14 ms·

Ask HN: EU devs who moved to the States for work, has it been worth it?

117 points by Winterflow3r 5y ago

For however you choose to define "worth".

morrbo 5y ago
I've worked in a lot of Europe and spent a lot of time working in all over the US too. I genuinely believe that it's down to the person. Personally, i'd stay in Europe, but one of my good friends (who did the same route) set up in Austin Texas. The compensation is a lot better in the US that Europe in general (but you can still find ~$300k+ in EU if you look for it). I didn't enjoy SF (downtown, not Palo Alto) and Florida at all. SF was dirty, both felt unsafe, and Florida felt very fake, etc. However, just down the road from SF (San Diego) was beautiful and a totally different vibe. Boston was also really cool. As for the working environment, the general thing I found was that the US tends to have more people which are absolute experts, whereas EU is more general. If you get hired to do, say, firewall config in the US then you'd be an absolute expert on Cisco, and there would be another separate person who is an absolute expert on Checkpoint. In EU there would be one person who (whilst they might be shit-hot) would be 80% as good as their US counterparts, but on both Cisco/Checkpoint. Just an observation I had across several companies. The main things which drove we away from the US were the working environments - long days, and the general intensity. Also unsaid things like travel time in general being a lot longer, just because stuff is more spread out, than EU. I also found that a lot of the meetings were very confrontational, there was a lot of competitiveness/trying to make others look bad, etc. than their EU counterparts. That being said, the time I got completely eviscerated in a meeting on purpose (to make the consultant look bad) was in Eastern Europe. YMMV, but of course these are just my general observations. It sounds weird, but being from the UK I missed the music scene a lot. The US people were absolutely lovely though, everywhere I went everyone made me feel welcome, even the people who look to tear you a new one in meetings 30 minutes later. These are just some random sunday evening musings from someone who has worked a few years in both (some FAANG, some large, some small companies) in both. My observations are pre-Trump though, it does seem recently that there's a lot more division in the US these days, so the environment might be totally different now. I'd honestly give it a go if you're young, see if you like it. You can always move back. FWIW my favorite places in both were probably a smallish company in San Diego, and work in Malta. To choose any places to live for me, other than the UK, i'd most likely pick Boston and Sweden. 99% of the time the people you work with make the atmosphere though, so you can get lucky and unlucky, which is why i'm trying to generalise my experiences as much as possible. I realise i've gone on a mad tangent here, but yes it was totally worth it and i'd do it again if i could.
angarg12 5y ago
Non answer, but after years of waiting and further delays due to Covid, I'm finally due for my visa appointment and preparing to relocate to the US. I'll let you know how it goes in 1 year!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Winterflow3r 5y ago
  Ooh congrats and hope it goes well with your relocation! If you don't mind sharing are you going to work for a FAANG (or I guess it's MAANG or sth now) or somewhere else?
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    More like MAAMG because MS is way bigger than Netflix ;)
    - OJFord 5y ago
      According to Wikipedia, Jim Cramer who coined FANG and later FAANG has suggested MAMAA which makes that replacement, along with Google->Alphabet.
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        Nice, it sounds like a better acronym yeah. More pronounceable and memorable.
    - agleason 5y ago
      but Netflix pays way more
H8crilA 5y ago
http://levels.fyi/ http://levels.fyi/ This site is very accurate
- messe 5y ago
  I'm sure they're aware of the equivalent compensation, and that it's often higher in the US. But there are a lot of other factors to QoL that are more interesting to compare.
kello 5y ago
I did the reverse. American who moved to EU for work. I would say go for it! Unless you land a gig in Silicon Valley or working for FAANG tho, I would tamper your expectations of the salary in the States being that much better than (Western) Europe. I would never say not to do it though, I think it will be "worth" it 100% regardless of potential monetary compensation increases.
- Winterflow3r 5y ago
  Thank you very much for the reverse perspective! Do you mind sharing which EU country you moved to? Are you planning to stay longer term or just for a few years and then go back? I recently relocated from UK to Stockholm, Sweden and boy has it been tough going so I was wondering if maybe change of continent would be better. I feel kind of stuck here - mostly socially, but also a bit career-wise.
  - kello 5y ago
    Germany! Yeah, I feel you on the socially "stuck" part. I've been over here almost 6 years and it took at least 3 to get a social life going. Perhaps I'm just not outgoing enough, perhaps there are a lot of other factors at play. I would say that making friendships in US is a lot easier on the whole, but this is based on anecdotal experience and not any sort of hard evidence. There are many US immigrants here who echo similar experiences. I found my first good friends were also immigrants and then later made a few close German friends.
    - nautilius 5y ago
      Someone explained it to me with two circles of how close the different cultures let someone in: in the U.S. it's pretty easy to get through that first layer and make some acquaintances, but deep friendships may take longer. Germans are not big into casual acquaintances, but once you're in that first circle, it's easier to get through to the second one as well. There's also a difference in push/pull: Germans will often expect you as the new guy to make the first steps, whereas that will be the opposite in other cultures that are more inviting. Joining some Verein or taking a class at the Volkshochschule can help crossing that first circle.
exdsq 5y ago
I’ve been in the Bay Area for 4 months and have enjoyed it, however I’ll go back to Europe in the next few years. You can get similar salaries if you find remote jobs out here or contract in London so the main reason should be for the lifestyle, not the work. If it helps I’m paying literally 7x more for my apartment than I did in England while my salary is fairly similar lol. It’s all fun though.
- Winterflow3r 5y ago
  Cool! I used to live in London and was contracting quite a bit but then decided to move to Sweden with a remote job. But wow 7x more for your apartment! And here I thought my London rent was sky-high...
  - user5994461 5y ago
    Rent in London is high but little compared to the other international cities. My experience working for international companies is that a flat that goes for £2000 for me in London can go for $5000 for a coworker in NYC (maybe less now after the pandemic). A factor of 7 is entirely believable for England (non London) and most of the EU.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      That's still high. In Barcelona you can find a city center flat for 1000€/month
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  That seems like a very unusual financial situation. Paying that much more for an apartment probably means you weren’t in London before, and then it would be extremely odd to make the same in the Bay Area as non-London UK.
  - exdsq 5y ago
    Haha yeah - my flat was in Oxford and heavily subsidized so £350pm and it’s now $3k plus bills. I’ve worked remotely for the last few years so always been on six figure rates.
homedog31 5y ago
I moved from London to work for one of the FAANG companies in SV and my salary has grew more than 10 times over 5 years (partially due to insane stock run). Having said that I still enjoyed life in London more and planning to come back to Europe in few years since I will be able to live comfortably with money saved. Edit: by salary I meant total income including RSUs, the salary is also much better but obviously not 10x.
