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One-night stands will be illegal at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar
- lamontcg 4y agoThis World Cup has the potential to have some really wild consequences if they actually enforce all these laws against average football fans. I'm sort of assuming they look the other way and give wrist slaps out for stuff they find it hard it ignore. But at the same time half the fans will be assuming that's the case and with enough narcissists assuming the rules don't apply to them it could setup an interesting show down.
- Gnob 4y agohttps://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220517-psg-player-idrissa-gueye-criticised-for-not-playing-in-anti-homophobia-day-game https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220517-psg-player-idris... dude merely refuses to play, gets viral because "homophobia is not an opinion, it's a crime" and they were discussing sanctioning him. speaking of the slavery issues, doesn't the west do the exact same thing meanwhile keeping the slaves in their countries? ps. China and India etc. Anyways, I think any player refusing to wear a shirt with the Islamic slogan "No God But Allah" should be considered to be sanctioned, because "Islamophobia isn't an opinion, it's a crime", Also I would argue you can't really call the majority of muslims "privileged". So, when will that be? hopefully France will start first, because secularism isn't discriminatory, right?
- RadixDLT 4y agothis is barbaric
- jleyank 4y agoThis is where ethics and money collide. If you participate, you’re complicit. The players are comfortable enough to say no, and the punters can stick to the local pub or even bite hard and “stay home” entirely - let the advertisers know. Talk it cheap. Actions mean more but both have costs. Willing to pay?
- ahtihn 4y ago> The players are comfortable enough to say no Not if saying no risks ending your career. You don't become a pro football player and play in the world cup just for thr money.
- coldtea 4y agoWell, it's not just comfortable money you wont miss that one can sacrifice...
- jleyank 4y agoThere’s other ways to be bought than money. Very few athletes have risked their careers to take a stand or do the right thing. Their sincerity is really undercut by never taking a risk. Unless they’re just part of the bread and circuses… “Xxx is bad, unless it hurts me” isn’t a defensible moral position. Better they drop the sermonizing if it’s just feel good.
- ramesh31 4y ago>Very few athletes have risked their careers to take a stand or do the right thing. Their sincerity is really undercut by never taking a risk. This is a job for them. And most come from poor backgrounds with families to support. How many of us would stand up right now and call out our employers in public for doing evil things? Not many. We've got mortgages to pay and kids to feed. Ultimately they just want to get paid and go home, like anyone else.
- DocTomoe 4y ago"Just doing my job" hasn't been a valid excuse for accepting crimes against humanity ever since 1945. Sometimes doing the right thing comes with a cost, and sometimes, that cost is non-negotiable.
- alex3305 4y agoIf you are a footballer in Europe or South America, the World Cup doesn't have to be the biggest tournament. There are big names in football which haven't played in a World Cup at all [1]. If you want to earn the big bucks, you will have to play at a big club in Europe and play Champions League. There's where the money is. 1. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1116241-ranking-the-top-20-players-who-never-played-in-a-world-cup https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1116241-ranking-the-top-...
- krzrak 4y agoit's disgusting to organize public, worldwide events in barbaric countries.
- dang 4y agoMaybe so, but please don't fulminate on HN. We want curious conversation here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- elpescado 4y agoIs "World Cup" public? I assume this is an event organised by private (for-profit) entity (FIFA).
- Karellen 4y agoFIFA is actually registered as a non-profit organisation. ...despite making profits of around $250M/year with cash reserves of over $2.5B.
- DocTomoe 4y agoSee also: Wikipedia Foundation.
