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Rivian valued at over $100B after biggest IPO of 2021

• ardit33 5y ago
  They will build/sell 1000 cars this year! They should be doing that every day for this kind of evaluation. The truck is nice, but they are playing in the luxury market, which is more limited, and the haven't scaled yet to mass production, which is the hardest part. Right now, everything is build by few batches, and most given to employees. Soo... I think this is a dicey evaluation (it is assuming things can't, wont go wrong). But this market is so crazy, so who knows. Here are the potential pitfalls: 1. The company fails to scale, and has production issues 2. The truck's margin are not good, and operates on a loss for too long 3. The luxury truck market (70k+), which they are currently aiming is small and can't support a large evaluation 4. Competition from current automakers (F-150 Lightening), and GM trucks, which start at 45-60k well equipped, squeezes them from below). Again, there are risks with this kind of evaluation, and while any one of the above risks it not a company killer by itself, two of them will kill this evaluation.
  • mataug 5y ago
    Wasn't Tesla in the same position 10 yrs ago ? You're correct in your observation that $100B is overvalued, but a lot of people are betting big on EVs, no wonder tesla's valuation is much higher than other auto makers
    • fastball 5y ago
      Yes but TSLA's market cap 10 years ago was $3B. TSLA didn't pass $100B til last year, when they produced ~510,000 cars.
      • mataug 5y ago
        That's a good point, could it be that in the last couple of years enthusiasm, and potential of EVs have grown so much that the market is okay with the large valuation of EV manufacturers ? Plus we're witnessing more and more of the consequences of our carbon emissions that most people believe EVs are the future ? On a side note, I think EVs are merely a small piece of the puzzle for solving the climate crisis, wholistic solutions must include public transport, walkable neighborhoods, mixed use zoning and a whole lot more, but that's neither here nor there.
      • xboxnolifes 5y ago
        If I were to guess, Rivian's valuation is in large part because of Tesla's success. Tesla proved the path is possible.
        • fastball 5y ago
          Right, but possible =/= probable. Like just because Unity is doing well doesn't mean I should invest in every video game company on the stock market. But I guess the market isn't rational.
    • semi-extrinsic 5y ago
      Tesla is still in that position today though, when it comes to valuation? They have a larger valuation than Toyota, even though Toyota has 10x higher revenue at similar profit margin. Toyota produces almost 3x as many cars as Tesla per employee. Sure, they are still growing, but it's unclear how that growth will continue. Especially for Model S and X, there are objectively better options on the market today from the traditional manufacturers (BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar, Polestar/Volvo, Hyundai) and from new Chinese brands. Just look at deliveries by model, Model S + Model X peaked at 30 k deliveries per quarter way back in 2018, and has been dropping since. They were the first mover, but apparently have not been able to capitalize on that. Of course the stock market today has moved wholeheartedly to embrace the post-fact meme stocks like Gamestop and Tesla, so I'm not stupid enough to bet on the share price dropping.
      • panick21_ 5y ago
        > Especially for Model S and X, there are objectively better options There are non technically better then the new S/X. S literally is only beaten by 2.4 million $ super cars. Compare vehicles priced the same from other manufactures and technically the Tesla will beat them. Tesla was busy going down market and payed little attention to S/X and that was good strategy. The new generation of S/X will likely reach the peak of those products and more, but again this is tiny part of the story. Tesla valuation might be high, but they are proven manufacturer, who have delivered strong growth for a decade, have many new factories and products in the pipeline and have proven they can execute. Tesla took a long time before they reached what Rivian is now, and had to prove way more. Comparing them is not quite far. Rivian is surfing on what made Tesla possible.
    • asdff 5y ago
      Once auto manufacturers spool up EV production and buyers start buying more EVs, companies like tesla are just screwed. So screwed. They kick started a trend but I don't think they are in a position to hold their market share for very long. A company like Ford has manufacturing facilities around the globe. Tesla makes their cars in a tent, and Rivian is delaying their first order until 2023 despite securing all this funding. Manufacturing is a huge challenge, probably a harder problem to solve than actually designing the EV. To even get the manufacturing capacity that ford has today would cost these companies probably an order of magnitude if not more than what Ford paid to build out this capacity decades ago, given the increases in costs of land, labor, and construction globally over those decades. Best case would be for Tesla or Rivian to lease manufacturing space from an automaker, at which point they always lose out in a price war vs a company that owns their own manufacturing space and doesn't have to lease it from a competitor.
