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A Tesla vehicle using ‘Smart Summon’ appears to crash into a $3.5mm private jet
- mc4ndr3 5y agoAutonomous vehicles present a shining example of why early adoption is risky.
- exabrial 5y agoOne expensive luxury toy crashes into another expensive luxury toy...
- outworlder 5y agoA vision jet is not necessarily a toy. Plenty of companies using them instead of larger aircraft.
- _moof 5y agoCan't imagine why. The range on those things is pitiful. A TBM or a PC-12 seems like a much better choice if that's the class of aircraft you're buying.
- harambae 5y agoAre you comparing a jet to propeller aircraft? I'd imagine the jet flies higher, smoother and quieter, although I'm not rich enough to own one so I haven't looked into it too much.
- _moof 5y agoThose are pressurized turboprops. They're turbine-powered and have the same performance as the SF50, including service ceiling, but with more range. The SF50 is what we call a "near jet"—it's technically a jet, but its performance is turboprop performance. It's not at all the same class of airplane as what most people think of when you say "jet." It's what you buy when you want to say you fly a jet but you aren't multi-rated and can't afford a Falcon.
- exabrial 5y agoI Was thinking the same thing. Backing mine out the garage now, headed over to Jimmy Johns, want anything?
- PawBer 5y agoLooks like they didn't teach the model about airplanes.
- sorokod 5y agoPerhaps should be a warning on the label. Something like: "Training corpus did not include airplanes, people in wheel chairs,..."
- rasz 5y ago"...any animals, ..."
- twayt 5y agoThat is going to be an infinitely long warning label
- pessimizer 5y agoThey can post it on all of your doors as a TOS for leaving the house. If you want to sue, you'll have to prove you climbed out of the window.
- lordnacho 5y agoModels need to generalize over what they've been shown though. Most people won't learn to drive near an airplane or a wheelchair either, but would have no problem avoiding those.
- trhway 5y agoHumans generate general 3d representation of the world. You don't know what this object is, yet you see it's borders. Tesla seems to generate understanding only of the objects that it has already seen.
- raverbashing 5y agoAggravating edge cases: you use the feature in an environment where not even 0.01% (optimistically) of drivers will drive
- hu3 5y agoInsurance call: "Sorry you said you crashed on what?"
- verdverm 5y agoThis is why you should use radar and/or lidar, not just cameras...
- sabujp 5y agoare you saying obstacle avoidance is impossible with multiple cameras (yes probably not as robust)? Is it not possible to tell the difference between an image artifact / shadows and actual solid object?
- MBCook 5y agoThe problem with radar is it can’t see up high right? Just low to the ground where the unit is? Based on this video I’m not sure the radar would’ve had anything to catch. It seems like the plane hit the top of the car, not that the car hit the landing gear.
- darth_avocado 5y agoWithout even knowing how their internals work, I can guarantee that the bug in their software is that they don't check for height clearance, because it's not needed in 99.99% of the situations. However, I do think radar should have caught it, because radar has almost like a cone like view in front. If the car was far enough, the cone would've spotted the height.
- tailspin2019 5y agoFurther discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31123074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31123074
- almost_usual 5y agoRich people problems
- amelius 5y agoUntil it crashes into some poor person's car.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoTesla owner’s insurance or the Tesla owner will pay for it, just as would happen in this case. No different than you leaving the parking brake off and the vehicle rolling down the hill into another car or someone’s house.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ceejayoz 5y agoA plane would be well over most folks' car insurance limits.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoWe were talking about other cars, not $3.5M jets, in the subthread. > Until it crashes into some poor person's car. With that said, Tesla or not, you’re going to have a bad time if you hit a private jet with your car at the airport (unless you live in a state where you can just go bankrupt and protect your assets if they attempt to pursue you beyond your insurance limits).
- coolspot 5y agoIt’s not like the whole $3.5MM jet is a write-off. The hull damage and re-certification should be a fraction of the plane cost.
- _s 5y ago
- sabujp 5y agonew feature: auto pushback
- lkxijlewlf 5y agoThat's gonna leave a mark...
- Retric 5y agoI wonder all the different things that needed to fail for this to happen. Smart summon requires someone to hold the button down as they use it. Did they not pay attention or did this fail to stop the car after they let go etc. Why didn’t the car react to the aircraft? Did it not detect it, or did it fail to judge it’s location? Did the car bit notice the collision, or is that ignored by this feature?
