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Regular afternoon naps linked to improved cognitive function
- theelous3 6y ago> The average length of nighttime sleep was around 6.5 hours in both groups, though no information was taken on the specific duration or timing of the naps taken Sounds like they were just underslept people?
- jb775 6y agoI'd think 6.5 hours is above or close to the average amount of sleep most people get.
- methyl 6y agoBut not what most people should get.
- ithkuil 6y agoWould the extra time work even if want an afternoon nap but a longer night sleep?
- 01100011 6y agoLately I've noticed I do much better off 5.5-6.5 hours of sleep. I've been fighting brain fog and fatigue lately so occasionally I try to force myself to sleep more and it just makes my problems worse.
- pmiller2 6y agoI don't know about you, but I need, and typically get between 7-9 hours of sleep per night. Less than 7 and I feel sleep deprived. More than 9 and I don't feel sleep deprived per se, but I don't have much energy (physical or mental), either.
- jb775 6y agoI recently read "Why we sleep" by Matthew Walker (pretty good book overall). He provides evidence that states the ideal amount of daily sleep is between 7-8 hours. Any more or less is detrimental to overall health.
- random_thoughts 6y ago"Matthew Walker's "Why We Sleep" Is Riddled with Scientific and Factual Errors" https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/ https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/
- jb775 6y agoJust read this over, many major topics of the book aren't addressed here such as improved memory & brain function, improved reaction time, reduction of Alzheimer's(by sleep flushing the brain of certain toxins consistently linked to Alz), importance of sleep cycle timing(deep REM sleep vs lighter REM sleep, etc), and possible links to Autism. I also noticed a response to a question on memory from the article's author saying something like "well I didn't look into the impacts on memory so I can't comment on that". Also, this reads as a hit piece in general involving significantly less research and details involved, so I'd take it with a grain of salt.
- 55555 6y agoOn the other hand, it shouldn't be so easy to find evidence of the author taking creative liberty with data. If he is willing to change data in one place to fit his narrative, then you ought to take the whole book with a mountain of salt, unless you have the time to investigate every claim yourself.
- MattRix 6y agoOf course many topics of the book aren’t covered, this entire post is only about chapter one! If you actually read the post you will see it is pretty damning.
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- Berobero 6y ago- Average sleep varies fairly significantly internationally (https://www.economist.com/1843/2018/03/01/which-countries-get-the-most-sleep https://www.economist.com/1843/2018/03/01/which-countries-ge...), and regionally just in the US (https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/data_statistics.html https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/data_statistics.html) - Average sleep is, obviously, not necessarily optimal; recommendations seem to tend towards 7+ hours on average (e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/how_much_sleep.html https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/how_much_sleep.html), and there's of course data to support that recommendation (again https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/data_statistics.html https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/data_statistics.html)
- taxcoder 6y agoThe data is interesting, but I am always skeptical of self-reported sleep times. It seems there is a sense of pride some people take in sleeping less than others.
- jb775 6y agoWould be interesting to look at smart watch data to see actual averages. You can tell when a person is sleeping by watching their motion activity (obviously) in combination with a drop in heart rate.
- Berobero 6y agoThere's definitely reason to be suspect, although it looks like, on the average, it might be the reverse of what you seem to be expecting (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2785092/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2785092/): "Our model suggests that persons sleeping 5 and 7 hours over-reported, on average, by 1.3 and 0.3 hours respectively." For self-reporting sleep studies, perhaps people have it in their head that 8 hours is how much they're "supposed" to sleep and they over-report to better match that? Of note, however, while the CDC data I linked comes from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System which does appear to be merely a self-reporting survey question (https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/surveillance.html https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/surveillance.html), the data in the Economist article comes from an app (www.sleepcycle.com). Granted, I suspect the latter almost surely suffers from some kind of non-trivial selection bias.
- comeonseriously 6y agoSounds like most people are underslept.
- eigenspace 6y agoThen the average person is underslept.
- michaelcampbell 6y agoEven if it is (which I believe it is not; my memory thinks it's higher) that doesn't mean that they aren't underslept at that amount.
- trianglem 6y agoThese are people aged over 60. This is kind of normal for that age group.
- wilsonfiifi 6y agoIn case anyone’s interested, here’s a Wikipedia article [0] about that good afternoon siesta! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta
- etothepii 6y agoI tried polyphasic sleeping for a while when I worked at an IBank. I remember it as one of the most productive periods of my life but it was incredibly anti social and got the strangest looks from management. I'd do 35 minute naps with an alarm at 0430, 0830, 1230, 1630, and without an alarm at 2030 and 0030 (on the basis that I thought my body would sleep through if I was "doing any damage"). It made going out at the weekends or playing poker in a casino incredibly difficult so after 3 weeks I had to pack it in. I was lucky to live a 5 minute, folding, bicycle ride from the office but I also had a little card I'd leave on my desk for the corner that said, "I have not collapsed I'm having a nap." The one thing I've kept from those days is that I still wear a sleep mask to bed.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- hntrader 6y agoYou're blessed to be able to get to sleep so rapidly. For me, the stress of that type of job + coffee would kill that ability. Even without these two antagonists I would have no hope of being able to do that.