- mhh__ 4y agoNot even close
- Karellen 4y agoRegistered as a charitable foundation (distinct from non-profits) with profits of $40M, and an endowment (distinct from cash reserves) of $100M. In disputes, WMF has argued that it should not necessarily be liable for content written by 3rd-party contributors, which doesn't appear to be an entirely unreasonable position. It has lobbied for consumer rights in Copyright legislation hearings, and it has lobbied against governmental mass surveillance in which it was joined by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. It has also been criticised for some software projects being late, over budget, and not living up to expectations (so, par for the course for a typical software project?), or being developed with insufficient transparency. Which, OK, isn't great. But you're comparing that to FIFA, whose officials have been repeatedly charged (with some guilty pleas, some convictions, and other cases ongoing) of multiple counts of political corruption, bribery, match fixing, racketeering and money laundering. Also, they lobby for exemptions to workers rights protections, and for special case tax exemptions beyond those normally afforded by it's non-profit status. If you were trying to make the point that FIFA "isn't that bad, actually", I don't think comparing them to WMF does them any favors. (Or, it does make WMF look pretty good, in comparison.) Maybe try comparing FIFA to the IOC or the NRA if you want to make them look better next time.
- SaarRyan 4y agohow they can know? besides forbidding dating apps i don't think police officers will sit in the bars to make sure no one is going home with someone they just met. though the rules there are quite strict due to the fact this is islamic state
- crote 4y agoDon't worry, drinking and partying is outlawed too. And they will absolutely check. Can't provide proof of marriage? Straight to jail it is!
- runnerup 4y agoDoha has areas set aside for drinking, bars, etc. They don’t enforce rules about sex between tourists / western expats unless someone involved brings it directly to law enforcements attention and asks for their intervention. Don’t let anyone know you’re gay or the victim of sexual assault. But consenting sex between two middle class non-Muslims behind closed doors is a complete non issue.
- Agamus 4y agoThe fact that there is any confusion about this, (and clearly there is!), makes this an issue. For my part, I would never travel to a middle eastern country for any reason, specifically to avoid the possibility that something I never suspected could be an issue, becomes an issue.
- vasco 4y ago> But consenting sex between two middle class non-Muslims behind closed doors is a complete non issue. > unless someone involved brings it directly to law enforcements attention and asks for their intervention. Sure sounds like it. This looks like a sort of dystopian version of the quote: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him". Meaning everything is non issue until you have problems with someone, at which point they can just put you in jail because you've been willingly breaking the law even though it was a "non issue". Why anyone would choose to live under these conditions is beyond me.
- everyone 4y ago"public displays of affection are frowned upon regardless of sexual orientation" That, I agree with.
- shafyy 4y agoI was about to downvote you, but I'll bite. Why do you think this?
- pishpash 4y agoIt's all arbitrary. People frown on public defecation. Why is that?
- Lio 4y ago>People frown on public defecation. Why is that? I would have thought that was obvious. It's because it smells, spreads disease and is seen as a general disregard for others that have to be near what's left behind.
- pishpash 4y agoNow apply this to spiritual pollution.
- shmde 4y agoIf watching 2 people being affectionate towards one another is spiritual pollution then maybe your spiritualism sucks ass ?
- pishpash 4y agoYet we don't allow them to go too far or it becomes public indecency. Why? "Indecency" is completely cultural. People are triggered by different things. Somebody above is disgusted by a standard bodily function when done in public.
- sshine 4y agohttps://gctpnews.org/qatar-2022-world-cup-death-toll/ https://gctpnews.org/qatar-2022-world-cup-death-toll/ "The name of the current [migrant worker employment] system is kafala, a system forcing all migrants to be sponsored and subsequently tied to an employer. The kafala system has been frequently described as modern day slavery due to its exploitative nature. This employer controls housing, wages, travel, and the well being of each employee." "[...] an estimated 4,000 migrant workers will die, making this event the deadliest in sporting history." 90% of Qatar's population and 94% of its workforce are foreign workers.
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y agoThe gulf states are modern-day slave societies.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoAnd why don't we in the west sanction them or refuse to trade with them for this practice? Not only that but we're actively supporting these regimes and selling them cutting edge weapons. Why is that? 'checks notes' Oh, right, oil.
- monkey_monkey 4y ago> And why don't we in the west sanction them or refuse to trade with them for this practice? I wish we would. Possibly the one good thing coming out of the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a realization that depending on oil and gas leaves you very vulnerable and that alternative sources of energy must become more common.
