13 ms·

New book contends that Catch Me If You Can is mostly made up

351 points by spondyl 5y ago

jxf 5y ago
The article's tone is way stronger than "suggests". There are multiple quotes from people flat-out saying the whole mythology of Abagnale is fictitious.
dfadsadsf 5y ago
Where world is going? You can't even trust a conman anymore.
- toyg 5y ago
  Yeah - a convicted fraudster found lying and/or exaggerating tales? How could it be...?
  - seg_lol 5y ago
    Fool me once ... fool me over and over again, that is a subscription.
- lapetitejort 5y ago
  If a conman told me they were swindling me, I wouldn't believe them.
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
Catch Me if You Can is still a great movie, even if Abagnale lied about the whole thing. I mean, "inspired by a true story" or "based on a true story" movies already deviate pretty severely from history in many cases. Here's a question though: did the writers feel they had to stick somewhat close to the "truth?" Did it cause them to make some choices they might not have if they were writing about a totally fictitious conman? And, if indeed those things happened, would the movie have been even better if they had total freedom? Or did the movie thrive in part due to its constraints? All unanswerables of course but an interesting train of thought. Reminds me of how the first three Star Wars films are the best despite their limited budget and Lucas' relatively constrained freedom of direction.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  From the article it doesn’t really sound like the story had any basis in truth at all. The movie was simply “based on a story” or “inspired by a story”.
  - swiley 5y ago
    I didn't enjoy the movie because it was true, I enjoyed it because it was executed well and John Williams wrote the score. It could be entirely fictional and still be just as good a movie.
    - LargeWu 5y ago
      Confessions of a Dangerous Mind is in the same category. I don't really care if any of it was true, they're both phenomenal flicks.
      - DonHopkins 5y ago
        Don't you believe that Chuck Barris, host of the Gong Show, secretly worked as an assassin for the CIA??! Next you're going to tell me that The Unknown Comic wasn't really unknown, and his name was actually Murray Langston. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_Comic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_Comic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BBZVQ4zBcU&ab_channel=RBArchives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BBZVQ4zBcU&ab_channel=RBArc...
- nashashmi 5y ago
  Right. They were the people who investigated the story first. And they didn’t catch the lie? Maybe they were in on it too.
- DubiousPusher 5y ago
  > Catch Me if You Can is still a great movie, even if Abagnale lied about the whole thing. I mean, "inspired by a true story" or "based on a true story" movies already deviate pretty severely from history in many cases. I think this crosses a line. It's not a matter of reordering events or combining characters or even inventing small events to drive home a conceptual point. All of those are fairly accepted in the memoir and historical drama genres as changes which seek to clarify. Essentially, it's ok to misrepresent the facts of the truth if it's helping communicate the spirit of the truth. If what this author is alleging is true, then whole aspects of Abengale's story and ethos are totally fabricated. For example, a big part of Abengale's story is how he used his abilities as an autodidact to outwit the heavy handed systems of professional credentialism (becoming a pilot, a doctor, a lawyer). Once having pulled the wool over the eyes of the elite, he fleaced these wealthy suckers for no more than they could afford. In reality, he may have simply been a stalker, who leveraged people's kindness to steal considerable amounts of their small nest egg. That's a pretty different story. Because it fundamentally changes Abengale's relationship to his victims. What he is doing goes from being bold and clever and reckless to being predatory and petty and cruel.
jack_riminton 5y ago
In reality he seems more of a small-time crook and a big-time creep. Arrested mainly for steeling from families while dressed as a pilot and a kids camp. From Wikipedia: "Abagnale was in fact in the United States Navy from December 1964 through February 1965. Following his release from Great Meadow Prison on Dec 24, 1968, Abagnale was re-arrested on Feb 14, 1969, in Baton Rouge after victimizing a local family and small business. He told the Parks family of Baton Rouge he was a TWA pilot on furlough while he stayed with them. While their backs were turned he rifled through their belongings and stole their personal checks. This is the first reference to Abagnale committing a crime dressed as a pilot. Abagnale was convicted and sentenced for theft and forgery from the Parks family and a local small business (Dolley and Son) in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, in June, 1969 (State of Louisiana vs. Frank W. Abagnale. Case #69.103 and Case #69.104). Abagnale fled his supervised probation and court-ordered psychiatric treatment and in August, 1969, he victimized two local families in Klippan, Sweden, while dressed as a TWA pilot (Swedish national Archives, Case #B -195/70). Within a month, Abagnale was arrested in Montpellier, France, and served 3 months in Perpigan prison. He was extradited to Sweden and was sentenced to two months in Malmo jail. After deportation to the United States, Abagnale secured a Pan American Airlines uniform. In the summer of 1970, at 22 years old, Abagnale began a three-month period where he wrote 10 personal checks with a Pan American Airlines logo attached. Targets included small businesses such as Hales Camera in Provo, Utah, and Pilgrim Dry Cleaner in Houston. On November 2, 1970, Abagnale was arrested in Cobb County, Georgia. This three-month period is the basis of his self-promotion as the world's greatest imposter. Federal court records show that Abagnale was convicted for the 10 Pan American Airlines checks in five States (Texas, Arizona, Utah, California and North Carolina), worth a grand total of less than US$1,500 (United States of America vs. Frank W. Abagnale. Southern District of Georgia. For the US, J. Owen Forrester, Docket #s 26829, 26814, 26797, 26793, 26734, 26733, 26706, 26689). Following parole, he claimed he went to work for the FBI. However, he was arrested in the summer of 1974 in Friendswood, Texas, for theft at a kids' camp, Camp Manison. This arrest was noted in the local paper (Houston man arrested for Camp Manison theft. The News (Friendswood, Texas). 1974;Thursday 5 Sep,Page 1). Combined, the NPR article, and the separate article in the Louisiana Voice, and the detailed, 350-reference book The Greatest Hoax on Earth, debunk Abagnale's many claims, and refute his long-standing claim that he "never, ever" ripped off an individual or small business.[33] There is no evidence that he was ever nicknamed The Skywayman, nor that he was ever on any wanted list of the FBI."
