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Day ahead electricity prices for EU
- Cantinflas 4y agoAFAIK Spain prices are not "real" in the sense that gas prices have been "capped" and electricity users have to pay generation companies that use gas a variable fee to compensate that cap. Real end-user price is likely double
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y agoIn Croatian electricity prices have only gone up 15% this year because of government intervention. The actual costs are something like 10x.
- samuel 4y agoTHIS. The compensation adds 243.57eur/MWh to the final price for Spain. https://www.omie.es/es/market-results/daily/average-final-prices/hourly-price-consumers?scope=daily&date=2022-08-28 https://www.omie.es/es/market-results/daily/average-final-pr...
- seydor 4y agobut note that 380 EUR is still much much cheaper than other countries
- locallost 4y agoWhat I understood is that Spain capped gas prices, thus reducing electricity prices. But yes, it's not real.
- sofixa 4y agoSame in France, electricity prices are capped so hard EDF had to be renationalised due to their massive losses to maintain the cap.
- seydor 4y agoThis is what every country should do. Basically putin is extorting europe through its marginal pricing. BTW spain's prices are more "real" in the sense that they better reflect the cost of generation. It's the EU market's prices that are fake.
- whatever1 4y agoNice! Feel now the benefits of marginal pricing. Where 90% of the electricity producers make profits out of nowhere, just because some inefficient folks had to provide the 10% of missing energy. Like Saudi Aramco and Chevron, they will post record profits, without lifting a finger.
- jontro 4y agoEach country has more than one zone. Also the rate varies hour by hour
- JohnTordur 4y agoNot Germany, they have single price zone which is absolutely insane. Denmark has two and is much smaller.
- biehl 4y agoIt makes sense for Denmark to have two, as each of them is connected to different larger markets and have limited interconnection between each other.
- kzrdude 4y agoWestern half of Denmark is on the european/continental synchronous grid and the eastern half of Denmark is on the nordic synchronous grid.
- the_mitsuhiko 4y agoIt would also make sense for Germany but they don’t want two zones. That also causes issues for connected countries.
- kzrdude 4y agoSweden doesn't want more than one zone either, but was forced into it.
- wongarsu 4y agoIt also makes sense for Germany to have at least two, since North and South are very different in terms of production and consumption but have limited interconnect. Any fix for that is endlessly blocked by NIMBYs who don't feel the cost of their decisions.
- legulere 4y ago
- lorenzotenti 4y agoWhat are the main causes for these differences? And why Italians always manage to be first in the worst ranking?
- skrause 4y agoThe main causes are the gas crisis and the fact that France has shut down around half of its nuclear reactors due to corrosion and cooling problems, so Germany now has to burn even more gas and coal for electricity exports to France.
- halper 4y agoLimits on transmission capacity. If the cables had been bigger, costs would have been more or less the same.
- wewxjfq 4y agoItaly has a high percentage of gas power plants and also relies heavily on imported electricity from France.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago> And why Italians always manage to be first in the worst ranking? in this specific case 3 reason: - Italy relies on natural gas, we had long standing relationships with Libya and Algeria for that, unfortunately France bombed Libya to kill Gheddafi (to claim control of the area mainly) and that destabilized the area [1] - Italy relies on close countries to buy electricity, especially France. Now that they have switched off nuclear plants, electricity from France costs more. - we are in electoral campaign, elections are next month, a good chunk of the right wing political landscape supports (or doesn't strongly oppose) Putin, they hope that by creating an energy crisis in Italy, people will vote for them. Which is probably what's really going to happen, for Putin's delight. [2] [1] WikiLekas has a lot of documents on it, it's also one of the interventions that costed Hillary Clinton the elections. [2] https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/10/italy-election-russia-ukraine-nato-war-putin-salvini-meloni-berlusconi-populist-right/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/10/italy-election-russia-u... EDIT: I understand that on HN people don't like political opinions, but these are not my opinions. added notes.
