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The road to realistic full-body deepfakes
- prox 4y agoI have been wondering if using a human 3d model (which are quite real, but not 100% there yet) can be overwritten by better texturing -after the render- for complete immersion. So you use a motion tracked animation of a 3d model (or static for a picture) and then apply a way to make the last bit more convincing with better texture and lighting.
- echelon 4y agoI have year old demos on https://storyteller.io https://storyteller.io. Some of the others in this space have great results : https://imgur.io/seBTPG8 https://imgur.io/seBTPG8 We've perfected voice replacement and I'll have more to show soon.
- skilled 4y agoHmm, this does make me wonder what kind of an effect will deepfakes have on people's general perception of the world? I might be far fetching here, but wouldn't this lead to people being more mindful of what they watch and interact with? I think all that it will take is a few "state of the art" deepfakes to cause a ruckus and the domino effect should do the rest. Anyone in the field spent time thinking on this or has had similar notions?
- wussboy 4y agoI think we will get to a point where trust will only come from face-to-face physical meetings. We won't be able to believe in Zoom calls, phone calls, nothing except face-to-face. Just like it was for millions of years before now.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y agoIt's already become an arms race. KYC identity services are already adding liveness and deep fake detection features.
- intrasight 4y agoIn the future, TVs and monitors and smartphones will have built-in "truth meters". Face-to-face is only applicable with you small social network.
- wussboy 4y ago> Face-to-face is only applicable with you small social network. That is my point precisely. And I will point out here that small social networks are our historical environment. I believe not only can we return to them and flourish, but also that it would be a great boon to human flourishing, the only outcome that really matters.
- intrasight 4y agoI agree but I'm afraid that we're moving in the opposite direction. VR and deep fakes will make for interesting times. I've worked at home for nearly 20 years so I've had to learn to create a strong in-person social network. The pandemic and some medical issues have interfered, but I still much more enjoy having fun with my friends than doing things online.
- alecfreudenberg 4y agoYeah a little more skepticism will be nice, but I still personally see myself getting fleeced every now and then.
- novaRom 4y agoThe Great Dictator 2023 with Charlie Chaplin would be great!
- overthemoon 4y agoThat the two splashy examples are hot people in their underwear is pretty telling for what one major use of this will be. Makes me feel weird. I find takes on deepfakes fraying shared epistemology alarmist, people will continue to believe whatever they want to believe and falsifying evidence is still a crime, but the ability to conjure moving images of whatever human body you want without that person's permission feels bad. DALL-E adding protections against sexual or violent imagery is a short term solution, at best, IMO. Maybe I'm being alarmist, too. Perhaps it won't be as easy as toggling a switch next to your friend's photo to take their clothes off.
- londons_explore 4y ago> Perhaps it won't be as easy as toggling a switch next to your friend's photo to take their clothes off. Thats totally a browser extension next year... Right click, remove clothes... When you think about it, ethically it's in the same ballpark as right click, copy, something you probably also be doing without asking the subject of the image.
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- r3trohack3r 4y ago> Perhaps it won't be as easy as toggling a switch next to your friend's photo to take their clothes off. Unless an existing reference image exists - whatever the switch does will be a guess. Many motivated folks already do this with photoshop; it’s all over 4chan and similar message boards (request threads) and has been that way for at least a decade. This is already the reality for celebrities with photoshop - their likeness is returned unclothed in image search. That’s not their body
- AlecSchueler 4y agoThat's not really comparable though, as it's basically composite work. The AI has the ability to infer then to "imagine" with photorealistic results. There would be small details kept intact between the source image and the output that would make it feel much more personal than even the best manual fakes of today.
- beders 4y agoNow everyone can build their own Star Wars sequel movies! I was wondering about that after the disaster that was TROS. I didn't think it would be possible to do in this decade, but we seem to be making progress fast now. Very impressive to see. (and scary)
- macrolime 4y agoI don't think you need videos with extreme levels of annotations as this article suggests. If a model is already trained on lots of images and captions, it would probably be possible to just feed it tons of whatever video and let it figure out the rest itself.