- agent008t 4y agoThere will always be a dependency on resources or products from other countries - especially if we truly respect the rights of self-determination of arbitrarily small nations and city-states. True sovereignty of these states also means that they have the right to not trade with us for any reason, does it not? There will also always be disagreements on fundamental ethical issues between countries. Even between the states in the US you can see such disagreements. What we seem to lack is a principle for dealing with such situations. Instead, ad-hoc, inconsistent measures tend to be taken. It seems like if the true principle guiding such decisions were publicly announced, the general public would find it unpalatable. Are we living in willful denial? Can such a principle then exist, that would both be consistent with our declared values, without compromising our ability to survive and defend ourselves and act according to it?
- cassianoleal 4y agoThe title downplays this a lot. The first sentence in the article reads "Any extramarital sexual encounter (...) could result in a seven-year jail sentence." That usually means any sexual relation outside of marriage is forbidden, even between life partners.
- CodeBeater 4y agoI wonder how they would verify that with foreigners, especially those with a history of poor record-keeping. I surmise that there must be at least a couple of countries where a marriage certificate is nothing more than a plain sheet of copy paper with something along the lines of "I hereby declare that X and Y are married" in their local legalese. Although I can't help but snicker at the image of a bunch of poor cops desperately trying to memorize marriage certificates from around the world.
- ClumsyPilot 4y agoThat might be your problem, not theirs. They could jail anyone they aren't sure about
- phkahler 4y agoYeah, some people are so used to "my rights" that they forget there are places where you don't have any.
- batch12 4y agoNitpick, but everyone has rights. The difference is there are many places that don't protect them or otherwise infringe upon your ability to exercise them.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoAmerican or philosopher?
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- cmntqatar2022 4y ago
- cmntqatar2022 4y ago
- zaarn 4y agoWhy does Qatar have to force their values on people who are visiting for an international event? Why should any country be allowed to regulate what I do in the privacy of my bedroom between consenting adults? You being downvoted has nothing to do with intolerance towards other cultures and religions, just Qatar being an example of a country forcing values on others in the privacy of their bedrooms.
- cmntqatar2022 4y ago
- sph 4y agoQatar can remain a backward country with medieval culture for all I care. But FIFA should not host a World Cup in such a place, hence our protests. Of course Qatar is more than welcome to play in our stadiums, I have nothing against the sport nor the players themselves, the only thing that matters on the pitch is the rule book.
- zaarn 4y agoNobody is forcing me to but to reiterate, if you don't feel bothered by someone being gay, why should Qatar be bothered if someone is engaging in a sexual relationship with someone in their own private bedroom? And yes, I could just not go there. But that is not the issue here, the issue being that Qatar forced their values upon other people. I don't see how your last two questions relate to anything.
- tallanvor 4y ago
- yessirwhatever 4y agoWhy is no one trying to kick Qatar out of the Swift network?
- pydry 4y agoIt's not a rival empire.
- seper8 4y agoProbably the fact that it's not at war with one of our "allies". And because it's not threatening to use nuclear weapons, bombing civilians, taking children hostage, disrupting food supply chains...
- ClumsyPilot 4y agoSaudi was doing quite a few of those things
- krageon 4y agoThe middle east isn't exactly a garden full of fruit and sunshine.
- butterfly771 4y agoBecause it has oil.
- dr_hooo 4y ago
- ctack 4y agoInteresting that with something as big as football, the organisers can get away with a lot of bad taste decisions. They can host wherever they want and they will be guaranteed a sufficient turnout thanks to the absolute massiveness of the fanbase. Woman's rights or workers rights in a faraway country? Fat load of nothing issues for many who want to see their country in the semis.
- coldtea 4y agoIt's not about this being football. It's because those guys are friendly governments to western interests. If they weren't there would be 10x the media and government noise for 1/10 the bad stuff (if it wasn't cancelled or boycotted altogether).
- dotancohen 4y ago
- themitigating 4y agoYou mean freedoms?
