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Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

214 points by stvnitt 5y ago

sircastor 5y ago
I once explained to a coworker that I brought in some soda that day because the diet soda at work was expired. They were skeptical and we proceeded to go down to the cafe to setup a blind taste test. I passed with flying colors and we had an interesting conversation about it. It was a fun 20 minutes of not working.
- geocrasher 5y ago
  You weren't goofing off, you were applying the scientific method while at the same time engaging in team building. I'm not even kidding. That incidental silliness is valuable. A year later, you run across a problem where a customer explains a problem you don't understand, and then you have a flashback to that time when you did a blind taste test. You look at your colleague and whisper "Hey, remember that blind taste test we did that time?" and their eyes light up.
  - okokwhatever 5y ago
    I really loved your point of view. Really, we need more of this.
  - Groxx 5y ago
    A bit of ridiculous goes a loooong way. Embrace the weird and fun.
  - lupire 5y ago
    Per the other thread, they were "goofing on".
Scoundreller 5y ago
> aspartame has a half-life of about 300 days in solution at about pH 4, about the pH of soft drinks, but half life means that half if it as gone by that time. And if the cans are exposed to a hot storeroom or stored in a warm summer garage, they may deteriorate faster. And they deteriorate a lot slower at cold temperatures. Hydrolysis practically stops if you freeze it.
- chrisco255 5y ago
  Unfortunately freezing a can or bottle of soda introduces a different problem entirely.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    I would expect freezing a plastic bottle would be okay. We do it all the time with water. Which isn't exactly the same, I know.
    - bwilliams18 5y ago
      The carbonation is the difference. It will explode as it becomes a slush and make a massive mess.
      - geocrasher 5y ago
        And if it survives, it's just totally flat afterward.
        enraged_camel 5y ago
        This hasn’t been my experience with Diet Coke I’ve accidentally left in the freezer overnight. As long as I let it sit on the counter and thaw over the course of a few hours, it retains its carbonation, or at least some of it.
        MertsA 5y ago
        So long as you don't open the bottle before it has had time to redissolve the CO2 while being nice and cool you should be fine. Same thing applies to shaken or heated soda, so long as the CO2 doesn't leave the bottle it's reversible no problem.
      - jnwatson 5y ago
        That just happened to me. I left a 2 liter in the freezer. I then transferred it to the fridge, thinking the gradual temperature change would be fine. I woke to a strange sound. The bottle had blown the fridge door open, a large gash down the side of the bottle, soda slush everywhere. It took me an hour to clean the fridge.
ChuckMcM 5y ago
Awesome! As someone who used to drink a lot of Diet Dr. Pepper (DDP) I could easily tell how close a given can (or bottle) was to its "use by" date. This makes for a great party trick [1] but otherwise has limited utility. It also made for some socially awkward situations where, when visiting friends, they would want to have drinks on hand that their guests like and would go out of their way to get some DDP for me, not checking the date, and then serve out of date soda which tasted horrible. Not surprising the rate of hydrolysis is temperature dependent so if you keep things refrigerated they last longer, but if you leave them out on the back porch in the summer where they get warm they go 'non-sweet' relatively quickly. I switched to water (or tea if I want caffeine) with diet sweetener in packets (which doesn't go bad because no pesky water to 'unzip' it). I wrote to the Dr. Pepper company once and suggested they design their beverage so that the sweetener was dry and only released when you opened it (I got the idea from the way the Guinness folks started selling Guinness in cans with a gizmo to put a head on it when opened. Alas, nobody at the company was interested in "fixing" a non-problem, they responded (nicely) that I should just be sure to check the date and included a coupon for a free six pack. Of course at that time (and is still true around Reno) the bottler doesn't use an easily readable date code so it isn't much of a solution. [1] And by "great" I mean the nerds all are fascinated by it and the non-nerds were nominally repulsed that someone could have such familiarity with the hydrolysis profile as to call it out by taste.
- sircastor 5y ago
  Your note about the sweetener packets makes me curious if diet soda syrup lasts longer. This has been a reason for me to hold off on putting together my own carbonation setup as, in spite of how much soda I drink, I still don’t think I could move through the requisite 2.5 gallons of syrup before the expiration date hit. I wonder if the aspartame suffers the same hydrolysis in syrup.
  - ChuckMcM 5y ago
    It does! (less water, so less hydrolysis) "name brand" syrup however isn't particularly economical at retail however[1]. Not too surprisingly there has been a rash of restaurant bankruptcies during the pandemic and so buying "used" soda fountain gear is actually pretty easy (at least in the western US) these days. I actually have an Elkay "water machine" which does carbonation (as well as chilled and not chilled still water) although its carbonation chamber is too small to give a good fizz like the commercial units do. (more Perrier like, less fountain soda like). That said there are also relatively few powder mixes that take into account carbonated water. There was an AWESOME Grape Crush one (that was sugar free) but since it tasted poorly when mixed with still water it was discontinued (having a soda water tap is not the normal situation). One of the more interesting ideas (and also impractical) are the "mini-syrups" that are used in the multi-beverage dispensers with the touch screen at places like Movie Theaters. Good luck getting hold of those. I briefly had a line on getting them from a local AMC because I knew the manager who wasn't averse to re-selling them to me at cost but she changed jobs when the pandemic made theaters non-viable. The existing Coke branded dispensers are so loaded up with various DRM/telemetry that even if you can get one at auction (which you normally can't since they are leased, not sold) it would be quite the reverse engineering process to get it to work "disconnected" from the Coke network. [1] Funny story about how I spent four months trying to buy Diet Dr. Pepper syrup at the "restaurant" rate (which was about 1/4th the "retail" rate) elided.
zainhoda 5y ago
Recently I went to my office for the first time since the pandemic started. The Diet Coke in the office fridge tasted HORRIBLE.
- zerocrates 5y ago
  Had the same experience briefly returning to an office last year, some very unappetizing Coke Zero. I don't know how much Ace-K differs in this regard or if there's not really enough to matter but... not good. Was not really something I previously thought of as really expiring in any meaningful sense.
  - gpcr1949 5y ago
    Acesulfame K is not sensitive to degradation at coke pH. In addition to acesulfame K coke zero reportedly contains aspartame as well so that was probably the cause of the off-taste.
- coldtea 5y ago
  Sorry, that was me. Had a Zoom meeting and couldn't leave the kitchen where the meeting's start found me for like 3 hours.
  - theGeatZhopa 5y ago
    DON'T EAT THE CHOCOLATE MUFFIN！
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  Could it be that you just didn't drink cola for a long time? I haven't really drank any soft drink in few years and whenever I try it just tastes like very sugary water to me. And I used to drink a lot of cola in the past.
narag 5y ago
I noticed a similar thing with regular Coca Cola years ago. Some PET 2 l bottles went stale and tasted terribly, like mold. Other people thought that it wasn't so bad, but did detect the bad taste after being told about it. I suspected it was an effect of sunlight on sugar, but had no way to know for sure. Nobody would admit that the bottles were transported or stored in inadequate conditions either. Then I quit regular coke and later diet coke too, so no idea if it's still a problem.
- eitland 5y ago
  Here in Norway I think "Pepsi Max" was the gold standard for years while diet Coca Cola mostly sold because of the brand name. Then something happened: Coca Cola launched Zero and after a few iterations it tasted good! Meanwhile Pepsi Max always yaste stale now since the start of the pandemic or something. I don't really know what happened and it could just be my taste changing but I don't think so.
  - tapland 5y ago
    Same observation in Sweden. So I'm not going crazy! Not sure if our Pepsi is bottled in the same place, but our Coca Cola isn't.
    - towb 5y ago
      Carlsberg Sverige and Ringnes AS (also Carlsberg), I'm guessing it's made locally. Haven't notice anything with the Swedish Pepsi max and I'm drinking _a lot_ of it. Didn't get the flu yet so my taste buds should be good! Coke zero got a lot better after the new recipe if you ask me but still a Pepsi guy :)
      - eitland 5y ago
        I drank a lot of Pepsi Max since 2006 to sometime just before the pandemic when I started feeling the difference. Recently I have only tried the ones from Norway since the border has been closed for so long && local shops have reduced prices to Swedish levels for now, but the Pepsi Max I get here all tastes stale now across all shops and all bottle sizes I have tested.
