22 ms·

I guess I have to watch ads everywhere on my $1,500 LG TV now

359 points by brundolf 6y ago

FullyFunctional 6y ago
This would make me absolutely explode. I can do the pihole route but I'd rather we had legal control over what's being displayed on our TVs.
- Myztiq 6y ago
  Most of these ads are actually built into the firmware, I have a pihole set up and I still get ads from my tv, sometimes even on startup there will be a new thing appearing in the corner. Next up is preventing it from accessing the internet entirely, but then I'd need to have a second remote to actually watch my content.
- cphajduk 6y ago
  Looking forward to jailbreaking my TV.
  - MikeUt 6y ago
    Illegal due to DMCA.
- TameAntelope 6y ago
  I turned the ads off in my LG TV, took 5 minutes and now it behaves exactly as a dumb TV would to my eyes. I’m surprised by this community’s refusal to spend even a small amount of time hacking on their TV. Maybe you think it should “just” work, but when is that ever the case?
  - progman32 6y ago
    My TVs "just" worked from the late 1980s until 2020, which is when I downgraded to a smart tv.
  - sodality2 6y ago
    Because 70% of the population will never bother doing that. And then it creeps higher, as people get used to it. "Sure it's opt out, that means it's not forced" is a horrible argument for an anti-consumer move. Wait until IP's are hardcoded and ads can't be turned off, on any consumer TV, because there's no more demand for dumb ones, and it maximizes profit.
    - TameAntelope 6y ago
      We've got folks here declaring they'd march into the store they bought their TV from and demand a refund. That's not a very hacker mindset, is my point. Also, technically speaking, what you've constructed is a fallacy. When something like what you described happens, nobody's going to use "but you were okay with not-this before, therefore you must be okay with this new thing!" I'll march into Best Buy right with you when I can't turn it off, but as long as I can, I'm probably just going to do that and move on with my life.
      - sodality2 6y ago
        >I'll march into Best Buy right with you when I can't turn it off, but as long as I can, I'm probably just going to do that and move on with my life. I mean, yeah, I did too, but I'm also writing letters to my reps for the people who don't know how to do that. >Also, technically speaking, what you've constructed is a fallacy. When something like what you described happens, nobody's going to use "but you were okay with not-this before, therefore you must be okay with this new thing!" I'm not saying you'd be okay with it, in fact I think your view is pretty reasonable. Personally I want to stop this sort of thing from being on by default, personalized tracking on nearly every TV, etc.
- novok 6y ago
  Legislation saying that "network off" settings need to be respected and the device needs to work as much as a possible without a network connection, on pain of 2x revenue + penalty from whatever agreements you made selling data would go a long way. No more cars that spy on you as you drive around when you turn of network services, no more TVs that spy on what you watch and so on.
  - b0tzzzzzzman 6y ago
    Rental cars .. Well cars in general used to have Aux ports. Not any more. And the default is always to sync contacts. Its out of hand.
  - titzer 6y ago
    What you sounds quite reasonable...from a consumer perspective. Laws are not written for consumers. You have no power and no voice and the vast majority of people are so completely checked out of reality that you are hopelessly outnumbered. Oh, and big business and government surveillance are both lined up on the other side. We are losing this one.
sokoloff 6y ago
Smart TV apps are largely terrible to start with. The $30 on-sale ($50 retail) Fire TV 4K Stick has been one of my highest bang-for-the-buck consumer purchases in a long time. It's a great Plex client, YouTube client, Netflix client, Prime Video client (of course), and quickly took over primary video source duties as soon as I installed it. The prior version (the not 4K one) struggled with even 1080p H265 decoding, but the 4K version handles H265 and all the other formats I've thrown at it just fine. Even when the TV was brand new, the apps on the TV were terrible (sluggish, disjointed UI, TV remote not comfortable to use as primary remote). 4 years later, they're not going to be any better, while the HDMI input sources can be easily and cheaply upgraded.
- varikin 6y ago
  I agree. I use a roku instead, but same result. I used the apps on my TV for a bit when I got it, but they would fail, like it had a memory leak if I watched something for over 3 hours. I don't trust telling the TV to disable wifi, so I just changed the wifi credentials on the TV to be incorrect. No problems anymore.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    Only a matter of time before they start downloading ads via OTA datastream. Could do rough geolocation by differential signal strengths/timing. TV could run code to infer gender/age/etc or just link it to the serial number of the purchaser and their address. Of course you didn’t get your 65” TV delivered to your own house, right? If it’s strictly one-way, ad purchasers may not know precisely how many “hits” they got, but could be inferred from the online TVs. To be determined if it’s worthwhile if almost everyone puts the TV online anyway, but if there’s a world where people don’t, you’ll still be almost as screwed.
    - withinboredom 6y ago
      I’m surprised they haven’t paid google to serve long term ads to offline TVs from their street view cars... or Tesla, or any car manufacturer probably parked in a close by garage and able to receive data ota
jb775 6y ago
We'll probably have ads in our dreams eventually, like in Futurama.
- swiley 6y ago
  Alternatively you could adopt the attitude people like RMS have and refuse to interact with manipulative software from lying companies.
  - smegger001 6y ago
    if i refused to interact with lying companies i think the only place i could do business is at the independent espresso stand a few miles away run by a senior lady and her cat.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      It doesn't have to be all or nothing. There's plenty of stuff you can reasonably do without significant inconvenience.
      - JanisL 6y ago
        The amount of things you can do seems to have been shrinking over the years though
eutropia 6y ago
This is why no TV in my house ever gets access to the wifi. If I must update it, it gets a temporary guest network.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Why would it need to be updated? Either it works, or it doesn't. If you're not using the "smart" parts, then it needs to just decode the damn HDMI signal. If it stops doing that to the point of needing an update, then things are terribly terribly wrong.
  - agent86 6y ago
    It works, but there are other levels of the stack between low level decoding HDMI and the "smart" parts. Without updates you might miss out on other improvements like decreased input lag, support for another format, and bugfixes for the existing implementations (i.e. the HDMI decoder strobes when specific configuration X is utilized). As a concrete example, Sony added HDR to one of their lines a year after it's original production a few years ago[1]. [1]https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00157695 https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00157695
vermilingua 6y ago
What's never mentioned in this brand of article is that $1,500 is probably quite low for the caliber of screen you get in a brand new TV. The state of the art has progressed significantly, while the cost of manufacturing hasn't dropped all that much; and yet the price of a new TV has held more or less constant, because it is subsidized by the income from ads. The problem isn't that the TVs show ads, it's that there is no option on the market for a non-homebrand TV that is fully functional but doesn't show ads. My guess is that manufacturers are afraid to sell this option because it then becomes trivial to flash the firmware from an adless TV onto an adful TV. (FWIW I hate nothing more than seeing ads on my TV outside broadcast)
- megablast 6y ago
  How much do you imagine ads pay?? Because it is a tiny amount. Cents. Not dollars.
  - arthur_sav 6y ago
    It's not just ads, they gather and sell data to other advertisers. This has a compounding effect over time, so i'd say it's very much lucrative.
    - novok 6y ago
      It also has little overhead compared to physical TVs.
- jng 6y ago
  My take is that ad revenue for TV manufacturers is next to nothing today, and it has zero impact on the cost of a TV set. But they're trying in case they can have access to a potentially huge revenue stream in the future. And my take is also that they won't do it well and they won't gain access to a revenue stream that only the likes of Google or Facebook are able to command and manage, but they will certainly annoy a huge amount of users along the way. Only convenient option here seems to be to not give connectivity to your TV set, or not have a TV set at all.
- 6y ago
random5634 6y ago
I'm using an Apple TV into a projector (which is not connected to the internet). I'm not getting ads through the Apple TV. I'm assuming there will be claims that whatever apple is doing to keep ads out and just have their own world is violating anti-trust, but I have to say I like it. They also do a weird aggregation thing across Amazon etc, so you have shows from multiple channels / service in one view. Not sure how that works, but from consumer side it is very nice.
- pridkett 6y ago
  Apple isn’t blocking ads here. They make their money through the hardware and additional devices, without the need to inject ads everywhere. If you use an ad supported service like Peacock or Hulu you’ll still see ads in the streams.
  - random5634 6y ago
    Ahh - very nice. I don't use hulu. I license movies I like on the itunes store if I'll be watching them a few times. And stream very lightly. I would not take it well to have to deal with ads on an expensive device, or even be forced to jump through hoops to turn them off. I'm sure Apple is leaving money on the table, but I'm very willing to pay the apple premium to have to worry a lot less about this type of total jerk behavior.
- brundolf 6y ago
  Apple (so far) has been very reliable about letting you give them extra cash for a mostly user-respecting experience, and that's the main reason I buy from them (and has made me happy with my Apple TV purchase) So as long as these built-in ads on the display can be disabled by disconnecting the thing from the internet, I can live with it. If they ever decide to make them work offline, or start embedding a cell antenna in the TV set, that's when I'll throw a real fit
  - r00fus 6y ago
    Isn't that where legislation is supposed to help?
edoceo 6y ago
Was just shopping for a new TV. But previous threads here about Smart TV have me currently browsing Baba for just a panel+hdmi inputs, then I can connect my own "smart"
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Look up "digital signage" displays. You'll pay a premium (of course), but often same panel, no tuner, no speaker, no smarts, just inputs.
Guzba 6y ago
I've never put a TV on my WiFi. That strikes me as an obviously bad idea. I guess people use the terrible built-in apps? It just seems like a series of poor choices to me. Crazy though that an expensive LG CX OLED would do that. I figured at least if you paid more for the TV it would show some tiny level of respect for the owner but clearly not. I know the various streaming sticks people use instead show ads too probably if it isn't an Apple TV but at least it is somewhat quarantined. Pretty crazy how antagonistic things are getting.
- bin_bash 6y ago
  My LG TV recently updated and gave me AirPlay 2 so it’s not all bad
- cosmotic 6y ago
  The LG versions of all the apps I've used are much better because it allows for cursor control and I feel it more reliably leads to HDR and 4k content.
  - notyourday 6y ago
    That's today. Who knows what is going to happen in 6 months. Edit: there are a lot of people with other smart TVs that progressively got more and more broken applications.
- lame-robot-hoax 6y ago
  It’s beneficial to use the built in apps on the OLEDs as they automatically play a screensaver when they notice content has been paused over a certain period of time. As well, no need to enable HDR etc for whatever device you are using instead of the built in apps. I just now setup my LG CX to run through NextDNS to block any ads because of this. Took only about five minutes.
  - 1MoreThing 6y ago
    IME, both Apple TV and Amazon Fire stick devices do this too.
syspec 6y ago
> We’re just going to cram ads into every corner of a TV’s software, huh? There are 12 ads active on this article, and at least 1 autoplaying video ad.
- Guzba 6y ago
  To be fair, they paid for the TV but you didn't pay for the article.
  - syspec 6y ago
    Hah! That is a good point!
  - daxelrod 6y ago
    And you _can_ pay for the article in a way that causes the site to stop serving ads. The Verge is part of Scroll, which is one of the services where you pay a monthly subscription fee to not see ads on their member sites. Not shilling (I have no affiliation other than being a subscriber), just thought it was relevant to the larger conversation about paying for things and ads.
- loloquwowndueo 6y ago
  Use an ad blocker. I don’t feel bad about not giving money to what is essentially a rant about a crappy tv. My life wouldn’t have changed in any way if I hadn’t read it.
  - nicbou 6y ago
    You don't selectively refuse to give money though. You block everything by default and then rationalise that the content sucked.
arafa 6y ago
Just let me pay more for a non-ads version. Worked just fine for Amazon Kindle products.
- peteretep 6y ago
  I'd like to see legislation that essentially said all ad-supported products of a certain size have to offer a non-ads version. Price is up to the product maker, but start forcing consumers to see what producers think their data and eyeballs is worth
arthurcolle 6y ago
This guy overpaid by a lot... I have a VIZIO QLED that is 65 inches that cost like $450 and looks like reality
- gnicholas 6y ago
  The author got an OLED, which is why it cost more than your TV.
- mav3rick 6y ago
  Vizio <<<<<< LG. Also OLED >>>> Anything (Don't say Plasma)
- ska 6y ago
  > QLED apples, meet oranges.
Bud 6y ago
I swear to God, if this happened with my TV I'd take it back to the store in whatever way I could find that would cost the manufacturer the most money. Intolerable. "Smart" TVs should be banned. Streaming devices or nothing. TVs should be dumb screens.
