36 ms·

Windows 11: Just say no

472 points by CrankyBear 5y ago

jbuhbjlnjbn 5y ago
I thought way longer about the subtext to the headline then I'd like to admit...maybe, as a non-native speaker, I'm missing something? But no. It's just mixed up. This fits really well to all the horror stories about date driven software release, like this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28548613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28548613 Even the market leader is apparently doing it wrong.
- marcus0x62 5y ago
  It isn’t mixed up, but it is idiomatic and somewhat provincial. “Just say no” is a reference to an anti-drug campaign from the mid-80s, instantly recognizable to just about anyone from the United States.
  - Zanni 5y ago
    I think they're referring to the subhead, "In a few weeks, Windows 11 will arrive. Should you upgrade to it? Let me answer with a question: 'Should you stop hitting your head against the wall?'" which is not only challenging to parse but (as I read it) contradicts the headline.
    - jbuhbjlnjbn 5y ago
      That's what i meant, thanks.
      - CitrusFruits 5y ago
        (Native U.S. English speaker here) As far as I cant tell, the subtext for that heading/sub-heading pairing would suggest that users currently considering upgrading to Windows 10 are currently doing the equivalent of hitting their heads against a wall, which once again I don't think quite fits the narrative of the article. In my opinion, it's just a poorly chosen subheading.
    - marcus0x62 5y ago
      Ah, that makes sense.
    - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
      I understood it as you should say no to the question whether you should stop hitting your head against the wall.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
pjmlp 5y ago
I have to agree, even though I have plenty of pro-Windows comments. To me Windows 11 feels like Vista, and to everyone that got burned with the rewrites on the WinRT side, just using plain Win32/MFC/Forms/WPF feels liberating. Multiple teams are fighting UI politics over WinUI, MAUI on top of WinUI, React Native with WinUI, and classical UWP is not going away (Windows 11 Store is written in it), then ASP.NET team is pushing Blazor everywhere including on Web Widgets. I will just wait for Windows 12, whenever it comes up, the UI war will be settled by then.
- GnarfGnarf 5y ago
  I migrated from Win32 to Qt two years ago. Never looked back. Much easier to program dialogs & UI. Qt gives you macOS as well. (And UWP if you insist). WinRT is the OS/2 of the 21st century.
  - Sunspark 5y ago
    I have some concerns with Qt. Not the functionality, but the implementation of some of it. My primary concern is that it doesn't respect the OS's anti-aliasing settings. It defaults to making fonts anti-aliased, even if you don't want them to be. Because of this, last year I stopped updating an app using Qt. The higher resolution a display is, the less and less you need anti-aliasing so it's unnecessary in the 4K and up era. Also while I am not on a 4K display, I find AA fonts blurry compared to nice crisp hinted non-AA fonts.
    - mark-r 5y ago
      As you get higher in resolution, I'd expect the difference between AA and non-AA to get less noticeable. Is that not the case?
    - nyanpasu64 5y ago
      What OS and DPI are you on?
    - jhgb 5y ago
      Have you tried Ultimate++, by any chance?
Wavelets 5y ago
Maybe it has better security, but it has worse privacy. Windows 10 is my last MS OS. Heading back to Linux as my daily driver with a System 76 machine.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Got my first Linux machine because of that, partially at least. I like an OS, for which I don't need an account, that just runs on hardware I own.
  - CitrusFruits 5y ago
    Found this out the other day: you can have local only accounts for Windows, although it's pretty hidden nowadays. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/can-i-sign-in-to-windows-without-a-password-a72b85ae-75ae-4cfa-5c7d-186a61fcce92 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/can-i-sign-in-to... (Search in the page "Switch from a Microsoft account to a local account")
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Good call! Too late for me now so, especially since the majority of my Steam library is running just fine under Linux. Maybe for some online stuff, Teams for potential home schooling and so. The fact that local accounts are hidden sucks in itself so. I will keep Windows on my private laptop so, just in case. Not that I am going to upgrade to Win 11 so.
      - scns 5y ago
        Better switch your wifi to metered connection then, like recommended upthread. Prevents automatic updates and being upgraded involuntarily (hopefully).
- autoliteInline 5y ago
  I just fired up a Win10 machine for the first time in some while in order to run specific software. Good gawd. It was finally useful about 4 hours later after all the updates and tomfoolery. Never again.
marktangotango 5y ago
Am I alone in assuming they'll just do the Windows 10 unwanted upgrade, again, when 11 adoption rate isn't where they want it to be? Choice doesn't matter to these mega corps, so long as we use their stores and view their ads. Thank god for Gnu and Linux!
- KeyBoardG 5y ago
  I agree. There is a lot of fear mongering coming out of Microsoft now, like their "we can't promise security upgrades" for people who ISO install on unsupported hardware.
- pndy 5y ago
  That's the most probable scenario and I wouldn't be surprised that in the end they'll lower the requirements for 11 even more. Back then, the marketing tactic of "hurry up, limited-time offer only" was in the use for this free Windows 10 upgrade but people were still able to get the upgrade after the deadline; then, some used the obscure way of getting the upgrade by special offer for people with accessibility issues. > Choice doesn't matter to these mega corps Choice doesn't matter and it's an OK policy to annoy user periodically with options, suggestions, offers, up until it gives up and agrees for something it didn't want in first place but wants to get rid of the annoying notifications or whatever form this harassment takes. The permanent "No, thank you, I'm not interested" doesn't exist in corporate world too - there's only place for "Fine but we will ask you again and again", sadly.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    > then, some used the obscure way of getting the upgrade by special offer for people with accessibility issues. On that note, it was removed, so now the only way I know that works is to do an in-place upgrade via the Windows 10 installation media ('upgrade this pc now') then sign in with a Microsoft account to get your license attached to the MSA, then you can do a full reinstall and keep the license.
- jsperson 5y ago
  They’ll have to be able to figure out where it will run first. Amazing to me that this is still in question.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Allow me to vent: yesterday windows cumulative update wouldn't install. Fine, Google error code "we recommend an in-place upgrade" I have no belief Windows 11 is going to be better just more of the same.
- trivialcode 5y ago
  cmd as admin, sfc /scannow followed by chkdsk /f C: then reboot the PC and try the update again. Works every time for me.
throwawaysea 5y ago
This article seems to be making a point that you shouldn't upgrade to Windows 11 right now, since you might be encounter problems that result from the upgrade. But I have bigger apprehensions about Windows 11 than just that. Windows 11 feels like the culmination of a push to turn Windows into a walled garden service rather than a utilitarian operating system for generic computing devices. Dark patterns like forced logins, pop-ups tips, ads (https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-breaks-windows-11-by-injecting-ads/ https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-breaks-windows-11-b...), a lack of hardware support (https://www.pcgamer.com/how-the-hell-is-microsoft-already-screwing-up-windows-11-this-badly/ https://www.pcgamer.com/how-the-hell-is-microsoft-already-sc...), and so on make me feel like it is time to move on from Windows. At the same time, there isn't a good alternative for everyday use. Although I would consider myself reasonably tech savvy, I can't say I am comfortable enough to use Linux as a daily driver and to trust that I am using it securely, as compared to taking updates with one click from Microsoft or Apple. Maybe my perception is wrong, but we really need better educational resources to teach people and get them comfortable with computing infrastructure (hardware/software/services) from outside the big tech vendors. Leaving that aside, I am not sure what Microsoft's larger strategy is. It feels to me like they're trying to be more like Apple at times. But if that's the case, why would I use Microsoft? Apple is already very good at being Apple and has better software and hardware for such an experience.
- hef19898 5y ago
  I had the same feelings about Linux. Turned out Ubuntu runs just fine on the certified hardware from Lenovo, and personally I trust Ubuntu as much in terms of security updates as I trust MS.
- sunnytimes 5y ago
  try linux mint .. or as already stated Ubuntu .. both are fantastic daily drivers IMO.
- prirai 5y ago
  Using Linux is quite easier these days than ever before. About the usability: One command can update your system as well as all the apps installed. No hassle of shutting down your pc after an update. Limitless comfigurations to make the system your own. I would suggest using a community based distro, ones like Debian, Linux Mint, Fedora, Arch (Slightly hard), KDE Neon, etc. There's a very large community and also well written documentation to support you if you get stuck. Also, help is available most of the time in the terminal itself, no need to go anywhere. There's also the feeling of freedom and that an OS doesn't track you and staying out of the way to give you the most fluid experience acocording to whatever suites you.
shadowgovt 5y ago
Mostly, I'm simply not interested in upgrading because what I have works. I spend so little time thinking about my operating system itself these days that I'm a hard sell on value-add in replacing any aspect of it.
beebeepka 5y ago
I have a couple of almost identical Ryzen 3700x machines. One has an Nvidia card, the other has a radeon 5700. One runs Ubuntu, the other is Manjaro. The Radeon was barely usable for anything vulkan until well into 2020. Even Valve's own Half-Life: Alyx needed a month until it was just as good on Linux It is Q4 2021 now and can't remember the last time I felt the need to boot from my windows SSD. My wife used to be against Linux but even she doesn't want to deal with windows 10 these days. She has noticed how bad the software on her laptop is and agrees our Linux desktops are easier to deal with. I would've completely given up on windows a decade earlier if it wasn't for gaming. What it took was to for MS to scare Gaben. Oh, the irony
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Windows is still superior if you do anything on GPU beyond UI. Linux desktop basically freezes when GPU is at 100% load. It's like Win98/Me and CPU before 2000.
Someone1234 5y ago
Windows 11 is half-baked. But it isn't just half-baked because it was rushed out while ignoring all the feedback (although it absolutely was). It is also half-baked because Microsoft's management has no particular strategy or plan for what they want Windows to be. So Windows 11 just feels like an "and kitchen sink" where someone picked up an iPad, noted down a bunch of random features without rhyme or reason and then told the people below them to shove them into Windows for some reason. Then you step back and realize that very "101" features on Windows are still incomplete like the migration to Settings, Windows Search being objectively worse than the Power Toys Run (let alone Google Desktop Search RIP or FileLocator Pro), and UI elements that haven't been updated since Windows 2K. As cliché as this sounds, Microsoft needs someone with a vision for Windows at the helm, someone they trust enough to go hands off and let them materialize that vision. Regardless of what that vision is, at least then Windows would be a something, rather than a whole host of competing ideas and contradictions i.e. a mess. PS - Ironically the "Windows 11 PC Health Check" app symbolizes Windows 11's problems: Released in a half-complete state, pulled, then re-released as a "Preview" also in a half-complete state. The app to check if you're ready for Windows 11 is a "preview" less than 30 days before the FULL retail release of Windows 11... It is almost too perfect.
- userbinator 5y ago
  and UI elements that haven't been updated since Windows 2K. Also known as "the good part"... Everything else about Windows UI since then has only gotten less usable and more hostile.
