24 ms·

Is going to the office a broken way of working?

338 points by sien 5y ago

InternetPerson 5y ago
Yes! I've been wondering if people prefer to work from home. Now I can finally read all your comments to find out!!
jdlyga 5y ago
My team pre-covid had half the team in New York and half the team in Warsaw. Post-covid, we have 1 person in New York, one in Philly, 2 in California, and 1 in Warsaw. We could've never set up a team like this if we were expected to be together in one office.
Zababa 5y ago
Something that's very important when considering "the office": open spaces. For some people, they are terrible. Going to the office in a private office, in a small office with a few people or in an open space with 20+ people are all very different things for very different kind of people. I personally don't like open offices, especially where there are people behind me.
- innocentoldguy 5y ago
  I agree! I cannot function in an open office environment. They are too loud, there are too many disgusting odors (e.g. food, body spray/cologne/perfume, body odor, halitosis, etc.), and there is too much movement going on for me to concentrate on anything. I also hate people looking over my shoulder. I'd be more productive working in front of a strobe light in the center ring of a circus with a clown banging his meaty finger into my chest and demanding I name ten fruits.
- cgrealy 5y ago
  Could not agree more. Open plan offices are death to producitivity. They were fine when you had a massive pool of people doing mechanical bureaucracy but they are terrible for anyone doing anything creative or knowledge based. They are also a major problem with hybrid offices: meetings/conference calls. If everyone is in the office, you find a meeting room... no problem (assuming you can find one). If everyone is remote, you all jump on a call... no problem. When half the team are remote, and multiple teams are remote, you suddenly have way more calls in an open plan office, which is horrific.
- cube00 5y ago
  I'm starting to realize the same thing. In my case I go to an office to set next to a call center where they're on their phones all day non-stop talking about things that have nothing to do with my work. All my colleagues work in other cities so I either way we're meeting virtually, at least by staying home I don't contribute to the noise level on the floor. If I could come in to a space that just had the people I worked with I'd be more inclined to that. Even if they offered a quieter space to work that might be better but what's the point when I'm already fortunate enough to a quiet space at home. We're currently getting the push to get back into the office now by guilting us that we're killing the local cafes around our building, even though I never purchase take away coffee and bring my lunch from home because I'm cheap.
notacoward 5y ago
I did the "remote with monthly visits" thing for three and a half years. I honestly didn't mind, there were even some things I liked about it, but it sure as heck isn't for everyone. And then there's the carbon-footprint issue. It was bad enough when it was just me, but having everyone do it (as suggested in the article) would be truly awful. If you're going to be remote first, be remote first. That means not only people working from home, but a work flow designed for that environment. Written, asynchronous, open. Not big frequent video calls that replicate in-person meetings, augmented by private calls that fill in the gaps but also create/reinforce clique structures (and exacerbate "Zoom fatigue"). Companies that do true remote first can succeed. Companies that do "remote first" as a poor approximation of in-office presence get the worst of both worlds.
marto1 5y ago
To put it simply: No, working at an office is not intrinsically bad or evil, BUT everything around it is sufficiently broken to the point where people really don’t want to deal with it. This includes commutes, housing, healthcare in some(!) countries, proximity of schools, logistics when raising a family, car dependence, low balling from HR and many many others.
telotortium 5y ago
By Cal Newport
- jstx1 5y ago
  Who has made a second career out of condescendingly presenting his own opinions as fact.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    His blog has always had great material, but as with many bloggers who branch out, the pressures and incentives to pump out vapid contentless thinkpieces increase with success. Not saying that necessarily applies to TFA, though. But imo it does apply to the somewhat overrated Deep Work.
AlexanderDhoore 5y ago
Yes. And so is working from home. It's all broken.
- delaaxe 5y ago
  Working is broken?
  - codetrotter 5y ago
    The world is broken.
    - wussboy 5y ago
      This is unfair. In an uncaring universe, humans have done quite well. The world was never “fixed” for us to break, and it never will be. The fact most of us live in civil societies of any kind is a miracle or the first order. I get frustrated at this nihilism. A quick trip to any point in the part would reveal how truly lucky we are right now, and would inspire us to drag our sorry species even further from the abyss.
      - WJW 5y ago
        Things can be quite far from "the absolute worst" and still be quite far from perfect, too.
        waynesonfire 5y ago
        we're not that far from absolute worst. the world is savage. Continuing my rant, it's one of the things I like about Jordan Peterson. His ideas face this fact head-on. He reminds listeners and readers of this and then presents his ideas given this truth. It seems to me that a philosophical idea that doesn't incorporate that as a basis is fundamentally flawed as it's a pretty important detail.
        WJW 5y ago
pmontra 5y ago
IMHO no even if I've been working from home since 2006 when I became self employed. What's broken is having to go to the office every single day. In my experience before and after starting to work from home there is an absolute need to work face to face either to create some bonds between the team members or with a customer or in those rare phases when you have to create something and you need to go full speed with brainstorming sessions, talk to people etc. In those cases a physical presence is much more efficient that remote communications.
- notyourwork 5y ago
  Our team has started monthly in-person get togethers. We recently went kayaking and had dinner after. Each month we pick someone to plan the next month's activities and use this as a way to bond and realize we are people, not just online aliases. It's worked pretty well now that vaccines and such are readily available and people are becoming more comfortable with in person stuff.
- marcusverus 5y ago
  Someone is going to pay for that increased efficiency--either your Employer will pay in dollars, or you will pay some opportunity cost. Why should you pay? After all, there are plenty of things that you could do in your spare time that would make you a more efficient employee. But you wouldn't let your employer tell you to work unpaid for an hour each Monday, preparing for the week. Nor would you let them require that you spend an unpaid hour of your free time reading or doing professional development each week. The only difference between those things and commuting is that we've all been conditioned (not in any nefarious way, just by the reality of work in the past) to consider a commute a hard requirement to have a job. But it's not anymore. Your time is a commodity. Why give it away?
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    > Nor would you let them require that you spend an unpaid hour of your free time reading or doing professional development each week. Depending on how you look at things, this may or may not be necessary to be done on your own accord in your free time to avoid your skills getting dated and irrelevant. Essentially, you do have to keep up with at least some of the new developments within the industry to remain employable, especially if you don't have any of the FAANG companies on your resume. While your employer might not necessarily expect you to do it, you might have to do that in your own interest, without getting paid for it.
rblion 5y ago
Living in Maui, I have a remote job (my agency/consultancy) and a job doing fun stuff (driving people to Hana, Haleakala OR working on a whalewatching boat). I am setting up residual income streams to save for my own property here. I have a startup/movement I am working on as well, freeing up my time from clients to invest more time and money into it. Balance is the key to fulfillment, to longevity.
- OldHand2018 5y ago
  You might want to edit that it's a whale watching boat, not a what hunting boat. Unless... Sounds like a great balance you have; good luck saving up for the house!
  - merpnderp 5y ago
    If someone is bothered enough about whale hunting to get triggered by someone working a whale boat, they already know there's no whale hunting operations out of Hawaii.
Ancalagon 5y ago
I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven months before the pandemic began and everything was shut down. I was making many friends both inside and outside the office before that time, but during and since the lockdowns I just feel like socializing has become so much harder and my days are just blurred together computer screens. I guess at this point I’m an extroverted introvert, whereas most of HN is very introverted or has pre-existing families/friends to socialize with. My company is hybrid at the moment and I’m actually writing this from the very empty office. Things just aren’t the same.
- malandrew 5y ago
  You need social hobbies on the weekend. I just wish weekends were three days so I got two days for hobbies and one day break for rest, errands and other life necessities.
  - 09bjb 5y ago
    Cramming most socializing into whatever bits of free time are left after hobbies seems unlikely to work for most people.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    Living for the weekend is an extremely draining way to live. I fucking hate it. As it stands - I live for 2-3 hours on Sundays if the weather is good because everything is closed and will be closed for another 6 fucking months. It's fucking horrific. I have to spend the rest of my week grinding away at meaningless drivel. Imagine actually spending 40+ hours/week around people and enjoying a significant amount of your interactions.
    - ThunderSizzle 5y ago
      Move to a place where things don't arbitrarily close for 6 months at a time if you don't like that?
asdff 5y ago
It depends on the nature of your work imo. Sometimes you need key tools or infrastructure that cannot physically be in your home, like a mechanic's shop. If you are just working on a computer in an office, however, there's no point to ever coming in just to work on a computer in this particular location vs your home or elsewhere. Internal team meetings seem more productive on zoom than dragging everyone into a conference room in my experience. Use the commuting hours for your own free time instead instead of volunteering them to your employer for free, since in commuting out of pocket, you are subsidizing their costs to bring in the labor they need to their workplace to do their work for their client (note how any contractor will take note of and bill you for travel time, but employees are expected to front it themselves). If you work in something more client facing, you'd probably benefit a lot more from stuff like in person slide decks in front of clients you flew in and are accommodating, and other corporate schmoozing and boozing that is just impossible and awkward on zoom or any other electronic platform.
sam0x17 5y ago
Been remote for 5+ years and I feel more connected with my co-workers than I did when I worked 9-5 in an office.
- ghostbrainalpha 5y ago
  How much of the day are you on video calls?
- merpnderp 5y ago
  This. While in the office we communicated almost entirely over Slack or Discord. Now after being remote 1.5 years, we've never been this productive or happy. If we need to collaborate, it's a million times better to do a Discord video call and screen share, rather than hovering over them at their desk trying to read their screen while they lean away trying to avoid your coffee breath.
jedberg 5y ago
