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Vitamin D Supplementation Improves Cognitive Function: 12-month RCT
- maliker 6y agoEffect size... around 5% improvement in the FSIQ score. Not very big. Although the dose of 800 IU/day was small.
- kstrauser 6y agoThanks for the summary! On the other hand, I'd take a 5% bump basically for free.
- smallnamespace 6y ago5% is a Cohen's d* of 0.3 — a small-to-moderate effect by itself, but surprisingly large for a mere vitamin/hormone rather than a targeted drug. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_size#Cohen's_d https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_size#Cohen's_d
- iambateman 6y agoThis is specifically for older adults, not a general result. Still seems promising, though.
- zmmmmm 6y agoMoreover: > Participants were all native Chinese speakers aged 65 years and older with Mild Cognitive Impairment So - these people were re-acquiring previous cognitive function, not improving their lifetime baseline intelligence. Quite surprised based on my primitive biology that in a 12 month trial they could observe differences in telomere length. That seems a remarkable outcome and if true would suggest prolonged benefits.
- porknubbins 6y agoNot only that, older adults with mild cognitive impairment. The headline and the paper are quite different.
- ve55 6y agoIt's worth noting that vitamin D has a lot of high-confidence but low-effect results going for it, including a lot of strong meta-analysis over many health outcomes. What I mean by this is that it usually seems to conclusively either do something beneficial, but minor, almost nothing in the case of many studies, and in the case of some others, something very beneficial (as we've seen a few of in relation to covid recently). Although Vitamin D isn't a particularly exciting supplement most of the time, that isn't enough of a reason for us to ignore it, as the proper way to make the decision of taking it or not would be to perform a cost/benefit analysis (as we should with any other supplements, lifestyle changes, etc). The costs of vitamin D are just about as low as any supplement gets, and can be between $0.01 and $0.05 per day. The non-financial costs such as side effects or potential adverse effects are practically non-existent as well. So I do think that even those that have a healthy bit of skepticism over some results should still consider supplementation - there are a lot of potential benefits even if some are minor, and almost no risks or real costs. The optimal way to supplement is to get a blood test before+after starting supplementation in order to be confident you're taking the correct amount, but this isn't required of course. But I think the cost/benefit analysis is clearly in favor, so I didn't hesitate to add Vitamin D to my list of supplements that I take daily (https://nearcyan.com/supplements/ https://nearcyan.com/supplements/ if curious), along with many others at this point.
- ip26 6y agoalmost no risks or real costs I worry a little about risk compensation, or whatever the equivalent is for diet. That is to say, if I feel like I'm all set on vitamins & minerals via pills, maybe I don't need to try so hard to eat my fruits & vegetables anymore...
- ehsankia 6y agoWorth noting that the above mostly talks above Vitamin D specifically, not multivitamins. D is the only one you do not naturally get from food (ignoring fortified food), and it also as mentioned above one of the cheaper ones. Multivitamins are far more expensive in general.
- ezekiel68 6y agoFunny -- I was just digesting a competing study released recently[0] which showed little-to-no benefit from vitamin D, Omega 3 fatty acids, and exercise (either alone or in combinations). That study used 5X the daily vitamin D as this one. So I guess the jury's still out and I may choose to continue to err on the side of supplementing vitamin D. [0] https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/11/10/Study-Little-benefit-for-vitamin-D-omega-3-exercise-in-seniors/2191605028709/ https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/11/10/Study-Little-bene...
- dilap 6y agoOr just get some sunshine! It's likely there are other benefits, besides just the vitamin D.
- zmmmmm 6y agoOddly the study didn't seem to state (from the abstract anyway) if the participants were deficient in vitamin D to start with or not.
- randmeerkat 6y agoSure, but the winter climates in many geographical regions don’t provide adequate sunlight during winter.
- wincy 6y agoI was pretty amazed to Discover that Spirit Airlines is doing round trip flights for $75 to Orlando from my local airport. If you’re in the Midwest in a midsized city that’s cold and dreary in winter there’s a good chance you can find a similar deal.
- superkuh 6y agoA lot of this interest in vitamin D is motivated by the desire to not die from getting infected with sars-cov-2. Or not dying in general. Travel like that is counter-productive currently.
- jimrandomh 6y agoThis sounds like an important study, but unfortunately it is effectively unpublished; neither Google Scholar nor Sci-Hub is able to find the full text. I'm not willing to trust it without reading the methodology section, and I'm not willing to pay $32 to read it. If any of the study authors happen to read this: pay close attention to how you publish, the journals will destroy all the value of your study in exchange for a few bucks, if you let them.
- JohnJamesRambo 6y ago>2020 Nov 4. doi: 10.3233/JAD-200926. Online ahead of print. Give it time.