- dukeyukey 5y ago
  > Having said that I still enjoyed life in London more Asking as a London-based dev who'd love to work in the US, how did the lifestyle differ? What did you like about London and DF, and what don't you like?
  - asiachick 5y ago
    The US is a big place. Which city are you actually interested in? SV is suburbia. Housing tracts, car centric. NYC is a large city with reasonable public transportation, not London but as close as you can get in the USA.
    - dukeyukey 5y ago
      Mainly places like SV/SF, Seattle, Boston, maybe Austin. I'd love to work in NYC of course, but yeah I imagine it's as close to London as you get in the US.
  - homedog31 5y ago
    Silicon Valley is a very unique place so I am sure there will be other places in US that do not match this description but here you have a choice of: Living down in the Bay Area: - long uber (or car and no drinking) drive any time you want to go out in the city. - lack of diversity in terms of what ppl do for living, almost everybody does something tech related and we are sadly rarely a party starter type :) - high rent if you want a nice apartment or a house - if you are single guy dating life is a real survival of the fittest here, not that it's impossible but it definitely puts you in more desperate mindset than most other places San Francisco: - Used to have to drive 40-50 min to work everyday but that's no longer the case due to covid - To be honest for me it's just too dirty and dangerous. I originally came from Central Europe so even London was a bit gross with all the trash piles around restaurants etc. for me but SF is a whole another level. The things you see on the streets here take some time to get used too. I am a fairly large dude so I get to avoid allot of things but my girlfriend had mentally ill folks throw needles at her, chase her with a lighter trying to set her hair on fire. Not that you cannot have fun here but you eventually learn to Uber straight to your destination, no walking around just exploring like you would do in Europe. What I loved about London and Europe in general is relative safety + public transport combo. No need to plan everything out, no need to worry if you gonna drive/how much you can drink, no need to be on guard several times a night when something weird happens around you. Edit: Just so I am not only listing negatives. There is allot of cool things you can do here. Skydiving, paragliding are super common in California and weather is great for those type of sports. Water sports like surfing, kite surfing. There is some beautiful nature around so if you like hiking you won't be bored for a while. Tahoe is close so in the winter you can go sking multiple times a year with only a 3-4 hour drive. Money you make here will allow you to travel more than any other place.
malermeister 5y ago
I've lived in the Bay Area for six years, made a bunch of money and am now moving back to the EU to enjoy said money. You make a lot more $$$, but it's definitely a big lifestyle downgrade. I wouldn't wanna live there permanently, but as a temporary thing to set yourself up nicely it's not too bad.
- Winterflow3r 5y ago
  Are you planning to move to a major metro-region in the EU or somewhere more quiet?
  - malermeister 5y ago
    I'm a city person, so I'm currently eyeing Amsterdam. It's not exactly cheap, but still a lot better than the Bay, plus it has a lot of the things I'm looking for - a working transportation system, social cohesion and a generally socially liberal attitude (this was the one thing the Bay Area does better than a lot of Europe!)
ranieuwe 5y ago
NL -> DE -> US for a FAANG, my net income has tripled. Cost of living is similar. Worth it from the view of financial security. We enjoy the US, especially Washington but will probably move back to the EU in ~7-8 years. Miss a lot of things from Europe though, especially the school system and public transportation.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Isn't health insurance like 10x the price? I always hear that US people pay 1000$+ per month. In Holland it's around 100 i think and here in Spain it's free. That works be a big issue for me because any time without employment would drain my savings
  - ranieuwe 5y ago
    It depends heavily on your employer. Mine pays the insurance but there is a deductible. That deductible is a bit more than what it is in NL but my monthly costs are zero. It works out to about the same.
  - agleason 5y ago
    If you're employed by a top company in the US, your health insurance is generally much better quality than most public option in Europe
    - dijit 5y ago
      Even if we argue the very disagreeable notion that European healthcare is: 1) heterogeneous 2) subpar 3) public only Then we’re still left with the fact that most big companies do offer private health coverage in Europe. Mostly this is for less than life threatening illnesses, psychological help and physiotherapy.
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        Well that notion is wrong anyway because every European country has their own system. Some are mainly public with a purely optional private option, like Spain. Some are kinda forced private because otherwise you have to wait for years, like Ireland. Some are absolutely mandatory private like the Netherlands. And yes in most countries some classes are purely private. I think Britain is a big exception though I've heard the NHS is also not what it used to be.
marcinzm 5y ago
A good friend of mine moved from Germany to the US. He's got some grumblings about the social issues in the US (homelessness, public transit, dirtiness in cities, etc.) but seems happy overall. His income roughly tripled and he's not even at FAANG.
- OJFord 5y ago
  3x income is nice, but what about expenses? Groceries, utilities, and taxes all seem to cost a lot more in North America, not to mention health insurance in the USA.
  - anamexis 5y ago
    Health insurance is nearly always paid by the employer. And aren't US taxes quite low compared to much of Europe?
    - beagle3 5y ago
      Depending on the tax bracket and the state, they might or might not be. At the top tax bracket in NYC or CA, you have iirc 35% federal + 13% state so almost 50%, and that’s not all of it (there’s payroll tax, social security etc). Products in the US are cheap, but services are expensive, and healthcare is tied to your employer. My impression is that if you’re young, healthy and without children, the US is much cheaper. But e.g. putting a kid through college is $200k in the US vs free in the EU.
      - marcinzm 5y ago
        >Depending on the tax bracket and the state, they might or might not be. I looked it up for Germany. Let's say you make $400k married with children sole income earner. In Germany your tax comes out to 41%. In NYC it comes out to 34%. Not sure if Germany has the same number of deductions and loopholes as US taxes. If it doesn't then the US one would be even lower due to those. >But e.g. putting a kid through college is $200k in the US vs free in the EU. There are cheaper state schools which can be rather good but in general yeah. That said when the post-tax income is $150k more in the US versus Europe the $50k/year for college isn't that much.
thurn 5y ago
I've lived in the Bay Area for 10 years now -- one thing you should be prepared for is that it can be a very 'transitory' place. The majority of people you will meet have plans to move back home in a few years, so it's harder to form long-term friendships. Not sure if this is a regional thing or if you'd get the same phenomenon in big cities like New York or London.
- Winterflow3r 5y ago
  This makes total sense and was my experience with attending college in the US as well. But tbh, most social relationships get pretty hard after you graduate university because I guess people just don't have as much time for random socialising which decreases one's ability to meet someone one clicks with.
  - beagle3 5y ago