- dotancohen 4y agoNo, I mean culture. You are also free to pursue an academic career, not take drugs, and speak elegantly. But that lifestyle is far less glorified in Western media than drug use, gangsta life, and profanity. Here's a thought: his many Western popular media heros use violence to achieve their goals? How many use rhetoric, critical thinking, and respectful verbal persuasion?
- dTal 4y agoHow many Qatari pop media heroes "use rhetoric, critical thinking, and respectful verbal persuasion?" I think you'll have a hard time arguing that the country with the death penalty for adultery is a less violent culture than the one that made Harry Potter and Doctor Who (both nonviolent).
- ykevinator2 4y ago
- Terry_Roll 4y agoWhy are countries that ban/criminalise/being negative to non heterosexual people using a computer? After all Alan Turing was supposed to have been gay and his input is all over computers and smart phones! Now I also hope this is actually designed to cut down on people trafficking and the exploitation of the less fortunate, because there have been some nasty diseases going around and virus hide in parts of the body where the immune system cant go, like the testes, ovaries, eyes and brain.
- alexcason 4y agoMaybe this is true, or maybe it isn’t but I would question any news story where the source is the Daily Star via Marca.
- throw_m239339 4y agoAdultery is also illegal in Dubai, yet it doesn't stop all the Emirati (plenty from Qatar and Saudi Arabia as well) to go have sex with white prostitutes in the so called biggest "yatching" hub in the world... the hypocrisy of these countries...
- ClumsyPilot 4y agoIts basically like Russia - rule by the law, not rule of law. Thats why the laws are so strict - they dont apply to the right people. Every time someone in the west makes excuses for rule breaking by their government (and it. Usually seems to be the right that does so, so much for freedom), this is what they are moving towards.
- boomboomsubban 4y agoWhy is the main source for this article a UK police officer's comments in a tabloid?
- ipnon 4y agoThe Qatari government is interested in playing both sides. They want to enforce their law while appearing modern to the international community. Therefore you won't hear about this in Qatari news media, although it seems they'll be quick to punish any saucy post-match celebrations.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago>although it seems they'll be quick to punish any saucy post-match celebrations. Is there any source for this beyond a UK police officer talking to a tabloid? As yes it violates their laws, but they've held all sorts of events and I've never heard of a massive crackdown on tourist adultery. Qatar's laws are dumb and/or inhumane, and are a reason the World Cup should not be hosted there. Still, they're willing to sell alcohol to tourists so I doubt they'll strictly enforce this law either.
- anemoiac 4y agoPlease refresh my memory - why is the World Cup being held in Qatar???
- arnvald 4y agoMoney
- klausjensen 4y agoMillions and millions of dollars in bribes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_corruption_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_corruption_case
- sph 4y agoIt's not only FIFA. Formula 1 loves to drop historical circuits to go race at some intolerant and filthy rich Middle Eastern country. We've dropped Germany and soon France, and got Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain. Saudi Arabia had a dress code guide for fans and media, for instance. Women should refrain from wearing indecent clothes, like short sleeves. https://www.marca.com/en/f1/2021/10/18/616dba0122601dfc398b45d5.html https://www.marca.com/en/f1/2021/10/18/616dba0122601dfc398b4...
- iamtheworstdev 4y agooh don't forget all of the Americans that just played golf in the Saudi LIV tournament
- mkl95 4y ago> Flogging is used in Qatar as a punishment for alcohol consumption or illicit sexual relations. According to Amnesty International, in 2012 at least six foreign nationals were sentenced to floggings of either 40 or 100 lashes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Qatar#Legal_system_and_punishment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Qatar#Legal_sy...
- pishpash 4y agoSingapore uses public caning. This stuff seems common in city-states.
- DocTomoe 4y agoSmall area means less space to put large prisons on it - which means punishment moves to more corporeal and less incarceration. Especially with "morality" laws, where there is no real reason to protect society from a "criminal", that may be a good way to handle things. I'd guess many folks sitting in prison in the US for smoking weed would much rather have a few whips with a cane than losing years and years doing nothing productive.
