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OpenAI API pricing update FAQ
- minimaxir 4y agoThis is actually a big deal since this includes the davinci model everyone uses and was the biggest obstacle to cost-affordable deployment of GPT-3. The exemption for finetuned models is interesting: since they were 2x the price of the old prices, they're now 4x-6x more expensive than the base models. I bet that's how OpenAI really makes their money with enterprise.
- dr_dshiv 4y agoAny good use cases for fine tuned models? I’ve been wanting to put in all my previous academic works and references and see how that changes things. Otherwise, I’ve been using a model finetuned on the complete works of Plato and I have really been enjoying the new dialogues.
- minimaxir 4y agoI made a blog post just last week about finetuned GPT-3, albeit only on the lower end and not finetuning davinci: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32471208 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32471208 I suspect some of the more custom "be a better writer" services use a finetuned davinci.
- teaearlgraycold 4y agoCopyAI uses fine tuning extensively
- hda2 4y agoAny GPT-3-level fully-opensource models yet?
- minimaxir 4y agoBLOOM and OPT are both GPT-3 sized models that are open source and similarily sized (175B parameters) but a) text generation is not as good as GPT-3 for whatever reason and b) getting them to run in a cost-effective manner is not easy and with this new price decrease, it may be more economical to use GPT-3 for deployment despite that.
- edgyquant 4y agoIs this due to entirely to economies of scale?
- tehsauce 4y agoThe reason the similarly sized open source models aren’t as good is because gpt-3 has had a 2 year head start of additional development and improvement. The gpt-3 that is available today is Much better than what was initially produced in 2020.
- arbol 4y agoAny chance of this making GitHub copilot cheaper?
- karamanolev 4y agoDoes Copilot use GPT-3 directly? I haven't found resources on this, but sounds doubtful?
- simonw 4y agoIt uses Codex, which is a descendant of GPT-3: https://openai.com/blog/openai-codex/ https://openai.com/blog/openai-codex/
- learndeeply 4y agoOut of curiosity, is $10/month prohibitively expensive for you or other developers? Copilot is free for open source developers and students.
- Oranguru 4y agoIt is not prohibitively expensive for me but it is a bit more than I would like to pay for such a tool. I hope that prices come down over time. Also, it is free for open source project developers and students but not for teachers and researchers, that is a little bit surprising to me.
- AJRF 4y ago> We have been looking forward to reducing pricing for a long time. Our teams have made incredible progress in making our models more efficient to run, which has reduced the cost it takes to serve them, and we are now passing these savings along to our customers. Nothing to do with Stable Diffusion then, no?
- JimmyAustin 4y agoGiven that Dall-E 2's pricing hasn't changed, probably not.
- aaroninsf 4y agoNow that StableDiffusion is released, I expect that to change, unless there is a (certainly ultimately doomed) attempt to Hold the Line.
- cma 4y agoCould be the GPU price crash as well (even if they use Google's TPUs, TPU demand would presumably go down in a GPU price crash).
- tomComb 4y agoMicrosoft bought control of OpenAI so I believe this would all be running on Azure (so would not be using Google TPU's).
- tvhahn 4y agoWhy bother use a GPT-3 model when you can use the free BLOOM model? Large "foundation" models will become a commodity -- a race to the bottom.
- grej 4y agoI have used BLOOM a little, and I struggle to get it to produce the same kind of output as GPT-3. Anyone have tips there? It often seems to not keep the right context of the previously generated text.
- intrasight 4y agoHonest question: What does GPT-3 add to my tookbox as a developer?
- powerhour 4y agoI wonder if anyone has successfully used it to create library documentation. Obviously you'd have to tweak whatever output you get but can GPT-3 provide a substantial starting point?
- guipsp 4y agoOne thing to note (without commenting if this applies in this case or not) is that sometimes a bad starting point is worse than no starting point
- ianbutler 4y agoI've used it in a previous tool to generate documentation from code snippets, it works out pretty well.