    New York is like that too - everyone has the “transitory” mind set and won’t waste time on long term social ties - even the people who have lived there for 20 years. I don’t know if that’s how the rest of the US is, never having lived there. But from my own experience and that of friends, it’s very different in Germany, Britain, Ireland and Israel.
- mirekrusin 5y ago
  Same in London.
- paradice 5y ago
  same with Copenhagen
- 62951413 5y ago
  I cannot emphasize it enough - CA is a special place designed for rich people. You don't come here to settle down, you come here to strike gold or die trying. The outdoors is fabulous too though you'll probably change your mind on CA summers after a few years. Unless you are smart enough to pass FAANG interviews (or better yet, live through an IPO) you should keep in mind that people like you are supposed to leave once they get older and want to have a life. Which likely includes a family. Basically, the SFBA is for people who can buy a house for cash.
throwaway_13490 5y ago
I moved from Stockholm to NYC 3 years ago. Yes it's been worth it for me. I really enjoy my time in New York and I was looking for a change. Being far away from friends/family is clearly not fun. I already changed countries several times within the EU before so I was used to it. Some random notes since the question is a bit open-ended: - I stayed with the same company, which helped me a lot because it gave me social contacts when I first moved (my colleagues). - Having a guest bedroom is great because having friends or family over for a longer time is easier. - The visa process is a pain while you're in it. Looking back on it, it's mostly the frustration at the lack of efficiency and unclarity that made it bad. Considering all the other things, it's a visible and easy to discuss "cost" but changing social circles is the bigger challenge and less easily discussed, I think. - Moving to a country where English is the native language is a _lot_ easier than moving to a country where you don't know the language as well. This holds even if a large part of the population speaks English very well; if you don't speak native language of a country, it's hard to feel like a part of society. - I personally don't like the "X in NYC" (X being your citizenship) facebook groups. Bonding based on interests (sports, books, ...) has been more rewarding for me. The experience has been totally worth it for me and I don't regret moving one bit. That said... I don't plan on having kids in the US/growing old in the US. (salary is better but I assume you looked that up already)
- Winterflow3r 5y ago
  Thank you very much for the very detailed and informative post! If you don't mind sharing - was it easy to convince your employer to get a transfer to the US? - Moving to a country where English is the native language is a _lot_ easier than moving to a country where you don't know the language as well. This holds even if a large part of the population speaks English very well; if you don't speak native language of a country, it's hard to feel like a part of society. -> I had to learn this the very hard way here in Sweden. Even though I come from another Nordic country, I guess I have an annoying or very noticeable accent which makes socializing extremely hard.
  - throwaway_13490 5y ago
    Only speaking for my case; I told my manager I no longer liked living in Sweden and wanted to move to a different country. At the time, we only had engineering offices in Sweden and the US. That meant either 1) asking to be an exception in remote work, which HR didn't really like, 2) leaving my company or 3) my company helping me move to the US. I never saw it as a negotiation/threat of leaving, I just honestly told him that I never really connected with Sweden and that I wanted to move. I think he understood that, as we had quite a few expats and a lot of them leave after a few years to go back to their home country. Fortunately on his part, he was very supportive and helped me connect to several teams in the US to see if we'd be a good match professionally. I'd say it was easier than asking for a raise, hehe... It is relatively easy to move to the US if you've been at your company for 1+ years, have a good education background and if your company has a "blanket L1 visa petition". My "Im-not-a-lawyer" summary of L1 blanket visa is that it allows a company to move special knowledge workers to the US with a simplified and fairly certain path to get a visa (vs. H1B which is a lottery, O1 has hard requirements, etc.). The downside of an L1 is that it's tied to your employment at your sponsoring company, so you can't move to the US and then switch employer (... unless you first switch to H1B/greencard, etc...).
belugacat 5y ago
Lived in the US throughout my 20s, lived like a grad student (with a few splurges here and there to celebrate career milestones) and saved+invested most of my money earned during a FAANG career, during covid i bought+restored an old manor in a rural area in my home country where I can live on a few hundred euros a month (it blows my mind what 30 euros gets me in fresh produce from local farmers compared to $100 at BiRite in SF). I'm still ~40 minutes away from a mid sized city and airport that directly connects me to large cities in Europe. It's been worth it although it's come at the cost of personal relationships somewhat.
- Winterflow3r 5y ago
  What did you invest in? (if you don't mind sharing)
  - belugacat 5y ago
    I mainly worked for one big co through the 2010s and let the stock pile up, and it just grew significantly over time. I've reinvested a bit into basic things like VTSAX/VTIAX/VTBLX to have safeguards, but that recent real estate purchase was the first time I really sold a big chunk of it. (I worked for a few startups too, but those options never contributed meaningfully to my net worth)
  - mellavora 5y ago
    not sure that the investments the parent made 5-10 years ago are good investments today.
wdb 5y ago
I haven't really found a job that's 2-3x more compared to Europe when not taking equity into account
Ginden 5y ago
I would like to notice, that significant portion of people moving abroad for work in high-tech industries are top performers. Extrapolating from their experiences isn't necessarily helpful if you aren't top performer yourself.
- pvinis 5y ago
  I don't believe that's true, and even if it was I don't believe it's would make a difference.
simonw 5y ago
British, moved to San Francisco for work (actually an acquisition) in 2014. Still in the USA 7 years later, as are the rest of the team who moved over at the same time. Financially definitely worth it - salaries here are so much higher even than London, not to mention stock options and suchlike. California is a really lovely place to live. We saw a whale from our back deck once! It's November and it's sunny and warm outside. Very different from the UK! Even with the best insurance plan we can find, interacting with the healthcare system here is so stressful that it's the main thing that makes me consider moving back again.
- friedman23 5y ago
  What do you find stressful? Personally when I want healthcare I just find a doctor that accepts my insurance and go.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    If you can afford the out of pocket maximum and monthly premiums, which I presume people in tech are, then life is pretty easy as long as you do not lose your ability to work.
  - chickenpotpie 5y ago
    As a fellow American, I don't know how you don't find this stressful. My wife and I have amazing insurance and we've been fighting an $1000 bill for a 5 minute visit for months.
  - lelandfe 5y ago
    NYC. Pretty solid healthcare. Went to a new doctor for a routine physical, front desk said it would be free, and I got a $450 bill – after insurance. Spending weeks fighting that was definitely stressful. And that's just one example.
    - cruano 5y ago
      >Financially definitely worth it - salaries here are so much higher even than London, not to mention stock options and suchlike. Seems like they should just pay for it then, no more stress
cplanas 5y ago
