9 ms·

>The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. It does not seem so crazy to me, after decades

by eznzt 6y ago

>The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. It does not seem so crazy to me, after decades of cultural imperialism from America, that we are mirroring the same patterns of behaviour and fighting the same battles. (Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism) If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on.

Roritharr 6y ago
>If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on. Don't worry, that's why I emphasised the loving relationship part, we really don't take our political opinions into this and wouldn't have emotional fights about them. Family comes before all that.
PopeDotNinja 6y ago
For what it’s worth, I’m an American & American politics strains my American relationship with my American friends & family. Fuck this red/blue shit.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit. A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in bathroom breaks. That’s not “red/blue” shit.
  - rossdavidh 6y ago
    Thank you for demonstrating the phenomenon so well.
  - ziggy556 6y ago
    If that's your stance then evidently you don't understand why the other "side" even exists.
    - PopeDotNinja 6y ago
      We can disagree without sworn enemies.
    - tpm 6y ago
      It exists mostly because of massive propaganda financed by very wealthy people for whom it is essential to indoctrinate masses to be even more wealthy and powerful.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I don’t understand how it’s propaganda when one can analyze labors laws in various jurisdictions and see that all the areas with labor laws better for workers and poorer people are mostly in areas governed by Democrats.
        tartoran 6y ago
        Thats the whole point, the propaganda is also disinformation and making other issues seem a lot more decisive and important than what really affects the people. The propaganda makes them vote against their interests
        tpm 6y ago
        I obviously didn't mean the side that supports labor laws better for workers.
      - IOT_Apprentice 6y ago
        Not clear why you are being downvoted. Oligarch Rebekah Mercer has funded/sponsored Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Parler and more. When their sock puppets get out of line--they lose their funding. See Steve Bannon, who now is in the pocket of a rogue Chinese Billionaire. There are many more like her and her father.
- Gravityloss 6y ago
  Do you both know of the concept of out-group homogeneity? I wonder if that would help. I experience a lot that people expect me to have all kind of weird opinions because they think I'm part of a group which they think holds these opinions. They think I'm part of that group because some of my opinions match with the group.
SllX 6y ago
> If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on. This is good advice for Americans too. The privacy of the ballot box is a cornerstone of America for a good goddamned reason.
0xfaded 6y ago
I would equally blame the stagnant and supine institutions on the other side of the Atlantic that obsess over preserving the status quo while providing no meaningful alternative to American leadership. Whether it's culture, innovation, finance, it's all the same. Europe has become reliant on America and will accept anything in the name of Diplomacy through Trade.
- DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
  Excuse me? Germany tries buying gas from Russia and the USA sanctions the fuck out of companies that are even just marginally involved in it. As for innovation, that's relative. Europe, for centuries, was the undisputed worldwide leader in innovation, now that has shifted a bit to the USA and seems to be on its way to shift to China or maybe India in the next few decades. There's also the problem that Europe can't really focus on organizing itself in a self-sufficient manner because there's still separatists bitching about everything and always screaming for separation instead of forcing governments to address issues, and the impending rise of fascism in east-europe that may or may not become a huge deal for the rest of the 2020es. The USA has this problem as well, but to a far lesser degree.
  - kanox 6y ago
    > Germany tries buying gas from Russia and the USA sanctions the fuck out of companies that are even just marginally involved in it. Good! Russia is an enemy.
    - chishaku 6y ago
      Why?
    - remarkEon 6y ago
      Why? The Cold War is over.
      - kanox 6y ago
        Russia still wants to dominate Eastern Europe and must be opposed. The US is an excellent partner in that, much better than Western EU.
DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
> If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on. This. America is not actively shoving its politics into our conversations, we're doing that ourselves (I'm from Germany as well, btw.). Yes, talking about whatever social shenanigans are currently relevant in the USA is fun, but applying those weird ideas to ones own society is a completely different thing.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
  America is funding European academics to spread its toxic ideology. It's also shoving its culture in our news, movies, music, etc. Overstating personal responsibility in this matter is naive and very American.