jorblumesea 5y ago
Some of us can't even drink the "good" tasting aspartame due to genetic factors. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39135 https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39135
- behringer 5y ago
  Aspertame is a bit of acquired taste, tho it would not surprise me if some people can't acquire the taste for it
- aviditas 5y ago
  I'm one of those and have difficulties with most bitter drinks as well so the problem compounds as I have to have more sugar than most to drink coffee or nonherbal teas. I found that the sugar free off brand winco red bull doesn't trigger the same sour/bitter for me which is great. I still stick with water, milk, barley tea, and hot cocoa (I make my own mix) for the most part.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  That's me. I can take one sip of diet soda and then the aftertaste kills me.
- Groxx 5y ago
  I wonder what the genetic factor is for stevia, because oh boy does that taste awful. Aspartame is unpleasant, but stevia is something else entirely. About the only diet sweeteners that taste sweet to me are xylitol and saccharin, and they're hard to find outside their niches (gum/mints and coffee sweetener). Kinda sucks tbh.
- dagw 5y ago
  I know lots of people claim that Coke Zero tastes "basically" the same as normal Coke, but to me it was literally the most disgusting soda I have ever tastes. Far worse than even Coke light for some reason.
  - anfilt 5y ago
    Yea, I am in the same boat I find diet sodas taste disgusting.
eitland 5y ago
> If you unzip aspartame into the two amino acids and remove that methyl to become methanol, you have a tasteless mixture of pretty harmless compounds. I'm somewhat surprised nobody has commented on this yet, so let me point it out: methanol is not harmless! It causes blindness or death. (I don't say diet soda is harmful, only that methanol is.)
- ChuckMcM 5y ago
  Your statement about the toxicology of methanol is correct, but as the article alludes too, and the referenced paper goes into detail on, the dosage is below the point where it harms people. (I don't recall off hand if they considered an infant being fed an entire can of soda in the paper so I'm not going to say that as a blanket statement) As for the toxicology limit. If the maximum amount of methanol has been created by all of the aspartame "unzipping" even if you consumed the whole can your does will be lower than the amount needed to create harmful effects. Additionally, sodas in this state taste like crap, so unless you have no taste sensors at all you won't drink more than a gulp which lowers the dosage still further. But that there can be methanol in an out of date soda has been the go to reason a friend of mine never drinks sugar free soda. And frankly I can respect that choice.
  - eitland 5y ago
    I suspected this could be the case which is why I included my disclaimer at the end :-) Still I felt a warning was in order when someone calls methanol a harmless compound because that is absolutely not true.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    Is damage from methanol not cumulative? My understanding is that it rubberizes nerve and brain tissue.
    - ChuckMcM 5y ago
      Apparently not at the levels of hydrolyzed aspartame: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482121/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482121/
ddtaylor 5y ago
Is the "jury still out" on Aspertame causing health problems like cancer?
- INTPenis 5y ago
  Problem is that it's not alone on the market. These new proteinbars that are flooding stores here in Sweden have a careful balance of THREE different sweeteners just to get away with the low sugar content. They do taste amazing but I'm skeptical to anything unnatural.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  No. Aspartame is one of the most studied and tested substances on the planet and they still haven't linked a single problem to it. At least not one that doesn't relate to sweeteners in general. Nothing else has gone under so much scrutiny (Maybe MSG). Seems like a too good to be true situation where people can't accept its actually this good.
  - blurker 5y ago
    Can you provide a source or explain how you came to the conclusion that it is one of the most studied substances on the planet? Personally I'm not worried about aspartame. I consume it in small amounts and am not overly concerned, but this statement goes beyond the facts I'm aware of. Update: I found a source, the FDA says that: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/additional-information-about-high-intensity-sweeteners-permitted-use-food-united-states https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/additional... I had heard that about. Msg, but not aspartame. Til!
    - iamricks 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
  - Ilverin 5y ago
    It causes higher blood pressure and is statistically associated with heart problems. https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/do-you-really-need-that-diet-soda https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/do-you-really...
ck2 5y ago
Diet soda and artificial sweeteners is a gateway crutch. Took years to stop drinking soda and decade of diet but finally kicked it. Worth the effort and recommended. Everyone is quick to hand wave "doesn't cause cancer" blah blah but what they hop and skip over is it definitely changes gut microbe for the worse.
- colordrops 5y ago
  What are your thoughts on soda water?
  - mmastrac 5y ago
    I love soda water but the last study I read suggested it was carbonation that should be avoided. I still drink it.
    - andi999 5y ago
      Can you find the source? I doubt that carbonation is a problem.
      - pivo 5y ago
        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17023723/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17023723/ Apparently some association to low bone density in women.
        andi999 5y ago
        Well, this one supports the phosphoric acid bad thing, but not the carbonated being bad idea.
      - mmastrac 5y ago
        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28228348/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28228348/ Carbon dioxide in carbonated beverages induces ghrelin release and increased food consumption in male rats: Implications on the onset of obesity
sgt 5y ago
Never saw the point of diet sodas. I'd much rather drink normal coke with proper sugar in it. It's unhealthy, yes - so drink slightly less.
- Gareth321 5y ago
  This is my life motto: eat well but portion wisely. I like butter. I like sugar. I like McDonalds, and cream, and cheese. So I eat these things, but only in moderation. I don't worry about trying to trick my tastebuds into thinking food tastes good. To me, artificial sweeteners taste bitter and wholly unpleasant. I would rather just drink water than drink diet soda. Indeed, I drink soda very rarely now, but once every few weeks a real coca cola is quite delicious.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    > So I eat these things, but only in moderation I've found this is difficult for me. It's much easier to not eat those foods at all than to hope to only eat "a little". A mitigation is only buying very small packs, but that's not always practical.
    - Gareth321 5y ago
      Good point. I still struggle with myself not to eat the whole packet. I guess I've grown to enjoy the battle of wills and the sense of satisfaction of winning each time.
- chithanh 5y ago
  Sugary soda is associated with no better or worse health outcomes than diet soda. In fact both are similarly bad for you. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2749350 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Surely 40g of sugar if you do not need all that energy is worse than 0g of sugar. Almost every advancement in dietary knowledge I have see over my life has indicated more and more that excess sugar (and carbs in general) is by far the biggest problem all over the world. And it is trivial to consume excess carbs with a modern lifestyle in a developed country.
thrown_22 5y ago
>Later, when he licked his fingers to turn a page, he discovered a very sweet taste. Since he realized that the compound he made was unlikely to be toxic, he tasted it and found it extremely sweet indeed. In fact, aspartame is about 200 times as sweet by weight as sugar. This is horrifying.
- acuozzo 5y ago
  If you think this is horrifying, then I'd suggest reading the origin story of Sucralose.
- medstrom 5y ago
  Explain?
  - thrown_22 5y ago
    What if it had been toxic?
    - purpleidea 5y ago
      Then we might not have discovered it yet.
    - medstrom 5y ago
      >he realized that the compound he made was unlikely to be toxic
- avnigo 5y ago
  I guess lab safety wasn't what it is now. Serendipitous discovery, but it could've gone much worse.
theGeatZhopa 5y ago
