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Heathrow tells airlines to stop selling additional flights until September
- haunter 4y agoWhy have the September 11 got edited out from the title? That’s how I saw original submission
- calebegg 4y agoI find it truly baffling how articles nowadays have three headlines: the one in the URL, the one in the page title (shown by the browser) and the actual one on the page: > heathrow-tells-all-airlines-to-stop-selling-any-flights-until-11th-september > Heathrow tells BA (and other airlines) to stop selling tickets for the Summer period > SOLD OUT: Heathrow tells all airlines to stop selling ANY flights until 11th September Isn't that just much more work for so little "benefit" (SEO?) Anyway, now none of them match the title on HN, so I have no answer to your question.
- CarrieLab 4y agoThink this just shows you truly important SEO is (to media companies). It's probably easily worth the trouble for them if there are SEO gains.
- lozenge 4y agoThey are A/B tested for click through and bounce rate, other than the one in the URL. It's a fully hands off process after the headlines are written.
- tpmx 4y ago"a reduction in the current passenger cap from 101,500 to 100,000" Doesn't seem that dramatic?
- throwaway67743 4y agoclickbait title, in reality all they have asked is for the airlines to reduce the passengers by about 4000
- tpmx 4y agoHN needs to work on this, IMO. It works way too well here. Should I flag this post? Feels a bit over the top. At the same time I can't downvote it. shrug
- ziddoap 4y agoHow is every single title considered clickbait? I'm at the point I don't even know what clickbait is anymore. Every HN thread I open, someone is saying the title is clickbait, even when the title is literally what is happening. To me, clickbait is along the lines of "10 ways to lose 100lbs in 1 hour!" and it's an article about throwing out two 50lb weights. Or otherwise where the title is clearly not representative of the article itself. But here we have... >Effectively immediately, Heathrow has requested: -the closure for sale of all flights departing from the airport until 11th September - a reduction in the current passenger cap from 101,500 to 100,000 That seems to match the title exactly? Which part is clickbait? Or what has changed in the definition of clickbait that I'm too out of touch to have learned?
- mccorrinall 4y agoWhile it might not be clickbait it is definitely sensationalizing. That usually leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of the reader.
- ziddoap 4y agoWhich part of the title is sensationalized? Because the title is almost a word for word copy of the actual announcement, straight from the CEOs mouth.
- 4y ago
- pcurve 4y agoDon't book flights with layover in London if you have checkin luggage. You WILL lose your luggage and it will take days to get it back! DAYS! If you HAVE to, make sure to have enough supplies in your carry-on.
- DaviNunes 4y agoI learned this the hard way. No luggage, airlines blame heathrow, and heathrow has no communcation channel, I think my only option is break in and try to find it myself. How you manage to get yours?
- atlasunshrugged 4y agoThrow an airtag in there before you leave and then bluster your way through! Shouldn't be that hard if they're all that overworked /s
- squidofbits 4y agoA guy was on Irish radio and he said he bought the cheapest outbound ticket he could find. Managed to get to the arrivals lounge and find his bag there.
- bogomipz 4y agoI'm not following this strategy. Did he need to buy an outbound ticket to go collect his lost bag?
- djaychela 4y agoI've just come back from holiday via Heathrow - having had my original flights cancelled by BA at the last minute. The experience of getting back through passport control was pretty bad - took about an hour, with the usual combination of poor queue management, useless e-gates and only 2 passport control staff initially on duty to take those who the e-gates failed for (which was about 50%, and always happens to me as I have a common name so there are always people wanted with my name, according to local passport officers). It certainly wasn't this bad last time I flew via there (pre-pandemic, I'm not a regular flier), but something needs to be done, for sure.
- cm2187 4y agoAt what time of the day, day of the week?
