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Peloton recalling all treadmills after reports of injuries, one death
- ajb 5y agoAbout time. Previous discussion (from before the recall): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26846641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26846641
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y agoAre there better articles about this? I got a pop-up trying to sell me their stock tips. They blocked my back button to give another popup ad. Anywho, >While Peloton doesn’t break out sales of its treadmills, Cowen & Co. had previously estimated that the Tread+ would represent about 2.2% of unit sales in 2021. That’s out of about 1.63 million stationary bikes and treadmills combined, it said. That's going to be an expensive recall. I wonder if they'll come out ahead on these ~~bikes~~treadmills or if it would have been worth it to design them more thoughtfully in the first place.
- xwdv 5y agoThe treadmills are recalled, not the bikes.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y agoFixed.
- SirSourdough 5y agoBased on these numbers I’m almost surprised they were resistant to regulators calling for a recall in the first place because it put them in a bad PR position over only 2% of their units.
- hoppyhoppy2 5y agohttps://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/peloton-recalls-treadmills-after-childs-death-29-child-injuries-72-accidents/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/peloton-recalls-trea...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- osrec 5y agoFor those who own Peloton products, what do you think of them? Are they genuinely worth the price and continued financial commitment?
- danjac 5y agoNot sure I'd spend a lot of money on a deathtrap whose entire purpose is to recreate a Victorian method of corporal punishment.
- osrec 5y agoLol, I wasn't expecting such a cynical view!
- afavour 5y agoI know your comment is intended to be tounge-in-cheek but just to clarify: this recall is of Peloton's treadmill. The vast majority of Peloton users use their spin bike.
- LightG 5y agoI see the downvotes, but I appreciated that description, lol!
- clpm4j 5y agoThe bike and the instructors are best-in-class. All of the accessories (shoes, weights, apparel, etc) that I've picked up have been cheap (but expensive) and underwhelming. Can't speak to the treadmill, but this recall article says a lot. The bike is one of my favorites possessions though and I'd be devastated if that ever went away.
- ghostbrainalpha 5y agoTotally agree with everything you said! Why are their Peloton brand Heart monitors so unbelievably shitty? And can you recommend a better shoe that works with the bike? I didn't come from the world of cycling so I didn't know anything about bikes before Peleton.
- im3w1l 5y agoLooking at the picture from the previous thread, it seems they don't even have to compromise the look by putting a guard. All they need to do is cover the bottom side of the belt - if it isn't exposed it can't pull anything under.
- spaceisballer 5y agoI think the problem is also the rising and lowering of the unit. So you have to block off the sides and front too.
- elliekelly 5y ago> CEO John Foley apologized for not cooperating with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission sooner. What an absolutely baffling strategy for them to have originally pursued in response.
- AlexandrB 5y agoThis is like the opposite of the 1982 Tylenol recall[1]. Deny the problem. Minimize the impact. Until the outrage reaches such a level that you have to do the recall anyway and your reputation is now dirt. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders#Johnson_&_Johnson_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders#Johnso...
- justapassenger 5y agoIs it? USA regulatory agencies are only getting weaker, especially in last 5 years. And it pays off to fight with them. Look at Elon Musk and his companies.
- LightG 5y agoHence why I will never buy a Tesla (among other reasons). n=1 ... and you may be right in general.
- ashtonkem 5y agoDepends on the agency. Nobody is going to not buy a Tesla because Musk angered the SEC, because the SEC protects an abstract public good. It’s a wildly different case when you get into a fight with an agency that protects public safety in an easy to understand way; even if you win the legal fight consumers might decide that your product is dangerous and to be avoided, a Pyrrhic victory. Someone else here mentioned Tylenol, which is a good counter example. Aggressive and transparent moves in the direction of consumer safety can both save a company in a PR crisis, and actually turn it into a boon for brand good will and loyalty.
- panarky 5y agoHe also blatantly defied Alameda County covid shutdown orders to reopen a Tesla factory. Tesla promised workers that they could stay home if they didn't feel comfortable breaking the law. Workers who stayed home then received termination notices. Hundreds of people who returned to work at Tesla were then sickened by the disease. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/03/12/hundreds-covid-cases-reported-tesla-plant-following-musks-defiant-reopening-county-data-shows/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/03/12/hundred...
- hoppyhoppy2 5y agoWhen "move fast and break things"... breaks things.