Stop drinking coke! It's not well for you. Especially when you get older. The problem lies within the phosphoric acid added in plenty amounts. It's not exactly only coca cola's problem, but it adds up. Phosphorus is been added everywhere - from Sausages (e.g. the one in hot dogs. Or, The one's intended to be grilled like the GERMAN SAUSAGE) to muffins. I think, it's called sometimes backing soda - the powder you add to make cakes or croissants fluffy. Not to compare with the Natrium bicarbonate which is ok .. So the phosphorus is needed for every living cell. Essential for the live developed. The problem: We need phosphorus to build our bones. Phosphorus reacts with Calcium and they build up salt difficult to dissolve back to calcium and phosphorus. Usually, that will be incorporated into our bones and makes the bone's structure and fillings. The problem starts when you grew older and your kidneys worsen. It still can be enough to clean your blood, but give a possibility for phosphorus to accumulate slowly in your blood. With too much phosphorus in your blood, your body tries to regulate that - as your kidneys can't do the work properly anymore, there's is just one way: going through the Calcium-phosphate-double-circle-regulation. That means, if one is having to much phosphorus in the blood, your body start to produce a hormone that stimulates releasing more calcium into your blood to bind that phosphorus. The calcium comes out of the Bones. They get easy broken like glass. and.. the bound phosphorus and calcium are in your blood vessels. Difficult to dissolve back. Cluttering the vessels. That's one of the reasons for arteriosclerosis and insults. But also for the elder getting blind (Makula degenerative illness) and deaf (I think). A lot of people have that. So. I stopped consuming anything with added phosphate contents. Thank me later.
- amelius 5y ago
  Is phosphorus in standard blood tests? Could a calcium supplement help?
  - theGeatZhopa 5y ago
    You can have it measured by the concentrations of phosphates in your blood. Also, the hormone, Parathormone can be measured. But both are part of the big blood test. Indirectly, you also can measure the function of your kidneys.. but.. it may still be high enough for the doctors not to react.. Otherwise... If you're on dialysis, you have 200% sure high levels of phosphorus Supplement of calcium could Help as to much of Calcium in blood will also induce the counter reaction by pulling to much of the phosphorus into the bones. They will get to dense. Also an effect you don't want
PostThisTooFast 5y ago
271828182846 5y ago
I don't get the concept of diet soda. If you consume something unhealthy - shouldn't it at least taste good? Or is it some sort of self-punishment?
- topspin 5y ago
  I used to dislike the taste of all diet soda, but something changed and now most of them are fine; I really don't miss real sugar soda anymore.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  I quite like Coke Zero, although I admit that regular Coke does taste somewhat better. However, my reason for drinking diet Coke is that sometimes I feel like drinking soda, but if I can limit the damage done (by sugar, since I'm trying to lose weight), might as well do it. Sure, no soda at all is best, but I think this is one of those cases which aren't all black or all white.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- xxs 5y ago
  The unhealthy part is mostly the caffeine, not the aspartame, itself. That being said - I don't get the 'soda' at all. It's worse than plain water, juice (no extra sugars), espresso, and beer.
  - the_af 5y ago
    Well, let me give you my perspective: I hate beer and also have some sort of allergic reaction to it (I don't mind, since I don't like it anyway). Water has no taste, so unless I'm drinking merely to quench my thirst, it's not what I want. Juice is too much work and many juices "out of the fruit" without added sugar are also bad for you, e.g. orange juice. Most dentists and nutritionists now do not recommend drinking orange juice except very occasionally (then again, of course they don't recommend soda drinks either). I love espresso and drink it way too often, but it's not a refreshing drink like Diet Coke is, and also it's not good for you either (in excess). I probably drink way too much espresso and Diet Coke.
jbirer 5y ago
Some time ago I could tell something was really off about the taste of my diet soda even though it was way before it's expiry date. I was able to find out some storage irregularities with the shop I was buying from and call CC on them. Turns out they were also doing a lot of stupid things like taking meat freezers out of socket overnight to reduce energy consumption.
- ramchip 5y ago
  What's CC? Health inspection?
  - medstrom 5y ago
    CDC (Centers for Disease Control) maybe?
  - poizan42 5y ago
    The local County Council perhaps? Seems they are the ones responsible for food safety in the UK.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      But we don't say 'soda' (for the same usage). (And 'call CC on them' seems an unlikely phrasing to me, though you're correct that (a department of) the county council would probably be the port of call.)
  - daurnimator 5y ago
    coca-cola?
- lupire 5y ago
  Was it in hot weather? could accelerate reacrions.
surfsvammel 5y ago
Every soft drink I’ve had since COVID have tasted off. So. If your drinks taste off, that might also be the explanation.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  Ugh, same here. While my taste and smell has somewhat come back. One month out and it's still not back to normal.
  - the_af 5y ago
    Not to worry you, but like I said in the sibling comment, it's been almost a year and while I recovered my sense of smell and taste, it's not exactly the same as before COVID.
- the_af 5y ago
  You may be onto something. After I had COVID and recovered my sense of smell, I found things didn't smell or taste exactly the same as before. Drinks, especially coffee, doesn't smell exactly the same as before, for example. And I had COVID almost a year ago, so it's not like I recovered yesterday.
- randcraw 5y ago
  That's really interesting. That suggests that taste may be a calibrated sense, where signals come from multiple sensors and are 'gathered' into the final perception. Probably some of your taste buds and olfactory sensors are less sensitive after covid, or may even respond differently, producing a different mix of signals. To return to normal, I suspect the lagging sensors will need to fully revive. I wonder if there's a way to retrain sensory organs, to shape your perception of flavor, perhaps the way that oenophiles teach someone to taste wine more sensitively and meaningfully. Can one learn to deconvolute the the signals of taste?
  - surfsvammel 5y ago
    I believe my kids have a similar situation. They have been really picky with food since COVID. We actually talked to a paediatrician (is that what they are called?) about it. He said it seemed to be very common right now. Also suggested that we should try to give the kids lots of different tastes, textures, temperatures etc. I guess to “train” the sense again? I don’t know. Seems a bit unscientific. But who knows.
keiferski 5y ago
Off topic, but the headline made me realize that something “tasting off” is sort of an unpaired expression. We don’t say that normal drinks “taste on.” An unpaired word is one that, according to the usual rules of the language, would appear to have a related word but does not. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpaired_word https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpaired_word
- zomglings 5y ago
  It may be unpaired in American English but maybe not in non-American dialects of English? Have heard people from Great Britain say things like "x is on" before with roughly the opposite meaning as how we use "y is off".
  - keiferski 5y ago
    I don’t have much direct experience with British English but do people really say the soda tastes on to mean the soda tastes fine?
    - have_faith 5y ago
      No we don't say that. We would only say that it tastes off. We really only use the opposite with regards to events, this event is on, Daniell's birthday surprise is on, etc.
      - keiferski 5y ago
        Right, the usage is the same in the US. If an event is proceeding ahead as planned, it’s on.
      - furiens 5y ago
        As well as an event, a drink on tap can be ‘on’ or ‘off’, to refer to its availability.
  - shawabawa3 5y ago
    Not sure if it's only the UK but we also use "up" and "down" as synonyms in some sitations. e.g. "I'm up for going to the pub" and "I'm down for going to the pub" mean the same thing
ivanstame 5y ago
I refuse to drink diet/zero coke, since it's disgusting probably because of artificial sweeteners...
qwertyuiop_ 5y ago
I have also noticed significant reduction in carbonation of Coke and Pepsi. 2-3 years ago it would hit the spot so to speak. Now they taste flat as if they have been sitting out all day. Wild thought was they are doing this to reduce “co2” emissions :)
- gilrain 5y ago
  The CO2 for carbonation is generally a captured byproduct of the fertilizer industry. It’s carbon neutral.
aaron695 5y ago
Pooge 5y ago
Sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but whenever I drink Coca-Cola Zero, I get a bit dizzy. It doesn't happen with other soda like Pepsi Zero. I've read somewhere that aspartame is much stronger than sugar. For the life of me, I can't find any references I stumbled upon when I searched about it, but has any of you had the same symptoms?
- jupiter90000 5y ago
  Aspartame makes me dizzy, even a little bit like from gum containing it. I have to abstain.
- schipplock 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_drink#Amount_of_artificial_sweeteners_in_diet_soft_drinks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_drink#Amount_of_artificia... Pepsi Max contains more of Aspartame compared to Coke Zero. Stop drinking this garbage :). Drink water and tea.
  - Pooge 5y ago
    > Drink water and tea. Yup. Stopped drinking anything else than water (sometimes with syrup), sparkling water, and tea.
  - iamricks 5y ago
    There is nothing wrong with Aspartame, and no amount of diet soda will even come close to dangerous levels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
    - Pooge 5y ago