My friend runs a company that is remote first in the way described here. They have employees all over the world, but they all get together at some random place on the planet (pre-covid) about once every two months. The employees love it because of all the free trips around the world (and often tie their vacation to the beginning or end of a meeting so they can explore that place on their own) and it's great for the company because they can hire talent all over the world. It also makes their in person time far more productive because everyone puts effort into planning that time for effectiveness and everyone knows that they only have limited time together and have to make the most of it.
- mrtranscendence 5y ago
  Interesting idea. Every two months seems like it could be prohibitively expensive, though, depending on the org. My company has a yearly event that's mandatory for every employee throughout the country, and a common complaint is just how much it costs to put on. Granted, you could make it cheaper by getting rid of the c-list celebrity MC and free drinks, but renting a space for 1500 people, paying for travel, getting hotel rooms, etc, is all costly. It's been all virtual for the past two years, and I genuinely wonder how much they've saved that way. It's also much more bearable for this introvert ... I despise that stupid event and resent having to attend. :P
  - fernandotakai 5y ago
    i worked at company that is remote first and they did a company retreat every year (as well as team-focused retreats, like engineering, support, C-level). it was a blast -- you got a week of "free" travel w/ your SO (because it was just once a year, they paid for your SO to come with you). i loved it, because it was a time to get together, have some drinks, chitchat and do some super productive work.
    - mrtranscendence 5y ago
      If it was a week long, in a desirable location, and I could take my fiancee, I'd be all for it. But it's 1.5 days, no SOs, and held in a casino in the ass end of bumfuck Indiana. And forget about working -- it's centered around a team-building exercise with people from other parts of the company you probably don't know and will never talk to again.
mjfl 5y ago
I used to work from home at a relatively fast paced job (software engineer / trader for a hedge fund) and it really didn't work for me. I needed the face to face communication of an office setting to work at the pace required. I would also be afraid that working from home would disconnect me from things going on at the company and make me seem less essential, more redundant, more likely to be laid off, which DID happen to a person I know who insisted on remote work. I think the remote life works if you are a specialist hired to hammer your personal nail for a company, over and over again without much change to daily requirements, but I think that is a fragile circumstance.
- alchemism 5y ago
  That sounds somewhat like a toxic culture leaving you with a sense of insecurity more than their position on remote work.
Grimm1 5y ago
Not going back to the office seems pretty split around age lines to me. Most people in their mid thirties and up want to keep WFH full time. Early thirties is a mix, and then all the ways down from there seems like they want to be back in the office. Of course this isn’t a hard rule but continues to be my observation across a few workplaces and from friends and acquaintances.
- mrtranscendence 5y ago
  I'm forty, and for what it's worth I'd be more than happy going back to the office if I had a short commute. But the drive home can take as much as 1.5hrs depending on traffic, and it was a little soul crushing. I've had so much more time since going remote. Maybe younger folks are more likely to live closer to their work? Haven't looked into it at all, though.
  - School-Cotton 5y ago
    I agree with your speculation in the last paragraph — I think this is at least partly due to the age difference. Younger people are more likely to be able to move on a whim and therefore set up their life such that they don’t have a 1.5-hr commute. I’m about a 20 minute commute from the office (Downtown Brooklyn to Astor Place). I can’t fathom living somewhere where I had to drive to work, let alone for longer than an hour.
    - mrtranscendence 5y ago
      The funny thing is that I did this to myself, at least partially. When I switched jobs we looked for places that were in the middle between my fiancee's work and my own. Somehow that turned into a long commute for me and ten minutes for her ...
nzmsv 5y ago
All you need to know about requiring work from an office is this: the people selling the supposed benefits of increased collaboration, creativity, and productivity do not themselves work this way. There is no CEO or VC who spends their entire day sitting in a cubicle, even if they have a token one.
- mgkimsal 5y ago
  Well, their output is measured differently too, so I'd expect their work actions and locations to be different. If the ceo was expected to produce output that was suited to working in a cubicle, they would do that, but that's not how their output is measured.
  - nzmsv 5y ago
    But sitting in a cubicle can be bad for you even if it helps your productivity metrics in the short term.
- downandout 5y ago
  Yes, something tells me Mark Zuckerberg doesn’t spend much time in his cubicle. He also has the peace of mind of knowing that whenever he feels like it, he can have any of a number of places on campus all to himself. So going to work in a cubicle/public space isn’t nearly the same psychological experience for him that it is for regular workers there.
- 01100011 5y ago
  That is worth mentioning, but it is far from 'all you need to know'. My job role is completely different from the CEO of my company, so I wouldn't expect them to work in the same environment I do. If my CEO's job entailed sitting in a cubicle all day I'd find another company to work for.
  - justrudd 5y ago
    Reminds me of a place I worked 7 or 8 years ago? The CEO was big on the “I’m just one of you” trope. They had a cubicle the same as everyone else. They dropped their bag off every morning, had pictures, a couple of plants, etc. But… There was a conference room literally right across from their cubicle that had a recurring 10 hour 5 day a week meeting in it. 2 guesses who that recurring meeting belonged to.
rnd0 5y ago
Well, yes actually.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jstx1 5y ago
My impression from previous discussions is that people like what they like whether it's remote or in office and there isn't a lot of convincing that we can do to each other. Given the above, how do companies move forward? Make some % of your employees unhappy because they're either dragged back into the office or forced to work without one? Hybrid models? They seem like the worst of everything and they don't look like a stable solution. Maybe through quitting everyone reorganises themselves into the type of company they want (remote or in-office) and then everyone is happy? What options do we have here?
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  Remote work is a sink. If even 30% of people are remote everything must adapt to remote-first, and a 70% full office is not really useful, it s like a work during august. So inevitably things will adjust to 98% remote over time. so knowledge based work should prepare for remote-first
- dave78 5y ago
  What's so wrong with letting every employee make their own choice? Then, after 6 months or a year or whatever (to get everyone a chance to get used to it and be confident in their selection), survey everyone to find out who wants to keep working from home. Those that don't - allocate them a desk in an office. Add some additional hoteling desks for travelers or normal WFHers who need to visit, and then adjust the size of your office space to match.
  - jstx1 5y ago
    > What's so wrong with letting every employee make their own choice? You're inevitably forcing your colleagues into your own way of working to some extent. Imagine a team of 6 people working on the same product: If 1 is in office and 5 are remote, then the benefits of the office are largely lost even for the 1 person. That 1 person is still working in a remote model just from a different location which happens to be the office. If 1 is remote and 5 are in office, the 1 person will inevitably miss out on a lot of the ongoing in-person communication. This was a well-known thing before the pandemic - the most common advice was to be remote for entirely remote companies/teams but to avoid being the only remote person on an office-based team. If it's 3-3, then some of the communication is in person and half of the team is missing out on it but all meetings still have to be online. I don't doubt that some companies will do this but it doesn't seem stable in the long run.
harikb 5y ago
> He even imagines a future in which specialized resorts will arise in locations conducive to brainstorming or strategy formation, where teams will work with the help of professional on-site facilitators. While this may be the romanticized optimal work setup, regular people have kids in school and local commitments. This arrangement, sometimes, puts unfair disadvantage to women as well. Of course in a ideal world, both parents don’t have to travel to offsite, but disappearing to a resort for days may not work for everyone
arrosenberg 5y ago
Co-locating with your coworkers isn't a broken way of working, per se, but the majority of our cities are not designed for work/life balance. If the office is a 5 minute walk, I have absolutely no problem going in and staying until the usefulness of being together is exhausted for the day. When the commute is an hour plus in traffic, that's gonna be a no from me dawg. Add on to that the fact that some regions have been major winners the last decade while others are major losers, means that people stuck in "loser" regions may have better remote prospects than local prospects.
- emaginniss 5y ago
  When I had a mostly-remote job, I solved the traffic issue by coming in at 10am and leaving at 3pm on the days I'd visit the office. 2 days of that a week was enough to maintain contact, go to lunch with folks and handle any obligate in-person meetings.
  - joncrane 5y ago
    ...until some folks start scheduling meetings at 9:30 am or 4pm.
the-dude 5y ago
Is WFH the acronym of the year already?
ilaksh 5y ago
My take is that the lack of interaction and socializing is not actually dependant on being in the same physical location day-in-and-day-out. There are a lot of ways that people socialize online. They just aren't built into the remote work culture. There are many startups looking to address this with more social virtual work environments. But really it's a matter of what people do rather than not having tools. For example if there was an always-on video-chat on its own monitor, people could just unmute that. Or something similar but with different locations such as water-cooler A and water-cooler B. For me, having been remote for about ten years or more depending on how you count it, they have mostly been very small startups. And the other people involved actually generally have had other jobs to do. So they just didn't have much time available during the week for socializing. But part of it I feel is a lack of interest in socializing. Which you can say that forcing people to do it by being in the same space is an advantage but maybe another idea is to adopt traditions/culture and software that make it more fun or easier to socialize online. I just wish people would log into the Discord more. But I think the fact they don't do that every day means they are a bit checked out of the project realistically.
pineconebutt 5y ago
The worst part about the office in the United States is the car commute most people have. Besides that, it's not so bad. Socializing and feeling like a true part of a company is much easier when going to work. I like the office and the physical separation between more home and work life it provides. When I get home at the end of the day, I don't want work to be interrupting me. My home life is the priority when I am home.
sealthedeal 5y ago
The future of work is flexibility, it has nothing to do with in office or remote-first. It has everything to do with tech workers, or people who work from a screen having control and autonomy over their lives to decide to work how they would like too. We need to stop choosing one side or the other, its just a balance :).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
