15 ms·

The first RISC-V portable computer is now available

369 points by josteink 5y ago

humanwhosits 5y ago
Who built the cpu itself? It's interesting that it claims V-extension support, even though that was only just ratified
- mhh__ 5y ago
  The vector extension was implemented in industry based on the draft rather than waiting until ratification AFAIK
  - snvzz 5y ago
    >The vector extension was implemented in industry based on the draft Not widely if that's what you meant by "in industry". Most (like SiFive) did indeed wait for ratification (in case of last minute changes), before announcing their cores. Pre-standard V chips do of course exist, and this is a good thing (there's better testing in using actual hardware implementations). They have to use the opcode space reserved for custom extensions, and obviously cannot claim V compatibility. No overlap with actual V opcode space, and therefore no compatibility issues. These are, nevertheless, fine for embedded uses in which the vendor has control over the whole stack. It does also mean they have to take on the associated cost of having to maintain it, unless they choose not to actually use the custom extension at all, a choice that realistically will actually suffice for most deployments.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Allwinner, the core is a XuanTie C906 I think.
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  Allwinner D1: https://linux-sunxi.org/D1 https://linux-sunxi.org/D1 - SoC based on XuanTie C906.
submeta 5y ago
Does it run Emacs? :)
- kragen 5y ago
  Evidently it runs LibreOffice and Vim, so I can't imagine Emacs would be any problem: https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the-devterm/ https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the...
  - nathanasmith 5y ago
    It appears that device isn't using the RISC-V module under discussion but an ARM version instead. >I decided to install in my DevTerm the simplest module compatible with the popular RaspberryPi Linux distribution. It’s slower than the other “cores” but less power-hungry, and it’s very simple to install pre-compiled software and look up answers for any questions (as the RaspberryPi community is so huge). Yet this core still gives the user an ARM64-bit Quad-Core Cortex-A53 1.2 GHz CPU and 1 GB of RAM — more than enough to run simple writing apps.
    - kragen 5y ago
      Thanks, you're right. I think the RISC-V version also runs Linux, though, and has the same amount of RAM?
cultofmetatron 5y ago
looks awesome as a toy but a bit impractical for traveling with. Would be an instant buy when its available in a pinebook pro form factor.
- jjice 5y ago
  "Awesome toy" is a good way to put it. Very neat, but not practical for me. Really excited to see some RISC-V stuff though.
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  Looking at some videos, overall my impression is that it's too large to be very portable, but too small to be truly usable. The device sits in a bit of a size "dead zone" where it has the worst aspects of all form factors.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    But on a positive spin, maybe that's exactly what you need to come up with some unique use cases.
mhh__ 5y ago
$239 is a lot of money for a meme. The processor looks just as closed as a raspberry pi
- pelasaco 5y ago
  $239 + 60 business days
- rjsw 5y ago
  The processor avoids being closed by not having a GPU.
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    So where's the RTL for the processor then?
    - ggreg84 5y ago
      +1. Asking the right questions.
    - kragen 5y ago
      The RTL is on GitHub under the Apache2 license: https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc906 https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc906 Yocto project in https://github.com/T-head-Semi/xuantie-yocto https://github.com/T-head-Semi/xuantie-yocto
      - mhh__ 5y ago
        Ok looks like I was wrong. Is the openc906 definitely the same design as the one in the D1? It looks like it is but I have been bitten by xyz vs. open-xyz subtlety before.
        kragen 5y ago
        I don't know for sure; even if it purportedly is, there's probably no way to verify that no hardware backdoors have been inserted, if that's your concern. And rebuilding the CPU with your desired modifications would require signing the appropriate agreements with your fab provider of choice and probably a million dollars or so over a year or two. Still, you could probably do cycle-accurate simulations on an FPGA at a lower clock speed, if that's what you're into. https://www.hackster.io/news/mangopi-mq1-is-an-ultra-compact-soon-to-be-open-source-allwinner-d1-risc-v-dev-board-eb5388783a0e https://www.hackster.io/news/mangopi-mq1-is-an-ultra-compact... claims the Allwinner D1 "is" the "XuanTie C906, which Alibaba's T-Head division recently released under the permissive Apache 2.0 open source license." But of course the author could be mistaken about that.
WillFlux 5y ago
The keyboard seems to be the weakness of the DevTerm, which is a shame. This review was typical: "The keyboard is just OK. To be honest, it was the only part of the device I was a bit disappointed about. The keys are small, not spaced apart enough, and can be hard to press." [1] [1] https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the-devterm/ https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the...
- ad8e 5y ago
  The key positions are also different from a normal keyboard: all rows are shifted by 1/4, whereas a QWERTY keyboard has 1/2 shifts between rows 1-Q and A-Z, and 1/4 between Q-A. From a psychological UX perspective, I'd prefer 1/2 shifts between all the rows, creating a hex grid. Ortho is also logical and justifiable, although its packing is worse than hex. But if convention is to be broken, it should not be the 1/4 that this product has chosen, which offers no benefit and creates an unfamiliarity cost. Better to stick with the standard key positions than this.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  Trackpad isn't fantastic either, it's unusable out of the box but the community made a patch that makes it mostly ok.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Haha just like the pinebook pro. I've actually got an atom based PC that uses the exact same chassis and trackpad as the pinebook pro, and I've been trying to use the same community firmware. Because it is indeed horrible by default. Random touches, scrolling instead of pointing etc. No palm rekection at all. Unfortunately I never managed to get it to install :(
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      Sorry, trackball rather than trackpad.
dogecoinbase 5y ago
The module is available on its own, and cheap enough that I picked one up to try in a different rPi compute module host board: https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/copy-of-clockworkpi-core-r-01 https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/copy-of-clockworkpi... Hopefully it works!
- sitzkrieg 5y ago
  awesome was hopin to avoid the keyboard and stuff i dont need so this is perfect
tasty_freeze 5y ago
It looks a lot like the TRS-80 Model 100: https://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/trs80-model100/ https://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/trs80-model100/
- cduzz 5y ago
  Unfortunately, although it looks like a TRS-80 100/102, or a wp2, it is actually enough smaller that it looks like you wouldn't be able to type on it. I'd buy something like this if it were the size of a normal keyboard (and as long as it cost less than 300, oh, and as long as it has 4gb of ram. yeah, probably I'm not actually the target market).
  - jgtrosh 5y ago
