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Welcome to 'Le Monde' in English

351 points by aaraujo002 5y ago

geniium 5y ago
French being less French
fmajid 5y ago
Sadly Le Monde is a shadow of its former self. The decline started about 20 years ago.
- TacticalCoder 5y ago
  Totally agree. Back when I worked in print, in the mid nineties, there was always a copy of Le Monde around. I even still own their unique, one-off, "Le Siecle" (aka "The Century") edition (the one they edited on the day we turned into the 21st century). But others in this thread are right: it's certainly not investigative journalism and, to me, it's fucking state sponsored globalist propaganda.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tsavola 5y ago
How about LeMon.de in German?
- MichaelMoser123 5y ago
  i think they downvoted you, because lemon.de is not using ssl ;-)
grenoire 5y ago
Currently Le Monde diplomatique (https://mondediplo.com/ https://mondediplo.com/) is the only world news I'm reading, it's always a joy to get it in the mail, and I really appreciate the quality of journalism and analyses.
- ur-whale 5y ago
  Worth reading inded if you believe in getting different perspectives to get a vague idea of what's really going on. However, fair warning: Le Monde diplomatique is heavily biased reporting.
  - TotempaaltJ 5y ago
    I love LMD, but I have to agree with the bias warning here. LMD makes no effort to be impartial. There are definitely things I strongly disagree with in LMD, and I'm still looking for a similar paper with different opinions in my news consumption.
  - igravious 5y ago
    I mean, what geopolitical conduit isn't this days? And hasn't it ever been thus? Not saying this is a bad thing, or a good thing; that's just the way things are, right?
    - simonh 5y ago
      I don't mind a source having biases in the sense of a lean, everyone has biases. What winds me up is when they knowingly and intentionally skew their reporting not just to reflect that bias but to promote it and radicalise their viewership. Take the BBC for example, they're as close as I can get to a neutral source but even they have a somewhat left wing bias. It's pretty mild though and they do have some somewhat right wing voices. As a moderate right winger I find it absolutely fine and easy to take into account. The Economist is great, and even the Guardian is worth reading from time to time. It's good to know what people with different opinions are thinking and why. I cannot stomach Fox News though. Those people are deranged, it's practically RT for America. The Daily Mail here in the UK is almost as bad, they knowingly and regularly distort climate science data to misrepresent it for example. I'm a climate optimist, but the DM blatantly falsifies results. I still go to their web sites to check out how they are reporting things from time to time, but they're not just right leaning, they're constructing an all out ultraconservative fantasy reality. Maybe I should try the Express or Telegraph, they might reflect my political views better but I can't be bothered. I find a close echo chamber for my own opinions rather boring. The nearest thing I consume to how I think is the Economist but they always keep it interesting with thoughtful analysis of current events and even post mortems when they get things wrong. They also sometimes give air time to opposing views. Maintaining my views while constantly being pulled leftward by at least some of the media I consume to be a constructive dynamic. I don't always agree with them, but at lest I'm well informed on why. For some reason left media tends to be much more centrist these days than right media which is ultra radicalised. Back in my youth it was the other way around. Left media used to be so bonkers it was hilarious, now right media is so bonkers it's terrifying.
kamroot 5y ago
I am glad to see this. It is good to have a diverse set of news sources. Some others that I have consistently used to broaden my perspectives are https://restofworld.org/ https://restofworld.org/ and https://www.aljazeera.com/ https://www.aljazeera.com/
fguerraz 5y ago
Except that Le Monde is not really quality journalism. It is owned by the wealthiest French people, gets government subsidies, and has advertising on it. All of these are fighting against the independence and objectivity of the content. Mediapart, who doesn't have these problems, also has content in English, if you're desperate for a French point of view. Le Monde will only serve you more liberal, globalist propaganda. https://www.mediapart.fr/en/english https://www.mediapart.fr/en/english
- stefanve 5y ago
  yeah do a way with liberalism let us go to populism history teaches us that this is a much better system
  - fguerraz 5y ago
    And these are the only two choices, right?
    - stefanve 5y ago
      communism, stalinism, totalitarianism, feudalism and some others. afc depending on where you live (eg USA) people from EU are living in a communist society ;) Not saying that things can't be improved but most politicians that are railing against liberalism are very much populists
- ur-whale 5y ago
  > Except tha le Monde is not really quality journalism. Agreed, but the other source you mention (Mediapart) is not what I would call quality journalism either, their political bias is intense. I'm likely naive, but in my book, quality journalism is supposed to report facts, as much as they can be established without tainting them with a selection bias and must steer clear of injecting one's opinion in the content produced unless it comes with a truly clear warning ("this is an opinion piece"). Mediapart is profoundly not that.
  - 5y ago
pluc 5y ago
I was surprised at France's "international" (read: English) coverage of the Ukraine war from their state broadcasting France24. https://www.youtube.com/c/FRANCE24English https://www.youtube.com/c/FRANCE24English They've been live and free since at least the start of the conflict: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3MuIUNCCzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3MuIUNCCzI It's interesting to see France cater to anglophones when in Quebec we do the opposite and try to convert as many people to French as possible in order to "protect the French language". You'll never see a French Quebec broadcaster spin up an anglophone version..
- realusername 5y ago
  France24 is kind of alone on its purpose though, it's only meant for international audience and it's not read much domestically
  - JustFinishedBSG 5y ago
    Not entirely true, France Info is basically France24-but-for-France. Most of the coverage is the exact same.
- noarchy 5y ago
  >You'll never see a French Quebec broadcaster spin up an anglophone version.. The dynamics here in Quebec are obviously much different. France is a francophone country, while Quebec is a francophone province within a largely anglophone country. The state media here has long had bilingual offerings. That aside, the French media here in Quebec doesn't really make money. They are kept afloat by government subsidies (this is true of a lot of the English media as well - most get handouts). So spinning off some sort of English version, for multiple reasons, is a non-starter. Besides, if you're an anglophone in places like Montreal or Gatineau, you've got English media anyway.
  - baud147258 5y ago
