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Tell HN: Apple Pay works in non-Safari browsers in iOS 16 Beta 3

• jkingsman 4y ago
  This is not a new API AFAIK. The Payment API[0] has been around for a while. MDN's got the full skinny [1]. [0]: https://webkit.org/blog/8182/introducing-the-payment-request-api-for-apple-pay/ https://webkit.org/blog/8182/introducing-the-payment-request... [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Payment_Request_API#browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Payment_Req...
  • hk1337 4y ago
    Is this intended for actual non-Safari browsers like actual Chrome or Firefox on iOS or just what there is now where Chrome and Firefox on top of the same WebKit engine as Safari?
    • MBCook 4y ago
      Everything is still Safari underneath. That’s probably never changing as long as Apple has a say (that new EU law may force it). But this would mean you could use ApplePay from the current FireFox app.
      • pmontra 4y ago
        Letting all browsers with a Safari engine use all the features of Safari-Safari fed be a way to nudge users to keep using Safari browsers instead of other browser engines, when that EU law forces Apple to open up the platform. The other browsers could be forever behind is iOS features. However that's going to make the browser experience closer to native.
        • jefftk 4y ago
          I'm glad Apple is opening up features for other browsers to use on iOS, but I don't understand how this nudges users? As soon as it is permitted, Firefox, Chrome, etc will switch from their WebKit based implementations to using their own engines.
          • pmontra 4y ago
            I might be wrong but if the upgrade from Chrome-Safari to Chrome-Chrome means that users lose Apple Pay inside the browser, something they just got used to have, maybe they switch to Safari-Safari to keep the feature.
      • freediver 4y ago
        You mean everything is WebKit underneath. Safari and Chrome on iOS are very different browsers.
        • vinay427 4y ago
          No, I believe they meant Safari underneath, which is often used as shorthand for the specific rendering engine based on WebKit that powers Safari on iOS and comes with its own quirks. Chrome does not use the same engine on any other platform as it has deviated significantly. The section on “Apple’s Open Source Claim” in this blog post [1] goes into a lot more detail on the relationship between Safari, WebKit, and the Chrome/Chromium rendering engine. [1] https://infrequently.org/2021/08/webkit-ios-deep-dive/ https://infrequently.org/2021/08/webkit-ios-deep-dive/
  • 8191 4y ago
    I have 15.6 stable installed and when opening the Stripe test page I receive an error in Firefox (“Either your browser does not support the Payment Request API, or you do not have a saved payment method.”)
    • altairprime 4y ago
      iOS 16 beta apparently provides the framework updates necessary for third-party iOS App Store browsers to use it. So you won’t be able to use it on 15.X unless they backport, which is unlikely.
      • ceejayoz 4y ago
        Stripe's demo doesn't work on desktop Firefox, either. > Either your browser does not support the Payment Request API, or you do not have a saved payment method. To try out the Payment Request Button live demo, switch to one of the supported browsers below, and make sure you have a saved payment method.
        • altairprime 4y ago
          Desktop Firefox doesn’t use the Apple WebKit engine on the backend, so that’s up to the Firefox Desktop team to implement on their own (and tie into the OS native if available, which I suspect depends on you running the latest macOS beta, assuming they’re working on it yet). EDIT: Which they’re not, per above.
          • freediver 4y ago
            Apple Pay does not work in non-Safari WebKit browsers on macOS as of Ventura beta 4.
        • nickshearer 4y ago
          Firefox doesn't implement Payment Request, so no Payment Request based payment methods would work.
  • lwansbrough 4y ago
    The API isn't new but being able to use it in 3rd party browsers on iOS is.
• freediver 4y ago
  Has anyone ever managed to get Apple Pay working in non-Safari app on macOS?
  • nickshearer 4y ago
    It's supported on macOS - I know of a couple of desktop apps that use it. If you were running a Catalyst app on Mac that used Apple Pay it would work also. If you run into trouble you find me on Twitter (@nickjshearer) or the Apple Dev Forums.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  • caterama 4y ago
    Have never seen it anywhere else. I wish it worked in Firefox!
