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Japan pitches 'Society 5.0' to keep its edge in tech and science

202 points by okareaman 5y ago

fighterpilot 5y ago
https://archive.is/oEY6G https://archive.is/oEY6G
alephnan 5y ago
> At the capital's iconic 634-meter Tokyo Skytree, over 200 items are being exhibited as examples of Japan-born innovation Tokyo Skytree is part of the 'All-Japan Tower Association' franchise of 20 observation decks around Japan. One of the observation decks I went to in Fukuoka didn't have commercial or residential units, and appeared to be purely an observation deck and one sad little cafe. Observation deck tickets in Japan are an order of magnitude cheaper than the observation decks in the states, which makes me curious how the economics work out. With notable exceptions such as the Space Needle which was built for the World Fair, most observation decks in the states are in skyscrapers that are developed with luxury real estate. Maybe not coincidentally, Fukuoka tower was finished in 1989 in the midst of the Japan asset bubble, which succeeded a period of opulence and hedonism with the anticipation at the time that Japan would be the global superpower, until it didn't.
- q_andrew 5y ago
  I believe the same company owns a decent amount of train stations and routes. The skytree was a way to get more traffic to a less-traveled station, and it worked like a charm. I'm willing to bet that the other observation decks serve a similar purpose.
- ehnto 5y ago
  I might be wrong, but I believe a lot of them are re-purposed TV-towers. Japan has an enormous amount of TV-Towers.
  - alephnan 5y ago
    I'm curious why we don't see converted TV towers in the States.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Most towers are primary made for TV.
mc32 5y ago
I don't know what society 5.0 means[1] in practice, but after faltering a few decades, it's good to see them publicly redouble their efforts into science and technology. I'm excited to see what their sea exploration/exploitation technology delivers. [1]"a human-centered society [helped] by a system that highly integrates cyberspace and physical space,"
- alephnan 5y ago
  > but after faltering a few decades, it's good to see them publicly redouble their efforts into science and technology If the faltering you're referring to is deflation and economic stagnation over the past three decades, the biggest issue now is population decline ( due also in part to the decades of deflation, and 1.5 generations developing a habit / culture of saving ). Science and Technology is good, and maybe both issues should be addressed, but I'm curious whether a push for STEM is a distraction from these potentially even harder problem
  - mc32 5y ago
    They may no have reached population equilibrium yet. Does Japan have to exist at 115MM people? Maybe it's viable at 50MM. Same for everyone else. Does the US have to have 330MM, or can we be okay with 250MM, or China at 750MM, etc. Declining pops diminish the need for expansionism and internal unrest. Less fighting over limited resources.
    - JohnClark1337 5y ago
      Lower population is good as there are more resources to go around, however there start to be issues as the older generations start retiring and/or are unable to work and have to rely on the smaller younger generations to support them.
    - shock-value 5y ago
      The issue with Japan is not specifically the decline nor absolute level of overall population. It's rather the demographic makeup which is shifting older. The next few decades will be increasingly difficult for them as their economy will need to support a larger level of retirees. https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2019/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2019/ China has a similar issue coming down the line. https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2019/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2019/ For reference, the U.S. population pyramid looks a bit "healthier" (more balanced), though the retirement of the boomer generation will still pose a challenge. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2019/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2...
throwaway284534 5y ago
That’s all well and good but IMO this isn’t inspiring any confidence. Japanese companies make some incredible tech that never finds its way off the showroom floor. And worse, There’s little interest in marketing their technologies to foreign firms. I wish there was more in this plan to attract foreign talent, and offer easier access to investment for individual entrepreneurs.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  1) Japan doesn't want foreigners. 2) Their central bank owns everything, hence their stock market is frozen.
- warent 5y ago
  Agreed. From my perspective, the Japanese are so hostile to foreigners/immigrants that it's borderline xenophobia. I'm not seeing a way forward for them as a technological power again until they first address some of their social issues. It's like someone wanting to become a marathon runner while refusing to quit smoking cigarettes.
  - jvanderbot 5y ago
    A native-Japanese-turned-US-citizen colleague once told me that career advancement is slow, because you pay dues with time, not accomplishments. Also, family matters in business. So, if we apply that one bit of knowledge I have, I can imagine newcomers from overseas are not pushed against because they are from another country, they might just chafe the traditions. Culture clash. He works in the US for that reason.
  - blacktriangle 5y ago
