17 ms·

Heavily mutated coronavirus variant puts scientists on alert

350 points by abbassi 5y ago

de6u99er 5y ago
We need a globally coordinated strict lockdown if this or a similar variant become dominant.
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  I've already got natural immunity. Lock yourself down. I (and millions of others) won't participate in lockdowns. This kind of cowardly response is reprehensible.
  - scoutt 5y ago
    Being immune doesn't mean that the virus doesn't "attach" to you, or that you somehow repel the virus. You still get the virus and you can transmit it too. You won't get Covid-19 (the pulmonary decease) but you still carry and spread sars-cov-19. > This kind of cowardly Your behavior is not 'bravery', but selfishness.
    - artificialLimbs 5y ago
      CDC reports 0 cases of transmission from naturally immune persons. https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-of-naturally https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-... >> Your behavior is not 'bravery', but selfishness. I never claimed my behavior was brave, but rather OP cowardly. Not sure how you interpret living life normally, as though the statistics of the disease are what they are is selfish. What do you expect to happen, elimination of Covid? When exactly, would it cease to be 'selfish' to live life normally?
      - scoutt 5y ago
        The virus is quite new, and a statement like "this information is not collected" from just one health organization in the world (CDC), people like the one from your link, which is clearly biased, exaggerates the topic for his freedom-oversensitive audience. Note that "this information is not collected" doesn't mean it is not happening. Or perhaps it's being collected but by some university, somewhere in the world. I don't know. Of course "CDC Admits Crushing Rights of Naturally Immune Without Proof They Transmit the Virus" is just incorrect and misleading. It's a title targeted at a specific audience. Some fall for this kind of content. > What do you expect to happen, elimination of Covid? When exactly, would it cease to be 'selfish' to live life normally? You ask the wrong questions. What you ask doesn't have an answer, and you know that.
        artificialLimbs 5y ago
        I expect adults to be able to read between the hype in the article. What is a 'freedom-oversensitive audience'? The term reeks of privilege at first whiff. It sounds to me like you (and many people) are OK with abandoning/suspending the constitution (assuming U.S.) because of a slightly more deadly flu. It sounds like you're amenable to pushing authoritarianism as long as it suits you. That dog won't hunt bro. A lot of people are fed up with the blatantly unreasonable responses to this virus. You have offered nothing substantive in your reply and no reasoning for them.
  - nojokes 5y ago
    I think you are not really understanding the idea behind this proposition. Humanity actually could eliminate all human to human pathogens with planet wide coordinated lockdowns. It is simple as that. Not being able to do this shows maturity of us. It is not really high, I must say when simple stupid automaton can run us over.
    - de6u99er 5y ago
      Thanks for taking the time and understanding the point I am trying to make. I think if the SARS-Cov-2 virus continues to mutate faster than we can produce and distribute booster shots, then it might be our only option left. Or we just accept that many millions of our (grand-)parents are going to die. We are already now running into supply chain problems around having enough syringes for 2022.
- erhk 5y ago
  Thats quite an obtuse response that I doubt most health experts would agree with let alone most countries.
alangibson 5y ago
Given the stupefying number of anti-vaxers and rapid viral mutation rates, the only way we get out of this pandemic is by a relatively harmless variant out competing the more deadly ones. Same as with the Spanish Flu.
- erhk 5y ago
  Fortunately this is the trend for most viruses. I have seen no evidence that the delta variant was more lethal, but that it was more transmissible. I have also seen numbers from my locality sequencing that suggested lethality was significant chunk less than that of alpha.
  - yread 5y ago
    > I have seen no evidence that the delta variant was more lethal, but that it was more transmissible Look here then: https://www.cmaj.ca/content/193/42/E1619 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/193/42/E1619 Increased risk [compared to non-variant-of-concern SARS-COV-2] with the Delta variant was more pronounced at 108% (95% CI 78%–140%) for hospitalization, 235% (95% CI 160%–331%) for ICU admission and 133% (95% CI 54%–231%) for death.
    - erhk 5y ago
      Alpha falls into the variant of concern classification, and this is contrasting delta with non-VOCs unless I misunderstand.
      - yread 5y ago
        Just the preceding sentence in the abstract Compared with non-VOC SARS-CoV-2 strains, the adjusted elevation in risk associated with N501Y-positive variants was 52% (95% confidence interval [CI] 42%–63%) for hospitalization, 89% (95% CI 67%–117%) for ICU admission and 51% (95% CI 30%–78%) for death. N501Y is alpha
- postalrat 5y ago
  Wasn't that always the case?
abbassi 5y ago
Researchers are racing to determine whether a fast-spreading variant in South Africa poses a threat to COVID vaccines’ effectiveness.
- Taniwha 5y ago
  I don't think we even know that it's "fast spreading" yet. It's just different enough to have set off various scientist's personal danger detectors. The thing is that mutations probably occur all the time, most don't provide any evolutionary advantage and probably never get passed on, the fact that something with this many mutations being viable is a bit worrying - equally I think that the evolutionary pressure that vaccines represent is going to result in mutations that work better in vaccinated people - and as a result we'll make better vaccines - one of the great things about mRNA vaccines is that we can knock out new ones really quickly
  - jb1991 5y ago
    > I don't think we even know that it's "fast spreading" yet. We do know: > A new coronavirus variant has been detected in South Africa that scientists say is a concern because of its high number of mutations and rapid spread among young people in Gauteng, the country’s most populous province. “Over the last four or five days, there has been more of an exponential rise,” he said, adding that the new variant appears to be driving the spike in cases. “We can see that the variant is potentially spreading very fast. We do expect to start seeing pressure in the healthcare system in the next few days and weeks.” https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/south-african-scientists-detect-virus-variant-amid-spike-81397494 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/south-african-scient...
  - cromka 5y ago
    https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1463846542264131584 https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1463846542264131584
  - erhk 5y ago
    Every sequence is distinct almost certainly. It just matters if the important parts of a sequence are changed or duplicated. So two versions which are sequenced as a certain variant may actually have many differences in practice. I will also add that there are many variants that just havent hit the news cycle. Iirc there was a gamma variant with higher lethality but was much less transmissible.
MissionInfl 5y ago
A similar thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344274
- quotemstr 5y ago
  Yeah, but this thread has a title that's comprehensible for humans.
HenryKissinger 5y ago
It seems like viruses always tread a spectrum between infectivity and lethality. Does or could a virus exist which: - has a 100% fatality rate, like rabies - can keep the host alive long enough to spread and - cannot be defeated by any prospective vaccine or can evolve fast enough to evade them? Basically, airborne and human-to-human rabies, with no vaccine. Or vaccine resistant ebola, but even more lethal, infectious, and a longer incubation period. Put more concisely, could a virus exist with the potential to wipe us out.
- benibela 5y ago
  African Swine Fever is like that It is very stable, so it does not need to keep the host alive for long. A corpse is still infectious like weeks laters We are lucky that it can only infect swines
FundementalBrit 5y ago
People are reluctant to get booster jabs because 2 jabs was suppose to be enough and healthy sportsmen and women seem to be dropping like flies with heart attacks. and now a new ultra fast spreading vaccine resistant variant for the media to get people to stay indoors and lockdown. I've had the jab. I need it for travel but people are at a tipping point right now. Peoples trust in the media is shot.
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  Dropping like flies?
  - Rezwoodly 5y ago
    Yeah I'm prone to believe this is manufactured hysteria to drum up vaccination numbers. Fear mongering 101
    - freemint 5y ago
      Why would they do that when it's not certain that the vaccine will work against the virus. I would suspect such news promoting hesitancy and people waiting a while longer.
  - User23 5y ago
    Making no judgments as to the accuracy of the source or the underlying data, I believe this[1] is what’s being referred to. A fivefold increase in sudden cardiac deaths among FIFA athletes is pretty weird if it’s true. Presumably these athletes have pretty good cardiovascular health as well as proactive medical care relative to the general population. [1] https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-cardiac https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-ca...
    - akomtu 5y ago
      GP made a valid point. The 5x increase of cardiac arrest after 2 shots might be OK if that risk was very low, but if you need to keep getting boosters twice a year, that risk will also grow (how? exponentially?), until one day it becomes a bigger problem than covid. That's my reasoning for waiting out on those booster shots.
kryogen1c 5y ago