  - einpoklum 5y ago
    Took the words out of my mouth. I'd prefer a UI element designed for Windows 2K over most anything designed later (with some, but few, exceptions). I'm not sure I would characterize newer UI as more hostile. Some better adjective might be infantilizing, dumbed-down - for the most part; or there's a dichotomy between the UI for dummies part and arcane, not-well-documented, difficult-to-locate parts. This dichotomy was somewhat less pronounced in the past.
the_solenoid 5y ago
I... have been using win11 on a few machines (gaming and a work/coding computer included) and... it's just a reskin with some long overdue features. The way MS does updates now means no more huge monolithic releases and also means the update is smooth and mostly problem free. It even updates the windows sandbox (which has needed an update for YEARS) which might be worth it by itself.
- SamuelAdams 5y ago
  Just curious, what are 5 new features that you find useful?
jdlyga 5y ago
I would upgrade to Windows 11, but my 5 year old desktop doesn't support it apparently.
- orthecreedence 5y ago
  Just buy a brand new computer and throw your old one in a landfill. Easy!
- RedShift1 5y ago
  A clean install should work though.
svnpenn 5y ago
Honestly, I would have just stayed with Windows 7, if not for Windows Terminal [1]. The Unicode support and ANSI escape code support is a big improvement. However I was not eager to upgrade, as people reported over and over all the privacy and telemetry issues. I have turned off all Windows Updates, and ideally I wont be upgrading Windows for a long, long time. 1. https://github.com/microsoft/terminal https://github.com/microsoft/terminal
- rejectfinite 5y ago
  >I have turned off all Windows Updates You mean you have turned off automatic updates? Or you NEVER run Windows updates? - do not do this. Even on an airgapped machine. Insanity.
  - svnpenn 5y ago
    I turned off automatic updates, and I never run Windows Update. I have heard enough horror stories that I dont need that ever again. There was a Windows Update a few years ago that literally deleted files from the user folder. Fuck that.
- beardyw 5y ago
  Windows 7 was OK.
Causality1 5y ago
You know I used to follow Windows news rabidly. The new features were incredible, I looked forward to every release. Somewhere around the time Microsoft added a lock screen to a desktop computer without going "only joking, haha", I started dreading every update.
- noitpmeder 5y ago
  This seems incredibly out of touch with reality.
- amackera 5y ago
  I'm sorry, what? Why wouldn't you want a Lock Screen? That's a basic security measure, without a lock screen Windows would be a non-starter for any secure enterprise.
  - _Algernon_ 5y ago
    A lock screen without full disk encryption is security by obscurity. Change my mind.
    - vore 5y ago
      Windows can definitely also do full disk encryption via BitLocker...
      - _Algernon_ 5y ago
        It couldn't when a lock screen was introduced in the 90s. Bitlocker being enabled by default is a pretty recent thing.
    - xtracto 5y ago
      It's a different type of security: I leave my email, jira, slack, and other services logged in while I am working. When I step out of my computer I lock my screen to prevent other people in the room from using my account in those services. I am aware that they can grab the hard drive and get whatever crap I've got there, but they cannot login into my email, bank, and other services. That's why the lock screen is useful for me.
darthvoldemort 5y ago
i just upgraded my Windows 7 PC from a 2012 desktop to a modern 2021-level Windows 10 desktop with i7 CPU, 32 GB memory, etc. I honestly can't tell the difference between the two systems. I don't play games which is probably the biggest thing driving upgrades, but for everything that I need to do, which is an advanced use, my 10 year old Windows 7 system was more than good enough. The only reason why I did end up upgrading was because I bought a 10Gbe switch, and the motherboard in my Windows 7 PC didn't support the bus speed required for 10 GBe speeds. I'm pretty sure that it's not worth $1000 just to change my compiles from 30 seconds to 5 seconds so I'm not sure what the compelling reason to upgrade is for the hundreds of millions of other users except a fake Windows 11 upgrade forcing a hardware upgrade.
- muststopmyths 5y ago
  To be completely fair, there were significant upgrades to the networking stack in Windows 8, so you probably got more support for your 10Gbe switch than just the motherboard change. Between 8 and 10, though.. yeah. The only reason to upgrade between those was if you hated 8 (I loved it on tablets/phone, not on desktop). There are many Microsoft-hatred-driven reasons to not upgrade from 7 to 10, but lack of progress in the underlying OS is definitely not one of them. People confuse the shell with the OS all the time (and yeah the shell is atrocious and gets worse every iteration), but it's not the entirety of what makes a Windows version. NB: "shell" here means the thing hosting the UI (including Explorer), not a unix shell.
- thrower123 5y ago
  The biggest difference I noticed in upgrading from a 2011-vintage desktop to a 2020 desktop is that npm and all the JS-heavy compiling and bundling operations were much faster. That's got to be almost entirely CPU-based, because I kept the same SSDs and graphics card when I built the new machine. If it weren't for Gulp and WebPack, I could have kept using that old machine, even for my moderate gaming purposes, until it wore out.
- rasz 5y ago
  Windows 7 lacks 'UP the directory structure' button in the explorer :)
rishav_sharan 5y ago
For me, the lack of a "Never combine" option for the taskbar has made win11 unusable for me. I have already reverted back to 10 and will not be updating again till this option is made available again. Its a huge productivity hit for people who are used to multitaking between dozens of open windows
- zamadatix 5y ago
  Never combine, drag files onto taskbar items to open window, clocks on secondary monitors, taskbar in positions other than the bottom, small taskbar, option to always show all tray icons instead of having to set it per app, right click not having most of the options unless you right click the start button. A lot of the functionally focused options are gone. Not that it's 100% bad. Ability to fully disable the show desktop region at the end of the taskbar, the combined volume/network/quick settings icon region, the general redo of the popout for quick settings, the search not being larger than everything else in the taskbar by default, the notification region merging with the clock region, and the general styling update are good. It's just heavily outweighed by the bad... and the broken. The still broken even though they rewrote the whole thing including things like the new menus often getting stuck open even when you click away from them, auto-hide taskbar on secondary monitors still having issues popping up, the start menu always opening on the primary monitor when you press the win key even when you're active in another monitor, the new "Chat" Teams client that integrates with the taskbar still not supporting corporate accounts, sudden rapid fire 1 by 1 bursts of notifications about the emails I've gotten and already responded to in the last hour despite focus assist being disabled, and I'm sure more I can't think at the moment. Also the dislikable additions which are of course preference based but I think most people will find things that received a lot of effort like widgets and chat useless. . All that being said it's still livable for me but it is a definite downgrade and a bit disappointing.
- Ronson 5y ago
  No "Never Combine"? :( Tell me it isn't so. I can't remember when that combine thing was added but the first thing I do is get that binned straight away. I haven't used it long enough to even understand how it works.
- 5y ago
jcranberry 5y ago
Ive been using win 11 on my laptop for a couple months now. I like the new UI, it feels simpler and less gaudy. The drop down menu expansion thing is fine. I also prefer the redesign of the settings app. I find casting my screen and bluetooth works better. Windows has been missing something decent window snapping features forever and although it's a bit clunky I appreciate that it's there. The only thing that has annoys me is the taskbar not disappearing when its supposed to, leading to it covering the bottom of maximized applications. Most of the time its not there but sometimes it'll just stick after coming up. I didn't know about the android apps feature but I might give it a shot when I go home. Widgets I just haven't used at all despite being aware of them. I still have win10 on my desktop. I don't remember the switch being painful when I went to the rolling release windows insider on my laptop. Frankly win10 is fine too, so unless there's an android app I want to play around with I wouldn't bother switching.
- Bilal_io 5y ago
  "Windows has been missing something decent window snapping features forever and although it's a bit clunky I appreciate that it's there." I've been using windows 11 for a few months as well. For window snapping, I simply enjoy Powertoys and will stick to that since it gives me more customization options.
- tssva 5y ago
  I also have the issue with the taskbar sometimes not disappearing but I've had the same issue on Windows 10, various Linux DEs and macOS. It must for some reason be a more difficult problem than it would seem. The biggest issue I have with Windows 11 is that the taskbar can't be moved from the bottom without a registry hack. I find the biggest UI improvement to be in the file manager. I also find the whole thing to be a little better performing than Windows 10.
  - gobookdev 5y ago
    Exact same for me, gave Windows 11 a try, really liked all the new features, only downgrade is not being able to put the taskbar on the side of the screen. Arch Linux will always be my daily, but I think they've done a good iteration, other comments probably haven't actually tried it.
olah_1 5y ago
Proton[1] is the reason my next machine will be Linux. [1]: https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
- seph-reed 5y ago
  Yup. I've been running EOS (https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/). It's almost as pretty as my MBP, and vastly more usable than Windows. And I have everything I really need (with first class Linux support): * Gaming - Steam + Proton * Digital Audio Workstation - Bitwig * Video Editing - DaVinci Resolve * 3d Modeling - Blender * 2d Image - Gimp (this one could be a lot better) ----- The only thing I can imagine dual booting into Windows for is Oculus Link. But I don't really think it's worth it.
  - liquidify 5y ago
    How does bitwig do with multi channel audio? I need 32 in and 32 out. I have Merging and RME available as audio devices, but I don't suspect that either of them would actually work with multi-channel recording, despite both of them offering drivers. If someone could guarantee rock solid stability, I *might be willing to switch, even though I'm fairly invested in the Ableton / VST world. 10 years of projects will likely force me to always run mac / windows unless Ableton decides to build for linux in the future. Who knows, maybe ARM will force their hand.
    - seph-reed 5y ago
      If you've got a tool you're used to, it's probably best to stick to it. That being said, Bitwig does support Jack, so routing should be pretty open ended. And there's this linux project (https://pipewire.org/ https://pipewire.org/) that's been doing really, really well. It (sorta) combines all the different audio servers into one.
      - scns 5y ago
        Even though i gave suggestions how to try out Linux, i would rate this higher. Stick to your guns, never change a running system/winning team. There is an amazing (IMSO) producer duo, highly recommend their liveset from Glastonbury, called Booka Shade. They produced a chart topping pop act on PowerMacs (G4 IIRC), which were allready ancient back then.
127 5y ago
Installed Manjaro on my HP laptop instead of Windows and the hardware actually works better with less issues.
slaymaker1907 5y ago
I really feel like these system requirements came from top down. I work on SQL Server from home and the machine I use to connect to my work machine is not even close to meeting the Windows 11 requirements despite being a solid machine. It has a 2014 processor that still does great and the GPU is a 1080. The only parts that really need an upgrade in my opinion is the RAM (since it only has 16GB).
jl6 5y ago
Why would anyone want to upgrade to Windows 11 on release day? Surely it’s better to wait a couple of years for the worst bugs to be shaken out. What new features are worth putting yourself through version .0 pain? As far as I can tell, the only reason to upgrade to a new version of Windows is because the old version has stopped getting security updates.