    You say that as if both the US and Europe aren't having some pretty massive downsides from their immigration policies.
    - keewee7 5y ago
      There is a difference between skilled and unskilled immigration. There is little opposition to skilled (or educated) immigration in Europe.
Aeolun 5y ago
I don’t have a lot of faith in the Japanese government pulling this off. They botched the COVID response, they botched the olympics. Like, there isn’t a lot going for them in the previous successes department.
science4sail 5y ago
I can't help but be reminded of Japan's failed Fifth Generation Computer Systems project. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer
- KineticLensman 5y ago
  That was my thought as well. I was at Uni when it happened and one of our profs was convinced that the Japanese would immediately leapfrog western computing efforts.
- tyiing8 5y ago
  The Japanese sure love the number 5... 5th generation computer, Society 5.0. The number five holds tremendous significance in nearly all Buddhist traditions: https://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/number-five.html https://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/number-five.html
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  That and Fuzzy Logic.
gjsman-1000 5y ago
Unrelated, but why do we need ".0" at the end of things like this? I'm sure they won't announce Society 5.1 later...
- nixpulvis 5y ago
  Sounds more technical this way, and avoids confusions with "Society Five" sounding like a group of people. Do you remember Web 2.0?
  - layoutIfNeeded 5y ago
    >Do you remember Web 2.0 Yes. That was when the Web started really going downhill.
- vermilingua 5y ago
  It disambiguates it as a version number, as opposed to a count or size. I agree it sounds dumb, but you do immediately know what it means.
  - dqpb 5y ago
    Don’t you need two decimals to disambiguate? Otherwise it might just be a float.
- plainnoodles 5y ago
  I think it gives it a clearer indication that it's a version number, whereas "Society 5" either sounds like either yet another sequel to Society, or part of the title itself. Also, point-oh sounds cool in English and just based on how much they use fractional percentages in Neon Genesis Evangelion, I assume it sounds cool in Japanese too.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  Semantic versioning. 4.0 -> 5.0 indicates that the new society may be backwards-incompatible, whereas 5.0->5.1 implies that society will keep all of its existing APIs while adding more. A patch version that changed its internals without adding or removing any new features would be called 5.0.1, but society versioning doesn't include the last digit because civil servants don't ever get credit for their behind-the-scenes improvements.
Hokusai 5y ago
This exhibition looks amazing. Each time I go to Japan I try to find new exhibits, there are so many times that one can go to the national museum in Tokyo and finding something new (some items rotate, so probably I will go again, thou). I hope that they repeat it next year, I hope that travel restrictions are lifted. I like science and it's fun to see real mechanical engineering instead of just software.
alephnan 5y ago
Bank ATMs in Japan stop working between 6-9PM, and on weekends. My debit card got de-magnetized ( like a flaky hotel room key ) and stopped working at the official bank ATM. It doesn't work at most third party ATMs, but I've found the 7-11 ATMs are quite robust and is actually able to transact. Seems like a weird security mechanism if the official bank ATM can't authenticate the card, but somehow 7-11 ATMs can bypass this and allow me to withdraw money. The bank's website also has a very strange username / password rules. They can only contain numbers and letters, case insensitively. Also, you can't have more than 2 consecutive numbers or letters. For example, 'foo2bar' would not be valid, nor would 'fo911baz'. 'fo23ba23' works. One of my friends in Japan is a doctor from Belarus, one of the poorest countries in Eastern Europe. She came to Japan thinking it was technologically advanced, and was shocked to find that in some aspects Belarus is more technologically modern. I have a very cynical theory about why technology is seemingly archaic here. I think the state of digital technology is due to structural / hierarchical social reasons that these initiatives don't really address. Not directly related to the hierarchical constructs, but examples of traditional practices include: - resumes must be hand-written - the stack of paperwork you need to sign for an apartment is about 1 inches thick. If you're purchasing a property, you'll probably need a couple binders. - you need to create Hanko ( personal seal stamp ) as your official signature for some paperwork
- havetocharge 5y ago
  The "strange" password limitations are probably due to some mainframe backing authentication.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    The broader "this" seems at the root of a lot of Japanese IT anachronisms. Incredibly conservative culture (especially with regards to business hierarchy) + early social digitization = huge number of antiquated systems The typical way things would finally get replaced in most companies ("If you're not migrated by X date, we're cutting it off, and your stuff will stop working") seems pretty anathema to Japanese corporate political expectations ("Don't make someone else look bad").
  - 5y ago
throwaway889900 5y ago
Society 5.0: Dystopian tracking and extra suicides! Feels like another government project that probably won't have much tangible benefit for society and is all just a flashy name.