- swader999 6y ago
  Well if you could reformat them and load your own OS.
uncledave 6y ago
This is why I can’t bring myself to change out my 32” Samsung dumb TV. Every time I look elsewhere I see products which are worse even if I gain 4K and some more inches. Please someone just sell a 4K monitor in 43, 50 inch sizes with HDMI that actually works and decent speakers and I’ll buy it for 25% more than the equivalent sized smart tv.
- SavantIdiot 6y ago
  I hear ya. My 46" Samsung is from 2008. It stated to go wonky in 2013 and I googled and found I needed to literally cut a resistor off the board. It's been fine ever since. Fingers crossed.
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  The standard response would be to buy a commercial display, but you are looking at more than 25% higher prices. On the other hand, commercial displays theoretically are designed to be run nearly 24/7/365 and thus more durable, and many far more features than your standard television. Many NEC commercial displays, for example, have an expansion slot for a Raspberry Pi Compute Module. Wouldn’t that be fun?
  - nfoz 6y ago
    My "commercial display" series 55" 4k LG dumb tv from a few years ago (in Canada) was ~$150 cheaper than its featurewise-near-equivalent (except the smarts) Consumer-oriented smart TV at the time ($900 vs $1050 iirc). However I don't know if that product series has been updated / still available, and it may have been Canada only. But I'm not sure "commercial displays" are actually more expensive -- it might depend on the type and intended use-case.
- dylan604 6y ago
  The thinness really prevents decent speakers being part of the tv itself. You're essentially getting mobile device level speakers on a 40"+ screen. Then, they aren't even facing you. As much as I'd prefer a dumb TV, I'd also prefer a mute TV. Don't waste effort/money on putting something that nobody is seriously going to use.
boring_twenties 6y ago
Honestly not surprising. I bought a washing machine from LG a year or two ago. At first, I didn't bother even looking into its "connected" features, but recently I came into a spare iPhone that was just gathering dust, so I figured why not give it a shot, maybe there's something useful here. Holy hell. The app itself refuses to even attempt to connect to any device, unless granted Location Services permission. WTF? I mean, I expected spyware, I guess I just didn't expect them to be so god damn brazen about it. After that, it turns out the appliance itself refuses to stay connected to the wifi network unless it can phone home. Needless to say, it ignores both forms of proxy configuration (WPAD and DHCP option) as well. Give it direct Internet, or give it death.
- _mitch 6y ago
  If an app needs to connect to a Wi-Fi AP on the appliance, you have to allow location since having access to the Wi-Fi scan of networks that are in range can allow for some coarse geolocation, thanks to open source SSID databases [1]. I wish Android and iOS would add functionality that allowed an app to connect to a known SSID without access to the scan because the permission requirement is rightly off-putting. [1] https://wigle.net/map?maplat=37.76559999999937&maplon=-122.42459999999792&mapzoom=13&coloring=density https://wigle.net/map?maplat=37.76559999999937&maplon=-122.4...
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    I could be wrong but I don't think this is the case? Even after enabling the Location Services access, I still had to manually connect to the appliance's AP through the iOS Settings app.
  - bscphil 6y ago
    > I wish Android and iOS would add functionality that allowed an app to connect to a known SSID without access to the scan Would that really help that much? If you know the user's approximate area, e.g. by IP address, and their SSID is unique in that area, than if the app says to the OS "please connect to this SSID if it's available" and the connection happens, the app now has your location. I suppose that's a case for making location access more granular, not leaving things the way they are. But I bet people doing UIs for Google and Apple won't do that because the average user doesn't understand the possible location implications of giving away your SSID.
sophacles 6y ago
It sure would be nice to live in a world where I don't have to put conscious effort into minimizing the surveillance teams' knowledge of me when I want to sit back and relax, let alone do something interesting. I'm old enough to remember when I wasn't constantly being micro-analyzed - at the time I didn't realize it was a luxurious lifestyle I led, but in retrospect I sure do miss it. I know this site is full of ultra-capitalists, will you explain to me why I'm wrong for wanting to pay to not be tracked? Also, explain to me why the fruit of my existence is a resource to be harvested vs something I should be compensated for. I'm sure I'll be roasted super hard for this but very strong privacy laws seem to be a good idea - market effects be damned.
- Enginerrrd 6y ago
  I'm with you, particularly because there really AREN'T alternatives. Most try to blame consumers here for "not paying more", but the reality is there's a healthy pseudo-monopoly in most spheres of tech that we interact with in one form or another and true competition is rare.
beastman82 6y ago
Buy an nvidia shield and never look back
mwfunk 6y ago
It's been said many times here over the past few years, and it'll get said a lot right here today, but rule of thumb: never enable WiFi on a TV except maybe temporarily to do an update or something. And even then only if it's absolutely necessary. Get a Roku or an Apple TV or a game console or whatever you want for watching streaming services. Never use what's built in to the TV, not just for privacy reasons but because it always seems to be a terrible experience compared to running Hulu, Netflix, etc. on anything else. But for privacy too- the TV companies were incredibly egregious about privacy years ago and AFAICT it's only gotten worse since then.
- kitsunesoba 6y ago
  Some TVs allow firmware updates via USB thumb drive, which I think is a feature worth selecting for. This allowed me to get some bug fixes for my Sony Bravia TV that I would’ve had to live without had updates been online-only. Additionally, there are some models that come with nearly-stock Android TV that are easy to remove creepware from (just plug into laptop and remove with ADB) should one feel inclined to use built-in smarts. Personally I’ve been using an Apple TV and it’s served me well.
  - jasomill 6y ago
    I'd be willing to bet that all modern TVs support local offline firmware updates. Whether the actual firmware update binaries are readily available to non-commercial end users is another matter entirely (and of course equally important!). In the case of my recent-ish LG model, they are, and offline USB updates work fine.
- r00fus 6y ago
  Amazon Sidewalk is an effort to bypass your workaround of preventing network access to TV manufacturers' ad networks. Hopefully it fails like DIVX, but given there are 4G radios in most cars today, it probably will succeed. Soon appliances and other IoT will no longer be reliant on your say-so on what data it collects and when...
- _coveredInBees 6y ago
SavantIdiot 6y ago
I think the majority of the population is OK with ads everywhere and paying for multiple streaming channels for 5-10x more than basic cable from the 90's. If that's what customers want, or continue to buy, I guess that makes me a grumpy old man like the OP. Last year my 10+ year old Roku was EOL'd: it literally STOPPED working. Had I paid more than $50 for it, I'd probably be more miffed, but I think this is a consequence that will become more egregious if we continue to buy "smart" things. However it was getting less and less use because there's just nothing I'm interested in watching, or rather, I don't want to pay to click channels like I did in pre-2000. Every show I"m interested in requires a subscription to a new service, so I just said fuck it around 2012-2013 and stuck with Netflix DVDs, and then cancelled that in 2018. Now I rent an Amazon Prime flick once or twice a week for $2.99, which is about 12-24$/month.
- MikeUt 6y ago
  > I think the majority of the population is OK with ads everywhere You talk as if there was a $1800 ad-free TV on sale next to the ad-infested one. The majority isn't given a choice.
  - SavantIdiot 6y ago
    What? Just don't connect it to the internet. Unless this TV doesn't allow that? Agree with your point, there is little choice. I recall reading that there was a place to purchase bezel-less, stripped down TVs w/o the smarts, that are basically monitors without being the quality of monitors so they are cheap, and used for creating giant wall displays.
    - Daho0n 6y ago
      All modern hdmi cables support ethernet so unless the device in the other end of the cable is an older one the TV could still get internet. The fix is better laws. The exact same TV in Nordic version have an option to turn ads on (it defaults to off).
      - 6y ago
unixhero 6y ago
Anyone with experience from owning a recent Sony smart tv? Is it equally as bad as LG and Samsung when it comes to ads?
- brewdad 6y ago
  I rarely see the main interface since I mostly stream with a ShieldTV, so I can't really say anything about ads there. I did finally end up enabling wifi though. I kept it off for the first month but the TV got more and more aggressive about posting overlays that warned my that my TV did not have internet access. Even while streaming on an external device. It really took me out of the moment. I probably would have returned it at that point but my car isn't big enough to fit it and any other TV would probably end up the same way or worse.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Oh, that is so wrong. I don't want to know about not having internet access unless I asked it do something that required internet access. That's even more user hostile than I thought we had debased ourselves.
- tiew9Vii 6y ago
  I have a Sony X9500. I run a dns blocker on my router so it may be serving me ads but if it is I don't know. From my research I don't think the X9500 serves ads. I was quite pleased with upgrading to it from a dumb tv and cheap android tv box. It's faster than the android tv box I had, not suffered any bugs i saw on the android tv box. UI looks pretty much stock android tv, it has airplay and appletv which you don't get on android tv boxes. I'm happy with the purchase so far.
- agotterer 6y ago
  I’ve historical owned Samsung TVs and became so fed up with the bugs, the ads, and the uninstallable pre-installed apps. The most recent TV I purchased was a Sony X650H and I love it. It’s android based, the UI isn’t clunky, and I’ve never seen an Ad. I have no idea if they are tracking me behind the scenes. At this point I assume everyone is. But at least they aren’t ruining my viewing experience.
mav3rick 6y ago
Any idea what soundbar that is ? Is that a Sonos Arc ?
- gnicholas 6y ago
  Looks like it to me. I just unwrapped one in white, and the perforations on the front/top look like a match.
  - mav3rick 6y ago
    How you liking yours ? Got the rears or sub as well ?
    - gnicholas 6y ago
      I've literally had it for three hours, but my first impressions are: • The bass isn't as good as I'd been led to believe. If I were still a bachelor, I would get the sub (I didn't get either the sub or rear speakers) • The audio sync is blessedly ok for me. I had read some horror stories about this and was worried. I plug an iPhone/iPad into an projector via an Apple HDMI adaptor, and I use AirPlay for the sound. It's a split-second late, but it's acceptable for me. I may even be able to add some latency to my projector to fix this. • It seems like it really has to be sitting on top of a flat surface. I was planning to wall-mount mine, and right now I have it sitting centered on top of an old rectangular subwoofer. It doesn't sound great that way, but when I put the box it came in underneath it, it sounds much better. It seems to really change the acoustics, and I'm not sure how it'll sound wall-mounted, with nothing below it. I plan to call the company to inquire about this. The difference is very noticeable. • There is something loose in the speaker that makes it sound like either a cone is being blown out, or is already blown. Based on all their backorder/shipping delays (and what I've seen in forums), I'm guessing they've had Q/A issues in manufacturing. Hopefully this can be fixed without too much hassle. • Setup was really easy. It's my first Sonos, and I had it set up in about 10 minutes, including calibration (which seems to make a pretty big difference, though it could be all in my head). Feel free to contact me via email (in profile) if you want to hear as the story unfolds. I've been looking forward to getting this for a long time, and I'm cautiously optimistic so far.
dimal 6y ago
Luckily my LG smart TV's wifi is so crappy that it cannot stay connected to the internet for more than a few minutes, so I just use my Apple TV and never have to deal with this BS.
sunstone 6y ago
Only if you connect it to the internet.
walrus01 6y ago
never give your smart TV the wifi password or a connection to a 100/1000Mbps Ethernet port that will give it a DHCP address.
- Daho0n 6y ago
  Or a modern hdmi cable as they have ethernet?
  - walrus01 6y ago
    I'm aware HDMI can carry it, but how many people are plugging their TVs into things that issue them dhcp leases, and act as a gateway/router for a path to the internet? Probably some, it seems like a feature that comcast or others would build into cable boxes, but not many (yet).
atum47 6y ago
I've been thinking about that for a while now. Is there any legal basis for us to sue them? It's not only in smart TVs, but cellphones as well.
warunsl 6y ago
I own one of these. Although I am yet to see full blown video ads like the one the article mentions, I definitely see banner ads on the bottom left of the LG interface, every time I click on the home button to switch between TV apps. I do have FireTV 4K stick and an Apple TV 4K on HDMI inputs but I still prefer the apps on the TV. They are much better in terms of picture quality, no idea why. Even the Apple TV+ app on the TV looks better than the app on Apple TV!
- belltaco 6y ago
  It might be because of different display settings applied to different inputs.
- UpsilonAlpha 6y ago