redact207 5y ago
Can this ever be answered? Everyone has their own personal circumstance and reasons for wanting to work in the office, home or hybrid. Ultimately employees will choose what suits them and given nowadays a lot of companies offer the choice of remote, will see people shift if that's what they want. Remote will become an accepted and standard way of working, and I hope local communities will benefit and thrive from having a local hub of workers.
daxfohl 5y ago
"Always available" is more broken than going back to office.
filmgirlcw 5y ago
The biggest problem with working from home, especially as it exists in the last 18 months, is that it ruins the entire work/life separation thing. For a long time, large companies like Google and Facebook bribed employees to basically live at work with an influx of perks. Free laundry. Nap rooms. Catered meals. The whole point is for you to never leave so you’ll work more. I think most of us can agree that is unhealthy and not good for the employee. So now we’ve traded that for you work from home, but still don’t get to disconnect from work. So you don’t have the commute or the dress code stuff and potentially fewer meetings, but you’re always on call. You’re expected to work more. Your house is now your office (and plenty of us don’t live in places with room for a wholly isolated workspace, especially if two people are working from home). And you’ve given up the social interaction that makes going into an office really nice for plenty of people. Obviously, ever is a good and healthy way to do remote work. I’m not disputing that. What I will dispute is that the way most companies have optimized for remote work over the last 18 months is the wrong way and I have zero faith that any of the organizations will adjust themselves to do it the right way. So for me, if the choice is to have little work/life balance but at least have more room at my house and social interaction at work — or to literally live and work in the same cramped space without human interaction, I’ll take the office.
- kdamken 5y ago
  I find it interesting that people have this issue. Unless you’re actually on call, can’t you just snooze slack and emails until the next day?
- The_Beta 5y ago
  some people (like me) don't have separation of work/life balance. I get emails 24 hours a day. Markets move every second from sunday evening until friday afternoon. I'm constantly on my phone or in front of my computer. So I would rather do this while sitting in comfortable sweatpants at home rather than wasting 3 hours getting dressed, commuting, etc. to do the exact same thing I would be doing anyway. Plus I get to eat healthier food, save money on food, clean my place more, spend time with family more, go workout when there's a lull in the markets, etc. So while for some work/life balance is better with a separation, for me and many others, work/life balance is drastically improved by not going into the office
swman 5y ago
I'd much rather have quarterly check-ins or some semi-annual company event to attend. Even if I go back to the office, my entire team is geographically distributed. Only a couple people on my team would be in the office, while others are all over the world. So, even though I also miss the office I'm not sure what going back would mean for me now that my team setup is so different. So, have to think about that.
gaoshan 5y ago
I genuinely miss the office. Being in a different space for work (one that was pretty gorgeous), in a nice part of downtown, able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat, more spontaneous collaboration (right before we went remote again I overheard two people discussing an area I have some expertise in and was able to interject and provide useful insight), extra productivity (I do better when I'm around others working, worse when I am alone), the occasional happy hour, the occasional lunch with others, the not horrible drive where I can jam tunes or listen to podcasts and have some time to myself. Not being able to do all of that has brought me lower and lower as the months go by. Made a similar comment on reddit and got downvoted into oblivion but this is really how I feel and it really does impact me negatively. I'm sure I'm not the only one, though it does feel like I might be in the minority.
- xtat 5y ago
  Yes please don't randomly tap people on the shoulder and ask quick questions.
- hansor 5y ago
  Amen! You are not alone. :)
- zmmmmm 5y ago
  I get a lot of what you say but this one drives me bonkers: > able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat My work requires so much focus, having people randomly tap me on the shoulder to ask a question they could just drop in chat is debilitating. I'm curious you phrase "having to ping them over chat" negatively? I would say the same sentence almost totally in reverse: "Now I no longer have to interrupt people to ask them a question, I can just ping them over chat for a reply when they are ready"
  - gaoshan 5y ago
    Our work is very collaborative and being able to get quick feedback on some issue is nice. Having to ping them over chat is annoying because while it may result in a quick answer it may also just disappear into the ether (or the chat app fails to deliver, the person steps away but you don't know this, etc.). Again, our work is collaborative and if someone wants to be left alone they throw on headphones in which case everyone knows to just ping them over chat so they can respond whenever is convenient for them.
_8j50 5y ago
I think like most things, moderation is best. My work makes come to the office twice a week. I didn't like it at first but I adopted, it's nice to get out of the house once in a while and see and be seen by your peers. I am most productive at home but I can be productive in the office as well. I think a lot depends on your home life. I live alone, no close friends, pets,etc...and I am fine most days but I need some social interaction so I won't turn into a complete hermit. I have colleagues with kids and family members at home as well who hate the office for obvious reasons. So long as I get to work from home most days and I don't have to spend the entire day in the office I don't think it's such a big deal. I am grateful to even have the option to work from home at all.
spookybones 5y ago
A coworking space was the solution for me, even before the pandemic.
UweSchmidt 5y ago
Shoutout to everyone who keeps reading about the woes of home office, but has to work in hospitals, factories, warehouses, or drive a truck. I enjoy my home office tremendously, but it's still kinda surreal to me how we can all sit at home with our laptops and that somehow keeps the economy going - as if our jobs hadn't been abstract and hyper-specialized already, now some people don't even leave their bed to work.
- ryanSrich 5y ago
  And yet, the traffic where I live is beyond anything I’ve ever seen. So clearly we’re in the tiniest minority. Most people still have to drive to work, even during a pandemic.
  - Yanster 5y ago
    Traffic in and out of the capital here has reached insane levels too, despite most people with compatible jobs getting a deal with only 2 or 3 days at the office since the crisis. I know quite a few previously using public transportation 5 days a week now driving on "office" days, because they got scared of rush hour crowds. That and/or the lower car costs no longer justify the savings of using public transportation.
    - uxp100 5y ago
      Lower car costs?
KronisLV 5y ago
Personally, i don't miss going to the office in the slightest. Having to get up very early which in practice led to either not getting a lot done the previous evening or being sleep deprived. Having to get dressed a certain way to look presentable. Having to take public transportation for an hour as a commute, which i didn't exactly enjoy. Having to interact with people and attend meetings in a "formal" environment. Having essentially no privacy and feeling like i'm boxed in or judged in some ways. Having to look busy, instead of just being able to get things done and work on whatever that i desire. Being stuck in the dystopian landscape of a large city, sprawling with life, noise and pollution, whereas i'd much prefer my current countryside view instead - just being able to go outside and enjoy some peace and quiet, do some light exercise for a bit without getting weird looks, or just play with my dogs as a break that i wouldn't otherwise take. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are people out there who feel absolutely suffocated by being stuck behind a screen and not being able to collaborate in the physical presence of others. The conversations, with all of their tiny details which get lost in text, voice or even video chats. Building rapport with others and getting to know them better, all of the spontaneous conversations that just don't happen at all. Even overhearing ones like that and learning more about what's going on in the company. And instead being stuck at home, in many situations even with noisy kids or a work environment that simply isn't good for their wellbeing in the longer term! They sometimes even see the days blending together and finding it harder to separate work from their private time. The amount of empathy that i feel for these people is limited due to our personal differences, the same way that they don't necessarily imagine themselves putting themselves in the shoes of someone who hasn't felt one bit of discomfort at working remotely and finds social satisfaction elsewhere (online communities and enjoyment of video essays and such content in my case). The exact same way that for them working in the office just felt very normal and natural, it being their preferred way of getting things done. To me, it feels like those are just two very different types of people, regardless of their other qualities. Neither of us are necessarily better in any way (unless you want to talk about what the majority of humanity is like and therefore which form of work it is better suited for), however those differences are where the problems will begin. Sooner or later, many will want to return to the office, while for others it will be a dealbreaker. In many cases, a particular type of work will be mandated "from above" and many employees will just decide to leave their companies and participate in a globalized economy instead... whilst taking all of their domain knowledge with themselves. A hot job market is probably overall a good thing, but knowing how much documentation and onboarding is lacking within the industry, i fear that there will be quite a few problematic situations to be encountered in the coming decade. I actually summarized these thoughts in a blog post of my own as well: "Remote working and the elephant in the room". Here's a link: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/remote-working-and-the-elephant-in-the-room https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/remote-working-and-the-elep...
willio58 5y ago
As someone who initially missed the office, went back as soon as they offered that option, then promptly stopped going back to the office, what I realized is that I was relying on the office for social interaction. Living with roommates who are also remote is honestly ideal for this. Remote life has given me flexibility I couldn’t imagine sacrificing now for any job.
nkotov 5y ago
I experimented a bit with this with my company. We came down to a hybrid of what we call, 'Work where and when you're most productive'. The office primarily is now used for pair programming + discussions. Focus work seems to get done at home. My dev team on average comes in 2/3 days a week. Works out well for us.
m10y 5y ago
My theory is that office design and expectations are just broken for tech workers. There's no reason (besides profits) that my office can't be just as comfortable as the spare bedroom I do my work in. There is the broader issue of a commute, but divorcing companies from the worst real-estate markets on the planet would help a lot with that. There are three real game changers: - I get to wear more comfortable clothes, and be more comfortable in them. This is a culture problem. - I have a big, private office (bedroom-sized) with windows and comfortable furniture that I can potentially nap on when I need to. - I have a private half-bath that I don't have to transit the whole darn building to visit. Public bathrooms are terribly unpleasant, but I also don't want to have to break my flow by getting caught by a coworker who wants to chat about whatever. If my work office could solve these aspects, I would prefer it over my home office every day.