- perfunctory 4y ago> Small area means less space to put large prisons on it - which means punishment moves to more corporeal and less incarceration Did you just make it up?
- ngc248 4y ago>>> would much rather have a few whips with a cane than losing years and years doing nothing productive. I know people who have been caned (for alochol consumption) in the mid-east who still have problems walking today, so no that cannot be an alternative.
- no-reply 4y agoAlthough it is going to hurt, you probably won't forget your lashes till your death. Actually works.
- throw93232 4y agoOne night stands are not illegal in Arabic law, there are even prostitutes. In theory you get married just before and divorce just after the act. In practise anything sexual is forbidden in public. And some hotels may deny accommodation to unmarried couples. But going out in typical "pride" outfit is insensitive and propably bad idea. Like wearing SS uniform in Germany.
- themitigating 4y agoWhat horrors similar to the Nazi's have homosexuals committed to earn a sensitive response im Qatar?
- throw93232 4y agoAsk prophet. I just want to deter some activists from getting into troubles.
- fbn79 4y agoIn Qatar drinking alcohol in public is not allowed and being drunk in public is a crime.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- vimsee 4y agoActually, it is the same in Norway. Though less enforced and lighter punishment.
- smcl 4y agoNot really. Norway has pubs and restaurants though, and I imagine has a higher threshold for “being drunk” than Qatar edit: huh I mixed up my middle-east countries I think, I didn't realise you could normally go out for a beer. I still think that suggesting the two places are equivalent is a little bit of a stretch though.
- powerapple 4y agoYou can drink in rooms, bars and restaurants in hotels, home bars in Qatar. Police do check for drunk driving. Haven't seen too many drunk people, but I assume if you are not causing others to complain, you would be fine.
- fy20 4y agoThis is how it is in other Gulf countries (if you are not causing anyone to complain it's basically ignored) and honestly I don't see why Western countries are so tolerant. If you are a taxi driver in the US taking drunk people home, and they are talking abusively to you, you pretty much have to just suck it up.
- olalonde 4y agoBecause talking abusively is not a crime in Western countries, drunk or not. Taxi drivers can refuse to drive such people if they want to.
- kif 4y agoThe title is a bit weird, since I think this will be more of an issue for people who are in a serious/long-term relationship but aren't married.
- rg111 4y agoMore than half people I know in Europe are. A lot of Americans are, too.
- Gnob 4y agocan't hold themselves for a week till they're back? my heart goes for them, God lord, how can one spend a week without sex, horrible, must invade the country and establish democracy.
- rg111 4y agoOne can "hold themselves" for not a week but for months. But to be forced to hold oneself for even one hour is something I don't take so kindly.
- Gnob 4y agoOh ofc, one should never take such a thing so kindly, only the Muslims in the west should respect the cultures and the traditions and learn religious tolerance. weird how the westerners actually don't tolerate others and it's you either agree with me or you're an enemy sort of attitude. I thought this attitude usually stems only from these hateful religious zealots who refuse to "integrate" or "tolerate" others.
- rg111 4y agoWesterners have problems with themselves being forced to do things they don't want. Muslims have problems with others eating pork or having premarital sex. Or how MAGA people and Muslims both have problems with others being gay or lesbian. Westerners don't force immigrants Muslims or others Muslims to have pre-marital sex, but Muslims force Westerners to not have pre-marital sex. Westerners will tolerate or won't pay attention at all if Muslims or whatever other group are abstaining from pre-marital sex, but Muslims won't tolerate Westerners having pre-marital sex. The sole focus is on living and letting live, and not forcing anything on others. Liberalism is about tolerating people different from you. And it should go both ways. (By Muslims, here, I mean, practising, Sunnah abiding, conservative Muslims. I do not mean to pigeonhole.)
- andix 4y agoJust don’t go there and don’t watch it on TV. Problem solved.