    > They are kept afloat by government subsidies Most media (that's not already state owned) in France is the same
thriftwy 5y ago
I wonder why they didn't have it previously. What large French news sources/agencies have an English version?
- psychoslave 5y ago
  https://www.afp.com/en/news-hub https://www.afp.com/en/news-hub https://www.france24.com/en/ https://www.france24.com/en/ And otherwise, there is this agregator: https://petrolette.space/#tab-11 https://petrolette.space/#tab-11 (the fragment identifier doesn’t work properly it seems, but you can easily find the "fr" tab on the board)
  - Markoff 5y ago
    There are no news available at AFP website, not sure why you link it.
    - psychoslave 5y ago
      The question was "What large French news sources/agencies have an English version?" AFP stands for "Agence France Presse". The relation seems rather straight forward. Moreover, a few click away from the given link, you can find things like :https://factcheck.afp.com/ https://factcheck.afp.com/ https://www.afp.com/en/inside-afp https://www.afp.com/en/inside-afp
      - Markoff 5y ago
        What's the point of English version if you won't find there any news? None of those two links are news, one is fact checking category with one article per day, the other is some selfpromo about agency. Your answer can be summed with last sentence in old Microsoft joke: A helicopter with a pilot and a single passenger was flying around above Seattle when a malfunction disabled all of the aircraft's navigation and communications equipment. Due to the darkness and haze, the pilot could not determine the helicopter's position and course to get back to the airport. The pilot saw a tall building with lights on and flew toward it, the pilot had the passenger draw a handwritten sign reading, "WHERE AM I?", and hold it up for the building's occupants to see. People in the building quickly responded to the aircraft, drew a large sign, and held it in a building window. Their sign said, "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER." The pilot smiled, waved, looked at his map, determined the course to steer to SEATAC airport, and landed safely. After they were on the ground, the passenger asked the pilot how the "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER" sign helped determine their position. The pilot responded, "I knew that had to be the Microsoft support building, they gave me a technically correct but entirely useless answer."
kreeben 5y ago
>> Get unlimited access to Le Monde in English €2.49/month, cancel anytime >> A Customer who wishes to terminate their contract must print out (or copy on plain paper) ... So, cancel anytime by conveniently printing out and filling in a form then sending it by snail mail to their customer service dept. I think I'll pass. Too bad. https://moncompte.lemonde.fr/cgv-en https://moncompte.lemonde.fr/cgv-en
- r2222 5y ago
  Oh wow. Reminds me of Wall Street Journal where you’d have to change your address to somewhere in California to gain the ability to cancel online. Otherwise you have to call, because only California has laws against such behavior.
  - ulfw 5y ago
    I think you mean the New York Times, where one indeed has to play that game.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      >> Oh wow. Reminds me of Wall Street Journal where you’d have to change your address to somewhere in California to gain the ability to cancel online. Otherwise you have to call, because only California has laws against such behavior. > I think you mean the New York Times, where one indeed has to play that game. All kinds subscription of businesses do this exact same thing or worse, so the answer is probably "both." IIRC, the (large, chain) gym nearby required cancellation either in person or by registered mail. When I complained, their sales guy unbelievably justified it because "they've had problems with people canceling other's memberships." That said, I actually did cancel the New York Times a few years ago, and I don't remember the process being too onerous. Though I'm not allergic to speaking to someone on the phone.
      - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
        I cancelled the NYT through chat, but I'm in the EU so that might have made a difference.
stefanve 5y ago
I was learning French so I could read Le Monde. Kind of a bummer ;)
- StevePerkins 5y ago
  I doubt they will cease publication.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Don't waste your French reading stuff like that. Not only are they passable journalists, their prose isn't even nice to read.
  - dimillian 5y ago
    lol. Better read 20 minutes right?
    - baud147258 5y ago
      Better than 20 minutes isn't a high bar to pass
- darkteflon 5y ago
  Le Monde Diplo is still great. And hey - there’s an absolutely superb French literary canon to explore. imo that’s reason enough to learn - assuming you’re interested.
ElDji 5y ago
https://www.mediapart.fr/en/ https://www.mediapart.fr/en/
guerby 5y ago
https://www.france24.com/en/live https://www.france24.com/en/live
- ekianjo 5y ago
  which is the mouth of the French government. You'd probably want to pass on that if you want any objective news.
  - realusername 5y ago
    Not really, France24 is the more the voice of the French language community, it does not have the same vision as the French government. It has its own bias of course but different ones.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    State media != state propaganda. It's financed by the State but there's no editorial oversight, just a coloration that's inerantly due to the culture it exists in. It's far more similar to DW or Al Jazeera than it is to RT.
billfruit 5y ago
Is there a list of prominent English language newspapers from each country? Like: UK: Times/Guardian US: NYT/WP Australia: The Australian Singapore: Straits Times HongKong : SCMP Pakistan: Dawn India: Hindu Nigeria: Guardian Nigeria
- pimterry 5y ago
  Spain: https://english.elpais.com/ https://english.elpais.com/
  - Markoff 5y ago
    newest article in Spain section there is from more than one month ago, I would not call that news source on Spain, even day old would be pretty lazy for English edition, but this seems to be pretty dead for someone interested in Spain
- jug 5y ago
  I think Politico.eu is also pretty good for EU coverage. Headquartered in Brussels, Belgium with additional offices in London, Berlin, Paris.
  - arlort 5y ago
    To qualify, politico.eu is pretty good for news about the EU, as in the EU institutions and EU politics I'm not sure I'd suggest it for general purpose news about EU member states. It has some stuff but it's not really their focus
- Gadiguibou 5y ago
  For the Arab world: Al Jazeera. For Canada: CBC/Radio-Canada (the french speaking side) Although more news oriented, my favorite sources for quality information in the US are the associated press (AP News) and Reuters.
  - incomingpain 5y ago
zahma 5y ago
I welcome the addition of different stories, but considering Le Monde already tries to copy the New York Times in style and content, I'm not sure of the value proposition or the real addition of diverse stories. A French take translated into English from the original but with some inevitable delay and potential diminished nuance? Or just more clickbait titles with lists and explainers. Hmm... The NyT already has direct lines to a virtually unlimited number of French thinkers and experts from the leading universities, so for anyone who can't read French, you can find solid coverage due to the American obsession with whatever happens in France.