- ycombinete 6y agoCoffee is the killer here. I never ever used to nap. I quit caffeine almost a year ago, and within a month of quitting, I started enjoying the occassional mid afternoon nap. Not everyday, just when I was tired. It's nice to know when I'm tired actually.
- tubularhells 6y agoHave you ever tried? Coffee is easy to cut. Just don't have any at home.
- hntrader 6y agoYeah, it still takes me 60 minutes to sleep, because my mind is busy. I need meditation, medication, or something.
- layer8 6y ago...in people aged 60 and over.
- bpodgursky 6y agoYeah it's kind of ridiculous to not include this. It's like a headline, "Eating every 2 hours shown to improve cognitive function [in infants aged 0-6 weeks]"
- m463 6y ago"Eating every 8 hours shown to improve tail and whisker growth [in <you can guess>]"
- Tenoke 6y agoGiven that over 60s are well documented to have lower melatonin levels, sleep less deeply and less at night it's easy to imagine why they might benefit more from naps.
- gfodor 6y agoThe big new parenting hack I discovered late in the game are 2-3 scheduled 20 minute naps. Totally mitigates the worst effects of sleep fragmentation and depravation. You don’t feel 100% but the 80% you do feel makes it way different than the abject misery of going a whole day after 2-3 hours of sleep. The scheduled part is critical since it ensures you get to the point where your body drops right to REM and you actually get your naps instead of presuming you will find the time and then life manages to get in the way.
- adamnemecek 6y agoI’m not surprised. You are most productive from like 9 to 12. A nap allows you to have two productive sessions.
- t-writescode 6y agoThat’s certainly not when I’m most productive. 4-7pm crowd here!
- adamnemecek 6y agoAre you employed? I had weird productivity times when I was employed but when I quit my job I realized my productivity times are actually early in the morning. The best days are when I start working at 7 am. But noon, you have done a whole day.
- t-writescode 6y agoEmployed 10 or 11 years now. I’m in my mid 30s. Some people are just wired differently :)
- layer8 6y agoOnly people with a morning chronotype. I'm more productive in the late afternoon and evening.
- redcalx 6y agoI find if I'm working on a difficult problem, I feel like I can make more rapid progress if I take a 'nap' early afternoon in that post lunch drowsy period. I often start thinking about the problems again immediately on waking, and typically find that is the most productive period in terms of breakthroughs and making mental connections. I put 'nap' in quotes because I don't set an alarm (unless there is specific need to), and for me that usually means a 2 hour sleep! I figure that is made up of 90 mins of one sleep cycle, and some time either side for falling asleep and waking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_cycle All made possible by pandemic working from home.
- singingfish 6y ago45 minutes is a good period as it gets you to the beginning of your REM cycle. I often aim for 45 minutes as a nap, but for reasons I don't understand, 20 minutes can be disproportionately invigorating.
- redcalx 6y agoAs I understand it REM sleep is at the start and end of each cycle, thus 45 mins would put you squarely in a deep non-REM phase. That said, the cycles get progressively shorter in an overnight sleep, so it's possible a daytime nap sleep cycle would be much shorter than the full 90 mins.
- singingfish 6y agoFrom memory (my 25 year old psychology degree which I clearly misremembered previously), the point of 45 minutes is that it gets you to just before the deep sleep cycle. If you can wake up naturally and alert at around that time mark then you've got the complete light sleep part of the cycle.
- m463 6y agoIf I don't set an alarm, my head feels like cement afterwards.
- 6y ago
- themodelplumber 6y agoInteresting that the article is so dementia-focused, which I didn't expect. Personally, naps do enough good for me that I regularly use L-theanine or melatonin to help those happen. I've also been experimenting with taking L-theanine about an hour after waking in the morning, to encourage pre-noon naps, usually happening sometime between 8-11 am. This is because overnight sleep quality and sleep cycles can vary from day to day, so I find a bit of a "reset" nap in a more controlled environment (my office) can provide additional mood and executive support. It seems a bit ridiculous now to consider how much of a daily energy bet I was making on the outcome of a single 6-10 hour overnight period, which could be affected/moderated by all kinds of factors.
- mckirk 6y agoL-theanine is awesome! I'm wondering though, are you using melatonin during the day to take naps?