- dkural 6y agoFWIW It seems to published in a journal with a company that also publishes studies showing how music can help Alzheimer's etc. Not a particularly reputable source.
- MattGaiser 6y agoIs music helping Alzheimer's patients considered implausible?
- bawolff 6y agoYeah. Naively i would be more surprised if it didn't (why wouldn't stimulating the brain help with a degenerative brain disease?)
- Nasrudith 6y agoWell it depends on how you define "help". Dementia or Alzheimers is a neural disease that seems correlated with brain plaque - the underlying issue of plaque/neural self cleaning mechanism failures wouldn't be countered even if it makes them feel better and possibly slightly improve function it is still a downward slope of progressive brain damage.
- kobayashimaru 6y agoMilk and sunshine probably cheaper
- reducesuffering 6y agoVit. D supplementation is dirt cheap. Like $15 for a years worth. That’s a lot cheaper than milk.
- kevinmchugh 6y agoMilk contains 100 IU vitamin D per cup in the US. A typical supplement dose is 2000 IU.
- aantix 6y agoYou're not walking around naked like our ancestors? Do you use sunscreen in the summer? Work indoors? We're shielded from most of our potential Vitamin-D intake.
- ineedasername 6y agoThat's interesting, but they claim the effect was "substantial" and it was statistically significant, but they do not provide the magnitude of the difference. They do not provide the experimental group's baseline metric for cognitive function and the increase. It also doesn't mention anything about how it controlled for patients' initial levels of vitamin D, or what those levels were. There could be a threshold effect, for example, where raising levels to X produce the result observed, or a linear relationship between D levels & cognitive function... Certainly the full extent of things like this would require additional research, but the basics would be known just from the data collection on the patients and their results. I'm not saying I doubt the research: I know vitamin D has some interesting and diverse impacts on the body, so this result would not surprise me if it's true. But the abstract was lacking in important details. (And unfortunately the university library to which I have access does not have this journal in its databases)
- oksurewhynot 6y agowhat is the deal with hn and vitamin d
- LimitedInfo 6y agoThere was a thread on here the other month about a chronically ill person who was accidentally overdosing on Vitamin D. I believe the conclusion of the piece was don't take copious amounts of Vitamin D and assume no side effects.
- wlll 6y agoCheck the amounts. ISTR the person that you mentioned was taking a substantially higher dosage than was tried in this study.
- Devils-Avocado 6y agoIn a recent Swedish study 78% of pregnant non-European migrants had very low Vitamin D levels, vs 31% for white women: https://vitamindwiki.com/78+percent+of+pregnant+immigrants+in+Sweden+had+less+than+10+ng+low+vitamin+D+%E2%80%93+Nov+2013 https://vitamindwiki.com/78+percent+of+pregnant+immigrants+i... Low levels of Vitamin D during pregnancy contribute to schizophrenia and learning difficulties, amongst other health impacts. I wonder if the higher rate of violent crime and terrorism seen amongst Middle Eastern and African migrants in Europe, even after a second generation, is partly caused by insufficient Vitamin D levels. We should consider whether it is sensible offering refuge in northern European countries to people from these regions when they will need lifelong Vitamin D supplementation.
- jberryman 6y agoCan mods ban submissions about vitamin D please? This forum has turned into infowars...
- imwillofficial 6y agoDo you find it helpful in life to operate with more, or less information?
- treebog 6y agoWith medical information on the internet, it’s a quality over quantity situation
- hoka-one-one 6y agoMore, as long as the new information will lead people to agree with my pseudointellectual position.
- jungletime 6y agoImagine if they let older people get more sunshine in nursing homes they would have better health outcomes. Instead they locked them up even more during the pandemic. Study posted on here earlier showed link between low vitamin D and covid death. Like 60% of people that died from Covid had vitamin D deficiency. Locking up old people in cramped nursing homes, spreads communicable disease, causes mental health decline, and is just terrible for their well being and shortens their life. Thats why we need an army of robot nurses in the future, that will treat these people in their homes.
- jzer0cool 6y agoAnyone have experience using any nootropics or something else that helped with cognitive function? Some friends I know have tried adderall during school and I was curious your experience with any of these.
- aidenn0 6y agoMy sister got leukemia while part way through her doctorate. After it went into remission, she was unable to recall new information long enough to read papers and had to put her studies on hold. Eventually a doctor did a blood test that included vitamin d levels, and she was in the single digits (don't remember units but it was supposed to be at least 20). She started supplementing and graduated this spring. Just one data point, but it was pretty clear that remedying a deficiency made a marked improvement in her case.