bkandel 5y ago
Abagnale says himself that "Catch Me If You Can" is mostly fiction: > I was interviewed by the co-writer only about four times. I believe he did a great job of telling the story, but he also over dramatized and exaggerated some of the story. That was his style and what the editor wanted. ETA: It's not like the version on his website is likely true either, just saying that questions about the veracity of the story have been around for a very long time and have been strong enough that he's backed away from a lot of the claims in the book. https://www.abagnale.com/comments.htm https://www.abagnale.com/comments.htm
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- DubiousPusher 5y ago
  I don't think those cases are very exhonerating. When asked to comment on what is or isn't true Abengale has cited mundane facts like the number of siblings he has. He has done much to imply the more fanciful stories are indeed based in some truth which this author does an excellent job of using documents to disprove. In fact, most of the more extraordinary episodes in the film such as him passing bar or running a hospital come directly from his book which is supposedly an autobiography.
- jccalhoun 5y ago
  Yes, the article states that as early as 1978 an article in the SF Chronicle debunked many of his claims.
gonzus 5y ago
I would have thought that the claim that Frank Abagnale passed the bar exam would be easy to check -- there have to be records about those, right?
- diamondap 5y ago
  Yes. The author contacted the actual Louisiana attorney general with whom Abagnale claimed to have worked. The AG said Abagnale never worked there. The author also dug up the records of the bad checks Abagnale wrote against the airlines. He was a clever forger, and the airlines went after him, but the total bad checks came to only around $1200. And Abagnale was busted by a small town cop after passing one of those checks. The FBI didn't even have him on their radar. All his exploits were small-time cons, and he often got caught. The author does a really good job of documenting all this with primary sources (arrest and prison records, etc.), secondary sources (news articles from the 1970s) and with interviews with people who were actually with Abagnale during some of the supposed exploits in the 60s and 70s. Overall, it's good, thorough journalism. I wrote a brief review at https://adiamond.me/2021/03/the-greatest-hoax-on-earth-alan-logan/ https://adiamond.me/2021/03/the-greatest-hoax-on-earth-alan-..., but the WHYY review is more thorough. And, BTW, I loved the movie. As author Logan points out, one reason con men can con is because people would much rather believe an exciting romantic story than a mundane and disappointing one.
  - dhosek 5y ago
    >people would much rather believe an exciting romantic story than a mundane and disappointing one. The central premise of The Life of Pi
    - gota 5y ago
      Which, by the way, has a plagiarized premise from an older book
    - rkuykendall-com 5y ago
      Maybe an unpopular opinion, but this is one of the few films that due to a few small cuts and tweaks, is so much better than the book it makes it not worth reading.
Jiocus 5y ago
> “I remember just having this nagging feeling and that something just wasn’t quite right about [the movie ‘Catch Me If You Can’],” Logan said. “And that was that.” A reasonable perspective to have about every dramatized based-on-a-true-story blockbuster, you'd think.
Grustaf 5y ago
“One of the greatest hoaxes”? Because they turned his story into a film? Seems like a pretty insignificant hoax compared to the likes of Madoff, Adam Neumann or Theranos.
- OmarShehata 5y ago
  This seems like a pretty big hoax if you made an entire career out if appearing on national TV and giving talks at places like Google for life experiences you completely made up.
  - shawabawa3 5y ago
    If the worst thing about your hoax is you end up entertaining people it's not too bad
- pembrook 5y ago
  Neumann, while being a slippery self-dealer, certainly doesn’t belong in the same sentence as Madoff and Theranos. Building a real, albeit overvalued company isn’t the same as running a massive fraud from first principles. WeWork’s model for scalable cloud office space is now basically the default, and post-pandemic they are already selling seats to corporates like gangbusters.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    You’re right, WeWork is not a hoax. But it’s a coup!
tartoran 5y ago
What would stop Frank W. Abagnale, a conman by profession, from telling another lie? Even though Frank in the book is sympathized by the reader, I'm still disgusted by these deceivers who most likely are lacking all empathy and possibly are also psychopathic or narcissistic
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  The real problem is there are people who will no doubt believe him anyway.
- the-dude 5y ago
  Why are you so upset with somebody lying? In your words, liers are monsters. I lie occasionally. Sometimes enjoy it too.
  - tartoran 5y ago
    Im talking about deceivers who do it to take advantage of other people’s goodwill and kindness. They are cheaters who abuse the system, why would I give them a green pass? And this type of people Im taking about would not stop short from absolutely anything at all from reaching their goals, including turning against their families and best friends. If you don’t think these people are monsters then I don’t know what to tell you..
    - the-dude 5y ago
      Ah well. Still no monsters IMHO. Maybe they serve a purpose, just like people who speed a bit on the highway are beneficial to the traffic flow.
      - tartoran 5y ago
        Ok, you don’t know what Im talking about then. Wait till you deal with one and you’re likely to change your opinion. They’re absolutely nothing like highway speeders or little lies tellers. They are monsters who instead of having scales, hooves and horns, have a very good image, which they care a lot about because that’s what enables them to find victims and enablers to prop them up
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
slver 5y ago
That's OK because I assume that's the case for all movies "based on a true story". Take any biopic you want, it's mostly a bunch of mythology sprinkled with meme references about the person, if any. Say this was especially egregious in the Steve Jobs biopic, which had almost nothing to do with reality, except being a "best hits" of various memes spread about the man throughout the years, combined with copious amount of Sorkinisms.
