retail price. A USD 1000 Dell notebook here is about BRL ~9000 with all taxes. A USD 1000 Apple MacBook is BRL ~20000. So there's something they charge extra above the well known govt taxes. That's why no one will say sorry to Apple.
  - netsharc 4y ago
    It would've been helpful to tell everyone 9000 BRL is about 1705 USD, since they probably don't know the conversion rate off the top of their heads... and 20000 BRL is 3788.84 USD.
DarthNebo 4y ago
I guess Apple just needs to put a sticker saying this is replacement phone or no charger on the front of the packaging coz this is clearly the case of an idiotic local regulator not of customers being idiots
- hu3 4y ago
  I fail to see how writing "we still don't ship chargers" on the front will convince the same judges that just fined Apple. It didn't work in Europe. What makes you think it will work elsewhere?
hezag 4y ago
> "[...] The company cited environmental concerns for removing chargers with every purchase of the device and claimed that the decision will save 861,000 tons of copper, zinc and tin. The Brazilian Ministry of Justice remained unmoved by that reasoning, telling Apple that it could help the environment in other ways, such as giving its devices USB-C support." Fair enough.
- cruano 4y ago
  Someone should tell him that NOT firing the heads of the environmental agencies [1] of his country could make way more impact than iPhones having USB C https://news.mongabay.com/2019/06/brazil-guts-environmental-agencies-clears-way-for-unchecked-deforestation/ https://news.mongabay.com/2019/06/brazil-guts-environmental-...
  - soneca 4y ago
    Well, he is a judge, he can’t tell the president how to do his job. It doesn’t seem a good excuse to interfere in his judgement either way too.
- kramerger 4y ago
  Yeah, that's hard to argue with assuming the fine does not include Apple devices that already use USB-C.
  - madeofpalk 4y ago
    Presumably switching to a different cable would generate a one-off 'landfill event' as people throw out their old cables and buy new ones? Not saying Apple shouldn't make the move switch (and it's seemed likely for a while that it'll happen next year)
- datadata 4y ago
  That seems high a really high amount of claimed saved metals. 2.2 billion iPhones have been sold ever globally, that is nearly one pound of metal per phone. I think these chargers weigh around 5oz, and that is not entirely metal. But here we are only talking about Brazil. Maybe if they project 1000 of years of future sales the figure would make sense? It is also unreasonable to assume every charger is wasted. Some would be used or recycled.
pixelpoet 4y ago
Oh no, 19 million dollars, whatever will they do... They could very easily just ignore this as a cost of doing business.
- hu3 4y ago
  I wouldn't fool around. Judges don't take repeat offenders lightly. They both know it's a symbolic amount for now.
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    It's not really symbolic. It's reparative instead of punitive. Repeated offenders get punitive fines added to the mix.
reustle 4y ago
My rough math tells me they made $19,162,000 per hour in profit during 2021.
- myth2018 4y ago
  In fact, the fine would need to be way higher in order to perform any serious "educational" effect over Apple. However, in Brazil this sort of fine has upper limits established by the consumers protection law -- the fine must be based on losses caused to customers; it can't be proportional to revenue or profits.
  - vxNsr 4y ago
    If that’s the case then it’s exactly the right amount, any money apple saves by not including the charger is lost. If that money actually makes it into the hands of the iPhone buyers is another story.
speeder 4y ago
Brazillian here, after reading comments I think a lot of people don't get what is happening. 1. The lawsuit started when Apple dropped the chargers coming with the phone, but had just changed the cable connection, so you would need a new charger anyway. 2. Apple chargers often have ludicrous prices in Brazil. 3. Apple products in Brazil are in general expensive, people do not replace their iPhones every generation, it wouldn't be a stretch to guess that almost all iPhone purchases are first time purchases, or people replacing really old phones, thus as a rule, they don't have the appropriate charger. 4. If Apple doesn't give the charger, or sell it really cheap, Brazillians WILL use chinese knockoffs that set themselves on fire, it is just the reality in the country where all tech is crazy expensive.
- jiggywiggy 4y ago
  Apple chargers prices are ludicrous everywhere.
  - dreamcompiler 4y ago
    They're also very high quality when compared to cheap Chinese chargers that can electrocute the user, catch fire, or only produce a small fraction of their rated power safely. Are they overpriced when you factor that in?
    - jiggywiggy 4y ago
      Here is a cost breakdown: https://www.righto.com/2015/11/macbook-charger-teardown-surprising.html https://www.righto.com/2015/11/macbook-charger-teardown-surp... They are 8-10x a basic utility of your laptop. That breaks faster then my laptop. I travel a lot, cable generally lasts a year.
  - kodah 4y ago
    Is a man guilty of a crime if he knowingly lets another man climb a cell tower without a safety harness? Yes, manslaughter. The question is if Apple knew this was a problem and the degree to which they knew and made excuses or marketing for it.