      Probably, but I'd rather drink only water and tea. Considering how bad I feel after just a bottle of Coca-Cola Zero, I'd rather not try it again and stick with natural drinks. I think we've allowed our society to become addict to sugar, and I don't think Aspartame is our savior.
anfilt 5y ago
I can't stand diet soda's they always taste off. I a lot these artificial sweeteners gross/disgusting.
- iamricks 5y ago
  You might be used to really sugary drinks, i was an obese child and once my nutritionist took away regular coke and juices from me i couldn't drink a sugary drink without feeling disgusted at how sweet it was and artificial sweeteners tasted a lot better.
  - leeter 5y ago
    There are actually genetic reasons that some percentage of the population tastes both common artificial sweeteners as bitter https://academic.oup.com/chemse/article/38/5/379/360864?login=true https://academic.oup.com/chemse/article/38/5/379/360864?logi... It's related to why some people taste Cilantro as soap too.
hilbert42 5y ago
What an excellent article. For me, it's also a timely discussion in that a short while ago (from my records on August 19 2019) I was looking at the Wikipedia article on aspartame when I realized that there was a significant error on the page. The skeletal formula was correct but the ball-and-stick model was incorrect in that it had an extra hydrogen tacked onto the aspartic acid group—the NH2 was misrepresented as NH3. Being somewhat surprised at the error—as one would have thought that both representations would have been generated in the same software, Avogadro etc., thus the error should have occurred in both or not at all—so I dug a little deeper. I recalled that I had previously visited Wiki's Aspartame page some years back so I went looking to see if I had kept a copy of the page and sure enough I had saved it (it's not unusual for me to save Wiki pages). Anyway, upon reexamination of the earlier page, I found that the ball-and-stick formula was also incorrect therein. Clearly, I'd not noticed the error back then. The date of that earlier viewing was April 5, 2012, so the Wikipedia page has had that blatant error present for over 9 years—it could be much longer as I never checked when the page was originally posted! Given both its notoriety and controversy, how could such a large mistake exist in this Aspartame page for so long without anyone noticing it? I then tried to correct the error. I attempted to edit the page only to be informed that my domain was unacceptable and so I could not do so. I then resorted to contacting Wiki by other means and informing them of the error and they corrected fault within hours. If anyone has a reasonable explanation for why this error could exist so long on Wiki without being corrected then I'd love to know. Moreover, why would only the balls-and-stick be in error when it is normal for both representations to be generated on a common piece of software? Second Matter: "Searle patented this product, naming it Nutrisweet and Equal. Officially, aspartame has a half-life of about 300 days in solution at about pH 4, about the pH of soft drinks, but half life means that half if it as gone by that time. And if the cans are exposed to a hot storeroom or stored in a warm summer garage, they may deteriorate faster." I'd rarely have the opportunity to drink 'old' artificially sweetened drinks of this sort. First I don't drink many of them, and second, I only buy them in the supermarket where there's a very fast turnover of stock. That said, I find Diet Coca Cola unbearably sweet and almost undrinkable when its chilled and completely undrinkable when warm, the others, Zero etc., I find so sweet that they're undrinkable under any conditions. Could it be that drink manufactures are actually increasing sweetness past the so-called 'bliss point' to allow for the deterioration/aging of aspartame? Perhaps they're aiming for some 'ideal' or average date past manufacture where the maximum number of punters would likely be consuming the stuff. Does anyone know or have factual information about such matters?
refurb 5y ago
Random story - I met the chemist who worked at Searle and whose job it was to come up with a way to purify aspartame on an industrial scale. Normally purifying things like pharmaceuticals can be challenging, but as long as impurities are under 0.5%, generally they are acceptable (some have lower limits). But with aspartame it had to be much cleaner since small impurities would ruin the taste. So it had nothing to do with safety but more quality of the final product. He banged his head against the wall until they came up with a process that consistently have high quality product as measured by taste.
duffyjp 5y ago
I had left an almost full case of Diet Pepsi at work went we were sent home for COVID. Over a year later when allowed back I opened up the work fridge and grabbed a can. Due to masking and still being quite nervous about the virus I basically slammed it so I could re-mask faster. Big mistake, it was awful. Thanks for explaining why!
contidrift 5y ago
If aspartame was't invented as an ant-killer, it certainly works as one! Dust some ants with it and see what happens.
- MertsA 5y ago
  Plenty of people did and found that it did not do anything to them. The origin of the claim that aspartame is an ant poison was this article. https://www.thespoof.com/spoof-news/science-technology/11213/fda-certifies-aspartame-as-ant-poison https://www.thespoof.com/spoof-news/science-technology/11213... There is no evidence of aspartame being harmful to ants. Dust them with some black pepper and see what happens.
  - contidrift 5y ago
    My evidence is what I saw with my own eyes. Specifically, I used a pack of canderel, if anyone would like to repeat the experiment.
bradhoffman 5y ago
Similar topic, but after having COVID and losing my taste and smell for a few weeks, all carbonated sodas "taste off" for me. I've talked to a few people who have had similar experiences and after a year later, all of my regular Cokes still taste off :/
- gradschool 5y ago
  I was thinking about this yesterday when reading that some people with long covid experience the smell of meat as that of decaying dead flesh, which none of us wants to hear but is not technically wrong. Could it be that whereas we're socialized toward certain perceptions, a disorderly shutdown of the senses causes something like a reboot to factory settings?
hankchinaski 5y ago
slightly unrelated, but i read mixed opinions on the safety of aspartame. Is there anyone knowledgeable in the field who has research proving one way or the other? I rarely consume sodas, I just don't know whether it's safer to consume artificially sweetened ones or standard ones. The literature on the topic seems conflicting and incomplete
- iamricks 5y ago
  It is propaganda, read through this wiki[1] and see how far people have gone to create propaganda against it. It's one of the most researched ingredients by the FDA. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
  - chihuahua 5y ago
    It seems there are a lot of studies where the author starts with the conviction that Aspartame is "bad", and designs a study to "prove" it. For example, "what if we give these lab rats a massively excessive dose of Aspartame every day for a year, and then check if that harmed them"
    - alphager 5y ago
      Isn't that just normal study design? Formulate a hypothesis (in this case "Aspartame bad"), design a test, find out if hypothesis was correct.
      - chihuahua 5y ago
        You are right that my comment as written did not do a good job of explaining what it is about these studies that seems fishy to me. So I thank you for responding to it and making me examine my opinion in more detail. Someone else already responded to you and provided a much better explanation. There is always something that rubs me the wrong way about these studies that set out to prove that artificial sweeteners are bad. It's intuitively appealing: it seems too easy that we can just replace sugar with these harmless chemicals and then it tastes mostly the same but without the calories or bad metabolic effects of sugar. But artificial sweeteners have been studied for decades, especially Aspartame, and as far as I know they appear to be harmless, outside of the Gwyneth Paltrow universe. So it seems to me that some people still have an axe to grind with these artificial sweeteners, and try to bend science to their will.
pmarreck 5y ago
I can't wait for soft drinks to come out that use Allulose as a sweetener https://www.chicagobusiness.com/consumer-products/new-sugar-substitute-sounds-almost-too-good-be-true https://www.chicagobusiness.com/consumer-products/new-sugar-...
oversocialized 5y ago
Lol at all these big coke and sugar shills in this thread. Read Sugar Blues and You All Have Sanpaku. Sugar is bad for your body. Sodastream carbonation is bad for teeth and supports Israel's occupation in the west bank. Best play is to ween off it completely. First start with sugar beverages (and alcohol if you drink). Once that is kicked, look at the artificially added sugar in foods.
peanut_worm 5y ago
I think there has to be a certain part of the population that is sensitive to the taste of non-sugar sweeteners. A lot of people I asked said they can’t tell the difference but to me they all taste bitter or metallic, even stevia and agave. monkfruit is the only sweeter than sugar sweetener that doesn’t taste bitter to me. From my understanding it is different compounds that cause the bad taste for each sweetener, but I suppose people might be sensitive to some more than others. I wonder why it is that only sugar does not produce the bad flavor.
easton_s 5y ago
After getting covid Pepsi Max tastes off.