> So far, the threat B.1.1.529 poses beyond South Africa is far from clear, researchers say. It is unclear whether the variant is more transmissible than Delta this is danger porn. pay it no mind and have happy holidays.
- ummonk 5y ago
  Ehh - the majority of times I've seen researchers claim this, the variant has turned out to be more transmissible than other variants. Researchers seem to have a track record of being really hesitant to rule out founder effects and acknowledge higher transmissibility even when a variant is clearly spreading faster than its competition.
  - skybrian 5y ago
    Well sure but we could easily wait a week until scientists know more. What would you do now that you’re not doing already?
    - mckirk 5y ago
      Run around screaming, of course! Have to get rid of the holiday-calories _somehow_.
      - WJW 5y ago
        I have never considered the calorie-burning benefits of screaming while running before, opting for just simple running without any type of noise-making before. Maybe I've been missing out on amazing health benefits this whole time! I think I'll have to try tomorrow. (/s for those who were doubting)
    - the8472 5y ago
      > What would you do now that you’re not doing already? Well, if you're a policymaker then suspending travel to prevent it from spreading internationally. If it's the worst case (more infectious than delta + immune evading) then buying a little time to adapt vaccines or produce the recently announced antivirals could save a lot of lives.
vletal 5y ago
Is Nu /ˈnjuː/ (en) /niː/ (cz) a good name? I assume that most people have heard first few letters of Greek alphabet. Yet after Delta they should have switched to Pokemon names. Would be much more robust. I can already imagine all the misspelling in Twitter rants.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  > they should have switched to Pokemon names The slogan "Gotta catch 'em all!" makes that idea even less viable than it first seems.
  - vletal 5y ago
    Maybe colors of PacMan ghosts then?
- hkt 5y ago
  The Shiny Charizard Variant would get the kids into it. Sibling post is right about the slogan though..
- xenonite 5y ago
  On the other hand, it may finally give a reason to learn it.
- Tade0 5y ago
  I wonder if we would eventually reach the Koffing and Weezing variant?
- erhk 5y ago
  There are many covid variants. Nu is simply the next letter in the alphabet Naming a disease after private intellectual property is a terrible idea. Im not sure what that would accomplish.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    Sonic hedgehog (the gene) would disagree with you
Zpalmtree 5y ago
just two more boosters we'll get it this time
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  Only two more boosters, because when those don't stop the virus, they will be replaced with CRISPR treatments that rewrite your DNA to not be susceptible to covid. Of course, if you're against mandatory DNA rewriting then you'll have to be locked up to protect society.
  - Skunkleton 5y ago
    I mean what I am about to ask honestly. Why do you think of vaccinations in this way? From my perspective they are bringing us closer to a normal society at minimal risk. Vaccine mandates have been part of American society (and I assume others) for many years. Why is this one so different for you?
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      I don't recall any vaccine mandate that have been part of America society like this. Are you referring to a flu shot some get yearly?
      - takeda 5y ago
        https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court Also you might not be aware of other mandates, because you received those vaccines as a kid.
        ipaddr 5y ago
        I'm aware of child vaccines and public school requirements. The Covid vaccine mandating adults and businesses is something we have never seen
nojito 5y ago
Very interesting graph on preliminary data is here. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFECnaLXEAMtWdc?format=png&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFECnaLXEAMtWdc?format=png&name=...
- trenchgun 5y ago
  On the other hand: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1463963516990373898 https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1463963516990373898
  - angelzen 5y ago
    That is a rather hopeful chart. Even the very virulent Delta, in a country 25% vaccinated, has receded to almost negligible levels after ~4 months of flaring up.
wnevets 5y ago
Whenever you hear news about mutated COVID and how fast it spreads there are a few important things to remember. 1. Viruses are constantly mutating, its kind of their thing. 2. Most mutations do absolutely nothing or are actually harmful to the virus. 3. When a new mutation is noted to be spreading fast its usually because of the nature of super spreader events and not because the new mutation is more or less transmissible. 4. Scientist and health officials should absolutely be keeping an eye on these things. [0] Vincent Racaniello - SARS-CoV-2 UK variant: Does it matter https://youtu.be/wC8ObD2W4Rk https://youtu.be/wC8ObD2W4Rk
- bserge 5y ago
  5. "News" companies should be heavily fined for every sensationalist bullshit headline they write. If you don't agree based on this one, remember this is the same media that regularly questioned mRNA vaccine safety for fucking months when it was announced, even as people with actual knowledge were explaining how it actually works.
- bhouston 5y ago
  > 3. When a new mutation is noted to be spreading fast its usually because of the nature of super spreader events and not because the new mutation is more or less transmissible. Mostly true but in some very major cases it was because the variant did spread faster in general. Such as Delta and the British variant before hand.
  - ummonk 5y ago
    Yeah by the time fast spreading variants get picked up by the press, they usually are indeed more transmissible, rather than merely founder effects / super spreader events. We've seen this time and time again to the point that the rational evaluation is to assume the new variant is indeed more transmissible. Especially for this variant which is overtaking Delta so quickly that it can't really be explained by super spreader events.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    If such a variant was not spreading faster, how would it ever become a dominant new strain? Just because of some unlucky incident on the other side of the world?
podgaj 5y ago
There is no escape from this unless you attempt to mitigate all your personal health risk factors (diabetes, obesity, etc). I will say this because it is not talked about enough, taking zinc LOZENGES will help right when you get sick because it stimulates the ADAM17 enzyme to cleave ACE2 off of the cells to make Soluble ACE2. The virus attaches to Soluble ACE2 and cannot enter the cell. https://www.mdpi.com/viruses/viruses-12-00491/article_deploy/html/images/viruses-12-00491-g001.png https://www.mdpi.com/viruses/viruses-12-00491/article_deploy...
- podgaj 5y ago
  So you all must think I ma some anti-vaxxer with all these downvotes. Well, I am not. If you are not a mental coward then debate me on the logic and the studies that back this up. The vaccines help, just as much as the flu vaccine does, and even vaccinated people (flu and covid) die from the virus. Vaccines are great but you need to take some responsibility for yourself. More studies on Soluble ACE2 and COVID that are constantly ignored: A novel soluble ACE2 protein protects from lethal SARS-CoV-2 infection https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/resource/pt/covidwho-1489669 https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coro... Bioengineered angiotensin-converting-enzyme-2: a potential therapeutic option against SARS-CoV-2 infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41371-021-00636-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41371-021-00636-y Tumor Necrosis Factor-α Convertase (ADAM17) Mediates Regulated Ectodomain Shedding of the Severe-acute Respiratory Syndrome-Coronavirus (SARS-CoV) Receptor, Angiotensin-converting Enzyme-2 (ACE2) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021925820794330 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002192582... AKI in a mouse model of COVID-19: Therapeutic potential of a novel soluble ACE2 variant https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/resource/pt/covidwho-1489670 https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coro... Killing Two Birds with One Stone by Administration of Soluble ACE2: A Promising Strategy to Treat Both Cardiovascular Diseases and SARS-CoV-2 Infection https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/11/2243 https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/11/2243 Potent prophylactic and therapeutic efficacy of recombinant human ACE2-Fc against SARS-CoV-2 infection in vivo https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00302-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00302-0 Soluble ACE2 in SARS-CoV-2 infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41581-021-00422-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41581-021-00422-6 Zinc supplementation bolsters repurposed antivirals against SARS-CoV-2 https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210202/Zinc-supplementation-alongside-repurposed-antivirals-shows-potential-against-SARS-CoV-2.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210202/Zinc-supplementat... COVID-19: Poor outcomes in patients with zinc deficiency https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197122030730X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197122...
mro_name 5y ago
I found it quite striking, that while infections here are balanced through age groups, fatalities are only 60+ and mostly 80+. e.g. seen on the "Dashboard" on rki.de, chart "COVID-19 cases by age group and sex". Stats indicate old people die. Duh. A tragedy in each case, but that's what will happen eventually, right? And a mutated virus mostly is more contagious but less fatal, isn't it? A virus optimises for spreading, not killing it's taxi. Was like that with delta.