- moffkalast 4y agoYes, there are several VScode plugins for it. Not sure if they use GPT-3 specifically or one of the slightly smaller versions though.
- simonw 4y agoWe're still figuring that out. It's a really fascinating piece of tech, and has all kinds of non-obvious applications. I wrote about using it to explain code (and mathematical formulas and suchlike) a few weeks ago: https://simonwillison.net/2022/Jul/9/gpt-3-explain-code/ https://simonwillison.net/2022/Jul/9/gpt-3-explain-code/ I've been experimenting with using it to build a human-language-to-SQL tool, so that people can ask questions of their data "what country had the highest GDP in 2019" and it will turn them into the correct SQL query, given a table schema. I'm still iterating on this but it's shown some very promising initial results. I use it a lot when I need to get something small working in a language that I don't have day-to-day familiarity with. "Write a bash script that loops through every MOV file in this folder and extracts the audio as MP3" is a good example of that kind of prompt. Riley Goodside on Twitter posts weird and interesting new things you can do with GPT-3 on a daily basis: https://twitter.com/goodside/ https://twitter.com/goodside/ - his instructional template trick was on HN the other day, it's really clever: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32532875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32532875
- rvz 4y agoOr how about opening everything up and releasing all the models as open source? Since even with these price decreases, lots of competitors are out there with more parameters and are open source, and are already matched or just as good as GPT-3 and are generally running OpenAI's pricing to the ground. Might as well open everything up since you can't compete with free anyway.
- colejohnson66 4y agoThe free alternatives to OpenAI are not as good as OpenAI. For example, Craiyon (formally DALL-E Mini), is good, but it's nothing compared to the real DALL-E.
- simonw 4y agoThat's true for Craiyon, but Stable Diffusion came out today and looks like it may be able to beat DALL-E in terms of quality some of the time: https://github.com/huggingface/diffusers/releases/tag/v0.2.3 https://github.com/huggingface/diffusers/releases/tag/v0.2.3
- rvz 4y ago> For example, Craiyon (formally DALL-E Mini), is good, but it's nothing compared to the real DALL-E. Yet Stable Diffusion is already getting open sourced and is just as good, if not better than what I am seeing with DALL-E 2.
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y agoThe so-called "open" in their name is an oxymoron. The whole thing is a trap. We need to work on our own, possibly publicly founded but really open solutions rather than depend on proprietary ones.
- naillo 4y agoWe really gotta come up with another thing to repeat as the go-to diss than this. I'm all for putting pressure on them to release weights etc but they are a lot more open than e.g. google or meta, and the whole "ClosedAI" is so over-repeated at this point.
- TigeriusKirk 4y agoThey brought it on themselves. They chose the name OpenAI. It was a terrible choice on their part, and the repeated criticism is a direct result of that choice.
- person3 4y agoI definitely agree, "open" in the name is pretty annoying and wrong. I'm a bit torn though - I tend to think GPT-3 is approaching a level where ML is becoming dangerous. Spam bots + GPT-3 is not my idea of a fun time. So the restrictions they put on usage do seem important. Regardless of that moral question, I don't think a fully open model on the level of GPT-3 is even possible. Given the required cost to train and the expertise involved, big tech will always be a few years ahead. And it's unlikely they would give it away with how much they invest in creating it. Unless capitalism suddenly ends, I don't see any of the major tech companies parting with state of the art ML.
- naniwaduni 4y agoIt's not an oxymoron, it's just a lie.
- rvz 4y agoIt is a known scam executed by the VCs. Thankfully we have free alternatives to GPT-3 (BLOOM [0]) and DALL-E 2 (Stable Diffusion [1]) [0] https://huggingface.co/bigscience/bloom https://huggingface.co/bigscience/bloom [1] https://github.com/huggingface/diffusers/releases/tag/v0.2.3 https://github.com/huggingface/diffusers/releases/tag/v0.2.3
- vanadium1st 4y agoWhy is it still closed for users in Ukraine? Are there many other countries excluded, or are we the only unlucky ones?