    I've used my DevTerm for a while, and the keyboard is definitely small. You get better using it after some time, but the key size and the unorthodox key placement due to size constraints does make it more of a toy than an actual “dev term”. That's fine for me since I didn't have any serious use planned for it: I'm currently using it as a text game terminal with TTY duplication on the thermal printer. That's pretty fun to hand out to friends to introduce them to some retro computing, but I wouldn't advocate the device as a serious computing platform.
    - kragen 5y ago
      How many millimeters across and tall is the keyboard?
hnthrowaway0315 5y ago
>Now to see if I can convince my wife to let me buy one. Exactly what I'm thinking.
civilized 5y ago
The design looks like it's from the 80s or earlier. Is this some sort of nostalgia thing?
- Elidrake42 5y ago
  The article links to the inspiration in the second paragraph: https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-last-programming-project-from?s=w https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-last-programming-project-...
kragen 5y ago
This seems like an inspiring step in the direction of a device that I want, but which as far as I can tell, doesn't exist, but I have one burning question: How small is it? I've been trying to figure out what I need for comfortable portable writing. I have an Aspire One that's pretty much at the lower limit for key spacing for my hands, with 17 mm × 16 mm keys. I'm typing this on a cheap USB external keyboard with keys closer to 18.5 mm wide, and I think slightly tighter spacing would be more comfortable. I might be able to make do with 15 mm or even 14 mm horizontal key spacing, but my fingers would collide. Someone with smaller hands could manage a slightly smaller keyboard, but not that much smaller. Touchtyping becomes impossible and you're reduced to typing with two fingers like a five-year-old. Unfortunately none of https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the-devterm/ https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the... https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-first-risc-v-portable-computer https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-first-risc-v-portable-com... https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 bothers to give any dimensions at all, even when they spend a lot of time talking about how small it is. From my point of view, this is more important than the information they did give, and it seems like it was pretty important to them too, so I don't understand why they omitted this information. What I want is: 1. A computer powerful enough to recompile all its own software, 2. which can run a reasonably convenient programming environment (my bar is pretty low here: at least as good as Emacs with GCC on a VAX with a VT100, or MPW on a Macintosh SE), 3. which fits in my pocket, 4. which doesn't need batteries or plugging in, 5. which I can recover if I corrupt its filesystem, and 6. which is usable in direct sunlight. This laptop fulfills points #1, #2, and #5. My cellphone fulfills points #2, #3, and #6. My solar calculator fulfills points #3, #4, #5 (trivially), and #6. It looks like this "DevTerm" fulfills points #1, #2, and #5, same as my current laptop but maybe slightly more portable. But I don't think any computing device exists, or ever has existed, that hits all of these points. But I think it's attainable now. I think the conjunction of points #2 and #3 probably requires the thing to unfold or deploy somehow, unless some kind of Twiddler-like device would allow me to do it one-handed. There just isn't room for both of my hands at once on the surface of things that fit in my pocket (about 100 mm × 120 mm). Conceivably a laser projection keyboard could work.
- unwind 5y ago
gswdh 5y ago
phendrenad2 5y ago
This is certainly dead on arrival, right? Nobody wants or has ever wanted a computer with a screen flush with the keyboard. This was even known in the late 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jornada_(PDA)#Jornada_720 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jornada_(PDA)#Jornada_720 Maybe someone can hack a longer flexible ribbon cable and a hinge? And sell it as an aftermarket kit? Please? (The thing looks pretty cool otherwise).
- sp332 5y ago
  They've been selling terminals with a similar form factor (and a different internals) for a couple years now.
- bitwize 5y ago
  > This is certainly dead on arrival, right? Nobody wants or has ever wanted a computer with a screen flush with the keyboard. The Tandy 100, whose design inspired this machine, was very popular among journalists as a note taking machine.
  - kragen 5y ago
    Yeah, I saw a reporter typing up a sports story on a TRS-80 Model 100 in a Wendy's in San Mateo in 01996, 13 years after the machine's release. I think it had been discontinued for many years at that point. They're still around but I haven't seen one since then.
- syntheweave 5y ago
  I'd use it as a macro keypad. There's a mostly unaddressed use case for high-end macro users. You can get remotes with a few buttons, a knob and in some cases a screen capable of a bit of text labels(like Xencelabs Quick Keys). You can hack a dollar store keyboard and label it yourself, but then you have to maintain the software to keep it in sync. You can get the Elgato Stream Deck, which is effective but expensive and pretty one-of-a-kind between the button displays and the software integrations. And you can use some phone apps to get a touchscreen remote. But there are only a few examples of something like this device where you have a bunch of real keys plus a separate screen that can support high res graphics, without going all the way up to laptop form factors(too much screen).
colordrops 5y ago
> it’s hard to not immediately fall head over heels No doubt, because you're going to be cricking your neck over to look at the thing. Looks painful.
squarefoot 5y ago
Another similar device, although more powerful and more interesting hardware-wise, would be the Pocket Popcorn Computer, which unfortunately still hasn't provided any proof of being a real product other than shiny 3D renders. https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/ https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/ Edit: I stand corrected, totally missed the blog posts and the videos, happy to see I was wrong; the pandemic has been hard for many businesses unfortunately. If I may, they should put something on the homepage too however, as I recall monitoring it from time to time since probably over two years and it never showed that there were working prototypes. This would help to fuel interest.
- floren 5y ago
  I went to school with Alan and Jose, and I believe they're honestly doing their best to get a real product out there. The company blog (https://blog.popcorncomputer.com/ https://blog.popcorncomputer.com/) indicates that they should be shipping to the earliest purchasers very soon.
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  > still hasn't provided any proof of being a real product other than shiny 3D renders There are pictures and videos of development devices on Twitter; for example: https://twitter.com/gajjar04akash1/status/1484441729038426117 https://twitter.com/gajjar04akash1/status/148444172903842611...
- snvzz 5y ago
  >Quad-Core ARM Cortex-A53 CPU Wrong ISA to be on topic.
candyman 5y ago
Man that's ugly.
Maursault 5y ago
I think this is neat, but it is either too expensive or it is underpowered for the price. I think if you bought a 7th Gen iPod Touch, available since April 2019, and jailbroke it, and added a bluetooth keyboard, you'd have a far more powerful computer (A10 chip has two high performance cores @1.64Ghz plus two more efficiency cores) for about the same price, plus you'd also still have an iPod and mobile Safari.