- qubex 4y agoWon’t go. Won’t watch. I’d boycott it if I ever went or watched football generally, but it’s one of those things I am absolutely uninterested in, so unfortunately I’m not even able to take an active stand against this bullshit.
- everdrive 4y agoPerhaps there will be a surge in temporary marriages? https://www.interestingfacts.org/fact/temporary-marriage-in-iran https://www.interestingfacts.org/fact/temporary-marriage-in-...
- danamit 4y agoQatar is Sunni, they do not do temporary marriages, which is a Shia thing.
- rob74 4y ago> The Daily Star now reports that there is growing concern from UK law enforcement about the possibility of British fans facing stiff penalties for doing things that they would not think twice about. Do I sound too conservative if I say that it's often a good idea to think twice before having a one-night stand?
- e1g 4y agoIf you see sex as a perishable intimate resource, then it’s not conservative to move slower. If you see sex as one step up from dancing, then it’s likely to still be playful in any quantity (when practiced safely and consensually)
- smcl 4y agoIt depends what you mean by “think twice”. It could be that you’re saying that you should not be reckless - to be extra sure you both have the same expectations from the encounter, that you both consent, that neither one of you is beyond the point of being able to properly give that consent (ie you and partner aren’t completely intoxicated), that nobody else’s feelings are going to be hurt and a few other things, that you use protection etc … But if you mean that people shouldn’t ever be having one night stands, yeah I think that is a little more conservative than the average person. In this context though, the Daily Star means that this is something people might not even consider is illegal, having not grown up or otherwise lived in a strictly religious state
- mensetmanusman 4y agoIf alcohol is involved, there is no way to be sure
- smcl 4y agoSorry, what is it that you're trying to say?
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
- qubex 4y agoI’ve never been interested in football, I’ve never watched it, and this basically ensures I never will. Basically it means that if I and my girlfriend went there we’d be considered criminals if we had sex? This is absolutely absurd. I understand that this is all about money and that FIFA is probably one of the most corrupt organisations in the world, but how on Earth did they come to think that westerners worldwide would be OK with this?
- bongoman37 4y ago
- rg111 4y ago> different culture Different culture, when used to subdue and forbid what others do, stops being a goal of a xenophilic society and starts being a nuisance to personal liberty. I am a xenophilic person, and I am absolutely disgusted by things such as this.
- no-reply 4y agoCertainly you would agree there are bounds to personal liberty.
- rg111 4y agoIf you are not harming anyone, there is no limit. E.g.: I would not want to see people murdering each other even if they are consenting. I would not ever eat dog meat, but I am fine with other people eating dogs or cows or pigs or whatever. You can throw your punch anywhere, as long as my nose is not in there. (Take this sentence literally) Please do not get into the metaphysical debate of what harm will mean broadly. Not in the mood. Adult people having a fun night in a hotel room is not harming anyone.
- azth 4y ago> Adult people having a fun night in a hotel room is not harming anyone. Are you sure? What if they publicize it? And why is "harm" (as vague as that can be) the main determinant of how one should act? What if such harm is not immediately obvious to us?
- Gnob 4y ago> If you are not harming anyone, there is no limit. Yes, I am sure your opinion is the one should be enforced everywhere, but excuse my rudeness, because of what exactly? Because you feel entitled? or what?
- Ondigo 4y agoBy that logic is incest ok with you?
- Someone 4y agoSo, just get married for a night, then (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%27ah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%27ah: “Nikah mut'ah Arabic: نكاح المتعة, romanized: nikāḥ al-mutʿah, literally "pleasure marriage"; temporary marriage: 1045 or Sigheh (Persian: صیغه ، ازدواج موقت) is a private and verbal temporary marriage contract that is practiced in Twelver Shia Islam in which the duration of the marriage and the mahr must be specified and agreed upon in advance.”
- azth 4y agoThis is not acceptable for the majority of Muslims, who are Sunnis. We have clear texts prohibiting such a marriage.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- falcolas 4y agoAnd then the woman must wait and prove she is not pregnant before remarrying. Just the woman.