      • panick21_ 5y ago
        Your opinion on Tesla is built based on twitter hot takes. > spool up EV production and buyers start buying more EVs, companies like tesla are just screwed. That's what people have been saying since 2016. Yet Tesla sells almost 3 times as many BEV as the second best. More then basically all other non-China companies combined. Other manufactures have announced their scaling plans publicly, turns out they can't magically make EVs. You severly underestimate how difficult it is to suddenly build something totally different that depends on different suppliers and supply chains. If it was so easy, why are they not doing it. Why are their plans by 2025 still below what Tesla is doing now in many cases? If its so easy according to you. > Tesla makes their cars in a tent They built 1 final assembly line in 'tent' that was actually a pretty stable fixed structure that pratically is almost no difference to a traditional factory building. The guy who did that was well respected manufacturing engineer that since built the factory for Lucid. The CEO of VW just had an emergency meeting saying that Tesla is doing better in manufacturing then them. I bet you have heard 1000 times about the 'tent' and nothing about the CEO of VW point out that they need to do better to keep up with Tesla. Tesla is doing fantastic at manufacturing and scaling manufacturing, this is a simple fact. Tesla next generation factories are even a significant step beyond what they have done in China, and that factory is doing amazing. Tesla is vertically integrating battery and car manufacture into the same buildings, nobody else is close to that outside of maybe BYD, they have actually made innovations in body manufacture that is beyond what anybody else has, and its not close. Tesla electronics is way beyond any other companies. You seem to have built your opinion of Tesla in 2017 and not adjusted to what actually going on since then. A 'lease manufacturing company' simply doesn't exist that could help Tesla. The best one is Magna Steyr and they couldn't come close to building what Tesla can.
  • poniko 5y ago
    It's amazing they are almost at the same market value as the makers of Porsche ... And that company also happens to do millions of VW, Audi, Skoda, Cupra, Seat, Lamborghini, Ducati, Bently and now own a chunk of the new Bugatti/Rimac I'm having a hard time grasping the valuation..
    • nrb 5y ago
      Hard to read it as anything other than epic FOMO on the next Tesla.
  • bigyellow 5y ago
    Yeah! You go and tell that global market what the true valuation is! I'm sure they will listen to the reasonable, diligent analysis put forth and adjust accordingly!
  • eigenspace 5y ago
    > They will build/sell 1000 cars this year! They should be doing that every day for this kind of evaluation. This sort of statement doesn't really make sense. Investors don't invest based on how a company is operating today. At that point, it's basically too late. They invest based on how they believe the company will be doing in the future. Personally, I'm agnostic about the future of Rivian, and suspect this valuation is probably way too high, but I definitely don't think that because of their current production numbers.
    • mym1990 5y ago
      Don't you need to take into account current conditions to forecast into the future? Unless there is some silver bullet information or wild speculation, predicting future financial states needs some basis to stand on.
      • eigenspace 5y ago
        Sure it plays a role, but mostly only in mature businesses. But that's clearly not a factor in many other investments. If you truly believe that an immature business like Rivian will explosively grow, then you'd be an idiot to wait for that growth to happen before investing. You'd just be leaving money on the table. Of course, we don't know for sure what'll happen with Rivian, but clearly some people with money have some strong beliefs.
        • kgwgk 5y ago
          Some people with money are buying cryptographic keys with a tenuous connection to digital images of rocks and whatnot. What a time to be alive.
  • chemeng 5y ago
    Valuation is on potential, but I agree with sentiment. They will get mass production up and running over the next 2 years. Whether there will be demand then or not is unclear to me. I think people are underestimating the extent to which the electric F-150 will eat up the demand in the market for Rivian mass market products. So to me, it feels like the bet is their commercial fleet business (Amazon) will grow rapidly and be highly valuable, which given Amazon's 20% stake, seems like a reasonable bet. I don't personally think that's 100Bn mkt cap, but that's why I won't be buying in unless the outlook changes.