- dijit 5y ago
  But. It wouldn’t be riscv. Which is the unique selling point. Not the power.
- detaro 5y ago
  First iteration and niche nerd product is obviously going to be more expensive.
Koshkin 5y ago
For some reason I hate it when the Fn key is the first key on the left. (What I hate even more is that laptop manufacturers have no agreement on this.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- spullara 5y ago
  Why? Do you use the Fn key all the time? I sent my Dell laptop back because the ctrl key was on the left and an unremappable Fn key was where ctrl is supposed to be.
  - kupfer 5y ago
    I press Ctrl+Shift+C/V quite often and it's for me it's easier to do with the left hand only when Ctrl is below Shift.
    - fouc 5y ago
      I imagine the macbook keyboard is fine in this situation because ctrl key is still directly below the shift key.
    - solarexplorer 5y ago
      I like to remap Caps Lock to Control to get a similar layout as the old Sun keyboards. It also makes pressing the Control key a lot easier.
      - macintux 5y ago
        Apple too. Was a sad day when Sun and Apple gave up that fight.
        nicoburns 5y ago
        At least with macOS you don’t actually need control very often.
Splendor 5y ago
Direct link to the computer in question: https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01
willcipriano 5y ago
I've got the A04 model (ARM). Its more of something to play with than anything else. I keep it by my bed for fooling around with my side projects in the night.
sylware 5y ago
IMHO, for devs, a modular laptop would be more appropriate: a display panel, a CPU/GPU box, mouse/keyboard, a battery pack... and the bag designed to carry those components.
- snek_case 5y ago
  What could be really cool is a lunchbox portable computer with a keyboard that closes on the front: https://www.flickr.com/photos/befuddledsenses/493303864 https://www.flickr.com/photos/befuddledsenses/493303864 I think you could make it pretty small but still large enough to fit two small PCI-express cards and replaceable/upgradeable RAM modules. It would be a good format for tinkerers, very amenable to having replaceable parts and being user-serviceable. Throw some GPIO in there and you would have a real winner for the maker crowd. EDIT: someone build this lunchbox portable with a raspberry pi and it looks really awesome: https://hackaday.com/2020/06/09/lunchbox-cyberdeck-is-a-tasty-build/ https://hackaday.com/2020/06/09/lunchbox-cyberdeck-is-a-tast...
- rileyphone 5y ago
  Check out the Pockit that was on here a few days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3F9OtH2Xx4&list=UU49EYw900LZn5VBglLRzxHw&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3F9OtH2Xx4&list=UU49EYw900L...
bragr 5y ago
>To be among the first to use an open source, RISC-V CPU in a regular computer? A portable one, no less?! To be a pioneer of a more open hardware future? That sounds like an absolute privilege. Is this an actual open source processor? I can't find any info on it either way. A lot of the conversation around RISC-V seems to conflate the open source nature of the ISA with the the actual implementation. Even the reference implementations are BSD licensed so people are allowed to distribute proprietary derivatives to say nothing of completely proprietary implementations. If all or most of the implementations are propriety, I feel like it is a mostly lateral move from ARM as, although it is not open source, the ARM ISA is readily available [1], and the same kinds of rarified CPU engineering and academic circles that will have influence in the RISC-V Foundation, already influence ARM. [1] https://developer.arm.com/architectures/cpu-architecture/a-profile/exploration-tools https://developer.arm.com/architectures/cpu-architecture/a-p...
- snvzz 5y ago
  >Is this an actual open source processor? AIUI the SoC is not open, but the CPU design it contains, XuanTie C906, is. It would even be decent if it had standard V extension, but sadly it uses an incompatible pre-standard draft.
  - phkahler 5y ago
    Is there really any software yet that uses the V?
    - sitkack 5y ago
      All software will use V once it is available. Any operation done in a loop over fixed size elements can have V applied to it. It is much more powerful than SIMD.
      - owlbite 5y ago
        I must admit, I've yet to find a performance relevant loop that I can't do in simd that doesn't also have dependencies on previous iterations such that no magic instruction set is going to help unless it's capable of time travel.
api 5y ago
This looks just like the venerable Tandy 100! http://www.oldcomputers.net/trs100.html http://www.oldcomputers.net/trs100.html That can't be a coincidence.
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
lizardactivist 5y ago
Very cool little thing, and it looks like something straight out of a sci-fi movie.
snvzz 5y ago
I'll skip this one, and wait for RVA22-compliant devices. This machine uses the Allwinner D1[0] SoC, which is pre-standard V, incompatible with the standard V extension ratified in December. Even if not enabling/using the V, and thus considering it just RV64GC, it is a fairly slow one relative to what's already available in the market, and it comes with just one core. I already have the ~$21 LicheeRV w/Dock[1], which uses the same D1 SoC. IMHO much more cost efficient if you want to play with D1. [0]: https://linux-sunxi.org/D1 https://linux-sunxi.org/D1 [1]: https://linux-sunxi.org/Sipeed_Lichee_RV https://linux-sunxi.org/Sipeed_Lichee_RV
- _vdpp 5y ago
  Thanks for pointing out RVA22 - I wasn’t aware of the initiative but it’s a great idea. I still have reservations about the core architecture but having some standards for the rest of the ecosystem is a big win.
- Pet_Ant 5y ago
  For those not familiar of RVA22 documentation of it is here: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-profiles/blob/main/profiles.adoc#introduction https://github.com/riscv/riscv-profiles/blob/main/profiles.a... Essentially it is shortform for standardising a set of optional instruction sets into a bundle. RV for RISC-V, A for "applcation supporting" (as opposed to being used in embedded or microcontroller) and 22 for 2022 (in 2100 it'll be 100)
  - snvzz 5y ago
    >Essentially it is shortform for standardising a set of optional instruction sets into a bundle. This is a common misconception. RVA22 is not just a bunch of profiles, but 2022's OS-A Platform. Platforms do, among many things, require profiles, which are what you've described. In this particular case the RVA22 platform requires the RVA22 profiles. From your link, documenting profiles, there's an entire section[0] addressing the difference. The actual platform specification can be found here[1]. [0]: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-profiles/blob/main/profiles.adoc#profiles-versus-platforms https://github.com/riscv/riscv-profiles/blob/main/profiles.a... [1]: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-platform-specs/blob/main/riscv-platform-spec.adoc https://github.com/riscv/riscv-platform-specs/blob/main/risc...
amelius 5y ago
What does it cost to make a case and keyboard like that? I guess they used injection molding?
- 1MachineElf 5y ago
  Yes, it's injection molded. Here you can see some of the mold sprues that come with the kit: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3833f7_352ac21900e64720a5c013be62a05647~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_1900,h_1900,al_c/3833f7_352ac21900e64720a5c013be62a05647~mv2.png https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3833f7_352ac21900e64720a5...
LAC-Tech 5y ago
What's the significance of RISC-V? Easier to write compiler backends for? Faster? Simpler?
- RyJones 5y ago
  Open source ISA - no licensing fees.