- EForEndeavour 5y agoAnd people!
- paulpauper 5y agodamn. I know there was a discussion about this a month ago, but the the clearance from the floor to the bottom of the treadmill seems too low to actually engulf a child, unless the child somehow has a really small head, is an infant, or is sucked under feet-first, which would not cause asphyxiation but still be bad. The story about the death did not actually describe the cause, only that the kid died.
- aidenn0 5y agoIn a video shared in the discussion from a month ago, the back of the treadill "climbed" up the toddler that was being pulled under it; the rear was no longer touching the ground.
- coding123 5y agoThat's just horrifying
- gvb 5y agoThe U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission released a video of a child being sucked under the machine. The child was not injured in this instance, but the video is horrifying to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onXNnlCYJ4Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onXNnlCYJ4Y
- dkarl 5y agoThe video shows a sequence of events I never would have predicted yet in hindsight seems inevitable: a child holds an inflatable ball to the back of the treadmill, causing the ball to get sucked underneath and boost the back end of the treadmill off the ground, creating clearance for the child to get dragged under as well. I'm surprised there haven't been more injuries as a result of this. By the way, thanks for mentioning that the child wasn't injured. If I thought I was watching a child being hurt or killed, I don't think I could have watched it, but knowing beforehand that the children were not injured, I found it kind of hilarious.
- mnouquet 5y ago
- tw04 5y agoI have a Tread+, I find the entire situation ridiculous. There should be no recall, there is nothing wrong with the treadmill. The only issue is lazy parents who refuse to remove the security key when it's not in use. All of the cited accidents would be impossible if people had taken the 4 seconds required to remove the security key. It's tragic that children died, but entirely preventable. There's a reason every treadmill on the planet that you can purchase has on the very first page of the manual that you need to keep children and animals away from it while it's in use, and to remove the security key when it's not in use. I challenge those of you downvoting away to show me how this accident would have occurred if the parent(s) in question had removed the safety key. I also challenge you to find me a treadmill that wouldn't react in the exact same fashion if you jammed an exercise ball into the back of it. Here's a hint: none of them stop. The force of you striking the treadmill while running is greater than the resistance of a treadmill pulling on that ball. I expected better than twitter reactionism out of HN. And for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNlX4VaN2bU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNlX4VaN2bU https://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/real-life/in-the-news/threeyearold-suffers-horrific-injuries-from-home-treadmill/news-story/5b31571e6e3fac5a4a7e29743d8ef4e3 https://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/real-life/in-the-news/t...
- nerdbaggy 5y agoHave you watched the video? It’s pretty jarring. The treadmill doesn’t even stop when the kid caused the tread to stop because his body was so wedged underneath it. It just kept trying.
- tw04 5y agoI have watched the video, I can recreate that video with a non-peloton treadmill like the one at my gym. It doesn't stop either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNlX4VaN2bU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNlX4VaN2bU Which, again, is why there's a magnetic safety key that takes seconds to remove so that something like this doesn't happen.
- nrmitchi 5y ago
- ashtonkem 5y agoI get that treadmills can be somewhat dangerous, you are basically building a moving road, but surely we’ve ironed out most of the safety kinks by now, right? Treadmills are an old, understood technology. At this point we really should only be seeing injuries from people who purposefully misuse them, not during normal operation. It’s particularly galling for Peloton, because their gear is already overpriced. Shouldn’t some of that cost go into making sure that it doesn’t rattle itself apart?
- sebdufbeau 5y agoThe problems came from the touchscreens loosening, detaching and falling, which I would assume is a fairly new problem in the history of treadmill safety. Edit: main safety issue doesn't seem to be the touchscreens actually
- vnchr 5y agoThey didn’t include a rear guard so a child was pulled under. They ignore a solved problem for aesthetics.
- ashtonkem 5y agoI do not believe that Peloton is the first treadmill to use a touchscreen, nor are they the first company to install a touchscreen in a high vibration environment.
- wlonkly 5y agoThe touchscreen falls off of the lower-end model, the Tread, and the belt problem is on the high-end Tread+. Two separate recalls.
- karpierz 5y agoWe have ironed out the kinks, it's just that Peloton decided to remove some of the safety features (IE, a guard at the bottom to stop feet from getting stuck under) to make it look sleeker.
