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I've been remote hiring for years. Remote positions are a magnet for fraud of all types. If you have the budget, I highly recommend moving your compensation po
by PragmaticPulp 4y ago
I've been remote hiring for years. Remote positions are a magnet for fraud of all types.
If you have the budget, I highly recommend moving your compensation points up and focusing on top engineers in remote locations. It's much easier to vet people who have an established online track record and you can tap references from well-known companies. Unfortunately this way you will miss out on some great candidates that haven't yet established themselves, so you still have to branch out.
For remote work we require video interviews and cameras on during meetings. We'd make an exception if someone really needed accommodations to keep their camera off for some reason, but otherwise it's cameras on. I know some people don't like this, but it improves communication and team cohesion in a noticeable way. It also immediately highlights fraud like this.
Get your security team involved. You should be tracking where remote employees access your VPN and company services. Don't be afraid to ask about discrepancies and changes. If someone has logged in from one IP or region for the first 4 weeks and then suddenly you're seeing new logins from a different city or country, investigate. I don't care if people travel, but we need to firmly understand the security situation.
Watch out for people with frequent excuses for missing meetings, having to turn their camera off, excuses like "my camera isn't working today", and so on. Send everyone known-good webcams and company laptops.
And as always, performance management is key. Managing remote is harder than managing in person, and I say that as someone who manages remote and loves remote teams. You need strong performance management practices in place and clear ways to measure it. People who aren't getting their work done should show up quickly in your system and warrant additional manager investigation.
But if someone shows up in Zoom who isn't the person you hired, lock it down ASAP. Don't let being "nice" get in the way of handling an urgent security situation. Someone you didn't hire who hasn't agreed to your contracts is in your system, and that's a red alert emergency.
- ryandrake 4y ago> Watch out for people with frequent excuses for missing meetings, having to turn their camera off, excuses like "my camera isn't working today", and so on. Send everyone known-good webcams and company laptops. Yes, "camera isn't working" should be the easiest problem for the company to solve! "OK, we're overnighting a laptop with a working webcam to your address in our HR system. Please use that known working camera tomorrow."
- Test0129 4y agoI keep my camera off all the time because I don't like having it on when I'm tabbed off doing my actual job. While the PM is bleeting on about whatever they feel is important I can do actual work. Cameras shouldn't be required. Learn to vet your employees.
- veb 4y agoFor me personally I need people's cameras on as I find hearing a bit difficult (I wear a cochlear implant) so I utilise lip-reading to fill in the gaps.
- Test0129 4y agoThat's a good counter-argument. Don't most major providers provide closed captions? Or is it only Google Meet?
- AdamJacobMuller 4y agoSkype does, teams does not, slack does not.
- Mandatum 4y agoZoom does, Teams does, Slack does.
- WesolyKubeczek 4y agoHow do you manage it if there are latency issues / sudden quality drops?
- urbandw311er 4y agoPersonally I find it disrespectful when people don’t pay attention in meetings and decide they’re going to make their own call about what’s important and what isn’t. So I’d probably enforce the “camera on” policy, notice that you’re not paying attention and this means the issue gets discussed. At this point I do more digging/reviews and I either agree with your point and work with the PM to get them to be more concise, or I disagree with you and you’re released from the team for having values that don’t align with ours. Either way my problem gets fixed because I had people put their cameras on and communicate like grown ups.
- KolmogorovComp 4y ago> If someone has logged in from one IP or region for the first 4 weeks and then suddenly you're seeing new logins from a different city or country, investigate. I don't care if people travel, but we need to firmly understand the security situation. Couldn’t they just say they use a VPN?
- nradov 4y agoEmployees should only even use a company supplied computer with a corporate VPN to access internal company resources. That's just a basic security practice.
- ghaff 4y agoThere are plenty of ways of securing access from BYO devices. There are certainly circumstances where your statement is true but it’s very far from universal.
- stevewatson301 4y agoA login from a data center IP would stick out like a sore thumb.
- ThrowawayR2 4y agoAren't background checks that include verification of past employment and educational history the norm for North America-based businesses for candidates that have gotten to the on-boarding stage? I'd have thought it would be difficult for a fake candidate to get past those.
- Cyberdog 4y agoSure, but what we're talking about is working with consulting companies and agencies who are assumed to have done their own vetting of their employees, and are representing the skills of those employees accurately to the companies that contract with them.
- cyanydeez 4y agoThe fraud in these cases are standing up all the credentials, then sending some random afterwards
- worthless-trash 4y agoI've seen 30 - 60 - 90 day reviews and seen people let go in that timeframe. Is that not a thing in the US ?
- pc86 4y agoOf course it is, but what does this have to do with someone else showing up for day 1 rather than the person who interviewed?
- worthless-trash 4y agoI'd not saying its helping, but you got a legal out.. at least.
- Melatonic 4y agoGood advice
- klhutchins 4y agoI think I've had my camera on once the entire time I've been remote in ~5 years at my organization, and the same for 90% of my colleagues. I understand the need to ensure the person on the meeting is the person hired, but is this really how it is elsewhere? Everyone wants to see everyone else?
- ghaff 4y agoFor a big meeting where someone is presenting anyway? No. For one and ones and small team meetings? Generally yes unless there’s some one off reason not to.
- stevage 4y agoCompletely the opposite in the places I have worked. Never seen anyone who had camera off regularly.
- vehementi 4y agoYep, working for a BigCo and the culture was just as a matter of course to turn cameras on and see each other. I am really curious where the opposite is coming from
- freetime2 4y agoDuring the pandemic, it was HR’s policy that people shouldn’t be pressured to turn on their webcam when working from home. Reason being that not everyone had an ideal working environment, and being forced to turn on your camera would only add to the stress. That policy has kind of stuck around with our team, and now people rarely turn on their cameras during team meetings. I would prefer to see peoples’ faces, but it seems I'm in the minority, and I’ve given up on trying to advocate for it.