  This is a shot in the dark, but it's possible your HDMI cables aren't fully supporting the 4K. I was having trouble with a 4K monitor not displaying properly and it turned out my HDMI cable was outdated. Replacing it with a DisplayPort fixed the issue. That being said, most modern HDMI cables should support 4K, but it's always good to check the hardware specs of the cable and the TV.
  - warunsl 6y ago
    That was my first suspicion. The cables definitely support 4K. I enabled diagnostics overlay on my FireTV and the resolution was definitely 4K and yet the picture looks washed off.
    - Daho0n 6y ago
      Go to settings, all settings, program tuning and on the first option there press 11111 and a diagnostic screen will show HDMI settings.
    - bscphil 6y ago
      Probably a software issue - the TV is reading the incoming SDR signal and treating it as Rec. 709 (the SDR standard) as opposed to Rec. 2020 (the HDR standard). Since the color primaries for Rec. 2020 are much wider, the values in the signal representing the "amount" of each color are smaller. If you then treat those numbers as in the SDR gamut, you get a washed out (less saturated) image. This is also just a shot in the dark, but matches your observations pretty well.
jonnycomputer 6y ago
I still have my circa 2007 television. It doesn't spy on me, and I don't care that they've gotten better. I spend most of my time in front of my 3 display iMac anyway.
anonymousiam 6y ago
I have the 65" version of the same set, but I have not yet been subjected to any ads on the LG app screens. I did notice last month that ads will pop up (and interrupt in-progress programs) if you switch to the LG provided channels (starting at 200 I think). I rarely look at those (or any broadcast content for that matter) anyway. Mostly the set is used for Netflix/Amazon Prime/Apple TV. This location has a pi-hole DNS for everything, so I may not bet getting all the ads they are trying to serve to me.
tiew9Vii 6y ago
That's strange, the LG CX series are the mid to premium range from LG being OLED? I am willing to pay more to avoid ads but putting ads on premium models now leads to why should I pay more if I'm going to see ads anyway so might as well get the cheaper model/brand that was good enough but avoided because of ads. I was looking the LG CX at christmas but decided to go with the Sony X9500 as could get a bigger screen for the same price and nervous around screen burn on oled of the lg cx. The reason I was looking the LG CX / Sony specifically was because of lack of (or perceived lack of) ads compared to say Samsung who are well known for this. Both TV's had good feedback on the user-interface being fast and user friendly. I'm now glad I went with the Sony. The Sony's seem to be running a pretty stock Android TV UI so haven't seen any ads or annoying things so far. In fact it's working better than the Xiaomi Mi Android tv box I had previously with my old TV. It's faster, not as buggy, supports Airplay and AppleTV, I was quite pleased after updating having one remote, no third party boxes plugged in and a seamless UI with what appears stock like android tv. I hope Sony don't do an update pushing ads. Saying that I run a dns blocker on my router so maybe I do get ads but they are blocked. Ads / bigdata seems to be the bullshit jobs of the modern world with ads driving us more and more to a dystopian future with more data acquisition then driving more ads then driving more data acquisition and on.
Hnrobert42 6y ago
This guy is remarkably calm about seeing this ad. I would be apoplectic. I would pick up the tv that instant and return it. If they wouldn’t accept it, I would douse it in lighter fluid and light it ablaze in their parking lot. But the last t.v. I owned was a CRT 15 years ago, so the idea that a t.v. plays its own ads is new to me.
FpUser 6y ago
>"Is there no escape from this stuff?" There is. The last time I had TV acting as TV was some 15 years ago or so. Since then even if it is a TV it is hooked up to my computers as a monitor without its own access to the Internet.
Daho0n 6y ago
The fix is better laws as they must be lacking because my LG also have ads but they are opt-in. Guess it's because my TV is Nordic, not US.
darth_avocado 6y ago
Just no. I paid the full amount on the TV, and you made a profit on it. So no, you should not be able to show ads and make more money off me, without my consent (which I don't give you). I am NOT going to turn off my wifi or stop updating its OS. I paid the full amount for the TV, I will expect full features to be functional at all times.
- millstone 6y ago
  But they didn't make a profit. TVs are sold nearly at cost.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    Do you have a source for this? I've heard the narrative before, but I find it slightly hard to believe there's that much value in (likely) poorly targeted ads from a system that manufacturers will probably drop backend support for in a few years.
  - darth_avocado 6y ago
    That is not at all true. On an average, TVs have a 10% margin of the manufacturers, this tends to be way higher for newer models. If they are sold at nearly at cost, there's no point for most manufacturers to even be in the business.
rachelbythebay 6y ago
> Now I’m fully aware that it’s not unusual to see ads placed around a TV’s home screen or main menu. This kind of acceptance is the problem. Push back! Don't buy this shit.
- canadianfella 6y ago
  Acknowledging reality isn’t the same as acceptance.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Given that the choice is increasingly not "buy an alternative product" but "abstain from the market entirely". That's possible for TVs (I've never owned one personally, though I've ived in households which have. I don't watch). But cars, refrigerators, stoves, washing machines, thermostats, rental housing ... ? Some of those absolute essentials and necessities. Laws and massive class-action lawsuits. Excellent On The Media segment featuring Shoshana Zuboff from December 2020, mentioned elssewhere on this thread: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.wnyc.org/otm/otm121820_cms1075697_pod.mp3 https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.wnyc.org/otm/...
  - nicbou 6y ago
    I do abstain from the market. It's not a conscious effort, but it discourages me every time I think I'd like one of those things. My friend is selling her TV at a decent price, but when I learned it's a Samsung I lost interest. I don't trust Samsung with any sort of hardware. I also don't trust new motorbikes with their computer-assisted everything. ABS and traction control are my last stop. I'm also fine with simple appliances, because they never felt like something that would benefit from a computer. I still have a dumb 720p projector. I'm sure I can find an upgrade, but those Internet-connected projectors are not in consideration. I like devices that are functional, in the programming sense. Simple inputs, simple outputs, no side effects.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      Again, for emphasis: this is not just about television. You cannot buy a modern car without a computer, and increasingly, without a cellular modem in it. TV can be foregone, housing cannot. Small and major appliances are effectively only available in surveillance-enabled versions. Neither "vote with your wallet" nor "abstain" are viable options. And again: laws and lawsuits.
ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
To play devils advocate, without ads and DRM stuff, how are artists supposed to make money? Another point is that you can’t expect to get that caliber of TV for that price without ads. If you don’t want ads, don’t buy the TV. Not that TV anyway. Just like no one is entitled to getting paid for their art, no one is entitled to entertainment.
- fadzlan 6y ago
  > Another point is that you can’t expect to get that caliber of TV for that price without ads. Just want to understand the argument. Not using any smart tv at the moment, maybe in the future, we'll see. So we should expect ads on expensive TVs now? USD 1500 is very expensive for me at least. I was expecting something good but cheaper to be subsidized by ads, not the really expensive ones.
- syntactic-sugar 6y ago
  Artists are not entitled to make a living, and certainly not at the cost of ever encroaching adtech. "Just don't buy the tv" would be a valid objection if the fact that advertising was included in the set was made abundantly clear at the point of sale, and if there were adfree alternatives readily available. Neither seems to be the case.
- mcyukon 6y ago
  Hmmm? For digital content, I pay a fee each month of which a certain amount is supposed to go towards the artists. Netflix Canada $14.99/month Disney Plus $11.99/month Amazon Prime $7.99/month Spotify $9.99/month For cable TV content which I don't have, The channels run ads. Which makes the channel owner money who then is supposed to pay the artists. If the artists aren't getting anything from that, that's a problem between them and their distributor. A problem that isn't going to magically get fixed by a TV OS running ads, of which the artist very likely never sees a cent of either. Lets say Netflix was free, and they ran ads in their content. Would I have a problem with that? No, they are providing free content and I would not mind watching ads. Or how about cable TV? People are already paying for Channels and getting blasted with Ads every 15 min or so, why should the TV OS "layer" Ads on top of Ads? I own a LG TV... it's not allow to access my network because of Ad "Layers" and I run everything through an Apple TV. At least that way, I see no Ads on paid content, and just 1 layer of ads on free content.
anothernewdude 6y ago
You wouldn't accept a TV that just took 15 seconds to respond to a button push. Why accept this?
neonihil 6y ago
I never liked (or even understood) the concept of a smart tv. “Do I want to replace my player hardware every time I get a new display?” The answer was a definite no. I ended up buying shiny new 65” 4K HDR Smart TV only because they didn’t sell it in dumb version. I duct taped it’s Ethernet port, and shielded it from wifi. (Just an image... but never let it connect). It’s only a display for Kodi and a gaming pc. ... And they lived happily ever after, without ever thinking about updates. End of story. (Pre-answers for the usual questions: I banished TV from my life in 1998. This “display” never seen an antenna. I read news papers, actual physical copies arriving in mail. And hacker news, ofc. I’m only ~30 years old. And yes it is a way, and I don’t see how TV is missing from my life)
- squarefoot 6y ago
  > I never liked (or even understood) the concept of a smart tv. It's perfectly understandable from the manufacturer point of view: a more complex, programmable, platform that can be instructed to show ads or grab personal data. I'm expecting the same behavior from every connected piece of technology we will put in our homes/cars/bodies. > I duct taped it’s Ethernet port, and shielded it from wifi. (Just an image... but never let it connect). Thanks to 5G (which is a good thing in itself) most of them will connect anyway, and some already attempt to find unprotected WiFi hotspots to get online.
  - cced 6y ago
    Source on the claim?
    - squarefoot 6y ago
      I couldn't find the reference, sorry, however I'm sure I read it here from some user who wanted to keep offline his Smart TV by not giving it any encrypted WiFi credentials, but found it attempting to connect anyway through open ones. Someone already found Smart TVs using hardcoded DNS addresses (although they obtain their own address through a DHCP request) which has the side effect of bypassing anti-adware/malware tools such as Pi-Hole. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25313480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25313480 Ignoring the user choice of keeping a SmartTV offline by looking for the nearest open network (or possibly using 5G in the future) would be just one step away.
RandyRanderson 6y ago
Great site: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
This is why I still use a 720p LCD TV from the early 2000s. Am I ever tempted to get a bigger, higher-def, TV? Sure, but then I remember that they're all "smart" and realize I don't actually have a problem with how I'm watching TV now. I don't want smart anything in my house. My lights are hardwired to a switch on the wall. My washer and drier need me to turn dials and push buttons and go ding when they're done. My fridge has no microprocessor in it. I honestly don't understand people who want all this internet connected garbage. These things weren't broke, they don't need fixing!
- xvector 6y ago
  > I honestly don't understand people who want all this internet connected garbage. Because it’s convenient. As I leave work, my home’s AC turns on. When I arrive and open the door, my lights fade on and my blinds gradually roll up. My music seamlessly transitions to my home theatre with a tap. If someone’s at my door, it appears on my TV. When it’s time to go to bed I can turn everything off with a murmur. Adjust my temperature to be absolutely perfect without getting out of bed. When it’s time to wake up, the lights gradually increase in intensity, and my blinds automatically open again. I can ask for my schedule and whether I need a jacket while getting ready for work. Have my car turn on the AC as I leave my apartment, and have my lights, blinds, and AC automatically turn off when I leave home. The little things add up. Life in a connected home is easier. I can spend the time saved on things that actually matter. All that is well worth the marginal privacy impact of HomeKit for most people.
  - the_cat_kittles 6y ago
    i think people who repair and make stuff hate these sorts of things because they introduce a layer of complexity that ruins longevity and predictability. what you call convenience, i call added costs down the line, and unreliability. also, the "time saved" is a bit like saying modal editors are good because you can enter text more efficiently. its all technically true, but seems irrelevant to me (and i use vim exclusively). but i have to concede that this idea of IOT home convenience stuff may be legitimately useful for some people, like yourself. it just seems to be the case that thats only true for some people.
yeeeee 6y ago
So network filter on your router maybe the best solution. Not only for TV ads but annoying app ads.
kristofferR 6y ago
This is pretty misleading, ads can be turned off from the settings. It shouldn't be like that of course, but nobody "have to watch ads".
freebuju 6y ago
This is why you only connect to your TV through a pi-hole network.
userbinator 6y ago
