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Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

165 points by lando2319 5y ago

mrobot 5y ago
Yayyyyyyy... i guess. Now, everyone stop being arrogant and just emulate what China and the evil ceeceepee did about COVID. They did it right. You didn't. Now, get over your arrogance and do what is correct. When you are sick, you stay home. Stop coughing on everyone. Stop coughing on the world while investing in Moderna stock. Thank you.
iakov 5y ago
This is refreshing to hear. Hope other countries will follow and we’ll start returning to normal.
- smitty1e 5y ago
  We may get close to normal, but a horrifying precedent has been set. I hope for thorough consideration of the totality of the evidence by voters and some careful thought regarding the last two years.
  - andybak 5y ago
    Most of us have been giving it careful thought all along. Something about your phrasing suggests to me that your views are outside the mainstream? (In which direction I don't know because you seem cagey about actually stating your view)
    - smitty1e 5y ago
      The point is to encourage thought in the general population. The moderation here is less than encouraging.
      - andybak 5y ago
        OK. Time to bite. 1. What's the horrifying precedent? 2. Assuming we can another pandemic one day which is more severe, how would you handle restrictions to protect public health - assuming you would at all? (I think a lot of the debate around Covid stems from the unfortunate fact that it's too severe to ignore but not severe enough to get everyone on the same page. I can respect "we didn't need to this time" but I'm curious about people who argue "we should never do this")
        smitty1e 5y ago
        The horrifying precedent is small numbers of people who do not always stand for election making highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. Stipulate that the current crop of names all have noble intent. Not taking swipes at anyone in view. You've no guarantees of such going forward. The current situation is Checkov's Gun[1]. At some point, if we don't enjoy a collective think on where this is going, there will be dismay. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun
        biorach 5y ago
        >The horrifying precedent is small numbers of people who do not always stand for election making highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. Nothing new there, beaurocrats and public health officials have long had the power to make highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. Yes we could do with some debate about the power they exercise and about how to handle the next pandemic, and there will be a next pandemic. However your dramatic tone is unwarranted and unhelpful.
        smitty1e 5y ago
        > Nothing new there, beaurocrats and public health officials have long had the power to make highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. I'll yield on the kind, but the degree with the Covid is off the charts for peacetime action. Was this wise? Were the across-the-board outcomes worth it? Those who made the decisions may be biased in their reflections on the matter.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  Here in London people seem to have largely stop caring. Many have already been vaxed and got COVID. (I have) Lot's of people are ignoring the mask mandates and going with out a mask, even on the public transportation.
  - te_chris 5y ago
    This. The PT one annoys the F out of me... but otherwise I'm over it. On PT though, I don't understand how people can't just put a mask on. SE Asia learned from SARS 1 and kept it up out of common sense, but nope, that's too much to ask here. I'm triple vaxxed and had covid in December. I'm going to nightclubs, pubs, restaurants etc. because why not? Who knows what the next variants etc will bring, but really does feel like Omicron is a gift of some sort.
    - thisisnotatest1 5y ago
      https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1645842452 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1645842452 This might be helpful for your situation
    - zdragnar 5y ago
      With a super contageous aerosol spreading virus, pretty much they only way masks on PT will make any difference at all is if everyone wears well fitted N95 or better masks. The cute cloth masks and disposable paper ones simply aren't going to make a difference in an enclosed space like a bus or subway. It is the worst kind of security theater, in that it makes people feel safer when they are not, and so more willing to take risks than they would have been otherwise. Asking people to wear cloth masks on PT during covid is like asking them to wear a bandana while riding a bicycle.
- iso1210 5y ago
  UK is pretty much doing it, Especially England. The Omicron peak is over, hospitalisations never reached the numbers feared, indeed there were more people who tested positive that were hospitalised for other reasons -- something miles away from reality in earlier waves. In this wave, case:hospitalisation ratio about 1:80. Last year it was about 1:13
- solididiot 5y ago
  I think this is the new normal. Either open/close as soon as a more dangerous variant comes along (can happen with most of the Earth population unvaccinated). Or just let it be and get used to health system being on its knees on peak seasons and more vulnerable/unvaccinated dying of.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Also accept the reality that hospitals being at capacity is the normal and not a anomaly. Just part of our hyper-optimized JIT economy. Near 100% utilization rate has been reality at flu-seasons for long time. And economically it is just not realistic in general to keep excess capacity.
    - jseban 5y ago
      Yeah according to news headlines health care have been overwhelmed for as long as I can remember. Population increases as well. Obviously the solution is to increase capacity, not to ban dancing, lol
      - catblathrow 5y ago
        It's much easier to introduce restrictions than train medical staff in a week. Also capacity has been increasing year on year for the past 100 years in the EU, USA and the UK . Faster than population actually. Also there is cyclical and situational capacity management. For e.g.: flu waves, new year and now covid waves. I only know about those regions
- exegete 5y ago
  After this Ireland still has more restrictions than most US states currently since it requires masks in public places.
zapdrive 5y ago
Great! Other countries need to follow suit. We have to learn to live with this disease, like the gazillion others.
- synquid 5y ago
  I wish that people who say things like "learn to live with it" actually meant it. We do indeed need to learn from the past two years, and that will result in something quite different from pretending that we're still in 2019.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    I'm quite sure it will be much more like 2019 than you think. People will learn to live with the deaths if it continues as it was in 2020/21. Prolong the lock downs more and most of the population will go crazy.
    - ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