- mupuff1234 5y ago
  I think delta is also considered to be more deadly and has a much higher viral load than the original strain.
  - mro_name 5y ago
    > more deadly than what? If age < 60, e.g. car accidents are orders of magnitude more deadly in my county here. There are just no (= 0) fatalities < 40 years here. So even swallowing hammers is equally or more deadly in that group.
    - ummonk 5y ago
      > than what? Than preceding variants. You're shifting the goalposts by comparing to other causes of death in young people now.
      - erhk 5y ago
        Alpha was more lethal than delta from the sequencing reports posted by my State in the U.S. .4% lethal compared to .3% lethal when I last checked. So thats one goalpost. Another litmus test is that if delta was more lethal it would have been a very popular media talking point. Fear is unfortunately a successful motivator for clicks.
        ummonk 5y ago
        Are you looking at a small enough time span? Because vaccination drives IFR down, and vaccination rates were higher during the main Delta outbreak than during the main Alpha outbreak. Alpha variant was already deadlier than the original strain, and delta variant at least caused higher hospitalization rates than alpha: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n579.long https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n579.long https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03426-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03426-1 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00318-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00475-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...
fallingknife 5y ago
We could have a new mRNA vax against this (and delta) in days. Why are we still using an old vax that targets a strain that barely exists anymore?
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  Even if there was trust sufficient to accept any arbitrary mRNA as the proper target without testing logistics doesn't turn on a dime. Meanwhile here in the real world we have many idiots who think mRNA modifies their DNA.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    Well it kind of does the same thing that modifying DNA would do, but without actually modifying it, so I can't really hate on people for that. But I don't care that much if other people get it. I want it for myself.
- CyanLite4 5y ago
  Because Delta doesn’t evade the current vax immunity, it just replicates significantly faster.
- bananapear 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin
- pfdietz 5y ago
  We could make the new vaccine in days, but then it would take many months to pass through all the regulatory barriers. If the GOP had been smart they'd have been hammering Biden for that instead of doing whatever the hell they are doing. This was a prime opportunity to go "see? Government regulation is bad."
  - mek6800d2 5y ago
    I too miss the good old days before the FDA was established. If a person taking a lethal snakeoil medicine dies, he has only himself to blame (posthumously).
bjufgbw 5y ago
Fuck off fascists! You want to stick a needle in my arm and I'll shoot you in your fucking face. If you all want a hot war so be it.
bjufgbw 5y ago
Branch covidian propaganda. You people are on the very very wrong side of history and will pay dearly for your war crimes.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwaway64643 5y ago
This again reminds that having all your own population gotten 3rd jab (or n-th jab) won't make the pandemic disappear. Meanwhile rest of the world hasn't got their first dose of a reliable vaccine.
- sjwalter 5y ago
  Is there a reliable vaccine? I mean one that's reliable for longer than a few months. A lot of folks are still unaware that e.g., the Pfizer vaccine wanes to ~20% relative risk reduction after only 5 months[1]. This down from the unrestrained silliness of "100% SAFE AND EFFECTIVE" as the corporate press stated when the vaccines were rolling out. There is no way in hell these vaccines can end the pandemic. [1] "Effectiveness declined gradually thereafter, with the decline accelerating after the fourth month to reach approximately 20% in months 5 through 7 after the second dose." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114
  - julieturner99 5y ago
    The evidence isn't yet in for immunity persistence post-booster, with Pfizer or Moderna. There's a chance that immunity wanes less quickly with the booster's 6 month+ window vs the original 2nd shot's 3 week window. Of course, if a mutation evades the vaccine's design then it doesn't matter much, but for the moment I'm hopeful that 5 months out from a booster is still a relatively high protection %.
  - podgaj 5y ago
    The fact that a truthful, fact based comment like this gets downvoted tells me that you all are just scared and cannot a=handle the truth. These are leaky vaccines. That does not mean there is anything wrong with them. They are just leaky, They will not end the pandemic or endemic. The flu vaccine is another leaky vaccine: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truth-about-flu-shot-it-may-not-always-prevent-illness-ncna854456 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truth-about-flu-shot-i...
  - jhedwards 5y ago
    "...protection against hospitalization and death persisted at a robust level for 6 months after the second dose" (from the above linked article) This is the important part in my opinion and I've heard it explained thus: the level of antibodies circulating in the body goes down after six months, so you may be susceptible to infection. However, the immune system creates something called "memory cells" which live in the lymphatic system and will activate a robust immune response if they come into contact with the antigen again.
dekhn 5y ago
I remember when a major leader at Google told everybody once the vaccine was widely available we'd all go back to work and things would be normal. I laughed and told them that they should stick to CS, and that biology and medicine don't work like computers. They didn't like it (and have since moved to New Zealand).
- chana_masala 5y ago
  Why have so many high ranking people moved to NZ?
  - effingwewt 5y ago
    Because to them they are buying safety/isolation. We are all 'in this together', except of course, we aren't.
  - blocked_again 5y ago
    Couple of possibilities 1. Many high ranking people suddenly started leaving USA and move to other countries and New Zeland is just one of them. 2. High ranking people have been always leaving USA to other countries. 3. High ranking people are moving to New Zeland because of reasons which are not necessarily the same for everyone. 4. High ranking people are moving to New Zeland because of one common reason. The reason being. Some possibilities. 4.1 Because of quality of life. Is New Zeland experiencing a sudden influx from non high ranking people as well? 4.2 Because of its remote location and if things go wrong in mainland it might be the safest bet and they think things are going to go wrong bad. Very bad.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      > 4.1 Because of quality of life. Is New Zeland experiencing a sudden influx from non high ranking people as well? I doubt it because immigration is extremely tough there. You either have to be under 35 with desirable qualifications or be some VIP at a major corp. Otherwise you can forget about it.
    - h12nz 5y ago
thedrbrian 5y ago
Just in time for Christmas
RivieraKid 5y ago
This seems like possibly worse news than the appearance of Delta. Because we already had vaccines that worked against Delta.
- trenchgun 5y ago
  Experts seem to be freaking out about Nu's genome. It's far out, and also it includes some of the nastiest mutations to come up in virus evolution studies, such as this: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-00954-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-00954-4
  - erhk 5y ago
    Nasty mutations here referring to solely increased binding to ace2 receptor and increased transmissibility, but not lethality afaict.
- tempestn 5y ago
  As far as I can see, we don't have any idea as yet how well current vaccines will work against this new variant, although there is reason to suspect they could be less effective.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mhh__ 5y ago
The smugness on display here is somewhat remarkable. I get that no one wants to be locked down again, but nature cannot be fooled. I went somewhere that requires mandatory masks + proof of vaccine / test results, it really didn't make any difference to me at all.
- colpabar 5y ago
  How is your comment not smug?
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    Maybe it is, but assuming it's still there a comment saying "We aren't wearing masks in Miami anymore, good luck making us" or something to that effect seemed even more smug
- TheGigaChad 5y ago
  Fucking cuckdown idiot.
musha68k 5y ago
Let’s hope Delta stays dominant - at least for a while - and in time for our next “update” shot: https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343#issuecomment-976989249 https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343...
- TheBlight 5y ago
  If "update" refers to updating the mRNA message to create the new S' protein in order to prompt your immune system to produce S' abs then I think you will be disappointed. This sort of "update" will almost certainly trigger a recall of the former S abs due to immunogenic imprinting. See also: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28479213/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28479213/
  - yozel 5y ago
    Does that mean the people who got vaccinated won't benefit from a new vaccine, but unvaccinated people can?
    - turk- 5y ago