  - refurb 6y ago
    "Shoving"? Are you saying European news organizations don't have the freedom to cover what news they want? They choose to cover it.
  - DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
    > Overstating personal responsibility in this matter is naive and very American. Not at all. You could say it's a "western" thing, but definitely not an USA thing (although they do tend to claim it for themselves like they invented it). What's unique to the USA is the weird idea that personal responsibility is somehow a counter-argument to regulation. "Guns don't kill people, so everybody should be free to own them". At the same time, it's mostly the american left that argues against personal responsibility just because it's considered a right-wing belief. To come to a conclusion: As so often, the USA is wrong, on both sides. The only "right" mentality, in my opinion, is one that acknowledges both personal responsibility and the option for society to step in.
- mikepurvis 6y ago
  There's obviously cultural differences, but the political priorities and overall dialogue are just completely different too. Like in Canada, we already have gun registration and background checks (the "common sense" laws that Biden wants but that the NRA says are radical) and the fight is about banning specific classes of assault rifles. In Canada, we already have state health insurance, and the fight is about whether it should cover things like pharmacare, dental treatments, and counseling sessions for mental health. In Canada, the debates about abortion and gay marriage are long settled (1988 and 2003 respectively)— even discussing them is considered political suicide, and the Conservative party has at various points banned back-benchers from attempting to start the debate (for example, by putting forth weaselly, redundant laws about fetal personhood). You could easily argue that the "Conservative" party in Canada is equivalent or possibly even to the left of the mainstream Democratic party in the US. So yeah, it gets a bit weird when right-leaning people in Canada then also support Trumpian politics— sometimes it's hard to know if they're there after a considered review of the positions, or if it's just a knee jerk "pick the guy on the right" response.
claudeganon 6y ago
> Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism As an aside - why? Imperialism seems like something one should obviously oppose. Who wants their lives governed by these forces?
- eznzt 6y ago
  Might is right.
refurb 6y ago
As a Canadian, I'm shocked at the attention the minutia of US politics gets in Canada. I was visiting family and watching the 6pm news and I'd say US politics dominates Canadian national news. It's not unusual for the first 20 min of a 30 min program to be nothing but US politics. Plenty of people say "well, what happens in the US is important to Canada", but what's covered is just stupid political bickering. And it's not even coverage from a Canadian perspective, just regurgitation of what's covered in the US. Sure, when Trump says something about renegotiating NAFTA, yeah, cover that. When Trump says something stupid about the Democrats, no, that doesn't deserved prime time coverage in Canada. There are too many important things happening in Canada and the rest of the world for that to be front and center. But I understand why they do it...ratings. Covering outrageous stories gets ratings. Generating outrage gets people to tune in tomorrow to see what happens next.
- scruple 6y ago
  > When Trump says something stupid about the Democrats, no, that doesn't deserved prime time coverage in Canada. Frankly it doesn't deserve coverage here in America, either. If he hadn't been gifted billions of dollars in free advertising from all of these networks that hate watch his Twitter feed I don't think we would even have Trump as POTUS. And now he's never going to go away. And they're going to be hate watching his every step to keep "reporting the news." For the life of me I do not understand why people watch the news in this era.
- themaninthedark 6y ago
  Ratings and possibly a good distraction from how things are at home as well. As an American, I could not believe how many people, also Americans, that I knew that were distraught over Brexit.
the_duke 6y ago
> but only you two have yourselves to blame This is a very dismissive argument to make. It's just like saying Americans have just themselves to blame for this culture ware and should just stop arguing and move on. Everyone watches US TV shows and movies. Many media outlets all over the world give way too much attention to US news topics, for reasons that are not really clear to me. This kind of cultural affiliation is not a personal choice, but brought on by news media and the dominance of US entertainment.
- casion 6y ago
  And consuming those things, then accepting their premise and message wholesale, is a personal choice.
multiplegeorges 6y ago
> I'm not against imperialism > you two have yourselves to blame That's not how imperialism works.

by eznzt 6y ago

Roritharr 6y ago

>If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on. Don't worry, that's why I emphasised the loving relationship part, we really don't take our political opinions into this and wouldn't have emotional fights about them. Family comes before all that.