ES -> DK -> US For me it's a mixed bag, and we will be probably moving back to Europe next year, after spending 6 years in between San Francisco and New York. On the positive side, money. Software engineers make much, much more in the US than anywhere in Europe, including Nordic countries. My income tripled in the US, and my income was considered pretty high Denmark. Another positive side of the US is that there seems to be more opportunities, particularly if you are white or Asian and work in tech. My wife couldn't get a job in Europe, here she joined multiple FAANGs. On the negative side, the lifestyle doesn't really fit us: too much focus on work. The problem is not -only- longer working hours, but that a lot people center their life around their job. I also find the social issues of the US (unequality, racism) more disturbing than the ones there are in Europe.
- Winterflow3r 5y ago
  Thank you for the perspective! At the moment, establishing a social life has proved so difficult due to constant relocation and general difficulty of socialising in Sweden, that I'd prefer to go somewhere where at least I'd have better career opportunities in tech.
  - cplanas 5y ago
    I think it's totally worth to try it. While I will be coming back soon, I am happy that I was able to have this experience. Good luck!
- david38 5y ago
  You don’t have to be white or Asian to get a job in tech. I’ve literally seen anyone who can code even somewhat get jobs here. You can probably be green and get a job if you know how to code.
  - cplanas 5y ago
    You don't have to. It just helps significantly.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
TulliusCicero 5y ago
Not quite what you asked for, but I’m an American who went to Germany for five years and then came back recently. Quite happy to be back, though certainly there’s things I miss dearly about Munich. The people talking about a lifestyle downgrade in the US aren’t wrong, exactly, but it does depend on your own preferences and values and situation. For me, the lifestyle in the Seattle area is better overall I’d say, but I definitely miss the transportation system in Munich a ton. Seattle is practically drowning in nerd culture, which I adore, whereas Munich had relatively little. Also, not everything is as the stereotypes go. The public school our son is in here in Kirkland is fucking awesome, way better than the private school he was in in Munich (we were going to do public school there, but the system didn’t want him). Part of his better adjustment is obviously being a native speaker, but that’s not the only thing that’s better.
- febed 5y ago
  Could you elaborate on why you found the German schools lacking?
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    Our son went to a waldkindergarten (forest kindergarten) which was great, but the elementary school situation seemed a lot different. He basically failed the try out day in two different schools (we moved), the first said he was too disruptive, the second that he was too quiet. Both wanted to send him to the special ed school far away. So we sent him to a private Catholic school nearby instead. It was okay, but strict, and they were pretty bad at technology. His new public school in the states has vastly nicer facilities, much friendlier staff, no school uniforms (fuck that shit), knows how to use email, and of course it's been easy for him to make local friends. Oh, and the fact that in Bavaria you need to decide on your life's path at fourth grade I find pretty stupid, too (tracked schooling after that year).
DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
UK —> US (when it was still in the EU), I was approached by a top 5 company right as I graduated (to helps to put in internship applications). West coast. I've since got my LPR (Green Card), and changed employers 3 times now. I now work for a tiny company that I partly own. Definitely worth it: my total comp is 3x-4x what it would be in the UK for the exact same kinds of work.
- lucasap 5y ago
  You did an internship in the US after graduating and stay there?
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    No, international undergradautes don't really gets internships due to the lack of visas, but it meant that my contact details were in their database when they decided to look for new people that had the right keywords in their resume text...
mmaunder 5y ago
ZA -> UK 5 years -> US. Transformative for me. I ran a job search engine in London. There was no startup community to speak of and talk poppy syndrome is very real. Got to USA and relaunched it here, and found it laughably easy to do business here, incredibly supportive, failure is celebrated and there is no easier place in the world to raise cheap, enthusiastic and helpful money. I now run a 40 person cybersecurity company with the help of amazing US based investors and mentors, most of whom are also immigrants. That’s my perspective as an entrepreneur. I actually worked for eToys.com in the UK and spent time based in the USA in LA and loved it. Faster moving, no classism, faster advancement and plenty of other amazing businesses surrounded me. The States is amazing in my opinion for employees and entrepreneurs.
beagle3 5y ago
One thing you have to be aware of, is that the US assumes any financial dealing outside the US is strictly for evading taxes. If you have a pension fund in your home country, you’ll likely be reporting and paying tax on its interest. Be prepared to have your looked country banks refuse to deal with you or limit you to saving accounts, and lots of other complications. When living in the US, my tax filing (because of I had to sell some non U.S. assets) one year topped 200 pages; and every year it cost me about 5-10 full work days to prepare the tax filing. Many people just don’t bother reporting everything, whether out of ignorance or out of negligence - and very rarely get audited. But I wasn’t willing to take the risk. My advice is: before moving, find an accountant who specialized in US tax for people in your country (and the treaty), and discuss your specific situation. Minor changes before moving could make your financial life incredibly less stressful - and most of them cannot be done once you’ve moved. At the very least, you must know of FBAR, FATCA, and the treaties that apply to you. But really, two hours with a professional tax person will probably have an ROI of x1000 or so.
tester756 5y ago
What's the diff between EU and US when it comes to free days? How many paid, free days per year that you can take in almost any amount in a row do you have?
- wreath 5y ago
  I guess this is the biggest difference i observed between American and European colleagues. The latter are often concerned with how many days off they get and not so much about what they could achieve. No judgement (i love my 24 days min) but an observation
zz865 5y ago
If you have the opportunity to work in the US definitely do it. Its a great change from Europe, esp if you like business & tech. Once you're here Europe really feels like its heading for relegation. After that I'm not so sure, we got citizenship and now feels a bit like a trap. I like the land, people and climate (though too hot) but it seems a bit shallow and corporate. A lot of people from other parts of the world make huge sacrifices to bring their kids here to the land of opportunity, I worry there is too much materialistic reward and not enough culture. Interestingly dont have a problem with the inequality, I think the rich here are almost to be pitied working non-stop to buy an even bigger 2nd house and a more luxurious car? I'm not even sure why they do it.
rurban 5y ago
For a few years it's worth to see how our grandparents lived in that era. Also good money. But we eventually came back to a democracy, and saw what we paid our taxes for.
1991g 5y ago
It has been worth it for me. My quality of life here is far higher than back home in the UK, I've found a city and state that I enjoy living in - 300 something days of sunshine a year vs grey skies in the UK - and the salary delta is outrageous. Although, I didn't move strictly for work - I intended to build a life here, and my initial visa was dual intent for that reason.