cmer 4y ago
This seems like an easy problem to solve for Apple. Just sell the iPhone for $30 more, and give people the option to not buy a charger with their phone for a $30 discount. Adds up to the same thing, but instead of paying extra for the charger, you get a discount if you don't take it in the name of "saving the environment".
- lbebber 4y ago
  Yes, that’s part of the intention of the law in fact, so that a company can’t advertise a lower price than the consumer would actually pay.
- arb-spreads 4y ago
  Or just offer an option between a charging cable/brick, iCloud credit, or store credit for future purchase...
jacknews 4y ago
What the? Totally backwards. Surely any lawsuit should be that you were compelled to pay a higher price because a charger was bundled with the phone, when you only wanted the phone - maybe because you already have a charger, or wanted to use a third-party one.
osigurdson 4y ago
Most people already have chargers. They generally have a long lifespan. Why couple them with products that have a shorter lifespan?
- ajross 4y ago
  Most tech people have chargers. Most everyone here is probably drowning in them. Not getting a new piece of garbage with every device seems like a feature to us. But we aren't "most people". Surely there's a middle ground here. And I have to say it, but one piece of the solution needs to be "Apple stops selling junk with proprietary connectors". The space of people who have an extra USB-C charger is MUCH larger than folks who have an extra lightning brick. I've stopped carrying extra bricks around when travelling with the family because the laptop charger does quadruple duty on all the devices.
  - osigurdson 4y ago
    >> Apple stops selling junk with proprietary connectors I totally agree. Lightning was needed before USB-C existed but now it needs to go. >> who have an extra lightning brick I've actually never seen a lightning charging brick. Every Apple charger that I have is USB (C or the original/basic A type). Perhaps this is different in other countries.
  - dividedbyzero 4y ago
    Apple phones come with USB-C to lightning cables. There are no lightning bricks that I'm aware of. I sometimes charge my iPhone on my Anker laptop charger with the cable that came with the phone.
  - matwood 4y ago
    There's no such thing as a 'lightning brick'. Apple used to include a usb-a to lightning cable with their phones (and sometimes a usb-a power brick). All iPhones sold from Apple today come with a usb-c to lightning cable, thus already satisfying the use case you present.
nik736 4y ago
Why are tech products so expensive in Brazil? Are they taxed heavily?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- htaunay 4y ago
  Yes, in theory around 40% -> 50%, with it fluctuating over time. However in practice imported electronics tend to cost up to about 100% then their original price abroad for several reasons, usually but not exclusively related to difficulties in 3rd world countries e.g. bribes necessary to get the shipment, insurance over shipment theft, margin risk due to volatile forex, etc For example, atm an iPhone 14 costs 800 USD in the US Apple Store and 7600 Brazilian Reais in the Brazilian one. With the current exchange rate at ~5.20, that's around 80% more. Not that bad actually, that ratio has been worse in the past.
  - myth2018 4y ago
    > e.g. bribes necessary to get the shipment, insurance over shipment theft, margin risk due to volatile forex, etc Sorry but this is one of the many plain lies companies tell in order to justify their overpriced products.
- scrose 4y ago
  It’s not just tech, that’s just the most obvious to us here. Anything that’s good quality that needs to be imported is usually almost twice the price there. I saw this especially with climbing equipment
- danrocks 4y ago
  Weak currency plus up to 78% importing tax on some types of products. When I worked at <big hardware company> in Brazil, our math was to multiply the user price in USD by 3.7x to establish the price in BRL. iPhone: $800 iPhone in Brazil: $3000 Now with the currency in the toilet and companies "manufacturing" in Brazil (basically just assembling ready-made kits shipped from China) the multiplier is no longer valid, but still, an iPhone 14 basic model is $1461. For purchase parity calculations: $1461 is about 7 minimum wages in BRL. If that held for the US, an iPhone here would cost some $7500. Harsh. When the currency was strong, it was even worse. When I moved back to BR in 2011, BRLUSD was something like 0.9 (strong BRL), and a VW Jetta cost around USD 45000. Harsh.
brazed_blotch 4y ago
As if a Brazilian court cares about consumer protection. I wouldn't be surprised if the courts are _happy_ Apple are still not shipping iPhones with the charger, now they don't have to invent another reason to fine Apple to "protect consumers". €19M is peanuts for Apple, this is obviously not going to change their behaviour. That fine is sure going to line a few bureaucrats' pockets though!
benniomars 4y ago
I would like to get a fuel pump with my next car purchase.
theodric 4y ago
I'm sure Apple cares deeply about nineteen million dollars
htk 4y ago
Many people think this is Apple now having to give a charger with a new iPhone, when in fact now the customer has to buy a charger when purchasing an iPhone.
SpelingBeeChamp 4y ago
Are they fining Tesla as well?