- mccorrinall 4y agoMicrosoft does microsoft things.
- jacobr1 4y agoI'm not sure about OpenAI's internal policies, but I've worked for several SaaS companies that complied with Export Administration Regulations (EAR) to limit access to "Embargoed and Sanctioned Countries" which has meant CRIMEA - REGION OF UKRAINE, CUBA, IRAN, NORTH KOREA, and SYRIA. ITAR (defense related) and OFAC (finance related) both have further restrictions. For us, it was easier to block all of Ukraine rather than limit to access to Crimea in particular.
- jon_adler 4y agoTrade compliance requirements may require embargoing occupied Ukrainian territories however it isn’t necessarily possible to distinguish between occupied and unoccupied regions. Export controls might be applied based on geoIP with granularity at the country level. Unfortunately the safest position from a compliance perspective is to block the entire country than risk getting it wrong.
- dbrueck 4y agoIs it just me, or are phrases like "3x cheaper" hard for other people to grok too? For some reason they always require me to pause and try to sort it out. Like, is the price being reduced by 66% or 75% or something else? What would "1x cheaper" mean?
- papandada 4y agoFrom my copy editing days, it's drilled into me to never write "n times less" -- I get that it means "1/n" and that's how I'd rewrite it, but yes, it's notoriously confusing, or at least imprecise.
- redox99 4y agoI process "3x cheaper" as "for the same money, I can get 3x the original amount". Which would be 33% the original price.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- noja 4y agoThe problem is the word "cheaper". For the opposite word, "expensive", it all depends on the word before it: "as expensive" or "more expensive". "100 widgets cost $100. Unit price is $1." They are now twice _as_ expensive -> they now cost $200. Unit price is now $2. "100 widgets cost $100. Unit price is $1." They are now two times _more_ expensive -> they now cost $300. Unit price is now $3. But How do you do this with the word "cheap"? Does "cheaper" clearly mean "3x as cheap" or "3x more cheap" (which even sounds a bit wrong)? I guess it means "more cheap" means "cheaper". Better to avoid the problem and say "They are now two times the cost, or half the cost". Which is much clearer.
- miohtama 4y agoIs this free markets in action, subvention by VC money or both?
- itake 4y agoMy guess is lower pricing makes the product more accessible to more people (and business models).
- thorum 4y agoI'm sure those are factors, but it's mainly (1) GPU prices have dropped significantly, and (2) a lot of progress is happening in optimizing large language models to be more efficient while maintaining performance.
- aabhay 4y agoIt's an indication that OpenAI picked the wrong place to monetize. Picks and shovels are rapidly falling to zero margin.
- imdsm 4y agoGreat to see. GPT-3 has been very useful to me, though looking forward to whatever the next version is.
- dane-pgp 4y agoIs this because GPT-4 is about to be released and they want to charge full price for that?
- whoisburbansky 4y agoWhy wouldn’t they just charge more for the better, improved GPT-4?
- layer8 4y agoMaybe demand has slowed and they want to keep it up.
- teaearlgraycold 4y agoGPT-J was about the same cost to self-host as GPT-3 (ignoring maintenance costs). They’re getting ahead of competitors IMO.
- cbm-vic-20 4y agoI lack imagination. What is GPT-3 (and generative text models in general) useful for, other than toys? It can write essays, can we expect it to replace writers for newspapers and magazines? Can it write coherent technical documentation? Replace speechwriters? Edit: looks like the comment thread below is similar https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32554955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32554955
- renewiltord 4y agoMy friend used it to "explain like I'm 5" a medical report he had. I sent that to my dad (a surgeon in that specialty) and he said it was all accurate. I thought that was interesting. But I think the principal use for me is CoPilot.