117 points by Winterflow3r 5y ago

For however you choose to define "worth".

I've worked in a lot of Europe and spent a lot of time working in all over the US too. I genuinely believe that it's down to the person. Personally, i'd stay in Europe, but one of my good friends (who did the same route) set up in Austin Texas. The compensation is a lot better in the US that Europe in general (but you can still find ~$300k+ in EU if you look for it). I didn't enjoy SF (downtown, not Palo Alto) and Florida at all. SF was dirty, both felt unsafe, and Florida felt very fake, etc. However, just down the road from SF (San Diego) was beautiful and a totally different vibe. Boston was also really cool. As for the working environment, the general thing I found was that the US tends to have more people which are absolute experts, whereas EU is more general. If you get hired to do, say, firewall config in the US then you'd be an absolute expert on Cisco, and there would be another separate person who is an absolute expert on Checkpoint. In EU there would be one person who (whilst they might be shit-hot) would be 80% as good as their US counterparts, but on both Cisco/Checkpoint. Just an observation I had across several companies. The main things which drove we away from the US were the working environments - long days, and the general intensity. Also unsaid things like travel time in general being a lot longer, just because stuff is more spread out, than EU. I also found that a lot of the meetings were very confrontational, there was a lot of competitiveness/trying to make others look bad, etc. than their EU counterparts. That being said, the time I got completely eviscerated in a meeting on purpose (to make the consultant look bad) was in Eastern Europe. YMMV, but of course these are just my general observations. It sounds weird, but being from the UK I missed the music scene a lot. The US people were absolutely lovely though, everywhere I went everyone made me feel welcome, even the people who look to tear you a new one in meetings 30 minutes later. These are just some random sunday evening musings from someone who has worked a few years in both (some FAANG, some large, some small companies) in both. My observations are pre-Trump though, it does seem recently that there's a lot more division in the US these days, so the environment might be totally different now. I'd honestly give it a go if you're young, see if you like it. You can always move back. FWIW my favorite places in both were probably a smallish company in San Diego, and work in Malta. To choose any places to live for me, other than the UK, i'd most likely pick Boston and Sweden. 99% of the time the people you work with make the atmosphere though, so you can get lucky and unlucky, which is why i'm trying to generalise my experiences as much as possible. I realise i've gone on a mad tangent here, but yes it was totally worth it and i'd do it again if i could.

angarg12 5y ago

Non answer, but after years of waiting and further delays due to Covid, I'm finally due for my visa appointment and preparing to relocate to the US. I'll let you know how it goes in 1 year!

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Winterflow3r 5y ago
Ooh congrats and hope it goes well with your relocation! If you don't mind sharing are you going to work for a FAANG (or I guess it's MAANG or sth now) or somewhere else?
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  More like MAAMG because MS is way bigger than Netflix ;)
  - OJFord 5y ago
    According to Wikipedia, Jim Cramer who coined FANG and later FAANG has suggested MAMAA which makes that replacement, along with Google->Alphabet.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Nice, it sounds like a better acronym yeah. More pronounceable and memorable.
  - agleason 5y ago
    but Netflix pays way more

H8crilA 5y ago

http://levels.fyi/ http://levels.fyi/ This site is very accurate

messe 5y ago
I'm sure they're aware of the equivalent compensation, and that it's often higher in the US. But there are a lot of other factors to QoL that are more interesting to compare.

kello 5y ago

I did the reverse. American who moved to EU for work. I would say go for it! Unless you land a gig in Silicon Valley or working for FAANG tho, I would tamper your expectations of the salary in the States being that much better than (Western) Europe. I would never say not to do it though, I think it will be "worth" it 100% regardless of potential monetary compensation increases.

Winterflow3r 5y ago
Thank you very much for the reverse perspective! Do you mind sharing which EU country you moved to? Are you planning to stay longer term or just for a few years and then go back? I recently relocated from UK to Stockholm, Sweden and boy has it been tough going so I was wondering if maybe change of continent would be better. I feel kind of stuck here - mostly socially, but also a bit career-wise.
- kello 5y ago
  Germany! Yeah, I feel you on the socially "stuck" part. I've been over here almost 6 years and it took at least 3 to get a social life going. Perhaps I'm just not outgoing enough, perhaps there are a lot of other factors at play. I would say that making friendships in US is a lot easier on the whole, but this is based on anecdotal experience and not any sort of hard evidence. There are many US immigrants here who echo similar experiences. I found my first good friends were also immigrants and then later made a few close German friends.
  - nautilius 5y ago
    Someone explained it to me with two circles of how close the different cultures let someone in: in the U.S. it's pretty easy to get through that first layer and make some acquaintances, but deep friendships may take longer. Germans are not big into casual acquaintances, but once you're in that first circle, it's easier to get through to the second one as well. There's also a difference in push/pull: Germans will often expect you as the new guy to make the first steps, whereas that will be the opposite in other cultures that are more inviting. Joining some Verein or taking a class at the Volkshochschule can help crossing that first circle.

exdsq 5y ago

I’ve been in the Bay Area for 4 months and have enjoyed it, however I’ll go back to Europe in the next few years. You can get similar salaries if you find remote jobs out here or contract in London so the main reason should be for the lifestyle, not the work. If it helps I’m paying literally 7x more for my apartment than I did in England while my salary is fairly similar lol. It’s all fun though.

Winterflow3r 5y ago
Cool! I used to live in London and was contracting quite a bit but then decided to move to Sweden with a remote job. But wow 7x more for your apartment! And here I thought my London rent was sky-high...
- user5994461 5y ago
  Rent in London is high but little compared to the other international cities. My experience working for international companies is that a flat that goes for £2000 for me in London can go for $5000 for a coworker in NYC (maybe less now after the pandemic). A factor of 7 is entirely believable for England (non London) and most of the EU.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    That's still high. In Barcelona you can find a city center flat for 1000€/month
TulliusCicero 5y ago
That seems like a very unusual financial situation. Paying that much more for an apartment probably means you weren’t in London before, and then it would be extremely odd to make the same in the Bay Area as non-London UK.
- exdsq 5y ago
  Haha yeah - my flat was in Oxford and heavily subsidized so £350pm and it’s now $3k plus bills. I’ve worked remotely for the last few years so always been on six figure rates.

homedog31 5y ago

I moved from London to work for one of the FAANG companies in SV and my salary has grew more than 10 times over 5 years (partially due to insane stock run). Having said that I still enjoyed life in London more and planning to come back to Europe in few years since I will be able to live comfortably with money saved. Edit: by salary I meant total income including RSUs, the salary is also much better but obviously not 10x.