138 points by bubblehack3r 4y ago

In Brazil, what other companies are doing is this: you buy the phone, you get the charger as a gift. It doesn't need to be in the same package, and sometimes it arrives by mail days after - as long as consumers get the charger, no one complains.

neogodless 4y ago
Yeah - I am coming around to the idea that chargers don't need to be included with the phone, but also you should be able to get it with the phone if you happen to need it. It should be an option you can pick whenever you buy the phone. There are definitely situations now where I really don't need a new charger when I buy a device, so if I can just pick the "no charger" option, I will. But most likely - we won't get the choice. Because it costs more to Apple and other corporations. I was a bit surprised that my S21 charged super slowly on my OnePlus 30W charger, so I had to buy a Samsung 25W charger. (There are others that work, but they were all roughly the same price as the official one.)
- samatman 4y ago
  This is how it works. This is exactly how it works. Behold: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MHJA3AM/A/20w-usb-c-power-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MHJA3AM/A/20w-usb-c-power... Nineteen bucks, won't catch fire, gives a real 20W. Now, it might be the case that you feel the price should be zero bucks with purchase of an iPhone. Apple disagrees. They don't run promotions of that sort, or promotions, in fact. The price is the price, it's core to the brand. Same with a case, same with headphones. Need a USB-A cable for charging instead of -C? You can buy that as well. I'd make a snarky comment about expecting everyone else to pay for your free charger when we don't need one, but profit doesn't actually work that way. Other entities sell iPhones, in fact, I believe that Apple only sells a minority of phones directly. Those merchants are welcome to toss in a charger, if that's the kind of thing the customer likes.
  - plussed_reader 4y ago
    Sounds like the dongle-hell of the Scully days.
    - samatman 4y ago
      I cannot possibly understand what you think you're saying here. There are three ways to charge an iPhone, two wireless and one port, all of them run off USB, A or C, take your pick. The only wrinkle is that there are USB-C ports out there which don't speak the standard, something which Apple can't control. Where's the dongle? Where's the hell?
    - lloeki 4y ago
      > dongle-hell How so? You are precisely able to pick the charger with the port you want according to the cables you have (or want to buy), instead of having a charger with a port you don't choose (+ the cable matching the port you then don't want to have on the brick side).
  - madeofpalk 4y ago
    > They don't run promotions of that sort, or promotions, in fact FWIW, every year Apple does run back-to-school promotions where they'll give you airpods or something like that with a new mac.
    - samatman 4y ago
      I had a nagging feeling that there was an exception slipping my mind, thanks. The freebie to get students hooked on a lifetime of product fits the model, they also offer (at least, used to) student discounts on services, like classes for the Apple Stores which have that. Or did? I have no idea if that's started up post-covid or not. If they were going to give away a free charger, they may as well put it back in the box. They're good chargers, the number of people who would turn it down at checkout is a rounding error.
      - madeofpalk 4y ago
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  I agree. I personally have too many chargers around the house and would happily pass on another.