- themodelplumber 6y agoI agree! Yep, I do use melatonin during the day but at a lowered dose. Usually 150mcg or half of one of the tablets I take at night. 300mcg is for me nearly a guarantee that I'll nap for 3 hours, and those oversleep results (depending on last night's sleep, but usually it'd be oversleep) are not enjoyable at all. Edit: I've also taken a quarter tablet or about 75mcg to calm down after a long day, and I'm glad I tried it.
- mckirk 6y agoThat's really interesting, I hadn't considered that it could be used for naps! Have you noticed it "confusing" your circadian rhythm at all? As in, do you need to take extra care to not get your rhythm out of whack when you use it during daytime daytime? Intuitively, that would be the biggest potential downside I can see. Also, I'm honestly a bit jealous that you have 300mcg tablets; the best I could find is 1mg in a capsule and to split that I have to do volumetric dosing. But at least it's not the insane amounts you exclusively find in American pharmacies, heh.
- imwally 6y agoI’ve always been jealous of those who can nap. For whatever reason my body just doesn’t want to fall asleep. Even at night it usually takes me over an hour to fall asleep. Anyone else unable to nap?
- DamnInteresting 6y agoI have the same shortcoming; when I try to nap I seldom succeed. When I do succeed, I usually awake feeling worse, like I have whole-body morning mouth. I wish I had that napping power, I've seen what it can do for others.
- I_AM_A_SMURF 6y agoI used to be able to fall asleep anytime anywhere. Then I got diagnosed with Sleep Apnea. Now that I'm treating it and actually getting a good sleep it's very hard to nap, maybe these people are just sleep deprived? or a lot of them anyway.
- dimal 6y agoI used to only be able to nap very rarely. Then I noticed that on the few days that I did nap, I had usually exerted myself physically. Then I started exercising regularly, just 2-3x a week at first. And suddenly, was able to nap. I actually just woke up from my regular Saturday afternoon nap. It’s wonderful.
- nradov 6y agoAlso unable to nap. I usually sleep fine at night, no insomnia. But I can't fall asleep in the afternoon unless I'm severely sleep deprived. Even being physically tired from hard labor or exercise doesn't really make me able to nap.
- randycupertino 6y agoHere's a trick my coworker invented that helps me fall asleep: Spell the name of an author you like forwards, and then backwards, and then forwards again, and backwards, repeating and repeating until you fall asleep. I've gotten to the point where I do it 2x and am out.
- singingfish 6y agoI use this concept of a "billable nap" ... it gets to the midafternoon and I'm deep in a programming problem, and my thought process gets far too fuzzy. So I can either spend a couple of hours or more struggling through, or I can shut my eyes for a bit 20 minutes idelally, and then nail the problem down in a much shorter time than without the nap.
- pmiller2 6y agoThat can be a pretty hard sell if you work in an office for a company that doesn't have dedicated nap pods. I've never really felt comfortable taking a nap at the office, myself.
- singingfish 6y agoyeah it's much easier to achieve as a remote worker in a different time zone. In my time zone, my nap time tends to coincide with things winding up for the day at the mothership.
- pmiller2 6y agoEven in the same time zone, it would be relatively easy for me to disappear for 30 minutes after lunch. All I'd have to do is block it off on my calendar as "busy," and nobody would ever say anything, which is how it should be when you're an adult working with other adults.
- I_AM_A_SMURF 6y agoYeah, my work pays me the same whether I work 40 or 60 hours, so I cut my day short whenever I know I'm not gonna be productive. Usually it saves me a few hour of struggling and the solution comes to me first thing in the morning. I'm also the top 5% committer in my company even though I almost never touch 35h/week (caveat: I don't advertise this behavior at work and I work from home). Companies would really do themselves a favor cutting the day short, 40h of coding/meetings/etc a week is way too much for a lot of people.
- neiman 6y agoWhile regular afternoon naps may be linked to improved cognitive function, regular afternoon naps after food are strongly linked to my stomach aches.
- irishloop 6y agoI have a very difficult time falling asleep if I know I have to wake up shortly.
- DevKoala 6y agoIt doesn’t sound like other variables were eliminated in this study. For example, what if everybody who is able to take a nap held and office job and is now retired while those who don’t nap still have to work? Sometimes I will go nap with a problem in my head and will wake up with the solution. I believe it helps, but I still don’t know if it is a placebo effect.
- christophilus 6y agoAgreed. Also, the kinds of people who have the leisure / freedom to take naps probably already have a lot of advantages over those who can’t. Those advantages might be the key difference.
- eznzt 6y agoNaps are also linked to increased consumption of Cruzcampo.