dukeyukey 5y ago
> Having said that I still enjoyed life in London more Asking as a London-based dev who'd love to work in the US, how did the lifestyle differ? What did you like about London and DF, and what don't you like?
- asiachick 5y ago
  The US is a big place. Which city are you actually interested in? SV is suburbia. Housing tracts, car centric. NYC is a large city with reasonable public transportation, not London but as close as you can get in the USA.
  - dukeyukey 5y ago
    Mainly places like SV/SF, Seattle, Boston, maybe Austin. I'd love to work in NYC of course, but yeah I imagine it's as close to London as you get in the US.
- homedog31 5y ago
  Silicon Valley is a very unique place so I am sure there will be other places in US that do not match this description but here you have a choice of: Living down in the Bay Area: - long uber (or car and no drinking) drive any time you want to go out in the city. - lack of diversity in terms of what ppl do for living, almost everybody does something tech related and we are sadly rarely a party starter type :) - high rent if you want a nice apartment or a house - if you are single guy dating life is a real survival of the fittest here, not that it's impossible but it definitely puts you in more desperate mindset than most other places San Francisco: - Used to have to drive 40-50 min to work everyday but that's no longer the case due to covid - To be honest for me it's just too dirty and dangerous. I originally came from Central Europe so even London was a bit gross with all the trash piles around restaurants etc. for me but SF is a whole another level. The things you see on the streets here take some time to get used too. I am a fairly large dude so I get to avoid allot of things but my girlfriend had mentally ill folks throw needles at her, chase her with a lighter trying to set her hair on fire. Not that you cannot have fun here but you eventually learn to Uber straight to your destination, no walking around just exploring like you would do in Europe. What I loved about London and Europe in general is relative safety + public transport combo. No need to plan everything out, no need to worry if you gonna drive/how much you can drink, no need to be on guard several times a night when something weird happens around you. Edit: Just so I am not only listing negatives. There is allot of cool things you can do here. Skydiving, paragliding are super common in California and weather is great for those type of sports. Water sports like surfing, kite surfing. There is some beautiful nature around so if you like hiking you won't be bored for a while. Tahoe is close so in the winter you can go sking multiple times a year with only a 3-4 hour drive. Money you make here will allow you to travel more than any other place.

malermeister 5y ago

I've lived in the Bay Area for six years, made a bunch of money and am now moving back to the EU to enjoy said money. You make a lot more $$$, but it's definitely a big lifestyle downgrade. I wouldn't wanna live there permanently, but as a temporary thing to set yourself up nicely it's not too bad.

Winterflow3r 5y ago
Are you planning to move to a major metro-region in the EU or somewhere more quiet?
- malermeister 5y ago
  I'm a city person, so I'm currently eyeing Amsterdam. It's not exactly cheap, but still a lot better than the Bay, plus it has a lot of the things I'm looking for - a working transportation system, social cohesion and a generally socially liberal attitude (this was the one thing the Bay Area does better than a lot of Europe!)

ranieuwe 5y ago

NL -> DE -> US for a FAANG, my net income has tripled. Cost of living is similar. Worth it from the view of financial security. We enjoy the US, especially Washington but will probably move back to the EU in ~7-8 years. Miss a lot of things from Europe though, especially the school system and public transportation.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Isn't health insurance like 10x the price? I always hear that US people pay 1000$+ per month. In Holland it's around 100 i think and here in Spain it's free. That works be a big issue for me because any time without employment would drain my savings
- ranieuwe 5y ago
  It depends heavily on your employer. Mine pays the insurance but there is a deductible. That deductible is a bit more than what it is in NL but my monthly costs are zero. It works out to about the same.
- agleason 5y ago
  If you're employed by a top company in the US, your health insurance is generally much better quality than most public option in Europe
  - dijit 5y ago
    Even if we argue the very disagreeable notion that European healthcare is: 1) heterogeneous 2) subpar 3) public only Then we’re still left with the fact that most big companies do offer private health coverage in Europe. Mostly this is for less than life threatening illnesses, psychological help and physiotherapy.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Well that notion is wrong anyway because every European country has their own system. Some are mainly public with a purely optional private option, like Spain. Some are kinda forced private because otherwise you have to wait for years, like Ireland. Some are absolutely mandatory private like the Netherlands. And yes in most countries some classes are purely private. I think Britain is a big exception though I've heard the NHS is also not what it used to be.

marcinzm 5y ago

A good friend of mine moved from Germany to the US. He's got some grumblings about the social issues in the US (homelessness, public transit, dirtiness in cities, etc.) but seems happy overall. His income roughly tripled and he's not even at FAANG.

OJFord 5y ago
3x income is nice, but what about expenses? Groceries, utilities, and taxes all seem to cost a lot more in North America, not to mention health insurance in the USA.
- anamexis 5y ago
  Health insurance is nearly always paid by the employer. And aren't US taxes quite low compared to much of Europe?
  - beagle3 5y ago
    Depending on the tax bracket and the state, they might or might not be. At the top tax bracket in NYC or CA, you have iirc 35% federal + 13% state so almost 50%, and that’s not all of it (there’s payroll tax, social security etc). Products in the US are cheap, but services are expensive, and healthcare is tied to your employer. My impression is that if you’re young, healthy and without children, the US is much cheaper. But e.g. putting a kid through college is $200k in the US vs free in the EU.
    - marcinzm 5y ago
      >Depending on the tax bracket and the state, they might or might not be. I looked it up for Germany. Let's say you make $400k married with children sole income earner. In Germany your tax comes out to 41%. In NYC it comes out to 34%. Not sure if Germany has the same number of deductions and loopholes as US taxes. If it doesn't then the US one would be even lower due to those. >But e.g. putting a kid through college is $200k in the US vs free in the EU. There are cheaper state schools which can be rather good but in general yeah. That said when the post-tax income is $150k more in the US versus Europe the $50k/year for college isn't that much.

thurn 5y ago

I've lived in the Bay Area for 10 years now -- one thing you should be prepared for is that it can be a very 'transitory' place. The majority of people you will meet have plans to move back home in a few years, so it's harder to form long-term friendships. Not sure if this is a regional thing or if you'd get the same phenomenon in big cities like New York or London.