- adoxyz 5y agoThe Hold the button down is one way of using Smart Summon and it's not the default way. The default way has the car moving forward until you hit stop or it detects something in the way.
- judge2020 5y agoI think that's just regular 'summon' where it'll only move straight forward or back, which very well might be what's happening in this video, but "smart summon" does require holding a button down on the phone. The original reddit comment[0] only said "someone tried to summon their Tesla". 0: https://old.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/u95dqt/someone_just_crashed_into_a_vision_jet/i5pgkdw/ https://old.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/u95dqt/someone_just...
- cogman10 5y ago"Hold the botton down" IS the default for both summon and smart summon. There is also (and has always been) a shit ton of warnings you have to ignore to use the feature. [1] Here's a particularly applicable warning from the manual. > Smart Summon may not stop for all objects (especially very low objects such as some curbs, or very high objects such as a shelf) and may not react to all traffic. Smart Summon does not recognize the direction of traffic, does not navigate around empty parking spaces, and may not anticipate crossing traffic. I know a lot of people like to dig at tesla, but they really aggressively warn drivers when it comes to using the driver automation. [1] https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/is_is/GUID-6B9A1AEA-579C-400E-A7A6-E4916BCD5DED.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/is_is/GUID-6B9A1AE...
- jdrc 5y agothe only thing that i want self-driving is my roomba
- Victerius 5y agoUntil your Roomba crashes into the landing gear of your $3.5mm private jet.
- jdrc 5y agoit will turn around and find something else to crash on
- dkjaudyeqooe 5y agoA common cause of hull loss in aircraft.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y agoAre you sure about that? Pooptastrophe - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/08/15/pooptastrophe-man-details-night-his-roomba-ran-over-dog-poop/88667704/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/08/15/po...
- outworlder 5y agoNot OP but yes. Newer vacuums also have cameras to avoid this exact issue.
- moooo99 5y agoHaving an autonomous and internet connected vehicle driving through my apartment makes me pretty uneasy.
- nicbou 5y agoMine is running sone firmware (valetudo) that makes it talk to itself and think it's talking to an external API. Even before that, it worked fine without ever being online. This this is a game changer. It's like going from washing dishes to having a dishwasher.
- 2ctJoke 5y agoSend a few Teslas to Ukraine. The need air defence -- could work this way :o)
- nimbius 5y agosummon is the wildest energy. its like handing your keys to a feral racoon on bath salts. i once had to file a claim after a tesla on summon backed out of its parking space and directly over my motorcycle, crushing it against a barrier wall with such unrelenting force it pushed the cylinder head covers into the gas tank. this claim was a real tit spanner because the owners cut-rate insurance company flat-out refused to cover it since the driver wasnt in the car. it took nearly a year of subrogation but mercifully they settled.
- judge2020 5y agoI wonder if they'd refuse to cover damage from their client's car rolling down a hill in neutral, hitting another car, only because the owner wasn't in it.
- noneeeed 5y agoWell that's disturbing. It doesn't bode well for how they are building their self-driving systems. A simple set of ultrasonic reversing sensors would be enough to prevent this.
- judge2020 5y agoThe part of the jet it hit was in the air, the ultrasonic sensors are the main way it avoids hitting non-car objects in Smart Summon, and they have those all around the car.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y agoYou know how at the airport, they have that tug vehicle that pushes the aircraft out from the gate and into the taxiway? I think the person was just trying to use their Tesla in the same way. The plane needed to be turned around, and the Telsa did it. This is actually a feature, not a bug. Instead of having to spool up the jet engine which would burn a lot of fuel and release a lot of CO2, the Tesla with its electric motor, can do it with zero CO2 emissions.
- ProAm 5y agoETA to fix the airplane: 7 weeks. ETA to fix the Tesla: 37 weeks.
- dmitrygr 5y ago7 weeks of MX time plus parts will easily run into 2-or-3-teslas price territory, assuming it is reparable at all. SF50 is one giant fiberglass shape. If you crack it seriously enough, there is no repair possible.