brandelune 5y ago
And Japan is betting on pervasive hydrogen based electricity generation to manage carbon neutrality by 2050... A lot of wishful thinking + hot air and "I won't be there to see the disaster" from current politicians...
AlbertCory 5y ago
"Japan getting an edge with future technology!" When have I heard that before? Oh, yeah, it was 1983: https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Generation-Artificial-Intelligence-Challenge/dp/0201115190/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Generation-Artificial-Intellige...?
desine 5y ago
They named it "Society 5.0" but they don't address the issues of their society that will actually cause problems keeping up. Their technological prowess is already well established, and does not need much boost. However, Japan's got a few social issues that will hold it back - particularly the work hours requirements, and related to that, it's low birth rates.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I'm not sure low birth rates is so much of a problem, they will just keep people working longer.
gumby 5y ago
Reminds me of Japan’s “Fifth Generation” initiative/boondoggle back in the 80s. Apart from the sheer technical limitations of the age, it fell prey to structural limitations. For example I remember when visiting I talked with some programmers. Even there, the developers sat in rows of desks with the manager perpendicular at the end. I asked one why it was like working there and he said “It’s good, I only have to share my terminal with one person” (The terminals of course connected to a KL-20, so they had almost the state of the art equipment). So different from my office in the US where I had a lispm. 10 years later SCEI and Nintendo had a more relaxed, “US style” office, but the rest of the industry hadn’t caught up. Today though Japan has a demographic need for a big move forward. I wonder if they will pull it off?
- adamc 5y ago
  Do we have any examples where such an initiative, starting at the government level, has worked?
  - gumby 5y ago
    In the USA: WPA, Atomic bomb, Moon landing, and most successfully development of the Military Industrial Complex, exultation of the military (integration into Hollywood, professional sports etc) coupled with the forever war system to channel taxpayer funds to friends in a way that cannot be unwound. It's hard to understand the public attitude towards the US military 1780s-1960s if you only know the 180° position from the mid 1980s onward. Great Leap Forward? Electrification of the Soviet Union? Elimination of the smallpox virus? Arguably the Cultural Revolution and, to a lesser extent the restructuring of German culture in the 1930s were extremely "successful" in that they accomplished their putative goals, and also had led to long term changes in those societies, though fortunately not the long term changes intended by their instigators.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  Japan could make it easier and more social acceptable for married women to work, but I know of no country that has been able to get its citizens to have more children, once they have been reduced (on the contrary, it seems the world over women are having fewer children in just about every country, as the economy of that country becomes more prosperous). And of course any child not born, is also a child that does not grow up to have children.
mortenjorck 5y ago
> Cyberdyne's HAL, standing for "hybrid assistive limb," which the company claims to be the world's first "wearable cyborg." Whether intentional or not, an homage to not one but two dystopian science fiction stories is an odd look for a robotics company.
- airstrike 5y ago
  I for one can't wait until they start fitting the Detroit police force with their cyborg exoskeletons...
- fullstop 5y ago
  It's up there with Espressif's Skainet [1] 1. https://www.espressif.com/en/solutions/audio-solutions/esp-skainet/overview https://www.espressif.com/en/solutions/audio-solutions/esp-s...
- ginko 5y ago
  I wouldn't call 2001 a dystopian story.
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    the film overall is not, but I don't think you want your wearable exoskeleton to take any cues from HAL 9000
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      Simply don't lie to it, and everything will be good.
- ghostbrainalpha 5y ago
  No one thinks deeply about the meaning of stories. They just like including pop cultural references. When the U.S. military creates an advanced android soldier there is a 100% chance it will unironically be called "Project Terminator" at some point in its development.
Iwan-Zotow 5y ago
Without birth grows or immigration issue resolved there would be no edge
mensetmanusman 5y ago
It’s so new, that 4.0 doesn’t suffice. Wow
lawrenceyan 5y ago
I think focusing on improving current rigid education, work culture, and immigration policies are far more likely to make a meaningful impact. It’s the more boring solution, and also one that most requires facing uncomfortable truths, however.
- x3iv130f 5y ago
  Encouraging diversity in leadership would be a good first step. Including younger, female, and international leaders in the decision making process would bring a lot of fresh perspectives.
  - i_am_new_here 5y ago