pjbeam 5y ago
I am curious which topics are > "too French" for translation into the English language edition.
- jug 5y ago
  Yes and these ironically sounds like the most interesting pieces to complement international media.
phtrivier 5y ago
This is a curious move. I don't know if the board expect Americans to be really that interested into the depth of local french politics (I supposed late night comedians would have a ball commenting on Jean Lassale's speeches, but would it really get an audience ?) ; or if they think they can provide a different take on world events - but I honestly don't see any difference between their editorial line and that of The Guardian, The Economist or the NYT. (And I don't have any particular problem with those lines, they're legitimate and debatable and not exactly subtle or contrary to the reader's interests.) I wonder if they'll translate the "Décodeurs" section, which kinda brought the "fact checking" thing to France, for better or for worse. The original editor in chief for this section burnt out after one too many twitter mob shitstorm, and wrote a very nice "report from the trenches" book about social networks madness [1] [1] https://livre.fnac.com/a15174266/Samuel-Laurent-J-ai-vu-naitre-le-monstre-Twitter-va-t-il-tuer-la-democratie https://livre.fnac.com/a15174266/Samuel-Laurent-J-ai-vu-nait...
- ramayac 5y ago
  I'm not American, and I'm part of their target :)
- asutekku 5y ago
  English is the lingua franca, just because something is published in english does not mean it's necessarily targeted towards only Americans.
- some-human 5y ago
  Why the assumption that it's for an American audience? It's probably more for a boarder European market, rather than Americans. The great thing about the French, British, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Polish, etc, is that most of them understand English. This way they don't have to translate it into several languages, when just one will suffice.
  - phtrivier 5y ago
    As I stated elsewhere, I agree that the assumption of American audience was misplaced. My bad. That being said, I'm going to counter on the idea that _most_ Germans, Italians ... understand English. It's certainly true that the _subset_ of Europeans targeted by Le Monde (affluent, educated, europhile, pro-business-yet-socialy-left-of-center) does. So the move is less strange if you assume they're trying to compete with "The Guardian" or "The Economist". I still wonder if they hope to compete with the New York Times or Washington Post. Also, it's a bit disheartening that they decided to react to accusations like "you're too Parisians, you're out of touch with the real country, you're globalist who don't understand the troubles of real people" with such a "hold my overpriced wine, I'm going starting a world domination plan" move. We already have a media concentration problem in France ; if all national papers start catering to the exact same globish audience, it will just make sense to stop having them altogether and just assume everyone will read the NYT, maybe with an adapted sport section (maybe not.) Not good for local news.
rdmreader3319 5y ago
Please, don't waste your time reading Le Monde. Check the owners and the people on the board (one of them started as a pornographer), and you will get the spirit of this propaganda state sponsored machine.
- InCityDreams 5y ago
  Whats wrong with "starting as a pornographer?" Or even [currently, if applicable] being one?
macinjosh 5y ago
they spelled lemonade wrong.
photochemsyn 5y ago
You can just feed the French version through Google Translate.
historia_novae 5y ago
Fake news now in English... For anyone not familiar with the French version, Le Monde, at least in its digital incarnation, is pure state/oligarch propaganda. Each and every article and editorial is published to push a narrative, the same you heard on other channels (public TV and radion, etc.) anyway. Don't waste your time reading it or even spending money on it. Their section Les décodeurs ("fact"-"checking") is even most specialized in the twisting of facts and reality to reach a predetermined conclusion. It's a little less obvious than Kremlin's propaganda, but only slightly. The only use I have for this newspaper, which I consult a few times a week, is getting informed of what the government and CAC40 top's CEOs want me to think, then I think the reverse.
- Zopieux 5y ago
  what the fuck are you talking about
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
throwme_123 5y ago
Just to inform our non-French friends here, here is what you should know about the strong political bias in the French press. - Le Monde is a left-wing media, and most articles are heavily slanted towards socialist themes and PoV, - The equivalent right-wing media (which Le Monde readers obviously call "fascists", the woke sensor is not very precise these days) is called Le Figaro https://lefigaro.fr https://lefigaro.fr Some of the comments praise Le Monde Diplomatique, but this one is full speed communist and anti-capitalist. Its far right equivalent is Valeurs Actuelles. Happy reading!
- Broussebar 5y ago
  Le monde is considered more of a center media in france, it's true in the other hand the Le Monde Diplomatique or l'humanité [1] are left-wing medias. Now saying that Valeurs Actuelles is the far right equivalent of Le monde diplo isn't fair. Valeurs Actuelles is the French equivalent of Fox news, politic aside the quality of the articles is usually very low. [1] https://www.humanite.fr/ https://www.humanite.fr/
  - nicoco 5y ago
    >Valeurs Actuelles is the far right equivalent of Le monde diplo isn't fair. Le monde diplo often has long, dense articles written by scholars, in an almost academic style, with lots of references; plus they absolutely do not try to hide that they are expressing a critical/radical left point of view. Valeurs actuelles on the other hand will publish anything without the bare minimum cross-checking: https://www.midilibre.fr/2021/03/31/separatisme-valeurs-actuelles-piege-par-un-faux-professeur-la-fausse-information-qui-enflamme-twitter-9460503.php https://www.midilibre.fr/2021/03/31/separatisme-valeurs-actu...
- nicoco 5y ago
  Well, to me le monde belongs to moderate right-wing media, or at the very least enlightened centrism. It all depends on how left or right-leaning you feel I guess.
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Chalbroth 5y ago
[dead]
Broussebar 5y ago
If you are looking for a good and independant French newspaper I can really recommend Mediapart[1], they also offer an english version for some of their articles. [1] https://www.mediapart.fr/en/english https://www.mediapart.fr/en/english
- gordian-mind 5y ago
  Isn't that media just a laundering machine for foreign intelligence reports? Its founder Edwy Plenel has had access to state-level scandals out of nowhere for more than 30 years now, first and foremost the Rainbow Warrior case. He was also Le Monde's director for 10 years, so... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
  - karambahh 5y ago
