33 ms·

Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

307 points by narmontas 4y ago

parasense 4y ago
We use this exact same laptop at Red Hat, and meh! I like the laptop sometimes, but I've actually had plenty of times where it's more of a pain. For example, I run multiple 4k displays on my desktop, and using the Lenovo thunderbolt docking station with multiple 4k displays does not work. two 1440p displays are fine, but not two 4k UHD displays. Another issue Iv'e seen is the laptop simply reboots mysteriously, presumably due to thermal panics. I have to run chonky k8s cluster on my laptop requiring at minimum 20 giB memory, and like ~ most of the available CPU... and it gets hot, and reboots. Fedora support is fabulous, and well you might expect that when you have the single largest open source corporation, not to mention Fedora's benefactor, using the laptop at scale. I've personally switched to using an Intel NUC for the daily grind, but still use the laptop for travels and what not.
- make3 4y ago
  this doesn't really sound like the type of workload a laptop should be evaluated on... although it is an extremely strong laptop so without gaming I wonder what the intended workload really is
- _0w8t 4y ago
  To prevent overheating on my X1 ThinkPad under Fedora I set the CPU governor to the power safe mode. As an added benefit it makes the laptop almost silent even when using all the cores/threads to compile huge C++ code base that may the memory usage towards 32 GB. Surely it compiles slower, but the slowdown is less than 25%
  - auraham 4y ago
    Can you elaborate on how to set the CPU on that mode? Is a command or BIOS setting? I would like to do the same on Ubuntu.
    - _0w8t 4y ago
      You just need to write 1 to /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/no_turbo , like in sudo sh -c 'printf 1 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/no_turbo' Writing 0 re-enables turbo. Note it is not the same as the power-saving mode in Gnome settings under the Power section. This is more similar to Low-power mode in MacOS which also prevents Turbo boost. EDIT: I was wrong to call it power-saving mode in the grandparent comment. It should be called no-turbo mode there.
    - hansel_der 4y ago
      in case you did not find out by now echo performance |tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy?/scaling_governor
    - parasense 4y ago
      The easy way in Fedora is using `tuned-adm`. ``` $ tuned-adm active ... $ tuned-adm list ... $ tuned-adm recommend ... $ tuned-adm profile powersave ```
      - whitesilhouette 4y ago
        and the lazy way to do this is via "panel" apps (on Genome KDE whatever). I prefer this way since it helps me switch between different modes (such as if I want to do something resource intensive).
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  Given that IBM has transitioned to MacBooks for corporate use, have at least some Red Hat developers moved to MacBooks as well? On the PC front, do you find that other workstations (Precision, Elitebooks) are better supported with regards to Linux and associated peripherals?
  - masklinn 4y ago
    > Given that IBM has transitioned to MacBooks for corporate use, have at least some Red Hat developers moved to MacBooks as well? Seems unlikely as that'd imply running the OS they're making in a VM: the M1s only officially support macOS, and Asahi only just released their first alpha a pair of months back, with a lot of hardware not working yet. There's also a bunch of software which is not compatible with 16K pages, which asahi uses.
linuxhansl 4y ago
Big fan of these with Linux. Have used T42, T500, T440p, X1E gen2 throughout the years, all with versions of Fedora. Most things just work. The X1E gen2 needed a bit work to curb (idle) power consumption. The SD card reader would prevent the CPU package from entering C10, and the fans were always running even when the machine was not warm. I have the version with the NVidia dedicated GPU, which works pretty well. It's off most of the time, and is only turned on when needed. Idle power consumption is now as low of 3.9w.
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StillBored 4y ago
I think the summary of this laptop would have been entirely different had the author gotten one with the nvidia gpu. As a user of that machine, the inability to disable the nvidia gpu and drive external monitors is IMHO a deal breaker (the firmware only allows one to disable the iGPU too). That is because its only recently that nouveau has stabilized sufficiently that it tends to work in the common cases on that platform. If your not running a bleeding edge distro/kernel getting random monitors connected via the onboard HDMI or TB3/TB4 docks are pretty much out of the question. Even then, its hit/miss with the latest 5.17+ kernels. The problem are so numerous that they aren't worth going over, but the end result is that for most people the only way to get it working (say with a couple monitors plugged into the TB4 dock) is to use the proprietary nvidia drivers. Which wouldn't be so bad, but that also means not having secure boot, and hibernate/standby/etc will also have issues. Bottom line, for linux unless you _REALLY_ need the nvidia get it without.
rmrf100 4y ago
looking forward more laptop with AMD cpu.
macco 4y ago
Why they have this bad touchpads is beyond me. Then it would be better to ditch them completely and position the keyboard nearer to the user. Like tho good Linux support though.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  I have a ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen 1 and the trackpad works great in Manjaro and Windows. I donno what the post is complaining about.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    Many Synaptic touchpads don't have proper gesture support in X11. They work out of the box in Wayland, but on X11 gestures are meh even if you can get them to work. You can use a tool to execute commands on certain gestures, but you don't get the immediate response or the ability to pause halfway through. The author bought a model that can come with an Nvidia GPU so I'm guessing they might be on X11. That could explain their problems.
- deleted 4y ago
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- jeswin 4y ago
  > Then it would be better to ditch them completely and position the keyboard nearer to the user. I'll need to carry a palm rest as well then.
  - Kaibeezy 4y ago
    I’m reluctant to let go of my X220 for exactly this reason. On typing-heavy/pointer-minimal tasks, the keyboard and wrist rest ergonomics are basically perfect. To the point where I made a wrist rest for my desktop keyboard out of carved pine wrapped with leather that precisely matches the X220 geometry.
- ccouzens 4y ago
  My work ThinkPad (Carbon X1 gen 8)'s touchpad is fine. The gestures work fine with Fedora. The touchpad wasn't a downgrade after coming from a work MBP running OSX. In some ways it's better because I can use 3 finger click to close tabs and open links in new tabs. Unlike in the article, I'm not a fan of the fingerprint reader. It rarely recognises me and (at least on fedora) I need to try it a few times before it will fall back to letting me type my password.
tommiegannert 4y ago
> Lenovo is famous for their TrackPoint (that little red thing on the keyboard), but I am not sure if I’ll take the time to learn using it. Who's still using this? I removed the red rubber because it was leaving residue on my screen.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  Me; I do not like trackpads; take up space and are not as efficient for me.
- raegis 4y ago
  I use it. Go to any Thinkpad enthusiast website and you would think the opposite. There are different types of trackpoints. The one I use is flush with the keys.
- Aldipower 4y ago
  In an industrial environment with dust, rough hands or maybe gloves on, this TrackPoint is very useful.
- feanaro 4y ago
  I refuse to buy a laptop without a trackpoint (which in practice means ThinkPads only).
- pimeys 4y ago
  It is the only thing that prevents me of getting any other laptops. Three mouse buttons and the trackpoint right next to the keyboard is the perfect way of using a laptop for me.
- rxhernandez 4y ago
  Me; it's far superior to anything outside of a mouse. And yes, I have a MacBook M1 (I didn't realize how poor the support was for Linux by the time the return window closed).
  - mateuszf 4y ago
    I'm curious - do you really consider trackpoint better than apple touchpads?
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frant-hartm 4y ago
For developers, going with Intel only (no Nvidia discrete card) is the most sensible choice. I have P15 and it's riddled with issues - not that they are not solvable, but it needs workarounds, restarts of X (logout/login), or running discrete only (which eats battery). The problem is they don't make the larger workstation laptops with Intel only.
- Liskni_si 4y ago
  Since they stopped wiring outputs to the dGPU, it's not really that bad. You just rmmod nvidia/nouveau, echo auto >/sys/bus/pci/devices/…/power/control and ignore the dGPU until you need it. And even then, it's absolutely fine to launch a second X server for the game you need to play without shutting down the first one, or just use bumblebee/primusrun.
- gaasdggasd 4y ago
  all-amd systems are a solid alternative as well. if you only have an igpu, it's effectively the same experience as an all-intel system. if you additionally have an amd dgpu, offloading work to it is as simple as setting DRI_PRIME=1 in the target process environment
  - frant-hartm 4y ago
    Yeah, AMD would be the way to go (I switched to AMD on my desktop when Ryzen came out) only if there were reasonable laptops available. AFAIK there are no AMD laptops with 128 GB RAM. Quickly looking at Lenovo site, I couldn't even find one with 64, only 48.
    - csdvrx 4y ago
      Besides the lack of OLED display, the limited RAM on AMD laptops is another showstopper then. I want a minimum of 64GB ECC, which I can get on a Thinkpad with an Intel Xeon CPU.
      - sudosysgen 4y ago
adamors 4y ago
> 7-9 hours of typing, browsing and some programming. > 3-4 hours of video/audio conferencing or other CPU intensive tasks. This is one of the primary reasons I can't even consider moving away from an M1 Mac. I used to love ThinkPads but not being able to use the machine for 10+ hours without charger is a dealbreaker in 2022.
- shusaku 4y ago
  I wonder what the battery life is like using windows on the same machine.
- rxhernandez 4y ago
  Not having good linux support is a deal breaker for me.
  - tluyben2 4y ago
    Yeah, I am getting there; I just like working under Linux more and mac OS X does a bit, but nothing is like Linux with i3 for me; it is so much more productive (for me).
    - jitl 4y ago
      i3 runs fine on macOS
      - hedora 4y ago
        Link?
        jitl 4y ago
        https://ports.macports.org/port/i3/ https://ports.macports.org/port/i3/
- pletnes 4y ago
  I just switched the other way from an older gen P1. I got maybe 1-2 hours battery out of the P1. I could barely go to one meeting without a charger. The M1 macbook lasted several days on one charge. I’m mind blown, having used wintel laptops for years.
Stratoscope 4y ago