I wonder how much demand there is for services to "dumb down" smart TVs --- paying someone to replace the motherboard with a dumb one (search online for "universal scaler board"; the "3663" is a common model), for those who don't want to do it themselves.
- dylan604 6y ago
  More than the manufacturers want to admit
_tom_ 6y ago
Buy a monitor. Hook it to an Apple TV, or some other reasonably well behaved source.
batiudrami 6y ago
On my 2019 E9 there is an option to turn off ads and another for content recommendations. Did it on day 1 and haven’t seen an ad on my TV since. Maybe this is different in the US?
whalesalad 6y ago
Just don’t connect your tv to the internet. Easy peasy.
ziml77 6y ago
Only if you use the "smart" features. If you don't want ads, get a Shield or Apple TV.
johnnymonster 6y ago
Pinhole whole home ad blocking!!!
SmellTheGlove 6y ago
This is nuts. We're moving soon and I thought I might get a bigger, 4K TV. We've been using the 720p plasma I bought in 2005 + a 1080p 47" from like 2009. Not bad by any stretch, but I'm curious how 4K would look on a larger display, and prices seem pretty good these days. Then I read stuff like this. Can I still buy a dumb TV? I'll pay more. Who sells them still? Or, like, can I open this thing up and take out the wifi antenna or something? I'd block it at the router, but I hear they also try and connect to open APs. Awful trend.
- fy20 6y ago
  > Can I still buy a dumb TV? Most of the big names sell displays designed for commercial use (e.g. the screens you see at entrances to shopping centers), which are basically just big monitors, so no smart stuff, other than maybe being able to turn it on/off remotely. However instead of a $800 TV you are probably talking $5000 - not that the tech is much different, it's just that it's designed for commercial use. Is not seeing ads worth that much more for you?
  - bekindandopen 6y ago
    Yes, of course. A nice TV is a sizeable appliance that should live for 10-20 years. If I couldn't buy a fridge or microwave that didn't show ads on its smart display, I'd also be happy to pay a big premium for a commercial model. I probably shouldn't give appliance companies ideas, but I'd give even odds that we'll be having that conversation within 10 years anyways.
  - SmellTheGlove 6y ago
    Yeah I'll pay more for a TV that doesn't collect data or show ads. I'd probably also be willing to buy the cheaper model, open it, and remove the wifi antenna/hardware if blocking its MAC at the router doesn't work.
Rastonbury 6y ago
For Android TV, you can configure NextDNS for tracking and ad blocking. I have the a xiaomi TV, the frequency at which it pings home is quite ludicrous.
yellowapple 6y ago
> This stuff can come off as invasive, but it’s also partially what’s steadily brought the prices down on even high-end TVs. Is it? I highly doubt ad revenue on these TVs puts anything more than a single-digit dent on the dollar pricetag, and Sceptre's TVs - without smarts at all, let alone ads - are able to undercut those pricetags without much (if anything) in the way of sacrificed quality.
diebeforei485 6y ago
What's the best "dumb" TV? With no Wi-Fi or apps on it.
- yellowapple 6y ago
  Anything by Sceptre. Dirt cheap, good quality. 4K. Can't go wrong.
ornornor 6y ago
Most tv manufacturers are on my shitlist because of that. I bought a Panasonic OLED a couple years ago. It’s 55” and it’s top of the range (same panel as the LGs, better software. They’re the reference screens they use in Hollywood to color movies in post apparently) I paid 1000$ for it, new, with two years of warranty. It has no ads, period. Except on the YouTube app but these are from YouTube themselves. I use Kodi to stream YT instead. Oh and it boots in 5 seconds flat, from pressing the power button to content on screen. I guess there might still be a few reputable tv makers that don’t do ads or content recognition. Panasonic is one at least on that particular model. I’ll never buy an LG or Samsung for these reasons and will probably stick to Panasonic.
- fakedang 6y ago
  Can concur! Panasonic seems to not have caught onto the TV ads trend.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    My four year old Panasonic shows ads in the apps screen.
- jjtheblunt 6y ago
  We have a 3 year old 65 inch Sony and it behaves just fine also.
  - kenhwang 6y ago
    I used to scratch my head at who would pay a $500-1000 premium for a Sony when it just uses an LG panel. But after owning an LG for several years now and seeing it get more and more ads with every update, I think the premium on the Sony is worth it for an ad-free clean experience.
    - jjtheblunt 6y ago
      Agreed, as I had an LG before that, and loved it; our trick was wait for year end new models essentially the same to come out, and Best Buy to discount the prior year models.
monksy 6y ago
If you bought it from costco.. you should take it back.
tvbuzz 6y ago
Manufacturers forget what they do best: make tv's Once they don't see the revenue they're expecting and realize that if all TV's come this way, most of us would be willing to pay MORE for 'no ads'... we will be back to where we were 5 yrs. ago.
myrandomcomment 6y ago
If you look at my comment history you will see this answer posted before, not worth typing again as this is the (some larger number of times) we have had a thread on this subject. “I just bought the TV I wanted and never connected it to the internet, never ran the "setup". I use an AppleTV 4K which has all the streaming apps you want (Netflix, Amazon, BBC, Pluto, etc.). For local media I use an application called MrMC ($6.99) which is a Kodi port to the AppleTV that allows you to mount Samba/NFS (https://mrmc.tv https://mrmc.tv). MrMC even supports using a SQL backend for keeping track of your media (like Kodi). I just run it in on a jail in my TrueNAS setup. Every TV is the same, every time someone starts MrMC everything is in sync. Nice and simple.”
fnord77 6y ago
can't wait until cars start having ads on their infotainment screen while you're stopped at a stop light
eschaton 6y ago
Did you ever wonder why your TV was only $1500?
- anticensor 6y ago
  Should it have costed $5000 instead?
dehrmann 6y ago
I do appreciate how up-front Amazon is with Kindles. There's a toggle on the product page between the ad-supported one and the ad-free one. $30 difference. They've been doing this for a long time, so I assume enough customers want it to make it worthwhile.
- utf_8x 6y ago
  Not to mention they will disable the ads for you if you contact their support, for free, no questions asked...
pabs3 6y ago
Would be great if you could install Linux on your TV to avoid this sort of thing. Perhaps one day SamyGO will be usable on some TVs. https://www.samygo.tv/ https://www.samygo.tv/
secretsatan 6y ago
I do everything through my PS4, it's got the streaming apps I want, it's fast and reactive unlike the built in smart tv interface which is a bit slow and laggy. And although it's only happened to me 2-3 times in the 3 years I had this Sony TV, I really, really resent having to reboot it because it's had a couple of weird glitches.
durnygbur 6y ago
No subscription, price, or arrangement will defend you against ads. You uproot them and fundamentally reject them, or your children will be indoctrinated by global predators selling liquids oversaturated with sugar and gas.
3guk 6y ago
At this stage, these threads are getting kind of boring, it's clear that almost all manufacturers are in a race to the bottom in terms of cost - and now the only way that they can compete on price is by bundling adverts into your internet connected set. All talk of "voting with your wallet" doesn't work when there are literally no "smart" consumer sets that can compete on features and are without adverts. If you really wish to have your smart TV connected to the internet - I've listed some of the adservers that you can block at : https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Smart_TV_Adverts https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Smart_TV_Adverts - however this is also going to be a tiresome game, as manufacturers will just seek to find more creative ways to serve adverts. The reality is though, if you want to avoid this behaviour - buy the set that has the screen that you want and only connect it to the internet if you wish to do a software update. Only software update if your set has a bug that the advertised firmware actually fixes, as newer updates tend to add more "features" - adverts, slower apps etc etc. Use something like and AppleTV or a Roku device connected via HDMI if you really need smart features - but be aware even the likes of Roku / Nvidia Shield / FireTV will at some point in the future also be serving you adverts. I've also heard that some sets are trying to find open wifi networks - if you are really that worried, cut the traces on the wifi card inside the set and hope that manufacturers don't start to use ethernet over HDMI.
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  If one wishes to use the "smart" features without ads, so far DNS blocking still works. The simplest solution is to set up https://nextdns.io https://nextdns.io with the lists for smart TVs. I've done it with a recent Samsung one and it works perfectly, without ads. For sure if one day TVs use their own DNS, the solution would be to not connect them and not use their "smart" features. But until then, it works.
colinb 6y ago
Is this US-only thing? I have an LG and a Samsung TV, both less than 4 years old. Neither do this. I'm inside the EU, so I wonder if GDPR is protecting me from the misbehavior. Failing that, I guess, there's always the PiHole DNS shenanigans. But you shouldn't have to be the IT guy/gal just to help your next-door neighbor watch their damn TV.
- Sander_Marechal 6y ago
  It's not. I'm in The Netherlands and last year my fairly new Samsung TV started serving me ads. I was so pissed off, if the TV had still been under warranty I would have returned it. I have now pi-holed my entire network. My next TV will be a dumb screen.
- tungdo 6y ago
  I live in Germany. My Samsung (less than 1 year old) serves Ads even if I'm watching videos on my USB. Their Support denied this and claimed Netflix is showing Ads, but they update Eula software later to ask for consent. It seems that they have tried this before. https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Samsung-Smart-TVs-blenden-Werbung-ueber-abgespielte-lokale-Inhalte-2545924.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Samsung-Smart-TVs-bl...
tpush 6y ago
I'm in Germany and have the LG B7 Oled. After the last update it wanted me to review the settings for EULA agreements etc. It defaulted to disagree and I just never set it to agree. I've still never seen an ad on this TV. Guess GDPR counts for something!
daveoc64 6y ago
I'm in the UK and own two LG Smart TVs (a 65SM8600PLA and a 82UN85006LA). I've never seen any ads on the 65" model, and the 82" model had a toggle to switch them off. In the past, I was always against buying any device with features integrated into it (like a TV/DVD combo), but after actually using a smart TV (I had a Panasonic Smart TV before these LG TVs), I can't see any reason why I'd want to stop using the built-in apps like Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Disney+, BBC iPlayer, and YouTube. The apps work well, and the convenience of them being integrated into the TV is hard to argue with. Sure, I could watch the same content with the Chromecast, PC, Xbox Series X, or DVR - all connected via HDMI, but what would that actually offer over the TV's own apps?
beezischillin 6y ago
Samsung uses the same domains for everything on their smart TVs: the app remote, app store and ads. Despite how relatively usable their Tizen smart TV OS is having to turn off Pi-Hole every time they disappear an app from your home-screen to find it again in the App Store is frustrating. But at least what I paid for is mine...
nottorp 6y ago
Yet he owns an Xbox... doesn't that cram ads in the menus as well?
imagine99 6y ago
I recommend looking at Digital Signage Displays instead (NEC is pretty good but there are many name brands). They have most of the TV tech you need and none of the TV tech you don't want. They are rated to run 16 to 24 hours a day, so they can possibly last much longer than a consumer TV. They do Wi-fi the way it's supposed to be done (you can remote control them from your PC or via local web interface, no cloud necessary). They have neat features such as DisplayPort, daisy-chaining, calibration etc. There are even models that have integrated slots for Raspberry Pis or NUCs or you can just plug in a Fire Stick/Chromecast or what have you and use Plex or any of the multitude of other solutions to build your own Smart TV. I'd estimate you pay approx. $300-$500 premium for that convenience on a 65" 4k screen. I guess that's what not stealing your data is worth over the life of the device. I can live with that, as this ensures that I get enterprise/industrial-level quality and a professional feature set and none of the annoyances of Smart TVs.
voidbip 6y ago
I am actually in the market for a new TV. Are all of them like this now? For me this is an absolute deal breaker. I would be willing to pay more specifically to not have this 'feature'. Can anyone suggest brands or TV lines that do not have this?
gambiting 6y ago
I've just checked - no ads on my 2020 LG CX(yet?).
lmilcin 6y ago
For now I am just using large older monitor for TV. It would be nice to have something that can be guaranteed to not snoop on my life but for now I JUST CAN'T FIND ANY. Which is super frustrating.
thebruce87m 6y ago
My ~4 year old LG OLED had a firmware update last week and the Automatic Content Recognition license agreement option was clicked automatically - I.e. your TV will record and send clips of what you are watching (even your own home movies) and send it to a server to determine what the content is so that it can serve you personalised ads. See here: consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smart-tv-snooping-features/ LG seem to call it “Live Plus”. Just a heads up to anyone who might be unaware.
peanut_worm 6y ago
I recommend anyone looking for a TV get a signage TV and a chromecast/pi/computer instead of a smart tv. I noticed a lot of smart tvs are underspecced for their own operating system and lag horribly. My parents TV takes like 2 minutes to start.
- aussieguy1234 6y ago
  I'm in the market for a new tv. Any pros/cons of doing this? I'll use Kodi which is installed on an old laptop
bradgranath 6y ago
"My $25 drone stopped working!" "My free Facebook account was disabled!" "My $1,500 Popular Brand 55" OLED 4K TV has ads!" I say again: 1 click mega e commerce has destroyed our concept of value.