      Lol find me one place in the United States where there are “lockdowns”.
      - akvadrako 5y ago
        Why do you mention the US when the article is about Ireland?
        ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
        “Great! Other countries need to follow suit.” Reading 101.
      - emteycz 5y ago
        Lots of places outside the US. Nobody said a word about the US.
    - version_five 5y ago
IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
Irish govt realizing that if it doesnt change something soon, all of the irish will throw their tourist and entertainment euros... across the border. Refreshing to see tha even at the govt level, there is competition of ideas.
- refurb 5y ago
  I spent a good chunk of last year in a developing country that locked down. The economic consequences are still being recognized. Drive around the prime tourist areas and all the storefronts are empty. Factory workers are going back to their small towns and waiting it out, so factories can’t find workers. Western companies are canceling orders, etc. They are learning you can’t turn chunks of the economy on/off. Every change of rules mean investors and customers eventually just “sit and wait it out”. Plus the cost of restarting factories, bringing tourism back, etc isn’t small, so when countries go back and forth the smart move is to just sit back and wait.
- hwers 5y ago
  Competition at the government level feels like a big argument against trying to unify the world into a one world country.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
    As it should be. Look at the EU . We should be glad that bureaucratic nightmare (created with good intentions, all should be said) hasn't led to war just yet.
OliverM 5y ago
They are expecting a spike in infections as a result, and the rules around self-isolation on positive tests and wearing masks in most contexts remain. But Ireland has had one of the longest lockdowns in Europe, and one of the best vaccination rates. Both have paid off, but not without cost.
- ptero 5y ago
  It is not clear to me that low incremental death rates are due to lockdowns (or, for that matter vaccination rates). Balkans had low rates with no lockdowns (and vaccination rates of under 35% throughout last summer). I am not claiming that your statement is wrong, just that the causal relationship is not at all clear to me. It is probably much easier to show for vax rates, but lockdowns -- I have not seen a convincing proof.
  - prox 5y ago
    Lockdowns seem to be very dependent on how they are enforced and culture.
  - ryanbrunner 5y ago
    Canada and the U.S. might be a better comparison (particularly prior to vaccination, since the US has a notably lower vaccination rate). Canada largely had stricter lockdowns than the US and had about a third of the death rate. The populations aren't identical but fairly comparable, and the most notable differences in 2020 were degree of restrictions, along with better support for people unable to work due to COVID in Canada.
    - lambdaba 5y ago
      Canada has 3+ years higher life expectancy than the US, that implies better overall health. Also lower obesity rates (29.4% vs 36.2%). Source: https://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/canada.united-states/demographics https://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/canada.united-st...
    - csee 5y ago
davidw 5y ago
The article explains how they accomplished it without overwhelming their health care system like elsewhere: vaccines, including boosters.
- Proven 5y ago
akmarinov 5y ago
At this point, you’re either vaccinated, have been sick or are dead, so all good. With Omicron beating out Delta and not causing as many hospitalizations - sure, why not.
- nkrisc 5y ago
  Unless you’re someone with a child under 5 who hasn’t been able to get vaccinated yet. My wife and I are fully vaccinated + booster but we are still choosing to be extra careful because our 4 year old can’t get vaccinated yet. So it’s a little frustrating to hear people talk like this when not everyone can get vaccinated yet.
  - akmarinov 5y ago
    Child death rate is basically 0
    - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
      Death isn’t the only negative outcome. Omicron has a higher propensity to infect the upper respiratory tract, which is less developed in young children. You need to forget what you’ve heard about older variants and children. Look at the stats. More kids are being hospitalized in this wave and more deaths are occurring per capita in 0-14 year olds. It’s not good.
      - djrogers 5y ago
        > more deaths are occurring per capita in 0-14 year olds. Citation please? Current CDC data don’t show enough deaths in that age range to be statistically significant, let alone provide that conclusion.
        nkrisc 5y ago
        Having personally known a 2 year old who was severely ill from COVID-19, I'll do what I can to prevent that happening to my child. Statistics mean nothing once something bad has happened to you. It's not like having been struck by lightning is less bad because the odds of happening to you were low. I will do what I can to stack the odds in our favor.
CPLX 5y ago
This seems like good progress but not sure the headline is consistent with reality. You’re still required to wear a mask 100% of the time while in stores for example.
- lljk_kennedy 5y ago
  “Most” is still consistent with wearing masks.
drclau 5y ago
Strange timing, with Omicron going through the population like wildfire. Maybe they are accepting they can’t fight Omicron? In any case, this experiment will inform other countries on how to proceed further. I sincerely hope the results will be good, both for Ireland and the rest of the world. If you want to follow the Covid data for Ireland, here’s the official site: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/ https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/
- messe 5y ago
  > Strange timing, with Omicron going through the population like wildfire. Maybe they are accepting they can’t fight Omicron? It's having very little impact on our hospitalization rates, despite massive jumps in overall case numbers. The main aim of the restrictions was to prevent the health service from becoming overrun (especially over christmas when they were already strained), and it's been deemed no longer necessary.
  - drclau 5y ago
    That’s great to hear. Are you aware of any data on vaccinated vs unvaccinated hospitalizations for Ireland? If so, can you share please?
    - lljk_kennedy 5y ago
      Some good data here: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/ https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronav...
rob_c 5y ago
Frankly about time given that Omicron peaks are preceding peak number of booster shots. The magical broken product we can't sue over strikes again. It's still not understood what pressures led to Omicron favouring lower lethality so I'll be curious if that's ever explained over the normal "that's what viruses do _shrug_"...
- biorach 5y ago
  The evolutionary pressures that can lead to some diseases becoming less lethal and more transmissible over time are actually well researched and modelled, and has happened many times. That this could happen with Covid has been quietly mentioned in scientific publications over the last 2 years