- 5y ago
- unethical_ban 5y agoSeems like the sort of case where they should have a "child safety" package at no cost (of course it would be built into the price of all units sold). Kind of like there are non-childproof medicine bottles. Anyway, their stock is down 10% but I think that's silly; I don't think anyone who was considering a PTON is going to not, now. Maybe their earnings will take a hit, but does retail even care about that anymore?
- ashtonkem 5y agoI don’t think including a rear guard is a child safety specific issue. All in all you’d probably prefer not having your leg sucked under your treadmill, even if you don’t have kids.
- travisporter 5y agoI'm drawing a parallel to ikea who recently recalled a bib because somewhere in the world the snaps fell off. No one was even hurt. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/customer-service/product-support/recalls/ikea-recalls-matvra-bib-due-to-choking-hazard-pub4451eb61 https://www.ikea.com/us/en/customer-service/product-support/....
- dguaraglia 5y agoYeah, well, all you need is a single baby to die to get a huge lawsuit so saying 'no one was even hurt' is hugely understating the problem here.
- dqv 5y agoI think this is more because they are still trying to recover their reputation from the deadly dresser debacle.
- cwkoss 5y agoI wonder if companies that do a recall because their product killed someone are more likely to intentionally make future product recalls about minor things so that the public will associated "brand + recall" with something less morbid.
- airstrike 5y agoStock is down ~15% as of 2:15pm EDT
- datavirtue 5y agoRediculous. I doubt anyone returns them. The only safety concern is Pelaton being stalked by tyrannical government regulation.
- QuinnyPig 5y ago“Don’t ship products that can easily hurt or kill kids/pets” isn’t the shining example of governmental overreach I’d reach for.
- 45ure 5y ago>The agency said Peloton's treadmills are designed differently than its peers, with "an unusual belt design that uses individual rigid rubberized slats or treads that are interlocked and ride on a rail." That's instead of a thinner, continuous belt. There is also a large gap between the floor and the belt of the Tread+, leaving room for things to wiggle their way under. The commission in April simultaneously released a graphic video, captured by a home security camera, of a young boy being pulled under one of the Tread+ machines and struggling to free himself. But Peloton pushed back on the recommended recall at the time, telling customers there was no reason to stop using its treadmills, so long as children and pets were kept out of the area while in use. The company had also recommended a key be used to lock the device after each workout. The fight club defence. Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents? Narrator: You wouldn't believe. Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for? Narrator: A major one.
- GLGirty 5y ago> The fight club defence IIRC that was based on the ford pinto
- ErikVandeWater 5y agoPopular Mechanics says the Ford Pinto was no more dangerous than competitors' cars: https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a6700/top-automotive-engineering-failures-ford-pinto-fuel-tanks/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a6700/top-automotive-e... Does anyone have any thoughts on that? I imagine that small cars are the most dangerous to be in, since they will stop more abruptly if they hit something, as opposed to something like a bus which will demolish almost anything in its way.
- ericbarrett 5y ago
- stevev 5y agoRun outside or get a truform or assault runner.
- na85 5y ago>Run outside Not all of us live in California. In huge parts of North America there is ice and snow on the ground for 3-6 months of the year and it's objectively unsafe to jog outside.
- thehappypm 5y agoYep. It's one of the funny pranks of the Boston Marathon, America's premier marathon. To train for it in New England means training through the winter, far from ideal. The second prank? It takes place in April, where the weather is unbelievably schizophrenic in Boston -- could be 60 and sunny, could be a blizzard, could be hailing sideways, could be pouring rain, could even be 80. Funnily enough 2020 and 2021 would have both been nice days.
- offtop5 5y agoAny reason why they didn't just buy a treadmill, add their IOT stuff on top and ship it ? This seems like a really silly design choice
- cwkoss 5y agotech bro hubris
- banbanbang 5y agobecause they need to charge 100% premium for their shareholders.
- wlonkly 5y agoMy wife is a runner, and she says that runners really like the feel of the Peloton, that it's easier to run on than a regular belt. I couldn't tell you exactly why though, maybe it's got some give to it, like a thick rubber mat instead of a thin one?
- racl101 5y agoThese guys blew it. They should've sent guys to add guards to these things. It would've been cheaper than the recall and the lawsuits they might have to deal with now. These fucking things could suck up a small dog and mangle the shit out if it if not downright spit back out pieces. Imagine overpaying for a treadmill to begin with and it has a huge, possibly deadly design flaw. Seriously, WTF. Stick with your Precor treadmills people. Proven, cheaper and every bit as good.