359 points by brundolf 6y ago

This would make me absolutely explode. I can do the pihole route but I'd rather we had legal control over what's being displayed on our TVs.

Myztiq 6y ago
Most of these ads are actually built into the firmware, I have a pihole set up and I still get ads from my tv, sometimes even on startup there will be a new thing appearing in the corner. Next up is preventing it from accessing the internet entirely, but then I'd need to have a second remote to actually watch my content.
cphajduk 6y ago
Looking forward to jailbreaking my TV.
- MikeUt 6y ago
  Illegal due to DMCA.
TameAntelope 6y ago
I turned the ads off in my LG TV, took 5 minutes and now it behaves exactly as a dumb TV would to my eyes. I’m surprised by this community’s refusal to spend even a small amount of time hacking on their TV. Maybe you think it should “just” work, but when is that ever the case?
- progman32 6y ago
  My TVs "just" worked from the late 1980s until 2020, which is when I downgraded to a smart tv.
- sodality2 6y ago
  Because 70% of the population will never bother doing that. And then it creeps higher, as people get used to it. "Sure it's opt out, that means it's not forced" is a horrible argument for an anti-consumer move. Wait until IP's are hardcoded and ads can't be turned off, on any consumer TV, because there's no more demand for dumb ones, and it maximizes profit.
  - TameAntelope 6y ago
    We've got folks here declaring they'd march into the store they bought their TV from and demand a refund. That's not a very hacker mindset, is my point. Also, technically speaking, what you've constructed is a fallacy. When something like what you described happens, nobody's going to use "but you were okay with not-this before, therefore you must be okay with this new thing!" I'll march into Best Buy right with you when I can't turn it off, but as long as I can, I'm probably just going to do that and move on with my life.
    - sodality2 6y ago
      >I'll march into Best Buy right with you when I can't turn it off, but as long as I can, I'm probably just going to do that and move on with my life. I mean, yeah, I did too, but I'm also writing letters to my reps for the people who don't know how to do that. >Also, technically speaking, what you've constructed is a fallacy. When something like what you described happens, nobody's going to use "but you were okay with not-this before, therefore you must be okay with this new thing!" I'm not saying you'd be okay with it, in fact I think your view is pretty reasonable. Personally I want to stop this sort of thing from being on by default, personalized tracking on nearly every TV, etc.
novok 6y ago
Legislation saying that "network off" settings need to be respected and the device needs to work as much as a possible without a network connection, on pain of 2x revenue + penalty from whatever agreements you made selling data would go a long way. No more cars that spy on you as you drive around when you turn of network services, no more TVs that spy on what you watch and so on.
- b0tzzzzzzman 6y ago
  Rental cars .. Well cars in general used to have Aux ports. Not any more. And the default is always to sync contacts. Its out of hand.
- titzer 6y ago
  What you sounds quite reasonable...from a consumer perspective. Laws are not written for consumers. You have no power and no voice and the vast majority of people are so completely checked out of reality that you are hopelessly outnumbered. Oh, and big business and government surveillance are both lined up on the other side. We are losing this one.

sokoloff 6y ago

Smart TV apps are largely terrible to start with. The $30 on-sale ($50 retail) Fire TV 4K Stick has been one of my highest bang-for-the-buck consumer purchases in a long time. It's a great Plex client, YouTube client, Netflix client, Prime Video client (of course), and quickly took over primary video source duties as soon as I installed it. The prior version (the not 4K one) struggled with even 1080p H265 decoding, but the 4K version handles H265 and all the other formats I've thrown at it just fine. Even when the TV was brand new, the apps on the TV were terrible (sluggish, disjointed UI, TV remote not comfortable to use as primary remote). 4 years later, they're not going to be any better, while the HDMI input sources can be easily and cheaply upgraded.

varikin 6y ago
I agree. I use a roku instead, but same result. I used the apps on my TV for a bit when I got it, but they would fail, like it had a memory leak if I watched something for over 3 hours. I don't trust telling the TV to disable wifi, so I just changed the wifi credentials on the TV to be incorrect. No problems anymore.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Only a matter of time before they start downloading ads via OTA datastream. Could do rough geolocation by differential signal strengths/timing. TV could run code to infer gender/age/etc or just link it to the serial number of the purchaser and their address. Of course you didn’t get your 65” TV delivered to your own house, right? If it’s strictly one-way, ad purchasers may not know precisely how many “hits” they got, but could be inferred from the online TVs. To be determined if it’s worthwhile if almost everyone puts the TV online anyway, but if there’s a world where people don’t, you’ll still be almost as screwed.
  - withinboredom 6y ago
    I’m surprised they haven’t paid google to serve long term ads to offline TVs from their street view cars... or Tesla, or any car manufacturer probably parked in a close by garage and able to receive data ota

jb775 6y ago

We'll probably have ads in our dreams eventually, like in Futurama.

swiley 6y ago
Alternatively you could adopt the attitude people like RMS have and refuse to interact with manipulative software from lying companies.
- smegger001 6y ago
  if i refused to interact with lying companies i think the only place i could do business is at the independent espresso stand a few miles away run by a senior lady and her cat.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    It doesn't have to be all or nothing. There's plenty of stuff you can reasonably do without significant inconvenience.
    - JanisL 6y ago
      The amount of things you can do seems to have been shrinking over the years though

eutropia 6y ago

This is why no TV in my house ever gets access to the wifi. If I must update it, it gets a temporary guest network.

dylan604 6y ago
Why would it need to be updated? Either it works, or it doesn't. If you're not using the "smart" parts, then it needs to just decode the damn HDMI signal. If it stops doing that to the point of needing an update, then things are terribly terribly wrong.
- agent86 6y ago
  It works, but there are other levels of the stack between low level decoding HDMI and the "smart" parts. Without updates you might miss out on other improvements like decreased input lag, support for another format, and bugfixes for the existing implementations (i.e. the HDMI decoder strobes when specific configuration X is utilized). As a concrete example, Sony added HDR to one of their lines a year after it's original production a few years ago[1]. [1]https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00157695 https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00157695

vermilingua 6y ago

What's never mentioned in this brand of article is that $1,500 is probably quite low for the caliber of screen you get in a brand new TV. The state of the art has progressed significantly, while the cost of manufacturing hasn't dropped all that much; and yet the price of a new TV has held more or less constant, because it is subsidized by the income from ads. The problem isn't that the TVs show ads, it's that there is no option on the market for a non-homebrand TV that is fully functional but doesn't show ads. My guess is that manufacturers are afraid to sell this option because it then becomes trivial to flash the firmware from an adless TV onto an adful TV. (FWIW I hate nothing more than seeing ads on my TV outside broadcast)

megablast 6y ago
How much do you imagine ads pay?? Because it is a tiny amount. Cents. Not dollars.
- arthur_sav 6y ago
  It's not just ads, they gather and sell data to other advertisers. This has a compounding effect over time, so i'd say it's very much lucrative.
  - novok 6y ago
    It also has little overhead compared to physical TVs.
jng 6y ago
My take is that ad revenue for TV manufacturers is next to nothing today, and it has zero impact on the cost of a TV set. But they're trying in case they can have access to a potentially huge revenue stream in the future. And my take is also that they won't do it well and they won't gain access to a revenue stream that only the likes of Google or Facebook are able to command and manage, but they will certainly annoy a huge amount of users along the way. Only convenient option here seems to be to not give connectivity to your TV set, or not have a TV set at all.
6y ago

random5634 6y ago

I'm using an Apple TV into a projector (which is not connected to the internet). I'm not getting ads through the Apple TV. I'm assuming there will be claims that whatever apple is doing to keep ads out and just have their own world is violating anti-trust, but I have to say I like it. They also do a weird aggregation thing across Amazon etc, so you have shows from multiple channels / service in one view. Not sure how that works, but from consumer side it is very nice.

pridkett 6y ago
Apple isn’t blocking ads here. They make their money through the hardware and additional devices, without the need to inject ads everywhere. If you use an ad supported service like Peacock or Hulu you’ll still see ads in the streams.
- random5634 6y ago
  Ahh - very nice. I don't use hulu. I license movies I like on the itunes store if I'll be watching them a few times. And stream very lightly. I would not take it well to have to deal with ads on an expensive device, or even be forced to jump through hoops to turn them off. I'm sure Apple is leaving money on the table, but I'm very willing to pay the apple premium to have to worry a lot less about this type of total jerk behavior.
brundolf 6y ago
Apple (so far) has been very reliable about letting you give them extra cash for a mostly user-respecting experience, and that's the main reason I buy from them (and has made me happy with my Apple TV purchase) So as long as these built-in ads on the display can be disabled by disconnecting the thing from the internet, I can live with it. If they ever decide to make them work offline, or start embedding a cell antenna in the TV set, that's when I'll throw a real fit
- r00fus 6y ago
  Isn't that where legislation is supposed to help?

edoceo 6y ago

Was just shopping for a new TV. But previous threads here about Smart TV have me currently browsing Baba for just a panel+hdmi inputs, then I can connect my own "smart"

FireBeyond 6y ago
Look up "digital signage" displays. You'll pay a premium (of course), but often same panel, no tuner, no speaker, no smarts, just inputs.

Guzba 6y ago

I've never put a TV on my WiFi. That strikes me as an obviously bad idea. I guess people use the terrible built-in apps? It just seems like a series of poor choices to me. Crazy though that an expensive LG CX OLED would do that. I figured at least if you paid more for the TV it would show some tiny level of respect for the owner but clearly not. I know the various streaming sticks people use instead show ads too probably if it isn't an Apple TV but at least it is somewhat quarantined. Pretty crazy how antagonistic things are getting.

bin_bash 6y ago
My LG TV recently updated and gave me AirPlay 2 so it’s not all bad
cosmotic 6y ago
The LG versions of all the apps I've used are much better because it allows for cursor control and I feel it more reliably leads to HDR and 4k content.
- notyourday 6y ago
  That's today. Who knows what is going to happen in 6 months. Edit: there are a lot of people with other smart TVs that progressively got more and more broken applications.
lame-robot-hoax 6y ago
It’s beneficial to use the built in apps on the OLEDs as they automatically play a screensaver when they notice content has been paused over a certain period of time. As well, no need to enable HDR etc for whatever device you are using instead of the built in apps. I just now setup my LG CX to run through NextDNS to block any ads because of this. Took only about five minutes.
- 1MoreThing 6y ago
  IME, both Apple TV and Amazon Fire stick devices do this too.

syspec 6y ago

> We’re just going to cram ads into every corner of a TV’s software, huh? There are 12 ads active on this article, and at least 1 autoplaying video ad.

Guzba 6y ago
To be fair, they paid for the TV but you didn't pay for the article.
- syspec 6y ago
  Hah! That is a good point!
- daxelrod 6y ago
  And you _can_ pay for the article in a way that causes the site to stop serving ads. The Verge is part of Scroll, which is one of the services where you pay a monthly subscription fee to not see ads on their member sites. Not shilling (I have no affiliation other than being a subscriber), just thought it was relevant to the larger conversation about paying for things and ads.
loloquwowndueo 6y ago
Use an ad blocker. I don’t feel bad about not giving money to what is essentially a rant about a crappy tv. My life wouldn’t have changed in any way if I hadn’t read it.
- nicbou 6y ago
  You don't selectively refuse to give money though. You block everything by default and then rationalise that the content sucked.

arafa 6y ago

Just let me pay more for a non-ads version. Worked just fine for Amazon Kindle products.

peteretep 6y ago
I'd like to see legislation that essentially said all ad-supported products of a certain size have to offer a non-ads version. Price is up to the product maker, but start forcing consumers to see what producers think their data and eyeballs is worth

arthurcolle 6y ago

This guy overpaid by a lot... I have a VIZIO QLED that is 65 inches that cost like $450 and looks like reality

gnicholas 6y ago
The author got an OLED, which is why it cost more than your TV.
mav3rick 6y ago
Vizio <<<<<< LG. Also OLED >>>> Anything (Don't say Plasma)
ska 6y ago
> QLED apples, meet oranges.