  - rob_c 5y ago
    Also seeing most virological forms of research this is 'explaining after the fact' which is far from making a predictive forecast. Frankly something the WHO, SAGE and various other governments should be well aware of before even reading Report9...
  - rob_c 5y ago
    The transmissible factor being genetically favoured is a no brained, but frankly given 99.9% of cases did not result in death the morbidity of covid is arguably already very low, why should it favour a decrease over developing new symptoms likely to increase transmission such as stability in different environments (there is clearly a seasonal effect in the West and the virus would be more contagious is stable in the warm there). Which leads to the question why should Omicron have become so less lethal if this is just the 4th strain with <100 mutations?
    - biorach 5y ago
      To address just one of the many many poorly thought out points you made... This is not the 4th strain. There have been an uncountable number of mutations, and many strains (omicron is not the 4th letter in the Greek alphabet - there have been other named strains that didn't spread) This is the strain that spread like wildfire because it had evolved traits that allowed it to spread faster that all the other traits. The number of mutations is not important, the effect of the mutations is all that matters. I don't think you have a good grasp of the basics of the mechanics of evolutionary selection, epidemiology or whatever. Maybe spend some time brushing up on the basics of the science before starting speculation on the why's and wherefore - stuff that appears suspicious to you now is actually a logical result of natural processes
Simon_O_Rourke 5y ago
Dev I know working there has said the pubs were closing really early, with the result that people simply moved the party back home afterwards. As a policy to stop groups getting COVID, it seems it encouraged the thing it was trying to prevent. Anyway, kudos to them for going back to something like normalcy, I must go back there on vacation!
- OliverM 5y ago
  Unless the entire pub went to the same house, that behaviour still sounds like a reduction in transmission risk
  - jcul 5y ago
    People also went to the pubs much earlier, and then then went to house parties, instead of going home at 8pm, having spend the same amount of time in the pub. Also the pubs had limits on number of people to a table, table service only etc. On the other hand a lot of people just didn't bother going out due to the early closing time. For a lot of people going out earlier wasn't an option. So hard to say if it was a net reduction or increase in risk.
xwdv 5y ago
Most COVID restrictions at this point are just medical theatre. We are at a point where people can be responsible for their own decisions and proceed into the world at their own risk. Most places with bountiful vaccine availability should just drop restrictions. I have not worn a mask since last year after being vaccinated and have suffered no ill effects, despite being around a lot of people and going to parties and nightclubs. I can’t see how rational people can tolerate such imaginary sanitation rituals.
Graffur 5y ago
The headline doesn't capture the remaining restrictions (although the article does). Masks are still required in shops, taxis, buses, trains. It's unclear for takeaway restaurants and chippers. All staff in those places will still need to wear masks. I assume bar and restaurant staff will also need to wear masks. So really, the 8pm curfew on hospitality has been lifted but that was always silly in the first place. While you can point to some successes, the Irish government has really failed with their approach to all of this. The next election will be interesting and I predict Sinn Féin will be elected.
- wiredfool 5y ago
  Sinn Féin Was elected, they just couldn’t form a government. They’ve lifted the vax cert requirements for going out, limits on size of gatherings, and most mask requirements are due to go in a couple of weeks.
- lljk_kennedy 5y ago
  What failures? I’m pretty proud of our overall response as a nation, apart for the anti-mask loonies. Most of us did what was asked, and as a national policy we (mostly) followed the medical and scientific advice, with obvious compromises for economic, educational and social factors. And here we are now, having mostly gotten through it without massive loss of life, without overloading the hospitals (apart from unvaccinated towards the end) and we’re removing the restrictions. Feels good.
  - deepnotderp 5y ago
    > “medical and scientific advice” Curfew, masks while standing up and not when sitting down, cloth masks which data shows do nothing (from Bangladeshi RCT), etc.
  - Graffur 5y ago
    Off the top of my head.. Mask advice at the start, deploying the police to stop anyone going further than 2km from their home for one. Shutting down outdoor public spaces for another. No scientific backing on lots of decisions made for another. Media controlled propaganda throughout (this one is debatable I guess). Keeping restrictions in place for inappropriate lengths of time - e.g. could have opened up at times last year, Merrion Gate, confusing and contradicting advice to the public after nearly every announcement, covid cert delays, closing off sections of shops - you could go to dealz and buy enough sugar to become diabetic but you couldn't buy some clothes in the same shop if you wanted.
verisimi 5y ago
Let's see if they (or any country) drops the requirement to have a bio-medical-security-id, even if the remove the other governmental restrictions.
rfrey 5y ago
Many (I suspect most but I only follow a few) epidemiologists are saying there's no stopping Omicron. It's more contagious than measles - if you're in a room with somebody who has it, you're exposed barring a properly fitted N95 mask. All of us will be exposed by mid February. It's also many times less pathogenic than Delta, and it's a gift that nothing at present can outcompete it. I believe it's the version that will be endemic, if not than something very similar. So as someone who has spent too many months raging against people who refused to look at the facts of Delta - my mom missed essential surgery because the ICUs were crowded with antivax people, to add emotion to the mix - I'm onside that it's the time to start opening up, at least in jurisdictions where Omicron is 95%+ of cases and where hospitalizations have peaked. The only thing I'm dreading is the smugness of the antimask/antivax crowd who will ignore the herculean effort that avoided complete collapse of the health system and just claim they were right all along. Preaching "floods don't exist!" to the exhausted people who are watching the river subside after slinging sandbags for three days. edit: In the above I say I believe all of us will be exposed - not necessarily infected though.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > Many (I suspect most)epidemiologists are saying there's no stopping Omicron. Which doesn’t mean we all have to get it at the same time. I’m so tired of these false dichotomies. There’s a lot of middle ground between full lockdown and completely giving up so everyone gets it at the same time. We’re already running out of ICU beds and emergency treatments like monoclonal antibodies where I’m at. Yet the prevailing logic seems to be that because masks and distancing aren’t perfectly effective that we should just give up and go full-on into infections for everybody.