I have two of these machines. They are very nice. Actually, one is an X1 Extreme Gen 3, and the other is a P1 Gen 3. Same machine with different GPUs. My work provided me with the X1E with Ubuntu preinstalled (that is our standard dev environment). But I found the hardware support very unsatisfactory. I use a specific display configuration. Three monitors in total: the ThinkPad's 4K display, with a 24" 4K display above it, and a second 24" 4K display to the left in portrait mode. With Linux on the ThinkPad, I never got that to work. The best I could do was a single external monitor, not both of my external monitors plus the internal. And I never got any of my Bluetooth headsets to work at all: Apple AirPods, Plantronics, and a couple of no-name brands. They all paired fine as headphones, but the microphones never worked. I noticed that this work ThinkPad had a Windows license sticker on the bottom, so I figured what the heck, let's see what happens if I reinstall Windows. The triple monitor config worked with no hitches. The AirPods worked fine. So I set up a VMware virtual machine and run our dev environment inside that. Now everything works great! (I also tried VirtualBox but found the display responsiveness much better in VMware.) Once this was sorted out, I was so happy with the machine that I bought a matching P1 for my new personal machine. (Regarding P1 vs. X1 Extreme, I just went with availability: Lenovo was out of stock on the X1E's but had a nicely configured P1 ready to ship.)
- yulaow 4y ago
  For the screens the problem could be related to the dp(via usbc)/hdmi ports. Most of the times if the port is directly connected to the dgpu it doesn't work under linux (this is, for what I understand, a problem with nvidia and their closed source optimus technology driver that is very hard to solve) That's why I always made sure to buy Linux laptops with only the intel or amd igpu, and without any dgpu. Yeah, it sucks
- hef19898 4y ago
  Getting multiple screens on a docking station to work was a pain with my X1E Gen 2 as well. Under Windows. Since I used it for work (office, not development) and gaming, I resorted to turn of the Intel GPU permanently. Reduced battery life, but not in any way it hamper it's use. Since I switched to Ubuntu I have yet to see any difference in battery life. And multiple screens work just fine under both OS.
Sherl 4y ago
T15G2 is another great machine if you want P15 but with consumer graphics and full kb.
- Sherl 4y ago
  *T15p G2
lukego 4y ago
I have one of these with a Nvidia GPU and my complaint is that the fan runs hard all the time while driving a pair of 4K displays (one HDMI and one USBC.) Drives me nuts.
- schipplock 4y ago
  You should be lucky it isn't throttling, a common issue with several models of Lenovo :).
- Avamander 4y ago
  At least it's not throttling because it never runs the fans fast enough unless forced.
gabereiser 4y ago
I find it rather peculiar that tech folks think a plastic laptop is good build quality considering what we have from Apple and others. I wish more linux laptops had the build quality and support of macbooks. This isn't a rant from an Apple fan, this is a rant from a laptop fan. ThinkPad's aren't good laptops despite what the guy with the pocket protector says. They are flimsy and feel cheap. They still have 20th century tech (eraser mouse, c'mon!). They are my grandfather's laptop.
- everdrive 4y ago
  Plastic is often a better material for laptops: - It's light - It's a bit more durable (or perhaps forgiving) when it comes to drops and dents - It's less expensive - If the laptop is built properly (not always a guarantee) it's just a sturdy
  - Ar-Curunir 4y ago
    I’ve accidentally dropped both my Thinkpad and my MacBook Pro multiple times. Only my MacBook still boots
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    Your first argument maybe is true but in the overall comparisons these laptops are heavier. Forgiving for drops and dents? Yeah, I’ll give you that. Carbon fiber is durable, not scratch proof though. Less expensive, yes, and you get those discounts bleeding into the components they use and the specs. Spec a high end Dev machine and compare with MacBook offering and it’s not even close. System76 is getting there, but they still use plastics too. Build quality, I completely agree with this. The problem is production quality isn’t guaranteed and I had more issues with PC laptops (Dell, HP, Lenovo) than I have with my MacBooks (2008, 2012, 2014, 2020 M1).
    - diffeomorphism 4y ago
      > Your first argument maybe is true but in the overall comparisons these laptops are heavier. No? X1 Nano: 907g Macbook Air 13: 1290g So just 70% percent of the weight. X1 Carbon: 1120g Macbook Pro 14: 1600g Again 70%. So they are much lighter, not just a little.
tim-- 4y ago
I recently acquired a ThinkBook 16p Gen 2, and while a different machine entirely to the ThinkPad, I must say that this is an _absolute beast_ of a machine. It's a total joy to use. It's the most fun I have had using a laptop since my first MacBook. Moving from the MBP to the ThinkBook has made me realize how... boring MacBooks are - not saying that's a bad thing. MacBooks do 'just work'. But the ThinkBook? The machine is fantastic. Sure, it has some soldered on RAM, but half of it is upgrade-able. The disk is a standard M.2 drive - easily replaced. It blows the M1 MacBook I use for work out of the water in almost every single number, except battery life. It was $100 more than a MacBook. It's got double the RAM (16GB vs 8GB on the Mac), double the storage (1TB vs. 512GB), the NVidia 3060 seems to work a little better with OpenGL apps then the M1's GPU. More importantly, you can use two 4k monitors at the same time -which is impossible with the M1 MacBook Pro. The Windows install was vanilla - not really anything additional installed. Maybe a Lenovo support app? Easy to remove from the control panel. Pretty much everything with the Lenovo machine was supported without too much fiddling around after installing Arch Linux.
- Avamander 4y ago
  You have no issues with thermal throttling or inane power limits on Linux? Which kernel version are you running?
  - p_l 4y ago
    These issues were caused by buggy intel software back in T460-T480 era - lenovo considered the problem big enough to consider not using Intel thermal management code in future designs
  - tim-- 4y ago
    Not that I have noticed. Currently running 5.17.3-arch1-1. I don't usually push this machine too hard - maybe the most that I do is recompiling ffmpeg a few times a day, so it might just be a result of my usage patterns? I'll get back to you with more solid figures later tonight. EDIT: Just had a play around with sysbench running a few prime number tests while compiling a kernel or two. The k10temp-pci-00c3 (CPU temperature under lm_sensors) seems to stick around at a crispy +64.1°C for a good few minutes, before rising to +65.6°C. It seems to drop back down to +64.2°C. The fan is pretty noisy. The CPU drops down to +50.0°C within 60 seconds of the sysbench benchmark stopping, and the fan noise is completely gone after 90 seconds. Temp is +36.9°C. Idle temp looks like it's around +34.4°C. Not sure how I can measure the db level of the fans? I do have a recorder, so I might be able to do it that way. Not sure what a good way to actually benchmark the machine would be - it hasn't really come up as a necessity. Maybe I can use the Phoronix Test Suite? EDIT 2: Doing some searching, maybe I got the machine just in time? 5.17 looks like it added some code specifically around P-states for Linux. https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_5.17#New_P-State_driver_for_modern_AMD_cpus https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_5.17#New_P-State_driver_for_... ... Someone else with my exact same kernel version reports AMD issues being fixed in Arch that they previously had. https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/u7kwza/recent_arch_update_5173arch11_solves_my_endless/ https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/u7kwza/recent_ar...
schipplock 4y ago
> Display: 15.6” FHD (1920 x 1080) IPS ugh :(
- ge96 4y ago
  Yeah I feel the same. I'd be okay with it on a 13" device
- sgt 4y ago
  Agreed. This is a great computer, if the year was 2012. I guess us Apple folks just got spoiled down the line. But knowing that there is at least a somewhat of a good Linux laptop option out there is nice to know, I guess.
- shmde 4y ago
  Whats wrong with 15.6" FHD IPS displays ? I thought the optimum display chart looked something like FHD 1080P till 24", 2k resolution from 27"-32", and 4K for anything bigger than 32". I have a 24" FHD monitor, unless I look too closely and focus on the screen during coding I don't usually see any pixels. Hating on a FHD 15.6" sounds like a first world problem to me :P
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    FHD displays need pixel perfect rendering to look really good and sharp. People who buy 1440p or 4k displays are ultimately compensating for a poor quality rendering pipeline (a very real issue on MacOS) that just blurs everything to near-unreadability.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  In my opinion anything higher resolution on a screen that size is just wasted GPU power. The author mainly uses the laptop on a stand, attached to a monitor, from what I can tell from the pictures so they're likely even further away from the screen than normal laptop users.
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
beebeepka 4y ago
What an odd entry. Looking at the specs, this is one horrible device. What is the point of promoting this old brick featuring one of the worst CPUs ever released? If you're in the Intel camp, there are much better choices using 12th gen processors My slick 5800h Lenovo laptop also runs Linux but is faster, lighter, cuter, and simply better in every respect. Battery lasts over 15 hours easily, depending on display brightness. Seriously, I can't stress enough how bad this specific hardware is.
raffraffraff 4y ago
Why does GPU get a green dot (ie: "good") if the reviewer opted for the non-NVIDIA model and doesn't require GPU for their workload? The biggest issue I had with the Gen2 (aside from the atrocious trackpad) was the fact that with the GPU enabled, battery life was miserable, with it disabled HDMI didn't work (no external monitor!) and switching modes required a restart of Xorg, unless you spend a week trying to figure out arcane bullshittery. I say this as a Linux veteran who currently runs MX Linux on a MacBook pro 2015: the gen2 was terrible for me.
- narmontas 4y ago
  This choice of GPU (Intel) works with Linux perfectly, that's why it's a green dot.
  - raffraffraff 4y ago
    Good point. I never think of the integrated Intel version as "GPU".
intsunny 4y ago
I've been holding off on purchasing a new Lenovo laptop. Shortly Lenovo will start shipping latops with the new generation AMD Ryzen mobile chips that have RDNA 2 GPUs. [0][1] This is a real game changer. The amount of power and open source VULKAN friendliness is going to be incredible. I look forward to being able to do container work, and emulate Gamecube games all on a single Linux machine. [0] https://www.aroged.com/2022/04/16/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-gen-3-laptop-will-receive-ryzen-7-pro-6850u/ https://www.aroged.com/2022/04/16/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-gen-3... [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Z13-Exclusive-AMD-ThinkPad-targets-young-generation-with-new-design.589009.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Z13-Exclusive-...
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  I have 2. Lenovo Legion 7 with aand AND cpu. And a ThinkPad X1 Extreme gen 1. I’m hoping new job I can get the X1 Extreme gen 5 cos I love the 16:10 screen.
  - dzogchen 4y ago