    AFAIK Plenel sources for Rainbow Warrior were french intelligence. He got completely sidelined on the "Irlandais de Vincennes" story (which in a way is proof he's not a foreign intelligence puppet, otherwise he wouldn't have fell for it, would he?). Anyways, Plenel aside, I'd happy if you could point out any Mediapart story that you think has been sourced or set up by foreign intelligence agencies? I've frequently heard Mediapart is biased in a way or another (recently accused of bias by Melenchon supporters, before by LREM, Les Republicains, Front National, etc...) but absolutely never read anywhere that they are a puppet from a foreign intelligence agency. In a nutshell, please substantiate your baseless claim.
    - gordian-mind 5y ago
      > (which in a way is proof he's not a foreign intelligence puppet, otherwise he wouldn't have fell for it, would he?) Nope, not at all. Did someone say "puppet" here? I'm pretty sure everyone understands how people can have beneficial cooperation and coordination behind the scenes to reach their goals, without being in such an one-dimensional relation. > In a nutshell, please substantiate your baseless claim. It's just my reading between the lines of 40 years of active confrontation with french intelligence and using information provided by well-protected leakers (intelligence leaks, police report leaks, judicial leaks etc.). It's pretty wild truly.
blacksqr 5y ago
Hello, World!
myself248 5y ago
Well, I can't click "english" until I accept a cookie popup in French, so that's great.
- deleted 5y ago
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Broussebar 5y ago
Le monde diplomatique created an chart showing the owners of main French medias (in French unfortunately)[1], the data is available on their Github account[2]. [1] https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/PPA https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/PPA [2] https://github.com/mdiplo/Medias_francais https://github.com/mdiplo/Medias_francais
- skywal_l 5y ago
  To be able to know who owns what (critically but not only in the media) should be the basis of every democracy.
marstall 5y ago
this article is tough sledding https://www.lemonde.fr/en/food-wine/article/2022/04/06/arnaud-donckele-awarded-three-michelin-stars-for-plenitude_5979806_41.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/food-wine/article/2022/04/06/arnau... Does the French version offer as laborious a ride to the end of the paragraph?
- marstall 5y ago
  nb: pushed my way through the French version. it sparkles. night and day. https://www.lemonde.fr/le-monde-passe-a-table/article/2022/03/22/arnaud-donckele-aureole-de-trois-etoiles-michelin-pour-plenitude_6118655_6082232.html https://www.lemonde.fr/le-monde-passe-a-table/article/2022/0...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bedane 5y ago
le monde is oligarchy-owned garbage le monde diplomatique and mediapart are a lot more independent, and (maybe correlated) leaning a lot more on the left
- dev-3892 5y ago
  how would you assess le monde relative to the new york times?
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    LeMonde has the French point of view, the NewYorkTimes has the USA one. You should probably read both once in a while. I'm French and I think the NewYorkTimes tends to see everything with the USA point of view, and sometimes totally fails to understand and explain correctly. See this article from The Guardian for example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/16/macron-france-foreign-media-new-york-times https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/16/macron-france-... But LeMonde is perhaps a bit too French regarding some events such as the African wars involving France. So having the USA point of view can be useful too.
dev-3892 5y ago
so much hate for le monde in these comments! While I'm probably too familiar with US politics, I'm not familiar enough with French politics to know what it means when a french person says "globalist propaganda". In US terminology, whoever says "globalist propaganda" also says "I don't believe Trump lost the election in 2020". The comments who say this make me think that, probably, le monde is an excellent publication. There are other comments that say le monde is 'oligarchy-owned' and then suggest publications that take a more left-leaning stance. This makes me think le Monde is kind of like the New York Times. In general, they know who buys their papers, but the journalism (journalism! - the opinion pages are not journalism by definition) that the NYT does is largely good. It gets the facts and it prints them, holds their own to a high standard, and does a thorough job. Politically, the NYT pisses off the left and the right on the regular. Does le Monde do that too? Are the vocal advocates against le Monde trying to say 'go further into an echo chamber', or are there legitimate criticisms about the process of reporting that le Monde engages in? Do they get the facts wrong often or go to press too early with a story regularly? Apparently the 90's-early 00's was a good time for le Monde -- that happens to be when I knew about it. What has happened since?
- fransje26 5y ago
  Let's say that in the past they used to have a very clear left-wing bias, but, within that bias, the quality of their news was excellent. And they were independent. Now, they are no longer independent (the 90's and 00's good days are over..), and you can kind of feel the nonsense they are trying to push down your throat. It's not blatantly wrong, let's say, but it is a more often than not a one-side view aligned with government lines. For instance, somebody else mentioned a bit higher that they have a "fact-checking" column that was actually a piece of fact-twisting rubbish. And although they are not peddling lies there, per se, it is very "coincidental" that the "true" view being presented there as facts is always aligned with the global trending (government) narrative and other views are dismissed. It doesn't mean that they are twisting facts, as what conspiracy theorists denounce as the "global narrative" is, I believe, more often than not aligned with the facts, but it's very suspicious that a "dissident" point of view never shows up in those articles. It's the job of a true, high-quality journalist to look far beyond the facts being presented, to understand if they can be taken at face value or if, perhaps, the non-obvious or non-dominant narrative should be put forward instead. And unfortunately that's not something Le Monde can be relied on anymore. (As recent examples of "alternative facts" that have been dismissed a bit too quickly recently, one could put forward the Biden laptop hard-drive saga or the lab-made Covid story.. Both are stories with fascinating implications if they turn out to be true, and that warrants hard journalistic questions to be asked..) In France, if you want interesting news, you have to rely on Mediapart and Le Canard enchaîné. If you just want to keep up with what is happening in the country, Le Monde will do.
sneeze-slayer 5y ago
Very cool. It is always nice to read foreign newspapers to get a slightly different take or opinion on topics. I am quite happy that it is only 2,49€/month for a digital subscription. I considered subscribing to a German newspaper or two, but their digital prices are quite high, often coming in at 10+€/month. NYTimes is only $4/month, but I imagine their subscriber count is higher.