  - glogla 5y ago
    Some people just have black-white thinking. See also "vaccines are not working" and lots of other nonsense.
    - eloff 5y ago
      I feel like I really started to have more empathy and better understand the world the moment in my life where I realized that black and white don't actually exist, they're unattainable ideals. It's all just shades of gray. It's so rare to find things like math where the answer is either right or wrong.
outsidein 5y ago
Ireland has a younger population (age structure) compared to all other EU states. Vaccination priority was strictly based on age (oldest first). This decision is no suitable template for other countries with different age structure and vaccination status. Especially no template for US. Next, consider Ireland is practically Dublin as capitol and single large city, and a more rural less dense populated rest of the country. Again, no template or match to other countries. It might work for Ireland.
- biorach 5y ago
  While Ireland does have a capital that contains a higher proportion of the population than is normal for other European countries you are still overstating how rural the rest of the country is
  - outsidein 5y ago
    Really? In Germany, 79 cities > 100000 In Ireland, 3 (including Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland) My comment was not meant to express any valuation or disvaluation of Ireland. It’s focus is about differences in age structures, population density, and vaccination strategy / execution, which makes it difficult to take Irelands approach as template for any other country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_on_the_island_of_Ireland_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_on_the_isl... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Germany_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Germany_by_p...
cletus 5y ago
To anyone confused about these reopenings, particularly in the US, it's actually pretty easy to understand: 1. Governments have decided that by now if you're not vaccinated it's by choice (which it is, barring actual medical conditions) it's by choice and the governments (as well as many people) have stopped caring; 2. The CDC's recent self-isolation has shown that given (1), the government cares more about keeping the economy going or has decided everyone is going to get Omicron anyway or both; and 3. The government has decided (and probably modeled) that hospitals might strain under the load but won't collapse as was a much bigger risk 1-2 years ago. The statistics are pretty stark on this. In the US 2000+ people still die of Covid every day, 90-95% of those are unvaccinated and it feels like the government and people in general have lost patience with people who at this point are simply choosing to die.
- benbruscella 5y ago
  Citation? 95% is hard to argue against if true!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tlogan 5y ago
Slowly all countries will drop all COVID restrictions. Sadly it will be very slowly and our young ones will continue suffering :(
- exegete 5y ago
  Hopefully a vaccine will be approved for the youngest group soon, although I imagine there will still be a disparity between poor and wealthy countries.
lk251 5y ago
The high risk of serious sequelae, even in mild cases in young vaccinated people, make me think this may not be the best way forward.
syntaxing 5y ago
Sure the death “rate” is lower per infection but in absolute numbers, we’re creeping towards the peak again. Kinda of sad people are thinking 3-4000 people dying per day is acceptable and an excuse that everything is ok. That’s one 9/11 event per day in terms of death.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  This is Ireland, not the US. Omicron didn’t really produce a spike in deaths here; they’ve been at about 7-10 a day since October (25%-33% US rates). Notably, our vaccination and booster rate is much higher than the US, and virtually all over 65s have at least two doses.
deathhand 5y ago
I wonder if the timing could be related to recent market performance.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  It’s due to the peak passing without intolerable pressure on the health system. Expect restrictions to come back if this changes; we’ve wound them up and down a few times now.
fasteddie31003 5y ago
What COVID-19 has taught me is people really have different levels of risk tolerance. I'm realizing I am very risk prone. Omicron never scared me and I got it. It was so mild, I would have thought I was hung over if I didn't have a home test. On the other hand we had a guest visit us from SF who really hasn't left his apartment during the whole pandemic from being terrified of the virus. His personality has changed for the worst. He is much more anti-social now and it was difficult to even have a simple conversation with him. He wears a face shield and double masks. Being so risk adverse as to become a recluse has really impacted his mental health negatively probably worse than getting COVID.
- ramoz 5y ago
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- JPKab 5y ago
  I refer to these excessively risk averse people as "branch covidians". It's dumb, corny, and not that funny, but it helps me appropriately pity them instead of being angry at them. Isolation can foster a negative feedback loop of excessive media consumption, and the media is filled with quantitatively illiterate mid-wits who grossly exaggerated the risk for healthy, non elderly people. Fear is the mind killer indeed.
- Kiro 5y ago
  I've also become a recluse but I love it and have never been happier.
sergiotapia 5y ago
This is such great news, very happy for them and of course happy that omnicron is just a weak flu. Finally the world can move on.
martythemaniak 5y ago
Most of these covid discussions are generally stupid at this point. The situations are high localized and can change rapidly over the course of a few weeks. Ireland's current situation and their reaction applies solely to them. For much of January they've had 0.4-0.5% of their population test positive per day, with 40-50% test positivity, meaning the real infections could have been 1-2% of their population per day. Very high rates of vaccines, very high rates of booster and absurdly high rates of infections means that there may not be anything left for the virus to do. https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-12-03..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=population&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=true&country=USA~DNK~IRL~CAN https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
outside1234 5y ago
This is the right approach - take reasonable measures (masks indoors, public transport) - but start working back to normal. The unvaccinated at risk have had their chance to get vaccinated. If they get sick and end up in the hospital it will only be their fault.