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    What does that mean in practice - easier for people to manufacture hardware for them?
    - RyJones 5y ago
      Yes. You don’t need to sign up for a membership or some other thing to manufacture chips that comply with the standard.
      - freemint 5y ago
        But it also means people are implementing modified ISAs (such as this CPU which has a non standard V extension) which sucks for compatibility.
        snvzz 5y ago
        >But it also means people are implementing modified ISAs... which sucks for compatibility. I've seen this a lot, both as misunderstanding and as FUD. RISC-V was designed from the start with extensions in mind. This includes allocations for custom extensions that aren't standardized by RISC-V. >(such as this CPU which has a non standard V extension) There's nothing actually "incompatible" with this SoC, in the conflicting sense. D1's V does naturally use these custom extension allocations and thus does not collide with the standard V. It will therefore run RV64GC code just fine, and an illegal instruction exception will trigger should standard V code be encountered.
    - 5y ago
ge96 5y ago
Unpopular opinion, I don't know what's the deal with these small keyboards... like you're not going to be able to do work on that long term.
- hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
  If you care about ergonomics you wouldn’t use a laptop, let alone a slab PC.
  - ge96 5y ago
    Depends on the laptop size 13" personally is the size I go for/usable but yeah normally I use a 65-8% mechanical keyboard.
    - hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
      More that a display attached to the keyboard is horrible from an ergonomics perspective. Laptops turn humans into gremlins.
      - ge96 5y ago
        Oh yeah I get what you're saying about staring down, yeah external monitor-forward looking is ideal.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  It's not a device intended to do work on long term.
hestefisk 5y ago
I would love a little stationary riscv computer like this, which I can plug my own monitor and keyboard into. Does that exist?
- snvzz 5y ago
  The Lichee RV with its Dock does cost ~$21 and is more or less what you describe. Notably, this is the same chip used in the computer discussed in this story. [0]: https://linux-sunxi.org/Sipeed_Lichee_RV https://linux-sunxi.org/Sipeed_Lichee_RV
- BirAdam 5y ago
  You can plug a monitor, keyboard, and mouse into the DevTerm.
mlindner 5y ago
In recent years I've become more and more worried that work on RISC-V is just a way of empowering non-democratic governments the world over by giving them an escape hatch out of western controlled IPs. Yes it's better that these things are not controlled by big companies and yes this should improve innovation in the hardware space but what are we trading off when we get that benefit?
- zozbot234 5y ago
  That's not a bad thing by any means. It's making the best of a bad situation (non-democratic governments that are, to varying extents, anti-West) by incenting those governments to cooperate with the West on open alternatives to proprietary IP. Since such cooperation would basically never happen if it wasn't for the open IP-alternatives being available (they would develop proprietary IP of their own instead, as we've seen so many times already!) I'd call that a pretty good deal!
- Wesxdz 5y ago
  Sounds like a soft vulnerable world hypothesis. I think it's training, collaboration, motivation, and funding of engineers that really matters though. I think what's happening in Ukraine shows that as long as brain drain happens it doesn't matter if knowledge is open because it cannot be used effectively.
- hajile 5y ago
  They already did designs based on Alpha and MIPS ISAs. That genie definitely isn’t going back into the bottle. Instead, we’ve moved to limit their ability to manufacture. All the chip plans in the world are worthless if you can’t fabricate them. ASML was largely funded with US DoD money and they seem to have veto power when it comes to exports. Russia’s cutting edge tech is something like 180nm with promised for 90/65nm still being pipe dreams. China has managed small amounts of 32nm and talks about 22/14nm stuff, but they can’t get new equipment and all of that is mostly gleaned from the US outsourcing so much. This puts these countries 10-20 years behind and that’s if we don’t consider the nodes that are essentially complete, but waiting on the resources to build them out.
Aardwolf 5y ago
I love the look of it! Those rotating knobs look great to use compared to fiddly buttons or touch interfaces. No matter how "modern" touch interfaces are, the human body doesn't change and benefits from tactile feedback and immediate control (I don't know what the knobs do but if it's for example brightness, that's fantastic! I got a monitor that makes it harder to change brightness, than to enable a gaming crosshair...)
- gangstead 5y ago
  The knobs on the side? They turn a quarter turn and the front and back half of the housing come apart.
  - smilespray 5y ago
    What? I thought they were programmable. That would have been a selling point for me. This is like the classic home button on an iPhone being a tool for detaching the screen from the back of the phone.
pingsl 5y ago
I am very excited to see the RISC-V devices come to the end users. Then I am thinking how this device could fit into my daily life. I am wondering what are the typical scanrios for portable computers these days?
- snvzz 5y ago
  A portable computer people tend to fit into their daily life is their smartphone. Android RISC-V port was demonstrated over a year ago. I fully expect some RISC-V smartphones will hit the market as soon as chips with high performance cores are ready. Realistically, that means RVA22 (TBA in spring) + 6 month (assuming best case scenario immediate tapeout) + whatever time it takes to validate such a device built around the new chip. I would say 2023H1, if I had to guess.
- throwaway81523 5y ago
  I use a small laptop for pretty much all my daily life stuff. I do have a phone that I use for occasional mobile web access, navigation, etc. but my main computer is a laptop. I rarely browse or surf with the phone. I'd like to have a small linux tablet that I can use familiar dev tools on, but the inkplate 10 looks more attractive to me than this weird slab-like thing. The slab thing inherits too much from gaming devices, imho. Nothing wrong with gaming if that's what you're into, but the TRS-100 of yore was revered as a writing device and its keyboard was better suited for that purpos.
butterisgood 5y ago
Looks like neck pain waiting to happen
jbirer 5y ago
This is a very dangerous precedent for RISC-V. Allwinner is known as a champion in GPL violations, obfuscating technical details and keeping binary blobs. This defeats the entire purpose of RISC-V and creates an environment similar to what is now for ARM (everything locked down, everything opaque). The advertisement is basically false advertisement, this is no computer for "free hackers" but another locked down SCB with a non free core.
ngcc_hk 5y ago
Btw nearly buy one as I love the design. But the more I read here, I stop myself. But that design is great.
ngcc_hk 5y ago
Problem of Arm is not arm itself. Competition especially now with apple there meant they cannot close themselves to free software. The problem of arm is their peripheral like gpu (Pi). For RISC-v, on top of worry it is (a) all just trying to support a 10xrussian empire to be so no sanction later; (b) only the hardware guy concern address and even that a bit … we are still face all these bob of non-open things. Why bother? Helping evil?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