- machineleaning 4y agoMarketing copy - https://www.copy.ai/ https://www.copy.ai/ Coding help - https://github.com/features/copilot https://github.com/features/copilot
- simonw 4y agoI wrote a few notes in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32554955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32554955 Here's one that I find personally really interesting: Imagine you have a disability, and the government agencies responsible for helping you have denied your claim. You need to write them a letter. You don't have much (if any) experience writing letters to government agencies, so you're finding that task challenging. GPT-3 can write that letter for you, and it will de a really good job of it. Of course, you need access to GPT-3 and you need to learn how to drive it with prompts, so this isn't necessarily an easy thing. But I think it helps lean in the direction of the kind of benefits people can get from this class of technology outside of just playing with the AI.
- aabhay 4y agoHow is this different or more useful than providing a template with madlibs-style fill in the blanks?
- londons_explore 4y agoI'm really surprised they don't charge a very high price with a generous free tier, and then have an army of salespeople who will offer you whatever discount is necessary to make your business model work. If you want to use GPT-3 to build an AI-lawyer, it'll be very expensive... but to build a tool for customer support for walmart will be cheap, etc.
- gkoberger 4y agoDo they need an army of salespeople, or just a finely tuned GPT-3 bot?
- choppaface 4y agoThe OpenAI CEO Sama is primarily an investor, not an operator, so the model is tuned towards giving small companies an opportunity versus enticing enterprise customers. Sama want somebody to figure out how to run & productive his business versus actual customers. In particular because of efforts like Stable Diffusion—- it’s going to be a lot easier for enterprise to build off tech that’s actually Open.
- thdxr 4y agomaking things cheap encourages experimentation and paradoxically increases total spend
- londons_explore 4y agohence the generous free tier. You want it to be big enough for a team of developers to do all the experimentation and development work, and also to launch a product to a small audience. As soon as your product is a success, you run out of free tier, and you will have to negotiate a price with the sales team. If I were OpenAI, then while I had a market leading product, the price would be 'I want half the profit margin of whatever you're using it for'.
- webmaven 4y ago> If I were OpenAI, then while I had a market leading product, the price would be 'I want half the profit margin of whatever you're using it for'. This degenerates to Oracle's "how much is your data worth to you" pricing model.
- keepquestioning 4y agoWhat are people actually using GPT-3 for?
- breck 4y ago1. Generating text content for websites and blogs 2. Translating documents from one language to another 3. Writing e-mails, letters, and other forms of correspondence 4. Crafting resumes and cover letters 5. Writing marketing materials, such as brochures and flyers 6. Responding to comments on HN. (I added the last one)
- seibelj 4y agoIs any of that actually going to be a massive industry-defining feature? Marketing blogs are already negative value to me, relying on AI to write something as important as my resume is a non-starter, and marketing emails already go straight to the trash. I'm very impressed with the AI image generation, but again, it replaces... stock art for blog posts? If I was a creative writer then I think the AI could help me with plot outlines or get over writing blocks. But otherwise I'm not grasping why this is going to automate some huge number of jobs.
- insightcheck 4y ago> "If I was a creative writer then I think the AI could help me with plot outlines or get over writing blocks. But otherwise I'm not grasping why this is going to automate some huge number of jobs." Writing definitely looks like the key use case. The New Yorker used GPT-3 to write the concluding sentence for one of their articles [0], and I believe The Economist did the same (but for a slightly greater length; though I couldn't find the source just now). It's actually a bit hard to come up with a good conclusion, so this could save some effort and trouble. Separately, GPT-3 can also likely be used for articles about sports, especially if the purpose is to track changes on a scoreboard and present the changes with an article written in prose, versus displayed in a table. It's quite fair that marketing blogs may not be interesting to many readers, but they can be useful for SEO/boosting the search engine rankings of a website. So, a cash-strapped early or small company could save money from freelance copywriting to GPT-3 if they're not looking for anything fancy, and a lot of people work as freelance copywriters. I agree that this may not displace anyone in the high-end/high quality segment of copywriting, but it could reduce demand for content farms in the future (i.e. any application where low-quality copywriting written on a short notice is in-demand). [0] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/10/14/can-a-machine-learn-to-write-for-the-new-yorker https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/10/14/can-a-machine-...