    I don't see why Japanese men shouldn't be up to the job compared to the groups you listed with their obvious downsides: younger - lack of experience female - women to the rescue international - lack exposure to local customs "Fresh perspective" / "leaders in the decision making process" (leadership positions) - Hacker News agrees that "it's all about execution" and that "adding more ideas/perspectives" as you suggest here might be rather counterproductive or at least not a benefit. It's software engineers that get payed a multiple of other (regular) jobs in silicon valley, which sets SV apart from the rest of the world. People arguing like you are either young, not-male and/or not-native and want one of the financially attractive leadership positions for the money. They don't want or promote diversity anywhere else but in this limited area (leadership positions), which just quickly exposes their true underlying motivation: Hypocrisy and your own greed.
    - andrewzah 5y ago
      That's your personal interpretation, and in my opinion it's quite revealing. It should go without saying, but I guess it needs to be explicitly stated here: it's good to have -qualified-, diverse candidates in leadership roles. Obviously just putting some underqualified person isn't going to work out and it's a bit tautological to state this. There's nothing about "young" that automatically means "lack of experience", or "old" that automatically means "experienced". There's nothing about "more diverse candidates" that means "not qualified"- that's your personal interpretation. It doesn't mean "more qualified" either. Leadership (and really, all company roles) benefit from having different perspectives. When your perspective is from generally one group it's easy to be out of touch and just start missing the mark.
debarshri 5y ago
Is the Society 5.0 also funded by vision fund?
m0llusk 5y ago
Maybe some political innovation would be good also. They should legalize the herb.
ogogmad 5y ago
This article suggests that the reason Japan fell behind in personal computing, and over-focused on appliance-oriented computing, is because of its writing system: https://blog.gatunka.com/2008/05/05/why-japan-didnt-create-the-ipod/ https://blog.gatunka.com/2008/05/05/why-japan-didnt-create-t... They use the fax machine over there a lot more than we do because of this.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- distribot 5y ago
  Are there any books kinda in this vein?
atentaten 5y ago
The Society 5.0 idea comes out of the U.N. Sustainable Development Goals, which is also promulgated by the World Economic Forum. Japan is calling their implementation Society 5.0. Other countries will use a different names or similar naming schemes.
- lioeters 5y ago
  Here's a reference about the U.N. Sustainable Development Goals. United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs - Sustainable Development: 17 Goals - https://sdgs.un.org/goals https://sdgs.un.org/goals
RedComet 5y ago
We're watching the destruction of what's left of Japanese culture and hegemony in real time.
- no_time 5y ago
  If you mean increasing globalization then this isn't exclusive to Japan. In fact, if you want to escape this trend then your only two options are Iran and North Korea.
  - RedComet 5y ago
    I don't understand - moving somewhere else would only accelerate the aforementioned destruction. For the mover in particular, it would be immediate. Regardless, I suspect that Iran, at least, will toppled relatively soon. North Korea will probably be around a little longer.
BurritoAlPastor 5y ago
What were the previous major versions? Heian period, Tokugawa shogunate, Meiji restoration, and postwar/Economic Miracle era?
ChrisArchitect 5y ago
While watching the Olympics this past weekend and I recalled how the flip phone cellphone era of the late 90s/early 00s was always on some other level in Japan. No one in North America had anything like we would sometimes get a glimpse of what was being used in Japan. Yes, even EU had some of the more advanced stuff but it was always Japan at the bleeding edge. So many designs, features, video etc. Reminds of the Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift movie that showed all the kids relaying video during races etc. And movie audiences in NA thinking that's crazy/wow/unheard of. But then things changed first tipping with Blackberry and then iPhone/smartphones and now Japan is nowhere in the conversation. (How Japanese use some of their tech/apps/interfaces in the city etc is a different thing, culture that's somewhat kept on, their relationship with technology has a fascinating evolution that's kept them in otherworldly territory in some regards, but that's a different discussion) It's all samsung and apple and google designs etc. Crazy how that changed.
echlebek 5y ago
Oh, deregulation is needed for flying cars you say? Well OK then, who cares about the safety of the populace. Progress marches onwards!
darkteflon 5y ago
If you believe Japan has the political will to overcome its demographic challenges this century, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
euske 5y ago
I think I'm late for the discussion, but as a person who grew up in Japan and lived both in the US and Japan, so many things people mentioned here ring true. The thing is that, there are many, many people who want to change, but they're afraid to speak up. Here's my (probably unpopular) suggestions to Japan: - Fire more people, more often. - Dismantle lifetime employment. - Forget perfectionism. - Destabilize the social hierarchy. - Stop being polite and be ready to confront others. - Incorporate more foreigners. - Learn to negotiate. - Be assertive. Basically, we should drop the stereotypical image of being Japanese. Not sure if we can do it, but there isn't much time left. edit: formatting