- KptMarchewa 4y agoThose e-gates really suck always. What's so hard about reading MRZ?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- traceroute66 4y ago> Those e-gates really suck always. What's so hard about reading MRZ? Its because its not fully-automated. If you keep an eye out, you'll spot an officer sitting in a booth with a couple of LCD screens. They are actually touch screens showing a grid of mugshots of the people passing through the gates. Officer needs to tap his finger on your mugshot to open the gate. Hence if its a busy day, or the officer is eating a donut, you'll get the sucky delay experience. Obviously there is little public information available, but there is one public document that makes some vague hints about what a "Monitoring Officer" does, including a reference about requiring being logged into a "Monitoring Terminal". See here[1]. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045688/An_inspection_of_ePassport_gates_June_2020_to_January_2021.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
- drcongo 4y ago
- colinb 4y agoI'll bite. How is this to do with Brexit? My local airport is not in Britain but has been a shit-show for months. My understanding is that this is true for several major European airports. Can I blame that on Brexit too?
- cr1895 4y agoVery plausible that people from other EU countries who worked in airports left, and it’s a reduced pool of people willing and able to take on those jobs today because of Brexit. So it clearly isn’t the cause of airport chaos, but it can’t be helpful.
- user_7832 4y agoEarlier it was Schiphol, now Heathrow... I wonder why there's such an issue with airports. Of course the direct answer is "inadequate staff" but the next question is why is that so much more now? Why aren't the airports doing more to entice workers like perhaps better benefits, pay or flexibility? Are airports already operating at thin margins? (If anyone from the aero industry could comment that would be great!) Did they overestimate the downturn due to covid? Are traffic volumes legitimately larger than what was expected/predicted in 2022 (even ignoring covid's drop)?
- nradov 4y agoI flew out of Schipol yesterday. Everything was fine at the KLM check in counter and gate, and at passport control. But they were short of security screening staff and it took an hour to get through the line.
- cycomanic 4y agoWhat I heard (and there is a lot on conjecture involved) is that lots of staff were layed off or put on part time during covid. Now travel levels are coming up to precovid times and much previous staff has moved on. On the other hand, the airports are not really offering significantly increased salaries. In general it seems that there is strong reluctance to adjust salaries for workers despite the increased demand.
- pbuzbee 4y agoSeems like we're seeing this pattern across the board in the economy: shortages of labor, and salaries aren't increasing enough to lure people in. Are employers unable to raise salaries, or are they unwilling? If they are unable, where does this leave us if no one can afford the price of labor? If they are unwilling, is this just a game of chicken to see who blinks first between employees and employers?
- christkv 4y agoI suspect the airports have limited ability to pass along the increased cost to the airlines.
- sfmike 4y agowhy September 11th? This is the stuff conspiracies are written from.
- bryanrasmussen 4y agoyeah it does seem like a weird and stupid date to pick.
- iamtheworstdev 4y agoRTFA: Kaye’s solution is to cap Heathrow passenger numbers at 100,000 per day for the Summer period, which they are specifying as ending on 11th September.
- decremental 4y agoIt's surprising that no one in the room was like yeaaahh let's push the date up a bit. It's a great meme though.
- iamtheworstdev 4y agoi suspect they're more worried about maximizing revenue and less concerned about QAnon believers drumming up some stupid shit.
- decremental 4y agoI don't know what QAnon is but I was thinking more along the lines of it just being in poor taste.
- kzrdude 4y agoIt's a Sunday. That week ends there. It seems best to just be neutral about it and just use it as a date.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y agoApparently they don’t have enough staff. *at their current price point
- shaicoleman 4y agoIn Ireland, the minimum wage is €10.50 per hour and the standard work week is 40 hours, that works out to €420 full time minimum wage per week. At Dublin Airport, security staff are only guaranteed 20 hours per week, need to be available for 40 hours per week, and entry level workers are paid €14.14 per hour. Guaranteed pay: €282.80 per week, i.e. 67% of the minimum wage. Are there any surprises why there are staff shortages? 1. https://extra.ie/2022/03/31/news/daa-taoiseach-criticised-dublin-airport https://extra.ie/2022/03/31/news/daa-taoiseach-criticised-du...
- hourago 4y agoMany people were working these jobs without realising what a bad deal it was. They were kicked out during the pandemic and learned that any other job is better. The only thing that was keeping this jobs in place is imperfect knowledge. Most job seekers have a limited knowledge as only know their own past jobs and the ones from close people (and to talk about pay is quite taboo in many countries). And that is how we got here. Even when there is public information, many people have a hard time understanding the implications of the statistics and concrete job differences. Corporations have thousands of data points and share salary statistics between them. Staying at home and even firings have helped some people to gain that knowledge.