- bitL 4y agoI've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...
- capableweb 4y ago> why nobody is doing anything about it > I've read somewhere Before wondering why someone, somewhere is not doing something, confirm that the thing is actually happening in the first place.
- neverrroot 4y agoThis. Exactly this. Truth is old school.
- the_mitsuhiko 4y agoI have no clue about Czechia but that’s basically happening in Austria. Austria mainly produces energy from renewables which did not go up in price buy since the price on the exchanges is determined by the most expensive source we still pay exorbitant prices. Producers are making all the money right now.
- tomp 4y agoBy “producers” of course you mean “those producers that invested in sovereign energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, …)” Sounds like good investments are paying off, and bad investments (Germany collaborating with Putin despite Trump’s prescient advice & mockery) are not. Capitalism at it’s finest! Too bad average people are paying the price, but in democracy, that’s literally what they voted for (non-sensical top-down EU bureaucratic green energy mandates, instead of investments into better tech & bottom-up sovereign energy investments).
- the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
- simplecto 4y agoby that measure Swedish datacenters should be oversubscribed
- halper 4y agoThat data centres in Sweden pay almost no electricity tax (5 SEK/MWh if I remember correctly) while consumers pay 36 is not popular with everyone. The map doesn't show that Sweden is divided into four areas. SE1 and SE2, the northernmost two and where some data centres are, have prices that most days are in the single-SEK/MWh range while in SE3 the prices might be tens of times higher. SE4, the southernmost area, has even higher prices due to the fact that (1) power is exported to markets where it is even more expensive and (2) because plants have closed down. The transmission capacity between SE3 and SE4 tends to be maxed out (as evidenced by the fact that prices differ). AWS is in SE3, where the electricity is tens to a hundred times more expensive than for Facebook in SE1.
- moogly 4y agoAnd don't forget that's 36 SEK/MWh minus VAT, so in reality it's 45, and businesses don't pay the VAT of course.
- capableweb 4y agoWould be great if the list on the right was sorted not by country name but by the price instead, together with a number on the left side for "rank".
- baggiponte 4y agoSource?
- luovatek 4y agoAt least the scandinavian prices are from Nordpool. And they are only 24h averages while the real price of course varies every hour. I merely checked the price for Finland and it was correct.
- Lex-2008 4y agoas sibling comment says, some numbers match those shown on https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/en/maps/#/nordic https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/en/maps/#/nordic
- biehl 4y agoDenmark is going to have some pretty cheap hours around 13:00, so charging an electric car is not going to be bad tomorrow.
- fest 4y agoAt the current electricity prices, break even point for household PV installations even in coldish climate (Latvia, Eastern Europe) is on the order of 3-4 years without subsidies. Granted, it does not solve the problem that the energy I'll spend in the fall/winter has to come from somewhere but financially it is at the very least closer to being balanced out. Also, this is in a country, where the net metering system is favorable to households (one can spend the full amount that has been fed to grid).
- jacquesm 4y agoBuying panels, inverters, heatpumps and booking installer times are significant bottle necks at the moment for further household PV installation.
- epolanski 4y agoAlso: legislation and beaurocracy.
- fest 4y agoNot in Latvia- it's an online application, you get a decision (=does the grid have generation capacity in your location), and then submit an installation report signed by electrician. Getting building permits for installations was waived this year (before that it varied by city).
- fest 4y agoAt least here, the heatpump and installer availability seems to be the biggest bottlenecks. I'm not looking forward to it, but I may end up having to install (ground source) heat pump myself (assuming it will be delivered this season at all- quote delivery date was June).
- thatfrenchguy 4y agoOr, at night also? Solar is all fun and games until the sun goes down and your grid needs to not collapse.
- neverrroot 4y agoGreen without a proper plan? Germany/Europe will be the green poster children on how not to do it. Guess who will damage the environment more in the end.