- pc86 4y agoThis seems like the kind of policy someone would make if they didn't understand how a blurred background worked.
- BeetleB 4y ago> For remote work we require video interviews and cameras on during meetings. I can understand interviews, but once a person is part of the team and team members have met with him often enough (with the camera on) to recognize his voice, what is the point of having the camera on? > I know some people don't like this, but it improves communication and team cohesion in a noticeable way. This is one of those things for which there is no True Method. Yes, a lot of people have better team dynamics with the camera on. And yes, a lot of people have worse team dynamics with it on. Mandating one way or the other is suboptimal.
- wyager 4y ago> what is the point of having the camera on Human social interaction is deeply dependent on facial communication.
- SantalBlush 4y agoI don't know, there was a time when an enormous amount of human social interaction took place over the phone. Even when doing business.
- BeetleB 4y ago> Human social interaction is deeply dependent on facial communication. It's a broad statement, and not clear how applicable it is for work purposes and for which category of work. Also, while it has its positives, it also as clearly has its negatives. Most miscommunication is due to misreading of visual cues. I can say it certainly is nice to be able to talk to people and not have them register any frown I may have, when the frown is unrelated to them. Not having to modulate my facial expressions frees up my brain to focus on the content of the meeting. In my experience, people who seem to need facial communication do exist[1], but it's not a universal thing and likely not the majority. It's annoying when instead of phrasing it as an accommodation they would like to have, they try to make objective sounding statements to support their preference. [1] I'm guessing that set has a strong intersection with the set of people who used to insist that they be able to travel pre-COVID to meet other team members as "in-person interactions are more effective". They certainly are - for them.
- maayank 4y ago> You need strong performance management practices in place and clear ways to measure it. People who aren't getting their work done should show up quickly in your system What performance management practices or metrics worked well for you?
- boltzmann-brain 4y agoI never turn my camera on because I feel uncomfortable. I have zero references. I have zero public facing projects. I've been a programmer for the last 30 years. I can solve any problem. I've created more than $1B value for companies I worked for in my career. That alone makes everything you said about cameras or strong vetting or online track records simply invalid. Instead take the time to find out who you're talking to and if they make sense. If you can't, first hire someone who can. And if you're hiring so fast that you can't tell whether you hired the same person as who showed up, then you're hiring too fast. Stop trying to out-grow time. I agree about the raising alarm bit, that stuff needs to happen very quickly.
- freetime2 4y agoCan you elaborate more on why you feel uncomortable? Not saying you're wrong - just trying to get a better understanding of why a lot of people seem to feel that way.
- boltzmann-brain 4y agoYes, and I did [1] during one of the myriad other threads that are curiously [2] popping up all the time. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32674503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32674503 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33002690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33002690
- warvariuc 4y ago> I can solve any problem. I've created more than $1B value for companies I worked for in my career. That sounds suspicious. I don't know anyone who "can solve any problem". And in order to deliver larger value you need to work in a team. How can you be an effective team member with a fear of video calls?
- boltzmann-brain 4y ago> How can you be an effective team member with a fear of video calls? LOL, maybe because video calls are not part of that? > I don't know anyone who "can solve any problem" that's what happens when you hire for "seniors" but pay junior salary: you get juniors occupying senior positions. Not surprised that's all you know - the industry does that a lot.
- justrudd 4y agoI’ve been leaving my camera off for the past couple of weeks because I’m going through radiation treatment for cancer in my throat. My neck is red, my cheek is swollen from the canker sores that won’t go away, my beard (which I’ve had for over a decade and was quite proud of) is patchy and falling out, my left eye won’t quit “crying”, etc. I don’t have my camera on because I don’t want to explain all that to people. The people that need to know know. So just an FYI. Maybe people are turning their cameras off for a reason.
- Sammi 4y agoYes that's what OP said: "We'd make an exception if someone really needed accommodations to keep their camera off for some reason".
- justrudd 4y agoYep. But my concern is with the phrasing “We’d make an exception if someone really needed accommodations”. Like it’s their decision whether or not someone has their camera on. Who is included in that decision? Just the manager? Do they get to look at you and say “You don’t look so bad”? Do you get to veto if you really don’t want to turn your camera on? I think it’s easier to approach every situation with an open mind towards kindness. And sometimes people just don’t want their camera on.
- jimmaswell 4y agoI would absolutely never work anywhere that required webcams on. Maybe for the interview but that's it.
- sumedh 4y agoWhy not?
- jimmaswell 4y agoIt's invasive and draining. I'd have to worry about looking like I'm paying attention the whole time, couldn't do dishes or anything like that, I'd have to make sure I'm wearing something work appropriate (no going shirtless), and I'd have to be careful about what I put in my surroundings.
- dalyons 4y agoYou would never put it on? I think it’s fine if you turn it off because it’s a huge call or you’re occasionally doing the dishes or whatever, but always off is disrespectful to your colleagues imho.
- jimmaswell 4y agoAt my company nobody turns the cameras on in the first place. I don't see any value they would add to a meeting, only distraction.
- dalyons 4y agoi mean ok, if thats the culture at your workplace, thats what it is. However, if you cant see the extra human engagement, social/communication cues, and generally increased feeling of attentiveness and respect that watching a speaker's actual human face brings, vs audio only... then i dont know what more to say. If you're just some passive listener in a large group call then yeah, whatever. But small groups, 1/1s, etc cameras on is absolutely adding value, even if you personally don't see it.