bananabiscuit 5y ago
What if they lock the next version of DirectX behind Windows 11?
- aseipp 5y ago
  That's how it's worked forever, basically; Windows 10 was the minimum requirement for DX12 and Vista with DX11 before that, with 6-7 year time gaps. The APIs also evolved slowly and incrementally with features between those years, but I don't think all of them were available in every operating system. DirectStorage for instance (allowing P2P DMA between your GPU and SSD) is only going to be available in Windows 11 apparently. So when/if they release DirectX13, yes, it will surely be Windows 11 only. Speaking from personal PC gaming experience though, I don't expect this to be some major blocker, based on my experience with DirectX12 uptake in games today 5-6 years after it was introduced (it's not high outside of AAA titles, and all of them have fallbacks/alt renderers.) Not to mention the fact Windows 11 will only work on very recent hardware, so you might as well just target the "old" APIs for a good while and have a vastly larger userbase. I don't plan on upgrading for a bit and I don't think I'll miss much, game-wise, in the mean time.
  - pitterpatter 5y ago
    >DirectStorage for instance (allowing P2P DMA between your GPU and SSD) is only going to be available in Windows 11 apparently. Pretty sure they backtracked on that. "As such, games built against the DirectStorage SDK will be compatible with Windows 10, version 1909 and up" https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directstorage-developer-preview-now-available/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directstorage-develop...
- phone8675309 5y ago
  Then people will probably spend time trying to get the Wine/Proton implementation of that version of DirectX running on Windows 10. Windows 11 is going over like a lead balloon in the enthusiast gaming community, so the will is there.
  - 5y ago
drKarl 5y ago
The elders of the tribe know you always have to skip one version of Windows every two. They publish a good version followed by a bad one.
contingencies 5y ago
2022 - year of the Linux desktop
- theduder99 5y ago
  I made a similar joke in front of some coworkers recently and nobody got it. Reminds me how small some of the bubbles we live in are.
- SkyMarshal 5y ago
  The year of the Linux desktop is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.
partiallypro 5y ago
I have been using Windows 11 as a daily driver and don't really understand people's hostility towards it. It is definitely an upgrade over Windows 10. Comparing it to Vista is nonsensical. I don't agree with a few decisions (like making centering the menu a default?) but most are easily fixed. I would like to see them delay it to fix some problems, but it's possible those will already be fleshed out by launch.
- babypuncher 5y ago
  People just don't like change. There will be lots of weeping and wailing an gnashing of teeth, then people will grow accustomed to it. Same happened with 8 and 10. The furor over 8's missing start menu was intense, even though it takes literally seconds to install Classic Shell and get a better start menu than Windows 7 ever had. In 3-4 years the cycle will repeat again with Windows 12.
  - tartoran 5y ago
    Why change something that you already are familiar with and already sunk time to master your own workflow on? Let that be people’s decision, not get it forced down their throats. Windows has been taking control from the users, became agressive with telemetry, inability to control when you want to apply upgrades, lost work on sessions due to automatic upgrades, removed settings after upgrade, interminable waits after upgrde when you really need the computer urgently to do something on and a lot of other things moved about back and forth because Microsoft couldn’t take their time and make a sound decision and stick with it.
    - guardian5x 5y ago
      There are often reasons to change, and sometimes reasons to keep things. A lot of it is subjective.
      - wruza 5y ago
        Since when “subjective” became “irrelevant”? You love how your home is built and you’ve done much to make its rooms and areas comfortable and useful. You know it from the roof to the basement. “Nah, a lot of it is subjective”, says the Home Redesign Standarten Führer and rebuilds it from scratch every few years, throwing out “this unnecessary, that obsolete” furniture and appliances. “There are often reasons to change, sir, and sometimes reasons to keep things”, mentions he, looking at you insightfully in his black uniform, while you’re trying to cope with the irreversible damage.
toss1 5y ago
Taskbar can no longer be moved. That single "improvement" will keep me away for as long as possible. It's the first thing I change when setting up a new Windows environment, and have done it for over a decade. I'm enough not alone that I've seen in mentioned in multiple articles. MS makes all kinds of noise about "reworking the UI from the ground up for true usability" or some such. Yet I have no idea what could possibly be the benefit to removing such functionality. MS says they listen, but obviously not. Sheesh, another Windows 8 debacle coming at us.
- slategruen 5y ago
  Is there any logical explanation on why they did this?
  - toss1 5y ago
    I wish I knew. I literally cannot think of any rationale. It isn't like they have any concern about efficient or lightweight code so are stripping out features for that reason (and I know from conversation w/their lead developers decades ago that they have not had any interest in any such optimization for at least that long). I don't see how it confuses anyone, since it requires no action or knowledge to just leave it in the default position - I've encountered a few people who are surprised to see that it can be moved, so it isn't like the capability will cause problems. If they're concerned that someone might accidentally drag it and be surprised, then leave only the buried radio-button position control to select bottom/top/left/right. Seems like under-talented developers and product managers who can't think of anything that is actually creative and an improvement, so they just vandalize it to leave their mark. It is utterly baffling
ineedasername 5y ago
I'm reluctant purely on the basis of MS's track record of every second version since Win '98 being crap: Win 98: good Win ME: bad Win XP: good Win Vista: bad Win 7: good Win 8: bad Win 9... well, #8 was so bad they had to skip a number Win 10: good Win 11: I'm not optimistic. 20+ years predict for badness. I'll wait until either 1) proven wrong or 2) Win 10 is EOL'ed. I just upgraded, but if I need a new system & it comes with Win 11 then I'll just wipe it out and install 10.
- gruez 5y ago
  What about windows 2000, which was also considered "good"? As for windows 10 being good, I'm not so sure. It might be good now, but it was also panned on release and received 12 major updates.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    Windows 2000 was not a consumer edition of Windows. I also didn't list server versions either. Up until Vista I don't recall any truly awful NT versions. As for 10, I liked 7 more. But 10 was still and improvement over 8, so I think the pattern still holds.
- max46 5y ago
  >Win 8: bad >Win 9... well, #8 was so bad they had to skip a number If you know what to install to replace the stupid touchscreen interface with a proper start menu (eg. Stardock Start8) and disable metro ui feature, it's a great OS. You get 3/4 of the modern features of Windows 10 without the downsides (eg. telemetry, no control on updates, keyboard layout management, taskbar freezing, etc.) and an interface that's halfway between 7 and 10. If you don't replace the start menu, I agree it's a dumpster fire and I would never use it.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    I'll agree that, especially with 8.1 and some tweeks, things were much better. But I think the out-of-the-box experience-- what most consumers will be stuck with-- is a better comparison. Because you can change just about anything if you're willing to use 3rd party tools or dig into buried settings, and especially if you're willing to dig around the registry.
Animats 5y ago
Windows - just say no. I bailed out of Windows when Windows 7 reached end of life. Windows 10 has ads, and that's unacceptable.
- gruez 5y ago
  >Windows 10 has ads, and that's unacceptable. just use enterprise/ltsc.
  - phone8675309 5y ago
    Where can I buy a single license for personal use of LTSC?
    - gruez 5y ago
      https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-instructions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst...
      - n8cpdx 5y ago
        Imagine going so far out of your way to buy software from a vendor that clearly has so much disdain for it's users. Gross.
top_post 5y ago
Where is Satya lately? The last few years his face was everywhere, doing some very common sense things that got MS back to being a leading player. What the fuck is with Windows 11? Some common sense judgement could be used here.
- RedComet 5y ago
  I see this claim a lot, but I always ask myself "what, exactly". As far as I can tell, he just happened to get swapped in during the transition away from Windows 8 and the building up of Azure (both happening anyway).
nirav72 5y ago
I've been using win 11 for the past couple of days. Biggest annoying thing is the right click context menu in explorer. First you right click when selecting a file and then have to pick additional options in secondary menu to get to things like 7-zip or any other context registered app. If Microsoft doesn't provide an option to disable it , then I'm staying with win10.
amyjess 5y ago
I'm not touching Windows 11 till someone comes out with a comprehensive shell replacement (i.e. it must replace all of explorer.exe) that re-creates the Windows 98 taskbar experience.
NtGuy25 5y ago
I really like Windows 11. Hyper-V has some MASSIVE updates which noone talks about, as well as stuff like the network stack being rewritten. It's better to view this as a Windows 10 Refresh with alot done behind the scenes and a new UI. Not much of this is talked about though, outside of really niche highly technical circles. There's some false narrative about it which is bizarre.
- Johanx64 5y ago
  Can't think of a single "MASSIVE" update since transition to win7 64bit. It's all fluff for what it is. There basically hasn't been a good reason to upgrade windows other than arbitrary security update cutoffs, and mostly arbitrary caps to max DirectX version you can run. I wouldn't be surprised if it would be a downright downgrade overall performance and responsiviness wise.
- muststopmyths 5y ago
  > as well as stuff like the network stack being rewritten I would be very interested in learning about this. Do you have any references ?
- omegalulw 5y ago
  I would caution against being giddy about rewrites. As an end user, you should always be skeptical of brand new fresh off the factory bugs in rewrites, especially when the rewrite is of something as complex as a network stack.
- lagmos 5y ago
  The ui alone is basically enough for me to not touch it for a while. I dont need any of the new features and there are loads of anti features i tthe ui (rightclick menu, taskbar icons for more than 1 window, changing default apps, etc) I dont understand what's driving these changes, but they seem so use hostile that it puts me off the whole os.
- Someone1234 5y ago
  > Hyper-V has some MASSIVE updates which noone talks about, as well as stuff like the network stack being rewritten Maybe be the change you want to see... Try talking about those things. I've heard nothing about either one, do you have an article or articles? Microsoft hasn't done a very good job communicating the non-UI changes. Insiders have measured performance losses but no significant gains yet. Hard to call people criticizing other things a "false narrative" when there's been near no communication on the things you're bringing up, and they don't mitigate the complaints.
N00bN00b 5y ago
I'd love to say "I would never install windows 11!" But microsoft already decided that for me. I don't have any TPM chips. And I'm definitely not going to upgrade hardware for an OS upgrade that doesn't really add much.
m000 5y ago
If WSL2 is your killer Windows application, then upgrade to Windows 11 whenever you can. WSL2 on Windows 10 suffers from some FS corruption bug [1]. The bug is currently fixed only in Windows 11 Insider Builds. It is uncertain if/when the fix will be backported to WSL2 for Windows 10. But other than that, Windows 11 is mostly Windows 10 with a different shell. So it's not like it will disrupt your workflow or something. [1] https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/5895 https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/5895