214 points by stvnitt 5y ago

I once explained to a coworker that I brought in some soda that day because the diet soda at work was expired. They were skeptical and we proceeded to go down to the cafe to setup a blind taste test. I passed with flying colors and we had an interesting conversation about it. It was a fun 20 minutes of not working.

geocrasher 5y ago
You weren't goofing off, you were applying the scientific method while at the same time engaging in team building. I'm not even kidding. That incidental silliness is valuable. A year later, you run across a problem where a customer explains a problem you don't understand, and then you have a flashback to that time when you did a blind taste test. You look at your colleague and whisper "Hey, remember that blind taste test we did that time?" and their eyes light up.
- okokwhatever 5y ago
  I really loved your point of view. Really, we need more of this.
- Groxx 5y ago
  A bit of ridiculous goes a loooong way. Embrace the weird and fun.
- lupire 5y ago
  Per the other thread, they were "goofing on".

Scoundreller 5y ago

> aspartame has a half-life of about 300 days in solution at about pH 4, about the pH of soft drinks, but half life means that half if it as gone by that time. And if the cans are exposed to a hot storeroom or stored in a warm summer garage, they may deteriorate faster. And they deteriorate a lot slower at cold temperatures. Hydrolysis practically stops if you freeze it.

chrisco255 5y ago
Unfortunately freezing a can or bottle of soda introduces a different problem entirely.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I would expect freezing a plastic bottle would be okay. We do it all the time with water. Which isn't exactly the same, I know.
  - bwilliams18 5y ago
    The carbonation is the difference. It will explode as it becomes a slush and make a massive mess.
    - geocrasher 5y ago
      And if it survives, it's just totally flat afterward.
      - enraged_camel 5y ago
        This hasn’t been my experience with Diet Coke I’ve accidentally left in the freezer overnight. As long as I let it sit on the counter and thaw over the course of a few hours, it retains its carbonation, or at least some of it.
      - MertsA 5y ago
        So long as you don't open the bottle before it has had time to redissolve the CO2 while being nice and cool you should be fine. Same thing applies to shaken or heated soda, so long as the CO2 doesn't leave the bottle it's reversible no problem.
    - jnwatson 5y ago
      That just happened to me. I left a 2 liter in the freezer. I then transferred it to the fridge, thinking the gradual temperature change would be fine. I woke to a strange sound. The bottle had blown the fridge door open, a large gash down the side of the bottle, soda slush everywhere. It took me an hour to clean the fridge.

ChuckMcM 5y ago

Awesome! As someone who used to drink a lot of Diet Dr. Pepper (DDP) I could easily tell how close a given can (or bottle) was to its "use by" date. This makes for a great party trick [1] but otherwise has limited utility. It also made for some socially awkward situations where, when visiting friends, they would want to have drinks on hand that their guests like and would go out of their way to get some DDP for me, not checking the date, and then serve out of date soda which tasted horrible. Not surprising the rate of hydrolysis is temperature dependent so if you keep things refrigerated they last longer, but if you leave them out on the back porch in the summer where they get warm they go 'non-sweet' relatively quickly. I switched to water (or tea if I want caffeine) with diet sweetener in packets (which doesn't go bad because no pesky water to 'unzip' it). I wrote to the Dr. Pepper company once and suggested they design their beverage so that the sweetener was dry and only released when you opened it (I got the idea from the way the Guinness folks started selling Guinness in cans with a gizmo to put a head on it when opened. Alas, nobody at the company was interested in "fixing" a non-problem, they responded (nicely) that I should just be sure to check the date and included a coupon for a free six pack. Of course at that time (and is still true around Reno) the bottler doesn't use an easily readable date code so it isn't much of a solution. [1] And by "great" I mean the nerds all are fascinated by it and the non-nerds were nominally repulsed that someone could have such familiarity with the hydrolysis profile as to call it out by taste.

sircastor 5y ago
Your note about the sweetener packets makes me curious if diet soda syrup lasts longer. This has been a reason for me to hold off on putting together my own carbonation setup as, in spite of how much soda I drink, I still don’t think I could move through the requisite 2.5 gallons of syrup before the expiration date hit. I wonder if the aspartame suffers the same hydrolysis in syrup.
- ChuckMcM 5y ago
  It does! (less water, so less hydrolysis) "name brand" syrup however isn't particularly economical at retail however[1]. Not too surprisingly there has been a rash of restaurant bankruptcies during the pandemic and so buying "used" soda fountain gear is actually pretty easy (at least in the western US) these days. I actually have an Elkay "water machine" which does carbonation (as well as chilled and not chilled still water) although its carbonation chamber is too small to give a good fizz like the commercial units do. (more Perrier like, less fountain soda like). That said there are also relatively few powder mixes that take into account carbonated water. There was an AWESOME Grape Crush one (that was sugar free) but since it tasted poorly when mixed with still water it was discontinued (having a soda water tap is not the normal situation). One of the more interesting ideas (and also impractical) are the "mini-syrups" that are used in the multi-beverage dispensers with the touch screen at places like Movie Theaters. Good luck getting hold of those. I briefly had a line on getting them from a local AMC because I knew the manager who wasn't averse to re-selling them to me at cost but she changed jobs when the pandemic made theaters non-viable. The existing Coke branded dispensers are so loaded up with various DRM/telemetry that even if you can get one at auction (which you normally can't since they are leased, not sold) it would be quite the reverse engineering process to get it to work "disconnected" from the Coke network. [1] Funny story about how I spent four months trying to buy Diet Dr. Pepper syrup at the "restaurant" rate (which was about 1/4th the "retail" rate) elided.

zainhoda 5y ago

Recently I went to my office for the first time since the pandemic started. The Diet Coke in the office fridge tasted HORRIBLE.

zerocrates 5y ago
Had the same experience briefly returning to an office last year, some very unappetizing Coke Zero. I don't know how much Ace-K differs in this regard or if there's not really enough to matter but... not good. Was not really something I previously thought of as really expiring in any meaningful sense.
- gpcr1949 5y ago
  Acesulfame K is not sensitive to degradation at coke pH. In addition to acesulfame K coke zero reportedly contains aspartame as well so that was probably the cause of the off-taste.
coldtea 5y ago
Sorry, that was me. Had a Zoom meeting and couldn't leave the kitchen where the meeting's start found me for like 3 hours.
- theGeatZhopa 5y ago
  DON'T EAT THE CHOCOLATE MUFFIN！
skocznymroczny 5y ago
Could it be that you just didn't drink cola for a long time? I haven't really drank any soft drink in few years and whenever I try it just tastes like very sugary water to me. And I used to drink a lot of cola in the past.

narag 5y ago

I noticed a similar thing with regular Coca Cola years ago. Some PET 2 l bottles went stale and tasted terribly, like mold. Other people thought that it wasn't so bad, but did detect the bad taste after being told about it. I suspected it was an effect of sunlight on sugar, but had no way to know for sure. Nobody would admit that the bottles were transported or stored in inadequate conditions either. Then I quit regular coke and later diet coke too, so no idea if it's still a problem.

eitland 5y ago
Here in Norway I think "Pepsi Max" was the gold standard for years while diet Coca Cola mostly sold because of the brand name. Then something happened: Coca Cola launched Zero and after a few iterations it tasted good! Meanwhile Pepsi Max always yaste stale now since the start of the pandemic or something. I don't really know what happened and it could just be my taste changing but I don't think so.
- tapland 5y ago
  Same observation in Sweden. So I'm not going crazy! Not sure if our Pepsi is bottled in the same place, but our Coca Cola isn't.
  - towb 5y ago
    Carlsberg Sverige and Ringnes AS (also Carlsberg), I'm guessing it's made locally. Haven't notice anything with the Swedish Pepsi max and I'm drinking _a lot_ of it. Didn't get the flu yet so my taste buds should be good! Coke zero got a lot better after the new recipe if you ask me but still a Pepsi guy :)
    - eitland 5y ago
      I drank a lot of Pepsi Max since 2006 to sometime just before the pandemic when I started feeling the difference. Recently I have only tried the ones from Norway since the border has been closed for so long && local shops have reduced prices to Swedish levels for now, but the Pepsi Max I get here all tastes stale now across all shops and all bottle sizes I have tested.