• ceejayoz 4y ago
  Non-Safari browsers on iOS are still Safari's rendering engine, aren't they? I just wish it'd work on Firefox on my Mac. If not that, I'd love a popup that told me the page supports Apple Pay, so I can checkout with Safari instead.
  • Angostura 4y ago
    I wish Firefox on the Mac supported Keychain. Chrome does.
  • PascLeRasc 4y ago
    I have a Firefox extension that does this, but it only works on some sites and it's very much not complete. https://github.com/mike-u/firefox-apple-pay https://github.com/mike-u/firefox-apple-pay
    • ceejayoz 4y ago
      "SO post trying to accomplish this" is mine, lol.
      • PascLeRasc 4y ago
        Well hey, thanks for doing half the work for me.
        • ceejayoz 4y ago
          Thank you for picking up the rest!
• hcarrega 4y ago
  just test with orion browser on iphone 13 with ios16beta4 and works
  • freediver 4y ago
    Confirmed.
• tomxor 4y ago
  No it doesn't, because there is no such thing as a non-safari browser on iOS. Firefox, Chrome, anything Apple will allow is just Safari in a different costume.
  • freediver 4y ago
    Except they use their own browser features, sync, telemetry, privacy practices, business model etc...
    • tomxor 4y ago
      All of those things are ancillary except for privacy (even though privacy capability is closely tied to the browser engine these days). It's like saying it must be a Cadillac... "but I can choose the seat colours and stereo so that counts for something!" - i mean sure if you value the stereo that much but you have no choice over the things that makes it what it is, the engine.
      • freediver 4y ago
        DeLorean DMC-12 and Renault 25 share the same engine. By your analogy these would basically be the same cars. Which of course is apsurd. Engine just makes the car move, everything else defines it. Same with browsers on iOS. Also saying Chrome and Safari on iOS are same browsers because they share WebKit is like saying Edge and Vivaldi are same browsers because they share Blink (they share much more, but still they are very different).
        • tomxor 4y ago
          You can pull my analogy to pieces all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you are using apple-webkit, when you use any browser on iOS, not gecko, not blink... and unlike a car, the browser engine makes up 99% of what the browser does. but if you want to argue that bookmark syncing and shit is a significant feature, i mean sure whatever, i think you need to open your eyes.
• n8cpdx 4y ago
  Do you know if extensions work, too? That was the big thing keeping me off Firefox on iOS, and thus, Firefox on Mac. I want something that syncs to all my devices and supports extensions on all my devices. TBH not allowing safari extensions to work in non-safari browsers felt almost anticompetitive, but I do recognize that there are some UI challenges to solve. Apple Pay was the other big feature I was missing out on.
  • _23sd 4y ago
    I have the beta on an iPad and no sign of extensions. Another pain point for me is that the system password manager doesn't work as well as it does with Safari (and sometimes not at all), and that does not seem to have improved either.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• dawiddr 4y ago
  Apple Pay has been supported in WebKit’s web view (which every browser uses) for a while now, but with some conditions. The biggest obstacle was that an app couldn’t inject any JavaScript code of its own into websites. I wonder if they removed this safeguard.
  • freediver 4y ago
    It does not seem to be the case on macOS.
  • jefftk 4y ago
    They must have removed that: if you're building your own browser you definitely want to be able to inject JavaScript code, because one of your few options for differentiating yourself on iOS is supporting browser features that Apple hasn't prioritized implementing yet. Both Chrome and Firefox do this by injecting polyfills.
    • throwaway821909 4y ago
      You're probably right but it's not like Apple wouldn't take the chance to kill that off if they thought they could get away with it
  • gsnedders 4y ago
    https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/commit/aa041a623cf40c0d2f1781234e6ce699fb18e212 https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/commit/aa041a623cf40c0d2f17...