202 points by okareaman 5y ago

https://archive.is/oEY6G https://archive.is/oEY6G

> At the capital's iconic 634-meter Tokyo Skytree, over 200 items are being exhibited as examples of Japan-born innovation Tokyo Skytree is part of the 'All-Japan Tower Association' franchise of 20 observation decks around Japan. One of the observation decks I went to in Fukuoka didn't have commercial or residential units, and appeared to be purely an observation deck and one sad little cafe. Observation deck tickets in Japan are an order of magnitude cheaper than the observation decks in the states, which makes me curious how the economics work out. With notable exceptions such as the Space Needle which was built for the World Fair, most observation decks in the states are in skyscrapers that are developed with luxury real estate. Maybe not coincidentally, Fukuoka tower was finished in 1989 in the midst of the Japan asset bubble, which succeeded a period of opulence and hedonism with the anticipation at the time that Japan would be the global superpower, until it didn't.

q_andrew 5y ago
I believe the same company owns a decent amount of train stations and routes. The skytree was a way to get more traffic to a less-traveled station, and it worked like a charm. I'm willing to bet that the other observation decks serve a similar purpose.
ehnto 5y ago
I might be wrong, but I believe a lot of them are re-purposed TV-towers. Japan has an enormous amount of TV-Towers.
- alephnan 5y ago
  I'm curious why we don't see converted TV towers in the States.
fomine3 5y ago
Most towers are primary made for TV.

mc32 5y ago

I don't know what society 5.0 means[1] in practice, but after faltering a few decades, it's good to see them publicly redouble their efforts into science and technology. I'm excited to see what their sea exploration/exploitation technology delivers. [1]"a human-centered society [helped] by a system that highly integrates cyberspace and physical space,"

alephnan 5y ago
> but after faltering a few decades, it's good to see them publicly redouble their efforts into science and technology If the faltering you're referring to is deflation and economic stagnation over the past three decades, the biggest issue now is population decline ( due also in part to the decades of deflation, and 1.5 generations developing a habit / culture of saving ). Science and Technology is good, and maybe both issues should be addressed, but I'm curious whether a push for STEM is a distraction from these potentially even harder problem
- mc32 5y ago
  They may no have reached population equilibrium yet. Does Japan have to exist at 115MM people? Maybe it's viable at 50MM. Same for everyone else. Does the US have to have 330MM, or can we be okay with 250MM, or China at 750MM, etc. Declining pops diminish the need for expansionism and internal unrest. Less fighting over limited resources.
  - JohnClark1337 5y ago
    Lower population is good as there are more resources to go around, however there start to be issues as the older generations start retiring and/or are unable to work and have to rely on the smaller younger generations to support them.
  - shock-value 5y ago
    The issue with Japan is not specifically the decline nor absolute level of overall population. It's rather the demographic makeup which is shifting older. The next few decades will be increasingly difficult for them as their economy will need to support a larger level of retirees. https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2019/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2019/ China has a similar issue coming down the line. https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2019/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2019/ For reference, the U.S. population pyramid looks a bit "healthier" (more balanced), though the retirement of the boomer generation will still pose a challenge. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2019/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2...

throwaway284534 5y ago

That’s all well and good but IMO this isn’t inspiring any confidence. Japanese companies make some incredible tech that never finds its way off the showroom floor. And worse, There’s little interest in marketing their technologies to foreign firms. I wish there was more in this plan to attract foreign talent, and offer easier access to investment for individual entrepreneurs.

redis_mlc 5y ago
1) Japan doesn't want foreigners. 2) Their central bank owns everything, hence their stock market is frozen.
warent 5y ago
Agreed. From my perspective, the Japanese are so hostile to foreigners/immigrants that it's borderline xenophobia. I'm not seeing a way forward for them as a technological power again until they first address some of their social issues. It's like someone wanting to become a marathon runner while refusing to quit smoking cigarettes.
- jvanderbot 5y ago
  A native-Japanese-turned-US-citizen colleague once told me that career advancement is slow, because you pay dues with time, not accomplishments. Also, family matters in business. So, if we apply that one bit of knowledge I have, I can imagine newcomers from overseas are not pushed against because they are from another country, they might just chafe the traditions. Culture clash. He works in the US for that reason.
- blacktriangle 5y ago
  You say that as if both the US and Europe aren't having some pretty massive downsides from their immigration policies.
  - keewee7 5y ago
    There is a difference between skilled and unskilled immigration. There is little opposition to skilled (or educated) immigration in Europe.