369 points by josteink 5y ago

humanwhosits 5y ago

Who built the cpu itself? It's interesting that it claims V-extension support, even though that was only just ratified

mhh__ 5y ago
The vector extension was implemented in industry based on the draft rather than waiting until ratification AFAIK
- snvzz 5y ago
  >The vector extension was implemented in industry based on the draft Not widely if that's what you meant by "in industry". Most (like SiFive) did indeed wait for ratification (in case of last minute changes), before announcing their cores. Pre-standard V chips do of course exist, and this is a good thing (there's better testing in using actual hardware implementations). They have to use the opcode space reserved for custom extensions, and obviously cannot claim V compatibility. No overlap with actual V opcode space, and therefore no compatibility issues. These are, nevertheless, fine for embedded uses in which the vendor has control over the whole stack. It does also mean they have to take on the associated cost of having to maintain it, unless they choose not to actually use the custom extension at all, a choice that realistically will actually suffice for most deployments.
mhh__ 5y ago
Allwinner, the core is a XuanTie C906 I think.
Beltalowda 5y ago
Allwinner D1: https://linux-sunxi.org/D1 https://linux-sunxi.org/D1 - SoC based on XuanTie C906.

submeta 5y ago

Does it run Emacs? :)

kragen 5y ago
Evidently it runs LibreOffice and Vim, so I can't imagine Emacs would be any problem: https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the-devterm/ https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the...
- nathanasmith 5y ago
  It appears that device isn't using the RISC-V module under discussion but an ARM version instead. >I decided to install in my DevTerm the simplest module compatible with the popular RaspberryPi Linux distribution. It’s slower than the other “cores” but less power-hungry, and it’s very simple to install pre-compiled software and look up answers for any questions (as the RaspberryPi community is so huge). Yet this core still gives the user an ARM64-bit Quad-Core Cortex-A53 1.2 GHz CPU and 1 GB of RAM — more than enough to run simple writing apps.
  - kragen 5y ago
    Thanks, you're right. I think the RISC-V version also runs Linux, though, and has the same amount of RAM?

cultofmetatron 5y ago

looks awesome as a toy but a bit impractical for traveling with. Would be an instant buy when its available in a pinebook pro form factor.

jjice 5y ago
"Awesome toy" is a good way to put it. Very neat, but not practical for me. Really excited to see some RISC-V stuff though.
Beltalowda 5y ago
Looking at some videos, overall my impression is that it's too large to be very portable, but too small to be truly usable. The device sits in a bit of a size "dead zone" where it has the worst aspects of all form factors.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  But on a positive spin, maybe that's exactly what you need to come up with some unique use cases.

mhh__ 5y ago

$239 is a lot of money for a meme. The processor looks just as closed as a raspberry pi

pelasaco 5y ago
$239 + 60 business days
rjsw 5y ago
The processor avoids being closed by not having a GPU.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  So where's the RTL for the processor then?
  - ggreg84 5y ago
    +1. Asking the right questions.
  - kragen 5y ago
    The RTL is on GitHub under the Apache2 license: https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc906 https://github.com/T-head-Semi/openc906 Yocto project in https://github.com/T-head-Semi/xuantie-yocto https://github.com/T-head-Semi/xuantie-yocto
    - mhh__ 5y ago
      Ok looks like I was wrong. Is the openc906 definitely the same design as the one in the D1? It looks like it is but I have been bitten by xyz vs. open-xyz subtlety before.
      - kragen 5y ago
        I don't know for sure; even if it purportedly is, there's probably no way to verify that no hardware backdoors have been inserted, if that's your concern. And rebuilding the CPU with your desired modifications would require signing the appropriate agreements with your fab provider of choice and probably a million dollars or so over a year or two. Still, you could probably do cycle-accurate simulations on an FPGA at a lower clock speed, if that's what you're into. https://www.hackster.io/news/mangopi-mq1-is-an-ultra-compact-soon-to-be-open-source-allwinner-d1-risc-v-dev-board-eb5388783a0e https://www.hackster.io/news/mangopi-mq1-is-an-ultra-compact... claims the Allwinner D1 "is" the "XuanTie C906, which Alibaba's T-Head division recently released under the permissive Apache 2.0 open source license." But of course the author could be mistaken about that.

WillFlux 5y ago

The keyboard seems to be the weakness of the DevTerm, which is a shame. This review was typical: "The keyboard is just OK. To be honest, it was the only part of the device I was a bit disappointed about. The keys are small, not spaced apart enough, and can be hard to press." [1] [1] https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the-devterm/ https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the...

ad8e 5y ago
The key positions are also different from a normal keyboard: all rows are shifted by 1/4, whereas a QWERTY keyboard has 1/2 shifts between rows 1-Q and A-Z, and 1/4 between Q-A. From a psychological UX perspective, I'd prefer 1/2 shifts between all the rows, creating a hex grid. Ortho is also logical and justifiable, although its packing is worse than hex. But if convention is to be broken, it should not be the 1/4 that this product has chosen, which offers no benefit and creates an unfamiliarity cost. Better to stick with the standard key positions than this.
willcipriano 5y ago
Trackpad isn't fantastic either, it's unusable out of the box but the community made a patch that makes it mostly ok.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Haha just like the pinebook pro. I've actually got an atom based PC that uses the exact same chassis and trackpad as the pinebook pro, and I've been trying to use the same community firmware. Because it is indeed horrible by default. Random touches, scrolling instead of pointing etc. No palm rekection at all. Unfortunately I never managed to get it to install :(
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    Sorry, trackball rather than trackpad.

dogecoinbase 5y ago

The module is available on its own, and cheap enough that I picked one up to try in a different rPi compute module host board: https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/copy-of-clockworkpi-core-r-01 https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/copy-of-clockworkpi... Hopefully it works!

sitzkrieg 5y ago
awesome was hopin to avoid the keyboard and stuff i dont need so this is perfect

tasty_freeze 5y ago

It looks a lot like the TRS-80 Model 100: https://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/trs80-model100/ https://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/trs80-model100/

cduzz 5y ago
Unfortunately, although it looks like a TRS-80 100/102, or a wp2, it is actually enough smaller that it looks like you wouldn't be able to type on it. I'd buy something like this if it were the size of a normal keyboard (and as long as it cost less than 300, oh, and as long as it has 4gb of ram. yeah, probably I'm not actually the target market).
- jgtrosh 5y ago
  I've used my DevTerm for a while, and the keyboard is definitely small. You get better using it after some time, but the key size and the unorthodox key placement due to size constraints does make it more of a toy than an actual “dev term”. That's fine for me since I didn't have any serious use planned for it: I'm currently using it as a text game terminal with TTY duplication on the thermal printer. That's pretty fun to hand out to friends to introduce them to some retro computing, but I wouldn't advocate the device as a serious computing platform.
  - kragen 5y ago
    How many millimeters across and tall is the keyboard?

hnthrowaway0315 5y ago

>Now to see if I can convince my wife to let me buy one. Exactly what I'm thinking.

civilized 5y ago

The design looks like it's from the 80s or earlier. Is this some sort of nostalgia thing?