165 points by lando2319 5y ago

Yayyyyyyy... i guess. Now, everyone stop being arrogant and just emulate what China and the evil ceeceepee did about COVID. They did it right. You didn't. Now, get over your arrogance and do what is correct. When you are sick, you stay home. Stop coughing on everyone. Stop coughing on the world while investing in Moderna stock. Thank you.

iakov 5y ago

This is refreshing to hear. Hope other countries will follow and we’ll start returning to normal.

smitty1e 5y ago
We may get close to normal, but a horrifying precedent has been set. I hope for thorough consideration of the totality of the evidence by voters and some careful thought regarding the last two years.
- andybak 5y ago
  Most of us have been giving it careful thought all along. Something about your phrasing suggests to me that your views are outside the mainstream? (In which direction I don't know because you seem cagey about actually stating your view)
  - smitty1e 5y ago
    The point is to encourage thought in the general population. The moderation here is less than encouraging.
    - andybak 5y ago
      OK. Time to bite. 1. What's the horrifying precedent? 2. Assuming we can another pandemic one day which is more severe, how would you handle restrictions to protect public health - assuming you would at all? (I think a lot of the debate around Covid stems from the unfortunate fact that it's too severe to ignore but not severe enough to get everyone on the same page. I can respect "we didn't need to this time" but I'm curious about people who argue "we should never do this")
      - smitty1e 5y ago
        The horrifying precedent is small numbers of people who do not always stand for election making highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. Stipulate that the current crop of names all have noble intent. Not taking swipes at anyone in view. You've no guarantees of such going forward. The current situation is Checkov's Gun[1]. At some point, if we don't enjoy a collective think on where this is going, there will be dismay. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun
        biorach 5y ago
        >The horrifying precedent is small numbers of people who do not always stand for election making highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. Nothing new there, beaurocrats and public health officials have long had the power to make highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. Yes we could do with some debate about the power they exercise and about how to handle the next pandemic, and there will be a next pandemic. However your dramatic tone is unwarranted and unhelpful.
        smitty1e 5y ago
        > Nothing new there, beaurocrats and public health officials have long had the power to make highly consequential decisions for large numbers of people. I'll yield on the kind, but the degree with the Covid is off the charts for peacetime action. Was this wise? Were the across-the-board outcomes worth it? Those who made the decisions may be biased in their reflections on the matter.
kilroy123 5y ago
Here in London people seem to have largely stop caring. Many have already been vaxed and got COVID. (I have) Lot's of people are ignoring the mask mandates and going with out a mask, even on the public transportation.
- te_chris 5y ago
  This. The PT one annoys the F out of me... but otherwise I'm over it. On PT though, I don't understand how people can't just put a mask on. SE Asia learned from SARS 1 and kept it up out of common sense, but nope, that's too much to ask here. I'm triple vaxxed and had covid in December. I'm going to nightclubs, pubs, restaurants etc. because why not? Who knows what the next variants etc will bring, but really does feel like Omicron is a gift of some sort.
  - thisisnotatest1 5y ago
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1645842452 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1645842452 This might be helpful for your situation
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    With a super contageous aerosol spreading virus, pretty much they only way masks on PT will make any difference at all is if everyone wears well fitted N95 or better masks. The cute cloth masks and disposable paper ones simply aren't going to make a difference in an enclosed space like a bus or subway. It is the worst kind of security theater, in that it makes people feel safer when they are not, and so more willing to take risks than they would have been otherwise. Asking people to wear cloth masks on PT during covid is like asking them to wear a bandana while riding a bicycle.
iso1210 5y ago
UK is pretty much doing it, Especially England. The Omicron peak is over, hospitalisations never reached the numbers feared, indeed there were more people who tested positive that were hospitalised for other reasons -- something miles away from reality in earlier waves. In this wave, case:hospitalisation ratio about 1:80. Last year it was about 1:13
solididiot 5y ago
I think this is the new normal. Either open/close as soon as a more dangerous variant comes along (can happen with most of the Earth population unvaccinated). Or just let it be and get used to health system being on its knees on peak seasons and more vulnerable/unvaccinated dying of.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Also accept the reality that hospitals being at capacity is the normal and not a anomaly. Just part of our hyper-optimized JIT economy. Near 100% utilization rate has been reality at flu-seasons for long time. And economically it is just not realistic in general to keep excess capacity.
  - jseban 5y ago
    Yeah according to news headlines health care have been overwhelmed for as long as I can remember. Population increases as well. Obviously the solution is to increase capacity, not to ban dancing, lol
    - catblathrow 5y ago
      It's much easier to introduce restrictions than train medical staff in a week. Also capacity has been increasing year on year for the past 100 years in the EU, USA and the UK . Faster than population actually. Also there is cyclical and situational capacity management. For e.g.: flu waves, new year and now covid waves. I only know about those regions
exegete 5y ago
After this Ireland still has more restrictions than most US states currently since it requires masks in public places.

zapdrive 5y ago

Great! Other countries need to follow suit. We have to learn to live with this disease, like the gazillion others.

synquid 5y ago
I wish that people who say things like "learn to live with it" actually meant it. We do indeed need to learn from the past two years, and that will result in something quite different from pretending that we're still in 2019.
- emteycz 5y ago
  I'm quite sure it will be much more like 2019 than you think. People will learn to live with the deaths if it continues as it was in 2020/21. Prolong the lock downs more and most of the population will go crazy.
  - ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
    Lol find me one place in the United States where there are “lockdowns”.
    - akvadrako 5y ago
      Why do you mention the US when the article is about Ireland?
      - ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
        “Great! Other countries need to follow suit.” Reading 101.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      Lots of places outside the US. Nobody said a word about the US.
  - version_five 5y ago

IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago

Irish govt realizing that if it doesnt change something soon, all of the irish will throw their tourist and entertainment euros... across the border. Refreshing to see tha even at the govt level, there is competition of ideas.

refurb 5y ago
I spent a good chunk of last year in a developing country that locked down. The economic consequences are still being recognized. Drive around the prime tourist areas and all the storefronts are empty. Factory workers are going back to their small towns and waiting it out, so factories can’t find workers. Western companies are canceling orders, etc. They are learning you can’t turn chunks of the economy on/off. Every change of rules mean investors and customers eventually just “sit and wait it out”. Plus the cost of restarting factories, bringing tourism back, etc isn’t small, so when countries go back and forth the smart move is to just sit back and wait.
hwers 5y ago
Competition at the government level feels like a big argument against trying to unify the world into a one world country.
- IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
  As it should be. Look at the EU . We should be glad that bureaucratic nightmare (created with good intentions, all should be said) hasn't led to war just yet.

OliverM 5y ago

They are expecting a spike in infections as a result, and the rules around self-isolation on positive tests and wearing masks in most contexts remain. But Ireland has had one of the longest lockdowns in Europe, and one of the best vaccination rates. Both have paid off, but not without cost.

ptero 5y ago
It is not clear to me that low incremental death rates are due to lockdowns (or, for that matter vaccination rates). Balkans had low rates with no lockdowns (and vaccination rates of under 35% throughout last summer). I am not claiming that your statement is wrong, just that the causal relationship is not at all clear to me. It is probably much easier to show for vax rates, but lockdowns -- I have not seen a convincing proof.
- prox 5y ago
  Lockdowns seem to be very dependent on how they are enforced and culture.
- ryanbrunner 5y ago
  Canada and the U.S. might be a better comparison (particularly prior to vaccination, since the US has a notably lower vaccination rate). Canada largely had stricter lockdowns than the US and had about a third of the death rate. The populations aren't identical but fairly comparable, and the most notable differences in 2020 were degree of restrictions, along with better support for people unable to work due to COVID in Canada.
  - lambdaba 5y ago
    Canada has 3+ years higher life expectancy than the US, that implies better overall health. Also lower obesity rates (29.4% vs 36.2%). Source: https://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/canada.united-states/demographics https://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/canada.united-st...
  - csee 5y ago

davidw 5y ago

The article explains how they accomplished it without overwhelming their health care system like elsewhere: vaccines, including boosters.

Proven 5y ago

akmarinov 5y ago

At this point, you’re either vaccinated, have been sick or are dead, so all good. With Omicron beating out Delta and not causing as many hospitalizations - sure, why not.

nkrisc 5y ago
Unless you’re someone with a child under 5 who hasn’t been able to get vaccinated yet. My wife and I are fully vaccinated + booster but we are still choosing to be extra careful because our 4 year old can’t get vaccinated yet. So it’s a little frustrating to hear people talk like this when not everyone can get vaccinated yet.
- akmarinov 5y ago
  Child death rate is basically 0
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    Death isn’t the only negative outcome. Omicron has a higher propensity to infect the upper respiratory tract, which is less developed in young children. You need to forget what you’ve heard about older variants and children. Look at the stats. More kids are being hospitalized in this wave and more deaths are occurring per capita in 0-14 year olds. It’s not good.
    - djrogers 5y ago
      > more deaths are occurring per capita in 0-14 year olds. Citation please? Current CDC data don’t show enough deaths in that age range to be statistically significant, let alone provide that conclusion.
      - nkrisc 5y ago
        Having personally known a 2 year old who was severely ill from COVID-19, I'll do what I can to prevent that happening to my child. Statistics mean nothing once something bad has happened to you. It's not like having been struck by lightning is less bad because the odds of happening to you were low. I will do what I can to stack the odds in our favor.

CPLX 5y ago

This seems like good progress but not sure the headline is consistent with reality. You’re still required to wear a mask 100% of the time while in stores for example.

lljk_kennedy 5y ago
“Most” is still consistent with wearing masks.

drclau 5y ago

Strange timing, with Omicron going through the population like wildfire. Maybe they are accepting they can’t fight Omicron? In any case, this experiment will inform other countries on how to proceed further. I sincerely hope the results will be good, both for Ireland and the rest of the world. If you want to follow the Covid data for Ireland, here’s the official site: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/ https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

messe 5y ago
> Strange timing, with Omicron going through the population like wildfire. Maybe they are accepting they can’t fight Omicron? It's having very little impact on our hospitalization rates, despite massive jumps in overall case numbers. The main aim of the restrictions was to prevent the health service from becoming overrun (especially over christmas when they were already strained), and it's been deemed no longer necessary.
- drclau 5y ago
  That’s great to hear. Are you aware of any data on vaccinated vs unvaccinated hospitalizations for Ireland? If so, can you share please?
  - lljk_kennedy 5y ago
    Some good data here: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/ https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronav...

rob_c 5y ago

Frankly about time given that Omicron peaks are preceding peak number of booster shots. The magical broken product we can't sue over strikes again. It's still not understood what pressures led to Omicron favouring lower lethality so I'll be curious if that's ever explained over the normal "that's what viruses do _shrug_"...