Aeolun 5y ago

I don’t have a lot of faith in the Japanese government pulling this off. They botched the COVID response, they botched the olympics. Like, there isn’t a lot going for them in the previous successes department.

science4sail 5y ago

I can't help but be reminded of Japan's failed Fifth Generation Computer Systems project. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer

KineticLensman 5y ago
That was my thought as well. I was at Uni when it happened and one of our profs was convinced that the Japanese would immediately leapfrog western computing efforts.
tyiing8 5y ago
The Japanese sure love the number 5... 5th generation computer, Society 5.0. The number five holds tremendous significance in nearly all Buddhist traditions: https://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/number-five.html https://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/number-five.html
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
That and Fuzzy Logic.

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Unrelated, but why do we need ".0" at the end of things like this? I'm sure they won't announce Society 5.1 later...

nixpulvis 5y ago
Sounds more technical this way, and avoids confusions with "Society Five" sounding like a group of people. Do you remember Web 2.0?
- layoutIfNeeded 5y ago
  >Do you remember Web 2.0 Yes. That was when the Web started really going downhill.
vermilingua 5y ago
It disambiguates it as a version number, as opposed to a count or size. I agree it sounds dumb, but you do immediately know what it means.
- dqpb 5y ago
  Don’t you need two decimals to disambiguate? Otherwise it might just be a float.
plainnoodles 5y ago
I think it gives it a clearer indication that it's a version number, whereas "Society 5" either sounds like either yet another sequel to Society, or part of the title itself. Also, point-oh sounds cool in English and just based on how much they use fractional percentages in Neon Genesis Evangelion, I assume it sounds cool in Japanese too.
whatshisface 5y ago
Semantic versioning. 4.0 -> 5.0 indicates that the new society may be backwards-incompatible, whereas 5.0->5.1 implies that society will keep all of its existing APIs while adding more. A patch version that changed its internals without adding or removing any new features would be called 5.0.1, but society versioning doesn't include the last digit because civil servants don't ever get credit for their behind-the-scenes improvements.

Hokusai 5y ago

This exhibition looks amazing. Each time I go to Japan I try to find new exhibits, there are so many times that one can go to the national museum in Tokyo and finding something new (some items rotate, so probably I will go again, thou). I hope that they repeat it next year, I hope that travel restrictions are lifted. I like science and it's fun to see real mechanical engineering instead of just software.

alephnan 5y ago

Bank ATMs in Japan stop working between 6-9PM, and on weekends. My debit card got de-magnetized ( like a flaky hotel room key ) and stopped working at the official bank ATM. It doesn't work at most third party ATMs, but I've found the 7-11 ATMs are quite robust and is actually able to transact. Seems like a weird security mechanism if the official bank ATM can't authenticate the card, but somehow 7-11 ATMs can bypass this and allow me to withdraw money. The bank's website also has a very strange username / password rules. They can only contain numbers and letters, case insensitively. Also, you can't have more than 2 consecutive numbers or letters. For example, 'foo2bar' would not be valid, nor would 'fo911baz'. 'fo23ba23' works. One of my friends in Japan is a doctor from Belarus, one of the poorest countries in Eastern Europe. She came to Japan thinking it was technologically advanced, and was shocked to find that in some aspects Belarus is more technologically modern. I have a very cynical theory about why technology is seemingly archaic here. I think the state of digital technology is due to structural / hierarchical social reasons that these initiatives don't really address. Not directly related to the hierarchical constructs, but examples of traditional practices include: - resumes must be hand-written - the stack of paperwork you need to sign for an apartment is about 1 inches thick. If you're purchasing a property, you'll probably need a couple binders. - you need to create Hanko ( personal seal stamp ) as your official signature for some paperwork

havetocharge 5y ago
The "strange" password limitations are probably due to some mainframe backing authentication.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  The broader "this" seems at the root of a lot of Japanese IT anachronisms. Incredibly conservative culture (especially with regards to business hierarchy) + early social digitization = huge number of antiquated systems The typical way things would finally get replaced in most companies ("If you're not migrated by X date, we're cutting it off, and your stuff will stop working") seems pretty anathema to Japanese corporate political expectations ("Don't make someone else look bad").
- 5y ago

throwaway889900 5y ago

Society 5.0: Dystopian tracking and extra suicides! Feels like another government project that probably won't have much tangible benefit for society and is all just a flashy name.

brandelune 5y ago

And Japan is betting on pervasive hydrogen based electricity generation to manage carbon neutrality by 2050... A lot of wishful thinking + hot air and "I won't be there to see the disaster" from current politicians...