- MomoXenosaga 4y agoNo matter what magic plan anyone comes up with it would take years to implement. Nuclear, more insulation, hydrogen, new gas fields. It's almost winter already.
- neverrroot 4y agoExactly, because it was all done without a proper plan. And they have been warned multiple times, laughter and sarcasm is unfortunately all they had as a reply. Now this.
- Tarsul 4y agothe magic plan should be to consume less and less and less. If we would consume 20% less, which should be absolutely doable, these problems would alleviate itself quite fast (well, we still should invest as much as we can in renewables). However, for that to happen we would need to have governments that are not afraid and act.
- neverrroot 4y agoI have doubts.
- sofixa 4y ago> If we would consume 20% less, which should be absolutely doable, these problems would alleviate itself quite fast (well, we still should invest as much as we can in renewables). However, for that to happen we would need to have governments that are not afraid and act. Act how exactly? How do you propose on forcing everyone, citizens and enterprises, to consume less energy? Why would they want to do that? Transition to less energy intensive alternatives sure (like LEDs), but that's not easy, will require massive investments and is by the way already in progress.
- sprak 4y agoSweden has four zones and according to [1] tomorrow's price will be from north to south: Zone 1: 14,25 cents/kWh Zone 2: 14,25 cents/kWh Zone 3: 108,64 cents/kWh Zone 4: 201,63 cents/kWh 1 Swedish krona is 0,094 USD. So between 1,3 and 20 American cents per kWh. Most people live in Zone 3 followed by Zone 4. Facebook's datacenter is in Zone 1. [1]: https://elen.nu https://elen.nu
- tmikaeld 4y agoThe disturbing thing is that Zone 4 has to pay export prices, when it would be fairer to pay pre-export prices. It's already starting to bankrupt businesses in Zone 4, that are calling for immediate changes [0]. [0] https://www.di.se/live/efter-elprissmockan-skanska-foretag-varnar-for-konkurser/ https://www.di.se/live/efter-elprissmockan-skanska-foretag-v...
- anticristi 4y agoHello from zone 4. Indeed, people here are pretty pissed about this. Basically, if an exporting transmission line got damaged, zone 4 prices would drop instantly.
- tmikaeld 4y agoI'm also in Zone 4, prepare to be even more pissed then, the state want to double the export capacity [0]. [0] https://www.sydsvenskan.se/2022-08-18/regeringen-kan-bana-vag-for-dubblad-elexport-till-tyskland https://www.sydsvenskan.se/2022-08-18/regeringen-kan-bana-va... The electricity companies and the socialist state earn billions [1] (2021), they have no incentives to change how it currently works. [1] https://www.tn.se/hallbarhet/kritiken-staten-tjanar-miljarder-pa-elkrisen/ https://www.tn.se/hallbarhet/kritiken-staten-tjanar-miljarde...
- thepasswordis 4y agoTo put this into more human terms: a tesla model Y has a 75kwh battery. So this means to charge it, at home, would cost between $0.75, $2.25, and $15. A normal air conditioner uses about 3.5kw. So if it runs for 6 hours a day, so 21kwh/day. $0.21/day, $0.63/day, and $4.2/day.
- admissionsguy 4y agoMy move to Sweden continues to pay unexpected dividends. And what the map shows is I suppose based on the average for the whole country - it's several times cheaper in the north (the "real" Sweden with auroras and stuff) than in the south. Let's be real though, the society will fall apart before energy costs become a big problem for people working in tech.
- JohnJamesRambo 4y agoWhere did you live before? How hard was it to move there?
- admissionsguy 4y agoPoland. As an EU citizen working online, it was as easy as buying a plane ticket, renting an AirBNB, registering a company, and waiting over a year until I got connected to the healthcare / social security system and such.
- JohnJamesRambo 4y agoWow that is really neat. Is there ever a problem with everyone wanting to move to all the good places haha? I wonder if they will get really expensive to live in like California and New York. Not that I’m saying CA and NY are the “good” places of USA but many perceive it that way.