- lupire 5y ago
  The article is ambiguous, perhaps because the debunker didn't read the memoir(?!), but it's not clear where the original memoir survives the debunking. This is an important unsettled point.
  - mfer 5y ago
    Abnagale has stated (linked elsewhere in the thread) that this is all based on his story but not a biography. It's not a memoir.
- quietbritishjim 5y ago
  Another great example is Bohemian Rhapsody, which seems to bearly have any true content. Pitch Meetings [1] (not exactly a serious review but very enjoyable) describes the film as recreations of some Queen performances with lies sprinkled in between. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RajlWbY7uQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RajlWbY7uQ
  - napolux 5y ago
    As a Queen fan myself I think the movie was just a way for Brian May and Roger Taylor to cash on Freddie's legacy. It's full of wrong facts and misplaced events (most famous is the HIV positivity disclosed before Live Aid (1985), Freddie discovered his positivity in 1987) and John Deacon role was taken to the minimum level. They won 5 oscars.
    - smcl 5y ago
arketyp 5y ago
This reminds me of the "Based on a true story" in the Coen brothers' Fargo. Looked at as an artistic effect, these (non-)facts elevate the Spielberg movie by adding a meta twist. Makes it even better in my opinion.
- tibbydudeza 5y ago
  Recall there was a mentally ill woman from Japan (they made a movie about her as well ) who came to look for the buried suitcase.
  - xsmasher 5y ago
    The protagonist in "Kumiko, the Treasure Hunter" came to look for the buried suitcase; that was based on an urban legend about the real suicide of Takako Konishi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi It's lies all the way down!
jrochkind1 5y ago
There's something hilarious about a guy getting rich and famous for lying and tricking people for profit, when it turns out he got rich and famous by... lying and tricking people for profit in a different way? I mean, complaining about being taken advantage of sounds pretty silly, it's not like he didn't tell you he was a liar who tricked people for profit!
- rasfincher 5y ago
  Con man turns out to be con man. Granted the con isn't as glamorous at it was made out to be, but still a pretty effective con.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    Even better, the actual con may not be illegal in any way? Not sure. Depending on nature of any contracts he signed, perhaps a contract violation with civil liability? Big reward small risk, compared to what he had claimed to do!
    - anonyxyz 5y ago
      I mean, he still probably forged checks, no?
- sopooneo 5y ago
  Similar to many famous "how to get rich" advisors.
  - offtop5 5y ago
    Get rich advisors, life style coaches, dating coaches. I don't really have respect for people who haven't actually accomplished anything aside from a grift. I do read books like Principals by Ray Dalio or I Love Capitalism! by Ken Langone.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
zzzeek 5y ago
I thought the most important thing about the movie was that he was very good at forging checks and later helped the financial industry make checks more secure. is that part true? didnt have time to read the whole article.
- scythmic_waves 5y ago
  It appears to be a lie. Or, at least, it hasn't been confirmed by the FBI as per my reading: > “No one from the FBI has ever made a public statement about what Abagnale has or hasn’t done for them,” Logan said. “He has given some guest lectures at the academy, but he makes these outlandish statements in the media. He’s claimed to teach ethics at the FBI.” > Abagnale sticks by his stories, continuing to tell and retell them even today. > “Go to YouTube, you will see the Talks at Google that Abagnale did not that long ago. That video has been viewed over 11 million times. And he makes the claim there, still, that he was an attorney general and passed the bar exam.” > In the video, Abagnale claims that the FBI included in its 100th anniversary coffee table book a section that identifies him as the only person ever sprung out of the federal penitentiary to work for the agency. > “And I just recently … picked up a copy. There is, indeed, a beautiful coffee table book printed and published by the FBI. And Mr. Abagnale’s name, as you might suspect, is nowhere to be found within it.”
mihaaly 5y ago
So? Then it fits the story well.
alfl 5y ago
Reminds me of Woody Harrelson's character from A Scanner Darkly (paraphrased): "He didn't actually impersonate anyone, he just posed as a world famous imposter." [0] [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIRiDuXTT6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIRiDuXTT6g
tchalla 5y ago
Frank Abnagale's Comments on the movie and book (2002) [0]. I don't know if his story is true or not. But regardless of his story, his talk at Google is one of the best ones I've heard [1]. > I was interviewed by the co-writer only about four times. I believe he did a great job of telling the story, but he also over dramatized and exaggerated some of the story. That was his style and what the editor wanted. He always reminded me that he was just telling a story and not writing my biography. This is one of the reasons that from the very beginning, I insisted the publisher put a disclaimer in the book and tapes. [0] https://www.abagnale.com/comments.htm https://www.abagnale.com/comments.htm [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMydMDi3rI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMydMDi3rI
- OmarShehata 5y ago
  They reference this talk in the article. I also used to think it was an amazing talk...too bad it's almost entirely fiction.
- hcrisp 5y ago
  I read the book when I was younger and later watched the Google talk. I remember thinking as I watched the talk that things just didn't add up. A simple search online could not verify that he had ever worked with the FBI. His answers in the Q&A seemed shallow. He admitted elsewhere that his book is lacking verisimilitude. I was left with the strong feeling that, "He's probably still just pulling a con!"
Simplicitas 5y ago
A nothingburger that proves the nothingburger?
cf 5y ago
It's a shame we are dwelling on a not particularly skilled conman when there are movies like Chameleon Street about a better skilled conman who if anything is more impressive in what he got away with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chameleon_Street https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chameleon_Street
residualmind 5y ago