_odey 4y ago

My belief is this is an issue because iphones have a unique type of charging port. Maybe if they were USBc then nobody would have cared, or they would have been encouraged not to bundle it in, as most people probaby already have a USBc cable and charger. Looking forward to when the EU will force them to switch.

cassianoleal 4y ago
The cable is included.
- _odey 4y ago
  Is it iphone specific at both ends? Or is it USBc to iphone? If the latter then I really don't see why it would be a problem.
  - ajdude 4y ago
    Mine came with a USBc to iPhone (lightning) cable.
  - innocenat 4y ago
    For power user, probably not a problem. I have a bunch of charger and even USB C-to-A cable I got from various devices that I never use, since I have my own set of chargers and cables I prefer. But most users don't. They use the included charger. They need the included charger. I frequently see people asking if it's okay to use other adapters and cable with their devices. They don't know and whether it's compatible and they don't want to risk their device.
    - _odey 4y ago
      Ok so then the issue becomes: has Apple properly informed buyers they will receive a device without a charger, and they need to purchased one in the same basket if they want to have both at the same time delivered? If not then the fine is justified. Otherwise I'm on Apple's side on this one. And when all devices will have USBc cables and chargers I will be on the side of not bundling a charger with the product at all. It will just create waste.

tonetheman 4y ago

The fine seems a little crazy to me but maybe that is how you motivate a large company. It is silly that you can buy a device and not be given a way to charge it in the box. And Apple seemingly randomly changes charging ports regularly. In a normal world customer outcry would have forced this issue. But it is Apple and they care not a whit for their customers.

JustSomeNobody 4y ago
> And Apple seemingly randomly changes charging ports regularly. They what now? Lightning has been a thing for quite a while.
- xbar 4y ago
  Right. There have been exactly two ports in the history of iPhone.
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  In fact, for longer than USB-C.
- ifqwz 4y ago
  I have noticed that those who complain about apple the loudest haven't ever owned or even used anything made by apple.

JustSomeNobody 4y ago

So, raise the price by $20 and include a "free" charger with every order.

rodrigodlu 4y ago
So they will shoot in their own foot. There's already an Apple extra margin here over the US retail price. A USD 1000 Dell notebook here is about BRL ~9000 with all taxes. A USD 1000 Apple MacBook is BRL ~20000. So there's something they charge extra above the well known govt taxes. That's why no one will say sorry to Apple.
- netsharc 4y ago
  It would've been helpful to tell everyone 9000 BRL is about 1705 USD, since they probably don't know the conversion rate off the top of their heads... and 20000 BRL is 3788.84 USD.

DarthNebo 4y ago

I guess Apple just needs to put a sticker saying this is replacement phone or no charger on the front of the packaging coz this is clearly the case of an idiotic local regulator not of customers being idiots

hu3 4y ago
I fail to see how writing "we still don't ship chargers" on the front will convince the same judges that just fined Apple. It didn't work in Europe. What makes you think it will work elsewhere?

hezag 4y ago

> "[...] The company cited environmental concerns for removing chargers with every purchase of the device and claimed that the decision will save 861,000 tons of copper, zinc and tin. The Brazilian Ministry of Justice remained unmoved by that reasoning, telling Apple that it could help the environment in other ways, such as giving its devices USB-C support." Fair enough.