      Yes. And there is a small possibility that something even worse happens for those previously infected/vaccinated called antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). ADE occurs when the antibodies generated during an immune response recognize and bind to a pathogen, but they are unable to prevent infection. Instead, these antibodies act as a “Trojan horse,” allowing the pathogen to get into cells and exacerbate the immune response. The worst case with a new covid strain would be if people who were vaccinated by a previous vaccine or infected by an older strain experience antibody-dependent enhancement after being infected with the new strain. This is where the body recognized the new strain as the old and starts producing anti-bodies. These anti-bodies actually assist the new strain in infecting your cells, making the disease worse. ADE has not been detected with any covid strains/vaccines so its not something to worry about for now but who knows what may happen in the future. I've been keeping my eye out for any news of ADE with any of these new strains. Certain viruses like dengue fever can be much worse if you had previously caught a different strain due to ADE. https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-cent...
dom96 5y ago
It's so interesting watching this get picked up by the news. Many aren't aware but interestingly these variants are identified and designated in the open on GitHub, here is the GitHub issue for this B.1.1.529 designation https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343 https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343. I've recently started watching this repo as it's quite interesting reading about the different variants popping up across the world.
- rossmohax 5y ago
  How to read that branch diagram?
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    just click on the json link below it?
- jcun4128 5y ago
  Wow that's wild would not have thought of that being on GitHub ha
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    GitHub is being used by many governmental agencies as a repository for information, especially numeric and usable for automation (not just for code). Another contextual example is "how many contagions per district, daily", but you could also have "how many herons observed in that territory", etc.
- molticrystal 5y ago
  I thought the visualization provided by NextStrain was fairly fascinating, not to mention it is used by the CDC an other organizations: https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global
- _djo_ 5y ago
  That’s not quite accurate, they’re identified in GISAID [0] and other platforms, which is where scientists upload sampled genetic sequences. It’s also out in the open and free to access. This GitHub repo is just about registering the Pango lineage, based on data already collected and published at other locations. [0] https://www.gisaid.org/ https://www.gisaid.org/
shusaku 5y ago
Does anyone know an article which lists the actual mutations of this one? The Wikipedia variant article still doesn’t seem to have that info
- gadtfly 5y ago
  https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1463975708770897923 https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1463975708770897923
mpol 5y ago
if this variant is more contagious than Delta Plus, we will see it spreading in the UK. The UK seems to be the hub for corona variants. Alpha and Delta variants went haywire, if this one spreads in the UK we should be on alert.
- sprkwd 5y ago
  UK has already red listed SA because of this. Probably means it’s a worry.
andred14 5y ago
More lies for the stupid masses. I have seen no proof for any new sickness. If it does exist then take a sample from one of these millions of "cases", put it under a microscope and SHOW US THE LIVE VIRUS that supposedly can live on surfaces for hours. SHOW US!
theHIDninja 5y ago
molbioguy 5y ago
Variants will continue to to be generated as SARS-CoV-2 is almost certainly endemic. We should be focusing on developing and testing therapeutics and treatment protocols to help as many people as possible, rather than focusing so heavily on vaccinations.
- somewhereoutth 5y ago
  Therapeutics and treatment protocols require a lot more medical staff to implement than a simple jab. The only way to keep cases to a low enough level to be successfully 'processed' by the health system is to maintain fairly severe social restrictions - and maintain them forever.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    Didn't vaccination require huge spending as well? I think governments over-relied on vaccination for their own reasons, even long after it became evident it wasn't going to magically solve the pandemic. At the very least, vaccines should always be combined with some sort of restrictions to prevent the appearance of new variants (since the vaccines themselve create a pressure for the virus towards an escape mutation)
    - somewhereoutth 5y ago
      Absolutely - to my mind vaccines should be used to drive infections to very low levels, if not complete eradication, for the reason you state. I believe that all of our successful vaccination campaigns (against highly contagious viruses) have by necessity resulted in (near) eradication. E.g. Polio, Smallpox, Measles, Rabies (in animals)
mihamaker 5y ago
Africa will still have its say, like India.
ohiovr 5y ago
Dr. McCoy : Who knows? It might eventually cure the common cold, but lengthen lives? Poppycock! I can do more for you if you just eat right and exercise regularly. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708474/characters/nm0001420 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708474/characters/nm0001420
EGreg 5y ago
Natural immunity (including from variolation and small doses of the virus that everyone is constantly being exposed to — acting as a constant low level booster) is formed in response to MANY proteins on the virus, and not just the spike protein. Most vaccines based on an inactivated virus throughout history have stimulated such a response. By contrast, the mRNA vaccines induce a far more limited range of responses — only to a specific protein. So the surface area for the virus needs to mutate escape the immune response is far smaller than from natural immunity or “inactivated virus” vaccines such as the ones which eradicated Smallpox, or Salk’s Polivo vaccine. Why doesn’t this article or many others delve into a distinction between natural immunity / inactivated virus (J&J) immunity and mRNA vaccine induced immunity? It seems like all the reporting is rigged, with almost everyone including scientific journals like Nature seemingly staying away from criticizingmRNA vaccines, and ready to carry water for them even in the absence of evidence in their favor. With the LARGEST studies out of Israel and UK showing thatnatural immunity is far more robust while vaccine immunity wanes and is more limited against mutations, most articles IGNORE this in their reporting and often even claim the opposite — that you should get vaccined even if you have been immune for a year. Homeless people and those constantly exposed to low levels of viruses have more robust immune systems than those who were isolated from everything.
- jsnell 5y ago
  > inactivated virus (J&J) The J&J vaccine wasn't an inactivated Covid virus. Instead it used an adenovirus vector in combination with the Covid spike protein.
- somewhereoutth 5y ago
  J&J (and AZ) is a vectored vaccine, but also delivering the spike protein. Spike was chosen because it is crucial to the entry of the virus to the cell, and so should be relatively well conserved. Certainly seems to be the case with Delta - but apparently not this new variant. My understanding is that disease induced immunity can be a bit patchy - if your body develops antibodies to a conserved region, or a wide range, then fine. If to a region that is presented only on the particular virus that infected you, then you may still be vulnerable to further infections. It has been found that vaccination after infection gives perhaps the best immunity - as if the vaccine focuses the previously too broad immune response somehow.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
archsurface 5y ago
Cry wolf. Again.
helloworld11 5y ago
Really simple: If this new variant does nothing more than previous versions to increase mortality, particularly among the increasingly vaccinated population, obsessing over its spread should be considered pointless and absurd. For one thing, it wouldn't work without endless other streams or authoritarian security theater measures (that in any case themselves don't really work most of the time) And for another thing, "stop the spread" is an idiotic notion without heavy qualification. Stop death? Sure, Stop large quantities of hospitalizations? That too, albeit with cost/benefit calculations applied to all measures, but stopping spread itself for its own sake? Absurd paranoia that has no merit the moment the thing spreading stops being a truly widespread threat. We have lived with colds and flus for all our history without obsessing over their spread. COVID among those who are already immunized or vaccinated is comparably dangerous to common flu strains.
- aembleton 5y ago
  Are existing vaccines effective against this new variant?
  - orhmeh09 5y ago
    Israel reported one positive case and two suspected, all three vaccinated.
    - ca01an 5y ago
      Vaccines only help you not get seriously ill, they don’t seem to help much with preventing covid infection in the first place
      - 271828182846 5y ago
        don't want to sound smug but I think this is very easy to understand with very basic knowledge about the immune system and some common sense.
        5y ago
Kenji 5y ago
Ahahaha you fucking morons. Another mutation. When do you stop believing that bullshit. Fucking lunatics. Meanwhile people in Montana, Florida, etc. do literally nothing and literally nothing happens.
native_samples 5y ago
I'm curious to what extent this sort of data depends on positive tests. It seems there's kind of a contradiction here: we can detect huge numbers of mutations, but only if someone tests positive as otherwise a sample will be ignored by the labs (presumably?). Yet the tests are supposed to be extremely precise. Does anyone know how the need to detect mutations is balanced against the need for the tests to be precise to a specific type of virus?