- Tycho 5y ago
  If you work alone in a private office, you can’t engage in casual banter, which is half the fun of work. Yeah you get good piece and quiet but you can always just throw on some headphones with white noise to drown out the surrounding chatter.
01100011 5y ago
All I can say that hasn't already been said in the dozens of HN discussions already is this: someone better make up their damn minds soon, because living with the uncertainty of knowing what my job situation will be like and where I need to live is stressing me out. Send me back to the office, let me WFH, keep me within an hours drive... whatever... just tell me so I can plan the next couple years of my life accordingly. For me, the uncertainty of the current era is the worst part. Life never offers guarantees, but it is good to at least know where things should be headed.
Jenk 5y ago
Hopefully the death of the always in, or always out, is what is new. I worked remotely, full time, for several years long before the pandemic. Early enough that anytime I told someone I would have to explain all the minutiae that Yes, I am able to get stuff done at home. No, I don't need to "get dressed for the office anyway" and "Yes, we have many video calls per day just to keep in touch" and so on. It was fun for a while, but what made it _really_ fun, was meeting colleagues in cafes and the like all over town for regular catchups and stuff like brainstorms. I was at my peak productivity (of my entire career) when I had the choice to stay at home and maximise my "in the zone" time but also was no further than "tomorrow" from being able to have a meeting with the team. Granted, there are caveats to this - having a decent, work compatible, space at home. I have invested quite a bit in ergonomic furniture at home, and have dedicated a small room to be my work space. I also live in the suburbs of a big city, no more than an hour away from the bustle, collab spaces, and coffee shops. What made me leave was over time the colleagues either moved away or left, to be replaced by people further away, meaning those next-to-impromptu meetings became more and more difficult to have. Eventually I felt like I was missing out on civilisation and threw in the towel for a trendy startup gig in the city again. Then covid hit and I'm back to full time remote and it's starting to suck again.
- twobitshifter 5y ago
  Management at my company just revealed their flex work plan and it’s a total joke. You have the ability to develop a plan with your manager, but you’re expected to work at least 8 hours a day and in be in the office 2/3rds of the time - do the math and you’re over 3 days in the office, which leaves you with a day and a half of “flex” in your schedule - but then you can’t “flex” enough to be under 8 hours. On top of that if you live in another tax jurisdiction you are forbidden from working from home.
dijit 5y ago
I’ll echo a bit what others say. I like the office. A separate space, where I don’t pay for power, where colleagues can drop in on me, where the space is centred on peace and there are subtle conveniences like vending machines. I like it. But I’m not willing to commute 30+ minutes each way of my own time for that. And I’m not willing to sit in one of those battery farm open offices. Being able to control my own audial/visual environment has done wonderful things to my focus, productivity and mood. I’m much less bitter as a person now, I know another person who is also perceptibly less bitter.
- stevage 5y ago
  Well said about being able to control your auditory and visual environment. I used to struggle a lot in office spaces if there were noisy conversations nearby, people pacing about etc. Much better at home in solitude.
alkonaut 5y ago
Collaborating with people who are physically in the same space is not broken. Commuting an hour to do so five days a week is broken. I have been an office worker for 10 years and then fully wfh for nearly another ten. Neither is perfect, but I’d choose 0 days in the office over 5, and I suspect 1-2 days a week or a week per month would be perfect.
zmmmmm 5y ago
My bet is that the future is going to end up with a more distributed / dispersed model : for large companies, small shared office spaces around town where staff can commute most days to a shared office within a few minutes of their home, and can choose work for a day at a central or specific office when it's useful for a project or team. The distinction of "WFH/remote" vs "on site" will blur once home is within a few minutes of work. People will literally walk to the office for a meeting and then walk home again. People who are working from home will pop in to share lunch and then go home again. This is my dream, anyway...
CallMeJim 5y ago
Betteridge's law of headlines: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
innocentoldguy 5y ago
As someone with functional autism, I like working remotely. In my case, working in an office is indeed a broken way to work. For me, the benefits of remote work are: 1. A greater ability to focus and be as productive as possible. 2. Greater control over my schedule. 3. A much better work/life balance. I love being around my wife and kids and don't want or need social interactions with people from work outside of work hours. It is very rare (three times in my 30+ year career) that my work friendships cross over into my personal life. 4. By working remotely, I have been able to recover two hours of my life per day by not commuting. 5. I was able to get rid of one of my cars, since I don't need it for commuting to work. This saves me a ton of money in insurance, repairs, gas, maintenance, etc. It's also my small contribution to the environment. Having been forced to work in an office for most of my career, I can empathize with people who need the type of interpersonal relationships an office provides in order to function their best. I'm sure those people are struggling with remote work the same way I struggled with being in an office. We're all different and have different needs. I doubt a one-size-fits-all approach will ever appeal to everyone, regardless of what it is.
nanis 5y ago
> Is Going to the Office a Broken Way of Working? No, it is not. I recommend trying to understand "The F-Connection: Families, Friends, and Firms and the Organization of Exchange"[1]. Firms consist of humans. Humans need human connections. One frequently finds a new job due to a connection with a friend. And, while you don't have to love everyone you work with, one does develop (or used to develop) friendships at work. Or, on the way to work. Or, during lunch break. When everyone lives in their little pod and only connect with work over video conferencing, their very human connection to other people in their firm weakens. I understand this is appealing to people who are only familiar with living in a bedroom community, hopping on the company bus every morning where they stare at their laptop screens, go to the company campus and not interact with the outside world, and repeat the same trip in the other direction in the evening. Unfortunately for the rest of us, people who just want to live in their own pods seem to have the power to determine our destiny. sigh [1]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972655 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972655
einpoklum 5y ago
The latest corporate fantasy: Let's save money on rent and office equipment and make up some gobbledygook about how it's good for creativity and dynamism or something.
kingludite 5y ago
There is a good bit of factory work where human labor is reduced to quality control. You look at a conveyor belt and wait for the defective product to come along. Machine learning would work but still has issues with calibration. It either has false positives, lets defects pass or it does both. If you aim for plenty of false positives and put a human observer in the system to review the camera footage they too can do their work from home. You wont have to pay western salaries either.
baud147258 5y ago
I personaly prefer to go to the office a few day per week, which is helped by the current arrangement at my workplace where everyone can come the day they want or not at all. Of course living within walking distance of the office sure help, I don't know if I'd say the same thing if it took me 90 minutes to go there. But even then, I think I collaborate better in person, as there's not the friction that seems inherent (to me) to remote collaboration. The office also brings perks that I don't have access to at home, like better internet speed, air conditionning and the coffee machine; on the subject of coffee (and lunch) breaks, going to the office allows to talk with people that I would never talk if I worked remotely full-time; most of those discussions aren't usually work related, but those who are interesting and I learned thing I wouldn't have otherwise. On the other hand, being able to do housework during the day is really good
1970-01-01 5y ago
Does anyone else find New Yorker articles excessively long winded? They always start by telling a backstory, but the backstory begins where it has very little benefit to answering the question.
- 1ark 5y ago
  I guess their journalists are paid per word? A broken way of working.
Valkhyr 5y ago
After almost 2 years working from home, I do miss the office. However, crucially, I do not miss my commute. So unless I could afford to live within easy biking/walking distance of the office, I don't see myself going back.
neonate 5y ago
https://archive.is/XSqM1 https://archive.is/XSqM1
grouphugs 5y ago
let me tell you about a broken way of working i have been programming since i was 14 the first programming job i wanted to get i couldn't because i was not 18 yet so fuck it, we go through trying to do the school thing because of how things are working out school thing did not work out so fuck it, we try to get a job getting a job was met with constant berratement, harassment, gas-lighting, trolling, by dipshits and their taco sauce that honestly i would still like to murder them and their families then you finally get into a job after months of dealing with said above then the real issues start fuck you fuck your country fuck your prisons fuck your borders fuck your presidents fuck your society it's gonna die most of you are going to die with it get over it no one in the future wants this bulslhit
deviation 5y ago
I'm blessed with the ability to live in a somewhat low COL city, and be within a 10 minute walk to work. When WFH first started I was beyond excited. Working in my pyjamas? Hell yeah. Fast forward about 12 months and I began longing for the social interaction, and even just the different visual stimulus of having a large open space to walk around and think in. I don't think there will ever be a true answer to WFH vs. WFO.. But I think opening up that choice to the employee will give numerous benefits to employers in the coming years.
coolguy132435 5y ago
The most productive workday I've ever had was when I met with my company's IT Helpdesk, and chose to work the rest of my day at an empty desk that was available. All the background noise acted as great white noise for me, and I could focus without distraction. As an ADHD'er, although I've gotten accustomed to it in the last year and change, my productivity takes a serious hit working remotely. I'm the only developer on my team in my office, the rest are on the other side of the country, but the benefit of going into the office for me is to have a productive workspace, less so than a collaborative one. I think my need is kinda niche though, and doesn't reflect most people's feelings about working from home.
fartcannon 5y ago
Maybe I'm unique, but I'm perfectly capable of making and maintaining deep connections with people I've never met in real life via channels as small as chat relays. I always assumed anyone who grew up with the internet has the same ability, but perhaps not?
LeicaLatte 5y ago
Is going to the office not a broken way of working?
jseban 5y ago
No it's not, it's only broken because it's become synonymous with open floor plan, which is fundamentally broken and unhealthy.