Winterflow3r 5y ago
This makes total sense and was my experience with attending college in the US as well. But tbh, most social relationships get pretty hard after you graduate university because I guess people just don't have as much time for random socialising which decreases one's ability to meet someone one clicks with.
- beagle3 5y ago
  New York is like that too - everyone has the “transitory” mind set and won’t waste time on long term social ties - even the people who have lived there for 20 years. I don’t know if that’s how the rest of the US is, never having lived there. But from my own experience and that of friends, it’s very different in Germany, Britain, Ireland and Israel.
mirekrusin 5y ago
Same in London.
paradice 5y ago
same with Copenhagen
62951413 5y ago
I cannot emphasize it enough - CA is a special place designed for rich people. You don't come here to settle down, you come here to strike gold or die trying. The outdoors is fabulous too though you'll probably change your mind on CA summers after a few years. Unless you are smart enough to pass FAANG interviews (or better yet, live through an IPO) you should keep in mind that people like you are supposed to leave once they get older and want to have a life. Which likely includes a family. Basically, the SFBA is for people who can buy a house for cash.

throwaway_13490 5y ago

I moved from Stockholm to NYC 3 years ago. Yes it's been worth it for me. I really enjoy my time in New York and I was looking for a change. Being far away from friends/family is clearly not fun. I already changed countries several times within the EU before so I was used to it. Some random notes since the question is a bit open-ended: - I stayed with the same company, which helped me a lot because it gave me social contacts when I first moved (my colleagues). - Having a guest bedroom is great because having friends or family over for a longer time is easier. - The visa process is a pain while you're in it. Looking back on it, it's mostly the frustration at the lack of efficiency and unclarity that made it bad. Considering all the other things, it's a visible and easy to discuss "cost" but changing social circles is the bigger challenge and less easily discussed, I think. - Moving to a country where English is the native language is a _lot_ easier than moving to a country where you don't know the language as well. This holds even if a large part of the population speaks English very well; if you don't speak native language of a country, it's hard to feel like a part of society. - I personally don't like the "X in NYC" (X being your citizenship) facebook groups. Bonding based on interests (sports, books, ...) has been more rewarding for me. The experience has been totally worth it for me and I don't regret moving one bit. That said... I don't plan on having kids in the US/growing old in the US. (salary is better but I assume you looked that up already)

Winterflow3r 5y ago
Thank you very much for the very detailed and informative post! If you don't mind sharing - was it easy to convince your employer to get a transfer to the US? - Moving to a country where English is the native language is a _lot_ easier than moving to a country where you don't know the language as well. This holds even if a large part of the population speaks English very well; if you don't speak native language of a country, it's hard to feel like a part of society. -> I had to learn this the very hard way here in Sweden. Even though I come from another Nordic country, I guess I have an annoying or very noticeable accent which makes socializing extremely hard.
- throwaway_13490 5y ago
  Only speaking for my case; I told my manager I no longer liked living in Sweden and wanted to move to a different country. At the time, we only had engineering offices in Sweden and the US. That meant either 1) asking to be an exception in remote work, which HR didn't really like, 2) leaving my company or 3) my company helping me move to the US. I never saw it as a negotiation/threat of leaving, I just honestly told him that I never really connected with Sweden and that I wanted to move. I think he understood that, as we had quite a few expats and a lot of them leave after a few years to go back to their home country. Fortunately on his part, he was very supportive and helped me connect to several teams in the US to see if we'd be a good match professionally. I'd say it was easier than asking for a raise, hehe... It is relatively easy to move to the US if you've been at your company for 1+ years, have a good education background and if your company has a "blanket L1 visa petition". My "Im-not-a-lawyer" summary of L1 blanket visa is that it allows a company to move special knowledge workers to the US with a simplified and fairly certain path to get a visa (vs. H1B which is a lottery, O1 has hard requirements, etc.). The downside of an L1 is that it's tied to your employment at your sponsoring company, so you can't move to the US and then switch employer (... unless you first switch to H1B/greencard, etc...).

belugacat 5y ago

Lived in the US throughout my 20s, lived like a grad student (with a few splurges here and there to celebrate career milestones) and saved+invested most of my money earned during a FAANG career, during covid i bought+restored an old manor in a rural area in my home country where I can live on a few hundred euros a month (it blows my mind what 30 euros gets me in fresh produce from local farmers compared to $100 at BiRite in SF). I'm still ~40 minutes away from a mid sized city and airport that directly connects me to large cities in Europe. It's been worth it although it's come at the cost of personal relationships somewhat.

Winterflow3r 5y ago
What did you invest in? (if you don't mind sharing)
- belugacat 5y ago
  I mainly worked for one big co through the 2010s and let the stock pile up, and it just grew significantly over time. I've reinvested a bit into basic things like VTSAX/VTIAX/VTBLX to have safeguards, but that recent real estate purchase was the first time I really sold a big chunk of it. (I worked for a few startups too, but those options never contributed meaningfully to my net worth)
- mellavora 5y ago
  not sure that the investments the parent made 5-10 years ago are good investments today.

wdb 5y ago

I haven't really found a job that's 2-3x more compared to Europe when not taking equity into account

Ginden 5y ago

I would like to notice, that significant portion of people moving abroad for work in high-tech industries are top performers. Extrapolating from their experiences isn't necessarily helpful if you aren't top performer yourself.

pvinis 5y ago
I don't believe that's true, and even if it was I don't believe it's would make a difference.

simonw 5y ago

British, moved to San Francisco for work (actually an acquisition) in 2014. Still in the USA 7 years later, as are the rest of the team who moved over at the same time. Financially definitely worth it - salaries here are so much higher even than London, not to mention stock options and suchlike. California is a really lovely place to live. We saw a whale from our back deck once! It's November and it's sunny and warm outside. Very different from the UK! Even with the best insurance plan we can find, interacting with the healthcare system here is so stressful that it's the main thing that makes me consider moving back again.

friedman23 5y ago
What do you find stressful? Personally when I want healthcare I just find a doctor that accepts my insurance and go.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  If you can afford the out of pocket maximum and monthly premiums, which I presume people in tech are, then life is pretty easy as long as you do not lose your ability to work.
- chickenpotpie 5y ago
  As a fellow American, I don't know how you don't find this stressful. My wife and I have amazing insurance and we've been fighting an $1000 bill for a 5 minute visit for months.
- lelandfe 5y ago
  NYC. Pretty solid healthcare. Went to a new doctor for a routine physical, front desk said it would be free, and I got a $450 bill – after insurance. Spending weeks fighting that was definitely stressful. And that's just one example.
  - cruano 5y ago
    >Financially definitely worth it - salaries here are so much higher even than London, not to mention stock options and suchlike. Seems like they should just pay for it then, no more stress

cplanas 5y ago

ES -> DK -> US For me it's a mixed bag, and we will be probably moving back to Europe next year, after spending 6 years in between San Francisco and New York. On the positive side, money. Software engineers make much, much more in the US than anywhere in Europe, including Nordic countries. My income tripled in the US, and my income was considered pretty high Denmark. Another positive side of the US is that there seems to be more opportunities, particularly if you are white or Asian and work in tech. My wife couldn't get a job in Europe, here she joined multiple FAANGs. On the negative side, the lifestyle doesn't really fit us: too much focus on work. The problem is not -only- longer working hours, but that a lot people center their life around their job. I also find the social issues of the US (unequality, racism) more disturbing than the ones there are in Europe.