biorach 5y ago
The evolutionary pressures that can lead to some diseases becoming less lethal and more transmissible over time are actually well researched and modelled, and has happened many times. That this could happen with Covid has been quietly mentioned in scientific publications over the last 2 years
- rob_c 5y ago
  Also seeing most virological forms of research this is 'explaining after the fact' which is far from making a predictive forecast. Frankly something the WHO, SAGE and various other governments should be well aware of before even reading Report9...
- rob_c 5y ago
  The transmissible factor being genetically favoured is a no brained, but frankly given 99.9% of cases did not result in death the morbidity of covid is arguably already very low, why should it favour a decrease over developing new symptoms likely to increase transmission such as stability in different environments (there is clearly a seasonal effect in the West and the virus would be more contagious is stable in the warm there). Which leads to the question why should Omicron have become so less lethal if this is just the 4th strain with <100 mutations?
  - biorach 5y ago
    To address just one of the many many poorly thought out points you made... This is not the 4th strain. There have been an uncountable number of mutations, and many strains (omicron is not the 4th letter in the Greek alphabet - there have been other named strains that didn't spread) This is the strain that spread like wildfire because it had evolved traits that allowed it to spread faster that all the other traits. The number of mutations is not important, the effect of the mutations is all that matters. I don't think you have a good grasp of the basics of the mechanics of evolutionary selection, epidemiology or whatever. Maybe spend some time brushing up on the basics of the science before starting speculation on the why's and wherefore - stuff that appears suspicious to you now is actually a logical result of natural processes

Simon_O_Rourke 5y ago

Dev I know working there has said the pubs were closing really early, with the result that people simply moved the party back home afterwards. As a policy to stop groups getting COVID, it seems it encouraged the thing it was trying to prevent. Anyway, kudos to them for going back to something like normalcy, I must go back there on vacation!

OliverM 5y ago
Unless the entire pub went to the same house, that behaviour still sounds like a reduction in transmission risk
- jcul 5y ago
  People also went to the pubs much earlier, and then then went to house parties, instead of going home at 8pm, having spend the same amount of time in the pub. Also the pubs had limits on number of people to a table, table service only etc. On the other hand a lot of people just didn't bother going out due to the early closing time. For a lot of people going out earlier wasn't an option. So hard to say if it was a net reduction or increase in risk.

xwdv 5y ago

Most COVID restrictions at this point are just medical theatre. We are at a point where people can be responsible for their own decisions and proceed into the world at their own risk. Most places with bountiful vaccine availability should just drop restrictions. I have not worn a mask since last year after being vaccinated and have suffered no ill effects, despite being around a lot of people and going to parties and nightclubs. I can’t see how rational people can tolerate such imaginary sanitation rituals.

Graffur 5y ago

The headline doesn't capture the remaining restrictions (although the article does). Masks are still required in shops, taxis, buses, trains. It's unclear for takeaway restaurants and chippers. All staff in those places will still need to wear masks. I assume bar and restaurant staff will also need to wear masks. So really, the 8pm curfew on hospitality has been lifted but that was always silly in the first place. While you can point to some successes, the Irish government has really failed with their approach to all of this. The next election will be interesting and I predict Sinn Féin will be elected.

wiredfool 5y ago
Sinn Féin Was elected, they just couldn’t form a government. They’ve lifted the vax cert requirements for going out, limits on size of gatherings, and most mask requirements are due to go in a couple of weeks.
lljk_kennedy 5y ago
What failures? I’m pretty proud of our overall response as a nation, apart for the anti-mask loonies. Most of us did what was asked, and as a national policy we (mostly) followed the medical and scientific advice, with obvious compromises for economic, educational and social factors. And here we are now, having mostly gotten through it without massive loss of life, without overloading the hospitals (apart from unvaccinated towards the end) and we’re removing the restrictions. Feels good.
- deepnotderp 5y ago
  > “medical and scientific advice” Curfew, masks while standing up and not when sitting down, cloth masks which data shows do nothing (from Bangladeshi RCT), etc.
- Graffur 5y ago
  Off the top of my head.. Mask advice at the start, deploying the police to stop anyone going further than 2km from their home for one. Shutting down outdoor public spaces for another. No scientific backing on lots of decisions made for another. Media controlled propaganda throughout (this one is debatable I guess). Keeping restrictions in place for inappropriate lengths of time - e.g. could have opened up at times last year, Merrion Gate, confusing and contradicting advice to the public after nearly every announcement, covid cert delays, closing off sections of shops - you could go to dealz and buy enough sugar to become diabetic but you couldn't buy some clothes in the same shop if you wanted.

verisimi 5y ago

Let's see if they (or any country) drops the requirement to have a bio-medical-security-id, even if the remove the other governmental restrictions.

rfrey 5y ago

Many (I suspect most but I only follow a few) epidemiologists are saying there's no stopping Omicron. It's more contagious than measles - if you're in a room with somebody who has it, you're exposed barring a properly fitted N95 mask. All of us will be exposed by mid February. It's also many times less pathogenic than Delta, and it's a gift that nothing at present can outcompete it. I believe it's the version that will be endemic, if not than something very similar. So as someone who has spent too many months raging against people who refused to look at the facts of Delta - my mom missed essential surgery because the ICUs were crowded with antivax people, to add emotion to the mix - I'm onside that it's the time to start opening up, at least in jurisdictions where Omicron is 95%+ of cases and where hospitalizations have peaked. The only thing I'm dreading is the smugness of the antimask/antivax crowd who will ignore the herculean effort that avoided complete collapse of the health system and just claim they were right all along. Preaching "floods don't exist!" to the exhausted people who are watching the river subside after slinging sandbags for three days. edit: In the above I say I believe all of us will be exposed - not necessarily infected though.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Many (I suspect most)epidemiologists are saying there's no stopping Omicron. Which doesn’t mean we all have to get it at the same time. I’m so tired of these false dichotomies. There’s a lot of middle ground between full lockdown and completely giving up so everyone gets it at the same time. We’re already running out of ICU beds and emergency treatments like monoclonal antibodies where I’m at. Yet the prevailing logic seems to be that because masks and distancing aren’t perfectly effective that we should just give up and go full-on into infections for everybody.
- glogla 5y ago
  Some people just have black-white thinking. See also "vaccines are not working" and lots of other nonsense.
  - eloff 5y ago
    I feel like I really started to have more empathy and better understand the world the moment in my life where I realized that black and white don't actually exist, they're unattainable ideals. It's all just shades of gray. It's so rare to find things like math where the answer is either right or wrong.