Elidrake42 5y ago
The article links to the inspiration in the second paragraph: https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-last-programming-project-from?s=w https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-last-programming-project-...

kragen 5y ago

This seems like an inspiring step in the direction of a device that I want, but which as far as I can tell, doesn't exist, but I have one burning question: How small is it? I've been trying to figure out what I need for comfortable portable writing. I have an Aspire One that's pretty much at the lower limit for key spacing for my hands, with 17 mm × 16 mm keys. I'm typing this on a cheap USB external keyboard with keys closer to 18.5 mm wide, and I think slightly tighter spacing would be more comfortable. I might be able to make do with 15 mm or even 14 mm horizontal key spacing, but my fingers would collide. Someone with smaller hands could manage a slightly smaller keyboard, but not that much smaller. Touchtyping becomes impossible and you're reduced to typing with two fingers like a five-year-old. Unfortunately none of https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the-devterm/ https://artvsentropy.wordpress.com/2022/01/15/writing-on-the... https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-first-risc-v-portable-computer https://lunduke.substack.com/p/the-first-risc-v-portable-com... https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 bothers to give any dimensions at all, even when they spend a lot of time talking about how small it is. From my point of view, this is more important than the information they did give, and it seems like it was pretty important to them too, so I don't understand why they omitted this information. What I want is: 1. A computer powerful enough to recompile all its own software, 2. which can run a reasonably convenient programming environment (my bar is pretty low here: at least as good as Emacs with GCC on a VAX with a VT100, or MPW on a Macintosh SE), 3. which fits in my pocket, 4. which doesn't need batteries or plugging in, 5. which I can recover if I corrupt its filesystem, and 6. which is usable in direct sunlight. This laptop fulfills points #1, #2, and #5. My cellphone fulfills points #2, #3, and #6. My solar calculator fulfills points #3, #4, #5 (trivially), and #6. It looks like this "DevTerm" fulfills points #1, #2, and #5, same as my current laptop but maybe slightly more portable. But I don't think any computing device exists, or ever has existed, that hits all of these points. But I think it's attainable now. I think the conjunction of points #2 and #3 probably requires the thing to unfold or deploy somehow, unless some kind of Twiddler-like device would allow me to do it one-handed. There just isn't room for both of my hands at once on the surface of things that fit in my pocket (about 100 mm × 120 mm). Conceivably a laser projection keyboard could work.

unwind 5y ago

gswdh 5y ago

phendrenad2 5y ago

This is certainly dead on arrival, right? Nobody wants or has ever wanted a computer with a screen flush with the keyboard. This was even known in the late 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jornada_(PDA)#Jornada_720 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jornada_(PDA)#Jornada_720 Maybe someone can hack a longer flexible ribbon cable and a hinge? And sell it as an aftermarket kit? Please? (The thing looks pretty cool otherwise).

sp332 5y ago
They've been selling terminals with a similar form factor (and a different internals) for a couple years now.
bitwize 5y ago
> This is certainly dead on arrival, right? Nobody wants or has ever wanted a computer with a screen flush with the keyboard. The Tandy 100, whose design inspired this machine, was very popular among journalists as a note taking machine.
- kragen 5y ago
  Yeah, I saw a reporter typing up a sports story on a TRS-80 Model 100 in a Wendy's in San Mateo in 01996, 13 years after the machine's release. I think it had been discontinued for many years at that point. They're still around but I haven't seen one since then.
syntheweave 5y ago
I'd use it as a macro keypad. There's a mostly unaddressed use case for high-end macro users. You can get remotes with a few buttons, a knob and in some cases a screen capable of a bit of text labels(like Xencelabs Quick Keys). You can hack a dollar store keyboard and label it yourself, but then you have to maintain the software to keep it in sync. You can get the Elgato Stream Deck, which is effective but expensive and pretty one-of-a-kind between the button displays and the software integrations. And you can use some phone apps to get a touchscreen remote. But there are only a few examples of something like this device where you have a bunch of real keys plus a separate screen that can support high res graphics, without going all the way up to laptop form factors(too much screen).

colordrops 5y ago

> it’s hard to not immediately fall head over heels No doubt, because you're going to be cricking your neck over to look at the thing. Looks painful.

squarefoot 5y ago

Another similar device, although more powerful and more interesting hardware-wise, would be the Pocket Popcorn Computer, which unfortunately still hasn't provided any proof of being a real product other than shiny 3D renders. https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/ https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/ Edit: I stand corrected, totally missed the blog posts and the videos, happy to see I was wrong; the pandemic has been hard for many businesses unfortunately. If I may, they should put something on the homepage too however, as I recall monitoring it from time to time since probably over two years and it never showed that there were working prototypes. This would help to fuel interest.

floren 5y ago
I went to school with Alan and Jose, and I believe they're honestly doing their best to get a real product out there. The company blog (https://blog.popcorncomputer.com/ https://blog.popcorncomputer.com/) indicates that they should be shipping to the earliest purchasers very soon.
Beltalowda 5y ago
> still hasn't provided any proof of being a real product other than shiny 3D renders There are pictures and videos of development devices on Twitter; for example: https://twitter.com/gajjar04akash1/status/1484441729038426117 https://twitter.com/gajjar04akash1/status/148444172903842611...
snvzz 5y ago
>Quad-Core ARM Cortex-A53 CPU Wrong ISA to be on topic.

candyman 5y ago

Man that's ugly.

Maursault 5y ago

I think this is neat, but it is either too expensive or it is underpowered for the price. I think if you bought a 7th Gen iPod Touch, available since April 2019, and jailbroke it, and added a bluetooth keyboard, you'd have a far more powerful computer (A10 chip has two high performance cores @1.64Ghz plus two more efficiency cores) for about the same price, plus you'd also still have an iPod and mobile Safari.

dijit 5y ago
But. It wouldn’t be riscv. Which is the unique selling point. Not the power.
detaro 5y ago
First iteration and niche nerd product is obviously going to be more expensive.