- missedthecue 4y agoWell the point is to see if an unexpected pregnancy arose from the marriage. It really wouldn't make sense for the man to wait too, practically speaking.
- falcolas 4y agoWhat happens if the woman is pregnant, but the man’s already remarried? Its not like the waiting period will change anything… the woman would still be screwed in such a culture.
- missedthecue 4y agoIf the woman is pregnant by him but the man remarried, he must pay her continuing child maintenance and pay for accommodations for the child as well, according to islamic law.
- ls15 4y agoI will try to flag all companies in my mind that are advertising on this event and then continue to avoid them if possible.
- truthwhisperer 4y ago
- ls15 4y agoTo the neighbour that I cannot reply to: > Please respect conservative views on life too. I think it is a good idea to marry first especially if you are a woman. I respect all kinds of viewpoints as long as they respect other viewpoints as well. A viewpoint that tries to jail people for their very personal decisions is inherently not respectable, because it is itself by definition lacking respect.
- azth 4y agoWho said that such decisions are personal, and won't affect society?
- ls15 4y agoI say they are personal, because they affect the individual much more than anyone else. Of course everything we do is affecting society somehow, but that does not eliminate personal freedom. If it affects me more than it affects you, my opinion weighs more than your's and vice versa.
- Gnob 4y ago> Of course everything we do is affecting society somehow Yeah, somehow Europe is now aging, weird, ha? > If it affects me more than it affects you, my opinion weighs more than yours and vice versa. So, Who defines or measures this? you? great, should start a "you religion", this is starting to take shape. Now If a drug dealer says his actions do affect him far more than his buyers, it should make sense for his opinion to outweigh the court's opinion because he's getting much more money hence his trade is affecting him much more than the little amounts he sells individually to people. Totally makes sense.
- tut-urut-utut 4y agoI'm not sure about Qatar, but many Islamic countries got around such regulations by introducing or tolerating "one night marriages". They just marry before having sex, and divorce afterwards. Islam doesn't forbid men to have more than one wife simultaneously, so it covers even already married customers.
- necovek 4y agoWhat about married women?
- tut-urut-utut 4y agoI doubt there will be many there during the football World Cup, you Unmensch.
- necovek 4y agoYou specifically talked about "many other Islamic countries", and none of them are hosting the World Cup ;)
- wodenokoto 4y agoLet’s keep the conversation to the topic of the article. It’s still unclear how Qatar will go about this, but looking at other countries in the GCC, there seems to be willingness to let things slide or setup up special zones. I would expect some sort of World Cup village, that would be off limits to Muslim and serve alcohol and look the other way with regards to sex before marriage. And it’s not like World Cup fans don’t regularly break laws about public intoxication and hosting nations usually let’s that slide. So why not Qatar on one night stands? They must know what kind of crowd they are inviting, when the decided to spend billions and billions of dollars to prepare for the invites. I doubt Qatar police is preparing for mass incarceration of football fans or that the organizers will be surprised at seeing drunk and horny fans.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- christophilus 4y agoA few years back, John Oliver did a piece on FIFA and Qatar [0]. This will probably be the first World Cup that I don’t watch. 8 years ago! I’m getting old. [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I
- CogitoCogito 4y agoFrom the article: --------------------------- Nasser Al-Khater, chairman of Qatar's 2022 World Cup organising committee, has said that all World Cup attendees will be safe regardless of their sexual orientation or culture. In December 2021 Al-Khater did confirm that "homosexuality is not allowed" in the emirate, but promises that LGTBIQ+ fans will have the right to travel to the country and attend matches. "Qatar and the region are a lot more conservative," Al-Khater told CNN. "And this is what we ask fans to respect. And we're sure that fans will respect that. "We respect different cultures and we expect other cultures to respect ours. "Qatar is a tolerant country. It's a welcoming country. It's a hospitable country." --------------------------- Al-Khater seems to define "tolerant", "welcoming" and "hospitable" differently than I do.