PopeDotNinja 6y ago

For what it’s worth, I’m an American & American politics strains my American relationship with my American friends & family. Fuck this red/blue shit.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit. A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in bathroom breaks. That’s not “red/blue” shit.
- rossdavidh 6y ago
  Thank you for demonstrating the phenomenon so well.
- ziggy556 6y ago
  If that's your stance then evidently you don't understand why the other "side" even exists.
  - PopeDotNinja 6y ago
    We can disagree without sworn enemies.
  - tpm 6y ago
    It exists mostly because of massive propaganda financed by very wealthy people for whom it is essential to indoctrinate masses to be even more wealthy and powerful.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I don’t understand how it’s propaganda when one can analyze labors laws in various jurisdictions and see that all the areas with labor laws better for workers and poorer people are mostly in areas governed by Democrats.
      - tartoran 6y ago
        Thats the whole point, the propaganda is also disinformation and making other issues seem a lot more decisive and important than what really affects the people. The propaganda makes them vote against their interests
      - tpm 6y ago
        I obviously didn't mean the side that supports labor laws better for workers.
    - IOT_Apprentice 6y ago
      Not clear why you are being downvoted. Oligarch Rebekah Mercer has funded/sponsored Breitbart, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Parler and more. When their sock puppets get out of line--they lose their funding. See Steve Bannon, who now is in the pocket of a rogue Chinese Billionaire. There are many more like her and her father.
Gravityloss 6y ago
Do you both know of the concept of out-group homogeneity? I wonder if that would help. I experience a lot that people expect me to have all kind of weird opinions because they think I'm part of a group which they think holds these opinions. They think I'm part of that group because some of my opinions match with the group.

SllX 6y ago

> If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on. This is good advice for Americans too. The privacy of the ballot box is a cornerstone of America for a good goddamned reason.

0xfaded 6y ago

I would equally blame the stagnant and supine institutions on the other side of the Atlantic that obsess over preserving the status quo while providing no meaningful alternative to American leadership. Whether it's culture, innovation, finance, it's all the same. Europe has become reliant on America and will accept anything in the name of Diplomacy through Trade.

DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
Excuse me? Germany tries buying gas from Russia and the USA sanctions the fuck out of companies that are even just marginally involved in it. As for innovation, that's relative. Europe, for centuries, was the undisputed worldwide leader in innovation, now that has shifted a bit to the USA and seems to be on its way to shift to China or maybe India in the next few decades. There's also the problem that Europe can't really focus on organizing itself in a self-sufficient manner because there's still separatists bitching about everything and always screaming for separation instead of forcing governments to address issues, and the impending rise of fascism in east-europe that may or may not become a huge deal for the rest of the 2020es. The USA has this problem as well, but to a far lesser degree.
- kanox 6y ago
  > Germany tries buying gas from Russia and the USA sanctions the fuck out of companies that are even just marginally involved in it. Good! Russia is an enemy.
  - chishaku 6y ago
    Why?
  - remarkEon 6y ago
    Why? The Cold War is over.
    - kanox 6y ago
      Russia still wants to dominate Eastern Europe and must be opposed. The US is an excellent partner in that, much better than Western EU.

DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago

> If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on. This. America is not actively shoving its politics into our conversations, we're doing that ourselves (I'm from Germany as well, btw.). Yes, talking about whatever social shenanigans are currently relevant in the USA is fun, but applying those weird ideas to ones own society is a completely different thing.

ad404b8a372f2b9 6y ago
America is funding European academics to spread its toxic ideology. It's also shoving its culture in our news, movies, music, etc. Overstating personal responsibility in this matter is naive and very American.
- refurb 6y ago
  "Shoving"? Are you saying European news organizations don't have the freedom to cover what news they want? They choose to cover it.
- DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
  > Overstating personal responsibility in this matter is naive and very American. Not at all. You could say it's a "western" thing, but definitely not an USA thing (although they do tend to claim it for themselves like they invented it). What's unique to the USA is the weird idea that personal responsibility is somehow a counter-argument to regulation. "Guns don't kill people, so everybody should be free to own them". At the same time, it's mostly the american left that argues against personal responsibility just because it's considered a right-wing belief. To come to a conclusion: As so often, the USA is wrong, on both sides. The only "right" mentality, in my opinion, is one that acknowledges both personal responsibility and the option for society to step in.
mikepurvis 6y ago
There's obviously cultural differences, but the political priorities and overall dialogue are just completely different too. Like in Canada, we already have gun registration and background checks (the "common sense" laws that Biden wants but that the NRA says are radical) and the fight is about banning specific classes of assault rifles. In Canada, we already have state health insurance, and the fight is about whether it should cover things like pharmacare, dental treatments, and counseling sessions for mental health. In Canada, the debates about abortion and gay marriage are long settled (1988 and 2003 respectively)— even discussing them is considered political suicide, and the Conservative party has at various points banned back-benchers from attempting to start the debate (for example, by putting forth weaselly, redundant laws about fetal personhood). You could easily argue that the "Conservative" party in Canada is equivalent or possibly even to the left of the mainstream Democratic party in the US. So yeah, it gets a bit weird when right-leaning people in Canada then also support Trumpian politics— sometimes it's hard to know if they're there after a considered review of the positions, or if it's just a knee jerk "pick the guy on the right" response.

claudeganon 6y ago

> Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism As an aside - why? Imperialism seems like something one should obviously oppose. Who wants their lives governed by these forces?

eznzt 6y ago
Might is right.

refurb 6y ago

As a Canadian, I'm shocked at the attention the minutia of US politics gets in Canada. I was visiting family and watching the 6pm news and I'd say US politics dominates Canadian national news. It's not unusual for the first 20 min of a 30 min program to be nothing but US politics. Plenty of people say "well, what happens in the US is important to Canada", but what's covered is just stupid political bickering. And it's not even coverage from a Canadian perspective, just regurgitation of what's covered in the US. Sure, when Trump says something about renegotiating NAFTA, yeah, cover that. When Trump says something stupid about the Democrats, no, that doesn't deserved prime time coverage in Canada. There are too many important things happening in Canada and the rest of the world for that to be front and center. But I understand why they do it...ratings. Covering outrageous stories gets ratings. Generating outrage gets people to tune in tomorrow to see what happens next.

scruple 6y ago
> When Trump says something stupid about the Democrats, no, that doesn't deserved prime time coverage in Canada. Frankly it doesn't deserve coverage here in America, either. If he hadn't been gifted billions of dollars in free advertising from all of these networks that hate watch his Twitter feed I don't think we would even have Trump as POTUS. And now he's never going to go away. And they're going to be hate watching his every step to keep "reporting the news." For the life of me I do not understand why people watch the news in this era.
themaninthedark 6y ago
Ratings and possibly a good distraction from how things are at home as well. As an American, I could not believe how many people, also Americans, that I knew that were distraught over Brexit.

the_duke 6y ago

> but only you two have yourselves to blame This is a very dismissive argument to make. It's just like saying Americans have just themselves to blame for this culture ware and should just stop arguing and move on. Everyone watches US TV shows and movies. Many media outlets all over the world give way too much attention to US news topics, for reasons that are not really clear to me. This kind of cultural affiliation is not a personal choice, but brought on by news media and the dominance of US entertainment.

casion 6y ago
And consuming those things, then accepting their premise and message wholesale, is a personal choice.

multiplegeorges 6y ago

> I'm not against imperialism > you two have yourselves to blame That's not how imperialism works.