    The Lenovo Legion 7 Pro and 5 Pro also have a 16:10 screen.
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      Yup that’s Why I want my work computer to have one too. Try to keep work and play seperate.
- vegai_ 4y ago
  Yep, that's what I'm also looking for. I bought the Thinkpad E14 Gen3 not because it was the best I could afford but because it was the best Thinkpad with AMD chips in it. I'd happily chip in +1000 euros for a higher build quality laptop with similar stuff inside. Something significant has to happen before I buy another Intel/Nvidia combo ever again. I'd much rather suffer the mediocre OS and go to Apple.
- poser-boy 4y ago
mciancia 4y ago
Eh, I have been using latest gen x1 carbon for last year or so that I got from work and recently bough a p15 gen1 for some personal windows usage. I have to say, both machines are terrible. X1 is pretty slow (some 4c i7 with basic iGPU) - running dual 4k displays, webex and similar apps is pretty slow, even scrolling websites is not smooth quite often. Also, fan never turns off and battery life is well, not great. P15 is just ridiculous for it's MSRP, touchpad is shit, battery life is shit, CPU sometimes gets stuck at ~400Mhz just because (x1 also has this problem actually) and after googling it seems to be common issue with lenovo hardware (WTF) Also, why they they included 2 thunderbolt ports and 1 usb-c where not one of them supports charging is beyong me, having to use this stupid lenovo psu every time is PITA)
- another_story 4y ago
  Also have P15 from work and trackpad is terrible. I think it's a P15 thing as my P53 works well.
halotrope 4y ago
Generally great machines for Linux. Just a PSA from a X1E gen2 owner: Do NOT get the NVidia GPU, do NOT get the fastest CPU and most importantly: do NOT opt for the 4k screen. With 1080p and Intel GPU it is a good, even great laptop with ok battery life (if you can look over the touchpad). Wonderful keyboard, good Linux support (even fingerprint reader works). But just as with the last Intel macbook, the GPU, 10th gen CPU on 14nm and thermally constrained chassis will make this a hot mess with 2 hours battery life , fans always spinning and poor framerates on desktop. That being said, Ubuntu has come a long way and in general. Not sure if I would go for a M1 mbp, or another Thinkpad today.
- pooper 4y ago
  > Wonderful keyboard, good Linux support (even fingerprint reader works). I am on a T490s with Fedora now (this machine). Any tips on how you got the fingerprint sensor to work? $ cat /etc/os-release NAME="Fedora Linux" VERSION="35 (Workstation Edition)" ID=fedora VERSION_ID=35 VERSION_CODENAME="" PLATFORM_ID="platform:f35" PRETTY_NAME="Fedora Linux 35 (Workstation Edition)" ANSI_COLOR="0;38;2;60;110;180" LOGO=fedora-logo-icon CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:fedoraproject:fedora:35" HOME_URL="https://fedoraproject.org/" DOCUMENTATION_URL="https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f35/system-administrators-guide/" SUPPORT_URL="https://ask.fedoraproject.org/" BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/" REDHAT_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT="Fedora" REDHAT_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT_VERSION=35 REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT="Fedora" REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT_VERSION=35 PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:PrivacyPolicy" VARIANT="Workstation Edition" VARIANT_ID=workstation
  - zeropoint46 4y ago
    on my carbon x1 I had to use fwupdmgr to update the Prometheus fingerprint device firmware. Additionally the firmware that was "current" in the repo didn't work and I had to allow using the beta or experimental version. can't remember exactly the steps I took to enable the beta firmware, this was almost 2 years ago as well, so it could be that that version is the now the correct latest version in the repo. after that I just installed fprintd and followed those instructions. But for sure it didn't work for me until I updated the firmware. good luck.
notorandit 4y ago
I find the lack of Ethernet port quite annoying, even on a dev laptop.
- sgt 4y ago
  Ethernet ports can be a bit dangerous though - trip on that cable, and you end up ripping the entire port out of the motherboard. I've done that once on a iBook G4 in 2003 or 2004. Could never get the port soldered back on.
deleted 4y ago
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boltzmann_brain 4y ago
szines 4y ago
Trackpad is one of the most important features of a notebook. There is only one brand provides great trackpad. You know the answer.
- dewey 4y ago
  I agree but most developers I know use a laptop purely as a desktop machine with a mouse / external trackpad and keyboard attached to it. It might not be as big of a selling point as you make it to be for many people.
- spaniard89277 4y ago
  I prefer the trackpoint honestly. I get many people don't like it, but for me the trackpad is a nuisance and I have it disabled. The reason is that I almost never use my laptop on a table, and the trackpoint makes it more comfortable, as you don't have to move your hand between the keyboard and down so much. I guess is an adquired taste, but it's one of these things that keep me in thinkpads.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Agreed, the only good trackpad is the one by that company that can simulate different materials, touch depths and types of resistance through ultrasound. The trackpad themselves are tiny and super expensive, but it's the best trackpad you can possibly buy. Unless you mean Apple. I don't get the obsession with Apple's trackpads. My experience with them hasn't been great. They do integrate very nicely with the OS and they are pretty nice and big, but I don't really see or feel the difference between a Thinkpad or a Probook with Windows precision drivers and a Macbook.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
jphsnsir 4y ago
I'd love to buy a new Thinkpad But it doesn't exist. Thick design: 15 inch 4k, backlit full keyboard, replacable big battery, replacable ECC ram, gpu or igpu but no Nvidia(swaywm on nixos), 2 ssds (zfs mirror), ports: rj45, usb-A and usb-c at all sides(left/back/right), hdmi No need for webcam, fingerprintreader nor touchpad(trackpoint with 3 buttons is king) And yes, it can be thick/heavy. If I need it light. I'll use a smartphone... Privacy hardware buttons would be a bonus, as is open firmware.
mhb 4y ago
Great keyboard? Wow, the bar is pretty low for laptop keyboards since the demise of the IBM-era X2xxs.
jeroenhd 4y ago
I have a model from this series. I find the trackpad to work great and I don't see the problem the author is having with it. Dragging works just fine, assuming you use the correct drag gesture (quick double tap, then drag, like usual). Compatibility wise, my experience has been slowly degrading. I've had to force the Intel GPU driver to use DRI 2 or X11 wouldn't work (this might have something to do with the manual config in the sound system I needed to get the sound working when I bought the laptop because Intel hadn't released proper drivers yet). I'd use Wayland, but that just doesn't work with the Nvidia GPU (even though it should in modern drivers). A recent kernel update broke sleep for me, it now no longer goes to sleep and immediately wakes up. I also occasionally get full system freezes whenever GDM tries to load the login screen, either on boot or when switching users. Those have been becoming more rare lately but it's still happening every now and then. Just a black screen, the computer slowly heating up and nothing. Lastly, for firmware updates you just need to boot Windows every now and then. Some firmware updates come through fwupdmgr, but others need to be installed manually or through a Windows install. Perhaps I need a reinstall Linux, perhaps I need to switch distros. It works fine with it works: touchpad is nice and responsive, has full multi finger gesture support in Wayland, the keyboard is good and the palm rejection is a pain when trying to game on the touchpad but it works great for normal typing. I've also found it a lot quieter and longer lasting on Linux than on Windows, where the CPU and GPU either underclock dramatically or the fan spins up constantly.
- PhDuck 4y ago
  Honest question: Have you ever used a MacBook trackpad long term? From my experience with Dell XPS/Precision, Lenovo Thinkpads, IBM Thinkpads, and finally MacBooks, the MacBooks are far ahead. The Thinkpads trackpad are way too small, and Dell's are now days large enough but too imprecise. Both the Dell ones will sometimes trigger a click when typing on the keyboard since the trackpad is too sensitive.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    I've tried them every time someone with a Macbook came over and told me I have to try the touchpad because it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's definitely a big touchpad, but that's about all I can say about it. It's definitely not worth the extra spend on Apple hardware and neither is it worth dealing with macOS. It's not a bad touchpad at all, it's just unremarkable in the higher end laptop space. I'll agree that they used to be exceptionally good before the Windows 10 precision drivers became widespread, though. Those made a huge difference in the PC world, for Windows and Linux support, and it took the industry many years to get to that level. Going by the current state of my touchpad, I use about 60% of the area of my current touchpad so honestly I'm fine with the size on my Thinkpad P1 gen3. The HP Probook I had before that (which, to be fair, is eight years old now) definitely had a touchpad that was too small. Apple also seems to be the only company that produces a decent external touchpad, which is irritating. I feel like I'm more productive with a touchpad but finding an affordable touchpad with decent reviews is nearly impossible, except for Apple's magic trackpad. The best alternatives seem to be Chinese clones from Aliexpress but I don't feel like writing my own drivers to get those to work well with Linux.
holografix 4y ago
2022 and this guy wants to use a 15.6 inch 1920x1080 screen?! I guess 2015 was the year of the Linux desktop.
etiam 4y ago
Anybody know whether it's possible to mitigate Intel ME on these yet? I've been thinking of maybe moving to one of them, but ME Cleaner doesn't seem to have Coffee/Comet Lake covered yet. https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner/wiki/me_cleaner-status https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner/wiki/me_cleaner-status
ngcc_hk 4y ago
I noted it is on a stand. There are better stand which is more flexible, which adjust the angle of the screen and keyboard and height. I found it is making use of portable great.
ngcc_hk 4y ago
Wonder whether it is ease to use usb to try it on. Got my wife one port broken thinkpad. The windows subsystem sort of work. But it is hard to use x-windows.
tarek_computer 4y ago
Anyone with P1 Gen 2 had issues with the built_in speakers? I can only get the right-sided speaker to work even after replacing them.
- tarek_computer 4y ago
  I am running Arch Linux with Kernel 5.17.5-arch1-1. The speakers do work fine on Windows but for some reason I cannot get them both to work in Linux? Whatever settings I do using Arch's wiki, I can get everything working fine with external speakers, Bluetooth speakers, headphones, but just not the right-sided speaker. Not sure if anyone has the same issue.
LeonM 4y ago