- zionic 5y agoSurprising lack of technical knowledge here about the current state of Tesla self driving. Tesla current has 3 wildly different software stacks: -FSD (invite only beta): this is their latest and greatest that everyone talks about. Surface streets only at the moment. -Highway autopilot: legacy autopilot stack, AFAIK the next big push is to merge the FSD system to take over for highway and surface streets. The existing/public autopilot is years behind the existing FSD closed beta code (again, to the best of my knowledge) -Summon: Ancient tech demo held together with duct tape and bubblegum. It is most definitely not using the new FSD stack and is way behind, since it’s a gimmick feature with low utilization they don’t seem to be in a hurry IMO Tesla should kill the legacy stacks and push hard to get the current (actually quite good) FSD beta stack out to all scenarios.
- zionic 5y agoCan’t edit anymore: for what it’s worth the Tesla in the video was operating on the “summon” stack
- sputknick 5y agoI call shenanigans. I have a Tesla. This would be REALLY hard to pull off. you have to be physically close to the car (like within 60 feet I think), you have to hold down a button, and as soon as the car senses something near it (inches) it shuts down. this is either fake, or set up intentionally done for lulz.
- balls187 5y agoA quick search turns up that Smart Summon has a range of 200 feet, not 60. How is distance between the vehicle and the phone measure, and then provided to the vehicle? Is it possible that the vehicle sensors that are responsible for detecting objects near the vehicle failed? If the sensor didn't fail, how about the control link that shuts the vehicle down? So if anything is near the vehicle, it automatically shuts it down, or just during smart summon?
- sputknick 5y agoyup, good looking out, that's new since I last looked (3-ish years ago), and you are right, the sensors are designed for obstacles on a road, so you could probably miss something suspended 5 feet in the air.
- ShakataGaNai 5y agoIt's possible the tail of the aircraft was just far enough out of the way for the camera to not see it, but still strike the edge of the MY. But I agree, there is still something dubious about this. At the very end of the clip you three people basically stroll into frame. If you're either the owner of a 3.5 million aircraft or a $60k Tesla and they impact each other ... wouldn't you be moving a little more expediently? An "oh shit!" sort of reaction. The Tesla is also going the wrong direction to get to these guys, theoretically. And yea, you gotta hold down the summon button. The Tesla manual even states " remaining ready to release the button to stop the vehicle if needed.". If was summoning my Tesla and saw it headed remotely close to a Plane, I'd probably release the button. Especially after impact. Not keep holding it down so it keeps pushing the plan for another few seconds.
- th3o6a1d 5y agoFriend of mine has a nice scrape across the side of his model 3 where it rubbed up against a pole in a parking garage during summon
- fullstackengr 5y agoI just had a look at the code of this feature. The existing Javascript function for this is just missing an if/else block for airplanes. I should have a fix ready shortly and I should be able push an update to all Teslas in the next few minutes. Nothing to worry, the update will keep airplanes safe. P.S: Anyone know a npm package which has a "isAirplane" function which returns true for airplanes and false for others?
- salawat 5y agoDoes it have to return false for paper airplanes? How about Helicopters? Zepplins?
- iJohnDoe 5y agoWhy would anyone use the summon feature and risk running over someone and killing them?
- krnlpnc 5y agoViral indeed
- Ekaros 5y agoI think your solution is flawed if it can't notice all objects in the box directly front of the vehicle. I would expect that to be one of minimum requirements, does the vehicle try to enter in "holes" smaller than itself.
- lesserknowndan 5y agoPSA. “mm” is not a unit of currency. It is a unit of length - a millimetre. If you want to represent millions of dollars use ‘M’, e.g., $3.5M. I don’t know why people have started willfully using incorrect units, but it has to stop. FFS, just Google it.
- dragonwriter 5y agoIn accounting/finance, m/M has a very long history of being 1,000 units, and mm/MM of being 1,000,000 units (it's not a unit itself, you still need the actual unit, it's effectively a representation of magnitude.) It is starting to be replaced in many contexts (e.g., AP style for financial headlines) by the newer still-not-SI approach where one thousand uses k, one million uses M, and one billion uses B. > I don’t know why people have started willfully using incorrect units They aren't incorrect, just different than SI, which doesn't have units of money. > FFS, just Google it. It's funny, because if you had bothered to take your own advice you would know that this isn't something people recently started doing. Do your research before telling people to do theirs.