jorblumesea 5y ago

Some of us can't even drink the "good" tasting aspartame due to genetic factors. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39135 https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39135

behringer 5y ago
Aspertame is a bit of acquired taste, tho it would not surprise me if some people can't acquire the taste for it
aviditas 5y ago
I'm one of those and have difficulties with most bitter drinks as well so the problem compounds as I have to have more sugar than most to drink coffee or nonherbal teas. I found that the sugar free off brand winco red bull doesn't trigger the same sour/bitter for me which is great. I still stick with water, milk, barley tea, and hot cocoa (I make my own mix) for the most part.
mmastrac 5y ago
That's me. I can take one sip of diet soda and then the aftertaste kills me.
Groxx 5y ago
I wonder what the genetic factor is for stevia, because oh boy does that taste awful. Aspartame is unpleasant, but stevia is something else entirely. About the only diet sweeteners that taste sweet to me are xylitol and saccharin, and they're hard to find outside their niches (gum/mints and coffee sweetener). Kinda sucks tbh.
dagw 5y ago
I know lots of people claim that Coke Zero tastes "basically" the same as normal Coke, but to me it was literally the most disgusting soda I have ever tastes. Far worse than even Coke light for some reason.
- anfilt 5y ago
  Yea, I am in the same boat I find diet sodas taste disgusting.

eitland 5y ago

> If you unzip aspartame into the two amino acids and remove that methyl to become methanol, you have a tasteless mixture of pretty harmless compounds. I'm somewhat surprised nobody has commented on this yet, so let me point it out: methanol is not harmless! It causes blindness or death. (I don't say diet soda is harmful, only that methanol is.)

ChuckMcM 5y ago
Your statement about the toxicology of methanol is correct, but as the article alludes too, and the referenced paper goes into detail on, the dosage is below the point where it harms people. (I don't recall off hand if they considered an infant being fed an entire can of soda in the paper so I'm not going to say that as a blanket statement) As for the toxicology limit. If the maximum amount of methanol has been created by all of the aspartame "unzipping" even if you consumed the whole can your does will be lower than the amount needed to create harmful effects. Additionally, sodas in this state taste like crap, so unless you have no taste sensors at all you won't drink more than a gulp which lowers the dosage still further. But that there can be methanol in an out of date soda has been the go to reason a friend of mine never drinks sugar free soda. And frankly I can respect that choice.
- eitland 5y ago
  I suspected this could be the case which is why I included my disclaimer at the end :-) Still I felt a warning was in order when someone calls methanol a harmless compound because that is absolutely not true.
- colordrops 5y ago
  Is damage from methanol not cumulative? My understanding is that it rubberizes nerve and brain tissue.
  - ChuckMcM 5y ago
    Apparently not at the levels of hydrolyzed aspartame: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482121/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482121/

ddtaylor 5y ago

Is the "jury still out" on Aspertame causing health problems like cancer?

INTPenis 5y ago
Problem is that it's not alone on the market. These new proteinbars that are flooding stores here in Sweden have a careful balance of THREE different sweeteners just to get away with the low sugar content. They do taste amazing but I'm skeptical to anything unnatural.
Gigachad 5y ago
No. Aspartame is one of the most studied and tested substances on the planet and they still haven't linked a single problem to it. At least not one that doesn't relate to sweeteners in general. Nothing else has gone under so much scrutiny (Maybe MSG). Seems like a too good to be true situation where people can't accept its actually this good.
- blurker 5y ago
  Can you provide a source or explain how you came to the conclusion that it is one of the most studied substances on the planet? Personally I'm not worried about aspartame. I consume it in small amounts and am not overly concerned, but this statement goes beyond the facts I'm aware of. Update: I found a source, the FDA says that: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/additional-information-about-high-intensity-sweeteners-permitted-use-food-united-states https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/additional... I had heard that about. Msg, but not aspartame. Til!
  - iamricks 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
- Ilverin 5y ago
  It causes higher blood pressure and is statistically associated with heart problems. https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/do-you-really-need-that-diet-soda https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/do-you-really...

ck2 5y ago

Diet soda and artificial sweeteners is a gateway crutch. Took years to stop drinking soda and decade of diet but finally kicked it. Worth the effort and recommended. Everyone is quick to hand wave "doesn't cause cancer" blah blah but what they hop and skip over is it definitely changes gut microbe for the worse.

colordrops 5y ago
What are your thoughts on soda water?
- mmastrac 5y ago
  I love soda water but the last study I read suggested it was carbonation that should be avoided. I still drink it.
  - andi999 5y ago
    Can you find the source? I doubt that carbonation is a problem.
    - pivo 5y ago
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17023723/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17023723/ Apparently some association to low bone density in women.
      - andi999 5y ago
        Well, this one supports the phosphoric acid bad thing, but not the carbonated being bad idea.
    - mmastrac 5y ago
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28228348/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28228348/ Carbon dioxide in carbonated beverages induces ghrelin release and increased food consumption in male rats: Implications on the onset of obesity

sgt 5y ago

Never saw the point of diet sodas. I'd much rather drink normal coke with proper sugar in it. It's unhealthy, yes - so drink slightly less.

Gareth321 5y ago
This is my life motto: eat well but portion wisely. I like butter. I like sugar. I like McDonalds, and cream, and cheese. So I eat these things, but only in moderation. I don't worry about trying to trick my tastebuds into thinking food tastes good. To me, artificial sweeteners taste bitter and wholly unpleasant. I would rather just drink water than drink diet soda. Indeed, I drink soda very rarely now, but once every few weeks a real coca cola is quite delicious.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  > So I eat these things, but only in moderation I've found this is difficult for me. It's much easier to not eat those foods at all than to hope to only eat "a little". A mitigation is only buying very small packs, but that's not always practical.
  - Gareth321 5y ago
    Good point. I still struggle with myself not to eat the whole packet. I guess I've grown to enjoy the battle of wills and the sense of satisfaction of winning each time.
chithanh 5y ago
Sugary soda is associated with no better or worse health outcomes than diet soda. In fact both are similarly bad for you. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2749350 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Surely 40g of sugar if you do not need all that energy is worse than 0g of sugar. Almost every advancement in dietary knowledge I have see over my life has indicated more and more that excess sugar (and carbs in general) is by far the biggest problem all over the world. And it is trivial to consume excess carbs with a modern lifestyle in a developed country.

thrown_22 5y ago

>Later, when he licked his fingers to turn a page, he discovered a very sweet taste. Since he realized that the compound he made was unlikely to be toxic, he tasted it and found it extremely sweet indeed. In fact, aspartame is about 200 times as sweet by weight as sugar. This is horrifying.

acuozzo 5y ago
If you think this is horrifying, then I'd suggest reading the origin story of Sucralose.
medstrom 5y ago
Explain?
- thrown_22 5y ago
  What if it had been toxic?
  - purpleidea 5y ago
    Then we might not have discovered it yet.
  - medstrom 5y ago
    >he realized that the compound he made was unlikely to be toxic
avnigo 5y ago
I guess lab safety wasn't what it is now. Serendipitous discovery, but it could've gone much worse.