From the screenplay of A Scanner Darkly (I don't know if something similar is in the original PKD story) ERNIE LUCKMAN ... this guy appeared on tv, claiming to be a world-famous imposter. He said he'd posed at one time or another as a great surgeon, a theoretical submolecular high-velocity particle research physicist, a Finnish novelist, a deposed president of Argentina... BOB ARCTOR He got away with it? Never got caught? ERNIE LUCKMAN See, the guy never really posed as any of it. He only posed as a worldfamous imposter. Turns out he just pushed a broom at Disneyland, until he read about this actual world-famous imposter, and he thought, I can pose as all those things, then he thought, hell, I'll just pose as an imposter. Save a lot of time, a lot easier. Made almost as much money as the real imposter with books and movie rights.
- e12e 5y ago
  I don't remember - but looks like something similar is in the book: https://books.google.no/books?id=EBAcBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT125&dq=Scanner+darkly+Dick+impostor&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-p7Hh3LLwAhUKt4sKHaC7AwUQ6wEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=Scanner%20darkly%20Dick%20impostor&f=false https://books.google.no/books?id=EBAcBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT125&dq=Sc...
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  Sounds like a plot from Stanisław Lem's fictitious criticism of nonexistent books! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem%27s_fictitious_criticism_of_nonexistent_books https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem%27s_fictiti... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Literature_in_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Literature_in_the_America...
- singlow 5y ago
  Pretty close to the original: --- from the book --- "--this guy," Luckman was saying, manicuring a box full of grass, hunched over it as Arctor sat across from him, more or less watching, "appeared on TV claiming to be a world-famous impostor. He had posed at one time or another, he told the interviewer, as a great surgeon at Johns Hopkins Medical College, a theoretical submolecular highvelocity particle-research physicist on a federal grant at Harvard, as a Finnish novelist who'd won the Nobel Prize in literature, as a deposed president of Argentina married to--" "And he got away with all that?" Arctor asked. "He never got caught?" "The guy never posed as any of those. He never posed as anything but a worldfamous impostor. That came out later in the L.A. _Times_--they checked up. The guy pushed a broom at Disneyland, or had until he read this autobiography about this worldfamous impostor--there really was one--and he said, 'Hell, I can pose as all those exotic dudes and get away with it like he did,' and then he decided, 'Hell, why do that; I'll just pose as another impostor.' He made a lot of bread that way, the _Times_ said. Almost as much as the real world-famous impostor. And he said it was a lot easier." --- One of my favorites from PKD. The movie was actually a really good representation of the book.
Havoc 5y ago
Always reminded me of the series the pretender. And there it did seems far fetched. Not sure why I never connected the dots in the movie. I guess being told it’s a true story is powerful
Tycho 5y ago
Reminds me of that film, The Iceman about the self-proclaimed hitman Richard Kuklinski. Claims to have killed between 100 and 200 people. Been the subject of many documentaries and research into psychopathy. I heavily suspect he's just a small-time crook who had a fight/dispute with his partners in crime, went to jail for their murder, and then spun a yarn about being a big-time mafia contract killer. Why? Perhaps to boslter his reputation in prison, maybe to get money for his family, maybe just for kicks.
reilly3000 5y ago
I saw Frank Abigail speak at a tech conference and feel his talk was the best I’ve ever heard. He’s spent the majority of his career at the FBI working major fraud and counterfeit cases. As an autodidact troubled teen, he learned the criminal mindset, then used that to help beat several generations schemes. He was clear that the film was mostly fiction so I’m not sure this book is revealing much, other than that Hollywood ‘true stories’ are the real imposter.
- notahacker 5y ago
  He was clear that the film was mostly fiction but evidently wasn't clear the same was true about his book and his work for the FBI...
jayspell 5y ago
I can't wait for this movie, it's gonna be great.
- swyx 5y ago
  New book contends that "the New book that contends that Catch Me If You Can is mostly made up" is mostly made up
beej71 5y ago
How do we know Abagnale and Logan aren't working together on a hoax hoax hoax? ;-)
Vaslo 5y ago
> Abagnale claimed that he never ripped off individuals, only hotels, airlines and banks. I love how that somehow suddenly makes stealing money on.
jccalhoun 5y ago
I have really started to get into The Pulse. It is a great mix of (mostly health) science reporting and more narrative shows like This American Life. I find myself not wanting to listen to it because it is often about serious topics but every time I do I get sucked in and really enjoy it.
cryptofistMonk 5y ago
Does this make him a better or worse con man?
lqet 5y ago
If you are interested in a real imposter who succeeded multiple times in working as a physician without any training at all and who was nearly made a professor, look at Gert Postel [0]. If you understand German, there is also a great documentary about him on YouTube [1]. A former postal employee, he named himself "Dr. med. Dr. phil. Clemens Bartholdy" and first worked as a public health officer in Flensburg. > When asked about his dissertation's subject, he reportedly replied "On pseudologia phantastica [with regard to] the example of the character Felix Krull from the homonymous novel by Thomas Mann and cognitively induced distortions in stereotypical judgment". Later, he worked as a surgeon major in the German armed forced, and several years as a senior physician in a psychiatric hospital, also giving lectures. > By chance, a co-worker recognised him on July 10, 1997, forcing him to go into hiding. At that time, an appointment was already set for an interview with Hans Geisler, then Saxony's Minister of State for social affairs, health and family, on the occasion of Postel's appointment to a professorship and to the position of chief of medicine at Saxony's hospital for psychiatry and neurology at Arnsdorf near Dresden. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2JqKLpEa4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2JqKLpEa4A
frabbit 5y ago
On the general theme of hoaxes: _The Yes Men Fix the World_ is hilarious https://archive.org/details/The.Yes.Men.Fix.The.World.P2P.Edition.2010.Xvid https://archive.org/details/The.Yes.Men.Fix.The.World.P2P.Ed...