- gobookdev 5y ago
  It's cool you don't have to do anything to get it to work now, just install distro and bam!
lisper 5y ago
FTFY: Windows. Just say no.
ModernMech 5y ago
This is just the Windows product lifecycle. - Windows 3.0 crashed all the time, Windows 3.1 was great - Windows 95 and 98 were okay, I don't remember having much of a problem with them. - Windows ME was terrible, Windows XP was great - Windows Vista was terrible, Windows 7 was great - Windows 8 was terrible, Windows 10 is great - Windows 11 will be terrible, but there's always looking forward to Windows 12. If anything I'm heart-warmed that a new generation will get to experience their own Windows ME/Vista/8 debacle. It's a coming of age story every computer kid must experience.
jussij 5y ago
Microsoft told the world Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows, but we now have Windows 11 meaning that earlier idea is dead in the water. Seeing how badly Windows 11 has been received, it looks like Windows 11 is turning into the new Windows Vista. If Microsoft fails to turn around that perception, they'll need a Windows 12 just to hide the smells produced by this release.
oxipital 5y ago
The amount of kvetching and unneeded stress over what is basically a UI overhaul is astounding. If your computer doesn’t run it then it’s moot. If you’re not interested in the UI overhaul don’t install. But neither case requires the amount of wahh that were seeing.
- emerged 5y ago
  Complaining about Windows is one of the few things people have left to agree about. Now why would you want to go and mess that up with your comment?
- stan_rogers 5y ago
  You do realise that a UI overhaul is, for a surprisingly large number of users, essentially bricking the computer, right? And it's not just a UI overhaul; the Home version cannot be used without a Microsoft account.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    "Bricking" refers to something much worse and completely different. Besides pre-release versions having a broken update is fair game in my book, surprised it hasn't happened as often as it used to to be honest.
  - NoPicklez 5y ago
    I think our versions of bricking are a little different
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >If you’re not interested in the UI overhaul don’t install. That won't be an option for the majority, it will install automatically as long as your hardware supports it.
harry8 5y ago
s/11//g And it becomes the call I made over a decade ago. I really haven't regretted it. Literally anything you use will have multiple frustrations you have to get a bit zen about, why pay microsoft for that? Come on in, the water's fine.
DeepYogurt 5y ago
If you're a windows user you don't really have a choice if you care about ongoing support. This really should be "Windows: Just say no".
- zamadatix 5y ago
  One thing Windows does well is support lifecycles. You can still get security updates to the original launch version of Windows 10 until 2025. The current LTSC branch will last until at least 2029. If you want to play by the rules on home edition you still have at least through the end of 2025 to say no and remain supported.
cgijoe 5y ago
Sub-heading: > In a few weeks, Windows 11 will arrive. Should you upgrade to it? Let me answer with a question: "Should you stop hitting your head against the wall?" Well, I mean, yes, I SHOULD stop hitting my head against the wall. So then, you're saying I SHOULD upgrade to Windows 11? I think the author's logic got confused here. Or else the joke just flew clear over my head.
- LdSGSgvupDV 5y ago
  We should stop hitting our heads against the wall. Instead, the wall would automatically hit our heads.
luxuryballs 5y ago
> Why would the company do this? Doesn’t it know it’s going to tick off some of their most loyal users who want an early jump at Windows 11 when those users discover — surprise! — they can't run Windows 11 after all? That makes no sense. … It makes a ton of sense if you are trying to quickly fix all the shit that isn’t working that you don’t know about. Plus you will have certain users actually helping you figure it out.
aaron695 5y ago
Are we still doing this childish we hate Windows crap? I get the baby idea in the early 2000, but hasn't the internet grow up past this yet? Yes, unless it's your job or you enjoy early adoption (which many people do) then you should wait on the curve before upgrading, as you should all technology. Very true in corporate. But tis Windows version, like all Windows updates will improve many things. Windows Vista was pretty amazing. It was also hated. Some of the hate was unavoidable, like making security better. But some wasn't and that was a IT PR failure, which matters. But all previous evidence point to the fact Windows 11 will be good. Was Windows Vista THAT bad? Linus Tech Tips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLgRryt2ZtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLgRryt2ZtE
lucasyvas 5y ago
I can't wait for Windows 11, because it means Windows 10 will become blissfully boring. Security updates, game and driver support probably for years to come.
gtvwill 5y ago
Lol terrible article. Cant wait until the rest of the plebs are forced into 11. 10 can die in the hell hole it came from. 11 feels more akin to the Linux realm I'm used to. Not to mention sweet sweet TPM. Can finally get rid of all the cheating dogs in gaming. Tldr 11 rocks, it's built for business and has mad benefits for gamers.
GolDDranks 5y ago
I was forcibly updated to the Windows 11 developer builds, because I have setup the release channel to get new WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) features early. The UI was a big letdown. I've had my task bar vertically in the left edge of the screen for ages. It makes sense because screens have more width than height. However, in Windows 11 they explicitly "do not support" that.
- nimvlaj30 5y ago
  Jesus, even Mac OS with its similar design supports that
Seb-C 5y ago
I was wondering if the old curse afflicting Microsoft that makes every other version of Windows broadly hated was going to happen again. Given the current amount of criticism, apparently it's happening again.
nso 5y ago
I don't see how it would be a good long term financial strategy to keep asking people to upgrade, and how are those financials looking when there are free upgrade paths? I don't think we need more Windows. It's "good enough" as it is. As was 10. I think we need more doors, ceilings and kitchen sinks What if 11 is it for now, and going forward focus on creating a Windows Store that is filled to the rim with MS-quality software that rivals those of their competitors. What if there was a MS quality Photoshop light for cheap in the Windows store? Or tooling for pretty much anything you can imagine, some for free some with a cost. I say don't focus on the next Windows, focus on making it silly to even consider buying a Mac, or other popular software from other companies. Upgrades to the 11 is of course needed, but we are talking touchups not rewrites. I have been using 11 for a while, and I'm very happy with it. It feels generally more snappy, and a lot of features I ended up not using before because they just didn't work well enough are now polished and I use them every day.
cable2600 5y ago
Just remember the requirements for Windows 11 and know that 90% of the machines out there cannot run it because it needs TPM 2.0 and the latest CPUs to work or even install. I got $2000 saved up for a Windows 11 Pro PC when they come out, my current PC will get Debian and act as a server.
gkkirilov 5y ago
I like it but started dual booting with Ubuntu for better UNIX understanding.
cblconfederate 5y ago
someone should sue microsoft to force them to split windows 7 as a separate company and revive them
otikik 5y ago
Ok I will keep using Windows 7 then.
- Synaesthesia 5y ago
  I tried to use Win 7 recently and I've gotta say, I really prefer 10 in all aspects. It's faster, and still supported and feels more modern.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
The commentary here reminds me a lot of the comments around Windows 10 as it was at a similar stage. And not without merit! Windows 10 did have many issues in the early stages, but got progressively better with updates.
lukaszkups 5y ago
I've updated my Surface Book 2 to Windows 11 by accident (thought that it was just another windows update but next morning I was greet with totally new system :O) It works just nice, but it has the 1 thing that drives me crazy - rounded corners! WTH Microsoft, you could at least has an option to toggle it - I really loved the square UI of Windows 10... :|
cassepipe 5y ago
I finally cracked and installed Linux Mint on my mother's pc after failing to give her proper phone assistance in Windows 10. I was shocked how cluttered it is. For someone like my mother it's very confusing. Why do web searches show up in the menu? Everything seems to be full of confusing effects and the settings remind me of the metro UI, there's almost no options or else you have to follow one of the little links (choose the right one!). I think Microsoft secret plan must be to have everybody switch to Linux. I mean how hard can it to have a menu open, show a search bar and give proper results that you can easily scan visually?
mrjin 5y ago
Has been using Windows, Linux and BSD at the same time for almost two decades now. I use Windows for almost everything, Linux/BSD were really for exploring OS implementations, experiments etc.. Don't really want to mention Windows 9x/ME as I wasn't impressed at all, Windows NT5/2000, then Windows Server 2003/2008 were very stable and those perhaps the best releases of Windows IMO. At the same time, Linux/BSD might be more stable but the usability of the GUI was much worse. Linux/BSD get much better since then, especially Linux, I can almost do everything it need with it now. But Windows well, get much worse. Windows Vista required too much resource and I did not really use it much. Windows 7 was much better than Vista, but really I did not see much improvements from Windows 2000 excepts it looked better. Windows 8 was a step way too far by forcing user to change their habits for decades and also looked much uglier. Windows 10 basically is just Windows 8 adding back those visual elements removed from Windows 7. Worst problems with Windows 10 are not really trying to switching the UI to a new one but really not respecting the users at all and breaking existing functionality while replacements do not work at all. I seriously no idea what was their product managers were thinking by forcing restart to update without asking permission. My colleague's laptop restarted in the middle of a presentation to his boss and a whole bunch of other stakeholders as Windows 10 decided it's time to update and the estimated time to complete was over 2 hours as there were over 200 updates to install... The annoyance I personally found were Disk Manager GUI and diskpart utility broken at the same time; Both traditional GUI and so called modern UI to set IP Address/DNS server were broken at the same time. Have 32 GB of RAM and got BSOD because of out of memory for no reason etc. Almost every update, there would be surprise, not necessarily bad, but you just don't know what's going to work or break each time. Unfortunately there is still something I don't really have a replacement on Linux, or I would have ditched Windows now. If the current trend does not change, I will have to ditch it eventually, only a matter of sooner or later.
fithisux 5y ago
The os landscape is destroyed by devices requiring special drivers. This is why the options are constrained. I definitely do not like osx or Windows. I prefer Linux and Solaris needed more love. But there are newcomers like haiku and genode. The market is very hostile to these efforts.
Cyder 5y ago
It's Vista all over again.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
I just installed Windows Server 2019 on my new laptop, in the hope it gets less telemetry, fluff and UI innovations. At least I can sleep well at night knowing I won't wake up one morning to new Windows 11 on my laptop.
Johnythree 5y ago
After reading all the grumbling here I decided to install Win11. Downloaded the beta iso, burnt a DVD and installed a new SSD. My PC is a few years old and doesn't have a TPM chip, but the RegEdit hack was simple and worked just fine. The install went smoothly and surprisingly quickly. After using Win11 for a day or two, I really like it and soon got used to the UI changes. It seems to be very fast and snappy. My one criticism is the rather clunky right-click menu's in Explorer. Hopefully that will be sorted in the next release. Bottom line, I love Win11 and won't be going back! P.S. have installed every version since Win#1, way back in 1985.