338 points by sien 5y ago

Yes! I've been wondering if people prefer to work from home. Now I can finally read all your comments to find out!!

My team pre-covid had half the team in New York and half the team in Warsaw. Post-covid, we have 1 person in New York, one in Philly, 2 in California, and 1 in Warsaw. We could've never set up a team like this if we were expected to be together in one office.

Zababa 5y ago

Something that's very important when considering "the office": open spaces. For some people, they are terrible. Going to the office in a private office, in a small office with a few people or in an open space with 20+ people are all very different things for very different kind of people. I personally don't like open offices, especially where there are people behind me.

innocentoldguy 5y ago
I agree! I cannot function in an open office environment. They are too loud, there are too many disgusting odors (e.g. food, body spray/cologne/perfume, body odor, halitosis, etc.), and there is too much movement going on for me to concentrate on anything. I also hate people looking over my shoulder. I'd be more productive working in front of a strobe light in the center ring of a circus with a clown banging his meaty finger into my chest and demanding I name ten fruits.
cgrealy 5y ago
Could not agree more. Open plan offices are death to producitivity. They were fine when you had a massive pool of people doing mechanical bureaucracy but they are terrible for anyone doing anything creative or knowledge based. They are also a major problem with hybrid offices: meetings/conference calls. If everyone is in the office, you find a meeting room... no problem (assuming you can find one). If everyone is remote, you all jump on a call... no problem. When half the team are remote, and multiple teams are remote, you suddenly have way more calls in an open plan office, which is horrific.
cube00 5y ago
I'm starting to realize the same thing. In my case I go to an office to set next to a call center where they're on their phones all day non-stop talking about things that have nothing to do with my work. All my colleagues work in other cities so I either way we're meeting virtually, at least by staying home I don't contribute to the noise level on the floor. If I could come in to a space that just had the people I worked with I'd be more inclined to that. Even if they offered a quieter space to work that might be better but what's the point when I'm already fortunate enough to a quiet space at home. We're currently getting the push to get back into the office now by guilting us that we're killing the local cafes around our building, even though I never purchase take away coffee and bring my lunch from home because I'm cheap.

notacoward 5y ago

I did the "remote with monthly visits" thing for three and a half years. I honestly didn't mind, there were even some things I liked about it, but it sure as heck isn't for everyone. And then there's the carbon-footprint issue. It was bad enough when it was just me, but having everyone do it (as suggested in the article) would be truly awful. If you're going to be remote first, be remote first. That means not only people working from home, but a work flow designed for that environment. Written, asynchronous, open. Not big frequent video calls that replicate in-person meetings, augmented by private calls that fill in the gaps but also create/reinforce clique structures (and exacerbate "Zoom fatigue"). Companies that do true remote first can succeed. Companies that do "remote first" as a poor approximation of in-office presence get the worst of both worlds.

marto1 5y ago

To put it simply: No, working at an office is not intrinsically bad or evil, BUT everything around it is sufficiently broken to the point where people really don’t want to deal with it. This includes commutes, housing, healthcare in some(!) countries, proximity of schools, logistics when raising a family, car dependence, low balling from HR and many many others.

telotortium 5y ago

By Cal Newport

jstx1 5y ago
Who has made a second career out of condescendingly presenting his own opinions as fact.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  His blog has always had great material, but as with many bloggers who branch out, the pressures and incentives to pump out vapid contentless thinkpieces increase with success. Not saying that necessarily applies to TFA, though. But imo it does apply to the somewhat overrated Deep Work.

AlexanderDhoore 5y ago

Yes. And so is working from home. It's all broken.

delaaxe 5y ago
Working is broken?
- codetrotter 5y ago
  The world is broken.
  - wussboy 5y ago
    This is unfair. In an uncaring universe, humans have done quite well. The world was never “fixed” for us to break, and it never will be. The fact most of us live in civil societies of any kind is a miracle or the first order. I get frustrated at this nihilism. A quick trip to any point in the part would reveal how truly lucky we are right now, and would inspire us to drag our sorry species even further from the abyss.
    - WJW 5y ago
      Things can be quite far from "the absolute worst" and still be quite far from perfect, too.
      - waynesonfire 5y ago
        we're not that far from absolute worst. the world is savage. Continuing my rant, it's one of the things I like about Jordan Peterson. His ideas face this fact head-on. He reminds listeners and readers of this and then presents his ideas given this truth. It seems to me that a philosophical idea that doesn't incorporate that as a basis is fundamentally flawed as it's a pretty important detail.
        WJW 5y ago

pmontra 5y ago

IMHO no even if I've been working from home since 2006 when I became self employed. What's broken is having to go to the office every single day. In my experience before and after starting to work from home there is an absolute need to work face to face either to create some bonds between the team members or with a customer or in those rare phases when you have to create something and you need to go full speed with brainstorming sessions, talk to people etc. In those cases a physical presence is much more efficient that remote communications.

notyourwork 5y ago
Our team has started monthly in-person get togethers. We recently went kayaking and had dinner after. Each month we pick someone to plan the next month's activities and use this as a way to bond and realize we are people, not just online aliases. It's worked pretty well now that vaccines and such are readily available and people are becoming more comfortable with in person stuff.
marcusverus 5y ago
Someone is going to pay for that increased efficiency--either your Employer will pay in dollars, or you will pay some opportunity cost. Why should you pay? After all, there are plenty of things that you could do in your spare time that would make you a more efficient employee. But you wouldn't let your employer tell you to work unpaid for an hour each Monday, preparing for the week. Nor would you let them require that you spend an unpaid hour of your free time reading or doing professional development each week. The only difference between those things and commuting is that we've all been conditioned (not in any nefarious way, just by the reality of work in the past) to consider a commute a hard requirement to have a job. But it's not anymore. Your time is a commodity. Why give it away?
- KronisLV 5y ago
  > Nor would you let them require that you spend an unpaid hour of your free time reading or doing professional development each week. Depending on how you look at things, this may or may not be necessary to be done on your own accord in your free time to avoid your skills getting dated and irrelevant. Essentially, you do have to keep up with at least some of the new developments within the industry to remain employable, especially if you don't have any of the FAANG companies on your resume. While your employer might not necessarily expect you to do it, you might have to do that in your own interest, without getting paid for it.

rblion 5y ago

Living in Maui, I have a remote job (my agency/consultancy) and a job doing fun stuff (driving people to Hana, Haleakala OR working on a whalewatching boat). I am setting up residual income streams to save for my own property here. I have a startup/movement I am working on as well, freeing up my time from clients to invest more time and money into it. Balance is the key to fulfillment, to longevity.

OldHand2018 5y ago
You might want to edit that it's a whale watching boat, not a what hunting boat. Unless... Sounds like a great balance you have; good luck saving up for the house!
- merpnderp 5y ago
  If someone is bothered enough about whale hunting to get triggered by someone working a whale boat, they already know there's no whale hunting operations out of Hawaii.

Ancalagon 5y ago

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven months before the pandemic began and everything was shut down. I was making many friends both inside and outside the office before that time, but during and since the lockdowns I just feel like socializing has become so much harder and my days are just blurred together computer screens. I guess at this point I’m an extroverted introvert, whereas most of HN is very introverted or has pre-existing families/friends to socialize with. My company is hybrid at the moment and I’m actually writing this from the very empty office. Things just aren’t the same.

malandrew 5y ago
You need social hobbies on the weekend. I just wish weekends were three days so I got two days for hobbies and one day break for rest, errands and other life necessities.
- 09bjb 5y ago
  Cramming most socializing into whatever bits of free time are left after hobbies seems unlikely to work for most people.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Living for the weekend is an extremely draining way to live. I fucking hate it. As it stands - I live for 2-3 hours on Sundays if the weather is good because everything is closed and will be closed for another 6 fucking months. It's fucking horrific. I have to spend the rest of my week grinding away at meaningless drivel. Imagine actually spending 40+ hours/week around people and enjoying a significant amount of your interactions.
  - ThunderSizzle 5y ago
    Move to a place where things don't arbitrarily close for 6 months at a time if you don't like that?

asdff 5y ago

It depends on the nature of your work imo. Sometimes you need key tools or infrastructure that cannot physically be in your home, like a mechanic's shop. If you are just working on a computer in an office, however, there's no point to ever coming in just to work on a computer in this particular location vs your home or elsewhere. Internal team meetings seem more productive on zoom than dragging everyone into a conference room in my experience. Use the commuting hours for your own free time instead instead of volunteering them to your employer for free, since in commuting out of pocket, you are subsidizing their costs to bring in the labor they need to their workplace to do their work for their client (note how any contractor will take note of and bill you for travel time, but employees are expected to front it themselves). If you work in something more client facing, you'd probably benefit a lot more from stuff like in person slide decks in front of clients you flew in and are accommodating, and other corporate schmoozing and boozing that is just impossible and awkward on zoom or any other electronic platform.

sam0x17 5y ago

Been remote for 5+ years and I feel more connected with my co-workers than I did when I worked 9-5 in an office.

ghostbrainalpha 5y ago
How much of the day are you on video calls?
merpnderp 5y ago
This. While in the office we communicated almost entirely over Slack or Discord. Now after being remote 1.5 years, we've never been this productive or happy. If we need to collaborate, it's a million times better to do a Discord video call and screen share, rather than hovering over them at their desk trying to read their screen while they lean away trying to avoid your coffee breath.