351 points by spondyl 5y ago

jxf 5y ago

The article's tone is way stronger than "suggests". There are multiple quotes from people flat-out saying the whole mythology of Abagnale is fictitious.

dfadsadsf 5y ago

Where world is going? You can't even trust a conman anymore.

toyg 5y ago
Yeah - a convicted fraudster found lying and/or exaggerating tales? How could it be...?
- seg_lol 5y ago
  Fool me once ... fool me over and over again, that is a subscription.
lapetitejort 5y ago
If a conman told me they were swindling me, I wouldn't believe them.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

Catch Me if You Can is still a great movie, even if Abagnale lied about the whole thing. I mean, "inspired by a true story" or "based on a true story" movies already deviate pretty severely from history in many cases. Here's a question though: did the writers feel they had to stick somewhat close to the "truth?" Did it cause them to make some choices they might not have if they were writing about a totally fictitious conman? And, if indeed those things happened, would the movie have been even better if they had total freedom? Or did the movie thrive in part due to its constraints? All unanswerables of course but an interesting train of thought. Reminds me of how the first three Star Wars films are the best despite their limited budget and Lucas' relatively constrained freedom of direction.

elliekelly 5y ago
From the article it doesn’t really sound like the story had any basis in truth at all. The movie was simply “based on a story” or “inspired by a story”.
- swiley 5y ago
  I didn't enjoy the movie because it was true, I enjoyed it because it was executed well and John Williams wrote the score. It could be entirely fictional and still be just as good a movie.
  - LargeWu 5y ago
    Confessions of a Dangerous Mind is in the same category. I don't really care if any of it was true, they're both phenomenal flicks.
    - DonHopkins 5y ago
      Don't you believe that Chuck Barris, host of the Gong Show, secretly worked as an assassin for the CIA??! Next you're going to tell me that The Unknown Comic wasn't really unknown, and his name was actually Murray Langston. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_Comic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unknown_Comic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BBZVQ4zBcU&ab_channel=RBArchives https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BBZVQ4zBcU&ab_channel=RBArc...
nashashmi 5y ago
Right. They were the people who investigated the story first. And they didn’t catch the lie? Maybe they were in on it too.
DubiousPusher 5y ago
> Catch Me if You Can is still a great movie, even if Abagnale lied about the whole thing. I mean, "inspired by a true story" or "based on a true story" movies already deviate pretty severely from history in many cases. I think this crosses a line. It's not a matter of reordering events or combining characters or even inventing small events to drive home a conceptual point. All of those are fairly accepted in the memoir and historical drama genres as changes which seek to clarify. Essentially, it's ok to misrepresent the facts of the truth if it's helping communicate the spirit of the truth. If what this author is alleging is true, then whole aspects of Abengale's story and ethos are totally fabricated. For example, a big part of Abengale's story is how he used his abilities as an autodidact to outwit the heavy handed systems of professional credentialism (becoming a pilot, a doctor, a lawyer). Once having pulled the wool over the eyes of the elite, he fleaced these wealthy suckers for no more than they could afford. In reality, he may have simply been a stalker, who leveraged people's kindness to steal considerable amounts of their small nest egg. That's a pretty different story. Because it fundamentally changes Abengale's relationship to his victims. What he is doing goes from being bold and clever and reckless to being predatory and petty and cruel.

jack_riminton 5y ago

In reality he seems more of a small-time crook and a big-time creep. Arrested mainly for steeling from families while dressed as a pilot and a kids camp. From Wikipedia: "Abagnale was in fact in the United States Navy from December 1964 through February 1965. Following his release from Great Meadow Prison on Dec 24, 1968, Abagnale was re-arrested on Feb 14, 1969, in Baton Rouge after victimizing a local family and small business. He told the Parks family of Baton Rouge he was a TWA pilot on furlough while he stayed with them. While their backs were turned he rifled through their belongings and stole their personal checks. This is the first reference to Abagnale committing a crime dressed as a pilot. Abagnale was convicted and sentenced for theft and forgery from the Parks family and a local small business (Dolley and Son) in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, in June, 1969 (State of Louisiana vs. Frank W. Abagnale. Case #69.103 and Case #69.104). Abagnale fled his supervised probation and court-ordered psychiatric treatment and in August, 1969, he victimized two local families in Klippan, Sweden, while dressed as a TWA pilot (Swedish national Archives, Case #B -195/70). Within a month, Abagnale was arrested in Montpellier, France, and served 3 months in Perpigan prison. He was extradited to Sweden and was sentenced to two months in Malmo jail. After deportation to the United States, Abagnale secured a Pan American Airlines uniform. In the summer of 1970, at 22 years old, Abagnale began a three-month period where he wrote 10 personal checks with a Pan American Airlines logo attached. Targets included small businesses such as Hales Camera in Provo, Utah, and Pilgrim Dry Cleaner in Houston. On November 2, 1970, Abagnale was arrested in Cobb County, Georgia. This three-month period is the basis of his self-promotion as the world's greatest imposter. Federal court records show that Abagnale was convicted for the 10 Pan American Airlines checks in five States (Texas, Arizona, Utah, California and North Carolina), worth a grand total of less than US$1,500 (United States of America vs. Frank W. Abagnale. Southern District of Georgia. For the US, J. Owen Forrester, Docket #s 26829, 26814, 26797, 26793, 26734, 26733, 26706, 26689). Following parole, he claimed he went to work for the FBI. However, he was arrested in the summer of 1974 in Friendswood, Texas, for theft at a kids' camp, Camp Manison. This arrest was noted in the local paper (Houston man arrested for Camp Manison theft. The News (Friendswood, Texas). 1974;Thursday 5 Sep,Page 1). Combined, the NPR article, and the separate article in the Louisiana Voice, and the detailed, 350-reference book The Greatest Hoax on Earth, debunk Abagnale's many claims, and refute his long-standing claim that he "never, ever" ripped off an individual or small business.[33] There is no evidence that he was ever nicknamed The Skywayman, nor that he was ever on any wanted list of the FBI."