350 points by abbassi 5y ago

de6u99er 5y ago

We need a globally coordinated strict lockdown if this or a similar variant become dominant.

artificialLimbs 5y ago
I've already got natural immunity. Lock yourself down. I (and millions of others) won't participate in lockdowns. This kind of cowardly response is reprehensible.
- scoutt 5y ago
  Being immune doesn't mean that the virus doesn't "attach" to you, or that you somehow repel the virus. You still get the virus and you can transmit it too. You won't get Covid-19 (the pulmonary decease) but you still carry and spread sars-cov-19. > This kind of cowardly Your behavior is not 'bravery', but selfishness.
  - artificialLimbs 5y ago
    CDC reports 0 cases of transmission from naturally immune persons. https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-of-naturally https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-... >> Your behavior is not 'bravery', but selfishness. I never claimed my behavior was brave, but rather OP cowardly. Not sure how you interpret living life normally, as though the statistics of the disease are what they are is selfish. What do you expect to happen, elimination of Covid? When exactly, would it cease to be 'selfish' to live life normally?
    - scoutt 5y ago
      The virus is quite new, and a statement like "this information is not collected" from just one health organization in the world (CDC), people like the one from your link, which is clearly biased, exaggerates the topic for his freedom-oversensitive audience. Note that "this information is not collected" doesn't mean it is not happening. Or perhaps it's being collected but by some university, somewhere in the world. I don't know. Of course "CDC Admits Crushing Rights of Naturally Immune Without Proof They Transmit the Virus" is just incorrect and misleading. It's a title targeted at a specific audience. Some fall for this kind of content. > What do you expect to happen, elimination of Covid? When exactly, would it cease to be 'selfish' to live life normally? You ask the wrong questions. What you ask doesn't have an answer, and you know that.
      - artificialLimbs 5y ago
        I expect adults to be able to read between the hype in the article. What is a 'freedom-oversensitive audience'? The term reeks of privilege at first whiff. It sounds to me like you (and many people) are OK with abandoning/suspending the constitution (assuming U.S.) because of a slightly more deadly flu. It sounds like you're amenable to pushing authoritarianism as long as it suits you. That dog won't hunt bro. A lot of people are fed up with the blatantly unreasonable responses to this virus. You have offered nothing substantive in your reply and no reasoning for them.
- nojokes 5y ago
  I think you are not really understanding the idea behind this proposition. Humanity actually could eliminate all human to human pathogens with planet wide coordinated lockdowns. It is simple as that. Not being able to do this shows maturity of us. It is not really high, I must say when simple stupid automaton can run us over.
  - de6u99er 5y ago
    Thanks for taking the time and understanding the point I am trying to make. I think if the SARS-Cov-2 virus continues to mutate faster than we can produce and distribute booster shots, then it might be our only option left. Or we just accept that many millions of our (grand-)parents are going to die. We are already now running into supply chain problems around having enough syringes for 2022.
erhk 5y ago
Thats quite an obtuse response that I doubt most health experts would agree with let alone most countries.

alangibson 5y ago

Given the stupefying number of anti-vaxers and rapid viral mutation rates, the only way we get out of this pandemic is by a relatively harmless variant out competing the more deadly ones. Same as with the Spanish Flu.

erhk 5y ago
Fortunately this is the trend for most viruses. I have seen no evidence that the delta variant was more lethal, but that it was more transmissible. I have also seen numbers from my locality sequencing that suggested lethality was significant chunk less than that of alpha.
- yread 5y ago
  > I have seen no evidence that the delta variant was more lethal, but that it was more transmissible Look here then: https://www.cmaj.ca/content/193/42/E1619 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/193/42/E1619 Increased risk [compared to non-variant-of-concern SARS-COV-2] with the Delta variant was more pronounced at 108% (95% CI 78%–140%) for hospitalization, 235% (95% CI 160%–331%) for ICU admission and 133% (95% CI 54%–231%) for death.
  - erhk 5y ago
    Alpha falls into the variant of concern classification, and this is contrasting delta with non-VOCs unless I misunderstand.
    - yread 5y ago
      Just the preceding sentence in the abstract Compared with non-VOC SARS-CoV-2 strains, the adjusted elevation in risk associated with N501Y-positive variants was 52% (95% confidence interval [CI] 42%–63%) for hospitalization, 89% (95% CI 67%–117%) for ICU admission and 51% (95% CI 30%–78%) for death. N501Y is alpha
postalrat 5y ago
Wasn't that always the case?

abbassi 5y ago

Researchers are racing to determine whether a fast-spreading variant in South Africa poses a threat to COVID vaccines’ effectiveness.

Taniwha 5y ago
I don't think we even know that it's "fast spreading" yet. It's just different enough to have set off various scientist's personal danger detectors. The thing is that mutations probably occur all the time, most don't provide any evolutionary advantage and probably never get passed on, the fact that something with this many mutations being viable is a bit worrying - equally I think that the evolutionary pressure that vaccines represent is going to result in mutations that work better in vaccinated people - and as a result we'll make better vaccines - one of the great things about mRNA vaccines is that we can knock out new ones really quickly
- jb1991 5y ago
  > I don't think we even know that it's "fast spreading" yet. We do know: > A new coronavirus variant has been detected in South Africa that scientists say is a concern because of its high number of mutations and rapid spread among young people in Gauteng, the country’s most populous province. “Over the last four or five days, there has been more of an exponential rise,” he said, adding that the new variant appears to be driving the spike in cases. “We can see that the variant is potentially spreading very fast. We do expect to start seeing pressure in the healthcare system in the next few days and weeks.” https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/south-african-scientists-detect-virus-variant-amid-spike-81397494 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/south-african-scient...
- cromka 5y ago
  https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1463846542264131584 https://twitter.com/miamalan/status/1463846542264131584
- erhk 5y ago
  Every sequence is distinct almost certainly. It just matters if the important parts of a sequence are changed or duplicated. So two versions which are sequenced as a certain variant may actually have many differences in practice. I will also add that there are many variants that just havent hit the news cycle. Iirc there was a gamma variant with higher lethality but was much less transmissible.

MissionInfl 5y ago

A similar thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344274

quotemstr 5y ago
Yeah, but this thread has a title that's comprehensible for humans.

HenryKissinger 5y ago

It seems like viruses always tread a spectrum between infectivity and lethality. Does or could a virus exist which: - has a 100% fatality rate, like rabies - can keep the host alive long enough to spread and - cannot be defeated by any prospective vaccine or can evolve fast enough to evade them? Basically, airborne and human-to-human rabies, with no vaccine. Or vaccine resistant ebola, but even more lethal, infectious, and a longer incubation period. Put more concisely, could a virus exist with the potential to wipe us out.

benibela 5y ago
African Swine Fever is like that It is very stable, so it does not need to keep the host alive for long. A corpse is still infectious like weeks laters We are lucky that it can only infect swines

FundementalBrit 5y ago

People are reluctant to get booster jabs because 2 jabs was suppose to be enough and healthy sportsmen and women seem to be dropping like flies with heart attacks. and now a new ultra fast spreading vaccine resistant variant for the media to get people to stay indoors and lockdown. I've had the jab. I need it for travel but people are at a tipping point right now. Peoples trust in the media is shot.

alphabettsy 5y ago
Dropping like flies?
- Rezwoodly 5y ago
  Yeah I'm prone to believe this is manufactured hysteria to drum up vaccination numbers. Fear mongering 101
  - freemint 5y ago
    Why would they do that when it's not certain that the vaccine will work against the virus. I would suspect such news promoting hesitancy and people waiting a while longer.
- User23 5y ago
  Making no judgments as to the accuracy of the source or the underlying data, I believe this[1] is what’s being referred to. A fivefold increase in sudden cardiac deaths among FIFA athletes is pretty weird if it’s true. Presumably these athletes have pretty good cardiovascular health as well as proactive medical care relative to the general population. [1] https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-cardiac https://stephenc.substack.com/p/5-fold-increase-in-sudden-ca...
  - akomtu 5y ago
    GP made a valid point. The 5x increase of cardiac arrest after 2 shots might be OK if that risk was very low, but if you need to keep getting boosters twice a year, that risk will also grow (how? exponentially?), until one day it becomes a bigger problem than covid. That's my reasoning for waiting out on those booster shots.