472 points by CrankyBear 5y ago

I thought way longer about the subtext to the headline then I'd like to admit...maybe, as a non-native speaker, I'm missing something? But no. It's just mixed up. This fits really well to all the horror stories about date driven software release, like this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28548613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28548613 Even the market leader is apparently doing it wrong.

marcus0x62 5y ago
It isn’t mixed up, but it is idiomatic and somewhat provincial. “Just say no” is a reference to an anti-drug campaign from the mid-80s, instantly recognizable to just about anyone from the United States.
- Zanni 5y ago
  I think they're referring to the subhead, "In a few weeks, Windows 11 will arrive. Should you upgrade to it? Let me answer with a question: 'Should you stop hitting your head against the wall?'" which is not only challenging to parse but (as I read it) contradicts the headline.
  - jbuhbjlnjbn 5y ago
    That's what i meant, thanks.
    - CitrusFruits 5y ago
      (Native U.S. English speaker here) As far as I cant tell, the subtext for that heading/sub-heading pairing would suggest that users currently considering upgrading to Windows 10 are currently doing the equivalent of hitting their heads against a wall, which once again I don't think quite fits the narrative of the article. In my opinion, it's just a poorly chosen subheading.
  - marcus0x62 5y ago
    Ah, that makes sense.
  - GoblinSlayer 5y ago
    I understood it as you should say no to the question whether you should stop hitting your head against the wall.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

pjmlp 5y ago

I have to agree, even though I have plenty of pro-Windows comments. To me Windows 11 feels like Vista, and to everyone that got burned with the rewrites on the WinRT side, just using plain Win32/MFC/Forms/WPF feels liberating. Multiple teams are fighting UI politics over WinUI, MAUI on top of WinUI, React Native with WinUI, and classical UWP is not going away (Windows 11 Store is written in it), then ASP.NET team is pushing Blazor everywhere including on Web Widgets. I will just wait for Windows 12, whenever it comes up, the UI war will be settled by then.

GnarfGnarf 5y ago
I migrated from Win32 to Qt two years ago. Never looked back. Much easier to program dialogs & UI. Qt gives you macOS as well. (And UWP if you insist). WinRT is the OS/2 of the 21st century.
- Sunspark 5y ago
  I have some concerns with Qt. Not the functionality, but the implementation of some of it. My primary concern is that it doesn't respect the OS's anti-aliasing settings. It defaults to making fonts anti-aliased, even if you don't want them to be. Because of this, last year I stopped updating an app using Qt. The higher resolution a display is, the less and less you need anti-aliasing so it's unnecessary in the 4K and up era. Also while I am not on a 4K display, I find AA fonts blurry compared to nice crisp hinted non-AA fonts.
  - mark-r 5y ago
    As you get higher in resolution, I'd expect the difference between AA and non-AA to get less noticeable. Is that not the case?
  - nyanpasu64 5y ago
    What OS and DPI are you on?
  - jhgb 5y ago
    Have you tried Ultimate++, by any chance?

Wavelets 5y ago

Maybe it has better security, but it has worse privacy. Windows 10 is my last MS OS. Heading back to Linux as my daily driver with a System 76 machine.

hef19898 5y ago
Got my first Linux machine because of that, partially at least. I like an OS, for which I don't need an account, that just runs on hardware I own.
- CitrusFruits 5y ago
  Found this out the other day: you can have local only accounts for Windows, although it's pretty hidden nowadays. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/can-i-sign-in-to-windows-without-a-password-a72b85ae-75ae-4cfa-5c7d-186a61fcce92 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/can-i-sign-in-to... (Search in the page "Switch from a Microsoft account to a local account")
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Good call! Too late for me now so, especially since the majority of my Steam library is running just fine under Linux. Maybe for some online stuff, Teams for potential home schooling and so. The fact that local accounts are hidden sucks in itself so. I will keep Windows on my private laptop so, just in case. Not that I am going to upgrade to Win 11 so.
    - scns 5y ago
      Better switch your wifi to metered connection then, like recommended upthread. Prevents automatic updates and being upgraded involuntarily (hopefully).
autoliteInline 5y ago
I just fired up a Win10 machine for the first time in some while in order to run specific software. Good gawd. It was finally useful about 4 hours later after all the updates and tomfoolery. Never again.

marktangotango 5y ago

Am I alone in assuming they'll just do the Windows 10 unwanted upgrade, again, when 11 adoption rate isn't where they want it to be? Choice doesn't matter to these mega corps, so long as we use their stores and view their ads. Thank god for Gnu and Linux!

KeyBoardG 5y ago
I agree. There is a lot of fear mongering coming out of Microsoft now, like their "we can't promise security upgrades" for people who ISO install on unsupported hardware.
pndy 5y ago
That's the most probable scenario and I wouldn't be surprised that in the end they'll lower the requirements for 11 even more. Back then, the marketing tactic of "hurry up, limited-time offer only" was in the use for this free Windows 10 upgrade but people were still able to get the upgrade after the deadline; then, some used the obscure way of getting the upgrade by special offer for people with accessibility issues. > Choice doesn't matter to these mega corps Choice doesn't matter and it's an OK policy to annoy user periodically with options, suggestions, offers, up until it gives up and agrees for something it didn't want in first place but wants to get rid of the annoying notifications or whatever form this harassment takes. The permanent "No, thank you, I'm not interested" doesn't exist in corporate world too - there's only place for "Fine but we will ask you again and again", sadly.
- judge2020 5y ago
  > then, some used the obscure way of getting the upgrade by special offer for people with accessibility issues. On that note, it was removed, so now the only way I know that works is to do an in-place upgrade via the Windows 10 installation media ('upgrade this pc now') then sign in with a Microsoft account to get your license attached to the MSA, then you can do a full reinstall and keep the license.
jsperson 5y ago
They’ll have to be able to figure out where it will run first. Amazing to me that this is still in question.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Allow me to vent: yesterday windows cumulative update wouldn't install. Fine, Google error code "we recommend an in-place upgrade" I have no belief Windows 11 is going to be better just more of the same.

trivialcode 5y ago
cmd as admin, sfc /scannow followed by chkdsk /f C: then reboot the PC and try the update again. Works every time for me.

throwawaysea 5y ago

This article seems to be making a point that you shouldn't upgrade to Windows 11 right now, since you might be encounter problems that result from the upgrade. But I have bigger apprehensions about Windows 11 than just that. Windows 11 feels like the culmination of a push to turn Windows into a walled garden service rather than a utilitarian operating system for generic computing devices. Dark patterns like forced logins, pop-ups tips, ads (https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-breaks-windows-11-by-injecting-ads/ https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-breaks-windows-11-b...), a lack of hardware support (https://www.pcgamer.com/how-the-hell-is-microsoft-already-screwing-up-windows-11-this-badly/ https://www.pcgamer.com/how-the-hell-is-microsoft-already-sc...), and so on make me feel like it is time to move on from Windows. At the same time, there isn't a good alternative for everyday use. Although I would consider myself reasonably tech savvy, I can't say I am comfortable enough to use Linux as a daily driver and to trust that I am using it securely, as compared to taking updates with one click from Microsoft or Apple. Maybe my perception is wrong, but we really need better educational resources to teach people and get them comfortable with computing infrastructure (hardware/software/services) from outside the big tech vendors. Leaving that aside, I am not sure what Microsoft's larger strategy is. It feels to me like they're trying to be more like Apple at times. But if that's the case, why would I use Microsoft? Apple is already very good at being Apple and has better software and hardware for such an experience.

hef19898 5y ago
I had the same feelings about Linux. Turned out Ubuntu runs just fine on the certified hardware from Lenovo, and personally I trust Ubuntu as much in terms of security updates as I trust MS.
sunnytimes 5y ago
try linux mint .. or as already stated Ubuntu .. both are fantastic daily drivers IMO.
prirai 5y ago
Using Linux is quite easier these days than ever before. About the usability: One command can update your system as well as all the apps installed. No hassle of shutting down your pc after an update. Limitless comfigurations to make the system your own. I would suggest using a community based distro, ones like Debian, Linux Mint, Fedora, Arch (Slightly hard), KDE Neon, etc. There's a very large community and also well written documentation to support you if you get stuck. Also, help is available most of the time in the terminal itself, no need to go anywhere. There's also the feeling of freedom and that an OS doesn't track you and staying out of the way to give you the most fluid experience acocording to whatever suites you.

shadowgovt 5y ago

Mostly, I'm simply not interested in upgrading because what I have works. I spend so little time thinking about my operating system itself these days that I'm a hard sell on value-add in replacing any aspect of it.

beebeepka 5y ago

I have a couple of almost identical Ryzen 3700x machines. One has an Nvidia card, the other has a radeon 5700. One runs Ubuntu, the other is Manjaro. The Radeon was barely usable for anything vulkan until well into 2020. Even Valve's own Half-Life: Alyx needed a month until it was just as good on Linux It is Q4 2021 now and can't remember the last time I felt the need to boot from my windows SSD. My wife used to be against Linux but even she doesn't want to deal with windows 10 these days. She has noticed how bad the software on her laptop is and agrees our Linux desktops are easier to deal with. I would've completely given up on windows a decade earlier if it wasn't for gaming. What it took was to for MS to scare Gaben. Oh, the irony

lostmsu 5y ago
Windows is still superior if you do anything on GPU beyond UI. Linux desktop basically freezes when GPU is at 100% load. It's like Win98/Me and CPU before 2000.

Someone1234 5y ago

Windows 11 is half-baked. But it isn't just half-baked because it was rushed out while ignoring all the feedback (although it absolutely was). It is also half-baked because Microsoft's management has no particular strategy or plan for what they want Windows to be. So Windows 11 just feels like an "and kitchen sink" where someone picked up an iPad, noted down a bunch of random features without rhyme or reason and then told the people below them to shove them into Windows for some reason. Then you step back and realize that very "101" features on Windows are still incomplete like the migration to Settings, Windows Search being objectively worse than the Power Toys Run (let alone Google Desktop Search RIP or FileLocator Pro), and UI elements that haven't been updated since Windows 2K. As cliché as this sounds, Microsoft needs someone with a vision for Windows at the helm, someone they trust enough to go hands off and let them materialize that vision. Regardless of what that vision is, at least then Windows would be a something, rather than a whole host of competing ideas and contradictions i.e. a mess. PS - Ironically the "Windows 11 PC Health Check" app symbolizes Windows 11's problems: Released in a half-complete state, pulled, then re-released as a "Preview" also in a half-complete state. The app to check if you're ready for Windows 11 is a "preview" less than 30 days before the FULL retail release of Windows 11... It is almost too perfect.

userbinator 5y ago
and UI elements that haven't been updated since Windows 2K. Also known as "the good part"... Everything else about Windows UI since then has only gotten less usable and more hostile.
- einpoklum 5y ago
  Took the words out of my mouth. I'd prefer a UI element designed for Windows 2K over most anything designed later (with some, but few, exceptions). I'm not sure I would characterize newer UI as more hostile. Some better adjective might be infantilizing, dumbed-down - for the most part; or there's a dichotomy between the UI for dummies part and arcane, not-well-documented, difficult-to-locate parts. This dichotomy was somewhat less pronounced in the past.

the_solenoid 5y ago

I... have been using win11 on a few machines (gaming and a work/coding computer included) and... it's just a reskin with some long overdue features. The way MS does updates now means no more huge monolithic releases and also means the update is smooth and mostly problem free. It even updates the windows sandbox (which has needed an update for YEARS) which might be worth it by itself.