- huyto 4y agoif a man travelled to USA with a 10 year old wife he could end up in prison for decades, while in many cultures such an arrangement is normal and accepted. if we wanted to achieve "absolute tolerance" we would simply have to remove all laws because they are all intolerant in some way against someone. tolerance does not mean that we have to accept the behavior of people who act in ways which are offensive to us. tolerance is the mutual respect of eachother's boundaries, namely that the people who visit Qatar respect the culture and laws of the country, and the people of Qatar in return respect the rights and freedom of those visitors
- marcus_holmes 4y agoTolerant means being able to tolerate (and respect) people with different ideas and opinions about how the world works. Someone is bound to wheel out the old "no tolerance for intolerance" line, which is fine, but doesn't mean you can go to someone else's country and tell them that they're wrong and should be doing things the way you do them.
- alkonaut 4y ago> if a man travelled to USA with a 10 year old wife he could end up in prison for decades, while in many cultures such an arrangement is normal and accepted. This isn't about whether or not to wear shoes indoors or not. It's not about regional cultural quirks, but about fundamental human rights. What actually constitutes fundamental human rights depends on the framework, but the correct one (and importantly the one FIFA follows obviously) is the "liberal/progressive/secular" one. Which is why an organization that supposedly values those rights shouldn't let a country that doesn't value them host a world cup. > tolerance is the mutual respect of eachother's boundaries, namely that the people who visit Qatar respect the culture and laws of the country, and the people of Qatar in return respect the rights and freedom of those visitors That loses the context of the World Cup. Basically saying "we want to host the world cup" is synonymous to saying "we don't mind gay people holding hands". If not, then FIFA isn't actually championing the values they say they are (which is probably the case)
- banyouk 4y ago[flagged]
- teekert 4y agoIs it ok if you have sex the night after and then split up?
- datashaman 4y agoAll these comments remind me of this incident in Dubai. Tangentially related, I know: Dubai not Qatar. Probably similar rules apply. > Man faces 3yrs in jail for touching another man’s hip in a busy bar https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/man-faces-3yrs-in-jail-for-touching-another-mans-hip-in-a-busy-bar/news-story/a4b201db40c304642278aeaa0a1f9328 https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/man-...
- petepete 4y agoAs someone who has watched every possible minute of each world cup since 2002 I plan on avoiding this one entirely. Everything about it is wrong. When the depth of FIFA's corruption was uncovered a few years ago* I honestly thought the Qatar decision would be overturned. Giving the competition to a country with no footballing history and no recognisable players, teams or clubs was beyond comprehension. *officially uncovered, I think everyone with a little interest in the game knew it was chock full of dodgy practices
- tlogan 4y agoPlease spare me all these “cultural” things. Their laws violate basic human rights. Not only women, gay, migrants, voting, etc. - also if you are in wrong tribe. Or a little different Muslim beliefs. And they are hosting Word Cup.
- bartvk 4y agoI believe Qatar-Australia diplomatic relations were strained after women were forced invasive examinations: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/australian-women-sue-qatar-examinations-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/australian-women-sue-...
- FerretFred 4y agoActually, why not just vote with your feet and watch it all in the comfort of your own home, with your new one-night-stand partner, while drinking copious amounts of high-strength alcohol? Or in a local bar, with the same situation? That would save a whole lot of grief!
- jussij 4y agoTechnically, while these acts may well be deemed illegal in that country, throughout the World Cup authorities will be turning a blind eye to these indiscretions. The whole Qatar bid has already been tainted with accusations of FIFA corruption, so they both can't afford for this World Cup to be anything but a complete success. Countries like France, Germany, Holland, USA or any of the major football nations that qualify for this World Cup are not going allow their citizens to be sent to prison for seven years over a one-night stand.
- singularity2001 4y agoGood, one night stands are the abomination of (western) culture. This is just my feeling, I have no way to convince you. The state should not interfere with private affairs, this is the only reason why this unenforceable 'rule' should be purely symbolic.