- mad_ned 4y agoMore Marshmallows!
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y agoJust in time for the 2022 Midterms!
- jon_adler 4y agoAre any plagiarism detectors capable of recognising generated content? I’m not even sure how they might ever go about it?
- unixhero 4y agoThe got their hands on the latest Nvidia GTX cards, aha I see. I hear new cards are on their way.
- hcks 4y agoI really wonder about the economics and business models of large models APIs, mainly because of: * large running costs due to the expensiveness of the inference * low barriers to entry: the tech behind Dalle appeared 1.5 years ago if I recall right and there are already a few competitors (Midjourney, Imagen, Stable Diffusion) * low value at the present time of the raw APIs
- RobotToaster 4y agoIt still bugs me that a closed source company calls it's product "Open"AI.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Mimmy 4y agoSame. What they're doing is cool but the name is sacrilegious.
- a-dub 4y agoit's mostly just kinda like this https://youtu.be/5KMzpZjhUiQ https://youtu.be/5KMzpZjhUiQ
- lukev 4y agoThis makes me sad. I hoped to see less use of language models in the wild; looks like we're heading the other direction. I was recently able to articulate to myself why I dislike language models like GPT-3 so much. Language is fundamentally about communication. I have a mental state, and language lets me share that some of that mental state with another human being. It's quite remarkable, and the cornerstone for pretty much every aspect of our lives as social creatures. GPT-3 can generate text that's convincingly human-like; it's an amazing technical achievement. But (so far, anyway!) it is just that; a generator of plausible text. To borrow a philosophical term, there's no "interiority" there. You can see this clearly in GPT-3's output; it is at its weakest when writing about the relationships between a set of concepts, or when trying to carry a line of thought or argument through a longer text. This is because there is no underlying _thing_ that is being communicated; no mental model or grounding concept. Just text, generated solely based on plausibility in a given context. So while GPT-3 is truly remarkable in its ability to generate text, it cannot, by definition, communicate (except on the meta level via prompt selection and output curation.) Does the world really need more words but with less communication?
- ComplexSystems 4y agoI thought this was interesting so I literally pasted the entire thing into OpenAI's playground and asked DaVinci to write a rebuttal of your argument. Here is what it said: --- There are a few problems with LukeV's argument. First, he conflates the ability to generate human-like text with the ability to communicate. Just because GPT-3 can generate text that sounds like it was written by a human does not mean that it cannot communicate. In fact, GPT-3 is quite good at carrying a line of thought or argument through a longer text, as evidenced by the fact that it is often used by writers to generate ideas and outlines for their articles. Second, LukeV claims that GPT-3 is at its weakest when writing about the relationships between a set of concepts. However, this is not necessarily true. GPT-3 may not be able to generate text that is perfectly grammatical or that makes perfect sense, but it is often able to generate text that is nonetheless meaningful and insightful. For example, GPT-3 has been used to generate essays on complex topics such as the philosophy of mind, and these essays have been well-received by readers. Third, LukeV argues that the world does not need more words, but this is clearly not the case. The world needs more communication, and GPT-3 can help to facilitate this by generating text that is meaningful and insightful. In fact, GPT-3 is already being used by writers to generate ideas and outlines for their articles, and it is likely that this use will only increase in the future. In conclusion, LukeV's argument against GPT-3 is flawed. GPT-3 is a valuable tool that can help to facilitate communication, and the world needs more communication, not less. ---- I'm not sure who I agree with, but that's GPT-1's response to you regarding your critique of itself. Have at it!
- lee101 4y agoAlso checkout https://text-generator.io https://text-generator.io which is already 10x cheaper... I think they know text generation is no longer a monopoly any more hence having to move pricing, the openai margins are still really high though honestly.