SamuelAdams 5y ago
Just curious, what are 5 new features that you find useful?

jdlyga 5y ago

I would upgrade to Windows 11, but my 5 year old desktop doesn't support it apparently.

orthecreedence 5y ago
Just buy a brand new computer and throw your old one in a landfill. Easy!
RedShift1 5y ago
A clean install should work though.

svnpenn 5y ago

Honestly, I would have just stayed with Windows 7, if not for Windows Terminal [1]. The Unicode support and ANSI escape code support is a big improvement. However I was not eager to upgrade, as people reported over and over all the privacy and telemetry issues. I have turned off all Windows Updates, and ideally I wont be upgrading Windows for a long, long time. 1. https://github.com/microsoft/terminal https://github.com/microsoft/terminal

rejectfinite 5y ago
>I have turned off all Windows Updates You mean you have turned off automatic updates? Or you NEVER run Windows updates? - do not do this. Even on an airgapped machine. Insanity.
- svnpenn 5y ago
  I turned off automatic updates, and I never run Windows Update. I have heard enough horror stories that I dont need that ever again. There was a Windows Update a few years ago that literally deleted files from the user folder. Fuck that.
beardyw 5y ago
Windows 7 was OK.

Causality1 5y ago

You know I used to follow Windows news rabidly. The new features were incredible, I looked forward to every release. Somewhere around the time Microsoft added a lock screen to a desktop computer without going "only joking, haha", I started dreading every update.

noitpmeder 5y ago
This seems incredibly out of touch with reality.
amackera 5y ago
I'm sorry, what? Why wouldn't you want a Lock Screen? That's a basic security measure, without a lock screen Windows would be a non-starter for any secure enterprise.
- _Algernon_ 5y ago
  A lock screen without full disk encryption is security by obscurity. Change my mind.
  - vore 5y ago
    Windows can definitely also do full disk encryption via BitLocker...
    - _Algernon_ 5y ago
      It couldn't when a lock screen was introduced in the 90s. Bitlocker being enabled by default is a pretty recent thing.
  - xtracto 5y ago
    It's a different type of security: I leave my email, jira, slack, and other services logged in while I am working. When I step out of my computer I lock my screen to prevent other people in the room from using my account in those services. I am aware that they can grab the hard drive and get whatever crap I've got there, but they cannot login into my email, bank, and other services. That's why the lock screen is useful for me.

darthvoldemort 5y ago

i just upgraded my Windows 7 PC from a 2012 desktop to a modern 2021-level Windows 10 desktop with i7 CPU, 32 GB memory, etc. I honestly can't tell the difference between the two systems. I don't play games which is probably the biggest thing driving upgrades, but for everything that I need to do, which is an advanced use, my 10 year old Windows 7 system was more than good enough. The only reason why I did end up upgrading was because I bought a 10Gbe switch, and the motherboard in my Windows 7 PC didn't support the bus speed required for 10 GBe speeds. I'm pretty sure that it's not worth $1000 just to change my compiles from 30 seconds to 5 seconds so I'm not sure what the compelling reason to upgrade is for the hundreds of millions of other users except a fake Windows 11 upgrade forcing a hardware upgrade.

muststopmyths 5y ago
To be completely fair, there were significant upgrades to the networking stack in Windows 8, so you probably got more support for your 10Gbe switch than just the motherboard change. Between 8 and 10, though.. yeah. The only reason to upgrade between those was if you hated 8 (I loved it on tablets/phone, not on desktop). There are many Microsoft-hatred-driven reasons to not upgrade from 7 to 10, but lack of progress in the underlying OS is definitely not one of them. People confuse the shell with the OS all the time (and yeah the shell is atrocious and gets worse every iteration), but it's not the entirety of what makes a Windows version. NB: "shell" here means the thing hosting the UI (including Explorer), not a unix shell.
thrower123 5y ago
The biggest difference I noticed in upgrading from a 2011-vintage desktop to a 2020 desktop is that npm and all the JS-heavy compiling and bundling operations were much faster. That's got to be almost entirely CPU-based, because I kept the same SSDs and graphics card when I built the new machine. If it weren't for Gulp and WebPack, I could have kept using that old machine, even for my moderate gaming purposes, until it wore out.
rasz 5y ago
Windows 7 lacks 'UP the directory structure' button in the explorer :)

rishav_sharan 5y ago

For me, the lack of a "Never combine" option for the taskbar has made win11 unusable for me. I have already reverted back to 10 and will not be updating again till this option is made available again. Its a huge productivity hit for people who are used to multitaking between dozens of open windows

zamadatix 5y ago
Never combine, drag files onto taskbar items to open window, clocks on secondary monitors, taskbar in positions other than the bottom, small taskbar, option to always show all tray icons instead of having to set it per app, right click not having most of the options unless you right click the start button. A lot of the functionally focused options are gone. Not that it's 100% bad. Ability to fully disable the show desktop region at the end of the taskbar, the combined volume/network/quick settings icon region, the general redo of the popout for quick settings, the search not being larger than everything else in the taskbar by default, the notification region merging with the clock region, and the general styling update are good. It's just heavily outweighed by the bad... and the broken. The still broken even though they rewrote the whole thing including things like the new menus often getting stuck open even when you click away from them, auto-hide taskbar on secondary monitors still having issues popping up, the start menu always opening on the primary monitor when you press the win key even when you're active in another monitor, the new "Chat" Teams client that integrates with the taskbar still not supporting corporate accounts, sudden rapid fire 1 by 1 bursts of notifications about the emails I've gotten and already responded to in the last hour despite focus assist being disabled, and I'm sure more I can't think at the moment. Also the dislikable additions which are of course preference based but I think most people will find things that received a lot of effort like widgets and chat useless. . All that being said it's still livable for me but it is a definite downgrade and a bit disappointing.
Ronson 5y ago
No "Never Combine"? :( Tell me it isn't so. I can't remember when that combine thing was added but the first thing I do is get that binned straight away. I haven't used it long enough to even understand how it works.
5y ago

jcranberry 5y ago

Ive been using win 11 on my laptop for a couple months now. I like the new UI, it feels simpler and less gaudy. The drop down menu expansion thing is fine. I also prefer the redesign of the settings app. I find casting my screen and bluetooth works better. Windows has been missing something decent window snapping features forever and although it's a bit clunky I appreciate that it's there. The only thing that has annoys me is the taskbar not disappearing when its supposed to, leading to it covering the bottom of maximized applications. Most of the time its not there but sometimes it'll just stick after coming up. I didn't know about the android apps feature but I might give it a shot when I go home. Widgets I just haven't used at all despite being aware of them. I still have win10 on my desktop. I don't remember the switch being painful when I went to the rolling release windows insider on my laptop. Frankly win10 is fine too, so unless there's an android app I want to play around with I wouldn't bother switching.

Bilal_io 5y ago
"Windows has been missing something decent window snapping features forever and although it's a bit clunky I appreciate that it's there." I've been using windows 11 for a few months as well. For window snapping, I simply enjoy Powertoys and will stick to that since it gives me more customization options.
tssva 5y ago
I also have the issue with the taskbar sometimes not disappearing but I've had the same issue on Windows 10, various Linux DEs and macOS. It must for some reason be a more difficult problem than it would seem. The biggest issue I have with Windows 11 is that the taskbar can't be moved from the bottom without a registry hack. I find the biggest UI improvement to be in the file manager. I also find the whole thing to be a little better performing than Windows 10.
- gobookdev 5y ago
  Exact same for me, gave Windows 11 a try, really liked all the new features, only downgrade is not being able to put the taskbar on the side of the screen. Arch Linux will always be my daily, but I think they've done a good iteration, other comments probably haven't actually tried it.

olah_1 5y ago

Proton[1] is the reason my next machine will be Linux. [1]: https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/

seph-reed 5y ago
Yup. I've been running EOS (https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/). It's almost as pretty as my MBP, and vastly more usable than Windows. And I have everything I really need (with first class Linux support): * Gaming - Steam + Proton * Digital Audio Workstation - Bitwig * Video Editing - DaVinci Resolve * 3d Modeling - Blender * 2d Image - Gimp (this one could be a lot better) ----- The only thing I can imagine dual booting into Windows for is Oculus Link. But I don't really think it's worth it.
- liquidify 5y ago
  How does bitwig do with multi channel audio? I need 32 in and 32 out. I have Merging and RME available as audio devices, but I don't suspect that either of them would actually work with multi-channel recording, despite both of them offering drivers. If someone could guarantee rock solid stability, I *might be willing to switch, even though I'm fairly invested in the Ableton / VST world. 10 years of projects will likely force me to always run mac / windows unless Ableton decides to build for linux in the future. Who knows, maybe ARM will force their hand.
  - seph-reed 5y ago
    If you've got a tool you're used to, it's probably best to stick to it. That being said, Bitwig does support Jack, so routing should be pretty open ended. And there's this linux project (https://pipewire.org/ https://pipewire.org/) that's been doing really, really well. It (sorta) combines all the different audio servers into one.
    - scns 5y ago
      Even though i gave suggestions how to try out Linux, i would rate this higher. Stick to your guns, never change a running system/winning team. There is an amazing (IMSO) producer duo, highly recommend their liveset from Glastonbury, called Booka Shade. They produced a chart topping pop act on PowerMacs (G4 IIRC), which were allready ancient back then.