351 points by aaraujo002 5y ago

geniium 5y ago

French being less French

fmajid 5y ago

Sadly Le Monde is a shadow of its former self. The decline started about 20 years ago.

TacticalCoder 5y ago
Totally agree. Back when I worked in print, in the mid nineties, there was always a copy of Le Monde around. I even still own their unique, one-off, "Le Siecle" (aka "The Century") edition (the one they edited on the day we turned into the 21st century). But others in this thread are right: it's certainly not investigative journalism and, to me, it's fucking state sponsored globalist propaganda.
deleted 5y ago
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tsavola 5y ago

How about LeMon.de in German?

MichaelMoser123 5y ago
i think they downvoted you, because lemon.de is not using ssl ;-)

grenoire 5y ago

Currently Le Monde diplomatique (https://mondediplo.com/ https://mondediplo.com/) is the only world news I'm reading, it's always a joy to get it in the mail, and I really appreciate the quality of journalism and analyses.

ur-whale 5y ago
Worth reading inded if you believe in getting different perspectives to get a vague idea of what's really going on. However, fair warning: Le Monde diplomatique is heavily biased reporting.
- TotempaaltJ 5y ago
  I love LMD, but I have to agree with the bias warning here. LMD makes no effort to be impartial. There are definitely things I strongly disagree with in LMD, and I'm still looking for a similar paper with different opinions in my news consumption.
- igravious 5y ago
  I mean, what geopolitical conduit isn't this days? And hasn't it ever been thus? Not saying this is a bad thing, or a good thing; that's just the way things are, right?
  - simonh 5y ago
    I don't mind a source having biases in the sense of a lean, everyone has biases. What winds me up is when they knowingly and intentionally skew their reporting not just to reflect that bias but to promote it and radicalise their viewership. Take the BBC for example, they're as close as I can get to a neutral source but even they have a somewhat left wing bias. It's pretty mild though and they do have some somewhat right wing voices. As a moderate right winger I find it absolutely fine and easy to take into account. The Economist is great, and even the Guardian is worth reading from time to time. It's good to know what people with different opinions are thinking and why. I cannot stomach Fox News though. Those people are deranged, it's practically RT for America. The Daily Mail here in the UK is almost as bad, they knowingly and regularly distort climate science data to misrepresent it for example. I'm a climate optimist, but the DM blatantly falsifies results. I still go to their web sites to check out how they are reporting things from time to time, but they're not just right leaning, they're constructing an all out ultraconservative fantasy reality. Maybe I should try the Express or Telegraph, they might reflect my political views better but I can't be bothered. I find a close echo chamber for my own opinions rather boring. The nearest thing I consume to how I think is the Economist but they always keep it interesting with thoughtful analysis of current events and even post mortems when they get things wrong. They also sometimes give air time to opposing views. Maintaining my views while constantly being pulled leftward by at least some of the media I consume to be a constructive dynamic. I don't always agree with them, but at lest I'm well informed on why. For some reason left media tends to be much more centrist these days than right media which is ultra radicalised. Back in my youth it was the other way around. Left media used to be so bonkers it was hilarious, now right media is so bonkers it's terrifying.

kamroot 5y ago

I am glad to see this. It is good to have a diverse set of news sources. Some others that I have consistently used to broaden my perspectives are https://restofworld.org/ https://restofworld.org/ and https://www.aljazeera.com/ https://www.aljazeera.com/

fguerraz 5y ago

Except that Le Monde is not really quality journalism. It is owned by the wealthiest French people, gets government subsidies, and has advertising on it. All of these are fighting against the independence and objectivity of the content. Mediapart, who doesn't have these problems, also has content in English, if you're desperate for a French point of view. Le Monde will only serve you more liberal, globalist propaganda. https://www.mediapart.fr/en/english https://www.mediapart.fr/en/english

stefanve 5y ago
yeah do a way with liberalism let us go to populism history teaches us that this is a much better system
- fguerraz 5y ago
  And these are the only two choices, right?
  - stefanve 5y ago
    communism, stalinism, totalitarianism, feudalism and some others. afc depending on where you live (eg USA) people from EU are living in a communist society ;) Not saying that things can't be improved but most politicians that are railing against liberalism are very much populists
ur-whale 5y ago
> Except tha le Monde is not really quality journalism. Agreed, but the other source you mention (Mediapart) is not what I would call quality journalism either, their political bias is intense. I'm likely naive, but in my book, quality journalism is supposed to report facts, as much as they can be established without tainting them with a selection bias and must steer clear of injecting one's opinion in the content produced unless it comes with a truly clear warning ("this is an opinion piece"). Mediapart is profoundly not that.
- 5y ago

pluc 5y ago

I was surprised at France's "international" (read: English) coverage of the Ukraine war from their state broadcasting France24. https://www.youtube.com/c/FRANCE24English https://www.youtube.com/c/FRANCE24English They've been live and free since at least the start of the conflict: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3MuIUNCCzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3MuIUNCCzI It's interesting to see France cater to anglophones when in Quebec we do the opposite and try to convert as many people to French as possible in order to "protect the French language". You'll never see a French Quebec broadcaster spin up an anglophone version..

realusername 5y ago
France24 is kind of alone on its purpose though, it's only meant for international audience and it's not read much domestically
- JustFinishedBSG 5y ago
  Not entirely true, France Info is basically France24-but-for-France. Most of the coverage is the exact same.
noarchy 5y ago
>You'll never see a French Quebec broadcaster spin up an anglophone version.. The dynamics here in Quebec are obviously much different. France is a francophone country, while Quebec is a francophone province within a largely anglophone country. The state media here has long had bilingual offerings. That aside, the French media here in Quebec doesn't really make money. They are kept afloat by government subsidies (this is true of a lot of the English media as well - most get handouts). So spinning off some sort of English version, for multiple reasons, is a non-starter. Besides, if you're an anglophone in places like Montreal or Gatineau, you've got English media anyway.
- baud147258 5y ago
  > They are kept afloat by government subsidies Most media (that's not already state owned) in France is the same

thriftwy 5y ago

I wonder why they didn't have it previously. What large French news sources/agencies have an English version?