- runeks 4y agoHow about first making deepfake faces actually believable? Seems like every AI project does something halfheartedly, ponders what the world will be like once it’s perfected, and then starts the next project long before the first project is actually useful for anything but meme videos.
- black_puppydog 4y agoThat's what goes to media. "Engineers scrap last little artifacts off deep-fake still images" just doesn't make for "good" headlines. Somewhere, someone is working hard to perfect these. In this particular case probably under NDA... le sigh
- BudaDude 4y agoI didn't know me and AI had so much in common.
- walls 4y agoThey're believable enough for video calls: https://www.dw.com/en/vitali-klitschko-fake-tricks-berlin-mayor-in-video-call/a-62257289 https://www.dw.com/en/vitali-klitschko-fake-tricks-berlin-ma...
- kleiba 4y agoAs far as I remember those calls were actually not made with deep fake tech, but by reusing video material from a previous call, skillfully edited to be believable enough.
- jcims 4y agoI think the problem we have with deepfake believability today it just takes one weak link to spoil it. It turns out that we're somehow still pretty bad at believable audio and not even close with deepfaked 'presence' in the form of persona of motion. But if you pair a believable impersonation with something even remotely state of the art in the visual, you end up with something pretty compelling: https://www.tiktok.com/@deeptomcruise https://www.tiktok.com/@deeptomcruise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjI-JaRWG7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjI-JaRWG7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrhRBb-1Ig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrhRBb-1Ig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhUhypV27w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhUhypV27w (Not the greatest visually but funny nonetheless, esp the end)
- slfnflctd 4y agoFunny thing, as a clueless little kid in the 80s whose mind was shaped by popular fiction, I often suspected this kind of thing already existed back then. One of my 'gotcha' questions for adults was, "I've only ever seen him on TV, so how do I know Ronald Reagan is even real?" Over 30 years later, while I would've never anticipated smartphones... I really thought impersonation technology through video & audio editing (not dependent upon look-alike actors) would've been here sooner. Another example of wildly underestimating the complexity of what might seem like a simple problem.
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- squarefoot 4y ago> "I've only ever seen him on TV, so how do I know Ronald Reagan is even real?" This made me wondering how many among the newer generations social media addicts would think along the lines of "I've only ever seen him in person, so how do I know he is real?".
- NavinF 4y agoAm I on HN or /r/oldpeoplefacebook?
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- deejaaymac 4y agomade me LOL
- makeworld 4y agoThis makes no sense. And I've only heard the opposite among Gen Z anyway, amazement at seeing someone from "online" (TikTok/YT/etc) in real life.
- robot9000 4y agoRemove the "as a kid" part and you're now a conspiracy theorist, or one of those people.
- mochomocha 4y agoIn a soon-approaching world where all movies have deep-fake actors, popular music is generated etc. how do you approach the economics of creativity and content generation? Should Tom Cruise heirs receive a perpetual rent 200 years from now when Mission Impossible 57 staring their ancestor is airing? What regulation should be put in place / would be effective in a world where any teen with the latest trending scoial media app on their phone can realistically impersonate a celebrity in real-time for likes?
- nightski 4y agoTechnology is an enabler. Your hypothetical scenario of Tom Cruise's legacy lasting to Mission Impossible 57 is not probable imo. People get bored. Instead we'll probably see a bunch of crap, but on top of that crap it will allow people who never would of had a chance before (no connections, money, etc..) to be discovered who have true talent. It lowers the bar to content creation significantly.
- intrasight 4y agoI think that we will have some immortal actors - but not too many. I don't think Tom Cruise will be one of them. > to be discovered who have true talent. How so?
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- Minor49er 4y agoThe Jennifer Connelly and Henry Cavill demo on that page makes me think of the Scramble Suit from A Scanner Darkly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aS4xhTaIPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aS4xhTaIPc
- AlecSchueler 4y agoIt's quite frightening to imagine what this could do when weaponised against women, used for harassment and the creation of nonconsensual pornography based on people's likeness. I wonder if this is one of the first things we'll start seeing legislation relating to. It's also concerning to imagine the social impact this could have on young boys as well, in a climate where pornography addiction issues become more visible each year.