127 5y ago

Installed Manjaro on my HP laptop instead of Windows and the hardware actually works better with less issues.

slaymaker1907 5y ago

I really feel like these system requirements came from top down. I work on SQL Server from home and the machine I use to connect to my work machine is not even close to meeting the Windows 11 requirements despite being a solid machine. It has a 2014 processor that still does great and the GPU is a 1080. The only parts that really need an upgrade in my opinion is the RAM (since it only has 16GB).

jl6 5y ago

Why would anyone want to upgrade to Windows 11 on release day? Surely it’s better to wait a couple of years for the worst bugs to be shaken out. What new features are worth putting yourself through version .0 pain? As far as I can tell, the only reason to upgrade to a new version of Windows is because the old version has stopped getting security updates.

bananabiscuit 5y ago

What if they lock the next version of DirectX behind Windows 11?

aseipp 5y ago
That's how it's worked forever, basically; Windows 10 was the minimum requirement for DX12 and Vista with DX11 before that, with 6-7 year time gaps. The APIs also evolved slowly and incrementally with features between those years, but I don't think all of them were available in every operating system. DirectStorage for instance (allowing P2P DMA between your GPU and SSD) is only going to be available in Windows 11 apparently. So when/if they release DirectX13, yes, it will surely be Windows 11 only. Speaking from personal PC gaming experience though, I don't expect this to be some major blocker, based on my experience with DirectX12 uptake in games today 5-6 years after it was introduced (it's not high outside of AAA titles, and all of them have fallbacks/alt renderers.) Not to mention the fact Windows 11 will only work on very recent hardware, so you might as well just target the "old" APIs for a good while and have a vastly larger userbase. I don't plan on upgrading for a bit and I don't think I'll miss much, game-wise, in the mean time.
- pitterpatter 5y ago
  >DirectStorage for instance (allowing P2P DMA between your GPU and SSD) is only going to be available in Windows 11 apparently. Pretty sure they backtracked on that. "As such, games built against the DirectStorage SDK will be compatible with Windows 10, version 1909 and up" https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directstorage-developer-preview-now-available/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directstorage-develop...
phone8675309 5y ago
Then people will probably spend time trying to get the Wine/Proton implementation of that version of DirectX running on Windows 10. Windows 11 is going over like a lead balloon in the enthusiast gaming community, so the will is there.
- 5y ago

drKarl 5y ago

The elders of the tribe know you always have to skip one version of Windows every two. They publish a good version followed by a bad one.

contingencies 5y ago

2022 - year of the Linux desktop

theduder99 5y ago
I made a similar joke in front of some coworkers recently and nobody got it. Reminds me how small some of the bubbles we live in are.
SkyMarshal 5y ago
The year of the Linux desktop is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.

partiallypro 5y ago

I have been using Windows 11 as a daily driver and don't really understand people's hostility towards it. It is definitely an upgrade over Windows 10. Comparing it to Vista is nonsensical. I don't agree with a few decisions (like making centering the menu a default?) but most are easily fixed. I would like to see them delay it to fix some problems, but it's possible those will already be fleshed out by launch.

babypuncher 5y ago
People just don't like change. There will be lots of weeping and wailing an gnashing of teeth, then people will grow accustomed to it. Same happened with 8 and 10. The furor over 8's missing start menu was intense, even though it takes literally seconds to install Classic Shell and get a better start menu than Windows 7 ever had. In 3-4 years the cycle will repeat again with Windows 12.
- tartoran 5y ago
  Why change something that you already are familiar with and already sunk time to master your own workflow on? Let that be people’s decision, not get it forced down their throats. Windows has been taking control from the users, became agressive with telemetry, inability to control when you want to apply upgrades, lost work on sessions due to automatic upgrades, removed settings after upgrade, interminable waits after upgrde when you really need the computer urgently to do something on and a lot of other things moved about back and forth because Microsoft couldn’t take their time and make a sound decision and stick with it.
  - guardian5x 5y ago
    There are often reasons to change, and sometimes reasons to keep things. A lot of it is subjective.
    - wruza 5y ago
      Since when “subjective” became “irrelevant”? You love how your home is built and you’ve done much to make its rooms and areas comfortable and useful. You know it from the roof to the basement. “Nah, a lot of it is subjective”, says the Home Redesign Standarten Führer and rebuilds it from scratch every few years, throwing out “this unnecessary, that obsolete” furniture and appliances. “There are often reasons to change, sir, and sometimes reasons to keep things”, mentions he, looking at you insightfully in his black uniform, while you’re trying to cope with the irreversible damage.

toss1 5y ago

Taskbar can no longer be moved. That single "improvement" will keep me away for as long as possible. It's the first thing I change when setting up a new Windows environment, and have done it for over a decade. I'm enough not alone that I've seen in mentioned in multiple articles. MS makes all kinds of noise about "reworking the UI from the ground up for true usability" or some such. Yet I have no idea what could possibly be the benefit to removing such functionality. MS says they listen, but obviously not. Sheesh, another Windows 8 debacle coming at us.

slategruen 5y ago
Is there any logical explanation on why they did this?
- toss1 5y ago
  I wish I knew. I literally cannot think of any rationale. It isn't like they have any concern about efficient or lightweight code so are stripping out features for that reason (and I know from conversation w/their lead developers decades ago that they have not had any interest in any such optimization for at least that long). I don't see how it confuses anyone, since it requires no action or knowledge to just leave it in the default position - I've encountered a few people who are surprised to see that it can be moved, so it isn't like the capability will cause problems. If they're concerned that someone might accidentally drag it and be surprised, then leave only the buried radio-button position control to select bottom/top/left/right. Seems like under-talented developers and product managers who can't think of anything that is actually creative and an improvement, so they just vandalize it to leave their mark. It is utterly baffling

ineedasername 5y ago

I'm reluctant purely on the basis of MS's track record of every second version since Win '98 being crap: Win 98: good Win ME: bad Win XP: good Win Vista: bad Win 7: good Win 8: bad Win 9... well, #8 was so bad they had to skip a number Win 10: good Win 11: I'm not optimistic. 20+ years predict for badness. I'll wait until either 1) proven wrong or 2) Win 10 is EOL'ed. I just upgraded, but if I need a new system & it comes with Win 11 then I'll just wipe it out and install 10.

gruez 5y ago
What about windows 2000, which was also considered "good"? As for windows 10 being good, I'm not so sure. It might be good now, but it was also panned on release and received 12 major updates.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Windows 2000 was not a consumer edition of Windows. I also didn't list server versions either. Up until Vista I don't recall any truly awful NT versions. As for 10, I liked 7 more. But 10 was still and improvement over 8, so I think the pattern still holds.
max46 5y ago
>Win 8: bad >Win 9... well, #8 was so bad they had to skip a number If you know what to install to replace the stupid touchscreen interface with a proper start menu (eg. Stardock Start8) and disable metro ui feature, it's a great OS. You get 3/4 of the modern features of Windows 10 without the downsides (eg. telemetry, no control on updates, keyboard layout management, taskbar freezing, etc.) and an interface that's halfway between 7 and 10. If you don't replace the start menu, I agree it's a dumpster fire and I would never use it.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  I'll agree that, especially with 8.1 and some tweeks, things were much better. But I think the out-of-the-box experience-- what most consumers will be stuck with-- is a better comparison. Because you can change just about anything if you're willing to use 3rd party tools or dig into buried settings, and especially if you're willing to dig around the registry.

Animats 5y ago

Windows - just say no. I bailed out of Windows when Windows 7 reached end of life. Windows 10 has ads, and that's unacceptable.

gruez 5y ago
>Windows 10 has ads, and that's unacceptable. just use enterprise/ltsc.
- phone8675309 5y ago
  Where can I buy a single license for personal use of LTSC?
  - gruez 5y ago
    https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-instructions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst...
    - n8cpdx 5y ago
      Imagine going so far out of your way to buy software from a vendor that clearly has so much disdain for it's users. Gross.

top_post 5y ago

Where is Satya lately? The last few years his face was everywhere, doing some very common sense things that got MS back to being a leading player. What the fuck is with Windows 11? Some common sense judgement could be used here.

RedComet 5y ago
I see this claim a lot, but I always ask myself "what, exactly". As far as I can tell, he just happened to get swapped in during the transition away from Windows 8 and the building up of Azure (both happening anyway).

nirav72 5y ago

I've been using win 11 for the past couple of days. Biggest annoying thing is the right click context menu in explorer. First you right click when selecting a file and then have to pick additional options in secondary menu to get to things like 7-zip or any other context registered app. If Microsoft doesn't provide an option to disable it , then I'm staying with win10.

amyjess 5y ago

I'm not touching Windows 11 till someone comes out with a comprehensive shell replacement (i.e. it must replace all of explorer.exe) that re-creates the Windows 98 taskbar experience.

NtGuy25 5y ago

I really like Windows 11. Hyper-V has some MASSIVE updates which noone talks about, as well as stuff like the network stack being rewritten. It's better to view this as a Windows 10 Refresh with alot done behind the scenes and a new UI. Not much of this is talked about though, outside of really niche highly technical circles. There's some false narrative about it which is bizarre.

Johanx64 5y ago
Can't think of a single "MASSIVE" update since transition to win7 64bit. It's all fluff for what it is. There basically hasn't been a good reason to upgrade windows other than arbitrary security update cutoffs, and mostly arbitrary caps to max DirectX version you can run. I wouldn't be surprised if it would be a downright downgrade overall performance and responsiviness wise.
muststopmyths 5y ago
> as well as stuff like the network stack being rewritten I would be very interested in learning about this. Do you have any references ?
omegalulw 5y ago
I would caution against being giddy about rewrites. As an end user, you should always be skeptical of brand new fresh off the factory bugs in rewrites, especially when the rewrite is of something as complex as a network stack.
lagmos 5y ago
The ui alone is basically enough for me to not touch it for a while. I dont need any of the new features and there are loads of anti features i tthe ui (rightclick menu, taskbar icons for more than 1 window, changing default apps, etc) I dont understand what's driving these changes, but they seem so use hostile that it puts me off the whole os.
Someone1234 5y ago
> Hyper-V has some MASSIVE updates which noone talks about, as well as stuff like the network stack being rewritten Maybe be the change you want to see... Try talking about those things. I've heard nothing about either one, do you have an article or articles? Microsoft hasn't done a very good job communicating the non-UI changes. Insiders have measured performance losses but no significant gains yet. Hard to call people criticizing other things a "false narrative" when there's been near no communication on the things you're bringing up, and they don't mitigate the complaints.

N00bN00b 5y ago

I'd love to say "I would never install windows 11!" But microsoft already decided that for me. I don't have any TPM chips. And I'm definitely not going to upgrade hardware for an OS upgrade that doesn't really add much.

m000 5y ago

If WSL2 is your killer Windows application, then upgrade to Windows 11 whenever you can. WSL2 on Windows 10 suffers from some FS corruption bug [1]. The bug is currently fixed only in Windows 11 Insider Builds. It is uncertain if/when the fix will be backported to WSL2 for Windows 10. But other than that, Windows 11 is mostly Windows 10 with a different shell. So it's not like it will disrupt your workflow or something. [1] https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/5895 https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/5895

gobookdev 5y ago
It's cool you don't have to do anything to get it to work now, just install distro and bam!

lisper 5y ago

FTFY: Windows. Just say no.