AlbertCory 5y ago

"Japan getting an edge with future technology!" When have I heard that before? Oh, yeah, it was 1983: https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Generation-Artificial-Intelligence-Challenge/dp/0201115190/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Generation-Artificial-Intellige...?

desine 5y ago

They named it "Society 5.0" but they don't address the issues of their society that will actually cause problems keeping up. Their technological prowess is already well established, and does not need much boost. However, Japan's got a few social issues that will hold it back - particularly the work hours requirements, and related to that, it's low birth rates.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
I'm not sure low birth rates is so much of a problem, they will just keep people working longer.

gumby 5y ago

Reminds me of Japan’s “Fifth Generation” initiative/boondoggle back in the 80s. Apart from the sheer technical limitations of the age, it fell prey to structural limitations. For example I remember when visiting I talked with some programmers. Even there, the developers sat in rows of desks with the manager perpendicular at the end. I asked one why it was like working there and he said “It’s good, I only have to share my terminal with one person” (The terminals of course connected to a KL-20, so they had almost the state of the art equipment). So different from my office in the US where I had a lispm. 10 years later SCEI and Nintendo had a more relaxed, “US style” office, but the rest of the industry hadn’t caught up. Today though Japan has a demographic need for a big move forward. I wonder if they will pull it off?

adamc 5y ago
Do we have any examples where such an initiative, starting at the government level, has worked?
- gumby 5y ago
  In the USA: WPA, Atomic bomb, Moon landing, and most successfully development of the Military Industrial Complex, exultation of the military (integration into Hollywood, professional sports etc) coupled with the forever war system to channel taxpayer funds to friends in a way that cannot be unwound. It's hard to understand the public attitude towards the US military 1780s-1960s if you only know the 180° position from the mid 1980s onward. Great Leap Forward? Electrification of the Soviet Union? Elimination of the smallpox virus? Arguably the Cultural Revolution and, to a lesser extent the restructuring of German culture in the 1930s were extremely "successful" in that they accomplished their putative goals, and also had led to long term changes in those societies, though fortunately not the long term changes intended by their instigators.
tomjen3 5y ago
Japan could make it easier and more social acceptable for married women to work, but I know of no country that has been able to get its citizens to have more children, once they have been reduced (on the contrary, it seems the world over women are having fewer children in just about every country, as the economy of that country becomes more prosperous). And of course any child not born, is also a child that does not grow up to have children.

mortenjorck 5y ago

> Cyberdyne's HAL, standing for "hybrid assistive limb," which the company claims to be the world's first "wearable cyborg." Whether intentional or not, an homage to not one but two dystopian science fiction stories is an odd look for a robotics company.

airstrike 5y ago
I for one can't wait until they start fitting the Detroit police force with their cyborg exoskeletons...
fullstop 5y ago
It's up there with Espressif's Skainet [1] 1. https://www.espressif.com/en/solutions/audio-solutions/esp-skainet/overview https://www.espressif.com/en/solutions/audio-solutions/esp-s...
ginko 5y ago
I wouldn't call 2001 a dystopian story.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  the film overall is not, but I don't think you want your wearable exoskeleton to take any cues from HAL 9000
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Simply don't lie to it, and everything will be good.
ghostbrainalpha 5y ago
No one thinks deeply about the meaning of stories. They just like including pop cultural references. When the U.S. military creates an advanced android soldier there is a 100% chance it will unironically be called "Project Terminator" at some point in its development.

Iwan-Zotow 5y ago

Without birth grows or immigration issue resolved there would be no edge

mensetmanusman 5y ago

It’s so new, that 4.0 doesn’t suffice. Wow

lawrenceyan 5y ago

I think focusing on improving current rigid education, work culture, and immigration policies are far more likely to make a meaningful impact. It’s the more boring solution, and also one that most requires facing uncomfortable truths, however.