Koshkin 5y ago

For some reason I hate it when the Fn key is the first key on the left. (What I hate even more is that laptop manufacturers have no agreement on this.)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
spullara 5y ago
Why? Do you use the Fn key all the time? I sent my Dell laptop back because the ctrl key was on the left and an unremappable Fn key was where ctrl is supposed to be.
- kupfer 5y ago
  I press Ctrl+Shift+C/V quite often and it's for me it's easier to do with the left hand only when Ctrl is below Shift.
  - fouc 5y ago
    I imagine the macbook keyboard is fine in this situation because ctrl key is still directly below the shift key.
  - solarexplorer 5y ago
    I like to remap Caps Lock to Control to get a similar layout as the old Sun keyboards. It also makes pressing the Control key a lot easier.
    - macintux 5y ago
      Apple too. Was a sad day when Sun and Apple gave up that fight.
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        At least with macOS you don’t actually need control very often.

Splendor 5y ago

Direct link to the computer in question: https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01 https://www.clockworkpi.com/product-page/devterm-kit-r01

willcipriano 5y ago

I've got the A04 model (ARM). Its more of something to play with than anything else. I keep it by my bed for fooling around with my side projects in the night.

sylware 5y ago

IMHO, for devs, a modular laptop would be more appropriate: a display panel, a CPU/GPU box, mouse/keyboard, a battery pack... and the bag designed to carry those components.

snek_case 5y ago
What could be really cool is a lunchbox portable computer with a keyboard that closes on the front: https://www.flickr.com/photos/befuddledsenses/493303864 https://www.flickr.com/photos/befuddledsenses/493303864 I think you could make it pretty small but still large enough to fit two small PCI-express cards and replaceable/upgradeable RAM modules. It would be a good format for tinkerers, very amenable to having replaceable parts and being user-serviceable. Throw some GPIO in there and you would have a real winner for the maker crowd. EDIT: someone build this lunchbox portable with a raspberry pi and it looks really awesome: https://hackaday.com/2020/06/09/lunchbox-cyberdeck-is-a-tasty-build/ https://hackaday.com/2020/06/09/lunchbox-cyberdeck-is-a-tast...
rileyphone 5y ago
Check out the Pockit that was on here a few days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3F9OtH2Xx4&list=UU49EYw900LZn5VBglLRzxHw&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3F9OtH2Xx4&list=UU49EYw900L...

bragr 5y ago

>To be among the first to use an open source, RISC-V CPU in a regular computer? A portable one, no less?! To be a pioneer of a more open hardware future? That sounds like an absolute privilege. Is this an actual open source processor? I can't find any info on it either way. A lot of the conversation around RISC-V seems to conflate the open source nature of the ISA with the the actual implementation. Even the reference implementations are BSD licensed so people are allowed to distribute proprietary derivatives to say nothing of completely proprietary implementations. If all or most of the implementations are propriety, I feel like it is a mostly lateral move from ARM as, although it is not open source, the ARM ISA is readily available [1], and the same kinds of rarified CPU engineering and academic circles that will have influence in the RISC-V Foundation, already influence ARM. [1] https://developer.arm.com/architectures/cpu-architecture/a-profile/exploration-tools https://developer.arm.com/architectures/cpu-architecture/a-p...

snvzz 5y ago
>Is this an actual open source processor? AIUI the SoC is not open, but the CPU design it contains, XuanTie C906, is. It would even be decent if it had standard V extension, but sadly it uses an incompatible pre-standard draft.
- phkahler 5y ago
  Is there really any software yet that uses the V?
  - sitkack 5y ago
    All software will use V once it is available. Any operation done in a loop over fixed size elements can have V applied to it. It is much more powerful than SIMD.
    - owlbite 5y ago
      I must admit, I've yet to find a performance relevant loop that I can't do in simd that doesn't also have dependencies on previous iterations such that no magic instruction set is going to help unless it's capable of time travel.

api 5y ago

This looks just like the venerable Tandy 100! http://www.oldcomputers.net/trs100.html http://www.oldcomputers.net/trs100.html That can't be a coincidence.

mrtweetyhack 5y ago

lizardactivist 5y ago

Very cool little thing, and it looks like something straight out of a sci-fi movie.

snvzz 5y ago

I'll skip this one, and wait for RVA22-compliant devices. This machine uses the Allwinner D1[0] SoC, which is pre-standard V, incompatible with the standard V extension ratified in December. Even if not enabling/using the V, and thus considering it just RV64GC, it is a fairly slow one relative to what's already available in the market, and it comes with just one core. I already have the ~$21 LicheeRV w/Dock[1], which uses the same D1 SoC. IMHO much more cost efficient if you want to play with D1. [0]: https://linux-sunxi.org/D1 https://linux-sunxi.org/D1 [1]: https://linux-sunxi.org/Sipeed_Lichee_RV https://linux-sunxi.org/Sipeed_Lichee_RV

_vdpp 5y ago
Thanks for pointing out RVA22 - I wasn’t aware of the initiative but it’s a great idea. I still have reservations about the core architecture but having some standards for the rest of the ecosystem is a big win.
Pet_Ant 5y ago
For those not familiar of RVA22 documentation of it is here: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-profiles/blob/main/profiles.adoc#introduction https://github.com/riscv/riscv-profiles/blob/main/profiles.a... Essentially it is shortform for standardising a set of optional instruction sets into a bundle. RV for RISC-V, A for "applcation supporting" (as opposed to being used in embedded or microcontroller) and 22 for 2022 (in 2100 it'll be 100)
- snvzz 5y ago
  >Essentially it is shortform for standardising a set of optional instruction sets into a bundle. This is a common misconception. RVA22 is not just a bunch of profiles, but 2022's OS-A Platform. Platforms do, among many things, require profiles, which are what you've described. In this particular case the RVA22 platform requires the RVA22 profiles. From your link, documenting profiles, there's an entire section[0] addressing the difference. The actual platform specification can be found here[1]. [0]: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-profiles/blob/main/profiles.adoc#profiles-versus-platforms https://github.com/riscv/riscv-profiles/blob/main/profiles.a... [1]: https://github.com/riscv/riscv-platform-specs/blob/main/riscv-platform-spec.adoc https://github.com/riscv/riscv-platform-specs/blob/main/risc...

amelius 5y ago

What does it cost to make a case and keyboard like that? I guess they used injection molding?

1MachineElf 5y ago
Yes, it's injection molded. Here you can see some of the mold sprues that come with the kit: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3833f7_352ac21900e64720a5c013be62a05647~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_1900,h_1900,al_c/3833f7_352ac21900e64720a5c013be62a05647~mv2.png https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3833f7_352ac21900e64720a5...

LAC-Tech 5y ago

What's the significance of RISC-V? Easier to write compiler backends for? Faster? Simpler?