- admissionsguy 4y agoThe house price inflation has been staggering across Sweden, but not so much in the rural north where I live. I don't think many people will ever want to move here, but for those with more mainstream idea of what a "good place" is, yeah, it's getting ever harder.
- badpun 4y agoLanguage barriers prevent that to a large degree. People mostly move for better jobs, often only temporarily (for a couple of years), and largely only if their current area is econmically depressed.
- thomond 4y agoThey have an incomplete dataset, I wonder why PT and IE is missing?
- thdespou 4y agoLol can't see Ireland
- scottmcdot 4y agoFrom the perspective of a retail electricity customer, would knowing this help reduce your bill?
- WJW 4y agoOnly if it makes you decide to use less electricity.
- liversage 4y agoIn Denmark electric power consumption of homes have decreased by 10% in 2022. Apps that provide the variable hourly rate today and tomorrow are increasingly popular, and they are used to plan the best time to perform tasks that require electricity. https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/penge/danskernes-stroemforbrug-er-faldet-med-naesten-ti-procent-er-der-hoeje-elpriser-ved https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/penge/danskernes-stroemforbrug-er-...
- pveierland 4y agoCurrent spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has an excellent visualization showing breakdowns of each electricity zone, with imports/export to each neighbor zone etc: https://app.electricitymaps.com/ https://app.electricitymaps.com/
- pojzon 4y agoIve tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.
- pornel 4y agoBacklash is probably because such argument can sound like “better give up on EVs and go back to ICE” rather than “let’s invest more in the energy infrastructure”. If you call people fanatics, they won’t believe you’re making a good faith argument.
- kitbrennan 4y agoNeither investment in EVs and repairing transmission issues live in isolation and both can be invested in at the same time. Solving one issue might also help solve the other (e.g. charging EVs can occur at non-peak times which balances energy demands, and in future EVs could be used as batteries to discharge into the grid during peak times).
- vorpalhex 4y agoCalifornia has to shut down their grid occasionally just because it's in such poor repair that wildfires are a risk. I can't imagine how they are going to handle everyone getting EVs.
- bjourne 4y agoRemember that, while prices have soared, electricity generation has not become more expensive. The "electricity crisis" is a crisis for European consumers but a massive windfall for producers. This is a market failure - not an electricity failure.
- sph 4y agoCan anybody explain why that is? Why a country that generates 99+% of its own electricity like UK is seeing price increases? Everybody blames the war, but AFAIK UK imports 1% of its gas from Russia, and its electricity is generated locally, so why are prices increasing? I would expect grain and wheat to increase 500%, not power.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- im3w1l 4y agoElectricity is very inelastic, which means that a tiny change in supply can massively affect the price. Only when it gets super expensive do people to start cutting down on their consumption, and supply and demand come into balance.
- locallost 4y agoIt's because not all electricity costs the same to produce, but the price is the same, determined by the most expensive producer. There is a shortage of electricity because France is generating a lot less than normal and this is made up by other countries. I would guess the UK is impacted by higher demand as well, thus the more expensive producers are delivering jacking up the prices for everyone.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago> determined by the most expensive producer That's wrong. The price is determined by demand and supply, which in turn is determined by what prices producers are willing to sell at and consumers are willing to buy at, plus other traders in the market.
- tomp 4y agoTo put this into context: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas I call this “the Greta curve”.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 4y agoYou do you, but it has little to do with her? Specifically, Greta Thunberg had nothing to do with invading Ukraine or, if we want to ignore the most obvious cause, the decision to phase out nuclear power.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y agoWhat your funny name for France, where we pay as much (if not more) than Germany for our electricity since the start of the year? More than half the country's nuclear power capacity has been shut down, mostly due to safety concerns https://nuclear-monitor.fr/#/mix https://nuclear-monitor.fr/#/mix.