• sandstrom 4y ago
  Probably preparations due to the upcoming EU framework. As a short summary, here are some of the new EU requirements on gatekeepers such as Apple. Gatekeepers must: - Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet. - Allow developers to offer third-party payment systems in apps and promote offers outside the gatekeeper's platforms. - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those belonging to a gatekeeper. This includes making messaging, voice-calling, and video-calling services interoperable with third-party services upon request. - Give developers access to any hardware feature, such as "near-field communication technology, secure elements and processors, authentication mechanisms, and the software used to control those technologies." - Ensure that all apps are uninstallable and give users the ability to unsubscribe from core platform services under similar conditions to subscription. - Give users the option to change the default voice assistant to a third-party option. - Share data and metrics with developers and competitors, including marketing and advertising performance data. Gatekeepers may no longer: - Pre-install certain software applications and require users to use any important default software services such as web browsers. - Require app developers to use certain services or frameworks, including browser engines, payment systems, and identity providers, to be listed in app stores. - Give their own products, apps, or services preferential treatment or rank them higher than those of others. - Reuse private data collected during a service for the purposes of another service. - Establish unfair conditions for business users.
  • jeshin 4y ago
    i hadn't heard about this, that certainly sounds pretty good
  • smoldesu 4y ago
    This is really awesome. I'm sure there will be anecdotal refutations of this legislation on HN, but this is a great list of consumer rights to start with. Almost gives me a little bit of hope for a future of technology that isn't controlled by 3 or 4 companies.
  • zaptrem 4y ago
    - Give developers access to any hardware feature, such as "near-field communication technology, secure elements and processors, authentication mechanisms, and the software used to control those technologies." Here comes the Meta App Store to bypass all iOS privacy protections :( I really like the idea of an eject button to run arbitrary code and operating systems on my pocket computer, but 99% of the time I want it to "just work." If I valued the former over the latter I would have bought an Android phone.
• samwillis 4y ago
  This is good news, I hope they make it available in all “In App Browsers” (IABs) too, along with all saved payment cards in your key chain. As a data point from an online retailer, we kept seeing a significantly high (I think it was something ridiculous like 30%) drop out at the check out payment screen for all Facebook/Instagram ad customers. What was happening was they were clicking on ads, coming to our site, going to purchase and then when they reached payment didn’t have access to Apple Pay or there saved card details. The in app browsers have an “open in Safari” button, they were clicking that - so they could use their prefers payment method - and loosing their session and shopping cart. It was catastrophic! We ultimate fixed the issue with a warning message to customers who are within an IAB. IABs are bad for advertisers, they only serve to keep users within the social media app. Anyone with the Beta, I would love to know if either Apple Pay or key chain saved cards are available now in social media IABs.
  • solarkraft 4y ago
    > The in app browsers have an “open in Safari” button, they were clicking that - so they could use their prefers payment method - and loosing their session and shopping cart. It was catastrophic! This is one of the few instances in which Android went to some lengths to provide a good UX. An IAB can transition into the real thing without even re-rendering or blinking - and it has all the user data of the main browser.
    • jefftk 4y ago
      That's not quite right. A real in-app browser on Android, like Facebook's, has fully independent state. But Android also supports a feature called Custom Tabs, where you can have something that looks an acts a lot like an in-app browser but is actually your default browser under the hood. The embedding app gives up some control over it, and can't for example, inject custom JavaScript, but in exchange it shares state with the default browser. More: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/android/custom-tabs/ https://developer.chrome.com/docs/android/custom-tabs/
  • notsound 4y ago
    I am using the beta, and I was able to make a purchase with Apple Pay via something resembling an IAB.
• solarkraft 4y ago
  As far as I know there are no non-Safari browsers on iOS yet.
  • freediver 4y ago
    Every non-Safari browesr on iOS is a non-Safari browser :) You probably meant no non-WebKit browsers on iOS.
• candiddevmike 4y ago
  Please let this mean Apple will embrace TWAs in the app store
• turtleman1338 4y ago
  "non-Safari browsers" I thought all iOS browsers are technically Safari based?
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• twobitshifter 4y ago
  I wish firefox on ios supported the hide my email feature that you get in safari.
• sircastor 4y ago
  I hope support for this ends up in Mac browsers. It’s really frustrating to get through a car pieces and realize the site probably supports Apple Pay but you can’t use it because you’re looking at the site outside of Safari
• NonNefarious 4y ago
  There is no "non-Safari" browser on iOS. It's all a skin over WebKit.