Based on all the comments on HN about how great Thinkpads are supposed to be with Linux, I bought an X1-Extreme some time ago. From my experience, Linux support for Lenovo devices is terrible. ACPI, power management, and UEFI are consistently causing problems. Grub has an issue with the 4K display, causing it to render at about 1 FPS. The dual-GPU (Intel and nVidia) situation is unworkable under Linux. Suspend on lid close is unpredictable. The fingerprint reader has never worked, and the driver for the TPM appears unfinished business under Linux. The battery life under Linux is about half of what you can expect from Windows. My setup with the AN40 Thunderbolt dock probably makes it worse, the AN40 (even under Windows) is a terrible buggy mess, after about 10 firmware updates it is now somewhat usable under Linux. Resume from stand-by is a gamble each morning. Prepare to reboot and power-cycle often if you want to run this dock under Linux. fwupd does not work for all peripherals (such as the TB dock), so you'll often need Windows to perform firmware updates. Maybe I could solve some of this stuff if I'd spend some time on it, I don't know. I do know that as long as I run Linux as my daily driver, my next laptop won't be a Lenovo.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gtk40 4y ago
  Last time I got a new laptop, I simply ordered a Lenovo Thinkpad (X1 Carbon, not Extreme) with Linux pre-installed. I am past where I want to tinker to get the hardware and software working together, but do prefer Linux as my daily driver. I haven't had any issues with it, but I also got a relatively simple setup. I've ordered a Linux pre-installed Dell in the past with similar fine results.
  - petepete 4y ago
    Same for me, both my X1 Carbon and Precision Pro (2013 with Ubuntu pre-installed) worked flawlessly. ThinkPad battery life could be a bit better, but that's my fault for choosing the 4k one.
- BeefWellington 4y ago
  Have you used it without the dock? Because my experience with daily driving Linux at work for 10+ years with Thinkpads has been the complete opposite, with the exception of NVidia's driver garbage (which is just a problem with NVidia generally). My current work system is a P53 that has an Nvidia GPU though and it's been working very very well for me through updates and the like via dkms. The only other problem on that list I've encountered was within the first month or so after buying my T14s suspend support was a problem. A bad dock can introduce a lot of problems.
cosmiccatnap 4y ago
Trackpad and screen are the only real things I wish they would improve. Remove the buttons, make it wider and go from the base up to the keys. Whatever nostalgia people get out of the Thinkpad it's not it's trackpad...it's the nub you had to use because of how bad the trackpad has always been. I think for a laptop where you are paying for dedicated GPUs you should get an option for a 4k ips screen. It makes text so clear and crisp and really doesn't drag down the performance on a modern chipset Keyboard is excellent, not old school X or P good, but it's better than any other keyboard you are going to find on a laptop sold now.
- 4ad 4y ago
  No, I will never buy a ThinkPad that doesn't have three physical buttons. They tried making a few of those over the years, and it was (thankfully) always reverted in the next generation.
jcranberry 4y ago
I had a T15g and my only regret was getting the anti glare display. The matte cover just looks like crap compared to a glossy display. I believe Lenovo calls the non-matte display "anti-reflective".
lvl102 4y ago
I still wonder what could have been if IBM just kept the Thinkpad lines. Those IBM-designed Thinkpads were built like tanks. Industrial. Legendary keyboards. I really miss those machines. I had some of the best coding sessions on them and can’t help but think Thinkpads played a role in creating that experience.
- eklavya 4y ago
  One of my college seniors had one. It was such a beauty with that small yellow light bulb protruding from the top. Absolutely gorgeous experience. I used to want one so much, none of the laptops since have ever enticed me like that, the MacBooks I use since then are nothing compared to that. Computing was so much fun those days (rosy eyed fallacy likely).
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I can't recommend picking one up enough. You can own an x201 with a first-gen i5 for ~80 bucks, I paid $50 for mine without memory or an HDD, and then outfitted it with a 256 gig SATA SSD I had laying around and maxed out it's memory at 8 gigs. Totally worth the price and novelty of owning a tiny laptop like that!
- boatsie 4y ago
  The skeptic in me thinks that long lived, upgradable, serviceable, resellable laptops would never have survived long anyways. It’s far more profitable to sell new machines to people and businesses after 3 years. Those long lived tank laptops were actually just too good.
  - nix0n 4y ago
    IBM was selling service contracts too, which increased their incentive to make the machines last. Some businesses (and governments) would still be willing to shell out the money for that kind of quality.
    - lvl102 4y ago
bhaak 4y ago
> Lenovo is famous for their TrackPoint (that little red thing on the keyboard), but I am not sure if I’ll take the time to learn using it. Some say it’s far more precise and comfortable as you don’t have to lift your fingers from the keyboard. I might give it a shot sometime. Why buy a ThinkPad if you don't use its most important selling point?
- jotm 4y ago
  I used to be really good at using that. Even played FPS games using just the TrackPoint and laptop keyboard. I have had one on nearly every laptop I owned (OmniBooks, later Elitebooks and ZBooks) but kinda stopped using it and now it feels really awkward.
  - Melatonic 4y ago
    I found it not nearly as good on the HP's compared to a Thinkpad
- rgrmrts 4y ago
  They’re still one of the better options if you want a powerful laptop (read: desktop replacement) to run Linux on. The only competitive option is Dell Precision series (imo).
- mixedCase 4y ago
  The rest of the laptop, is the obvious, but clear answer. I bought a couple of ThinkPads because they're well tested on Linux, have the best non-mechanical keyboard on a laptop that I know of (even after Lenovo), and have a decent build. I can't stand using the TrackPoint despite having tried a few times, but my workflow relies more on a keyboard and any decent scrolling device, for which two-finger scroll on the touchpad more than suffices.
- deltarholamda 4y ago
  I like the Trackpoint, but beware. I used an old 760 years ago with OpenBSD, and after many months of using the Trackpoint, my pointer finger started to have RSI issues. (Similarly, I used a thumb trackball for a long time, and eventually my thumb started to have issues as well.) For occasional use, these things are great. Long term under heavy use, I have my doubts. It's always better to use the bigger muscles and joints if you can.
alluro2 4y ago
I had to chime in that, if 14" vs 15.6" is not a deal breaker, P14s Gen 2 with Ryzen 5850U, 32GB RAM and integrated GPU is the most performant, silent, portable and generally capable laptop I ever had (and I've changed a lot). I got greedy and switched to a MBP 14 with M1 Pro, which is also great, but almost everything (speakers and trackpad excepted) on P14s was either on par or even better (perf, ports, weight, noise, keyboard, build, screen, battery...). MBP is excellent, but I miss my Arch setup a lot and don't think I would miss anything from the MBP actually if I switched back. I know Lenovo is going downwards with Thinkpad line, but P series seems to still hold well - for now at least :/
- elric 4y ago
  I hope the P14s Gen 2 is better than Gen 1, because that's the worst device I've ever owned (by a very wide margin). It constantly overheats, the CPU throttles down, and it becomes slower than my now ancient x230 ...
  - alluro2 4y ago
    Are you referring to an AMD-based model? I had a Yoga Slim 7 with 4700U and P14s Gen 2 with 5850U and both were flawless in terms of performance, thermals and noise
    - elric 4y ago
      I was referring to the intel i7 version, in my neck of the woods the AMD models are hard to get and usually can't be customized (for whatever weird reason).
jeffbee 4y ago
Would have been more interesting if the review covered anything about the actual experience of Linux on this rig other than "works". In particular, rough edges that a long-time Linux user might expect such as suspend/resume reliability, backlight control, peripheral power management w.r.t. bluetooth, webcam, fingerprint reader, nvme device, sound codec, etc, whether Linux is able to continue if a usb-c display is removed while the machine is suspended, etc. For the most part I do expect many of these things to work out of the box on Thinkpad X-series machines but you never know, and power management in particular has often been a mess. The author's claims about battery life are so poor that I suspect power management is not really optimal on their machine, either.
sireat 4y ago
Sadly I am jaded by my Thinkpad P1 Gen2. It is ok, but you do not get the yeah this machine feels "solidly awesome" like I got with older Thinkpads 420, 440P or older Dell's Precision lineup. The real show stopper was that Lenovo used some no name Chinese made M2 SSD as the primary, leaving more respectable WD in a secondary slot. The no name SSD failed without warning in a year. So check your SSD makers.
boomskats 4y ago
Am I the only one who managed to get a P1 with a 4k OLED screen + an intel-only GPU?
foolinaround 4y ago
Can you please share why Fedora was picked over Ubuntu or Arch or others?
awill 4y ago
It's weird to me that now, when Apple is firing on all cylinders with their best ever hardware (both the M1, and the new MBP with improved keyboard, ports and removal of the touchbar), someone would switch away from Apple. I've used Linux for 20 years on desktops, but laptops, where hardware/software integration is crucial, I've never found something trouble free. Wireless and video drivers tend to be good only if you use intel. That limits you on a GPU choice. Probably an AMD APU would work well, but the dual intel iGPU+nvidia is terrible on Linux
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > It's weird to me that now, when Apple is firing on all cylinders with their best ever hardware Are they firing on all cylinders on the software side too? Great hardware combined with software that makes ones life unnecessarily difficult would cause one to bail to something that's better suited to them overall. I've been keeping a wary eye on how Apple controls root access, and I'm on the fence regardless of how great the M2 is, though the Asahi folk could earn Apple a few purchases
- AshamedCaptain 4y ago
  > I've never found something trouble free If you are specifically choosing something that works trouble free with Linux (i.e. popular with the kernel and distro developers), then this needn't apply. And practically speaking there could be nothing more popular than workstation ThinkPads.
- howinteresting 4y ago
  Everyday I use my macbook for work I'm reminded of how janky and terrible macOS is compared to my lovely Linux setup.
- beached_whale 4y ago
  I am just waiting for Asahi to become more stable and support a bit more before I get a new one. But at the price of Apple HW and getting perf/battery life it's hard to compare. The Lenovo's are in or above Macbook Pro prices. I want to not be tethered to a desk while working and not lose perf to get ok battery life. These P1's are the closest I have seen though.