- AshamedCaptain 4y agoWho is paying more for electricity in France? To my knowledge, the majority of French residential subscribe to the state-fixed "Tarif bleu", which hasn't increased price at all since February, and is still well below the German average. It is, in fact, for added ridiculousness, well below the retail prices of most of the countries we import energy from.
- gniv 4y ago> Who is paying more for electricity in France? EDF is. Which will end up as deficits in France's budget.
- roflyear 4y agoAm I missing something, or does the price still not seem that high in USD? I'm used to paying like $.15 per kWh which is half roughly of the prices in Europe? It's big but... Idk
- 4y ago
- ed25519FUUU 4y agoAt $0.40/kWh Germany is now paying the same or slightly less than a PG&E TOU customer. I didn’t realize their electricity was so much cheaper than ours to start with.
- bushbaba 4y agoCalifornia is near the same cost as hawaii. The rates are absurd. With the rate payer bailing out their past dividends and lack of investment.
- mqus 4y agoI'm pretty sure this price is before taxes (and maybe more payments) and german taxes are pretty heavy, ca. 30% of the consumer price is taxes and stuff, ~25% go to the network operator and only ~45% are power generation[1](~the prices in the visualization). So you have to roughly double that to get consumer €/kWh (ofc daily prices are a bit different than a contract over a whole year). [1, german sadly] https://strom-report.de/strompreise/strompreis-zusammensetzung/ https://strom-report.de/strompreise/strompreis-zusammensetzu...
- speedgoose 4y agoNorth of Norway has almost free electricity while the south is quite expensive. The only link between the two regions are through Sweden for now. A new power line will connect the two regions in Norway eventually. So the north will pay more and the south the same since everything will be absorbed by other European countries. The electricity companies in the south also follow well the business strategy of privatising the benefits and socialising the losses. The water level in the lakes in the south are too low especially considering the difficult winter to come, yet they sometimes empty them to export to Scotland to make money now. It’s a bit annoying but at least I get push notifications when the price is very high or very low.
- lawn 4y agoAnd Sweden has the same problem with energy transfers, where it's very cheap in the north and very expensive in the south.
- Tade0 4y agoElectricity map gives a more detailed view on the situation, including imports/exports: https://electricitymaps.com/ https://electricitymaps.com/ Poland has an interesting story behind the price: the government passed legislation which switched from net-metering to net-billing with the start of April, so people rushed to build as many home PV installations as possible to get grandfathered into the previous scheme. A whopping 4-5GW estimated was added to the grid in this period, almost doubling the installed capacity, creating a unique mix of coal and solar in the summer. Now during the day it's what's keeping prices below €250/MWh because even with net-metering the price of this electricity is closer to €175/MWh. In 2019 that would have been horribly expensive, but it's safe to say those times are gone for good.
- KptMarchewa 4y agoAlso, we barely use gas - price is mostly driven by coal.
- anonporridge 4y agoI imagine Poland was much more paranoid than Germany about becoming overly dependent on Russian gas. Of course, now Germany is scrambling to turn coal plants back online.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- epolanski 4y agoPoland simply produced most electricity with coal rather than gas for decades, even during communism. This is not related to Russia.
- sebazzz 4y agoWhich also increased in price.
- locallost 4y agoThis is nothing. If you want to panic, check the futures markets for the next 2 quarters, especially France. So I think short term we are pretty screwed. But I think if you can produce electricity at 1/10 or even 1/20 of the price, wouldn't you be adding new capacity now? The only fast option are renewables, so my wild guess is that there will be so much new capacity added in the next years, the bottleneck will not be production, but skilled labor to install it. That's the way a real market economy should react.
- Toutouxc 4y agoThe thing about "short term screwed" is that in some countries the "screwed" is actually "people having to pay more than 100 % of their income for electricity". Theoretically, long term, this could all work out nicely and steer more people and governments towards renewables and decentralized generation, but the short term consequences are starting to look brutal.