bkandel 5y ago

Abagnale says himself that "Catch Me If You Can" is mostly fiction: > I was interviewed by the co-writer only about four times. I believe he did a great job of telling the story, but he also over dramatized and exaggerated some of the story. That was his style and what the editor wanted. ETA: It's not like the version on his website is likely true either, just saying that questions about the veracity of the story have been around for a very long time and have been strong enough that he's backed away from a lot of the claims in the book. https://www.abagnale.com/comments.htm https://www.abagnale.com/comments.htm

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
DubiousPusher 5y ago
I don't think those cases are very exhonerating. When asked to comment on what is or isn't true Abengale has cited mundane facts like the number of siblings he has. He has done much to imply the more fanciful stories are indeed based in some truth which this author does an excellent job of using documents to disprove. In fact, most of the more extraordinary episodes in the film such as him passing bar or running a hospital come directly from his book which is supposedly an autobiography.
jccalhoun 5y ago
Yes, the article states that as early as 1978 an article in the SF Chronicle debunked many of his claims.

gonzus 5y ago

I would have thought that the claim that Frank Abagnale passed the bar exam would be easy to check -- there have to be records about those, right?

diamondap 5y ago
Yes. The author contacted the actual Louisiana attorney general with whom Abagnale claimed to have worked. The AG said Abagnale never worked there. The author also dug up the records of the bad checks Abagnale wrote against the airlines. He was a clever forger, and the airlines went after him, but the total bad checks came to only around $1200. And Abagnale was busted by a small town cop after passing one of those checks. The FBI didn't even have him on their radar. All his exploits were small-time cons, and he often got caught. The author does a really good job of documenting all this with primary sources (arrest and prison records, etc.), secondary sources (news articles from the 1970s) and with interviews with people who were actually with Abagnale during some of the supposed exploits in the 60s and 70s. Overall, it's good, thorough journalism. I wrote a brief review at https://adiamond.me/2021/03/the-greatest-hoax-on-earth-alan-logan/ https://adiamond.me/2021/03/the-greatest-hoax-on-earth-alan-..., but the WHYY review is more thorough. And, BTW, I loved the movie. As author Logan points out, one reason con men can con is because people would much rather believe an exciting romantic story than a mundane and disappointing one.
- dhosek 5y ago
  >people would much rather believe an exciting romantic story than a mundane and disappointing one. The central premise of The Life of Pi
  - gota 5y ago
    Which, by the way, has a plagiarized premise from an older book
  - rkuykendall-com 5y ago
    Maybe an unpopular opinion, but this is one of the few films that due to a few small cuts and tweaks, is so much better than the book it makes it not worth reading.

Jiocus 5y ago

> “I remember just having this nagging feeling and that something just wasn’t quite right about [the movie ‘Catch Me If You Can’],” Logan said. “And that was that.” A reasonable perspective to have about every dramatized based-on-a-true-story blockbuster, you'd think.

Grustaf 5y ago

“One of the greatest hoaxes”? Because they turned his story into a film? Seems like a pretty insignificant hoax compared to the likes of Madoff, Adam Neumann or Theranos.

OmarShehata 5y ago
This seems like a pretty big hoax if you made an entire career out if appearing on national TV and giving talks at places like Google for life experiences you completely made up.
- shawabawa3 5y ago
  If the worst thing about your hoax is you end up entertaining people it's not too bad
pembrook 5y ago
Neumann, while being a slippery self-dealer, certainly doesn’t belong in the same sentence as Madoff and Theranos. Building a real, albeit overvalued company isn’t the same as running a massive fraud from first principles. WeWork’s model for scalable cloud office space is now basically the default, and post-pandemic they are already selling seats to corporates like gangbusters.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  You’re right, WeWork is not a hoax. But it’s a coup!

tartoran 5y ago

What would stop Frank W. Abagnale, a conman by profession, from telling another lie? Even though Frank in the book is sympathized by the reader, I'm still disgusted by these deceivers who most likely are lacking all empathy and possibly are also psychopathic or narcissistic

matheusmoreira 5y ago
The real problem is there are people who will no doubt believe him anyway.
the-dude 5y ago
Why are you so upset with somebody lying? In your words, liers are monsters. I lie occasionally. Sometimes enjoy it too.
- tartoran 5y ago
  Im talking about deceivers who do it to take advantage of other people’s goodwill and kindness. They are cheaters who abuse the system, why would I give them a green pass? And this type of people Im taking about would not stop short from absolutely anything at all from reaching their goals, including turning against their families and best friends. If you don’t think these people are monsters then I don’t know what to tell you..
  - the-dude 5y ago
    Ah well. Still no monsters IMHO. Maybe they serve a purpose, just like people who speed a bit on the highway are beneficial to the traffic flow.
    - tartoran 5y ago
      Ok, you don’t know what Im talking about then. Wait till you deal with one and you’re likely to change your opinion. They’re absolutely nothing like highway speeders or little lies tellers. They are monsters who instead of having scales, hooves and horns, have a very good image, which they care a lot about because that’s what enables them to find victims and enablers to prop them up

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

slver 5y ago

That's OK because I assume that's the case for all movies "based on a true story". Take any biopic you want, it's mostly a bunch of mythology sprinkled with meme references about the person, if any. Say this was especially egregious in the Steve Jobs biopic, which had almost nothing to do with reality, except being a "best hits" of various memes spread about the man throughout the years, combined with copious amount of Sorkinisms.