307 points by narmontas 4y ago

We use this exact same laptop at Red Hat, and meh! I like the laptop sometimes, but I've actually had plenty of times where it's more of a pain. For example, I run multiple 4k displays on my desktop, and using the Lenovo thunderbolt docking station with multiple 4k displays does not work. two 1440p displays are fine, but not two 4k UHD displays. Another issue Iv'e seen is the laptop simply reboots mysteriously, presumably due to thermal panics. I have to run chonky k8s cluster on my laptop requiring at minimum 20 giB memory, and like ~ most of the available CPU... and it gets hot, and reboots. Fedora support is fabulous, and well you might expect that when you have the single largest open source corporation, not to mention Fedora's benefactor, using the laptop at scale. I've personally switched to using an Intel NUC for the daily grind, but still use the laptop for travels and what not.

make3 4y ago
this doesn't really sound like the type of workload a laptop should be evaluated on... although it is an extremely strong laptop so without gaming I wonder what the intended workload really is
_0w8t 4y ago
To prevent overheating on my X1 ThinkPad under Fedora I set the CPU governor to the power safe mode. As an added benefit it makes the laptop almost silent even when using all the cores/threads to compile huge C++ code base that may the memory usage towards 32 GB. Surely it compiles slower, but the slowdown is less than 25%
- auraham 4y ago
  Can you elaborate on how to set the CPU on that mode? Is a command or BIOS setting? I would like to do the same on Ubuntu.
  - _0w8t 4y ago
    You just need to write 1 to /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/no_turbo , like in sudo sh -c 'printf 1 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/no_turbo' Writing 0 re-enables turbo. Note it is not the same as the power-saving mode in Gnome settings under the Power section. This is more similar to Low-power mode in MacOS which also prevents Turbo boost. EDIT: I was wrong to call it power-saving mode in the grandparent comment. It should be called no-turbo mode there.
  - hansel_der 4y ago
    in case you did not find out by now echo performance |tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy?/scaling_governor
  - parasense 4y ago
    The easy way in Fedora is using `tuned-adm`. ``` $ tuned-adm active ... $ tuned-adm list ... $ tuned-adm recommend ... $ tuned-adm profile powersave ```
    - whitesilhouette 4y ago
      and the lazy way to do this is via "panel" apps (on Genome KDE whatever). I prefer this way since it helps me switch between different modes (such as if I want to do something resource intensive).
Dracophoenix 4y ago
Given that IBM has transitioned to MacBooks for corporate use, have at least some Red Hat developers moved to MacBooks as well? On the PC front, do you find that other workstations (Precision, Elitebooks) are better supported with regards to Linux and associated peripherals?
- masklinn 4y ago
  > Given that IBM has transitioned to MacBooks for corporate use, have at least some Red Hat developers moved to MacBooks as well? Seems unlikely as that'd imply running the OS they're making in a VM: the M1s only officially support macOS, and Asahi only just released their first alpha a pair of months back, with a lot of hardware not working yet. There's also a bunch of software which is not compatible with 16K pages, which asahi uses.

linuxhansl 4y ago

Big fan of these with Linux. Have used T42, T500, T440p, X1E gen2 throughout the years, all with versions of Fedora. Most things just work. The X1E gen2 needed a bit work to curb (idle) power consumption. The SD card reader would prevent the CPU package from entering C10, and the fans were always running even when the machine was not warm. I have the version with the NVidia dedicated GPU, which works pretty well. It's off most of the time, and is only turned on when needed. Idle power consumption is now as low of 3.9w.

deleted 4y ago

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StillBored 4y ago

I think the summary of this laptop would have been entirely different had the author gotten one with the nvidia gpu. As a user of that machine, the inability to disable the nvidia gpu and drive external monitors is IMHO a deal breaker (the firmware only allows one to disable the iGPU too). That is because its only recently that nouveau has stabilized sufficiently that it tends to work in the common cases on that platform. If your not running a bleeding edge distro/kernel getting random monitors connected via the onboard HDMI or TB3/TB4 docks are pretty much out of the question. Even then, its hit/miss with the latest 5.17+ kernels. The problem are so numerous that they aren't worth going over, but the end result is that for most people the only way to get it working (say with a couple monitors plugged into the TB4 dock) is to use the proprietary nvidia drivers. Which wouldn't be so bad, but that also means not having secure boot, and hibernate/standby/etc will also have issues. Bottom line, for linux unless you _REALLY_ need the nvidia get it without.

rmrf100 4y ago

looking forward more laptop with AMD cpu.

macco 4y ago

Why they have this bad touchpads is beyond me. Then it would be better to ditch them completely and position the keyboard nearer to the user. Like tho good Linux support though.

philliphaydon 4y ago
I have a ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen 1 and the trackpad works great in Manjaro and Windows. I donno what the post is complaining about.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Many Synaptic touchpads don't have proper gesture support in X11. They work out of the box in Wayland, but on X11 gestures are meh even if you can get them to work. You can use a tool to execute commands on certain gestures, but you don't get the immediate response or the ability to pause halfway through. The author bought a model that can come with an Nvidia GPU so I'm guessing they might be on X11. That could explain their problems.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jeswin 4y ago
> Then it would be better to ditch them completely and position the keyboard nearer to the user. I'll need to carry a palm rest as well then.
- Kaibeezy 4y ago
  I’m reluctant to let go of my X220 for exactly this reason. On typing-heavy/pointer-minimal tasks, the keyboard and wrist rest ergonomics are basically perfect. To the point where I made a wrist rest for my desktop keyboard out of carved pine wrapped with leather that precisely matches the X220 geometry.
ccouzens 4y ago
My work ThinkPad (Carbon X1 gen 8)'s touchpad is fine. The gestures work fine with Fedora. The touchpad wasn't a downgrade after coming from a work MBP running OSX. In some ways it's better because I can use 3 finger click to close tabs and open links in new tabs. Unlike in the article, I'm not a fan of the fingerprint reader. It rarely recognises me and (at least on fedora) I need to try it a few times before it will fall back to letting me type my password.

tommiegannert 4y ago

> Lenovo is famous for their TrackPoint (that little red thing on the keyboard), but I am not sure if I’ll take the time to learn using it. Who's still using this? I removed the red rubber because it was leaving residue on my screen.

tluyben2 4y ago
Me; I do not like trackpads; take up space and are not as efficient for me.
raegis 4y ago
I use it. Go to any Thinkpad enthusiast website and you would think the opposite. There are different types of trackpoints. The one I use is flush with the keys.
Aldipower 4y ago
In an industrial environment with dust, rough hands or maybe gloves on, this TrackPoint is very useful.
feanaro 4y ago
I refuse to buy a laptop without a trackpoint (which in practice means ThinkPads only).
pimeys 4y ago
It is the only thing that prevents me of getting any other laptops. Three mouse buttons and the trackpoint right next to the keyboard is the perfect way of using a laptop for me.
rxhernandez 4y ago
Me; it's far superior to anything outside of a mouse. And yes, I have a MacBook M1 (I didn't realize how poor the support was for Linux by the time the return window closed).
- mateuszf 4y ago
  I'm curious - do you really consider trackpoint better than apple touchpads?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

frant-hartm 4y ago

For developers, going with Intel only (no Nvidia discrete card) is the most sensible choice. I have P15 and it's riddled with issues - not that they are not solvable, but it needs workarounds, restarts of X (logout/login), or running discrete only (which eats battery). The problem is they don't make the larger workstation laptops with Intel only.

Liskni_si 4y ago
Since they stopped wiring outputs to the dGPU, it's not really that bad. You just rmmod nvidia/nouveau, echo auto >/sys/bus/pci/devices/…/power/control and ignore the dGPU until you need it. And even then, it's absolutely fine to launch a second X server for the game you need to play without shutting down the first one, or just use bumblebee/primusrun.
gaasdggasd 4y ago
all-amd systems are a solid alternative as well. if you only have an igpu, it's effectively the same experience as an all-intel system. if you additionally have an amd dgpu, offloading work to it is as simple as setting DRI_PRIME=1 in the target process environment
- frant-hartm 4y ago
  Yeah, AMD would be the way to go (I switched to AMD on my desktop when Ryzen came out) only if there were reasonable laptops available. AFAIK there are no AMD laptops with 128 GB RAM. Quickly looking at Lenovo site, I couldn't even find one with 64, only 48.
  - csdvrx 4y ago
    Besides the lack of OLED display, the limited RAM on AMD laptops is another showstopper then. I want a minimum of 64GB ECC, which I can get on a Thinkpad with an Intel Xeon CPU.
    - sudosysgen 4y ago

adamors 4y ago

> 7-9 hours of typing, browsing and some programming. > 3-4 hours of video/audio conferencing or other CPU intensive tasks. This is one of the primary reasons I can't even consider moving away from an M1 Mac. I used to love ThinkPads but not being able to use the machine for 10+ hours without charger is a dealbreaker in 2022.

shusaku 4y ago
I wonder what the battery life is like using windows on the same machine.
rxhernandez 4y ago
Not having good linux support is a deal breaker for me.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  Yeah, I am getting there; I just like working under Linux more and mac OS X does a bit, but nothing is like Linux with i3 for me; it is so much more productive (for me).
  - jitl 4y ago
    i3 runs fine on macOS
    - hedora 4y ago
      Link?
      - jitl 4y ago
        https://ports.macports.org/port/i3/ https://ports.macports.org/port/i3/
pletnes 4y ago
I just switched the other way from an older gen P1. I got maybe 1-2 hours battery out of the P1. I could barely go to one meeting without a charger. The M1 macbook lasted several days on one charge. I’m mind blown, having used wintel laptops for years.