- willcipriano 4y agoPeople also get old advice that no longer applies. "Stay with a job, arrive early, go the extra mile and they will reward you down the road!" In these sort of things, your direct manager probably doesn't even know what you make. There is a tight pay band set by HR and virtually no room for differentiation between employees. There is no mechanism in most roles to truly be rewarded for going the extra mile. The only surefire way to increase your takings is to be active in the employment marketplace and always looking for a better deal. Working for someone is like this old Seinfeld bit[0], if you want to be rewarded you have to get someone to agree to it before you do the work, once the project is delivered and they are satiated they won't be feeling as generous. "We don't need labor now why are we giving this guy a raise?" [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-hk5turqgA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-hk5turqgA
- prvit 4y agoProtip: Just book VIP to avoid troubles when arriving/departing at LHR. https://www.heathrowvip.com/ https://www.heathrowvip.com/ Same goes for Schiphol https://www.schiphol.nl/en/page/schiphol-vip-service/ https://www.schiphol.nl/en/page/schiphol-vip-service/ For relatively little money, the private terminal services offer you a very high quality stress-free experience. No need to navigate crowded airports or tow your luggage around. They’ll drive you from a comfortable lounge straight to the plane (and vice-versa). For passport control, you just sit in a comfy armchair as the border force girl comes to check your documents. Depending on the airline and airport you depart from, your luggage will often get binned separately in order to guarantee a super fast delivery to the VIP terminal.
- tpmx 4y agoThis is some next-gen level bait. Gotta admire it.
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y agoPro protip: take your private jet
- prvit 4y agoWell yeah, but the prices for those have actually more than doubled in the post-COVID world. Makes more sense for bigger groups, but hard to justify for many individuals who’d have previously flown private.
- throw93232 4y agoWhy bait? Heathrow has terrible service and 400 pounds may be worth it to get normal service. It is something like bakshis in Egypt... It pays off after couple of hours.
- tpmx 4y ago"£2750 plus VAT"
- pluc 4y agoTell me the EUR is too low to do any good without telling me the EUR is too low to do any good Edit: Y'all really think they would have limited flights in touristic high season if the Euro was what it was 2-3 years ago? Please!
- mabbo 4y agoI don't get why this is difficult: charge the airlines more money. They will charge the passengers more money. Either there will then be fewer flights and passengers, and the existing staff count can handle it, or there will be the same number of flights and enough money to hire more staff to handle it. This is how a free market economy works, right?
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago[flagged]
- nick_ 4y agoFree market economy is a misnomer that seems to actually mean: don't tax us when things are going well, but spend taxes on us when they're not.
- klyrs 4y agoAirlines are taking people's money and not delivering on flights. I'm not sure that giving them an excuse to rake even greater profits is going to help the situation.
- jltsiren 4y agoAirports can't unilaterally raise the fees, because there are existing contracts between them and airlines. The fees will eventually rise to a stable level, but that could take months or even years. That's also part of free markets. Sometimes you simply fail, because you took risks and the risks materialized.
- topkai22 4y agoThat assumes a perfect, friction less economy. I'm going to make some assumptions here, but to hire a baggage handler you'll have to 1) pass a background check 2) Receive training on airport safety, 3) be trained on how to load and balance bags. That will likely to take 2-4 weeks, minimum. Additionally, Heathrow slots are already sold, they likely can't change the price for the next 2 months anyways. Finally, labor is a bit different then goods- if you raise the marginal cost of an orange all the oranges you've already bought don't suddenly start costing you more. If raise the wage to attract more workers you'll generally have to raise the wages of existing workers as well to retain them. This is a really bad situation if you have a lot of fixed price orders on the books (as Heathrow likely does with airlines). If you overshoot pay and hiring to fix a short term issue you can end up with a worse problem long term. Raising prices and pay solves the shortage in the long term, but in the short term it won't fix the problem, so the 2 month cap makes sense.