jedberg 5y ago

My friend runs a company that is remote first in the way described here. They have employees all over the world, but they all get together at some random place on the planet (pre-covid) about once every two months. The employees love it because of all the free trips around the world (and often tie their vacation to the beginning or end of a meeting so they can explore that place on their own) and it's great for the company because they can hire talent all over the world. It also makes their in person time far more productive because everyone puts effort into planning that time for effectiveness and everyone knows that they only have limited time together and have to make the most of it.

mrtranscendence 5y ago
Interesting idea. Every two months seems like it could be prohibitively expensive, though, depending on the org. My company has a yearly event that's mandatory for every employee throughout the country, and a common complaint is just how much it costs to put on. Granted, you could make it cheaper by getting rid of the c-list celebrity MC and free drinks, but renting a space for 1500 people, paying for travel, getting hotel rooms, etc, is all costly. It's been all virtual for the past two years, and I genuinely wonder how much they've saved that way. It's also much more bearable for this introvert ... I despise that stupid event and resent having to attend. :P
- fernandotakai 5y ago
  i worked at company that is remote first and they did a company retreat every year (as well as team-focused retreats, like engineering, support, C-level). it was a blast -- you got a week of "free" travel w/ your SO (because it was just once a year, they paid for your SO to come with you). i loved it, because it was a time to get together, have some drinks, chitchat and do some super productive work.
  - mrtranscendence 5y ago
    If it was a week long, in a desirable location, and I could take my fiancee, I'd be all for it. But it's 1.5 days, no SOs, and held in a casino in the ass end of bumfuck Indiana. And forget about working -- it's centered around a team-building exercise with people from other parts of the company you probably don't know and will never talk to again.

mjfl 5y ago

I used to work from home at a relatively fast paced job (software engineer / trader for a hedge fund) and it really didn't work for me. I needed the face to face communication of an office setting to work at the pace required. I would also be afraid that working from home would disconnect me from things going on at the company and make me seem less essential, more redundant, more likely to be laid off, which DID happen to a person I know who insisted on remote work. I think the remote life works if you are a specialist hired to hammer your personal nail for a company, over and over again without much change to daily requirements, but I think that is a fragile circumstance.

alchemism 5y ago
That sounds somewhat like a toxic culture leaving you with a sense of insecurity more than their position on remote work.

Grimm1 5y ago

Not going back to the office seems pretty split around age lines to me. Most people in their mid thirties and up want to keep WFH full time. Early thirties is a mix, and then all the ways down from there seems like they want to be back in the office. Of course this isn’t a hard rule but continues to be my observation across a few workplaces and from friends and acquaintances.

mrtranscendence 5y ago
I'm forty, and for what it's worth I'd be more than happy going back to the office if I had a short commute. But the drive home can take as much as 1.5hrs depending on traffic, and it was a little soul crushing. I've had so much more time since going remote. Maybe younger folks are more likely to live closer to their work? Haven't looked into it at all, though.
- School-Cotton 5y ago
  I agree with your speculation in the last paragraph — I think this is at least partly due to the age difference. Younger people are more likely to be able to move on a whim and therefore set up their life such that they don’t have a 1.5-hr commute. I’m about a 20 minute commute from the office (Downtown Brooklyn to Astor Place). I can’t fathom living somewhere where I had to drive to work, let alone for longer than an hour.
  - mrtranscendence 5y ago
    The funny thing is that I did this to myself, at least partially. When I switched jobs we looked for places that were in the middle between my fiancee's work and my own. Somehow that turned into a long commute for me and ten minutes for her ...

nzmsv 5y ago

All you need to know about requiring work from an office is this: the people selling the supposed benefits of increased collaboration, creativity, and productivity do not themselves work this way. There is no CEO or VC who spends their entire day sitting in a cubicle, even if they have a token one.

mgkimsal 5y ago
Well, their output is measured differently too, so I'd expect their work actions and locations to be different. If the ceo was expected to produce output that was suited to working in a cubicle, they would do that, but that's not how their output is measured.
- nzmsv 5y ago
  But sitting in a cubicle can be bad for you even if it helps your productivity metrics in the short term.
downandout 5y ago
Yes, something tells me Mark Zuckerberg doesn’t spend much time in his cubicle. He also has the peace of mind of knowing that whenever he feels like it, he can have any of a number of places on campus all to himself. So going to work in a cubicle/public space isn’t nearly the same psychological experience for him that it is for regular workers there.
01100011 5y ago
That is worth mentioning, but it is far from 'all you need to know'. My job role is completely different from the CEO of my company, so I wouldn't expect them to work in the same environment I do. If my CEO's job entailed sitting in a cubicle all day I'd find another company to work for.
- justrudd 5y ago
  Reminds me of a place I worked 7 or 8 years ago? The CEO was big on the “I’m just one of you” trope. They had a cubicle the same as everyone else. They dropped their bag off every morning, had pictures, a couple of plants, etc. But… There was a conference room literally right across from their cubicle that had a recurring 10 hour 5 day a week meeting in it. 2 guesses who that recurring meeting belonged to.

rnd0 5y ago

Well, yes actually.

deleted 5y ago

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jstx1 5y ago

My impression from previous discussions is that people like what they like whether it's remote or in office and there isn't a lot of convincing that we can do to each other. Given the above, how do companies move forward? Make some % of your employees unhappy because they're either dragged back into the office or forced to work without one? Hybrid models? They seem like the worst of everything and they don't look like a stable solution. Maybe through quitting everyone reorganises themselves into the type of company they want (remote or in-office) and then everyone is happy? What options do we have here?

cblconfederate 5y ago
Remote work is a sink. If even 30% of people are remote everything must adapt to remote-first, and a 70% full office is not really useful, it s like a work during august. So inevitably things will adjust to 98% remote over time. so knowledge based work should prepare for remote-first
dave78 5y ago
What's so wrong with letting every employee make their own choice? Then, after 6 months or a year or whatever (to get everyone a chance to get used to it and be confident in their selection), survey everyone to find out who wants to keep working from home. Those that don't - allocate them a desk in an office. Add some additional hoteling desks for travelers or normal WFHers who need to visit, and then adjust the size of your office space to match.
- jstx1 5y ago
  > What's so wrong with letting every employee make their own choice? You're inevitably forcing your colleagues into your own way of working to some extent. Imagine a team of 6 people working on the same product: If 1 is in office and 5 are remote, then the benefits of the office are largely lost even for the 1 person. That 1 person is still working in a remote model just from a different location which happens to be the office. If 1 is remote and 5 are in office, the 1 person will inevitably miss out on a lot of the ongoing in-person communication. This was a well-known thing before the pandemic - the most common advice was to be remote for entirely remote companies/teams but to avoid being the only remote person on an office-based team. If it's 3-3, then some of the communication is in person and half of the team is missing out on it but all meetings still have to be online. I don't doubt that some companies will do this but it doesn't seem stable in the long run.

harikb 5y ago

> He even imagines a future in which specialized resorts will arise in locations conducive to brainstorming or strategy formation, where teams will work with the help of professional on-site facilitators. While this may be the romanticized optimal work setup, regular people have kids in school and local commitments. This arrangement, sometimes, puts unfair disadvantage to women as well. Of course in a ideal world, both parents don’t have to travel to offsite, but disappearing to a resort for days may not work for everyone

arrosenberg 5y ago

Co-locating with your coworkers isn't a broken way of working, per se, but the majority of our cities are not designed for work/life balance. If the office is a 5 minute walk, I have absolutely no problem going in and staying until the usefulness of being together is exhausted for the day. When the commute is an hour plus in traffic, that's gonna be a no from me dawg. Add on to that the fact that some regions have been major winners the last decade while others are major losers, means that people stuck in "loser" regions may have better remote prospects than local prospects.

emaginniss 5y ago
When I had a mostly-remote job, I solved the traffic issue by coming in at 10am and leaving at 3pm on the days I'd visit the office. 2 days of that a week was enough to maintain contact, go to lunch with folks and handle any obligate in-person meetings.
- joncrane 5y ago
  ...until some folks start scheduling meetings at 9:30 am or 4pm.

the-dude 5y ago

Is WFH the acronym of the year already?

ilaksh 5y ago

My take is that the lack of interaction and socializing is not actually dependant on being in the same physical location day-in-and-day-out. There are a lot of ways that people socialize online. They just aren't built into the remote work culture. There are many startups looking to address this with more social virtual work environments. But really it's a matter of what people do rather than not having tools. For example if there was an always-on video-chat on its own monitor, people could just unmute that. Or something similar but with different locations such as water-cooler A and water-cooler B. For me, having been remote for about ten years or more depending on how you count it, they have mostly been very small startups. And the other people involved actually generally have had other jobs to do. So they just didn't have much time available during the week for socializing. But part of it I feel is a lack of interest in socializing. Which you can say that forcing people to do it by being in the same space is an advantage but maybe another idea is to adopt traditions/culture and software that make it more fun or easier to socialize online. I just wish people would log into the Discord more. But I think the fact they don't do that every day means they are a bit checked out of the project realistically.

pineconebutt 5y ago

The worst part about the office in the United States is the car commute most people have. Besides that, it's not so bad. Socializing and feeling like a true part of a company is much easier when going to work. I like the office and the physical separation between more home and work life it provides. When I get home at the end of the day, I don't want work to be interrupting me. My home life is the priority when I am home.

sealthedeal 5y ago

The future of work is flexibility, it has nothing to do with in office or remote-first. It has everything to do with tech workers, or people who work from a screen having control and autonomy over their lives to decide to work how they would like too. We need to stop choosing one side or the other, its just a balance :).