lupire 5y ago
The article is ambiguous, perhaps because the debunker didn't read the memoir(?!), but it's not clear where the original memoir survives the debunking. This is an important unsettled point.
- mfer 5y ago
  Abnagale has stated (linked elsewhere in the thread) that this is all based on his story but not a biography. It's not a memoir.
quietbritishjim 5y ago
Another great example is Bohemian Rhapsody, which seems to bearly have any true content. Pitch Meetings [1] (not exactly a serious review but very enjoyable) describes the film as recreations of some Queen performances with lies sprinkled in between. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RajlWbY7uQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RajlWbY7uQ
- napolux 5y ago
  As a Queen fan myself I think the movie was just a way for Brian May and Roger Taylor to cash on Freddie's legacy. It's full of wrong facts and misplaced events (most famous is the HIV positivity disclosed before Live Aid (1985), Freddie discovered his positivity in 1987) and John Deacon role was taken to the minimum level. They won 5 oscars.
  - smcl 5y ago

arketyp 5y ago

This reminds me of the "Based on a true story" in the Coen brothers' Fargo. Looked at as an artistic effect, these (non-)facts elevate the Spielberg movie by adding a meta twist. Makes it even better in my opinion.

tibbydudeza 5y ago
Recall there was a mentally ill woman from Japan (they made a movie about her as well ) who came to look for the buried suitcase.
- xsmasher 5y ago
  The protagonist in "Kumiko, the Treasure Hunter" came to look for the buried suitcase; that was based on an urban legend about the real suicide of Takako Konishi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi It's lies all the way down!

jrochkind1 5y ago

There's something hilarious about a guy getting rich and famous for lying and tricking people for profit, when it turns out he got rich and famous by... lying and tricking people for profit in a different way? I mean, complaining about being taken advantage of sounds pretty silly, it's not like he didn't tell you he was a liar who tricked people for profit!

rasfincher 5y ago
Con man turns out to be con man. Granted the con isn't as glamorous at it was made out to be, but still a pretty effective con.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  Even better, the actual con may not be illegal in any way? Not sure. Depending on nature of any contracts he signed, perhaps a contract violation with civil liability? Big reward small risk, compared to what he had claimed to do!
  - anonyxyz 5y ago
    I mean, he still probably forged checks, no?
sopooneo 5y ago
Similar to many famous "how to get rich" advisors.
- offtop5 5y ago
  Get rich advisors, life style coaches, dating coaches. I don't really have respect for people who haven't actually accomplished anything aside from a grift. I do read books like Principals by Ray Dalio or I Love Capitalism! by Ken Langone.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago

zzzeek 5y ago

I thought the most important thing about the movie was that he was very good at forging checks and later helped the financial industry make checks more secure. is that part true? didnt have time to read the whole article.

scythmic_waves 5y ago
It appears to be a lie. Or, at least, it hasn't been confirmed by the FBI as per my reading: > “No one from the FBI has ever made a public statement about what Abagnale has or hasn’t done for them,” Logan said. “He has given some guest lectures at the academy, but he makes these outlandish statements in the media. He’s claimed to teach ethics at the FBI.” > Abagnale sticks by his stories, continuing to tell and retell them even today. > “Go to YouTube, you will see the Talks at Google that Abagnale did not that long ago. That video has been viewed over 11 million times. And he makes the claim there, still, that he was an attorney general and passed the bar exam.” > In the video, Abagnale claims that the FBI included in its 100th anniversary coffee table book a section that identifies him as the only person ever sprung out of the federal penitentiary to work for the agency. > “And I just recently … picked up a copy. There is, indeed, a beautiful coffee table book printed and published by the FBI. And Mr. Abagnale’s name, as you might suspect, is nowhere to be found within it.”

mihaaly 5y ago

So? Then it fits the story well.

alfl 5y ago

Reminds me of Woody Harrelson's character from A Scanner Darkly (paraphrased): "He didn't actually impersonate anyone, he just posed as a world famous imposter." [0] [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIRiDuXTT6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIRiDuXTT6g

tchalla 5y ago

Frank Abnagale's Comments on the movie and book (2002) [0]. I don't know if his story is true or not. But regardless of his story, his talk at Google is one of the best ones I've heard [1]. > I was interviewed by the co-writer only about four times. I believe he did a great job of telling the story, but he also over dramatized and exaggerated some of the story. That was his style and what the editor wanted. He always reminded me that he was just telling a story and not writing my biography. This is one of the reasons that from the very beginning, I insisted the publisher put a disclaimer in the book and tapes. [0] https://www.abagnale.com/comments.htm https://www.abagnale.com/comments.htm [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMydMDi3rI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMydMDi3rI

OmarShehata 5y ago
They reference this talk in the article. I also used to think it was an amazing talk...too bad it's almost entirely fiction.
hcrisp 5y ago
I read the book when I was younger and later watched the Google talk. I remember thinking as I watched the talk that things just didn't add up. A simple search online could not verify that he had ever worked with the FBI. His answers in the Q&A seemed shallow. He admitted elsewhere that his book is lacking verisimilitude. I was left with the strong feeling that, "He's probably still just pulling a con!"