Stratoscope 4y ago

I have two of these machines. They are very nice. Actually, one is an X1 Extreme Gen 3, and the other is a P1 Gen 3. Same machine with different GPUs. My work provided me with the X1E with Ubuntu preinstalled (that is our standard dev environment). But I found the hardware support very unsatisfactory. I use a specific display configuration. Three monitors in total: the ThinkPad's 4K display, with a 24" 4K display above it, and a second 24" 4K display to the left in portrait mode. With Linux on the ThinkPad, I never got that to work. The best I could do was a single external monitor, not both of my external monitors plus the internal. And I never got any of my Bluetooth headsets to work at all: Apple AirPods, Plantronics, and a couple of no-name brands. They all paired fine as headphones, but the microphones never worked. I noticed that this work ThinkPad had a Windows license sticker on the bottom, so I figured what the heck, let's see what happens if I reinstall Windows. The triple monitor config worked with no hitches. The AirPods worked fine. So I set up a VMware virtual machine and run our dev environment inside that. Now everything works great! (I also tried VirtualBox but found the display responsiveness much better in VMware.) Once this was sorted out, I was so happy with the machine that I bought a matching P1 for my new personal machine. (Regarding P1 vs. X1 Extreme, I just went with availability: Lenovo was out of stock on the X1E's but had a nicely configured P1 ready to ship.)

yulaow 4y ago
For the screens the problem could be related to the dp(via usbc)/hdmi ports. Most of the times if the port is directly connected to the dgpu it doesn't work under linux (this is, for what I understand, a problem with nvidia and their closed source optimus technology driver that is very hard to solve) That's why I always made sure to buy Linux laptops with only the intel or amd igpu, and without any dgpu. Yeah, it sucks
hef19898 4y ago
Getting multiple screens on a docking station to work was a pain with my X1E Gen 2 as well. Under Windows. Since I used it for work (office, not development) and gaming, I resorted to turn of the Intel GPU permanently. Reduced battery life, but not in any way it hamper it's use. Since I switched to Ubuntu I have yet to see any difference in battery life. And multiple screens work just fine under both OS.

Sherl 4y ago

T15G2 is another great machine if you want P15 but with consumer graphics and full kb.

Sherl 4y ago
*T15p G2

lukego 4y ago

I have one of these with a Nvidia GPU and my complaint is that the fan runs hard all the time while driving a pair of 4K displays (one HDMI and one USBC.) Drives me nuts.

schipplock 4y ago
You should be lucky it isn't throttling, a common issue with several models of Lenovo :).
Avamander 4y ago
At least it's not throttling because it never runs the fans fast enough unless forced.

gabereiser 4y ago

I find it rather peculiar that tech folks think a plastic laptop is good build quality considering what we have from Apple and others. I wish more linux laptops had the build quality and support of macbooks. This isn't a rant from an Apple fan, this is a rant from a laptop fan. ThinkPad's aren't good laptops despite what the guy with the pocket protector says. They are flimsy and feel cheap. They still have 20th century tech (eraser mouse, c'mon!). They are my grandfather's laptop.

everdrive 4y ago
Plastic is often a better material for laptops: - It's light - It's a bit more durable (or perhaps forgiving) when it comes to drops and dents - It's less expensive - If the laptop is built properly (not always a guarantee) it's just a sturdy
- Ar-Curunir 4y ago
  I’ve accidentally dropped both my Thinkpad and my MacBook Pro multiple times. Only my MacBook still boots
- gabereiser 4y ago
  Your first argument maybe is true but in the overall comparisons these laptops are heavier. Forgiving for drops and dents? Yeah, I’ll give you that. Carbon fiber is durable, not scratch proof though. Less expensive, yes, and you get those discounts bleeding into the components they use and the specs. Spec a high end Dev machine and compare with MacBook offering and it’s not even close. System76 is getting there, but they still use plastics too. Build quality, I completely agree with this. The problem is production quality isn’t guaranteed and I had more issues with PC laptops (Dell, HP, Lenovo) than I have with my MacBooks (2008, 2012, 2014, 2020 M1).
  - diffeomorphism 4y ago
    > Your first argument maybe is true but in the overall comparisons these laptops are heavier. No? X1 Nano: 907g Macbook Air 13: 1290g So just 70% percent of the weight. X1 Carbon: 1120g Macbook Pro 14: 1600g Again 70%. So they are much lighter, not just a little.

tim-- 4y ago

I recently acquired a ThinkBook 16p Gen 2, and while a different machine entirely to the ThinkPad, I must say that this is an _absolute beast_ of a machine. It's a total joy to use. It's the most fun I have had using a laptop since my first MacBook. Moving from the MBP to the ThinkBook has made me realize how... boring MacBooks are - not saying that's a bad thing. MacBooks do 'just work'. But the ThinkBook? The machine is fantastic. Sure, it has some soldered on RAM, but half of it is upgrade-able. The disk is a standard M.2 drive - easily replaced. It blows the M1 MacBook I use for work out of the water in almost every single number, except battery life. It was $100 more than a MacBook. It's got double the RAM (16GB vs 8GB on the Mac), double the storage (1TB vs. 512GB), the NVidia 3060 seems to work a little better with OpenGL apps then the M1's GPU. More importantly, you can use two 4k monitors at the same time -which is impossible with the M1 MacBook Pro. The Windows install was vanilla - not really anything additional installed. Maybe a Lenovo support app? Easy to remove from the control panel. Pretty much everything with the Lenovo machine was supported without too much fiddling around after installing Arch Linux.

Avamander 4y ago
You have no issues with thermal throttling or inane power limits on Linux? Which kernel version are you running?
- p_l 4y ago
  These issues were caused by buggy intel software back in T460-T480 era - lenovo considered the problem big enough to consider not using Intel thermal management code in future designs
- tim-- 4y ago
  Not that I have noticed. Currently running 5.17.3-arch1-1. I don't usually push this machine too hard - maybe the most that I do is recompiling ffmpeg a few times a day, so it might just be a result of my usage patterns? I'll get back to you with more solid figures later tonight. EDIT: Just had a play around with sysbench running a few prime number tests while compiling a kernel or two. The k10temp-pci-00c3 (CPU temperature under lm_sensors) seems to stick around at a crispy +64.1°C for a good few minutes, before rising to +65.6°C. It seems to drop back down to +64.2°C. The fan is pretty noisy. The CPU drops down to +50.0°C within 60 seconds of the sysbench benchmark stopping, and the fan noise is completely gone after 90 seconds. Temp is +36.9°C. Idle temp looks like it's around +34.4°C. Not sure how I can measure the db level of the fans? I do have a recorder, so I might be able to do it that way. Not sure what a good way to actually benchmark the machine would be - it hasn't really come up as a necessity. Maybe I can use the Phoronix Test Suite? EDIT 2: Doing some searching, maybe I got the machine just in time? 5.17 looks like it added some code specifically around P-states for Linux. https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_5.17#New_P-State_driver_for_modern_AMD_cpus https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_5.17#New_P-State_driver_for_... ... Someone else with my exact same kernel version reports AMD issues being fixed in Arch that they previously had. https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/u7kwza/recent_arch_update_5173arch11_solves_my_endless/ https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/u7kwza/recent_ar...

schipplock 4y ago

> Display: 15.6” FHD (1920 x 1080) IPS ugh :(

ge96 4y ago
Yeah I feel the same. I'd be okay with it on a 13" device
sgt 4y ago
Agreed. This is a great computer, if the year was 2012. I guess us Apple folks just got spoiled down the line. But knowing that there is at least a somewhat of a good Linux laptop option out there is nice to know, I guess.
shmde 4y ago
Whats wrong with 15.6" FHD IPS displays ? I thought the optimum display chart looked something like FHD 1080P till 24", 2k resolution from 27"-32", and 4K for anything bigger than 32". I have a 24" FHD monitor, unless I look too closely and focus on the screen during coding I don't usually see any pixels. Hating on a FHD 15.6" sounds like a first world problem to me :P
- zozbot234 4y ago
  FHD displays need pixel perfect rendering to look really good and sharp. People who buy 1440p or 4k displays are ultimately compensating for a poor quality rendering pipeline (a very real issue on MacOS) that just blurs everything to near-unreadability.
jeroenhd 4y ago
In my opinion anything higher resolution on a screen that size is just wasted GPU power. The author mainly uses the laptop on a stand, attached to a monitor, from what I can tell from the pictures so they're likely even further away from the screen than normal laptop users.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago

beebeepka 4y ago

What an odd entry. Looking at the specs, this is one horrible device. What is the point of promoting this old brick featuring one of the worst CPUs ever released? If you're in the Intel camp, there are much better choices using 12th gen processors My slick 5800h Lenovo laptop also runs Linux but is faster, lighter, cuter, and simply better in every respect. Battery lasts over 15 hours easily, depending on display brightness. Seriously, I can't stress enough how bad this specific hardware is.

raffraffraff 4y ago

Why does GPU get a green dot (ie: "good") if the reviewer opted for the non-NVIDIA model and doesn't require GPU for their workload? The biggest issue I had with the Gen2 (aside from the atrocious trackpad) was the fact that with the GPU enabled, battery life was miserable, with it disabled HDMI didn't work (no external monitor!) and switching modes required a restart of Xorg, unless you spend a week trying to figure out arcane bullshittery. I say this as a Linux veteran who currently runs MX Linux on a MacBook pro 2015: the gen2 was terrible for me.

narmontas 4y ago
This choice of GPU (Intel) works with Linux perfectly, that's why it's a green dot.
- raffraffraff 4y ago
  Good point. I never think of the integrated Intel version as "GPU".

intsunny 4y ago

I've been holding off on purchasing a new Lenovo laptop. Shortly Lenovo will start shipping latops with the new generation AMD Ryzen mobile chips that have RDNA 2 GPUs. [0][1] This is a real game changer. The amount of power and open source VULKAN friendliness is going to be incredible. I look forward to being able to do container work, and emulate Gamecube games all on a single Linux machine. [0] https://www.aroged.com/2022/04/16/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-gen-3-laptop-will-receive-ryzen-7-pro-6850u/ https://www.aroged.com/2022/04/16/lenovo-thinkpad-t14s-gen-3... [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Z13-Exclusive-AMD-ThinkPad-targets-young-generation-with-new-design.589009.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Z13-Exclusive-...