Bud 6y ago

I swear to God, if this happened with my TV I'd take it back to the store in whatever way I could find that would cost the manufacturer the most money. Intolerable. "Smart" TVs should be banned. Streaming devices or nothing. TVs should be dumb screens.

swader999 6y ago
Well if you could reformat them and load your own OS.

uncledave 6y ago

This is why I can’t bring myself to change out my 32” Samsung dumb TV. Every time I look elsewhere I see products which are worse even if I gain 4K and some more inches. Please someone just sell a 4K monitor in 43, 50 inch sizes with HDMI that actually works and decent speakers and I’ll buy it for 25% more than the equivalent sized smart tv.

SavantIdiot 6y ago
I hear ya. My 46" Samsung is from 2008. It stated to go wonky in 2013 and I googled and found I needed to literally cut a resistor off the board. It's been fine ever since. Fingers crossed.
OldHand2018 6y ago
The standard response would be to buy a commercial display, but you are looking at more than 25% higher prices. On the other hand, commercial displays theoretically are designed to be run nearly 24/7/365 and thus more durable, and many far more features than your standard television. Many NEC commercial displays, for example, have an expansion slot for a Raspberry Pi Compute Module. Wouldn’t that be fun?
- nfoz 6y ago
  My "commercial display" series 55" 4k LG dumb tv from a few years ago (in Canada) was ~$150 cheaper than its featurewise-near-equivalent (except the smarts) Consumer-oriented smart TV at the time ($900 vs $1050 iirc). However I don't know if that product series has been updated / still available, and it may have been Canada only. But I'm not sure "commercial displays" are actually more expensive -- it might depend on the type and intended use-case.
dylan604 6y ago
The thinness really prevents decent speakers being part of the tv itself. You're essentially getting mobile device level speakers on a 40"+ screen. Then, they aren't even facing you. As much as I'd prefer a dumb TV, I'd also prefer a mute TV. Don't waste effort/money on putting something that nobody is seriously going to use.

boring_twenties 6y ago

Honestly not surprising. I bought a washing machine from LG a year or two ago. At first, I didn't bother even looking into its "connected" features, but recently I came into a spare iPhone that was just gathering dust, so I figured why not give it a shot, maybe there's something useful here. Holy hell. The app itself refuses to even attempt to connect to any device, unless granted Location Services permission. WTF? I mean, I expected spyware, I guess I just didn't expect them to be so god damn brazen about it. After that, it turns out the appliance itself refuses to stay connected to the wifi network unless it can phone home. Needless to say, it ignores both forms of proxy configuration (WPAD and DHCP option) as well. Give it direct Internet, or give it death.

_mitch 6y ago
If an app needs to connect to a Wi-Fi AP on the appliance, you have to allow location since having access to the Wi-Fi scan of networks that are in range can allow for some coarse geolocation, thanks to open source SSID databases [1]. I wish Android and iOS would add functionality that allowed an app to connect to a known SSID without access to the scan because the permission requirement is rightly off-putting. [1] https://wigle.net/map?maplat=37.76559999999937&maplon=-122.42459999999792&mapzoom=13&coloring=density https://wigle.net/map?maplat=37.76559999999937&maplon=-122.4...
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  I could be wrong but I don't think this is the case? Even after enabling the Location Services access, I still had to manually connect to the appliance's AP through the iOS Settings app.
- bscphil 6y ago
  > I wish Android and iOS would add functionality that allowed an app to connect to a known SSID without access to the scan Would that really help that much? If you know the user's approximate area, e.g. by IP address, and their SSID is unique in that area, than if the app says to the OS "please connect to this SSID if it's available" and the connection happens, the app now has your location. I suppose that's a case for making location access more granular, not leaving things the way they are. But I bet people doing UIs for Google and Apple won't do that because the average user doesn't understand the possible location implications of giving away your SSID.

sophacles 6y ago

It sure would be nice to live in a world where I don't have to put conscious effort into minimizing the surveillance teams' knowledge of me when I want to sit back and relax, let alone do something interesting. I'm old enough to remember when I wasn't constantly being micro-analyzed - at the time I didn't realize it was a luxurious lifestyle I led, but in retrospect I sure do miss it. I know this site is full of ultra-capitalists, will you explain to me why I'm wrong for wanting to pay to not be tracked? Also, explain to me why the fruit of my existence is a resource to be harvested vs something I should be compensated for. I'm sure I'll be roasted super hard for this but very strong privacy laws seem to be a good idea - market effects be damned.

Enginerrrd 6y ago
I'm with you, particularly because there really AREN'T alternatives. Most try to blame consumers here for "not paying more", but the reality is there's a healthy pseudo-monopoly in most spheres of tech that we interact with in one form or another and true competition is rare.

beastman82 6y ago

Buy an nvidia shield and never look back

mwfunk 6y ago

It's been said many times here over the past few years, and it'll get said a lot right here today, but rule of thumb: never enable WiFi on a TV except maybe temporarily to do an update or something. And even then only if it's absolutely necessary. Get a Roku or an Apple TV or a game console or whatever you want for watching streaming services. Never use what's built in to the TV, not just for privacy reasons but because it always seems to be a terrible experience compared to running Hulu, Netflix, etc. on anything else. But for privacy too- the TV companies were incredibly egregious about privacy years ago and AFAICT it's only gotten worse since then.

kitsunesoba 6y ago
Some TVs allow firmware updates via USB thumb drive, which I think is a feature worth selecting for. This allowed me to get some bug fixes for my Sony Bravia TV that I would’ve had to live without had updates been online-only. Additionally, there are some models that come with nearly-stock Android TV that are easy to remove creepware from (just plug into laptop and remove with ADB) should one feel inclined to use built-in smarts. Personally I’ve been using an Apple TV and it’s served me well.
- jasomill 6y ago
  I'd be willing to bet that all modern TVs support local offline firmware updates. Whether the actual firmware update binaries are readily available to non-commercial end users is another matter entirely (and of course equally important!). In the case of my recent-ish LG model, they are, and offline USB updates work fine.
r00fus 6y ago
Amazon Sidewalk is an effort to bypass your workaround of preventing network access to TV manufacturers' ad networks. Hopefully it fails like DIVX, but given there are 4G radios in most cars today, it probably will succeed. Soon appliances and other IoT will no longer be reliant on your say-so on what data it collects and when...
_coveredInBees 6y ago

SavantIdiot 6y ago

I think the majority of the population is OK with ads everywhere and paying for multiple streaming channels for 5-10x more than basic cable from the 90's. If that's what customers want, or continue to buy, I guess that makes me a grumpy old man like the OP. Last year my 10+ year old Roku was EOL'd: it literally STOPPED working. Had I paid more than $50 for it, I'd probably be more miffed, but I think this is a consequence that will become more egregious if we continue to buy "smart" things. However it was getting less and less use because there's just nothing I'm interested in watching, or rather, I don't want to pay to click channels like I did in pre-2000. Every show I"m interested in requires a subscription to a new service, so I just said fuck it around 2012-2013 and stuck with Netflix DVDs, and then cancelled that in 2018. Now I rent an Amazon Prime flick once or twice a week for $2.99, which is about 12-24$/month.

MikeUt 6y ago
> I think the majority of the population is OK with ads everywhere You talk as if there was a $1800 ad-free TV on sale next to the ad-infested one. The majority isn't given a choice.
- SavantIdiot 6y ago
  What? Just don't connect it to the internet. Unless this TV doesn't allow that? Agree with your point, there is little choice. I recall reading that there was a place to purchase bezel-less, stripped down TVs w/o the smarts, that are basically monitors without being the quality of monitors so they are cheap, and used for creating giant wall displays.
  - Daho0n 6y ago
    All modern hdmi cables support ethernet so unless the device in the other end of the cable is an older one the TV could still get internet. The fix is better laws. The exact same TV in Nordic version have an option to turn ads on (it defaults to off).
    - 6y ago

unixhero 6y ago

Anyone with experience from owning a recent Sony smart tv? Is it equally as bad as LG and Samsung when it comes to ads?

brewdad 6y ago
I rarely see the main interface since I mostly stream with a ShieldTV, so I can't really say anything about ads there. I did finally end up enabling wifi though. I kept it off for the first month but the TV got more and more aggressive about posting overlays that warned my that my TV did not have internet access. Even while streaming on an external device. It really took me out of the moment. I probably would have returned it at that point but my car isn't big enough to fit it and any other TV would probably end up the same way or worse.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Oh, that is so wrong. I don't want to know about not having internet access unless I asked it do something that required internet access. That's even more user hostile than I thought we had debased ourselves.
tiew9Vii 6y ago
I have a Sony X9500. I run a dns blocker on my router so it may be serving me ads but if it is I don't know. From my research I don't think the X9500 serves ads. I was quite pleased with upgrading to it from a dumb tv and cheap android tv box. It's faster than the android tv box I had, not suffered any bugs i saw on the android tv box. UI looks pretty much stock android tv, it has airplay and appletv which you don't get on android tv boxes. I'm happy with the purchase so far.
agotterer 6y ago
I’ve historical owned Samsung TVs and became so fed up with the bugs, the ads, and the uninstallable pre-installed apps. The most recent TV I purchased was a Sony X650H and I love it. It’s android based, the UI isn’t clunky, and I’ve never seen an Ad. I have no idea if they are tracking me behind the scenes. At this point I assume everyone is. But at least they aren’t ruining my viewing experience.

mav3rick 6y ago

Any idea what soundbar that is ? Is that a Sonos Arc ?

gnicholas 6y ago
Looks like it to me. I just unwrapped one in white, and the perforations on the front/top look like a match.
- mav3rick 6y ago
  How you liking yours ? Got the rears or sub as well ?
  - gnicholas 6y ago
    I've literally had it for three hours, but my first impressions are: • The bass isn't as good as I'd been led to believe. If I were still a bachelor, I would get the sub (I didn't get either the sub or rear speakers) • The audio sync is blessedly ok for me. I had read some horror stories about this and was worried. I plug an iPhone/iPad into an projector via an Apple HDMI adaptor, and I use AirPlay for the sound. It's a split-second late, but it's acceptable for me. I may even be able to add some latency to my projector to fix this. • It seems like it really has to be sitting on top of a flat surface. I was planning to wall-mount mine, and right now I have it sitting centered on top of an old rectangular subwoofer. It doesn't sound great that way, but when I put the box it came in underneath it, it sounds much better. It seems to really change the acoustics, and I'm not sure how it'll sound wall-mounted, with nothing below it. I plan to call the company to inquire about this. The difference is very noticeable. • There is something loose in the speaker that makes it sound like either a cone is being blown out, or is already blown. Based on all their backorder/shipping delays (and what I've seen in forums), I'm guessing they've had Q/A issues in manufacturing. Hopefully this can be fixed without too much hassle. • Setup was really easy. It's my first Sonos, and I had it set up in about 10 minutes, including calibration (which seems to make a pretty big difference, though it could be all in my head). Feel free to contact me via email (in profile) if you want to hear as the story unfolds. I've been looking forward to getting this for a long time, and I'm cautiously optimistic so far.

dimal 6y ago

Luckily my LG smart TV's wifi is so crappy that it cannot stay connected to the internet for more than a few minutes, so I just use my Apple TV and never have to deal with this BS.

sunstone 6y ago

Only if you connect it to the internet.

walrus01 6y ago

never give your smart TV the wifi password or a connection to a 100/1000Mbps Ethernet port that will give it a DHCP address.