kryogen1c 5y ago

> So far, the threat B.1.1.529 poses beyond South Africa is far from clear, researchers say. It is unclear whether the variant is more transmissible than Delta this is danger porn. pay it no mind and have happy holidays.

ummonk 5y ago
Ehh - the majority of times I've seen researchers claim this, the variant has turned out to be more transmissible than other variants. Researchers seem to have a track record of being really hesitant to rule out founder effects and acknowledge higher transmissibility even when a variant is clearly spreading faster than its competition.
- skybrian 5y ago
  Well sure but we could easily wait a week until scientists know more. What would you do now that you’re not doing already?
  - mckirk 5y ago
    Run around screaming, of course! Have to get rid of the holiday-calories _somehow_.
    - WJW 5y ago
      I have never considered the calorie-burning benefits of screaming while running before, opting for just simple running without any type of noise-making before. Maybe I've been missing out on amazing health benefits this whole time! I think I'll have to try tomorrow. (/s for those who were doubting)
  - the8472 5y ago
    > What would you do now that you’re not doing already? Well, if you're a policymaker then suspending travel to prevent it from spreading internationally. If it's the worst case (more infectious than delta + immune evading) then buying a little time to adapt vaccines or produce the recently announced antivirals could save a lot of lives.

vletal 5y ago

Is Nu /ˈnjuː/ (en) /niː/ (cz) a good name? I assume that most people have heard first few letters of Greek alphabet. Yet after Delta they should have switched to Pokemon names. Would be much more robust. I can already imagine all the misspelling in Twitter rants.

dane-pgp 5y ago
> they should have switched to Pokemon names The slogan "Gotta catch 'em all!" makes that idea even less viable than it first seems.
- vletal 5y ago
  Maybe colors of PacMan ghosts then?
hkt 5y ago
The Shiny Charizard Variant would get the kids into it. Sibling post is right about the slogan though..
xenonite 5y ago
On the other hand, it may finally give a reason to learn it.
Tade0 5y ago
I wonder if we would eventually reach the Koffing and Weezing variant?
erhk 5y ago
There are many covid variants. Nu is simply the next letter in the alphabet Naming a disease after private intellectual property is a terrible idea. Im not sure what that would accomplish.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  Sonic hedgehog (the gene) would disagree with you

Zpalmtree 5y ago

just two more boosters we'll get it this time

dane-pgp 5y ago
Only two more boosters, because when those don't stop the virus, they will be replaced with CRISPR treatments that rewrite your DNA to not be susceptible to covid. Of course, if you're against mandatory DNA rewriting then you'll have to be locked up to protect society.
- Skunkleton 5y ago
  I mean what I am about to ask honestly. Why do you think of vaccinations in this way? From my perspective they are bringing us closer to a normal society at minimal risk. Vaccine mandates have been part of American society (and I assume others) for many years. Why is this one so different for you?
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    I don't recall any vaccine mandate that have been part of America society like this. Are you referring to a flu shot some get yearly?
    - takeda 5y ago
      https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court Also you might not be aware of other mandates, because you received those vaccines as a kid.
      - ipaddr 5y ago
        I'm aware of child vaccines and public school requirements. The Covid vaccine mandating adults and businesses is something we have never seen

nojito 5y ago

Very interesting graph on preliminary data is here. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFECnaLXEAMtWdc?format=png&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFECnaLXEAMtWdc?format=png&name=...

trenchgun 5y ago
On the other hand: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1463963516990373898 https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1463963516990373898
- angelzen 5y ago
  That is a rather hopeful chart. Even the very virulent Delta, in a country 25% vaccinated, has receded to almost negligible levels after ~4 months of flaring up.

wnevets 5y ago

Whenever you hear news about mutated COVID and how fast it spreads there are a few important things to remember. 1. Viruses are constantly mutating, its kind of their thing. 2. Most mutations do absolutely nothing or are actually harmful to the virus. 3. When a new mutation is noted to be spreading fast its usually because of the nature of super spreader events and not because the new mutation is more or less transmissible. 4. Scientist and health officials should absolutely be keeping an eye on these things. [0] Vincent Racaniello - SARS-CoV-2 UK variant: Does it matter https://youtu.be/wC8ObD2W4Rk https://youtu.be/wC8ObD2W4Rk

bserge 5y ago
5. "News" companies should be heavily fined for every sensationalist bullshit headline they write. If you don't agree based on this one, remember this is the same media that regularly questioned mRNA vaccine safety for fucking months when it was announced, even as people with actual knowledge were explaining how it actually works.
bhouston 5y ago
> 3. When a new mutation is noted to be spreading fast its usually because of the nature of super spreader events and not because the new mutation is more or less transmissible. Mostly true but in some very major cases it was because the variant did spread faster in general. Such as Delta and the British variant before hand.
- ummonk 5y ago
  Yeah by the time fast spreading variants get picked up by the press, they usually are indeed more transmissible, rather than merely founder effects / super spreader events. We've seen this time and time again to the point that the rational evaluation is to assume the new variant is indeed more transmissible. Especially for this variant which is overtaking Delta so quickly that it can't really be explained by super spreader events.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  If such a variant was not spreading faster, how would it ever become a dominant new strain? Just because of some unlucky incident on the other side of the world?

podgaj 5y ago

There is no escape from this unless you attempt to mitigate all your personal health risk factors (diabetes, obesity, etc). I will say this because it is not talked about enough, taking zinc LOZENGES will help right when you get sick because it stimulates the ADAM17 enzyme to cleave ACE2 off of the cells to make Soluble ACE2. The virus attaches to Soluble ACE2 and cannot enter the cell. https://www.mdpi.com/viruses/viruses-12-00491/article_deploy/html/images/viruses-12-00491-g001.png https://www.mdpi.com/viruses/viruses-12-00491/article_deploy...

podgaj 5y ago
So you all must think I ma some anti-vaxxer with all these downvotes. Well, I am not. If you are not a mental coward then debate me on the logic and the studies that back this up. The vaccines help, just as much as the flu vaccine does, and even vaccinated people (flu and covid) die from the virus. Vaccines are great but you need to take some responsibility for yourself. More studies on Soluble ACE2 and COVID that are constantly ignored: A novel soluble ACE2 protein protects from lethal SARS-CoV-2 infection https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/resource/pt/covidwho-1489669 https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coro... Bioengineered angiotensin-converting-enzyme-2: a potential therapeutic option against SARS-CoV-2 infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41371-021-00636-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41371-021-00636-y Tumor Necrosis Factor-α Convertase (ADAM17) Mediates Regulated Ectodomain Shedding of the Severe-acute Respiratory Syndrome-Coronavirus (SARS-CoV) Receptor, Angiotensin-converting Enzyme-2 (ACE2) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021925820794330 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002192582... AKI in a mouse model of COVID-19: Therapeutic potential of a novel soluble ACE2 variant https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/resource/pt/covidwho-1489670 https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coro... Killing Two Birds with One Stone by Administration of Soluble ACE2: A Promising Strategy to Treat Both Cardiovascular Diseases and SARS-CoV-2 Infection https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/11/2243 https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/11/2243 Potent prophylactic and therapeutic efficacy of recombinant human ACE2-Fc against SARS-CoV-2 infection in vivo https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00302-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00302-0 Soluble ACE2 in SARS-CoV-2 infection https://www.nature.com/articles/s41581-021-00422-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41581-021-00422-6 Zinc supplementation bolsters repurposed antivirals against SARS-CoV-2 https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210202/Zinc-supplementation-alongside-repurposed-antivirals-shows-potential-against-SARS-CoV-2.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210202/Zinc-supplementat... COVID-19: Poor outcomes in patients with zinc deficiency https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197122030730X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197122...