cruano 4y ago
Someone should tell him that NOT firing the heads of the environmental agencies [1] of his country could make way more impact than iPhones having USB C https://news.mongabay.com/2019/06/brazil-guts-environmental-agencies-clears-way-for-unchecked-deforestation/ https://news.mongabay.com/2019/06/brazil-guts-environmental-...
- soneca 4y ago
  Well, he is a judge, he can’t tell the president how to do his job. It doesn’t seem a good excuse to interfere in his judgement either way too.
kramerger 4y ago
Yeah, that's hard to argue with assuming the fine does not include Apple devices that already use USB-C.
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  Presumably switching to a different cable would generate a one-off 'landfill event' as people throw out their old cables and buy new ones? Not saying Apple shouldn't make the move switch (and it's seemed likely for a while that it'll happen next year)
datadata 4y ago
That seems high a really high amount of claimed saved metals. 2.2 billion iPhones have been sold ever globally, that is nearly one pound of metal per phone. I think these chargers weigh around 5oz, and that is not entirely metal. But here we are only talking about Brazil. Maybe if they project 1000 of years of future sales the figure would make sense? It is also unreasonable to assume every charger is wasted. Some would be used or recycled.

pixelpoet 4y ago

Oh no, 19 million dollars, whatever will they do... They could very easily just ignore this as a cost of doing business.

hu3 4y ago
I wouldn't fool around. Judges don't take repeat offenders lightly. They both know it's a symbolic amount for now.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  It's not really symbolic. It's reparative instead of punitive. Repeated offenders get punitive fines added to the mix.

reustle 4y ago

My rough math tells me they made $19,162,000 per hour in profit during 2021.

myth2018 4y ago
In fact, the fine would need to be way higher in order to perform any serious "educational" effect over Apple. However, in Brazil this sort of fine has upper limits established by the consumers protection law -- the fine must be based on losses caused to customers; it can't be proportional to revenue or profits.
- vxNsr 4y ago
  If that’s the case then it’s exactly the right amount, any money apple saves by not including the charger is lost. If that money actually makes it into the hands of the iPhone buyers is another story.

speeder 4y ago

Brazillian here, after reading comments I think a lot of people don't get what is happening. 1. The lawsuit started when Apple dropped the chargers coming with the phone, but had just changed the cable connection, so you would need a new charger anyway. 2. Apple chargers often have ludicrous prices in Brazil. 3. Apple products in Brazil are in general expensive, people do not replace their iPhones every generation, it wouldn't be a stretch to guess that almost all iPhone purchases are first time purchases, or people replacing really old phones, thus as a rule, they don't have the appropriate charger. 4. If Apple doesn't give the charger, or sell it really cheap, Brazillians WILL use chinese knockoffs that set themselves on fire, it is just the reality in the country where all tech is crazy expensive.

jiggywiggy 4y ago
Apple chargers prices are ludicrous everywhere.
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  They're also very high quality when compared to cheap Chinese chargers that can electrocute the user, catch fire, or only produce a small fraction of their rated power safely. Are they overpriced when you factor that in?
  - jiggywiggy 4y ago
    Here is a cost breakdown: https://www.righto.com/2015/11/macbook-charger-teardown-surprising.html https://www.righto.com/2015/11/macbook-charger-teardown-surp... They are 8-10x a basic utility of your laptop. That breaks faster then my laptop. I travel a lot, cable generally lasts a year.
- kodah 4y ago
  Is a man guilty of a crime if he knowingly lets another man climb a cell tower without a safety harness? Yes, manslaughter. The question is if Apple knew this was a problem and the degree to which they knew and made excuses or marketing for it.

cmer 4y ago

This seems like an easy problem to solve for Apple. Just sell the iPhone for $30 more, and give people the option to not buy a charger with their phone for a $30 discount. Adds up to the same thing, but instead of paying extra for the charger, you get a discount if you don't take it in the name of "saving the environment".

lbebber 4y ago
Yes, that’s part of the intention of the law in fact, so that a company can’t advertise a lower price than the consumer would actually pay.
arb-spreads 4y ago
Or just offer an option between a charging cable/brick, iCloud credit, or store credit for future purchase...

jacknews 4y ago

What the? Totally backwards. Surely any lawsuit should be that you were compelled to pay a higher price because a charger was bundled with the phone, when you only wanted the phone - maybe because you already have a charger, or wanted to use a third-party one.