RyJones 5y ago
Open source ISA - no licensing fees.
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  What does that mean in practice - easier for people to manufacture hardware for them?
  - RyJones 5y ago
    Yes. You don’t need to sign up for a membership or some other thing to manufacture chips that comply with the standard.
    - freemint 5y ago
      But it also means people are implementing modified ISAs (such as this CPU which has a non standard V extension) which sucks for compatibility.
      - snvzz 5y ago
        >But it also means people are implementing modified ISAs... which sucks for compatibility. I've seen this a lot, both as misunderstanding and as FUD. RISC-V was designed from the start with extensions in mind. This includes allocations for custom extensions that aren't standardized by RISC-V. >(such as this CPU which has a non standard V extension) There's nothing actually "incompatible" with this SoC, in the conflicting sense. D1's V does naturally use these custom extension allocations and thus does not collide with the standard V. It will therefore run RV64GC code just fine, and an illegal instruction exception will trigger should standard V code be encountered.
  - 5y ago

ge96 5y ago

Unpopular opinion, I don't know what's the deal with these small keyboards... like you're not going to be able to do work on that long term.

hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
If you care about ergonomics you wouldn’t use a laptop, let alone a slab PC.
- ge96 5y ago
  Depends on the laptop size 13" personally is the size I go for/usable but yeah normally I use a 65-8% mechanical keyboard.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
    More that a display attached to the keyboard is horrible from an ergonomics perspective. Laptops turn humans into gremlins.
    - ge96 5y ago
      Oh yeah I get what you're saying about staring down, yeah external monitor-forward looking is ideal.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
It's not a device intended to do work on long term.

hestefisk 5y ago

I would love a little stationary riscv computer like this, which I can plug my own monitor and keyboard into. Does that exist?

snvzz 5y ago
The Lichee RV with its Dock does cost ~$21 and is more or less what you describe. Notably, this is the same chip used in the computer discussed in this story. [0]: https://linux-sunxi.org/Sipeed_Lichee_RV https://linux-sunxi.org/Sipeed_Lichee_RV
BirAdam 5y ago
You can plug a monitor, keyboard, and mouse into the DevTerm.

mlindner 5y ago

In recent years I've become more and more worried that work on RISC-V is just a way of empowering non-democratic governments the world over by giving them an escape hatch out of western controlled IPs. Yes it's better that these things are not controlled by big companies and yes this should improve innovation in the hardware space but what are we trading off when we get that benefit?

zozbot234 5y ago
That's not a bad thing by any means. It's making the best of a bad situation (non-democratic governments that are, to varying extents, anti-West) by incenting those governments to cooperate with the West on open alternatives to proprietary IP. Since such cooperation would basically never happen if it wasn't for the open IP-alternatives being available (they would develop proprietary IP of their own instead, as we've seen so many times already!) I'd call that a pretty good deal!
Wesxdz 5y ago
Sounds like a soft vulnerable world hypothesis. I think it's training, collaboration, motivation, and funding of engineers that really matters though. I think what's happening in Ukraine shows that as long as brain drain happens it doesn't matter if knowledge is open because it cannot be used effectively.
hajile 5y ago
They already did designs based on Alpha and MIPS ISAs. That genie definitely isn’t going back into the bottle. Instead, we’ve moved to limit their ability to manufacture. All the chip plans in the world are worthless if you can’t fabricate them. ASML was largely funded with US DoD money and they seem to have veto power when it comes to exports. Russia’s cutting edge tech is something like 180nm with promised for 90/65nm still being pipe dreams. China has managed small amounts of 32nm and talks about 22/14nm stuff, but they can’t get new equipment and all of that is mostly gleaned from the US outsourcing so much. This puts these countries 10-20 years behind and that’s if we don’t consider the nodes that are essentially complete, but waiting on the resources to build them out.

Aardwolf 5y ago

I love the look of it! Those rotating knobs look great to use compared to fiddly buttons or touch interfaces. No matter how "modern" touch interfaces are, the human body doesn't change and benefits from tactile feedback and immediate control (I don't know what the knobs do but if it's for example brightness, that's fantastic! I got a monitor that makes it harder to change brightness, than to enable a gaming crosshair...)

gangstead 5y ago
The knobs on the side? They turn a quarter turn and the front and back half of the housing come apart.
- smilespray 5y ago
  What? I thought they were programmable. That would have been a selling point for me. This is like the classic home button on an iPhone being a tool for detaching the screen from the back of the phone.

pingsl 5y ago

I am very excited to see the RISC-V devices come to the end users. Then I am thinking how this device could fit into my daily life. I am wondering what are the typical scanrios for portable computers these days?

snvzz 5y ago
A portable computer people tend to fit into their daily life is their smartphone. Android RISC-V port was demonstrated over a year ago. I fully expect some RISC-V smartphones will hit the market as soon as chips with high performance cores are ready. Realistically, that means RVA22 (TBA in spring) + 6 month (assuming best case scenario immediate tapeout) + whatever time it takes to validate such a device built around the new chip. I would say 2023H1, if I had to guess.
throwaway81523 5y ago
I use a small laptop for pretty much all my daily life stuff. I do have a phone that I use for occasional mobile web access, navigation, etc. but my main computer is a laptop. I rarely browse or surf with the phone. I'd like to have a small linux tablet that I can use familiar dev tools on, but the inkplate 10 looks more attractive to me than this weird slab-like thing. The slab thing inherits too much from gaming devices, imho. Nothing wrong with gaming if that's what you're into, but the TRS-100 of yore was revered as a writing device and its keyboard was better suited for that purpos.

butterisgood 5y ago

Looks like neck pain waiting to happen

jbirer 5y ago

This is a very dangerous precedent for RISC-V. Allwinner is known as a champion in GPL violations, obfuscating technical details and keeping binary blobs. This defeats the entire purpose of RISC-V and creates an environment similar to what is now for ARM (everything locked down, everything opaque). The advertisement is basically false advertisement, this is no computer for "free hackers" but another locked down SCB with a non free core.

ngcc_hk 5y ago

Btw nearly buy one as I love the design. But the more I read here, I stop myself. But that design is great.

ngcc_hk 5y ago

Problem of Arm is not arm itself. Competition especially now with apple there meant they cannot close themselves to free software. The problem of arm is their peripheral like gpu (Pi). For RISC-v, on top of worry it is (a) all just trying to support a 10xrussian empire to be so no sanction later; (b) only the hardware guy concern address and even that a bit … we are still face all these bob of non-open things. Why bother? Helping evil?

deleted 5y ago

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