- kevindeasis 6y agoDidn't really read the article thoroughly, but it looks like there is a selection bias I've tried afternoon naps throughout my life I'm part of the distribution where it only made my cognitive function and physical performance worse. It's been years since I tried it last, so I'll def check it out. So far the best thing for my cognitive function from all my experiments is to have a good night sleep, eat healthy, meditate, have passions, and exercise. This doesn't mean Im consistent with it as sometimes it gets boring. I noticed if you want your brain to get functionally good at something, these healthy habits will only take you half way there. There are other mental models that you're not gonna learn from simply being healthy.
- xutopia 6y agoI would love to have the time for afternoon naps. I mean if I could fit it sure I'd have better cognitive functions but what's to say that staying awake and doing what I do is not more productive anyway? Maybe I don't need that jolt and can function fine without the nap... I'll have another coffee.
- grawprog 6y agoYears ago I worked for a guy from Honduras who had a strict hour long, exactly at noon lunch policy. He'd call his wife, eat his lunch, brush his teeth, then nap for the rest of lunch. I could never do the nap thing, but I always appreciated the hour long break. The naps seemed necessary for him though. If there was times he couldn't have his nap he'd get kind of grumpy and such.
- anticristi 6y agoThe title supports my current values so well, I won't even bother scrutinizing the article. :)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- lemonberry 6y agoOnce or twice a day most days I put on my eye mask and put on a guided yoga nidra session. I set my timer for 15 to 30 minutes depending on my energy level at the time. These really give me an extra boost in energy and help keep me relaxed and focused.
- tlringer 6y agoFinally, an excuse to nap
- thehoomanist 6y ago‘Researchers discover siesta’
- trustfundbaby 6y ago"Those in the habit of afternoon napping were also found to have a higher level of triglyceride, a type of fat found in the blood" This seems like a pretty important caveat.
- iambateman 6y agoEvery polyphasic sleep story: “I did this for a few months and it was incredible. Then I stopped and went back to sleeping through the night.” Is it just the social pressure, I wonder? Nevertheless, I’m glad to hear that science is confirming what seems anecdotally obvious: siestas help.
- vericiab 6y agoAwhile ago I read a blog post by someone who had stuck to an uberman schedule longer than most. From what I remember social pressure was part of the reason he stopped but more than that it was just very inflexible. Missing a nap would throw off his sleep schedule so he had to plan all his activities around napping every ~3.5 hours. That made it difficult to be spontaneous and any unexpected things that came up could end up having an outsized impact. Might be less of an issue with other polyphasic sleep schedules though, uberman seems like a bit of an extreme.
- michaelcampbell 6y agoFor me with bi-phasic it was exactly that; my family. The only way I could make it work was to sacrifice something at work or dinner time. Neither was doable for me.
- ahallock 6y agoThis is why I love working remotely. A little 15-20 min power nap makes me so much more productive.
- global-citizen 6y agoI knew there was a scientific reason [cough] why I siesta every day [ahem] :)
- spideymans 6y agoA friend of mine was up late night studying for an exam. She was getting increasingly frustrated as nothing was making sense to her. I told her to relax, go take a nap, and when you wake up everything will make sense. Three hours later I get a text from her: "OMG thank you. The nap did help me understand everything!" (I'm paraphrasing). I don't know what it is exactly, but I feel like naps almost invariably help me to understand complex problems. I suppose it's partly because my brain is still thinking about the problems while I sleep, and partly because my brain wakes up energized and ready to go, without the fog of tiredness interfering with my thoughts. Regardless, napping when I'm tired has yet to fail me whenever I'm stuck on a complex issue.
- dimnsionofsound 6y agoI did biphasic sleep in high school (1.5h nap at 16:30, 4.5h sleep at 2:00) for my junior and part of senior year, and it was incredible. It allowed me to do nearly all of my homework right when it was assigned while also having time for my hobbies. Starting the homework right after the nap was great for focus and productivity.
- dorfsmay 6y agoI used to nap regularly around lunch time but it sometimes made it difficult to dflaa asleep at a reasonable time those evenings. Then I listened to Andrew Huberman talk about doing some meditation or yoga, getting inside, at 16:00 to reset your "external" system (1). I did a fair amount of meditation in the past so thought I'd give it a try, but keep it extremely sole just focus on my breath and being a witness without getting involved with anything going on around me. I do this for 15 mins around 16:00 (depending on what's going on at work). For me it works, I feel refreshed, re-energized like after a nap, but with the advantage that I have no problem to fall asleep at night. 1: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lz3yvJ08k0Q https://youtube.com/watch?v=lz3yvJ08k0Q
- GizmoSwan 6y agoIt works even better during long winded meetings specially during video conferencing.
- ssijak 6y agoI was never able to nap in the afternoon, unless I was really tired, but I would not call that a nap. Even when I was not drinking coffee, I was still not napping. While my wife would just nap every day between 1-2pm or 20 minutes like a clockwork.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sjg007 6y agoSo I’m not lazy!
- jl2718 6y agoVery popular in military deployments.