• ricardou 5y ago
  It's crazy to me that such a large valuation was obtained by Rivian. I suppose having the backing of Amazon signals a certain level of success. Looking forward to seeing more good-looking EVs enter the market, yet I'm hesitant due to the challenges they'll face ahead (charging, manufacturing, etc.)
  • pengaru 5y ago
    > I suppose having the backing of Amazon signals a certain level of success. Blue Origin seems like a bit of a pathetic failure though.
    • Rebelgecko 5y ago
      Has Amazon actually done anything to back or signal their favor towards BO? IIRC, Kuiper is actually planning on using other launch providers
      • greedo 5y ago
        That's because they have no choice if they want to launch before Starlink has dominated the market. New Glenn is sooooo far behind schedule.
    • mataug 5y ago
      Blue is run by Jeff directly, and has multiple internal cultural problems similar to Amazon, along with the fact that they just don't have the rocket tech that SpaceX has Amazon is just an investor in Rivian, and I think based on how well the rivian prototypes held up in the show "long way up", they have a great shot at competing with Ford F150 lightning and the Tesla CyberTruck
      • pengaru 5y ago
        > based on how well the rivian prototypes held up in the show "long way up" You came away from that with a positive impression of the Rivians? I guess we can say at least they didn't burst into flames... But they did break, and one particular occasion stands out in my mind involving some inexplicably vulnerable low-hanging hydraulic reservoir striking a rock. For a truck it seemed like a pretty stupid red-flag design choice.
• cateye 5y ago
  314 miles range to "experience nature" feels very problematic. I immediately had to think about the movie "Into the wild".
  • mataug 5y ago
    Yea ~300 miles isn't that much, especially since the range drops while driving uphill. I believe they are planning a charging network at popular trails and remote locations. This seems like its gonna take atleast 5yrs if not more to become reliable enough to not have range anxiety.
    • greedo 5y ago
      Range drops while driving uphill, when in cold weather, and when using juice for heating. Winter driving is one of the unspoken issues with EVs.
      • baq 5y ago
        TBH my diesel VW bus also has ~25% less range in the winter (especially when doing mostly short trips) and burns fuel like there's no tomorrow when driving uphill.
        • greedo 5y ago
          But you can refuel it in minutes, and easily carry extra diesel in jerrycans.
      • bink 5y ago
        By the same token it recharges when going downhill.
        • greedo 5y ago
          It's still a net negative; there's no perpetual machine inside. Regen braking can only do so much. And if you're towing you're even in worse shape with battery life.
• pengaru 5y ago
  Do they correct for inflation when making comparisons for "biggest IPO?"
  • dgellow 5y ago
    They say "biggest IPO *of 2021*". Not "biggest ever".
    • pengaru 5y ago
      Sure, and in Q1 of 2021 I was buying ribeye steaks for about 25% less than I can today at my local grocer...
• cs702 5y ago
  Rivian is investing aggressively to ramp up production to ~1M vehicles/year by 2030. If average selling price per vehicle in 2030 is more or less similar to Tesla's today -- call it $50K/vehicle, to keep the arithmetic simple -- then a market cap of $100B today is equal to ~2x the annual revenue forecast for 1M vehicles in 2030, assuming everything goes well and there are no major hiccups along the way. These figures strike me as as extremely over-optimistic, to say the least, but at least I can see how smart people might be rationalizing the purchase and ownership of Rivian stock at this valuation to themselves so they can sleep soundly at night.[a] -- [a] I mean, it's not impossible: Tesla's run-rate production and sales now exceed 1M vehicles/year, and the new Tesla gigafactories already built or being developed are supposed to bring production to 4-5M Tesla vehicles/year well before the end of the decade.