Winterflow3r 5y ago
Thank you for the perspective! At the moment, establishing a social life has proved so difficult due to constant relocation and general difficulty of socialising in Sweden, that I'd prefer to go somewhere where at least I'd have better career opportunities in tech.
- cplanas 5y ago
  I think it's totally worth to try it. While I will be coming back soon, I am happy that I was able to have this experience. Good luck!
david38 5y ago
You don’t have to be white or Asian to get a job in tech. I’ve literally seen anyone who can code even somewhat get jobs here. You can probably be green and get a job if you know how to code.
- cplanas 5y ago
  You don't have to. It just helps significantly.
systemvoltage 5y ago

TulliusCicero 5y ago

Not quite what you asked for, but I’m an American who went to Germany for five years and then came back recently. Quite happy to be back, though certainly there’s things I miss dearly about Munich. The people talking about a lifestyle downgrade in the US aren’t wrong, exactly, but it does depend on your own preferences and values and situation. For me, the lifestyle in the Seattle area is better overall I’d say, but I definitely miss the transportation system in Munich a ton. Seattle is practically drowning in nerd culture, which I adore, whereas Munich had relatively little. Also, not everything is as the stereotypes go. The public school our son is in here in Kirkland is fucking awesome, way better than the private school he was in in Munich (we were going to do public school there, but the system didn’t want him). Part of his better adjustment is obviously being a native speaker, but that’s not the only thing that’s better.

febed 5y ago
Could you elaborate on why you found the German schools lacking?
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  Our son went to a waldkindergarten (forest kindergarten) which was great, but the elementary school situation seemed a lot different. He basically failed the try out day in two different schools (we moved), the first said he was too disruptive, the second that he was too quiet. Both wanted to send him to the special ed school far away. So we sent him to a private Catholic school nearby instead. It was okay, but strict, and they were pretty bad at technology. His new public school in the states has vastly nicer facilities, much friendlier staff, no school uniforms (fuck that shit), knows how to use email, and of course it's been easy for him to make local friends. Oh, and the fact that in Bavaria you need to decide on your life's path at fourth grade I find pretty stupid, too (tracked schooling after that year).

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago

UK —> US (when it was still in the EU), I was approached by a top 5 company right as I graduated (to helps to put in internship applications). West coast. I've since got my LPR (Green Card), and changed employers 3 times now. I now work for a tiny company that I partly own. Definitely worth it: my total comp is 3x-4x what it would be in the UK for the exact same kinds of work.

lucasap 5y ago
You did an internship in the US after graduating and stay there?
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  No, international undergradautes don't really gets internships due to the lack of visas, but it meant that my contact details were in their database when they decided to look for new people that had the right keywords in their resume text...

mmaunder 5y ago

ZA -> UK 5 years -> US. Transformative for me. I ran a job search engine in London. There was no startup community to speak of and talk poppy syndrome is very real. Got to USA and relaunched it here, and found it laughably easy to do business here, incredibly supportive, failure is celebrated and there is no easier place in the world to raise cheap, enthusiastic and helpful money. I now run a 40 person cybersecurity company with the help of amazing US based investors and mentors, most of whom are also immigrants. That’s my perspective as an entrepreneur. I actually worked for eToys.com in the UK and spent time based in the USA in LA and loved it. Faster moving, no classism, faster advancement and plenty of other amazing businesses surrounded me. The States is amazing in my opinion for employees and entrepreneurs.

beagle3 5y ago

One thing you have to be aware of, is that the US assumes any financial dealing outside the US is strictly for evading taxes. If you have a pension fund in your home country, you’ll likely be reporting and paying tax on its interest. Be prepared to have your looked country banks refuse to deal with you or limit you to saving accounts, and lots of other complications. When living in the US, my tax filing (because of I had to sell some non U.S. assets) one year topped 200 pages; and every year it cost me about 5-10 full work days to prepare the tax filing. Many people just don’t bother reporting everything, whether out of ignorance or out of negligence - and very rarely get audited. But I wasn’t willing to take the risk. My advice is: before moving, find an accountant who specialized in US tax for people in your country (and the treaty), and discuss your specific situation. Minor changes before moving could make your financial life incredibly less stressful - and most of them cannot be done once you’ve moved. At the very least, you must know of FBAR, FATCA, and the treaties that apply to you. But really, two hours with a professional tax person will probably have an ROI of x1000 or so.

tester756 5y ago

What's the diff between EU and US when it comes to free days? How many paid, free days per year that you can take in almost any amount in a row do you have?

wreath 5y ago
I guess this is the biggest difference i observed between American and European colleagues. The latter are often concerned with how many days off they get and not so much about what they could achieve. No judgement (i love my 24 days min) but an observation

zz865 5y ago

If you have the opportunity to work in the US definitely do it. Its a great change from Europe, esp if you like business & tech. Once you're here Europe really feels like its heading for relegation. After that I'm not so sure, we got citizenship and now feels a bit like a trap. I like the land, people and climate (though too hot) but it seems a bit shallow and corporate. A lot of people from other parts of the world make huge sacrifices to bring their kids here to the land of opportunity, I worry there is too much materialistic reward and not enough culture. Interestingly dont have a problem with the inequality, I think the rich here are almost to be pitied working non-stop to buy an even bigger 2nd house and a more luxurious car? I'm not even sure why they do it.

rurban 5y ago

For a few years it's worth to see how our grandparents lived in that era. Also good money. But we eventually came back to a democracy, and saw what we paid our taxes for.

1991g 5y ago

It has been worth it for me. My quality of life here is far higher than back home in the UK, I've found a city and state that I enjoy living in - 300 something days of sunshine a year vs grey skies in the UK - and the salary delta is outrageous. Although, I didn't move strictly for work - I intended to build a life here, and my initial visa was dual intent for that reason.