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redact207 5y ago

Can this ever be answered? Everyone has their own personal circumstance and reasons for wanting to work in the office, home or hybrid. Ultimately employees will choose what suits them and given nowadays a lot of companies offer the choice of remote, will see people shift if that's what they want. Remote will become an accepted and standard way of working, and I hope local communities will benefit and thrive from having a local hub of workers.

daxfohl 5y ago

"Always available" is more broken than going back to office.

filmgirlcw 5y ago

The biggest problem with working from home, especially as it exists in the last 18 months, is that it ruins the entire work/life separation thing. For a long time, large companies like Google and Facebook bribed employees to basically live at work with an influx of perks. Free laundry. Nap rooms. Catered meals. The whole point is for you to never leave so you’ll work more. I think most of us can agree that is unhealthy and not good for the employee. So now we’ve traded that for you work from home, but still don’t get to disconnect from work. So you don’t have the commute or the dress code stuff and potentially fewer meetings, but you’re always on call. You’re expected to work more. Your house is now your office (and plenty of us don’t live in places with room for a wholly isolated workspace, especially if two people are working from home). And you’ve given up the social interaction that makes going into an office really nice for plenty of people. Obviously, ever is a good and healthy way to do remote work. I’m not disputing that. What I will dispute is that the way most companies have optimized for remote work over the last 18 months is the wrong way and I have zero faith that any of the organizations will adjust themselves to do it the right way. So for me, if the choice is to have little work/life balance but at least have more room at my house and social interaction at work — or to literally live and work in the same cramped space without human interaction, I’ll take the office.

kdamken 5y ago
I find it interesting that people have this issue. Unless you’re actually on call, can’t you just snooze slack and emails until the next day?
The_Beta 5y ago
some people (like me) don't have separation of work/life balance. I get emails 24 hours a day. Markets move every second from sunday evening until friday afternoon. I'm constantly on my phone or in front of my computer. So I would rather do this while sitting in comfortable sweatpants at home rather than wasting 3 hours getting dressed, commuting, etc. to do the exact same thing I would be doing anyway. Plus I get to eat healthier food, save money on food, clean my place more, spend time with family more, go workout when there's a lull in the markets, etc. So while for some work/life balance is better with a separation, for me and many others, work/life balance is drastically improved by not going into the office

swman 5y ago

I'd much rather have quarterly check-ins or some semi-annual company event to attend. Even if I go back to the office, my entire team is geographically distributed. Only a couple people on my team would be in the office, while others are all over the world. So, even though I also miss the office I'm not sure what going back would mean for me now that my team setup is so different. So, have to think about that.

gaoshan 5y ago

I genuinely miss the office. Being in a different space for work (one that was pretty gorgeous), in a nice part of downtown, able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat, more spontaneous collaboration (right before we went remote again I overheard two people discussing an area I have some expertise in and was able to interject and provide useful insight), extra productivity (I do better when I'm around others working, worse when I am alone), the occasional happy hour, the occasional lunch with others, the not horrible drive where I can jam tunes or listen to podcasts and have some time to myself. Not being able to do all of that has brought me lower and lower as the months go by. Made a similar comment on reddit and got downvoted into oblivion but this is really how I feel and it really does impact me negatively. I'm sure I'm not the only one, though it does feel like I might be in the minority.

xtat 5y ago
Yes please don't randomly tap people on the shoulder and ask quick questions.
hansor 5y ago
Amen! You are not alone. :)
zmmmmm 5y ago
I get a lot of what you say but this one drives me bonkers: > able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat My work requires so much focus, having people randomly tap me on the shoulder to ask a question they could just drop in chat is debilitating. I'm curious you phrase "having to ping them over chat" negatively? I would say the same sentence almost totally in reverse: "Now I no longer have to interrupt people to ask them a question, I can just ping them over chat for a reply when they are ready"
- gaoshan 5y ago
  Our work is very collaborative and being able to get quick feedback on some issue is nice. Having to ping them over chat is annoying because while it may result in a quick answer it may also just disappear into the ether (or the chat app fails to deliver, the person steps away but you don't know this, etc.). Again, our work is collaborative and if someone wants to be left alone they throw on headphones in which case everyone knows to just ping them over chat so they can respond whenever is convenient for them.

_8j50 5y ago

I think like most things, moderation is best. My work makes come to the office twice a week. I didn't like it at first but I adopted, it's nice to get out of the house once in a while and see and be seen by your peers. I am most productive at home but I can be productive in the office as well. I think a lot depends on your home life. I live alone, no close friends, pets,etc...and I am fine most days but I need some social interaction so I won't turn into a complete hermit. I have colleagues with kids and family members at home as well who hate the office for obvious reasons. So long as I get to work from home most days and I don't have to spend the entire day in the office I don't think it's such a big deal. I am grateful to even have the option to work from home at all.

spookybones 5y ago

A coworking space was the solution for me, even before the pandemic.

UweSchmidt 5y ago

Shoutout to everyone who keeps reading about the woes of home office, but has to work in hospitals, factories, warehouses, or drive a truck. I enjoy my home office tremendously, but it's still kinda surreal to me how we can all sit at home with our laptops and that somehow keeps the economy going - as if our jobs hadn't been abstract and hyper-specialized already, now some people don't even leave their bed to work.

ryanSrich 5y ago
And yet, the traffic where I live is beyond anything I’ve ever seen. So clearly we’re in the tiniest minority. Most people still have to drive to work, even during a pandemic.
- Yanster 5y ago
  Traffic in and out of the capital here has reached insane levels too, despite most people with compatible jobs getting a deal with only 2 or 3 days at the office since the crisis. I know quite a few previously using public transportation 5 days a week now driving on "office" days, because they got scared of rush hour crowds. That and/or the lower car costs no longer justify the savings of using public transportation.
  - uxp100 5y ago
    Lower car costs?

KronisLV 5y ago

Personally, i don't miss going to the office in the slightest. Having to get up very early which in practice led to either not getting a lot done the previous evening or being sleep deprived. Having to get dressed a certain way to look presentable. Having to take public transportation for an hour as a commute, which i didn't exactly enjoy. Having to interact with people and attend meetings in a "formal" environment. Having essentially no privacy and feeling like i'm boxed in or judged in some ways. Having to look busy, instead of just being able to get things done and work on whatever that i desire. Being stuck in the dystopian landscape of a large city, sprawling with life, noise and pollution, whereas i'd much prefer my current countryside view instead - just being able to go outside and enjoy some peace and quiet, do some light exercise for a bit without getting weird looks, or just play with my dogs as a break that i wouldn't otherwise take. And on the other end of the spectrum, there are people out there who feel absolutely suffocated by being stuck behind a screen and not being able to collaborate in the physical presence of others. The conversations, with all of their tiny details which get lost in text, voice or even video chats. Building rapport with others and getting to know them better, all of the spontaneous conversations that just don't happen at all. Even overhearing ones like that and learning more about what's going on in the company. And instead being stuck at home, in many situations even with noisy kids or a work environment that simply isn't good for their wellbeing in the longer term! They sometimes even see the days blending together and finding it harder to separate work from their private time. The amount of empathy that i feel for these people is limited due to our personal differences, the same way that they don't necessarily imagine themselves putting themselves in the shoes of someone who hasn't felt one bit of discomfort at working remotely and finds social satisfaction elsewhere (online communities and enjoyment of video essays and such content in my case). The exact same way that for them working in the office just felt very normal and natural, it being their preferred way of getting things done. To me, it feels like those are just two very different types of people, regardless of their other qualities. Neither of us are necessarily better in any way (unless you want to talk about what the majority of humanity is like and therefore which form of work it is better suited for), however those differences are where the problems will begin. Sooner or later, many will want to return to the office, while for others it will be a dealbreaker. In many cases, a particular type of work will be mandated "from above" and many employees will just decide to leave their companies and participate in a globalized economy instead... whilst taking all of their domain knowledge with themselves. A hot job market is probably overall a good thing, but knowing how much documentation and onboarding is lacking within the industry, i fear that there will be quite a few problematic situations to be encountered in the coming decade. I actually summarized these thoughts in a blog post of my own as well: "Remote working and the elephant in the room". Here's a link: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/remote-working-and-the-elephant-in-the-room https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/remote-working-and-the-elep...

willio58 5y ago

As someone who initially missed the office, went back as soon as they offered that option, then promptly stopped going back to the office, what I realized is that I was relying on the office for social interaction. Living with roommates who are also remote is honestly ideal for this. Remote life has given me flexibility I couldn’t imagine sacrificing now for any job.

nkotov 5y ago

I experimented a bit with this with my company. We came down to a hybrid of what we call, 'Work where and when you're most productive'. The office primarily is now used for pair programming + discussions. Focus work seems to get done at home. My dev team on average comes in 2/3 days a week. Works out well for us.

m10y 5y ago

My theory is that office design and expectations are just broken for tech workers. There's no reason (besides profits) that my office can't be just as comfortable as the spare bedroom I do my work in. There is the broader issue of a commute, but divorcing companies from the worst real-estate markets on the planet would help a lot with that. There are three real game changers: - I get to wear more comfortable clothes, and be more comfortable in them. This is a culture problem. - I have a big, private office (bedroom-sized) with windows and comfortable furniture that I can potentially nap on when I need to. - I have a private half-bath that I don't have to transit the whole darn building to visit. Public bathrooms are terribly unpleasant, but I also don't want to have to break my flow by getting caught by a coworker who wants to chat about whatever. If my work office could solve these aspects, I would prefer it over my home office every day.