  • ardit33 5y ago
    They are playing in the 70-80k+ luxury truck/suv market. That type of market doesn't have the volume they are aiming. They will have to build cars that compete with the mid tier (40k-50k) to be able to sell on those volumes. At that tier you are competing with every other manufactor, from kia, to ford, to VW, Audi, GM etc... Their truck looks nice, but just not sure they can support their current evaluation with such a limited production.
    • samstave 5y ago
      >>70-80k+ luxury truck/suv market. Have you actually be shopping for a truck lately -- that ~70-80K 'luxury' truck makret is lit what every single truck manufacturer is playing in... Its SICK.. Trucks should be FUCKING TRUCKS - machines used to haul shit you cant carry as a human - nothing else. Not only are they extra expensive - they are 90% plastic!
      • sojournerc 5y ago
        Used fleet trucks can serve this market, but even they get snatched up for too much these days. You can pry my old jeep cherokee out of my cold dead hands. Among the last vestiges of a simple, rugged, affordable, vehicle that serves a purpose well without bells or whistles.
• throwawaysea 5y ago
  I don't get the valuation. To me it seems like like Rivian is behind on their original product promise. The current models listed on the site have a range of only ~300 miles, while a lot of the original hype and excitement was around vehicles with ~400 miles of range. I wonder if this product really makes sense right now. If you're hauling people and gear, or going offroad, or towing, you will have even less efficiency. In a gas vehicle you can carry jerry cans and refill your tank. With an electric truck or SUV without a range extender or an option to carry an extra battery pack or whatever, you have no way to work around this. As such I can't see these really serving as a practical "adventure" vehicle even though that's what the marketing is.
  • robohoe 5y ago
    Folks that buy trucks for utility will keep buying ICE trucks until the EVs solve that problem. For now, this EV truck is for folks in the city and suburbs - hardly any of them will see true off-roading.
    • aeharding 5y ago
      Pickup trucks are no longer used for their original intended purpose. The vast majority of new trucks are simply masculine posturing driving an arms race that's literally killing people. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/the-hidden-dangers-of-big-trucks/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/the-hidden-danger... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dangerous-rise-of-the-supersized-pickup-truck https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-11/the-dange...
• Invictus0 5y ago
  I read the S-1--it's one of the worst I've ever seen, to be honest. Rivian has no strategy whatsoever. Their FleetOS is 100% built to Amazon's spec. If Amazon were to withdraw support for any reason, they would have invested billions in the truck/software R&D only to have basically no one to sell to.
  • dragontamer 5y ago
    Why would Amazon crash a company that they own 20% of? Rivian is basically Amazon's baby, roughly worth $20 Billion at this IPO price.
    • mym1990 5y ago
      It really wouldn't be the first time that a company shuts down a 'baby'. 20% of 20 billion for Amazon is literally pocket change.
      • louissm_it 5y ago
        The 20% is (according to the IPO atleast) worth 20 billion dollars, not 20% of 20 billion dollars.
      • dragontamer 5y ago
        Rivian is right now worth $100+ Billion. 20% of which is $20 Billion, and is Amazon's stake.
        • mym1990 5y ago
          I think 20 billion is still pocket change for a company with a 1.8T market cap. And if Amazon did want to divest, they would likely just sell instead of taking a full loss.
          • dragontamer 5y ago
            Market cap? No one uses market cap when talking about dollars in this manner. I'd argue shareholder equity is the more reasonable metric. Amazon has 320-Billion in assets and 100-billion in liabilities. That means a CEO looks at Amazon and sees the $320 Billion it can use for operations (which includes all of Amazon's properties, warehouses, equipment, etc. etc.), and the $100 Billion Amazon owes other companies (ie: liabilities). So $220 Billion total equity. That means that this Rivian stake is literally 10% of Amazon's equity. That's no small percent by any stretch of the imagination.
• tw600040 5y ago
  Can someone smarter than me explain how this is happening? If it has this market cap, someone is buying at that valuation. Why? Greater fool theory?
  • Swizec 5y ago
    “omg I wish I had bought Tesla early”
  • missedthecue 5y ago
    It's obvious. Nothing is more profitable than a new business in an extremely competitive and cutthroat industry with entrenched players, that also requires very high levels of annual CapEx spend simply to sustain production.