psychoslave 5y ago
https://www.afp.com/en/news-hub https://www.afp.com/en/news-hub https://www.france24.com/en/ https://www.france24.com/en/ And otherwise, there is this agregator: https://petrolette.space/#tab-11 https://petrolette.space/#tab-11 (the fragment identifier doesn’t work properly it seems, but you can easily find the "fr" tab on the board)
- Markoff 5y ago
  There are no news available at AFP website, not sure why you link it.
  - psychoslave 5y ago
    The question was "What large French news sources/agencies have an English version?" AFP stands for "Agence France Presse". The relation seems rather straight forward. Moreover, a few click away from the given link, you can find things like :https://factcheck.afp.com/ https://factcheck.afp.com/ https://www.afp.com/en/inside-afp https://www.afp.com/en/inside-afp
    - Markoff 5y ago
      What's the point of English version if you won't find there any news? None of those two links are news, one is fact checking category with one article per day, the other is some selfpromo about agency. Your answer can be summed with last sentence in old Microsoft joke: A helicopter with a pilot and a single passenger was flying around above Seattle when a malfunction disabled all of the aircraft's navigation and communications equipment. Due to the darkness and haze, the pilot could not determine the helicopter's position and course to get back to the airport. The pilot saw a tall building with lights on and flew toward it, the pilot had the passenger draw a handwritten sign reading, "WHERE AM I?", and hold it up for the building's occupants to see. People in the building quickly responded to the aircraft, drew a large sign, and held it in a building window. Their sign said, "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER." The pilot smiled, waved, looked at his map, determined the course to steer to SEATAC airport, and landed safely. After they were on the ground, the passenger asked the pilot how the "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER" sign helped determine their position. The pilot responded, "I knew that had to be the Microsoft support building, they gave me a technically correct but entirely useless answer."

kreeben 5y ago

>> Get unlimited access to Le Monde in English €2.49/month, cancel anytime >> A Customer who wishes to terminate their contract must print out (or copy on plain paper) ... So, cancel anytime by conveniently printing out and filling in a form then sending it by snail mail to their customer service dept. I think I'll pass. Too bad. https://moncompte.lemonde.fr/cgv-en https://moncompte.lemonde.fr/cgv-en

r2222 5y ago
Oh wow. Reminds me of Wall Street Journal where you’d have to change your address to somewhere in California to gain the ability to cancel online. Otherwise you have to call, because only California has laws against such behavior.
- ulfw 5y ago
  I think you mean the New York Times, where one indeed has to play that game.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    >> Oh wow. Reminds me of Wall Street Journal where you’d have to change your address to somewhere in California to gain the ability to cancel online. Otherwise you have to call, because only California has laws against such behavior. > I think you mean the New York Times, where one indeed has to play that game. All kinds subscription of businesses do this exact same thing or worse, so the answer is probably "both." IIRC, the (large, chain) gym nearby required cancellation either in person or by registered mail. When I complained, their sales guy unbelievably justified it because "they've had problems with people canceling other's memberships." That said, I actually did cancel the New York Times a few years ago, and I don't remember the process being too onerous. Though I'm not allergic to speaking to someone on the phone.
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      I cancelled the NYT through chat, but I'm in the EU so that might have made a difference.

stefanve 5y ago

I was learning French so I could read Le Monde. Kind of a bummer ;)

StevePerkins 5y ago
I doubt they will cease publication.
ekianjo 5y ago
Don't waste your French reading stuff like that. Not only are they passable journalists, their prose isn't even nice to read.
- dimillian 5y ago
  lol. Better read 20 minutes right?
  - baud147258 5y ago
    Better than 20 minutes isn't a high bar to pass
darkteflon 5y ago
Le Monde Diplo is still great. And hey - there’s an absolutely superb French literary canon to explore. imo that’s reason enough to learn - assuming you’re interested.

ElDji 5y ago

https://www.mediapart.fr/en/ https://www.mediapart.fr/en/

guerby 5y ago

https://www.france24.com/en/live https://www.france24.com/en/live

ekianjo 5y ago
which is the mouth of the French government. You'd probably want to pass on that if you want any objective news.
- realusername 5y ago
  Not really, France24 is the more the voice of the French language community, it does not have the same vision as the French government. It has its own bias of course but different ones.
- Bayart 5y ago
  State media != state propaganda. It's financed by the State but there's no editorial oversight, just a coloration that's inerantly due to the culture it exists in. It's far more similar to DW or Al Jazeera than it is to RT.

billfruit 5y ago

Is there a list of prominent English language newspapers from each country? Like: UK: Times/Guardian US: NYT/WP Australia: The Australian Singapore: Straits Times HongKong : SCMP Pakistan: Dawn India: Hindu Nigeria: Guardian Nigeria

pimterry 5y ago
Spain: https://english.elpais.com/ https://english.elpais.com/
- Markoff 5y ago
  newest article in Spain section there is from more than one month ago, I would not call that news source on Spain, even day old would be pretty lazy for English edition, but this seems to be pretty dead for someone interested in Spain
jug 5y ago
I think Politico.eu is also pretty good for EU coverage. Headquartered in Brussels, Belgium with additional offices in London, Berlin, Paris.
- arlort 5y ago
  To qualify, politico.eu is pretty good for news about the EU, as in the EU institutions and EU politics I'm not sure I'd suggest it for general purpose news about EU member states. It has some stuff but it's not really their focus
Gadiguibou 5y ago
For the Arab world: Al Jazeera. For Canada: CBC/Radio-Canada (the french speaking side) Although more news oriented, my favorite sources for quality information in the US are the associated press (AP News) and Reuters.
- incomingpain 5y ago

zahma 5y ago

I welcome the addition of different stories, but considering Le Monde already tries to copy the New York Times in style and content, I'm not sure of the value proposition or the real addition of diverse stories. A French take translated into English from the original but with some inevitable delay and potential diminished nuance? Or just more clickbait titles with lists and explainers. Hmm... The NyT already has direct lines to a virtually unlimited number of French thinkers and experts from the leading universities, so for anyone who can't read French, you can find solid coverage due to the American obsession with whatever happens in France.