Daho0n 6y ago
Or a modern hdmi cable as they have ethernet?
- walrus01 6y ago
  I'm aware HDMI can carry it, but how many people are plugging their TVs into things that issue them dhcp leases, and act as a gateway/router for a path to the internet? Probably some, it seems like a feature that comcast or others would build into cable boxes, but not many (yet).

atum47 6y ago

I've been thinking about that for a while now. Is there any legal basis for us to sue them? It's not only in smart TVs, but cellphones as well.

warunsl 6y ago

I own one of these. Although I am yet to see full blown video ads like the one the article mentions, I definitely see banner ads on the bottom left of the LG interface, every time I click on the home button to switch between TV apps. I do have FireTV 4K stick and an Apple TV 4K on HDMI inputs but I still prefer the apps on the TV. They are much better in terms of picture quality, no idea why. Even the Apple TV+ app on the TV looks better than the app on Apple TV!

belltaco 6y ago
It might be because of different display settings applied to different inputs.
UpsilonAlpha 6y ago
This is a shot in the dark, but it's possible your HDMI cables aren't fully supporting the 4K. I was having trouble with a 4K monitor not displaying properly and it turned out my HDMI cable was outdated. Replacing it with a DisplayPort fixed the issue. That being said, most modern HDMI cables should support 4K, but it's always good to check the hardware specs of the cable and the TV.
- warunsl 6y ago
  That was my first suspicion. The cables definitely support 4K. I enabled diagnostics overlay on my FireTV and the resolution was definitely 4K and yet the picture looks washed off.
  - Daho0n 6y ago
    Go to settings, all settings, program tuning and on the first option there press 11111 and a diagnostic screen will show HDMI settings.
  - bscphil 6y ago
    Probably a software issue - the TV is reading the incoming SDR signal and treating it as Rec. 709 (the SDR standard) as opposed to Rec. 2020 (the HDR standard). Since the color primaries for Rec. 2020 are much wider, the values in the signal representing the "amount" of each color are smaller. If you then treat those numbers as in the SDR gamut, you get a washed out (less saturated) image. This is also just a shot in the dark, but matches your observations pretty well.

jonnycomputer 6y ago

I still have my circa 2007 television. It doesn't spy on me, and I don't care that they've gotten better. I spend most of my time in front of my 3 display iMac anyway.

anonymousiam 6y ago

I have the 65" version of the same set, but I have not yet been subjected to any ads on the LG app screens. I did notice last month that ads will pop up (and interrupt in-progress programs) if you switch to the LG provided channels (starting at 200 I think). I rarely look at those (or any broadcast content for that matter) anyway. Mostly the set is used for Netflix/Amazon Prime/Apple TV. This location has a pi-hole DNS for everything, so I may not bet getting all the ads they are trying to serve to me.

tiew9Vii 6y ago

That's strange, the LG CX series are the mid to premium range from LG being OLED? I am willing to pay more to avoid ads but putting ads on premium models now leads to why should I pay more if I'm going to see ads anyway so might as well get the cheaper model/brand that was good enough but avoided because of ads. I was looking the LG CX at christmas but decided to go with the Sony X9500 as could get a bigger screen for the same price and nervous around screen burn on oled of the lg cx. The reason I was looking the LG CX / Sony specifically was because of lack of (or perceived lack of) ads compared to say Samsung who are well known for this. Both TV's had good feedback on the user-interface being fast and user friendly. I'm now glad I went with the Sony. The Sony's seem to be running a pretty stock Android TV UI so haven't seen any ads or annoying things so far. In fact it's working better than the Xiaomi Mi Android tv box I had previously with my old TV. It's faster, not as buggy, supports Airplay and AppleTV, I was quite pleased after updating having one remote, no third party boxes plugged in and a seamless UI with what appears stock like android tv. I hope Sony don't do an update pushing ads. Saying that I run a dns blocker on my router so maybe I do get ads but they are blocked. Ads / bigdata seems to be the bullshit jobs of the modern world with ads driving us more and more to a dystopian future with more data acquisition then driving more ads then driving more data acquisition and on.

Hnrobert42 6y ago

This guy is remarkably calm about seeing this ad. I would be apoplectic. I would pick up the tv that instant and return it. If they wouldn’t accept it, I would douse it in lighter fluid and light it ablaze in their parking lot. But the last t.v. I owned was a CRT 15 years ago, so the idea that a t.v. plays its own ads is new to me.

FpUser 6y ago

>"Is there no escape from this stuff?" There is. The last time I had TV acting as TV was some 15 years ago or so. Since then even if it is a TV it is hooked up to my computers as a monitor without its own access to the Internet.

Daho0n 6y ago

The fix is better laws as they must be lacking because my LG also have ads but they are opt-in. Guess it's because my TV is Nordic, not US.

darth_avocado 6y ago

Just no. I paid the full amount on the TV, and you made a profit on it. So no, you should not be able to show ads and make more money off me, without my consent (which I don't give you). I am NOT going to turn off my wifi or stop updating its OS. I paid the full amount for the TV, I will expect full features to be functional at all times.

millstone 6y ago
But they didn't make a profit. TVs are sold nearly at cost.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  Do you have a source for this? I've heard the narrative before, but I find it slightly hard to believe there's that much value in (likely) poorly targeted ads from a system that manufacturers will probably drop backend support for in a few years.
- darth_avocado 6y ago
  That is not at all true. On an average, TVs have a 10% margin of the manufacturers, this tends to be way higher for newer models. If they are sold at nearly at cost, there's no point for most manufacturers to even be in the business.

rachelbythebay 6y ago

> Now I’m fully aware that it’s not unusual to see ads placed around a TV’s home screen or main menu. This kind of acceptance is the problem. Push back! Don't buy this shit.

canadianfella 6y ago
Acknowledging reality isn’t the same as acceptance.
dredmorbius 6y ago
Given that the choice is increasingly not "buy an alternative product" but "abstain from the market entirely". That's possible for TVs (I've never owned one personally, though I've ived in households which have. I don't watch). But cars, refrigerators, stoves, washing machines, thermostats, rental housing ... ? Some of those absolute essentials and necessities. Laws and massive class-action lawsuits. Excellent On The Media segment featuring Shoshana Zuboff from December 2020, mentioned elssewhere on this thread: https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.wnyc.org/otm/otm121820_cms1075697_pod.mp3 https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.wnyc.org/otm/...
- nicbou 6y ago
  I do abstain from the market. It's not a conscious effort, but it discourages me every time I think I'd like one of those things. My friend is selling her TV at a decent price, but when I learned it's a Samsung I lost interest. I don't trust Samsung with any sort of hardware. I also don't trust new motorbikes with their computer-assisted everything. ABS and traction control are my last stop. I'm also fine with simple appliances, because they never felt like something that would benefit from a computer. I still have a dumb 720p projector. I'm sure I can find an upgrade, but those Internet-connected projectors are not in consideration. I like devices that are functional, in the programming sense. Simple inputs, simple outputs, no side effects.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Again, for emphasis: this is not just about television. You cannot buy a modern car without a computer, and increasingly, without a cellular modem in it. TV can be foregone, housing cannot. Small and major appliances are effectively only available in surveillance-enabled versions. Neither "vote with your wallet" nor "abstain" are viable options. And again: laws and lawsuits.

ulisesrmzroche 6y ago

To play devils advocate, without ads and DRM stuff, how are artists supposed to make money? Another point is that you can’t expect to get that caliber of TV for that price without ads. If you don’t want ads, don’t buy the TV. Not that TV anyway. Just like no one is entitled to getting paid for their art, no one is entitled to entertainment.

fadzlan 6y ago
> Another point is that you can’t expect to get that caliber of TV for that price without ads. Just want to understand the argument. Not using any smart tv at the moment, maybe in the future, we'll see. So we should expect ads on expensive TVs now? USD 1500 is very expensive for me at least. I was expecting something good but cheaper to be subsidized by ads, not the really expensive ones.
syntactic-sugar 6y ago
Artists are not entitled to make a living, and certainly not at the cost of ever encroaching adtech. "Just don't buy the tv" would be a valid objection if the fact that advertising was included in the set was made abundantly clear at the point of sale, and if there were adfree alternatives readily available. Neither seems to be the case.
mcyukon 6y ago
Hmmm? For digital content, I pay a fee each month of which a certain amount is supposed to go towards the artists. Netflix Canada $14.99/month Disney Plus $11.99/month Amazon Prime $7.99/month Spotify $9.99/month For cable TV content which I don't have, The channels run ads. Which makes the channel owner money who then is supposed to pay the artists. If the artists aren't getting anything from that, that's a problem between them and their distributor. A problem that isn't going to magically get fixed by a TV OS running ads, of which the artist very likely never sees a cent of either. Lets say Netflix was free, and they ran ads in their content. Would I have a problem with that? No, they are providing free content and I would not mind watching ads. Or how about cable TV? People are already paying for Channels and getting blasted with Ads every 15 min or so, why should the TV OS "layer" Ads on top of Ads? I own a LG TV... it's not allow to access my network because of Ad "Layers" and I run everything through an Apple TV. At least that way, I see no Ads on paid content, and just 1 layer of ads on free content.

anothernewdude 6y ago

You wouldn't accept a TV that just took 15 seconds to respond to a button push. Why accept this?

neonihil 6y ago

I never liked (or even understood) the concept of a smart tv. “Do I want to replace my player hardware every time I get a new display?” The answer was a definite no. I ended up buying shiny new 65” 4K HDR Smart TV only because they didn’t sell it in dumb version. I duct taped it’s Ethernet port, and shielded it from wifi. (Just an image... but never let it connect). It’s only a display for Kodi and a gaming pc. ... And they lived happily ever after, without ever thinking about updates. End of story. (Pre-answers for the usual questions: I banished TV from my life in 1998. This “display” never seen an antenna. I read news papers, actual physical copies arriving in mail. And hacker news, ofc. I’m only ~30 years old. And yes it is a way, and I don’t see how TV is missing from my life)

squarefoot 6y ago
> I never liked (or even understood) the concept of a smart tv. It's perfectly understandable from the manufacturer point of view: a more complex, programmable, platform that can be instructed to show ads or grab personal data. I'm expecting the same behavior from every connected piece of technology we will put in our homes/cars/bodies. > I duct taped it’s Ethernet port, and shielded it from wifi. (Just an image... but never let it connect). Thanks to 5G (which is a good thing in itself) most of them will connect anyway, and some already attempt to find unprotected WiFi hotspots to get online.
- cced 6y ago
  Source on the claim?
  - squarefoot 6y ago
    I couldn't find the reference, sorry, however I'm sure I read it here from some user who wanted to keep offline his Smart TV by not giving it any encrypted WiFi credentials, but found it attempting to connect anyway through open ones. Someone already found Smart TVs using hardcoded DNS addresses (although they obtain their own address through a DHCP request) which has the side effect of bypassing anti-adware/malware tools such as Pi-Hole. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25313480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25313480 Ignoring the user choice of keeping a SmartTV offline by looking for the nearest open network (or possibly using 5G in the future) would be just one step away.

RandyRanderson 6y ago

Great site: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

This is why I still use a 720p LCD TV from the early 2000s. Am I ever tempted to get a bigger, higher-def, TV? Sure, but then I remember that they're all "smart" and realize I don't actually have a problem with how I'm watching TV now. I don't want smart anything in my house. My lights are hardwired to a switch on the wall. My washer and drier need me to turn dials and push buttons and go ding when they're done. My fridge has no microprocessor in it. I honestly don't understand people who want all this internet connected garbage. These things weren't broke, they don't need fixing!

xvector 6y ago
> I honestly don't understand people who want all this internet connected garbage. Because it’s convenient. As I leave work, my home’s AC turns on. When I arrive and open the door, my lights fade on and my blinds gradually roll up. My music seamlessly transitions to my home theatre with a tap. If someone’s at my door, it appears on my TV. When it’s time to go to bed I can turn everything off with a murmur. Adjust my temperature to be absolutely perfect without getting out of bed. When it’s time to wake up, the lights gradually increase in intensity, and my blinds automatically open again. I can ask for my schedule and whether I need a jacket while getting ready for work. Have my car turn on the AC as I leave my apartment, and have my lights, blinds, and AC automatically turn off when I leave home. The little things add up. Life in a connected home is easier. I can spend the time saved on things that actually matter. All that is well worth the marginal privacy impact of HomeKit for most people.
- the_cat_kittles 6y ago
  i think people who repair and make stuff hate these sorts of things because they introduce a layer of complexity that ruins longevity and predictability. what you call convenience, i call added costs down the line, and unreliability. also, the "time saved" is a bit like saying modal editors are good because you can enter text more efficiently. its all technically true, but seems irrelevant to me (and i use vim exclusively). but i have to concede that this idea of IOT home convenience stuff may be legitimately useful for some people, like yourself. it just seems to be the case that thats only true for some people.

yeeeee 6y ago

So network filter on your router maybe the best solution. Not only for TV ads but annoying app ads.

kristofferR 6y ago

This is pretty misleading, ads can be turned off from the settings. It shouldn't be like that of course, but nobody "have to watch ads".

freebuju 6y ago

This is why you only connect to your TV through a pi-hole network.

userbinator 6y ago

I wonder how much demand there is for services to "dumb down" smart TVs --- paying someone to replace the motherboard with a dumb one (search online for "universal scaler board"; the "3663" is a common model), for those who don't want to do it themselves.

dylan604 6y ago
More than the manufacturers want to admit

_tom_ 6y ago

Buy a monitor. Hook it to an Apple TV, or some other reasonably well behaved source.

batiudrami 6y ago

On my 2019 E9 there is an option to turn off ads and another for content recommendations. Did it on day 1 and haven’t seen an ad on my TV since. Maybe this is different in the US?

whalesalad 6y ago

Just don’t connect your tv to the internet. Easy peasy.

ziml77 6y ago

Only if you use the "smart" features. If you don't want ads, get a Shield or Apple TV.

johnnymonster 6y ago

Pinhole whole home ad blocking!!!