philliphaydon 4y ago
I have 2. Lenovo Legion 7 with aand AND cpu. And a ThinkPad X1 Extreme gen 1. I’m hoping new job I can get the X1 Extreme gen 5 cos I love the 16:10 screen.
- dzogchen 4y ago
  The Lenovo Legion 7 Pro and 5 Pro also have a 16:10 screen.
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    Yup that’s Why I want my work computer to have one too. Try to keep work and play seperate.
vegai_ 4y ago
Yep, that's what I'm also looking for. I bought the Thinkpad E14 Gen3 not because it was the best I could afford but because it was the best Thinkpad with AMD chips in it. I'd happily chip in +1000 euros for a higher build quality laptop with similar stuff inside. Something significant has to happen before I buy another Intel/Nvidia combo ever again. I'd much rather suffer the mediocre OS and go to Apple.
poser-boy 4y ago

mciancia 4y ago

Eh, I have been using latest gen x1 carbon for last year or so that I got from work and recently bough a p15 gen1 for some personal windows usage. I have to say, both machines are terrible. X1 is pretty slow (some 4c i7 with basic iGPU) - running dual 4k displays, webex and similar apps is pretty slow, even scrolling websites is not smooth quite often. Also, fan never turns off and battery life is well, not great. P15 is just ridiculous for it's MSRP, touchpad is shit, battery life is shit, CPU sometimes gets stuck at ~400Mhz just because (x1 also has this problem actually) and after googling it seems to be common issue with lenovo hardware (WTF) Also, why they they included 2 thunderbolt ports and 1 usb-c where not one of them supports charging is beyong me, having to use this stupid lenovo psu every time is PITA)

another_story 4y ago
Also have P15 from work and trackpad is terrible. I think it's a P15 thing as my P53 works well.

halotrope 4y ago

Generally great machines for Linux. Just a PSA from a X1E gen2 owner: Do NOT get the NVidia GPU, do NOT get the fastest CPU and most importantly: do NOT opt for the 4k screen. With 1080p and Intel GPU it is a good, even great laptop with ok battery life (if you can look over the touchpad). Wonderful keyboard, good Linux support (even fingerprint reader works). But just as with the last Intel macbook, the GPU, 10th gen CPU on 14nm and thermally constrained chassis will make this a hot mess with 2 hours battery life , fans always spinning and poor framerates on desktop. That being said, Ubuntu has come a long way and in general. Not sure if I would go for a M1 mbp, or another Thinkpad today.

pooper 4y ago
> Wonderful keyboard, good Linux support (even fingerprint reader works). I am on a T490s with Fedora now (this machine). Any tips on how you got the fingerprint sensor to work? $ cat /etc/os-release NAME="Fedora Linux" VERSION="35 (Workstation Edition)" ID=fedora VERSION_ID=35 VERSION_CODENAME="" PLATFORM_ID="platform:f35" PRETTY_NAME="Fedora Linux 35 (Workstation Edition)" ANSI_COLOR="0;38;2;60;110;180" LOGO=fedora-logo-icon CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:fedoraproject:fedora:35" HOME_URL="https://fedoraproject.org/" DOCUMENTATION_URL="https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f35/system-administrators-guide/" SUPPORT_URL="https://ask.fedoraproject.org/" BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/" REDHAT_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT="Fedora" REDHAT_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT_VERSION=35 REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT="Fedora" REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT_VERSION=35 PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:PrivacyPolicy" VARIANT="Workstation Edition" VARIANT_ID=workstation
- zeropoint46 4y ago
  on my carbon x1 I had to use fwupdmgr to update the Prometheus fingerprint device firmware. Additionally the firmware that was "current" in the repo didn't work and I had to allow using the beta or experimental version. can't remember exactly the steps I took to enable the beta firmware, this was almost 2 years ago as well, so it could be that that version is the now the correct latest version in the repo. after that I just installed fprintd and followed those instructions. But for sure it didn't work for me until I updated the firmware. good luck.

notorandit 4y ago

I find the lack of Ethernet port quite annoying, even on a dev laptop.

sgt 4y ago
Ethernet ports can be a bit dangerous though - trip on that cable, and you end up ripping the entire port out of the motherboard. I've done that once on a iBook G4 in 2003 or 2004. Could never get the port soldered back on.

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boltzmann_brain 4y ago

szines 4y ago

Trackpad is one of the most important features of a notebook. There is only one brand provides great trackpad. You know the answer.

dewey 4y ago
I agree but most developers I know use a laptop purely as a desktop machine with a mouse / external trackpad and keyboard attached to it. It might not be as big of a selling point as you make it to be for many people.
spaniard89277 4y ago
I prefer the trackpoint honestly. I get many people don't like it, but for me the trackpad is a nuisance and I have it disabled. The reason is that I almost never use my laptop on a table, and the trackpoint makes it more comfortable, as you don't have to move your hand between the keyboard and down so much. I guess is an adquired taste, but it's one of these things that keep me in thinkpads.
jeroenhd 4y ago
Agreed, the only good trackpad is the one by that company that can simulate different materials, touch depths and types of resistance through ultrasound. The trackpad themselves are tiny and super expensive, but it's the best trackpad you can possibly buy. Unless you mean Apple. I don't get the obsession with Apple's trackpads. My experience with them hasn't been great. They do integrate very nicely with the OS and they are pretty nice and big, but I don't really see or feel the difference between a Thinkpad or a Probook with Windows precision drivers and a Macbook.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

jphsnsir 4y ago

I'd love to buy a new Thinkpad But it doesn't exist. Thick design: 15 inch 4k, backlit full keyboard, replacable big battery, replacable ECC ram, gpu or igpu but no Nvidia(swaywm on nixos), 2 ssds (zfs mirror), ports: rj45, usb-A and usb-c at all sides(left/back/right), hdmi No need for webcam, fingerprintreader nor touchpad(trackpoint with 3 buttons is king) And yes, it can be thick/heavy. If I need it light. I'll use a smartphone... Privacy hardware buttons would be a bonus, as is open firmware.

mhb 4y ago

Great keyboard? Wow, the bar is pretty low for laptop keyboards since the demise of the IBM-era X2xxs.

jeroenhd 4y ago

I have a model from this series. I find the trackpad to work great and I don't see the problem the author is having with it. Dragging works just fine, assuming you use the correct drag gesture (quick double tap, then drag, like usual). Compatibility wise, my experience has been slowly degrading. I've had to force the Intel GPU driver to use DRI 2 or X11 wouldn't work (this might have something to do with the manual config in the sound system I needed to get the sound working when I bought the laptop because Intel hadn't released proper drivers yet). I'd use Wayland, but that just doesn't work with the Nvidia GPU (even though it should in modern drivers). A recent kernel update broke sleep for me, it now no longer goes to sleep and immediately wakes up. I also occasionally get full system freezes whenever GDM tries to load the login screen, either on boot or when switching users. Those have been becoming more rare lately but it's still happening every now and then. Just a black screen, the computer slowly heating up and nothing. Lastly, for firmware updates you just need to boot Windows every now and then. Some firmware updates come through fwupdmgr, but others need to be installed manually or through a Windows install. Perhaps I need a reinstall Linux, perhaps I need to switch distros. It works fine with it works: touchpad is nice and responsive, has full multi finger gesture support in Wayland, the keyboard is good and the palm rejection is a pain when trying to game on the touchpad but it works great for normal typing. I've also found it a lot quieter and longer lasting on Linux than on Windows, where the CPU and GPU either underclock dramatically or the fan spins up constantly.

PhDuck 4y ago
Honest question: Have you ever used a MacBook trackpad long term? From my experience with Dell XPS/Precision, Lenovo Thinkpads, IBM Thinkpads, and finally MacBooks, the MacBooks are far ahead. The Thinkpads trackpad are way too small, and Dell's are now days large enough but too imprecise. Both the Dell ones will sometimes trigger a click when typing on the keyboard since the trackpad is too sensitive.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  I've tried them every time someone with a Macbook came over and told me I have to try the touchpad because it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's definitely a big touchpad, but that's about all I can say about it. It's definitely not worth the extra spend on Apple hardware and neither is it worth dealing with macOS. It's not a bad touchpad at all, it's just unremarkable in the higher end laptop space. I'll agree that they used to be exceptionally good before the Windows 10 precision drivers became widespread, though. Those made a huge difference in the PC world, for Windows and Linux support, and it took the industry many years to get to that level. Going by the current state of my touchpad, I use about 60% of the area of my current touchpad so honestly I'm fine with the size on my Thinkpad P1 gen3. The HP Probook I had before that (which, to be fair, is eight years old now) definitely had a touchpad that was too small. Apple also seems to be the only company that produces a decent external touchpad, which is irritating. I feel like I'm more productive with a touchpad but finding an affordable touchpad with decent reviews is nearly impossible, except for Apple's magic trackpad. The best alternatives seem to be Chinese clones from Aliexpress but I don't feel like writing my own drivers to get those to work well with Linux.

holografix 4y ago

2022 and this guy wants to use a 15.6 inch 1920x1080 screen?! I guess 2015 was the year of the Linux desktop.

etiam 4y ago

Anybody know whether it's possible to mitigate Intel ME on these yet? I've been thinking of maybe moving to one of them, but ME Cleaner doesn't seem to have Coffee/Comet Lake covered yet. https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner/wiki/me_cleaner-status https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner/wiki/me_cleaner-status

ngcc_hk 4y ago

I noted it is on a stand. There are better stand which is more flexible, which adjust the angle of the screen and keyboard and height. I found it is making use of portable great.

ngcc_hk 4y ago

Wonder whether it is ease to use usb to try it on. Got my wife one port broken thinkpad. The windows subsystem sort of work. But it is hard to use x-windows.

tarek_computer 4y ago

Anyone with P1 Gen 2 had issues with the built_in speakers? I can only get the right-sided speaker to work even after replacing them.

tarek_computer 4y ago
I am running Arch Linux with Kernel 5.17.5-arch1-1. The speakers do work fine on Windows but for some reason I cannot get them both to work in Linux? Whatever settings I do using Arch's wiki, I can get everything working fine with external speakers, Bluetooth speakers, headphones, but just not the right-sided speaker. Not sure if anyone has the same issue.