pjbeam 5y ago

I am curious which topics are > "too French" for translation into the English language edition.

jug 5y ago
Yes and these ironically sounds like the most interesting pieces to complement international media.

phtrivier 5y ago

This is a curious move. I don't know if the board expect Americans to be really that interested into the depth of local french politics (I supposed late night comedians would have a ball commenting on Jean Lassale's speeches, but would it really get an audience ?) ; or if they think they can provide a different take on world events - but I honestly don't see any difference between their editorial line and that of The Guardian, The Economist or the NYT. (And I don't have any particular problem with those lines, they're legitimate and debatable and not exactly subtle or contrary to the reader's interests.) I wonder if they'll translate the "Décodeurs" section, which kinda brought the "fact checking" thing to France, for better or for worse. The original editor in chief for this section burnt out after one too many twitter mob shitstorm, and wrote a very nice "report from the trenches" book about social networks madness [1] [1] https://livre.fnac.com/a15174266/Samuel-Laurent-J-ai-vu-naitre-le-monstre-Twitter-va-t-il-tuer-la-democratie https://livre.fnac.com/a15174266/Samuel-Laurent-J-ai-vu-nait...

ramayac 5y ago
I'm not American, and I'm part of their target :)
asutekku 5y ago
English is the lingua franca, just because something is published in english does not mean it's necessarily targeted towards only Americans.
some-human 5y ago
Why the assumption that it's for an American audience? It's probably more for a boarder European market, rather than Americans. The great thing about the French, British, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Polish, etc, is that most of them understand English. This way they don't have to translate it into several languages, when just one will suffice.
- phtrivier 5y ago
  As I stated elsewhere, I agree that the assumption of American audience was misplaced. My bad. That being said, I'm going to counter on the idea that _most_ Germans, Italians ... understand English. It's certainly true that the _subset_ of Europeans targeted by Le Monde (affluent, educated, europhile, pro-business-yet-socialy-left-of-center) does. So the move is less strange if you assume they're trying to compete with "The Guardian" or "The Economist". I still wonder if they hope to compete with the New York Times or Washington Post. Also, it's a bit disheartening that they decided to react to accusations like "you're too Parisians, you're out of touch with the real country, you're globalist who don't understand the troubles of real people" with such a "hold my overpriced wine, I'm going starting a world domination plan" move. We already have a media concentration problem in France ; if all national papers start catering to the exact same globish audience, it will just make sense to stop having them altogether and just assume everyone will read the NYT, maybe with an adapted sport section (maybe not.) Not good for local news.

rdmreader3319 5y ago

Please, don't waste your time reading Le Monde. Check the owners and the people on the board (one of them started as a pornographer), and you will get the spirit of this propaganda state sponsored machine.

InCityDreams 5y ago
Whats wrong with "starting as a pornographer?" Or even [currently, if applicable] being one?

macinjosh 5y ago

they spelled lemonade wrong.

photochemsyn 5y ago

You can just feed the French version through Google Translate.

historia_novae 5y ago

Fake news now in English... For anyone not familiar with the French version, Le Monde, at least in its digital incarnation, is pure state/oligarch propaganda. Each and every article and editorial is published to push a narrative, the same you heard on other channels (public TV and radion, etc.) anyway. Don't waste your time reading it or even spending money on it. Their section Les décodeurs ("fact"-"checking") is even most specialized in the twisting of facts and reality to reach a predetermined conclusion. It's a little less obvious than Kremlin's propaganda, but only slightly. The only use I have for this newspaper, which I consult a few times a week, is getting informed of what the government and CAC40 top's CEOs want me to think, then I think the reverse.

Zopieux 5y ago
what the fuck are you talking about
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throwme_123 5y ago

Just to inform our non-French friends here, here is what you should know about the strong political bias in the French press. - Le Monde is a left-wing media, and most articles are heavily slanted towards socialist themes and PoV, - The equivalent right-wing media (which Le Monde readers obviously call "fascists", the woke sensor is not very precise these days) is called Le Figaro https://lefigaro.fr https://lefigaro.fr Some of the comments praise Le Monde Diplomatique, but this one is full speed communist and anti-capitalist. Its far right equivalent is Valeurs Actuelles. Happy reading!

Broussebar 5y ago
Le monde is considered more of a center media in france, it's true in the other hand the Le Monde Diplomatique or l'humanité [1] are left-wing medias. Now saying that Valeurs Actuelles is the far right equivalent of Le monde diplo isn't fair. Valeurs Actuelles is the French equivalent of Fox news, politic aside the quality of the articles is usually very low. [1] https://www.humanite.fr/ https://www.humanite.fr/
- nicoco 5y ago
  >Valeurs Actuelles is the far right equivalent of Le monde diplo isn't fair. Le monde diplo often has long, dense articles written by scholars, in an almost academic style, with lots of references; plus they absolutely do not try to hide that they are expressing a critical/radical left point of view. Valeurs actuelles on the other hand will publish anything without the bare minimum cross-checking: https://www.midilibre.fr/2021/03/31/separatisme-valeurs-actuelles-piege-par-un-faux-professeur-la-fausse-information-qui-enflamme-twitter-9460503.php https://www.midilibre.fr/2021/03/31/separatisme-valeurs-actu...
nicoco 5y ago
Well, to me le monde belongs to moderate right-wing media, or at the very least enlightened centrism. It all depends on how left or right-leaning you feel I guess.