SmellTheGlove 6y ago

This is nuts. We're moving soon and I thought I might get a bigger, 4K TV. We've been using the 720p plasma I bought in 2005 + a 1080p 47" from like 2009. Not bad by any stretch, but I'm curious how 4K would look on a larger display, and prices seem pretty good these days. Then I read stuff like this. Can I still buy a dumb TV? I'll pay more. Who sells them still? Or, like, can I open this thing up and take out the wifi antenna or something? I'd block it at the router, but I hear they also try and connect to open APs. Awful trend.

fy20 6y ago
> Can I still buy a dumb TV? Most of the big names sell displays designed for commercial use (e.g. the screens you see at entrances to shopping centers), which are basically just big monitors, so no smart stuff, other than maybe being able to turn it on/off remotely. However instead of a $800 TV you are probably talking $5000 - not that the tech is much different, it's just that it's designed for commercial use. Is not seeing ads worth that much more for you?
- bekindandopen 6y ago
  Yes, of course. A nice TV is a sizeable appliance that should live for 10-20 years. If I couldn't buy a fridge or microwave that didn't show ads on its smart display, I'd also be happy to pay a big premium for a commercial model. I probably shouldn't give appliance companies ideas, but I'd give even odds that we'll be having that conversation within 10 years anyways.
- SmellTheGlove 6y ago
  Yeah I'll pay more for a TV that doesn't collect data or show ads. I'd probably also be willing to buy the cheaper model, open it, and remove the wifi antenna/hardware if blocking its MAC at the router doesn't work.

Rastonbury 6y ago

For Android TV, you can configure NextDNS for tracking and ad blocking. I have the a xiaomi TV, the frequency at which it pings home is quite ludicrous.

yellowapple 6y ago

> This stuff can come off as invasive, but it’s also partially what’s steadily brought the prices down on even high-end TVs. Is it? I highly doubt ad revenue on these TVs puts anything more than a single-digit dent on the dollar pricetag, and Sceptre's TVs - without smarts at all, let alone ads - are able to undercut those pricetags without much (if anything) in the way of sacrificed quality.

diebeforei485 6y ago

What's the best "dumb" TV? With no Wi-Fi or apps on it.

yellowapple 6y ago
Anything by Sceptre. Dirt cheap, good quality. 4K. Can't go wrong.

ornornor 6y ago

Most tv manufacturers are on my shitlist because of that. I bought a Panasonic OLED a couple years ago. It’s 55” and it’s top of the range (same panel as the LGs, better software. They’re the reference screens they use in Hollywood to color movies in post apparently) I paid 1000$ for it, new, with two years of warranty. It has no ads, period. Except on the YouTube app but these are from YouTube themselves. I use Kodi to stream YT instead. Oh and it boots in 5 seconds flat, from pressing the power button to content on screen. I guess there might still be a few reputable tv makers that don’t do ads or content recognition. Panasonic is one at least on that particular model. I’ll never buy an LG or Samsung for these reasons and will probably stick to Panasonic.

fakedang 6y ago
Can concur! Panasonic seems to not have caught onto the TV ads trend.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  My four year old Panasonic shows ads in the apps screen.
jjtheblunt 6y ago
We have a 3 year old 65 inch Sony and it behaves just fine also.
- kenhwang 6y ago
  I used to scratch my head at who would pay a $500-1000 premium for a Sony when it just uses an LG panel. But after owning an LG for several years now and seeing it get more and more ads with every update, I think the premium on the Sony is worth it for an ad-free clean experience.
  - jjtheblunt 6y ago
    Agreed, as I had an LG before that, and loved it; our trick was wait for year end new models essentially the same to come out, and Best Buy to discount the prior year models.

monksy 6y ago

If you bought it from costco.. you should take it back.

tvbuzz 6y ago

Manufacturers forget what they do best: make tv's Once they don't see the revenue they're expecting and realize that if all TV's come this way, most of us would be willing to pay MORE for 'no ads'... we will be back to where we were 5 yrs. ago.

myrandomcomment 6y ago

If you look at my comment history you will see this answer posted before, not worth typing again as this is the (some larger number of times) we have had a thread on this subject. “I just bought the TV I wanted and never connected it to the internet, never ran the "setup". I use an AppleTV 4K which has all the streaming apps you want (Netflix, Amazon, BBC, Pluto, etc.). For local media I use an application called MrMC ($6.99) which is a Kodi port to the AppleTV that allows you to mount Samba/NFS (https://mrmc.tv https://mrmc.tv). MrMC even supports using a SQL backend for keeping track of your media (like Kodi). I just run it in on a jail in my TrueNAS setup. Every TV is the same, every time someone starts MrMC everything is in sync. Nice and simple.”

fnord77 6y ago

can't wait until cars start having ads on their infotainment screen while you're stopped at a stop light

eschaton 6y ago

Did you ever wonder why your TV was only $1500?

anticensor 6y ago
Should it have costed $5000 instead?

dehrmann 6y ago

I do appreciate how up-front Amazon is with Kindles. There's a toggle on the product page between the ad-supported one and the ad-free one. $30 difference. They've been doing this for a long time, so I assume enough customers want it to make it worthwhile.

utf_8x 6y ago
Not to mention they will disable the ads for you if you contact their support, for free, no questions asked...

pabs3 6y ago

Would be great if you could install Linux on your TV to avoid this sort of thing. Perhaps one day SamyGO will be usable on some TVs. https://www.samygo.tv/ https://www.samygo.tv/

secretsatan 6y ago

I do everything through my PS4, it's got the streaming apps I want, it's fast and reactive unlike the built in smart tv interface which is a bit slow and laggy. And although it's only happened to me 2-3 times in the 3 years I had this Sony TV, I really, really resent having to reboot it because it's had a couple of weird glitches.

durnygbur 6y ago

No subscription, price, or arrangement will defend you against ads. You uproot them and fundamentally reject them, or your children will be indoctrinated by global predators selling liquids oversaturated with sugar and gas.

3guk 6y ago

At this stage, these threads are getting kind of boring, it's clear that almost all manufacturers are in a race to the bottom in terms of cost - and now the only way that they can compete on price is by bundling adverts into your internet connected set. All talk of "voting with your wallet" doesn't work when there are literally no "smart" consumer sets that can compete on features and are without adverts. If you really wish to have your smart TV connected to the internet - I've listed some of the adservers that you can block at : https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Smart_TV_Adverts https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Smart_TV_Adverts - however this is also going to be a tiresome game, as manufacturers will just seek to find more creative ways to serve adverts. The reality is though, if you want to avoid this behaviour - buy the set that has the screen that you want and only connect it to the internet if you wish to do a software update. Only software update if your set has a bug that the advertised firmware actually fixes, as newer updates tend to add more "features" - adverts, slower apps etc etc. Use something like and AppleTV or a Roku device connected via HDMI if you really need smart features - but be aware even the likes of Roku / Nvidia Shield / FireTV will at some point in the future also be serving you adverts. I've also heard that some sets are trying to find open wifi networks - if you are really that worried, cut the traces on the wifi card inside the set and hope that manufacturers don't start to use ethernet over HDMI.

benhurmarcel 6y ago
If one wishes to use the "smart" features without ads, so far DNS blocking still works. The simplest solution is to set up https://nextdns.io https://nextdns.io with the lists for smart TVs. I've done it with a recent Samsung one and it works perfectly, without ads. For sure if one day TVs use their own DNS, the solution would be to not connect them and not use their "smart" features. But until then, it works.

colinb 6y ago

Is this US-only thing? I have an LG and a Samsung TV, both less than 4 years old. Neither do this. I'm inside the EU, so I wonder if GDPR is protecting me from the misbehavior. Failing that, I guess, there's always the PiHole DNS shenanigans. But you shouldn't have to be the IT guy/gal just to help your next-door neighbor watch their damn TV.

Sander_Marechal 6y ago
It's not. I'm in The Netherlands and last year my fairly new Samsung TV started serving me ads. I was so pissed off, if the TV had still been under warranty I would have returned it. I have now pi-holed my entire network. My next TV will be a dumb screen.
tungdo 6y ago
I live in Germany. My Samsung (less than 1 year old) serves Ads even if I'm watching videos on my USB. Their Support denied this and claimed Netflix is showing Ads, but they update Eula software later to ask for consent. It seems that they have tried this before. https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Samsung-Smart-TVs-blenden-Werbung-ueber-abgespielte-lokale-Inhalte-2545924.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Samsung-Smart-TVs-bl...

tpush 6y ago

I'm in Germany and have the LG B7 Oled. After the last update it wanted me to review the settings for EULA agreements etc. It defaulted to disagree and I just never set it to agree. I've still never seen an ad on this TV. Guess GDPR counts for something!

daveoc64 6y ago

I'm in the UK and own two LG Smart TVs (a 65SM8600PLA and a 82UN85006LA). I've never seen any ads on the 65" model, and the 82" model had a toggle to switch them off. In the past, I was always against buying any device with features integrated into it (like a TV/DVD combo), but after actually using a smart TV (I had a Panasonic Smart TV before these LG TVs), I can't see any reason why I'd want to stop using the built-in apps like Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Disney+, BBC iPlayer, and YouTube. The apps work well, and the convenience of them being integrated into the TV is hard to argue with. Sure, I could watch the same content with the Chromecast, PC, Xbox Series X, or DVR - all connected via HDMI, but what would that actually offer over the TV's own apps?

beezischillin 6y ago

Samsung uses the same domains for everything on their smart TVs: the app remote, app store and ads. Despite how relatively usable their Tizen smart TV OS is having to turn off Pi-Hole every time they disappear an app from your home-screen to find it again in the App Store is frustrating. But at least what I paid for is mine...

nottorp 6y ago

Yet he owns an Xbox... doesn't that cram ads in the menus as well?

imagine99 6y ago

I recommend looking at Digital Signage Displays instead (NEC is pretty good but there are many name brands). They have most of the TV tech you need and none of the TV tech you don't want. They are rated to run 16 to 24 hours a day, so they can possibly last much longer than a consumer TV. They do Wi-fi the way it's supposed to be done (you can remote control them from your PC or via local web interface, no cloud necessary). They have neat features such as DisplayPort, daisy-chaining, calibration etc. There are even models that have integrated slots for Raspberry Pis or NUCs or you can just plug in a Fire Stick/Chromecast or what have you and use Plex or any of the multitude of other solutions to build your own Smart TV. I'd estimate you pay approx. $300-$500 premium for that convenience on a 65" 4k screen. I guess that's what not stealing your data is worth over the life of the device. I can live with that, as this ensures that I get enterprise/industrial-level quality and a professional feature set and none of the annoyances of Smart TVs.

voidbip 6y ago

I am actually in the market for a new TV. Are all of them like this now? For me this is an absolute deal breaker. I would be willing to pay more specifically to not have this 'feature'. Can anyone suggest brands or TV lines that do not have this?

gambiting 6y ago

I've just checked - no ads on my 2020 LG CX(yet?).

lmilcin 6y ago

For now I am just using large older monitor for TV. It would be nice to have something that can be guaranteed to not snoop on my life but for now I JUST CAN'T FIND ANY. Which is super frustrating.

thebruce87m 6y ago

My ~4 year old LG OLED had a firmware update last week and the Automatic Content Recognition license agreement option was clicked automatically - I.e. your TV will record and send clips of what you are watching (even your own home movies) and send it to a server to determine what the content is so that it can serve you personalised ads. See here: consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smart-tv-snooping-features/ LG seem to call it “Live Plus”. Just a heads up to anyone who might be unaware.

peanut_worm 6y ago

I recommend anyone looking for a TV get a signage TV and a chromecast/pi/computer instead of a smart tv. I noticed a lot of smart tvs are underspecced for their own operating system and lag horribly. My parents TV takes like 2 minutes to start.

aussieguy1234 6y ago
I'm in the market for a new tv. Any pros/cons of doing this? I'll use Kodi which is installed on an old laptop

bradgranath 6y ago

"My $25 drone stopped working!" "My free Facebook account was disabled!" "My $1,500 Popular Brand 55" OLED 4K TV has ads!" I say again: 1 click mega e commerce has destroyed our concept of value.