Simplicitas 5y ago

A nothingburger that proves the nothingburger?

cf 5y ago

It's a shame we are dwelling on a not particularly skilled conman when there are movies like Chameleon Street about a better skilled conman who if anything is more impressive in what he got away with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chameleon_Street https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chameleon_Street

residualmind 5y ago

From the screenplay of A Scanner Darkly (I don't know if something similar is in the original PKD story) ERNIE LUCKMAN ... this guy appeared on tv, claiming to be a world-famous imposter. He said he'd posed at one time or another as a great surgeon, a theoretical submolecular high-velocity particle research physicist, a Finnish novelist, a deposed president of Argentina... BOB ARCTOR He got away with it? Never got caught? ERNIE LUCKMAN See, the guy never really posed as any of it. He only posed as a worldfamous imposter. Turns out he just pushed a broom at Disneyland, until he read about this actual world-famous imposter, and he thought, I can pose as all those things, then he thought, hell, I'll just pose as an imposter. Save a lot of time, a lot easier. Made almost as much money as the real imposter with books and movie rights.

e12e 5y ago
I don't remember - but looks like something similar is in the book: https://books.google.no/books?id=EBAcBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT125&dq=Scanner+darkly+Dick+impostor&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-p7Hh3LLwAhUKt4sKHaC7AwUQ6wEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=Scanner%20darkly%20Dick%20impostor&f=false https://books.google.no/books?id=EBAcBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT125&dq=Sc...
DonHopkins 5y ago
Sounds like a plot from Stanisław Lem's fictitious criticism of nonexistent books! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem%27s_fictitious_criticism_of_nonexistent_books https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem%27s_fictiti... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Literature_in_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Literature_in_the_America...
singlow 5y ago
Pretty close to the original: --- from the book --- "--this guy," Luckman was saying, manicuring a box full of grass, hunched over it as Arctor sat across from him, more or less watching, "appeared on TV claiming to be a world-famous impostor. He had posed at one time or another, he told the interviewer, as a great surgeon at Johns Hopkins Medical College, a theoretical submolecular highvelocity particle-research physicist on a federal grant at Harvard, as a Finnish novelist who'd won the Nobel Prize in literature, as a deposed president of Argentina married to--" "And he got away with all that?" Arctor asked. "He never got caught?" "The guy never posed as any of those. He never posed as anything but a worldfamous impostor. That came out later in the L.A. _Times_--they checked up. The guy pushed a broom at Disneyland, or had until he read this autobiography about this worldfamous impostor--there really was one--and he said, 'Hell, I can pose as all those exotic dudes and get away with it like he did,' and then he decided, 'Hell, why do that; I'll just pose as another impostor.' He made a lot of bread that way, the _Times_ said. Almost as much as the real world-famous impostor. And he said it was a lot easier." --- One of my favorites from PKD. The movie was actually a really good representation of the book.

Havoc 5y ago

Always reminded me of the series the pretender. And there it did seems far fetched. Not sure why I never connected the dots in the movie. I guess being told it’s a true story is powerful

Tycho 5y ago

Reminds me of that film, The Iceman about the self-proclaimed hitman Richard Kuklinski. Claims to have killed between 100 and 200 people. Been the subject of many documentaries and research into psychopathy. I heavily suspect he's just a small-time crook who had a fight/dispute with his partners in crime, went to jail for their murder, and then spun a yarn about being a big-time mafia contract killer. Why? Perhaps to boslter his reputation in prison, maybe to get money for his family, maybe just for kicks.

reilly3000 5y ago

I saw Frank Abigail speak at a tech conference and feel his talk was the best I’ve ever heard. He’s spent the majority of his career at the FBI working major fraud and counterfeit cases. As an autodidact troubled teen, he learned the criminal mindset, then used that to help beat several generations schemes. He was clear that the film was mostly fiction so I’m not sure this book is revealing much, other than that Hollywood ‘true stories’ are the real imposter.

notahacker 5y ago
He was clear that the film was mostly fiction but evidently wasn't clear the same was true about his book and his work for the FBI...

jayspell 5y ago

I can't wait for this movie, it's gonna be great.

swyx 5y ago
New book contends that "the New book that contends that Catch Me If You Can is mostly made up" is mostly made up

beej71 5y ago

How do we know Abagnale and Logan aren't working together on a hoax hoax hoax? ;-)

Vaslo 5y ago

> Abagnale claimed that he never ripped off individuals, only hotels, airlines and banks. I love how that somehow suddenly makes stealing money on.

jccalhoun 5y ago

I have really started to get into The Pulse. It is a great mix of (mostly health) science reporting and more narrative shows like This American Life. I find myself not wanting to listen to it because it is often about serious topics but every time I do I get sucked in and really enjoy it.

cryptofistMonk 5y ago

Does this make him a better or worse con man?

lqet 5y ago

If you are interested in a real imposter who succeeded multiple times in working as a physician without any training at all and who was nearly made a professor, look at Gert Postel [0]. If you understand German, there is also a great documentary about him on YouTube [1]. A former postal employee, he named himself "Dr. med. Dr. phil. Clemens Bartholdy" and first worked as a public health officer in Flensburg. > When asked about his dissertation's subject, he reportedly replied "On pseudologia phantastica [with regard to] the example of the character Felix Krull from the homonymous novel by Thomas Mann and cognitively induced distortions in stereotypical judgment". Later, he worked as a surgeon major in the German armed forced, and several years as a senior physician in a psychiatric hospital, also giving lectures. > By chance, a co-worker recognised him on July 10, 1997, forcing him to go into hiding. At that time, an appointment was already set for an interview with Hans Geisler, then Saxony's Minister of State for social affairs, health and family, on the occasion of Postel's appointment to a professorship and to the position of chief of medicine at Saxony's hospital for psychiatry and neurology at Arnsdorf near Dresden. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert_Postel [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2JqKLpEa4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2JqKLpEa4A

frabbit 5y ago

On the general theme of hoaxes: _The Yes Men Fix the World_ is hilarious https://archive.org/details/The.Yes.Men.Fix.The.World.P2P.Edition.2010.Xvid https://archive.org/details/The.Yes.Men.Fix.The.World.P2P.Ed...