- mox1 5y agoHow is this not a defect in every treadmill? I have never been on a treadmill that has a "rear guard". How / what does Precor do to prevent this? (Beyond mostly existing in health clubs where small children and dogs are not allowed..)
- wayoutthere 5y agoThe smooth belt doesn’t catch on things the way a slatted belt does. The slats turn a case of rug burn into traumatic injuries.
- alistairSH 5y agoMany Precor models do have a rear guard. Seen here: https://www.amazon.com/Precor-TRM-932i-Commercial-Treadmill/dp/B00DJ36YHI https://www.amazon.com/Precor-TRM-932i-Commercial-Treadmill/... The roller/belt design also appears different - much smaller rollers and a smoother belt on Precor models. Not idea if that contributes, but it might.
- Raidion 5y agoThink of a treadmill as a tank tread, just kept off the ground. If the treadmill touches something in the back, it get's traction and will will try to "ride" that arm/hand/person/dog, pushing the treadmill backwards and even more onto the item stuck underneath. Most treadmills have a sort of bar/slat that prevents larger objects from being sucked too deeply under the treadmill. This means that while you can totally get your hand or arm stuck, the whole treadmill isn't going to be able to suck you under because you're going to get jammed up against that bar/slat eventually. You'd have to go under that bar (which is basically at floor level) to get into the same situation that happens 3 inches off the floor on a Peloton treadmill. Google treadmills and find a shot from behind the treadmill like you're walking up to use it. You'll be able to see the bar. Look at the Peloton treadmill and there isn't any bar. I can say that some cheap treadmills don't have this, but they lack the elevation and power a Peloton treadmill will have. Looking at the design, I can almost promise you they left it off for aesthetics, lots of treadmills are "boxy" because they provide a guard at floor level all the way around. Peloton's looks like an elevated tank tread, which is cool, but... no guards.
- unixhero 5y agoI for one opted for a TechnoGym spinning bike in my home. I have never regrettd it. Using it with Zwift on my Android Phone has been so much fun. If I had the space, I would have purchased a Technogym treadmill also. World class stuff.
- ertemplin 5y agoDoesn't the equivalent Technogym treadmill also have the same risk of pulling a child under it though? The design looks very similar to the Peloton treadmill: https://www.technogym.com/us/skillrun-performance-treadmill.html https://www.technogym.com/us/skillrun-performance-treadmill....
- unixhero 5y agoIt is a treadmill. Of course any pet or child playing around the running conveyor belt is at risk. TechnoGym products are of such incredible high quality, that I thought I'd mention them.
- Shadonototro 5y agohow come they could use the name Peloton? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peloton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peloton
- BugsJustFindMe 5y agoCompanies are allowed to use words that mean things as their names.
- Shadonototro 5y agoit's very scummy, making money and surfing on the popularity of a world known event to sell "faulty" bikes
- jaywalk 5y ago1. Their bikes are not faulty, this is about their (relatively new) treadmills. 2. I've never heard of the word "peloton" outside of this company until your post.
- function_seven 5y agoWhat event? As far as I know, "peloton" is a generic term to describe a grouping in any bicycle race.
- wlonkly 5y agoA peloton isn't an event, it's the group of cyclists in any cycling race. Since the original concept behind it is you're joining a group (class) on your exercise bike, it's a pretty appropriate name.
- chrisshroba 5y agoTrademark infringement (what I'm guessing you're asking about) only applies to other companies operating in the same space. There's no reason someone can't name their product after a common noun. Or even name their company the same thing as another company, but operate in another space (e.g. Despite the existence of Apple Computers, I could open Apple Dry Cleaners). Or am I misinterpreting your question?
- Cerium 5y agoDid they even complete an FMEA on this product? When I first saw the headline a couple months back it was obvious from looking at product photos that they have a serious design flaw. The wrap around, unguarded track looks great. The safety issue could very well be mitigated with a light fence and a break.
- m-ee 5y ago"Severity- 5/5, Risk 1/5. No corrective action recommended." I imagine a lot of contentious finger pointing between quality, product, and id happening right now.
- philistine 5y agoWatch the video linked in the article. It's harrowing. The pink ball saved that kids' life.