osigurdson 4y ago

Most people already have chargers. They generally have a long lifespan. Why couple them with products that have a shorter lifespan?

ajross 4y ago
Most tech people have chargers. Most everyone here is probably drowning in them. Not getting a new piece of garbage with every device seems like a feature to us. But we aren't "most people". Surely there's a middle ground here. And I have to say it, but one piece of the solution needs to be "Apple stops selling junk with proprietary connectors". The space of people who have an extra USB-C charger is MUCH larger than folks who have an extra lightning brick. I've stopped carrying extra bricks around when travelling with the family because the laptop charger does quadruple duty on all the devices.
- osigurdson 4y ago
  >> Apple stops selling junk with proprietary connectors I totally agree. Lightning was needed before USB-C existed but now it needs to go. >> who have an extra lightning brick I've actually never seen a lightning charging brick. Every Apple charger that I have is USB (C or the original/basic A type). Perhaps this is different in other countries.
- dividedbyzero 4y ago
  Apple phones come with USB-C to lightning cables. There are no lightning bricks that I'm aware of. I sometimes charge my iPhone on my Anker laptop charger with the cable that came with the phone.
- matwood 4y ago
  There's no such thing as a 'lightning brick'. Apple used to include a usb-a to lightning cable with their phones (and sometimes a usb-a power brick). All iPhones sold from Apple today come with a usb-c to lightning cable, thus already satisfying the use case you present.

nik736 4y ago

Why are tech products so expensive in Brazil? Are they taxed heavily?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
htaunay 4y ago
Yes, in theory around 40% -> 50%, with it fluctuating over time. However in practice imported electronics tend to cost up to about 100% then their original price abroad for several reasons, usually but not exclusively related to difficulties in 3rd world countries e.g. bribes necessary to get the shipment, insurance over shipment theft, margin risk due to volatile forex, etc For example, atm an iPhone 14 costs 800 USD in the US Apple Store and 7600 Brazilian Reais in the Brazilian one. With the current exchange rate at ~5.20, that's around 80% more. Not that bad actually, that ratio has been worse in the past.
- myth2018 4y ago
  > e.g. bribes necessary to get the shipment, insurance over shipment theft, margin risk due to volatile forex, etc Sorry but this is one of the many plain lies companies tell in order to justify their overpriced products.
scrose 4y ago
It’s not just tech, that’s just the most obvious to us here. Anything that’s good quality that needs to be imported is usually almost twice the price there. I saw this especially with climbing equipment
danrocks 4y ago
Weak currency plus up to 78% importing tax on some types of products. When I worked at <big hardware company> in Brazil, our math was to multiply the user price in USD by 3.7x to establish the price in BRL. iPhone: $800 iPhone in Brazil: $3000 Now with the currency in the toilet and companies "manufacturing" in Brazil (basically just assembling ready-made kits shipped from China) the multiplier is no longer valid, but still, an iPhone 14 basic model is $1461. For purchase parity calculations: $1461 is about 7 minimum wages in BRL. If that held for the US, an iPhone here would cost some $7500. Harsh. When the currency was strong, it was even worse. When I moved back to BR in 2011, BRLUSD was something like 0.9 (strong BRL), and a VW Jetta cost around USD 45000. Harsh.

brazed_blotch 4y ago

As if a Brazilian court cares about consumer protection. I wouldn't be surprised if the courts are _happy_ Apple are still not shipping iPhones with the charger, now they don't have to invent another reason to fine Apple to "protect consumers". €19M is peanuts for Apple, this is obviously not going to change their behaviour. That fine is sure going to line a few bureaucrats' pockets though!

benniomars 4y ago

I would like to get a fuel pump with my next car purchase.

theodric 4y ago

I'm sure Apple cares deeply about nineteen million dollars

htk 4y ago

Many people think this is Apple now having to give a charger with a new iPhone, when in fact now the customer has to buy a charger when purchasing an iPhone.

SpelingBeeChamp 4y ago

Are they fining Tesla as well?