ModernMech 5y ago

This is just the Windows product lifecycle. - Windows 3.0 crashed all the time, Windows 3.1 was great - Windows 95 and 98 were okay, I don't remember having much of a problem with them. - Windows ME was terrible, Windows XP was great - Windows Vista was terrible, Windows 7 was great - Windows 8 was terrible, Windows 10 is great - Windows 11 will be terrible, but there's always looking forward to Windows 12. If anything I'm heart-warmed that a new generation will get to experience their own Windows ME/Vista/8 debacle. It's a coming of age story every computer kid must experience.

jussij 5y ago

Microsoft told the world Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows, but we now have Windows 11 meaning that earlier idea is dead in the water. Seeing how badly Windows 11 has been received, it looks like Windows 11 is turning into the new Windows Vista. If Microsoft fails to turn around that perception, they'll need a Windows 12 just to hide the smells produced by this release.

oxipital 5y ago

The amount of kvetching and unneeded stress over what is basically a UI overhaul is astounding. If your computer doesn’t run it then it’s moot. If you’re not interested in the UI overhaul don’t install. But neither case requires the amount of wahh that were seeing.

emerged 5y ago
Complaining about Windows is one of the few things people have left to agree about. Now why would you want to go and mess that up with your comment?
stan_rogers 5y ago
You do realise that a UI overhaul is, for a surprisingly large number of users, essentially bricking the computer, right? And it's not just a UI overhaul; the Home version cannot be used without a Microsoft account.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  "Bricking" refers to something much worse and completely different. Besides pre-release versions having a broken update is fair game in my book, surprised it hasn't happened as often as it used to to be honest.
- NoPicklez 5y ago
  I think our versions of bricking are a little different
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>If you’re not interested in the UI overhaul don’t install. That won't be an option for the majority, it will install automatically as long as your hardware supports it.

harry8 5y ago

s/11//g And it becomes the call I made over a decade ago. I really haven't regretted it. Literally anything you use will have multiple frustrations you have to get a bit zen about, why pay microsoft for that? Come on in, the water's fine.

DeepYogurt 5y ago

If you're a windows user you don't really have a choice if you care about ongoing support. This really should be "Windows: Just say no".

zamadatix 5y ago
One thing Windows does well is support lifecycles. You can still get security updates to the original launch version of Windows 10 until 2025. The current LTSC branch will last until at least 2029. If you want to play by the rules on home edition you still have at least through the end of 2025 to say no and remain supported.

cgijoe 5y ago

Sub-heading: > In a few weeks, Windows 11 will arrive. Should you upgrade to it? Let me answer with a question: "Should you stop hitting your head against the wall?" Well, I mean, yes, I SHOULD stop hitting my head against the wall. So then, you're saying I SHOULD upgrade to Windows 11? I think the author's logic got confused here. Or else the joke just flew clear over my head.

LdSGSgvupDV 5y ago
We should stop hitting our heads against the wall. Instead, the wall would automatically hit our heads.

luxuryballs 5y ago

> Why would the company do this? Doesn’t it know it’s going to tick off some of their most loyal users who want an early jump at Windows 11 when those users discover — surprise! — they can't run Windows 11 after all? That makes no sense. … It makes a ton of sense if you are trying to quickly fix all the shit that isn’t working that you don’t know about. Plus you will have certain users actually helping you figure it out.

aaron695 5y ago

Are we still doing this childish we hate Windows crap? I get the baby idea in the early 2000, but hasn't the internet grow up past this yet? Yes, unless it's your job or you enjoy early adoption (which many people do) then you should wait on the curve before upgrading, as you should all technology. Very true in corporate. But tis Windows version, like all Windows updates will improve many things. Windows Vista was pretty amazing. It was also hated. Some of the hate was unavoidable, like making security better. But some wasn't and that was a IT PR failure, which matters. But all previous evidence point to the fact Windows 11 will be good. Was Windows Vista THAT bad? Linus Tech Tips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLgRryt2ZtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLgRryt2ZtE

lucasyvas 5y ago

I can't wait for Windows 11, because it means Windows 10 will become blissfully boring. Security updates, game and driver support probably for years to come.

gtvwill 5y ago

Lol terrible article. Cant wait until the rest of the plebs are forced into 11. 10 can die in the hell hole it came from. 11 feels more akin to the Linux realm I'm used to. Not to mention sweet sweet TPM. Can finally get rid of all the cheating dogs in gaming. Tldr 11 rocks, it's built for business and has mad benefits for gamers.

GolDDranks 5y ago

I was forcibly updated to the Windows 11 developer builds, because I have setup the release channel to get new WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) features early. The UI was a big letdown. I've had my task bar vertically in the left edge of the screen for ages. It makes sense because screens have more width than height. However, in Windows 11 they explicitly "do not support" that.

nimvlaj30 5y ago
Jesus, even Mac OS with its similar design supports that

Seb-C 5y ago

I was wondering if the old curse afflicting Microsoft that makes every other version of Windows broadly hated was going to happen again. Given the current amount of criticism, apparently it's happening again.

nso 5y ago

I don't see how it would be a good long term financial strategy to keep asking people to upgrade, and how are those financials looking when there are free upgrade paths? I don't think we need more Windows. It's "good enough" as it is. As was 10. I think we need more doors, ceilings and kitchen sinks What if 11 is it for now, and going forward focus on creating a Windows Store that is filled to the rim with MS-quality software that rivals those of their competitors. What if there was a MS quality Photoshop light for cheap in the Windows store? Or tooling for pretty much anything you can imagine, some for free some with a cost. I say don't focus on the next Windows, focus on making it silly to even consider buying a Mac, or other popular software from other companies. Upgrades to the 11 is of course needed, but we are talking touchups not rewrites. I have been using 11 for a while, and I'm very happy with it. It feels generally more snappy, and a lot of features I ended up not using before because they just didn't work well enough are now polished and I use them every day.

cable2600 5y ago

Just remember the requirements for Windows 11 and know that 90% of the machines out there cannot run it because it needs TPM 2.0 and the latest CPUs to work or even install. I got $2000 saved up for a Windows 11 Pro PC when they come out, my current PC will get Debian and act as a server.

gkkirilov 5y ago

I like it but started dual booting with Ubuntu for better UNIX understanding.

cblconfederate 5y ago

someone should sue microsoft to force them to split windows 7 as a separate company and revive them

otikik 5y ago

Ok I will keep using Windows 7 then.

Synaesthesia 5y ago
I tried to use Win 7 recently and I've gotta say, I really prefer 10 in all aspects. It's faster, and still supported and feels more modern.

Synaesthesia 5y ago

The commentary here reminds me a lot of the comments around Windows 10 as it was at a similar stage. And not without merit! Windows 10 did have many issues in the early stages, but got progressively better with updates.

lukaszkups 5y ago

I've updated my Surface Book 2 to Windows 11 by accident (thought that it was just another windows update but next morning I was greet with totally new system :O) It works just nice, but it has the 1 thing that drives me crazy - rounded corners! WTH Microsoft, you could at least has an option to toggle it - I really loved the square UI of Windows 10... :|

cassepipe 5y ago

I finally cracked and installed Linux Mint on my mother's pc after failing to give her proper phone assistance in Windows 10. I was shocked how cluttered it is. For someone like my mother it's very confusing. Why do web searches show up in the menu? Everything seems to be full of confusing effects and the settings remind me of the metro UI, there's almost no options or else you have to follow one of the little links (choose the right one!). I think Microsoft secret plan must be to have everybody switch to Linux. I mean how hard can it to have a menu open, show a search bar and give proper results that you can easily scan visually?

mrjin 5y ago

Has been using Windows, Linux and BSD at the same time for almost two decades now. I use Windows for almost everything, Linux/BSD were really for exploring OS implementations, experiments etc.. Don't really want to mention Windows 9x/ME as I wasn't impressed at all, Windows NT5/2000, then Windows Server 2003/2008 were very stable and those perhaps the best releases of Windows IMO. At the same time, Linux/BSD might be more stable but the usability of the GUI was much worse. Linux/BSD get much better since then, especially Linux, I can almost do everything it need with it now. But Windows well, get much worse. Windows Vista required too much resource and I did not really use it much. Windows 7 was much better than Vista, but really I did not see much improvements from Windows 2000 excepts it looked better. Windows 8 was a step way too far by forcing user to change their habits for decades and also looked much uglier. Windows 10 basically is just Windows 8 adding back those visual elements removed from Windows 7. Worst problems with Windows 10 are not really trying to switching the UI to a new one but really not respecting the users at all and breaking existing functionality while replacements do not work at all. I seriously no idea what was their product managers were thinking by forcing restart to update without asking permission. My colleague's laptop restarted in the middle of a presentation to his boss and a whole bunch of other stakeholders as Windows 10 decided it's time to update and the estimated time to complete was over 2 hours as there were over 200 updates to install... The annoyance I personally found were Disk Manager GUI and diskpart utility broken at the same time; Both traditional GUI and so called modern UI to set IP Address/DNS server were broken at the same time. Have 32 GB of RAM and got BSOD because of out of memory for no reason etc. Almost every update, there would be surprise, not necessarily bad, but you just don't know what's going to work or break each time. Unfortunately there is still something I don't really have a replacement on Linux, or I would have ditched Windows now. If the current trend does not change, I will have to ditch it eventually, only a matter of sooner or later.

fithisux 5y ago

The os landscape is destroyed by devices requiring special drivers. This is why the options are constrained. I definitely do not like osx or Windows. I prefer Linux and Solaris needed more love. But there are newcomers like haiku and genode. The market is very hostile to these efforts.

Cyder 5y ago

It's Vista all over again.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago

I just installed Windows Server 2019 on my new laptop, in the hope it gets less telemetry, fluff and UI innovations. At least I can sleep well at night knowing I won't wake up one morning to new Windows 11 on my laptop.

Johnythree 5y ago

After reading all the grumbling here I decided to install Win11. Downloaded the beta iso, burnt a DVD and installed a new SSD. My PC is a few years old and doesn't have a TPM chip, but the RegEdit hack was simple and worked just fine. The install went smoothly and surprisingly quickly. After using Win11 for a day or two, I really like it and soon got used to the UI changes. It seems to be very fast and snappy. My one criticism is the rather clunky right-click menu's in Explorer. Hopefully that will be sorted in the next release. Bottom line, I love Win11 and won't be going back! P.S. have installed every version since Win#1, way back in 1985.