mro_name 5y ago

I found it quite striking, that while infections here are balanced through age groups, fatalities are only 60+ and mostly 80+. e.g. seen on the "Dashboard" on rki.de, chart "COVID-19 cases by age group and sex". Stats indicate old people die. Duh. A tragedy in each case, but that's what will happen eventually, right? And a mutated virus mostly is more contagious but less fatal, isn't it? A virus optimises for spreading, not killing it's taxi. Was like that with delta.

mupuff1234 5y ago
I think delta is also considered to be more deadly and has a much higher viral load than the original strain.
- mro_name 5y ago
  > more deadly than what? If age < 60, e.g. car accidents are orders of magnitude more deadly in my county here. There are just no (= 0) fatalities < 40 years here. So even swallowing hammers is equally or more deadly in that group.
  - ummonk 5y ago
    > than what? Than preceding variants. You're shifting the goalposts by comparing to other causes of death in young people now.
    - erhk 5y ago
      Alpha was more lethal than delta from the sequencing reports posted by my State in the U.S. .4% lethal compared to .3% lethal when I last checked. So thats one goalpost. Another litmus test is that if delta was more lethal it would have been a very popular media talking point. Fear is unfortunately a successful motivator for clicks.
      - ummonk 5y ago
        Are you looking at a small enough time span? Because vaccination drives IFR down, and vaccination rates were higher during the main Delta outbreak than during the main Alpha outbreak. Alpha variant was already deadlier than the original strain, and delta variant at least caused higher hospitalization rates than alpha: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n579.long https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n579.long https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03426-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03426-1 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00318-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00475-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

fallingknife 5y ago

We could have a new mRNA vax against this (and delta) in days. Why are we still using an old vax that targets a strain that barely exists anymore?

Nasrudith 5y ago
Even if there was trust sufficient to accept any arbitrary mRNA as the proper target without testing logistics doesn't turn on a dime. Meanwhile here in the real world we have many idiots who think mRNA modifies their DNA.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  Well it kind of does the same thing that modifying DNA would do, but without actually modifying it, so I can't really hate on people for that. But I don't care that much if other people get it. I want it for myself.
CyanLite4 5y ago
Because Delta doesn’t evade the current vax immunity, it just replicates significantly faster.
bananapear 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin
pfdietz 5y ago
We could make the new vaccine in days, but then it would take many months to pass through all the regulatory barriers. If the GOP had been smart they'd have been hammering Biden for that instead of doing whatever the hell they are doing. This was a prime opportunity to go "see? Government regulation is bad."
- mek6800d2 5y ago
  I too miss the good old days before the FDA was established. If a person taking a lethal snakeoil medicine dies, he has only himself to blame (posthumously).

bjufgbw 5y ago

Fuck off fascists! You want to stick a needle in my arm and I'll shoot you in your fucking face. If you all want a hot war so be it.

bjufgbw 5y ago

Branch covidian propaganda. You people are on the very very wrong side of history and will pay dearly for your war crimes.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

throwaway64643 5y ago

This again reminds that having all your own population gotten 3rd jab (or n-th jab) won't make the pandemic disappear. Meanwhile rest of the world hasn't got their first dose of a reliable vaccine.

sjwalter 5y ago
Is there a reliable vaccine? I mean one that's reliable for longer than a few months. A lot of folks are still unaware that e.g., the Pfizer vaccine wanes to ~20% relative risk reduction after only 5 months[1]. This down from the unrestrained silliness of "100% SAFE AND EFFECTIVE" as the corporate press stated when the vaccines were rolling out. There is no way in hell these vaccines can end the pandemic. [1] "Effectiveness declined gradually thereafter, with the decline accelerating after the fourth month to reach approximately 20% in months 5 through 7 after the second dose." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114
- julieturner99 5y ago
  The evidence isn't yet in for immunity persistence post-booster, with Pfizer or Moderna. There's a chance that immunity wanes less quickly with the booster's 6 month+ window vs the original 2nd shot's 3 week window. Of course, if a mutation evades the vaccine's design then it doesn't matter much, but for the moment I'm hopeful that 5 months out from a booster is still a relatively high protection %.
- podgaj 5y ago
  The fact that a truthful, fact based comment like this gets downvoted tells me that you all are just scared and cannot a=handle the truth. These are leaky vaccines. That does not mean there is anything wrong with them. They are just leaky, They will not end the pandemic or endemic. The flu vaccine is another leaky vaccine: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truth-about-flu-shot-it-may-not-always-prevent-illness-ncna854456 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/truth-about-flu-shot-i...
- jhedwards 5y ago
  "...protection against hospitalization and death persisted at a robust level for 6 months after the second dose" (from the above linked article) This is the important part in my opinion and I've heard it explained thus: the level of antibodies circulating in the body goes down after six months, so you may be susceptible to infection. However, the immune system creates something called "memory cells" which live in the lymphatic system and will activate a robust immune response if they come into contact with the antigen again.

dekhn 5y ago

I remember when a major leader at Google told everybody once the vaccine was widely available we'd all go back to work and things would be normal. I laughed and told them that they should stick to CS, and that biology and medicine don't work like computers. They didn't like it (and have since moved to New Zealand).

chana_masala 5y ago
Why have so many high ranking people moved to NZ?
- effingwewt 5y ago
  Because to them they are buying safety/isolation. We are all 'in this together', except of course, we aren't.
- blocked_again 5y ago
  Couple of possibilities 1. Many high ranking people suddenly started leaving USA and move to other countries and New Zeland is just one of them. 2. High ranking people have been always leaving USA to other countries. 3. High ranking people are moving to New Zeland because of reasons which are not necessarily the same for everyone. 4. High ranking people are moving to New Zeland because of one common reason. The reason being. Some possibilities. 4.1 Because of quality of life. Is New Zeland experiencing a sudden influx from non high ranking people as well? 4.2 Because of its remote location and if things go wrong in mainland it might be the safest bet and they think things are going to go wrong bad. Very bad.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    > 4.1 Because of quality of life. Is New Zeland experiencing a sudden influx from non high ranking people as well? I doubt it because immigration is extremely tough there. You either have to be under 35 with desirable qualifications or be some VIP at a major corp. Otherwise you can forget about it.
  - h12nz 5y ago

thedrbrian 5y ago

Just in time for Christmas

RivieraKid 5y ago

This seems like possibly worse news than the appearance of Delta. Because we already had vaccines that worked against Delta.

trenchgun 5y ago
Experts seem to be freaking out about Nu's genome. It's far out, and also it includes some of the nastiest mutations to come up in virus evolution studies, such as this: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-00954-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-00954-4
- erhk 5y ago
  Nasty mutations here referring to solely increased binding to ace2 receptor and increased transmissibility, but not lethality afaict.
tempestn 5y ago
As far as I can see, we don't have any idea as yet how well current vaccines will work against this new variant, although there is reason to suspect they could be less effective.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mhh__ 5y ago

The smugness on display here is somewhat remarkable. I get that no one wants to be locked down again, but nature cannot be fooled. I went somewhere that requires mandatory masks + proof of vaccine / test results, it really didn't make any difference to me at all.

colpabar 5y ago
How is your comment not smug?
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Maybe it is, but assuming it's still there a comment saying "We aren't wearing masks in Miami anymore, good luck making us" or something to that effect seemed even more smug
TheGigaChad 5y ago
Fucking cuckdown idiot.

musha68k 5y ago

Let’s hope Delta stays dominant - at least for a while - and in time for our next “update” shot: https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343#issuecomment-976989249 https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343...