outsidein 5y ago

Ireland has a younger population (age structure) compared to all other EU states. Vaccination priority was strictly based on age (oldest first). This decision is no suitable template for other countries with different age structure and vaccination status. Especially no template for US. Next, consider Ireland is practically Dublin as capitol and single large city, and a more rural less dense populated rest of the country. Again, no template or match to other countries. It might work for Ireland.

biorach 5y ago
While Ireland does have a capital that contains a higher proportion of the population than is normal for other European countries you are still overstating how rural the rest of the country is
- outsidein 5y ago
  Really? In Germany, 79 cities > 100000 In Ireland, 3 (including Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland) My comment was not meant to express any valuation or disvaluation of Ireland. It’s focus is about differences in age structures, population density, and vaccination strategy / execution, which makes it difficult to take Irelands approach as template for any other country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_on_the_island_of_Ireland_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_on_the_isl... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Germany_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Germany_by_p...

cletus 5y ago

To anyone confused about these reopenings, particularly in the US, it's actually pretty easy to understand: 1. Governments have decided that by now if you're not vaccinated it's by choice (which it is, barring actual medical conditions) it's by choice and the governments (as well as many people) have stopped caring; 2. The CDC's recent self-isolation has shown that given (1), the government cares more about keeping the economy going or has decided everyone is going to get Omicron anyway or both; and 3. The government has decided (and probably modeled) that hospitals might strain under the load but won't collapse as was a much bigger risk 1-2 years ago. The statistics are pretty stark on this. In the US 2000+ people still die of Covid every day, 90-95% of those are unvaccinated and it feels like the government and people in general have lost patience with people who at this point are simply choosing to die.

benbruscella 5y ago
Citation? 95% is hard to argue against if true!
deleted 5y ago
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tlogan 5y ago

Slowly all countries will drop all COVID restrictions. Sadly it will be very slowly and our young ones will continue suffering :(

exegete 5y ago
Hopefully a vaccine will be approved for the youngest group soon, although I imagine there will still be a disparity between poor and wealthy countries.

lk251 5y ago

The high risk of serious sequelae, even in mild cases in young vaccinated people, make me think this may not be the best way forward.

syntaxing 5y ago

Sure the death “rate” is lower per infection but in absolute numbers, we’re creeping towards the peak again. Kinda of sad people are thinking 3-4000 people dying per day is acceptable and an excuse that everything is ok. That’s one 9/11 event per day in terms of death.

rsynnott 5y ago
This is Ireland, not the US. Omicron didn’t really produce a spike in deaths here; they’ve been at about 7-10 a day since October (25%-33% US rates). Notably, our vaccination and booster rate is much higher than the US, and virtually all over 65s have at least two doses.

deathhand 5y ago

I wonder if the timing could be related to recent market performance.

rsynnott 5y ago
It’s due to the peak passing without intolerable pressure on the health system. Expect restrictions to come back if this changes; we’ve wound them up and down a few times now.

fasteddie31003 5y ago

What COVID-19 has taught me is people really have different levels of risk tolerance. I'm realizing I am very risk prone. Omicron never scared me and I got it. It was so mild, I would have thought I was hung over if I didn't have a home test. On the other hand we had a guest visit us from SF who really hasn't left his apartment during the whole pandemic from being terrified of the virus. His personality has changed for the worst. He is much more anti-social now and it was difficult to even have a simple conversation with him. He wears a face shield and double masks. Being so risk adverse as to become a recluse has really impacted his mental health negatively probably worse than getting COVID.

ramoz 5y ago
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JPKab 5y ago
I refer to these excessively risk averse people as "branch covidians". It's dumb, corny, and not that funny, but it helps me appropriately pity them instead of being angry at them. Isolation can foster a negative feedback loop of excessive media consumption, and the media is filled with quantitatively illiterate mid-wits who grossly exaggerated the risk for healthy, non elderly people. Fear is the mind killer indeed.
Kiro 5y ago
I've also become a recluse but I love it and have never been happier.

sergiotapia 5y ago

This is such great news, very happy for them and of course happy that omnicron is just a weak flu. Finally the world can move on.

martythemaniak 5y ago

Most of these covid discussions are generally stupid at this point. The situations are high localized and can change rapidly over the course of a few weeks. Ireland's current situation and their reaction applies solely to them. For much of January they've had 0.4-0.5% of their population test positive per day, with 40-50% test positivity, meaning the real infections could have been 1-2% of their population per day. Very high rates of vaccines, very high rates of booster and absurdly high rates of infections means that there may not be anything left for the virus to do. https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-12-03..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=population&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=true&country=USA~DNK~IRL~CAN https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

outside1234 5y ago

This is the right approach - take reasonable measures (masks indoors, public transport) - but start working back to normal. The unvaccinated at risk have had their chance to get vaccinated. If they get sick and end up in the hospital it will only be their fault.