Tycho 5y ago
If you work alone in a private office, you can’t engage in casual banter, which is half the fun of work. Yeah you get good piece and quiet but you can always just throw on some headphones with white noise to drown out the surrounding chatter.

01100011 5y ago

All I can say that hasn't already been said in the dozens of HN discussions already is this: someone better make up their damn minds soon, because living with the uncertainty of knowing what my job situation will be like and where I need to live is stressing me out. Send me back to the office, let me WFH, keep me within an hours drive... whatever... just tell me so I can plan the next couple years of my life accordingly. For me, the uncertainty of the current era is the worst part. Life never offers guarantees, but it is good to at least know where things should be headed.

Jenk 5y ago

Hopefully the death of the always in, or always out, is what is new. I worked remotely, full time, for several years long before the pandemic. Early enough that anytime I told someone I would have to explain all the minutiae that Yes, I am able to get stuff done at home. No, I don't need to "get dressed for the office anyway" and "Yes, we have many video calls per day just to keep in touch" and so on. It was fun for a while, but what made it _really_ fun, was meeting colleagues in cafes and the like all over town for regular catchups and stuff like brainstorms. I was at my peak productivity (of my entire career) when I had the choice to stay at home and maximise my "in the zone" time but also was no further than "tomorrow" from being able to have a meeting with the team. Granted, there are caveats to this - having a decent, work compatible, space at home. I have invested quite a bit in ergonomic furniture at home, and have dedicated a small room to be my work space. I also live in the suburbs of a big city, no more than an hour away from the bustle, collab spaces, and coffee shops. What made me leave was over time the colleagues either moved away or left, to be replaced by people further away, meaning those next-to-impromptu meetings became more and more difficult to have. Eventually I felt like I was missing out on civilisation and threw in the towel for a trendy startup gig in the city again. Then covid hit and I'm back to full time remote and it's starting to suck again.

twobitshifter 5y ago
Management at my company just revealed their flex work plan and it’s a total joke. You have the ability to develop a plan with your manager, but you’re expected to work at least 8 hours a day and in be in the office 2/3rds of the time - do the math and you’re over 3 days in the office, which leaves you with a day and a half of “flex” in your schedule - but then you can’t “flex” enough to be under 8 hours. On top of that if you live in another tax jurisdiction you are forbidden from working from home.

dijit 5y ago

I’ll echo a bit what others say. I like the office. A separate space, where I don’t pay for power, where colleagues can drop in on me, where the space is centred on peace and there are subtle conveniences like vending machines. I like it. But I’m not willing to commute 30+ minutes each way of my own time for that. And I’m not willing to sit in one of those battery farm open offices. Being able to control my own audial/visual environment has done wonderful things to my focus, productivity and mood. I’m much less bitter as a person now, I know another person who is also perceptibly less bitter.

stevage 5y ago
Well said about being able to control your auditory and visual environment. I used to struggle a lot in office spaces if there were noisy conversations nearby, people pacing about etc. Much better at home in solitude.

alkonaut 5y ago

Collaborating with people who are physically in the same space is not broken. Commuting an hour to do so five days a week is broken. I have been an office worker for 10 years and then fully wfh for nearly another ten. Neither is perfect, but I’d choose 0 days in the office over 5, and I suspect 1-2 days a week or a week per month would be perfect.

zmmmmm 5y ago

My bet is that the future is going to end up with a more distributed / dispersed model : for large companies, small shared office spaces around town where staff can commute most days to a shared office within a few minutes of their home, and can choose work for a day at a central or specific office when it's useful for a project or team. The distinction of "WFH/remote" vs "on site" will blur once home is within a few minutes of work. People will literally walk to the office for a meeting and then walk home again. People who are working from home will pop in to share lunch and then go home again. This is my dream, anyway...

CallMeJim 5y ago

Betteridge's law of headlines: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...

innocentoldguy 5y ago

As someone with functional autism, I like working remotely. In my case, working in an office is indeed a broken way to work. For me, the benefits of remote work are: 1. A greater ability to focus and be as productive as possible. 2. Greater control over my schedule. 3. A much better work/life balance. I love being around my wife and kids and don't want or need social interactions with people from work outside of work hours. It is very rare (three times in my 30+ year career) that my work friendships cross over into my personal life. 4. By working remotely, I have been able to recover two hours of my life per day by not commuting. 5. I was able to get rid of one of my cars, since I don't need it for commuting to work. This saves me a ton of money in insurance, repairs, gas, maintenance, etc. It's also my small contribution to the environment. Having been forced to work in an office for most of my career, I can empathize with people who need the type of interpersonal relationships an office provides in order to function their best. I'm sure those people are struggling with remote work the same way I struggled with being in an office. We're all different and have different needs. I doubt a one-size-fits-all approach will ever appeal to everyone, regardless of what it is.

nanis 5y ago

> Is Going to the Office a Broken Way of Working? No, it is not. I recommend trying to understand "The F-Connection: Families, Friends, and Firms and the Organization of Exchange"[1]. Firms consist of humans. Humans need human connections. One frequently finds a new job due to a connection with a friend. And, while you don't have to love everyone you work with, one does develop (or used to develop) friendships at work. Or, on the way to work. Or, during lunch break. When everyone lives in their little pod and only connect with work over video conferencing, their very human connection to other people in their firm weakens. I understand this is appealing to people who are only familiar with living in a bedroom community, hopping on the company bus every morning where they stare at their laptop screens, go to the company campus and not interact with the outside world, and repeat the same trip in the other direction in the evening. Unfortunately for the rest of us, people who just want to live in their own pods seem to have the power to determine our destiny. sigh [1]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972655 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972655

einpoklum 5y ago

The latest corporate fantasy: Let's save money on rent and office equipment and make up some gobbledygook about how it's good for creativity and dynamism or something.

kingludite 5y ago

There is a good bit of factory work where human labor is reduced to quality control. You look at a conveyor belt and wait for the defective product to come along. Machine learning would work but still has issues with calibration. It either has false positives, lets defects pass or it does both. If you aim for plenty of false positives and put a human observer in the system to review the camera footage they too can do their work from home. You wont have to pay western salaries either.

baud147258 5y ago

I personaly prefer to go to the office a few day per week, which is helped by the current arrangement at my workplace where everyone can come the day they want or not at all. Of course living within walking distance of the office sure help, I don't know if I'd say the same thing if it took me 90 minutes to go there. But even then, I think I collaborate better in person, as there's not the friction that seems inherent (to me) to remote collaboration. The office also brings perks that I don't have access to at home, like better internet speed, air conditionning and the coffee machine; on the subject of coffee (and lunch) breaks, going to the office allows to talk with people that I would never talk if I worked remotely full-time; most of those discussions aren't usually work related, but those who are interesting and I learned thing I wouldn't have otherwise. On the other hand, being able to do housework during the day is really good

1970-01-01 5y ago

Does anyone else find New Yorker articles excessively long winded? They always start by telling a backstory, but the backstory begins where it has very little benefit to answering the question.

1ark 5y ago
I guess their journalists are paid per word? A broken way of working.

Valkhyr 5y ago

After almost 2 years working from home, I do miss the office. However, crucially, I do not miss my commute. So unless I could afford to live within easy biking/walking distance of the office, I don't see myself going back.

neonate 5y ago

https://archive.is/XSqM1 https://archive.is/XSqM1

grouphugs 5y ago

let me tell you about a broken way of working i have been programming since i was 14 the first programming job i wanted to get i couldn't because i was not 18 yet so fuck it, we go through trying to do the school thing because of how things are working out school thing did not work out so fuck it, we try to get a job getting a job was met with constant berratement, harassment, gas-lighting, trolling, by dipshits and their taco sauce that honestly i would still like to murder them and their families then you finally get into a job after months of dealing with said above then the real issues start fuck you fuck your country fuck your prisons fuck your borders fuck your presidents fuck your society it's gonna die most of you are going to die with it get over it no one in the future wants this bulslhit

deviation 5y ago

I'm blessed with the ability to live in a somewhat low COL city, and be within a 10 minute walk to work. When WFH first started I was beyond excited. Working in my pyjamas? Hell yeah. Fast forward about 12 months and I began longing for the social interaction, and even just the different visual stimulus of having a large open space to walk around and think in. I don't think there will ever be a true answer to WFH vs. WFO.. But I think opening up that choice to the employee will give numerous benefits to employers in the coming years.

coolguy132435 5y ago

The most productive workday I've ever had was when I met with my company's IT Helpdesk, and chose to work the rest of my day at an empty desk that was available. All the background noise acted as great white noise for me, and I could focus without distraction. As an ADHD'er, although I've gotten accustomed to it in the last year and change, my productivity takes a serious hit working remotely. I'm the only developer on my team in my office, the rest are on the other side of the country, but the benefit of going into the office for me is to have a productive workspace, less so than a collaborative one. I think my need is kinda niche though, and doesn't reflect most people's feelings about working from home.

fartcannon 5y ago

Maybe I'm unique, but I'm perfectly capable of making and maintaining deep connections with people I've never met in real life via channels as small as chat relays. I always assumed anyone who grew up with the internet has the same ability, but perhaps not?

LeicaLatte 5y ago

Is going to the office not a broken way of working?

jseban 5y ago

No it's not, it's only broken because it's become synonymous with open floor plan, which is fundamentally broken and unhealthy.