TheBlight 5y ago
If "update" refers to updating the mRNA message to create the new S' protein in order to prompt your immune system to produce S' abs then I think you will be disappointed. This sort of "update" will almost certainly trigger a recall of the former S abs due to immunogenic imprinting. See also: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28479213/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28479213/
- yozel 5y ago
  Does that mean the people who got vaccinated won't benefit from a new vaccine, but unvaccinated people can?
  - turk- 5y ago
    Yes. And there is a small possibility that something even worse happens for those previously infected/vaccinated called antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). ADE occurs when the antibodies generated during an immune response recognize and bind to a pathogen, but they are unable to prevent infection. Instead, these antibodies act as a “Trojan horse,” allowing the pathogen to get into cells and exacerbate the immune response. The worst case with a new covid strain would be if people who were vaccinated by a previous vaccine or infected by an older strain experience antibody-dependent enhancement after being infected with the new strain. This is where the body recognized the new strain as the old and starts producing anti-bodies. These anti-bodies actually assist the new strain in infecting your cells, making the disease worse. ADE has not been detected with any covid strains/vaccines so its not something to worry about for now but who knows what may happen in the future. I've been keeping my eye out for any news of ADE with any of these new strains. Certain viruses like dengue fever can be much worse if you had previously caught a different strain due to ADE. https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-cent...

dom96 5y ago

It's so interesting watching this get picked up by the news. Many aren't aware but interestingly these variants are identified and designated in the open on GitHub, here is the GitHub issue for this B.1.1.529 designation https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343 https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/issues/343. I've recently started watching this repo as it's quite interesting reading about the different variants popping up across the world.

rossmohax 5y ago
How to read that branch diagram?
- LegitShady 5y ago
  just click on the json link below it?
jcun4128 5y ago
Wow that's wild would not have thought of that being on GitHub ha
- mdp2021 5y ago
  GitHub is being used by many governmental agencies as a repository for information, especially numeric and usable for automation (not just for code). Another contextual example is "how many contagions per district, daily", but you could also have "how many herons observed in that territory", etc.
molticrystal 5y ago
I thought the visualization provided by NextStrain was fairly fascinating, not to mention it is used by the CDC an other organizations: https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global
_djo_ 5y ago
That’s not quite accurate, they’re identified in GISAID [0] and other platforms, which is where scientists upload sampled genetic sequences. It’s also out in the open and free to access. This GitHub repo is just about registering the Pango lineage, based on data already collected and published at other locations. [0] https://www.gisaid.org/ https://www.gisaid.org/

shusaku 5y ago

Does anyone know an article which lists the actual mutations of this one? The Wikipedia variant article still doesn’t seem to have that info

gadtfly 5y ago
https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1463975708770897923 https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1463975708770897923

mpol 5y ago

if this variant is more contagious than Delta Plus, we will see it spreading in the UK. The UK seems to be the hub for corona variants. Alpha and Delta variants went haywire, if this one spreads in the UK we should be on alert.

sprkwd 5y ago
UK has already red listed SA because of this. Probably means it’s a worry.

andred14 5y ago

More lies for the stupid masses. I have seen no proof for any new sickness. If it does exist then take a sample from one of these millions of "cases", put it under a microscope and SHOW US THE LIVE VIRUS that supposedly can live on surfaces for hours. SHOW US!

theHIDninja 5y ago

molbioguy 5y ago

Variants will continue to to be generated as SARS-CoV-2 is almost certainly endemic. We should be focusing on developing and testing therapeutics and treatment protocols to help as many people as possible, rather than focusing so heavily on vaccinations.

somewhereoutth 5y ago
Therapeutics and treatment protocols require a lot more medical staff to implement than a simple jab. The only way to keep cases to a low enough level to be successfully 'processed' by the health system is to maintain fairly severe social restrictions - and maintain them forever.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  Didn't vaccination require huge spending as well? I think governments over-relied on vaccination for their own reasons, even long after it became evident it wasn't going to magically solve the pandemic. At the very least, vaccines should always be combined with some sort of restrictions to prevent the appearance of new variants (since the vaccines themselve create a pressure for the virus towards an escape mutation)
  - somewhereoutth 5y ago
    Absolutely - to my mind vaccines should be used to drive infections to very low levels, if not complete eradication, for the reason you state. I believe that all of our successful vaccination campaigns (against highly contagious viruses) have by necessity resulted in (near) eradication. E.g. Polio, Smallpox, Measles, Rabies (in animals)

mihamaker 5y ago

Africa will still have its say, like India.

ohiovr 5y ago

Dr. McCoy : Who knows? It might eventually cure the common cold, but lengthen lives? Poppycock! I can do more for you if you just eat right and exercise regularly. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708474/characters/nm0001420 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708474/characters/nm0001420

EGreg 5y ago

Natural immunity (including from variolation and small doses of the virus that everyone is constantly being exposed to — acting as a constant low level booster) is formed in response to MANY proteins on the virus, and not just the spike protein. Most vaccines based on an inactivated virus throughout history have stimulated such a response. By contrast, the mRNA vaccines induce a far more limited range of responses — only to a specific protein. So the surface area for the virus needs to mutate escape the immune response is far smaller than from natural immunity or “inactivated virus” vaccines such as the ones which eradicated Smallpox, or Salk’s Polivo vaccine. Why doesn’t this article or many others delve into a distinction between natural immunity / inactivated virus (J&J) immunity and mRNA vaccine induced immunity? It seems like all the reporting is rigged, with almost everyone including scientific journals like Nature seemingly staying away from criticizingmRNA vaccines, and ready to carry water for them even in the absence of evidence in their favor. With the LARGEST studies out of Israel and UK showing thatnatural immunity is far more robust while vaccine immunity wanes and is more limited against mutations, most articles IGNORE this in their reporting and often even claim the opposite — that you should get vaccined even if you have been immune for a year. Homeless people and those constantly exposed to low levels of viruses have more robust immune systems than those who were isolated from everything.

jsnell 5y ago
> inactivated virus (J&J) The J&J vaccine wasn't an inactivated Covid virus. Instead it used an adenovirus vector in combination with the Covid spike protein.
somewhereoutth 5y ago
J&J (and AZ) is a vectored vaccine, but also delivering the spike protein. Spike was chosen because it is crucial to the entry of the virus to the cell, and so should be relatively well conserved. Certainly seems to be the case with Delta - but apparently not this new variant. My understanding is that disease induced immunity can be a bit patchy - if your body develops antibodies to a conserved region, or a wide range, then fine. If to a region that is presented only on the particular virus that infected you, then you may still be vulnerable to further infections. It has been found that vaccination after infection gives perhaps the best immunity - as if the vaccine focuses the previously too broad immune response somehow.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

archsurface 5y ago

Cry wolf. Again.

helloworld11 5y ago

Really simple: If this new variant does nothing more than previous versions to increase mortality, particularly among the increasingly vaccinated population, obsessing over its spread should be considered pointless and absurd. For one thing, it wouldn't work without endless other streams or authoritarian security theater measures (that in any case themselves don't really work most of the time) And for another thing, "stop the spread" is an idiotic notion without heavy qualification. Stop death? Sure, Stop large quantities of hospitalizations? That too, albeit with cost/benefit calculations applied to all measures, but stopping spread itself for its own sake? Absurd paranoia that has no merit the moment the thing spreading stops being a truly widespread threat. We have lived with colds and flus for all our history without obsessing over their spread. COVID among those who are already immunized or vaccinated is comparably dangerous to common flu strains.

aembleton 5y ago
Are existing vaccines effective against this new variant?
- orhmeh09 5y ago
  Israel reported one positive case and two suspected, all three vaccinated.
  - ca01an 5y ago
    Vaccines only help you not get seriously ill, they don’t seem to help much with preventing covid infection in the first place
    - 271828182846 5y ago
      don't want to sound smug but I think this is very easy to understand with very basic knowledge about the immune system and some common sense.
      - 5y ago

Kenji 5y ago

Ahahaha you fucking morons. Another mutation. When do you stop believing that bullshit. Fucking lunatics. Meanwhile people in Montana, Florida, etc. do literally nothing and literally nothing happens.

native_samples 5y ago

I'm curious to what extent this sort of data depends on positive tests. It seems there's kind of a contradiction here: we can detect huge numbers of mutations, but only if someone tests positive as otherwise a sample will be ignored by the labs (presumably?). Yet the tests are supposed to be extremely precise. Does anyone know how the need to detect mutations is balanced against the need for the tests to be precise to a specific type of virus?