    • dragontamer 5y ago
      And one of those entrenched players (Ford) owns 13% of Rivian. Oy, this market is going all topsie-turnie right now. Ford's singular, biggest asset is its stake in Rivian for crying out loud. And with a Market cap of only 80 Billion or so, Ford is smaller than Rivian at these valuations.
      • mistrial9 5y ago
        perhaps its crazy - but, the money is flowing towards the future, not the past. Ford Motor Company has not been a winner in the last 20 years, while Tesla has attracted new money.
        • dragontamer 5y ago
          Ford is up this year more than Tesla is actually. I'm betting their partnership with Rivian is a big part of that. EDIT: Year-to-date YTD at least. I thought F was up more than Tesla in 52-week but I was mistaken. Still though, you can see that the F ticker has skyrocketed with this strategy, despite the obvious headwinds of "Ford doesn't have enough chips to even make their allotted cars this year". Like, I get it. Its a strategy for Ford / Amazon to be "hip" and "cool" by supporting Rivian and participating in this hype. Its stupid but it seems like its working, for F's stock to go up so much despite all of the manufacturing issues they had (idle factories / layoffs), is just how stupid this market is right now. There's so much stupid in the market these days that its hard to keep up.
• TrackerFF 5y ago
  Maybe it's just my location (Europe), but I have never heard of Rivian. Not even once. The guys I work with are car enthusiasts, and I've never even heard them mention that name.
  • beberlei 5y ago
    its extremely "new", they only shipped a few cars yet. This video here is one of the first external reviews, i watched that to get an idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpBMld6U9B0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpBMld6U9B0
  • ardit33 5y ago
    They are american, and their are playing to the truck/suv market, which is more USA thing. I have seen their truck and SUV in person (NY auto-show), and it is indeed very nice inside. Feels like a Luxury Jeep done right, appart their front headlights, which are weirdly too close to each other (the only detail i really disliked). Everything else is on point and feels almost Audi like quality.
  • bkovacev 5y ago
    I'm also in Europe, in a small Eastern European country and we definitely heard of them. My inner circle also heard of them - maybe you guys are just way into V8 or 3.0L V6 :) ?
  • m4rtink 5y ago
    I'm from Europe and I sure did - its from the same country Geralt comes from!
    • WillPostForFood 5y ago
      They should do a Geralt driving a Rivian to slay some monsters ad.
  • Slartie 5y ago
    I'm from Europe as well, and I've seen them prominently featured last year in the documentary series "Long Way Up" on Apple TV+. Nice series btw, if you like beautiful scenery.
• qqtt 5y ago
  Lots of talk about balking at this valuation, and that is probably a reasonable reaction, but as others have said, I want to point out that companies are valued based on their future and projected growth, not how much they are worth today. Much has been made about Tesla being worth more than all other automakers combined, but let's look at the growth. Tesla Q3 Revenue: 13.76B, Year over year growth: 56% Tesla Q3 Net Income: 1.6B, Year over year growth: 388% GM Q3 Revenue: 26.78B, Year over year growth: -24% GM Q3 Net Income: 2.42B, Year over year growth: -40% Tesla is growing like bonkers, wildly more profitable, and has a much brighter future than GM given these trajectories. It's almost like either GM is severely overvalued at 90B market cap or Tesla is undervalued at 1T. Tesla has also proven that traditional automakers really struggle to keep up with the electric car race - from software to supply chain. Rivian, like Tesla, is built top to bottom to play in this market, with the added backing of Amazon and products tailor made for enterprise scale needs that companies like Amazon need. Of course Rivian is a risky investment today - their stock is priced for perfection. We saw what happened last quarter when stocks priced for perfection fall short (take a look at Snapchat). But plenty of these arguments "Rivian is only selling 1000 cars!" also applied to Tesla about 10 years ago. A business is valued based on its future prospects. Growth companies are risky. Edit to add Ford numbers: Ford Q3 Revenue: 35.68B , Year over year growth: -4% Ford Q3 Net income: 1.8B, Year over year growth: -23% Also want to point out - all automakers are operating in the same pandemic - Ford, GM, and Tesla are all dealing with supply chain issues and chip shortages.