- pdx_flyer 4y agoIt's a mess out there. Barcelona/Frankfurt/Munich are still solid options for connections into Europe but Amsterdam/Dublin/London/Paris are not great. A friend of mine had to fight to get his bag in Dublin. His AirTags showed that his bag was in the baggage claim area and led him to a room where they were storing bags. He pointed it out and said, "that's mine" but was told he couldn't get it. After quite a bit of arguing he finally just walked over and took it.
- WildGreenLeave 4y agoI flew from AMS to SFO on the 24th of June, I flew back to Schiphol today (12th of juli) and to be honest. It was a breeze. Didn't have to wait for my luggage when picking it up. Dropping it off was a bit of a hassle but all in all it took me 1.5 hours. I had longer waits at Schiphol pre and during covid to be honest. Of course this is just N = 2, so YMMV. But for me, I have the feeling that Schiphol is doing quite well with the amount of people. Edit; I have to admit that on the way back I spent 15 minutes talking to the pilots and admiring the cockpit. That is probably the reason why I didn't have to wait. But even if you include those 15 minutes it really isn't much.
- pdx_flyer 4y agoGlad it was smooth for you. Are they still doing the line down the outside of the terminal to check people in or have the reduction in flights kept that from being needed?
- dalyons 4y agono not at all, you just got lucky. ~5hr security waits are common at the moment (departing Schiphol, happened to a few different friends recently). 3 airlines have moved away from the airport entirely: https://simpleflying.com/airlines-move-out-amsterdam-schipol/ https://simpleflying.com/airlines-move-out-amsterdam-schipol... . Icelandair is sending its own baggage handlers on flights inbound: https://simpleflying.com/icelandair-amsterdam-flights-carry-baggage-handlers/ https://simpleflying.com/icelandair-amsterdam-flights-carry-...
- Dma54rhs 4y ago
- mnd999 4y ago
- gpt5 4y agoHoweverthe EU does have 1GB of extra space for them.
- jmyeet 4y agoJust your daily reminder that there are no “chronic staff shortages”. There are only “below market wages”. Second, if you’re a baggage handler your only wary to improve your conditions of through labor organization.
- gsnedders 4y ago> Just your daily reminder that there are no “chronic staff shortages”. There are only “below market wages”. To be fair to the airport, it's not just pay: it's also waiting for enhanced background checks to complete, for staff to be trained, increased numbers of staff off sick, etc. etc. The vast majority of the aviation industry even at the early of 2022 wasn't expecting the resurgence in passengers numbers that has been seen.
- harvey9 4y agoThe industry laid off lots of staff in the pandemic. Seems a lot of those staff are not returning - if they were then training and background checks would be faster.
- LegitShady 4y agoI find few people wait around to be re-hired for near or at minimum wage jobs - usually because there is no way they can afford to.
- FerretFred 4y agoGood luck with that! I just spent an evening watching a commercial TV channel (in UK) and every other commercial was for booking your holiday by air. Deserted beaches, only ones at the pool, no restaurant queues.. wonderful! If you can get a flight. Yes, I realise buying ad slots are bought well in advance, but there's something dishonest about this.
- thehappypm 4y agoDo people mostly vacation abroad from the UK?
- FerretFred 4y agoYes, there's a huge exodus every year because the UK climate is so lacking in reliable sun. It's even worse this year because people want some R & R after Covid lockdowns. For an idea of how bad it is this year, just Google "UK airport chaos".
- Scoundreller 4y agoOne big issue is self-inflicted: Heathrow (maybe all of UK) steadfastly refuse to implement one-stop-security, so everyone transiting goes through x-ray and gets their carryon re-scanned.
- m0llusk 4y agoMuch of this is whipsaw effect. First the pandemic dramatically dropped air traffic, then recovery saw relatively high rates of travel return. Staffing would be pressed to keep up even if wages were good.
- pdx_flyer 4y agoOne interesting tidbit that I forgot about... Heathrow is heavily slot controlled. The options the airport is giving airlines is: 1) Cancel flights 2) Operate with lower loads on the existing flights #1 is the best option as it reduces the number of staff needed on the ground and in the air but airlines are likely going to go with #2 because they don't want to risk this edict from the airport going on long enough to threaten their slots. And regulators are not budging. They actually come out and said that any slots not used, even for capacity reasons, will be returned and are not exempt.