x3iv130f 5y ago
Encouraging diversity in leadership would be a good first step. Including younger, female, and international leaders in the decision making process would bring a lot of fresh perspectives.
- i_am_new_here 5y ago
  I don't see why Japanese men shouldn't be up to the job compared to the groups you listed with their obvious downsides: younger - lack of experience female - women to the rescue international - lack exposure to local customs "Fresh perspective" / "leaders in the decision making process" (leadership positions) - Hacker News agrees that "it's all about execution" and that "adding more ideas/perspectives" as you suggest here might be rather counterproductive or at least not a benefit. It's software engineers that get payed a multiple of other (regular) jobs in silicon valley, which sets SV apart from the rest of the world. People arguing like you are either young, not-male and/or not-native and want one of the financially attractive leadership positions for the money. They don't want or promote diversity anywhere else but in this limited area (leadership positions), which just quickly exposes their true underlying motivation: Hypocrisy and your own greed.
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    That's your personal interpretation, and in my opinion it's quite revealing. It should go without saying, but I guess it needs to be explicitly stated here: it's good to have -qualified-, diverse candidates in leadership roles. Obviously just putting some underqualified person isn't going to work out and it's a bit tautological to state this. There's nothing about "young" that automatically means "lack of experience", or "old" that automatically means "experienced". There's nothing about "more diverse candidates" that means "not qualified"- that's your personal interpretation. It doesn't mean "more qualified" either. Leadership (and really, all company roles) benefit from having different perspectives. When your perspective is from generally one group it's easy to be out of touch and just start missing the mark.

debarshri 5y ago

Is the Society 5.0 also funded by vision fund?

m0llusk 5y ago

Maybe some political innovation would be good also. They should legalize the herb.

ogogmad 5y ago

This article suggests that the reason Japan fell behind in personal computing, and over-focused on appliance-oriented computing, is because of its writing system: https://blog.gatunka.com/2008/05/05/why-japan-didnt-create-the-ipod/ https://blog.gatunka.com/2008/05/05/why-japan-didnt-create-t... They use the fax machine over there a lot more than we do because of this.

deleted 5y ago
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distribot 5y ago
Are there any books kinda in this vein?

atentaten 5y ago

The Society 5.0 idea comes out of the U.N. Sustainable Development Goals, which is also promulgated by the World Economic Forum. Japan is calling their implementation Society 5.0. Other countries will use a different names or similar naming schemes.

lioeters 5y ago
Here's a reference about the U.N. Sustainable Development Goals. United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs - Sustainable Development: 17 Goals - https://sdgs.un.org/goals https://sdgs.un.org/goals

RedComet 5y ago

We're watching the destruction of what's left of Japanese culture and hegemony in real time.

no_time 5y ago
If you mean increasing globalization then this isn't exclusive to Japan. In fact, if you want to escape this trend then your only two options are Iran and North Korea.
- RedComet 5y ago
  I don't understand - moving somewhere else would only accelerate the aforementioned destruction. For the mover in particular, it would be immediate. Regardless, I suspect that Iran, at least, will toppled relatively soon. North Korea will probably be around a little longer.

BurritoAlPastor 5y ago

What were the previous major versions? Heian period, Tokugawa shogunate, Meiji restoration, and postwar/Economic Miracle era?

ChrisArchitect 5y ago

While watching the Olympics this past weekend and I recalled how the flip phone cellphone era of the late 90s/early 00s was always on some other level in Japan. No one in North America had anything like we would sometimes get a glimpse of what was being used in Japan. Yes, even EU had some of the more advanced stuff but it was always Japan at the bleeding edge. So many designs, features, video etc. Reminds of the Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift movie that showed all the kids relaying video during races etc. And movie audiences in NA thinking that's crazy/wow/unheard of. But then things changed first tipping with Blackberry and then iPhone/smartphones and now Japan is nowhere in the conversation. (How Japanese use some of their tech/apps/interfaces in the city etc is a different thing, culture that's somewhat kept on, their relationship with technology has a fascinating evolution that's kept them in otherworldly territory in some regards, but that's a different discussion) It's all samsung and apple and google designs etc. Crazy how that changed.

echlebek 5y ago

Oh, deregulation is needed for flying cars you say? Well OK then, who cares about the safety of the populace. Progress marches onwards!

darkteflon 5y ago

If you believe Japan has the political will to overcome its demographic challenges this century, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

euske 5y ago

I think I'm late for the discussion, but as a person who grew up in Japan and lived both in the US and Japan, so many things people mentioned here ring true. The thing is that, there are many, many people who want to change, but they're afraid to speak up. Here's my (probably unpopular) suggestions to Japan: - Fire more people, more often. - Dismantle lifetime employment. - Forget perfectionism. - Destabilize the social hierarchy. - Stop being polite and be ready to confront others. - Incorporate more foreigners. - Learn to negotiate. - Be assertive. Basically, we should drop the stereotypical image of being Japanese. Not sure if we can do it, but there isn't much time left. edit: formatting