theGeatZhopa 5y ago

Stop drinking coke! It's not well for you. Especially when you get older. The problem lies within the phosphoric acid added in plenty amounts. It's not exactly only coca cola's problem, but it adds up. Phosphorus is been added everywhere - from Sausages (e.g. the one in hot dogs. Or, The one's intended to be grilled like the GERMAN SAUSAGE) to muffins. I think, it's called sometimes backing soda - the powder you add to make cakes or croissants fluffy. Not to compare with the Natrium bicarbonate which is ok .. So the phosphorus is needed for every living cell. Essential for the live developed. The problem: We need phosphorus to build our bones. Phosphorus reacts with Calcium and they build up salt difficult to dissolve back to calcium and phosphorus. Usually, that will be incorporated into our bones and makes the bone's structure and fillings. The problem starts when you grew older and your kidneys worsen. It still can be enough to clean your blood, but give a possibility for phosphorus to accumulate slowly in your blood. With too much phosphorus in your blood, your body tries to regulate that - as your kidneys can't do the work properly anymore, there's is just one way: going through the Calcium-phosphate-double-circle-regulation. That means, if one is having to much phosphorus in the blood, your body start to produce a hormone that stimulates releasing more calcium into your blood to bind that phosphorus. The calcium comes out of the Bones. They get easy broken like glass. and.. the bound phosphorus and calcium are in your blood vessels. Difficult to dissolve back. Cluttering the vessels. That's one of the reasons for arteriosclerosis and insults. But also for the elder getting blind (Makula degenerative illness) and deaf (I think). A lot of people have that. So. I stopped consuming anything with added phosphate contents. Thank me later.

amelius 5y ago
Is phosphorus in standard blood tests? Could a calcium supplement help?
- theGeatZhopa 5y ago
  You can have it measured by the concentrations of phosphates in your blood. Also, the hormone, Parathormone can be measured. But both are part of the big blood test. Indirectly, you also can measure the function of your kidneys.. but.. it may still be high enough for the doctors not to react.. Otherwise... If you're on dialysis, you have 200% sure high levels of phosphorus Supplement of calcium could Help as to much of Calcium in blood will also induce the counter reaction by pulling to much of the phosphorus into the bones. They will get to dense. Also an effect you don't want

PostThisTooFast 5y ago

271828182846 5y ago

I don't get the concept of diet soda. If you consume something unhealthy - shouldn't it at least taste good? Or is it some sort of self-punishment?

topspin 5y ago
I used to dislike the taste of all diet soda, but something changed and now most of them are fine; I really don't miss real sugar soda anymore.
vladvasiliu 5y ago
I quite like Coke Zero, although I admit that regular Coke does taste somewhat better. However, my reason for drinking diet Coke is that sometimes I feel like drinking soda, but if I can limit the damage done (by sugar, since I'm trying to lose weight), might as well do it. Sure, no soda at all is best, but I think this is one of those cases which aren't all black or all white.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
xxs 5y ago
The unhealthy part is mostly the caffeine, not the aspartame, itself. That being said - I don't get the 'soda' at all. It's worse than plain water, juice (no extra sugars), espresso, and beer.
- the_af 5y ago
  Well, let me give you my perspective: I hate beer and also have some sort of allergic reaction to it (I don't mind, since I don't like it anyway). Water has no taste, so unless I'm drinking merely to quench my thirst, it's not what I want. Juice is too much work and many juices "out of the fruit" without added sugar are also bad for you, e.g. orange juice. Most dentists and nutritionists now do not recommend drinking orange juice except very occasionally (then again, of course they don't recommend soda drinks either). I love espresso and drink it way too often, but it's not a refreshing drink like Diet Coke is, and also it's not good for you either (in excess). I probably drink way too much espresso and Diet Coke.

jbirer 5y ago

Some time ago I could tell something was really off about the taste of my diet soda even though it was way before it's expiry date. I was able to find out some storage irregularities with the shop I was buying from and call CC on them. Turns out they were also doing a lot of stupid things like taking meat freezers out of socket overnight to reduce energy consumption.

ramchip 5y ago
What's CC? Health inspection?
- medstrom 5y ago
  CDC (Centers for Disease Control) maybe?
- poizan42 5y ago
  The local County Council perhaps? Seems they are the ones responsible for food safety in the UK.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    But we don't say 'soda' (for the same usage). (And 'call CC on them' seems an unlikely phrasing to me, though you're correct that (a department of) the county council would probably be the port of call.)
- daurnimator 5y ago
  coca-cola?
lupire 5y ago
Was it in hot weather? could accelerate reacrions.

surfsvammel 5y ago

Every soft drink I’ve had since COVID have tasted off. So. If your drinks taste off, that might also be the explanation.

kilroy123 5y ago
Ugh, same here. While my taste and smell has somewhat come back. One month out and it's still not back to normal.
- the_af 5y ago
  Not to worry you, but like I said in the sibling comment, it's been almost a year and while I recovered my sense of smell and taste, it's not exactly the same as before COVID.
the_af 5y ago
You may be onto something. After I had COVID and recovered my sense of smell, I found things didn't smell or taste exactly the same as before. Drinks, especially coffee, doesn't smell exactly the same as before, for example. And I had COVID almost a year ago, so it's not like I recovered yesterday.
randcraw 5y ago
That's really interesting. That suggests that taste may be a calibrated sense, where signals come from multiple sensors and are 'gathered' into the final perception. Probably some of your taste buds and olfactory sensors are less sensitive after covid, or may even respond differently, producing a different mix of signals. To return to normal, I suspect the lagging sensors will need to fully revive. I wonder if there's a way to retrain sensory organs, to shape your perception of flavor, perhaps the way that oenophiles teach someone to taste wine more sensitively and meaningfully. Can one learn to deconvolute the the signals of taste?
- surfsvammel 5y ago
  I believe my kids have a similar situation. They have been really picky with food since COVID. We actually talked to a paediatrician (is that what they are called?) about it. He said it seemed to be very common right now. Also suggested that we should try to give the kids lots of different tastes, textures, temperatures etc. I guess to “train” the sense again? I don’t know. Seems a bit unscientific. But who knows.

keiferski 5y ago

Off topic, but the headline made me realize that something “tasting off” is sort of an unpaired expression. We don’t say that normal drinks “taste on.” An unpaired word is one that, according to the usual rules of the language, would appear to have a related word but does not. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpaired_word https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpaired_word

zomglings 5y ago
It may be unpaired in American English but maybe not in non-American dialects of English? Have heard people from Great Britain say things like "x is on" before with roughly the opposite meaning as how we use "y is off".
- keiferski 5y ago
  I don’t have much direct experience with British English but do people really say the soda tastes on to mean the soda tastes fine?
  - have_faith 5y ago
    No we don't say that. We would only say that it tastes off. We really only use the opposite with regards to events, this event is on, Daniell's birthday surprise is on, etc.
    - keiferski 5y ago
      Right, the usage is the same in the US. If an event is proceeding ahead as planned, it’s on.
    - furiens 5y ago
      As well as an event, a drink on tap can be ‘on’ or ‘off’, to refer to its availability.
- shawabawa3 5y ago
  Not sure if it's only the UK but we also use "up" and "down" as synonyms in some sitations. e.g. "I'm up for going to the pub" and "I'm down for going to the pub" mean the same thing

ivanstame 5y ago

I refuse to drink diet/zero coke, since it's disgusting probably because of artificial sweeteners...

qwertyuiop_ 5y ago

I have also noticed significant reduction in carbonation of Coke and Pepsi. 2-3 years ago it would hit the spot so to speak. Now they taste flat as if they have been sitting out all day. Wild thought was they are doing this to reduce “co2” emissions :)

gilrain 5y ago
The CO2 for carbonation is generally a captured byproduct of the fertilizer industry. It’s carbon neutral.

aaron695 5y ago

Pooge 5y ago

Sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but whenever I drink Coca-Cola Zero, I get a bit dizzy. It doesn't happen with other soda like Pepsi Zero. I've read somewhere that aspartame is much stronger than sugar. For the life of me, I can't find any references I stumbled upon when I searched about it, but has any of you had the same symptoms?

jupiter90000 5y ago
Aspartame makes me dizzy, even a little bit like from gum containing it. I have to abstain.
schipplock 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_drink#Amount_of_artificial_sweeteners_in_diet_soft_drinks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_drink#Amount_of_artificia... Pepsi Max contains more of Aspartame compared to Coke Zero. Stop drinking this garbage :). Drink water and tea.
- Pooge 5y ago
  > Drink water and tea. Yup. Stopped drinking anything else than water (sometimes with syrup), sparkling water, and tea.
- iamricks 5y ago
  There is nothing wrong with Aspartame, and no amount of diet soda will even come close to dangerous levels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
  - Pooge 5y ago
    Probably, but I'd rather drink only water and tea. Considering how bad I feel after just a bottle of Coca-Cola Zero, I'd rather not try it again and stick with natural drinks. I think we've allowed our society to become addict to sugar, and I don't think Aspartame is our savior.