  • maxerickson 5y ago
    What year will Earth be fully converted to a giant ball of Tesla vehicles?
    • Swenrekcah 5y ago
      If Tesla sells this year 800,000 units of 2 tons each, and keep up 388% growth every year, then according to my calculations they will have depleted earths crust in a little over 19 years.
      • onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
• Animats 5y ago
  Meanwhile, first vehicle shipments slipped from summer 2021 to spring 2022.
  • mym1990 5y ago
    Am I the only one thinking that the Rivian truck headlights/front grill is one of the most unappealing things I have ever seen on a vehicle?
    • caseyf7 5y ago
      No, but they are like the iPhone notch. After you see them a few times, it won't look strange.
      • imilk 5y ago
        The cutout on the screen still looks out of place to me.
    • rad_gruchalski 5y ago
      It’s a matter of taste. Some people like the Tesla frog face, some like Rivian. Rivian looks okay.
  • ProAm 5y ago
    Telsa's time frames are never accurate either.
    • Animats 5y ago
      The point is that they went public before shipping a product.
      • ProAm 5y ago
        I mean does that even matter anymore? We have company go public that are still losing billions of dollars a year and nowhere near being profitable. I do see your point but I think the world is way past caring about foundational basics anymore.
• arthur_sav 5y ago
  I'd imagine that this is how 1999 felt like. Blind optimism, gurus promising the future and companies with bogus valuations that haven't made a single dime yet. I'm gonna grab my pop corn.
  • DavidKarlas 5y ago
    I read "pop corn" as "dot com" :P
  • johnebgd 5y ago
    The fed wasn’t buying junk bonds in 1999 to keep failing companies afloat. There wasn’t an overvaluation of everything from real estate to NFT’s. The decade before hadn’t seen QE used to help bail out the rich. There wasn’t stagflation happening. The worlds most powerful country wasn’t deeply divided on every major issue. China wasn’t sending fighter jets to Taiwan and their leader wasn’t giving speeches about retaking that land while the USA conducted war games admitting it couldn’t stop them. The tech bubble of 1999 is looking pretty good by comparison.
    • deleted 5y ago
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• lgleason 5y ago
  This smells like a bubble.
  • nowherebeen 5y ago
    I wonder if Evergrande will have a ripple effect and burst this bubble.
    • Ekaros 5y ago
      It won't be pretty when these companies come crashing down in valuation. Not that they won't survive, but to anyone it should be clear that market is entirely over heated... Just have to see what is the actual trigger and how much bigger will it be pumped...
  • RyanShook 5y ago
    A company with almost zero vehicles on the road is worth more on paper than Ford and GM. Very concerning.
• newaccount74 5y ago
  The only explanation for this valuation is that Rivian is pretty much exactly what people wanted in a Tesla pickup. Rivian managed to build a car that people actually want. Their car is a really great pickup truck with all the stuff that people want in a utility vehicle (flexible storage space! air compressor! power outlets! easy to build out!) And the Rivian looks close enough to a normal pickup that people aren't going to feel stupid driving them. Nobody who wants a work / camping / towing truck is going to buy a Cybertruck. A cybertuck is a car for programmers who make too much money and want to feel like Robocop. I think Rivians high valuation just shows that they managed to nail a market segment that Tesla floundered.
  • ab_testing 5y ago
    Or may be it is overvalued due to cheap money. Investors have valued the company at revenue that they might achieve after about 30 years in the business.
  • CarVac 5y ago
    The Rivian is not a work pickup though, it has a tiny bed.
    • reilly3000 5y ago
      Not all work involves 8 foot sheet goods. A whole lot of it involves hauling around a small amount of equipment. If more is needed most are better off with an enclosed walk-in utility truck or a trailer. Long bed pickups are really quite rare, and almost never have a crew cab… and they are a real hassle to drive and park.
    • jackorange 5y ago
      I've seen smaller trucks at work. The bed size doesnt matter as much as towing capacity.