- welshwelsh 4y agoI'm more concerned about censorship. China justifies their mass internet censorship with pornography bans, which have high public support. Will deepfakes push the US over the edge, bringing the free Internet to an end? I'm not concerned at all about pornography addiction, I don't think that's real. On the contrary, pornography promotes autonomy and independence by making people less dependent on others for sexual stimulation. It's a massive social good, and unrestricted pornography is the sign of a modern society.
- api 4y agoBanning porn in the US is a huge issue in the national conservative camp, at least if you listen to a little bit of their discourse around long term goals. If that camp comes to power expect restrictions in the US which would probably require enormous scale Internet clampdowns.
- AlecSchueler 4y agoBanning pornography is the most extreme view. The question is should there be regulations to ensure consent from those whose likenesses are involved?
- autoexec 4y agoCommercially, I'd agree someone should have compensation for use of their likenesses, but what people choose to draw, imagine, photoshop, or deepfake for non-commercial use is their business and any state that regulates that would be a dystopian nightmare.
- devenson 4y agoReminds me of the Michael Chrichton movie named "Looker" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/
- OscarCunningham 4y agoTV shows won't need to do casting for extras any more, they'll just have the main cast and then one person who plays all the other characters.
- finnh 4y agoThis might be an outlier, but I think the benefit of completely outlawing deepfakes is worth the "but freedom!" harm. I think deepfakes have the power to do much more real, immediate damage to society vs the "threat" of AGI
- bdowling 4y agoAppropriation of name or likeness is already a tort that defendants can be held civilly liable for. Would you also make it a crime?
- finnh 4y agoCivil liability is nothing. We need police resources to find creators, not civil subpoenas of YouTubr upload IPs. Otherwise every election will be swamped with unattributable deepfake videos, which is doubtless the direction we are headed.
- mixedCase 4y agoI don't see them challenging the veracity of media any more than photoshop and video editing already do, specially since ML can be used to automatically detect tampering. So, what's the damage to society you fear?
- finnh 4y agoThe inability to take video evidence as being at all related to truth. Presidential candidates saying "I never said that, that video is a deepfake". If deepfakes are normalized enough, then people will always have sufficient reason to disbelieve actually-true video if they don't want to believe it. If the production and dissemination of deepfakes were criminal, it (a) wouldn't be normalized, and (b) people would think twice about making deepfake videos if punishments were criminal rather than civil slaps-on-the-wrist like libel is. And criminal means actual police resources dedicated to finding creators, whereas a libel suit has only the power of subpoena.
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- btbuildem 4y agoIt's interesting to consider the "full body" deepfakes, but wouldn't the limitation of face deepfakes be even more constraining here? The proportions of limbs' length vs torso, hip / shoulder ratio etc -- it seems like a more effective approach (and something already in commercial use) would be mocap + models -- and that's just for still images. For motion, there's yet another layer of fakery required (and this is something security / identity detection systems tackle nowadays) -- stuff like gait, typical motions or gestures or even poses. To deepfake a Tom Cruise clone, you need to not just look like the actor, but project the same manic energy, and signature movements.
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- superkuh 4y agoNone of the videos on this page really look convincing. In terms of generating static photos existing "photoshops" people have been making for 25 years are far better. I don't see the need to clutch pearls and call for new laws to put people in prison quite yet. But even the failures at temporal coherence have their own aesthetic appeal. Like all of this stuff has been it's very "dreamy" the way the clothing subtly shifts forms. Beyond the coolness I'm glad that individual people are getting access to digital manipulation capabilities that have only before been available to corporations, institutions, and government before.
- staticassertion 4y agoI imagine that phoshopping videos at this quality or higher is going to take way longer and be a much more specialized skill.
- alexose 4y agoMaybe a dumb idea, but I wonder if there's a future in cryptographically signing videos in order to prove provenance. I'm imagining a G7 meeting, for instance, where each participant signs the video before it's released. Future propagandists, in theory, wouldn't be able to alter the video without invalidating the keys. And public figures couldn't just use the "altered video" excuse as a get-out-of-jail free card. It wouldn't solve any of the fundamental problems of trust, of course (namely, the issue of people cargo-culting a specific point of view and only trusting the people that reinforce it). But, it would at least allow people to opt out of sketchy "unsigned" videos showing up on their feeds. I guess it would also allow people to get out of embarrassing situations by refusing to sign. But, maybe that's a good thing? We already have too much "gotchya" stuff that doesn't advance the discourse.