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Chalbroth 5y ago

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Broussebar 5y ago

If you are looking for a good and independant French newspaper I can really recommend Mediapart[1], they also offer an english version for some of their articles. [1] https://www.mediapart.fr/en/english https://www.mediapart.fr/en/english

gordian-mind 5y ago
Isn't that media just a laundering machine for foreign intelligence reports? Its founder Edwy Plenel has had access to state-level scandals out of nowhere for more than 30 years now, first and foremost the Rainbow Warrior case. He was also Le Monde's director for 10 years, so... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
- karambahh 5y ago
  AFAIK Plenel sources for Rainbow Warrior were french intelligence. He got completely sidelined on the "Irlandais de Vincennes" story (which in a way is proof he's not a foreign intelligence puppet, otherwise he wouldn't have fell for it, would he?). Anyways, Plenel aside, I'd happy if you could point out any Mediapart story that you think has been sourced or set up by foreign intelligence agencies? I've frequently heard Mediapart is biased in a way or another (recently accused of bias by Melenchon supporters, before by LREM, Les Republicains, Front National, etc...) but absolutely never read anywhere that they are a puppet from a foreign intelligence agency. In a nutshell, please substantiate your baseless claim.
  - gordian-mind 5y ago
    > (which in a way is proof he's not a foreign intelligence puppet, otherwise he wouldn't have fell for it, would he?) Nope, not at all. Did someone say "puppet" here? I'm pretty sure everyone understands how people can have beneficial cooperation and coordination behind the scenes to reach their goals, without being in such an one-dimensional relation. > In a nutshell, please substantiate your baseless claim. It's just my reading between the lines of 40 years of active confrontation with french intelligence and using information provided by well-protected leakers (intelligence leaks, police report leaks, judicial leaks etc.). It's pretty wild truly.

blacksqr 5y ago

Hello, World!

myself248 5y ago

Well, I can't click "english" until I accept a cookie popup in French, so that's great.

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Broussebar 5y ago

Le monde diplomatique created an chart showing the owners of main French medias (in French unfortunately)[1], the data is available on their Github account[2]. [1] https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/PPA https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/PPA [2] https://github.com/mdiplo/Medias_francais https://github.com/mdiplo/Medias_francais

skywal_l 5y ago
To be able to know who owns what (critically but not only in the media) should be the basis of every democracy.

marstall 5y ago

this article is tough sledding https://www.lemonde.fr/en/food-wine/article/2022/04/06/arnaud-donckele-awarded-three-michelin-stars-for-plenitude_5979806_41.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/food-wine/article/2022/04/06/arnau... Does the French version offer as laborious a ride to the end of the paragraph?

marstall 5y ago
nb: pushed my way through the French version. it sparkles. night and day. https://www.lemonde.fr/le-monde-passe-a-table/article/2022/03/22/arnaud-donckele-aureole-de-trois-etoiles-michelin-pour-plenitude_6118655_6082232.html https://www.lemonde.fr/le-monde-passe-a-table/article/2022/0...
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bedane 5y ago

le monde is oligarchy-owned garbage le monde diplomatique and mediapart are a lot more independent, and (maybe correlated) leaning a lot more on the left

dev-3892 5y ago
how would you assess le monde relative to the new york times?
- speedgoose 5y ago
  LeMonde has the French point of view, the NewYorkTimes has the USA one. You should probably read both once in a while. I'm French and I think the NewYorkTimes tends to see everything with the USA point of view, and sometimes totally fails to understand and explain correctly. See this article from The Guardian for example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/16/macron-france-foreign-media-new-york-times https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/16/macron-france-... But LeMonde is perhaps a bit too French regarding some events such as the African wars involving France. So having the USA point of view can be useful too.

dev-3892 5y ago

so much hate for le monde in these comments! While I'm probably too familiar with US politics, I'm not familiar enough with French politics to know what it means when a french person says "globalist propaganda". In US terminology, whoever says "globalist propaganda" also says "I don't believe Trump lost the election in 2020". The comments who say this make me think that, probably, le monde is an excellent publication. There are other comments that say le monde is 'oligarchy-owned' and then suggest publications that take a more left-leaning stance. This makes me think le Monde is kind of like the New York Times. In general, they know who buys their papers, but the journalism (journalism! - the opinion pages are not journalism by definition) that the NYT does is largely good. It gets the facts and it prints them, holds their own to a high standard, and does a thorough job. Politically, the NYT pisses off the left and the right on the regular. Does le Monde do that too? Are the vocal advocates against le Monde trying to say 'go further into an echo chamber', or are there legitimate criticisms about the process of reporting that le Monde engages in? Do they get the facts wrong often or go to press too early with a story regularly? Apparently the 90's-early 00's was a good time for le Monde -- that happens to be when I knew about it. What has happened since?

fransje26 5y ago
Let's say that in the past they used to have a very clear left-wing bias, but, within that bias, the quality of their news was excellent. And they were independent. Now, they are no longer independent (the 90's and 00's good days are over..), and you can kind of feel the nonsense they are trying to push down your throat. It's not blatantly wrong, let's say, but it is a more often than not a one-side view aligned with government lines. For instance, somebody else mentioned a bit higher that they have a "fact-checking" column that was actually a piece of fact-twisting rubbish. And although they are not peddling lies there, per se, it is very "coincidental" that the "true" view being presented there as facts is always aligned with the global trending (government) narrative and other views are dismissed. It doesn't mean that they are twisting facts, as what conspiracy theorists denounce as the "global narrative" is, I believe, more often than not aligned with the facts, but it's very suspicious that a "dissident" point of view never shows up in those articles. It's the job of a true, high-quality journalist to look far beyond the facts being presented, to understand if they can be taken at face value or if, perhaps, the non-obvious or non-dominant narrative should be put forward instead. And unfortunately that's not something Le Monde can be relied on anymore. (As recent examples of "alternative facts" that have been dismissed a bit too quickly recently, one could put forward the Biden laptop hard-drive saga or the lab-made Covid story.. Both are stories with fascinating implications if they turn out to be true, and that warrants hard journalistic questions to be asked..) In France, if you want interesting news, you have to rely on Mediapart and Le Canard enchaîné. If you just want to keep up with what is happening in the country, Le Monde will do.

sneeze-slayer 5y ago

Very cool. It is always nice to read foreign newspapers to get a slightly different take or opinion on topics. I am quite happy that it is only 2,49€/month for a digital subscription. I considered subscribing to a German newspaper or two, but their digital prices are quite high, often coming in at 10+€/month. NYTimes is only $4/month, but I imagine their subscriber count is higher.