    • el_benhameen 5y ago
      I think it’s worth keeping in mind that a large number (perhaps a majority?) of people buying high-end “work trucks” use little to none of the work capacity of those trucks.
• notjustanymike 5y ago
  So there's obviously a lot of reasons why this is too much, but can anyone opine what the pro reason are? The main one I see is Ford's involvement looks an awful lot like they're considering the future of the F-150.
• boringg 5y ago
  Rivian investors who bought in todays price are going to smoked by a truck in the not too distant future. I love what Rivian (& Tesla) are doing but these P/E ratios are from another planet and are feeding off the hype train. Unless the world internalizes that P/E ratios have now permanently been reset at crazy high valuations it is not sustainable price wise. With this valuation - the amount of execution risk and market penetration risk is formidable.
  • asdff 5y ago
    Robinhood literally pushed me a notification that their ipo was available. Never even looked up the company on the app or heard of it really before that notification. Smells like a pump, waiting for the dump now.
    • yaitsyaboi 5y ago
      You sure they didn’t push the notifications because it’s the biggest stock news today?
      • asdff 5y ago
        They never push me other messages just for these meme stock IPOs I've never heard of.
        • deleted 5y ago
          [deleted]
  • drexlspivey 5y ago
    P/E is a meaningful metric for established companies that have exited the hyper-growth phase and have reached some scale. Not so much for younger companies/startups because it completely ignores potential future growth. You can’t compare the P/E of coca cola with Rivian or Tesla
    • boringg 5y ago
• FridayoLeary 5y ago
  So they make a pickup and an SUV. How can they possibly be bigger then ford? People are pouring money into them specifically because they don't have any baggage. The only reason that Ford is not worth 100B is because they are saddled with management. I think another factor is at play here- car manufacturers are digging deeper and deeper into their heritage cupboard creating new designs that are vaguely reminiscent of 50 yo models. They also include unique design elements such as grilles and headlights and this has been expanding to every part of the car and often gets in the way of functionality. I think drivers are fed up of this stupid self promotion and are tired of all this.
  • stefan_ 5y ago
    The secret is to not actually make anything. Then there is no disappointment and bad news.
• asdff 5y ago
  Hasn't sold a car yet and worth as much as Ford.
  • sesuximo 5y ago
    The funny thing is Ford owns a chunk of them. Yet Ford stock went down today. (Also to be fair they’ve sold a handful of cars…)
• princevegeta89 5y ago
  Just ended up getting in line for an R1S. I am hyped about this company and believe they will present a true competition to Tesla and the likes
• erpellan 5y ago
  So that’s about $1B per production vehicle delivered? Not bad!
  • Ekaros 5y ago
    So you are telling me if I make single production vehicle I can sell a company for 1B?
    • manquer 5y ago
      Compared to Nikola Motors that would be big bing improvement. Making anything production ready is hard, if you can get a company to make one production car, you have solved a ton of the problems that will kill most companies It is not smooth sailing after of course, but lot of the problems are already solved
• yalogin 5y ago
  I don't understand the valuation of these electric car companies. They are completely nuts. A good design doesn't make it valuable. Take Rivian for example, the car is not out and we don't know if they can even deliver the vehicles as promised in Jan 2022. That means we have no idea how crappy or how good the vehicles will be. Even then a 100b valuation is just nuts. For an electric car the biggest parameter is the charging network. These guys have nothing. So all those adventure trucks are only useful around the city and nothing else. Why are people thinking this is 100b worth?
  • beervirus 5y ago
    It’s what’s trendy to invest in. It makes as much sense as GME and NFTs.
• ChrisArchitect 5y ago
  Uggh, pickup trucks. (eyes COP26 climate change summit)
• deleted 5y ago
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• oxplot 5y ago
  Very happy for Rivian - I hope they stay afloat and give Tesla some worthy competition which will benefit consumers in the end.
• gandutraveler 5y ago
  If you had a choice to go to space would you use SpaceX or Bezos's Blue Origin? If you had a choice to buy a EV car would you ....?