anfilt 5y ago

I can't stand diet soda's they always taste off. I a lot these artificial sweeteners gross/disgusting.

iamricks 5y ago
You might be used to really sugary drinks, i was an obese child and once my nutritionist took away regular coke and juices from me i couldn't drink a sugary drink without feeling disgusted at how sweet it was and artificial sweeteners tasted a lot better.
- leeter 5y ago
  There are actually genetic reasons that some percentage of the population tastes both common artificial sweeteners as bitter https://academic.oup.com/chemse/article/38/5/379/360864?login=true https://academic.oup.com/chemse/article/38/5/379/360864?logi... It's related to why some people taste Cilantro as soap too.

hilbert42 5y ago

What an excellent article. For me, it's also a timely discussion in that a short while ago (from my records on August 19 2019) I was looking at the Wikipedia article on aspartame when I realized that there was a significant error on the page. The skeletal formula was correct but the ball-and-stick model was incorrect in that it had an extra hydrogen tacked onto the aspartic acid group—the NH2 was misrepresented as NH3. Being somewhat surprised at the error—as one would have thought that both representations would have been generated in the same software, Avogadro etc., thus the error should have occurred in both or not at all—so I dug a little deeper. I recalled that I had previously visited Wiki's Aspartame page some years back so I went looking to see if I had kept a copy of the page and sure enough I had saved it (it's not unusual for me to save Wiki pages). Anyway, upon reexamination of the earlier page, I found that the ball-and-stick formula was also incorrect therein. Clearly, I'd not noticed the error back then. The date of that earlier viewing was April 5, 2012, so the Wikipedia page has had that blatant error present for over 9 years—it could be much longer as I never checked when the page was originally posted! Given both its notoriety and controversy, how could such a large mistake exist in this Aspartame page for so long without anyone noticing it? I then tried to correct the error. I attempted to edit the page only to be informed that my domain was unacceptable and so I could not do so. I then resorted to contacting Wiki by other means and informing them of the error and they corrected fault within hours. If anyone has a reasonable explanation for why this error could exist so long on Wiki without being corrected then I'd love to know. Moreover, why would only the balls-and-stick be in error when it is normal for both representations to be generated on a common piece of software? Second Matter: "Searle patented this product, naming it Nutrisweet and Equal. Officially, aspartame has a half-life of about 300 days in solution at about pH 4, about the pH of soft drinks, but half life means that half if it as gone by that time. And if the cans are exposed to a hot storeroom or stored in a warm summer garage, they may deteriorate faster." I'd rarely have the opportunity to drink 'old' artificially sweetened drinks of this sort. First I don't drink many of them, and second, I only buy them in the supermarket where there's a very fast turnover of stock. That said, I find Diet Coca Cola unbearably sweet and almost undrinkable when its chilled and completely undrinkable when warm, the others, Zero etc., I find so sweet that they're undrinkable under any conditions. Could it be that drink manufactures are actually increasing sweetness past the so-called 'bliss point' to allow for the deterioration/aging of aspartame? Perhaps they're aiming for some 'ideal' or average date past manufacture where the maximum number of punters would likely be consuming the stuff. Does anyone know or have factual information about such matters?

refurb 5y ago

Random story - I met the chemist who worked at Searle and whose job it was to come up with a way to purify aspartame on an industrial scale. Normally purifying things like pharmaceuticals can be challenging, but as long as impurities are under 0.5%, generally they are acceptable (some have lower limits). But with aspartame it had to be much cleaner since small impurities would ruin the taste. So it had nothing to do with safety but more quality of the final product. He banged his head against the wall until they came up with a process that consistently have high quality product as measured by taste.

duffyjp 5y ago

I had left an almost full case of Diet Pepsi at work went we were sent home for COVID. Over a year later when allowed back I opened up the work fridge and grabbed a can. Due to masking and still being quite nervous about the virus I basically slammed it so I could re-mask faster. Big mistake, it was awful. Thanks for explaining why!

contidrift 5y ago

If aspartame was't invented as an ant-killer, it certainly works as one! Dust some ants with it and see what happens.

MertsA 5y ago
Plenty of people did and found that it did not do anything to them. The origin of the claim that aspartame is an ant poison was this article. https://www.thespoof.com/spoof-news/science-technology/11213/fda-certifies-aspartame-as-ant-poison https://www.thespoof.com/spoof-news/science-technology/11213... There is no evidence of aspartame being harmful to ants. Dust them with some black pepper and see what happens.
- contidrift 5y ago
  My evidence is what I saw with my own eyes. Specifically, I used a pack of canderel, if anyone would like to repeat the experiment.

bradhoffman 5y ago

Similar topic, but after having COVID and losing my taste and smell for a few weeks, all carbonated sodas "taste off" for me. I've talked to a few people who have had similar experiences and after a year later, all of my regular Cokes still taste off :/

gradschool 5y ago
I was thinking about this yesterday when reading that some people with long covid experience the smell of meat as that of decaying dead flesh, which none of us wants to hear but is not technically wrong. Could it be that whereas we're socialized toward certain perceptions, a disorderly shutdown of the senses causes something like a reboot to factory settings?

hankchinaski 5y ago

slightly unrelated, but i read mixed opinions on the safety of aspartame. Is there anyone knowledgeable in the field who has research proving one way or the other? I rarely consume sodas, I just don't know whether it's safer to consume artificially sweetened ones or standard ones. The literature on the topic seems conflicting and incomplete

iamricks 5y ago
It is propaganda, read through this wiki[1] and see how far people have gone to create propaganda against it. It's one of the most researched ingredients by the FDA. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
- chihuahua 5y ago
  It seems there are a lot of studies where the author starts with the conviction that Aspartame is "bad", and designs a study to "prove" it. For example, "what if we give these lab rats a massively excessive dose of Aspartame every day for a year, and then check if that harmed them"
  - alphager 5y ago
    Isn't that just normal study design? Formulate a hypothesis (in this case "Aspartame bad"), design a test, find out if hypothesis was correct.
    - chihuahua 5y ago
      You are right that my comment as written did not do a good job of explaining what it is about these studies that seems fishy to me. So I thank you for responding to it and making me examine my opinion in more detail. Someone else already responded to you and provided a much better explanation. There is always something that rubs me the wrong way about these studies that set out to prove that artificial sweeteners are bad. It's intuitively appealing: it seems too easy that we can just replace sugar with these harmless chemicals and then it tastes mostly the same but without the calories or bad metabolic effects of sugar. But artificial sweeteners have been studied for decades, especially Aspartame, and as far as I know they appear to be harmless, outside of the Gwyneth Paltrow universe. So it seems to me that some people still have an axe to grind with these artificial sweeteners, and try to bend science to their will.

pmarreck 5y ago

I can't wait for soft drinks to come out that use Allulose as a sweetener https://www.chicagobusiness.com/consumer-products/new-sugar-substitute-sounds-almost-too-good-be-true https://www.chicagobusiness.com/consumer-products/new-sugar-...

oversocialized 5y ago

Lol at all these big coke and sugar shills in this thread. Read Sugar Blues and You All Have Sanpaku. Sugar is bad for your body. Sodastream carbonation is bad for teeth and supports Israel's occupation in the west bank. Best play is to ween off it completely. First start with sugar beverages (and alcohol if you drink). Once that is kicked, look at the artificially added sugar in foods.

peanut_worm 5y ago

I think there has to be a certain part of the population that is sensitive to the taste of non-sugar sweeteners. A lot of people I asked said they can’t tell the difference but to me they all taste bitter or metallic, even stevia and agave. monkfruit is the only sweeter than sugar sweetener that doesn’t taste bitter to me. From my understanding it is different compounds that cause the bad taste for each sweetener, but I suppose people might be sensitive to some more than others. I wonder why it is that only sugar does not produce the bad flavor.

easton_s 5y ago

After getting covid Pepsi Max tastes off.