- locallost 4y agoNo, we agree here. I'm not trying to minimize the impact. Factories will shut down, leading to job loses, shortages which will again cause inflation etc. But we can't change that anymore. What we can do is build more capacity.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoWe can also change policy to make sure we don't get into this kind of situation again. We, as a world, don't seem to want to do that.
- sofixa 4y ago> Factories will shut down, leading to job loses, shortages which will again cause inflation etc Not necessarily. The same thing (forced closures of factories) was handled gracefully without job losses during the pandemic through various unemployment schemes. I see no reason why the same can't happen again.
- leke 4y agoMy town's investment in renewables is really paying off.
- bushbaba 4y agoWonder why the EU hasn’t stepped in with rationing and price controls. This is price gouging to the detriment of its citizens.
- nickpp 4y agoRationing and price controls is how you end up with shortages. A functioning market will provide the motivation to search, find and finance solutions instead.
- bushbaba 4y agoThe functioning market will decimate industry and impact the poor. It’s a long term disaster. This is something where China has done a good job. The EU should plan who gets the energy available and how much to charge. Otherwise the EU will be dealt a blow to industry so large it might not ever recover.
- nickpp 4y agoPlanned economies have been historically unable to even feed their citizens. Let's hope EU won't make that mistake.
- sofixa 4y agoSome countries have, e.g. France.
- boshomi 4y agodetailed information: Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy Systems ISE: https://energy-charts.info/index.html?l=en&c=DE https://energy-charts.info/index.html?l=en&c=DE and European Energy Exchange AG: https://www.eex.com/en/ https://www.eex.com/en/
- andrepd 4y agoNitpick: the iberian market is portrayed as "Spain" when it should be "Spain + Portugal".
- dang 4y agoRelated ongoing thread: UK energy bills are soaring to record highs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32617621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32617621 - Aug 2022 (164 comments)
- vadym909 4y agoAre these prices consumers pay? Or does the gov absorb it? Way to cool off the ev excitement
- arbuge 4y agoIt varies by country. For example, in Malta the government is currently absorbing it: https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/greens-want-fuel-subsidy-slashed-rather-university-funding.976961 https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/greens-want-fuel-subs... "Electricity tariffs and fuel prices have remained frozen in Malta despite skyrocketing international prices, with the government spending hundreds of million to cover the difference and keep local prices stable. Times of Malta reported on Friday that maintaining the subsidy in place next year is likely to cost taxpayers €400 million." OTOH in the UK: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/26/uk-energy-bills-to-rise-by-80percent-in-october-as-regulator-announces-hike.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/26/uk-energy-bills-to-rise-by-8...
- kkfx 4y agoConsider a thing: prices are MEANINGLESS, really. At a certain point people will revolt, simply. The revolt might be ride or not but the actual profiteers (or some puppets, who appear adversaries to many people's eyes but that's just theater, like the actual far-right movements) but it will happen. At that point PP will simply run depending on their technical capacity, no one will talk about price or consumption in different terms. That's an old classic we already see at the start of '900 where the level of rapacious businesses and corruption reach a break point. To save themselves in skin the failed profiteers choose to push nazi-fascism with success, apparently those dictatorship was a new and different beast but in reality they just makes the public actions needed to keep a country run, leaving profit to the private, for some time. The profit part makes the game last little time, a war was needed (see Ucraine and Taiwan next), and after the war a new start. It's a cycle who can last until or all the world became capitalist in the same way and so there is nothing left to steal or we simply have depleted enough resources to be unable to survive as a modern civilization or for some miracles people decide that enough is enough REALLY and act positively instead of destructively, something almost never happened reading the history.