LeonM 4y ago

Based on all the comments on HN about how great Thinkpads are supposed to be with Linux, I bought an X1-Extreme some time ago. From my experience, Linux support for Lenovo devices is terrible. ACPI, power management, and UEFI are consistently causing problems. Grub has an issue with the 4K display, causing it to render at about 1 FPS. The dual-GPU (Intel and nVidia) situation is unworkable under Linux. Suspend on lid close is unpredictable. The fingerprint reader has never worked, and the driver for the TPM appears unfinished business under Linux. The battery life under Linux is about half of what you can expect from Windows. My setup with the AN40 Thunderbolt dock probably makes it worse, the AN40 (even under Windows) is a terrible buggy mess, after about 10 firmware updates it is now somewhat usable under Linux. Resume from stand-by is a gamble each morning. Prepare to reboot and power-cycle often if you want to run this dock under Linux. fwupd does not work for all peripherals (such as the TB dock), so you'll often need Windows to perform firmware updates. Maybe I could solve some of this stuff if I'd spend some time on it, I don't know. I do know that as long as I run Linux as my daily driver, my next laptop won't be a Lenovo.

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gtk40 4y ago
Last time I got a new laptop, I simply ordered a Lenovo Thinkpad (X1 Carbon, not Extreme) with Linux pre-installed. I am past where I want to tinker to get the hardware and software working together, but do prefer Linux as my daily driver. I haven't had any issues with it, but I also got a relatively simple setup. I've ordered a Linux pre-installed Dell in the past with similar fine results.
- petepete 4y ago
  Same for me, both my X1 Carbon and Precision Pro (2013 with Ubuntu pre-installed) worked flawlessly. ThinkPad battery life could be a bit better, but that's my fault for choosing the 4k one.
BeefWellington 4y ago
Have you used it without the dock? Because my experience with daily driving Linux at work for 10+ years with Thinkpads has been the complete opposite, with the exception of NVidia's driver garbage (which is just a problem with NVidia generally). My current work system is a P53 that has an Nvidia GPU though and it's been working very very well for me through updates and the like via dkms. The only other problem on that list I've encountered was within the first month or so after buying my T14s suspend support was a problem. A bad dock can introduce a lot of problems.

cosmiccatnap 4y ago

Trackpad and screen are the only real things I wish they would improve. Remove the buttons, make it wider and go from the base up to the keys. Whatever nostalgia people get out of the Thinkpad it's not it's trackpad...it's the nub you had to use because of how bad the trackpad has always been. I think for a laptop where you are paying for dedicated GPUs you should get an option for a 4k ips screen. It makes text so clear and crisp and really doesn't drag down the performance on a modern chipset Keyboard is excellent, not old school X or P good, but it's better than any other keyboard you are going to find on a laptop sold now.

4ad 4y ago
No, I will never buy a ThinkPad that doesn't have three physical buttons. They tried making a few of those over the years, and it was (thankfully) always reverted in the next generation.

jcranberry 4y ago

I had a T15g and my only regret was getting the anti glare display. The matte cover just looks like crap compared to a glossy display. I believe Lenovo calls the non-matte display "anti-reflective".

lvl102 4y ago

I still wonder what could have been if IBM just kept the Thinkpad lines. Those IBM-designed Thinkpads were built like tanks. Industrial. Legendary keyboards. I really miss those machines. I had some of the best coding sessions on them and can’t help but think Thinkpads played a role in creating that experience.

eklavya 4y ago
One of my college seniors had one. It was such a beauty with that small yellow light bulb protruding from the top. Absolutely gorgeous experience. I used to want one so much, none of the laptops since have ever enticed me like that, the MacBooks I use since then are nothing compared to that. Computing was so much fun those days (rosy eyed fallacy likely).
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I can't recommend picking one up enough. You can own an x201 with a first-gen i5 for ~80 bucks, I paid $50 for mine without memory or an HDD, and then outfitted it with a 256 gig SATA SSD I had laying around and maxed out it's memory at 8 gigs. Totally worth the price and novelty of owning a tiny laptop like that!
boatsie 4y ago
The skeptic in me thinks that long lived, upgradable, serviceable, resellable laptops would never have survived long anyways. It’s far more profitable to sell new machines to people and businesses after 3 years. Those long lived tank laptops were actually just too good.
- nix0n 4y ago
  IBM was selling service contracts too, which increased their incentive to make the machines last. Some businesses (and governments) would still be willing to shell out the money for that kind of quality.
  - lvl102 4y ago

bhaak 4y ago

> Lenovo is famous for their TrackPoint (that little red thing on the keyboard), but I am not sure if I’ll take the time to learn using it. Some say it’s far more precise and comfortable as you don’t have to lift your fingers from the keyboard. I might give it a shot sometime. Why buy a ThinkPad if you don't use its most important selling point?

jotm 4y ago
I used to be really good at using that. Even played FPS games using just the TrackPoint and laptop keyboard. I have had one on nearly every laptop I owned (OmniBooks, later Elitebooks and ZBooks) but kinda stopped using it and now it feels really awkward.
- Melatonic 4y ago
  I found it not nearly as good on the HP's compared to a Thinkpad
rgrmrts 4y ago
They’re still one of the better options if you want a powerful laptop (read: desktop replacement) to run Linux on. The only competitive option is Dell Precision series (imo).
mixedCase 4y ago
The rest of the laptop, is the obvious, but clear answer. I bought a couple of ThinkPads because they're well tested on Linux, have the best non-mechanical keyboard on a laptop that I know of (even after Lenovo), and have a decent build. I can't stand using the TrackPoint despite having tried a few times, but my workflow relies more on a keyboard and any decent scrolling device, for which two-finger scroll on the touchpad more than suffices.
deltarholamda 4y ago
I like the Trackpoint, but beware. I used an old 760 years ago with OpenBSD, and after many months of using the Trackpoint, my pointer finger started to have RSI issues. (Similarly, I used a thumb trackball for a long time, and eventually my thumb started to have issues as well.) For occasional use, these things are great. Long term under heavy use, I have my doubts. It's always better to use the bigger muscles and joints if you can.

alluro2 4y ago

I had to chime in that, if 14" vs 15.6" is not a deal breaker, P14s Gen 2 with Ryzen 5850U, 32GB RAM and integrated GPU is the most performant, silent, portable and generally capable laptop I ever had (and I've changed a lot). I got greedy and switched to a MBP 14 with M1 Pro, which is also great, but almost everything (speakers and trackpad excepted) on P14s was either on par or even better (perf, ports, weight, noise, keyboard, build, screen, battery...). MBP is excellent, but I miss my Arch setup a lot and don't think I would miss anything from the MBP actually if I switched back. I know Lenovo is going downwards with Thinkpad line, but P series seems to still hold well - for now at least :/

elric 4y ago
I hope the P14s Gen 2 is better than Gen 1, because that's the worst device I've ever owned (by a very wide margin). It constantly overheats, the CPU throttles down, and it becomes slower than my now ancient x230 ...
- alluro2 4y ago
  Are you referring to an AMD-based model? I had a Yoga Slim 7 with 4700U and P14s Gen 2 with 5850U and both were flawless in terms of performance, thermals and noise
  - elric 4y ago
    I was referring to the intel i7 version, in my neck of the woods the AMD models are hard to get and usually can't be customized (for whatever weird reason).

jeffbee 4y ago

Would have been more interesting if the review covered anything about the actual experience of Linux on this rig other than "works". In particular, rough edges that a long-time Linux user might expect such as suspend/resume reliability, backlight control, peripheral power management w.r.t. bluetooth, webcam, fingerprint reader, nvme device, sound codec, etc, whether Linux is able to continue if a usb-c display is removed while the machine is suspended, etc. For the most part I do expect many of these things to work out of the box on Thinkpad X-series machines but you never know, and power management in particular has often been a mess. The author's claims about battery life are so poor that I suspect power management is not really optimal on their machine, either.

sireat 4y ago

Sadly I am jaded by my Thinkpad P1 Gen2. It is ok, but you do not get the yeah this machine feels "solidly awesome" like I got with older Thinkpads 420, 440P or older Dell's Precision lineup. The real show stopper was that Lenovo used some no name Chinese made M2 SSD as the primary, leaving more respectable WD in a secondary slot. The no name SSD failed without warning in a year. So check your SSD makers.

boomskats 4y ago

Am I the only one who managed to get a P1 with a 4k OLED screen + an intel-only GPU?

foolinaround 4y ago

Can you please share why Fedora was picked over Ubuntu or Arch or others?

awill 4y ago

It's weird to me that now, when Apple is firing on all cylinders with their best ever hardware (both the M1, and the new MBP with improved keyboard, ports and removal of the touchbar), someone would switch away from Apple. I've used Linux for 20 years on desktops, but laptops, where hardware/software integration is crucial, I've never found something trouble free. Wireless and video drivers tend to be good only if you use intel. That limits you on a GPU choice. Probably an AMD APU would work well, but the dual intel iGPU+nvidia is terrible on Linux

sangnoir 4y ago
> It's weird to me that now, when Apple is firing on all cylinders with their best ever hardware Are they firing on all cylinders on the software side too? Great hardware combined with software that makes ones life unnecessarily difficult would cause one to bail to something that's better suited to them overall. I've been keeping a wary eye on how Apple controls root access, and I'm on the fence regardless of how great the M2 is, though the Asahi folk could earn Apple a few purchases
AshamedCaptain 4y ago
> I've never found something trouble free If you are specifically choosing something that works trouble free with Linux (i.e. popular with the kernel and distro developers), then this needn't apply. And practically speaking there could be nothing more popular than workstation ThinkPads.
howinteresting 4y ago
Everyday I use my macbook for work I'm reminded of how janky and terrible macOS is compared to my lovely Linux setup.
beached_whale 4y ago
I am just waiting for Asahi to become more stable and support a bit more before I get a new one. But at the price of Apple HW and getting perf/battery life it's hard to compare. The Lenovo's are in or above Macbook Pro prices. I want to not be tethered to a desk while working and not lose perf to get ok battery life. These P1's are the closest I have seen though.