- kyleplum 4y agoAs I mentioned in another comment - there is such an effort underway https://contentauthenticity.org/ https://contentauthenticity.org/ They don't intend to dictate who can authorize media, only provide a verification mechanism that the media was sourced from the place it claims to have been sourced from and is unaltered. I think of it as https but for media content.
- alexose 4y agoWoah! I had no idea something like this would be so far along. It seems like they're on the right track. I think the key is to keep scope creep to a minimum. As soon as someone tries to add DRM, for instance, the whole effort will go up in flames.
- tomrod 4y agoHad this idea a few years ago. Great to see it getting legs.
- Frost1x 4y agoDitto, although I was thinking of a slightly different approach. I didn't think anyone was actively doing anything but I love when I have ideas that seem independent and they magically become 'realized' from my ignorance because someone else did it already.
- wcoenen 4y agoWhat's going on with the scrolling behavior of this page? I'm getting a very annoying "scrolling with inertia" behavior in Chrome for desktop.
- theptip 4y ago> But if you want to describe human activities in a text-to-video prompt (instead of using footage of real people as a guideline), and you’re expecting convincing and photoreal results that last more than 2-3 seconds, the system in question is going to need an extraordinary, almost Akashic knowledge about many more things than Stable Diffusion (or any other existing or planned deepfake system) knows anything about. > These include anatomy, psychology, basic anthropology, probability, gravity, kinematics, inverse kinematics, and physics, to name but a few. Worse, the system will need temporal understanding of such events and concepts... I wonder if unsupervised learning (as could be achieved by just pointing a video camera at people walking around a mall) will become more useful for these sorts of model; one could imagine training an unsupervised first-pass that simply learns what kind of constraints physics, IK, temporality, and so on will provide. Then given that foundation model, one could layer supervised training of labels to get the "script-to-video" translation. Basically it seems to me (not a specialist!) that a lot of the "new complexity" involved in going from static to dynamic, and image to video, doesn't necessarily require supervision in the same way that the existing conceptual mappings for text-to-image do. Combined with the insights from the recent Chinchilla paper[1] from DeepMind (which suggested current models could achieve equal performance if trained with more data and fewer parameters), perhaps we don't actually need multiple OOMs of parameter increases to achieve the leap to video. Again, this is not my field, so the above is just idle speculation. [1]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.15556 https://arxiv.org/abs/2203.15556
- munk-a 4y agoThe road to realistic full-body deepfakes will be through the adult entertainment industry because of course it will. Some academics may begin the discussion but at the end of the day this is one part of AI image generation that has a clear and extremely large profit motive and won't struggle to find funding in any way. I'm pretty sure Slashdot is willing to put up the money for thousands of renders of "Natalie Portman pours Hot Grits over <thing>" alone.
- bsenftner 4y agoNo, it is economically infeasible because any such professional service would be a lawsuit engine.
- munk-a 4y agoYou're assuming that it'll be used on celebrities and not just used to shot a movie once and publish it with stars of various different preferences?
- bsenftner 4y agoAn online service that allows people to insert others into media without consent is a lawsuit engine, pornography absolutely.
- demarq 4y agoGreat article, but showcasing this tech by demonstrating that you can have half naked pictures and videos of real people without their (top half) consent is not going to go down well.
- Nerada 4y agoThe scrolling behavior on this page is horrendous.
- otikik 4y agoWhy would you want to do that, though? Honest question. It’s going to be a long trip throughout the Uncanny Valley where everyone will clearly notice the fakery and then … what? What is the end goal here? Ok, making more Superman movies starring Christopher Reeves, obviously. But then what? To quote someone who deserves to be more in more deep-fakes, “Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.”
- seba_dos1 4y agoI love those text-to-video samples with people screaming into phones.