- bob1029 4y agoI'm starting to have flashbacks to Griddy and the $9,000/MWh wholesale pricing I had to dance around in Feb 2021. The novelty of accounting for small appliance usage in dollars per hour wore off pretty quickly for me. I was able to get my sustained electricity consumption under ~800w (including central furnace blower) after some extreme compromises. Only had to pay about a thousand dollars for that incident. I know of people on Griddy who had 5 figure bills that month. In retrospect, I think variable rates are the ultimate solution to these problems. I am not usually very price sensitive, but $9/KWh is a monster rate if you aren't paying attention. I was forced to adjust my behavior to accommodate the available supply. For better or worse, we still can't store electricity at scale in most markets, so forcing the consumer behavior may be the next best option.
- robmsmt 4y agoCan you elaborate on what you reduced and what was remaining for the 800w? I am curious
- seydor 4y agothe current crisis, for most european countries, is totally due to the failure of the EU energy market. The electiricy prices are set by the highest generator, which currently is natural gas. So , eventhough southern countries use less than 20-15% gas, their prices soar because they are determined by gas. Spain and portugal are the only countries which managed to get an exception to offset this mechanism months ago, by effectively capping the gas prices and not allowing it to go bonkers. The rest of the EU should explain itself to its citizens. These levels of prices do not represent the cost of energy but the stupid continuation of a supposedly free market in time of war. https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/europes-power-markets-are-in-crisis-but-this-is-our-chance-to-reform-them-for-a-green-future/2-1-1211907?zephr_sso_ott=G97NWm https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/europes-power...
- 323 4y agoIf that were true the price difference would be quickly arbitraged away by energy traders. They would buy this "cheap" energy you speak of and sell it at the "inflated" market price, thus converging them to the same price. And yes, they would find a way to bypass the "mandatory fake price". > Listening to European Electricity Traders Is Very, Very Scary. Keeping the lights on in Europe this winter may prove more difficult than governments are currently admitting. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-08-26/european-energy-crisis-listening-to-electricity-traders-is-very-very-scary https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-08-26/europe...
- seydor 4y agoIt's not possible, everyone gets the same price. https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/europes-power-markets-are-in-crisis-but-this-is-our-chance-to-reform-them-for-a-green-future/2-1-1211907?zephr_sso_ott=G97NWm https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/europes-power...
- 323 4y agoAccording to this theory the price of energy should be the same in all of Europe, since it's the same mandated price. But it's not according to article graph.
- hericium 4y agoWould be great if prices included transfer or would there be an option to see both. In some states the price of energy can be lower than the price of its transfer.
- PeterisP 4y agoThe transfer between regions isn't expensive compared to these prices, but they are capacity limited. What is relatively expensive may be the "retail delivery" to small-scale consumers, but that is excluded here as that price is not dependent on these daily fluctuations of generation; this is about the wholesale markets and the high-voltage networks.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- fontanka16 4y agoSweden is divided in four areas with huge price differences between them (20x) , due to bottle necks in the network and very few electrical plants in the south of Sweden where most people live. https://www.elbruk.se/ https://www.elbruk.se/
- pelasaco 4y agoNo prices for Portugal? Why in Spain is the electricity so cheap?
- tradertef 4y agoOff topic: How did Apple allow their app in the App Store? It can easily be a website (no phone specific frameworks are used). There was a post that explained the difficulty they had for Apple to approve their application (music festivals).
- djhaskin987 4y agoCurrent price in Utah, USA is $106.30 per megawatt hour, easily four times less than many of the prices I'm seeing in the EU. About 14% of our electricity comes from renewables[1], I'm pretty sure the rest is coal. My wife's cousin works in a coal mine that's owned by one of the power plants in the state. It's fun to hear stories from him seeing dinosaur tracks and other fossils down in the coal mines where he works. 1: https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.php%3Fsid%3DUT&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiFqtj2uuj5AhUrKkQIHWNiDsEQFXoECAMQAg&usg=AOvVaw1H-35dc__NIzJB3nRTOeQQ https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.eia.gov/state/analy...
- computing 4y agoIn SF I pay around 45cents per kwh. These rates in Europe don't seem that absurd to me as a result.