- boyband6666 6y agoThe interesting analogy Ross Tucker (https://sportsscientists.com/who-are-we/ https://sportsscientists.com/who-are-we/) uses is adding vitamins and mineral is like adding a wheel to a car. If you onyl have 3, then adding the 4th is really going to make a massive difference. If you already have enough however, it's like adding a 5th wheel, which will essentially do nothing, and could be harmful. It works well as an explanation, as people do seem to try and reduce complex functions to simple rules, and extrapolate from specific populatiosn to create general rules (not helped by studies that are minimally generalisable)
- ozay 6y agoAlso look at Liebig's barrel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebig%27s_law_of_the_minimum#Liebig's_barrel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebig%27s_law_of_the_minimum#.... It was originally applied to plant growth, but it is a helpful metaphor for vitamin substitution.
- treeman79 6y agoSimilar story. My mind was in fragments from diseases. Vit D in low teens. Started high level vit D at start of Covid Brain function is approaching my old levels. Now I take a lot of supplements, so it’s always tricky to pin it down. But so far so goods.
- pombrand 6y agoVitamin D is vital for adaptive immune system function too! When a T-cell encounters a foreign pathogen, it extends a vitamin D receptor. A signaling device allowing it to bind to the active form of vitamin D. Only after this can T-cells perform their intended function. [1] Which is likely why healthy levels > 40 ng/mL significantly reduce COVID mortality, there's been > 2 dozen obersvational studies and at least one randomized controlled one. [2] 1. von Essen MR, Kongsbak M, Schjerling P, Olgaard K, Odum N, Geisler C (April 2010). "Vitamin D controls T cell antigen receptor signaling and activation of human T cells". Nature Immunology. 11 (4): 344–49. https://doi.org/10.1038/ni.1851 https://doi.org/10.1038/ni.1851 2. Entrenas Castillo, M., Entrenas Costa, L. M., Vaquero Barrios, J. M., Alcalá Díaz, J. F., López Miranda, J., Bouillon, R., & Quesada Gomez, J. M. (2020). "Effect of calcifediol treatment and best available therapy versus best available therapy on intensive care unit admission and mortality among patients hospitalized for COVID-19: A pilot randomized clinical study". The Journal of steroid biochemistry and molecular biology, 203, 105751. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jsbmb.2020.105751 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jsbmb.2020.105751
- devy 6y agoInterestingly, Oxidative stress is considered to the main cause of COVID-19 infection severity, according to Dr. Roger Seheult in his bio-chemistry analysis of SARS-CoV-2 in human body. He also explained why Vitamin D could help reduce the mortality of COVID-19 due to Vitamin's ability to slow down oxidative stress.[2] Dr. Seheult is the main lecturer of his popular YouTube channel MedCram[3] and is a board certified physician in Internal Medicine, Pulmonary Diseases, Critical Care Medicine and Sleep Medicine. [1]: https://youtu.be/gzx8LH4Fjic?t=28 https://youtu.be/gzx8LH4Fjic?t=28 [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdc7T2UTHBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdc7T2UTHBI [3]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG-iSMVtWbbwDDXgXXypARQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG-iSMVtWbbwDDXgXXypARQ
- AntiImperialist 6y agoWhy does it have to be supplementation? Nutrition science is mostly unreliable because it is difficult to study, is very limited and progress is slow. The supplementation industry capitalizes on this ill-reported junk science. For many years, vitamin D2 was sold as supplementation. Now it is well-known that D2 is not bioavailable to humans. Similarly, it is well-known now that even D3 is mostly useless without K2. Now, some D3 supplements come with K2. Who knows what we'll find in the future? Even more ridiculous is iron. The iron in spinach is basically rust. It is not bioavailable to humans. Not only that, it induces oxidative stress in humans. Ever heard you need anti-oxidants? You do, if you've been eating spinach or cereal fortified with rust or supplements with such iron. Our body needs a specific organic compound of iron: heme. You can't just swallow a nail and get iron from it. Vitamin A, D, E, K are all available in animal fat, in exactly the forms we can readily absorb. Animal fat has been a crucial part of diet for every human culture forever. There has never been a single exception... until recently when junk science and industry PR started selling seed oil as a "healthy" replacement. As a result, a large portion of population is deficient in these vital nutrients. Seed oil is highly problematic because... it's seed. Not only does it have no nutrients, plants don't want you to eat their seed. That is the one thing plants don't want you to eat, more than anything else. That is why they pack it with the most dangerous toxins they can come up with. Nutrition science is hard but nutrition is easy. Just eat what humans have been eating for thousands of years.
- shajznnckfke 6y agoI read that there is 15 UI of vitamin D in a steak. You need 25 or 100 times that per day. It’s more likely that humans evolved to get their vitamin D from sunlight (although we also know that introduces cancer risk) than eating a whole cow every day. It seems like you’re trying to make the facts fit your preferred narrative re. meat consumption.
- AntiImperialist 6y ago>I read that there is 15 UI of vitamin D in a steak. You need 25 or 100 times that per day. And how do you that for a fact? It's nutrition science. It's not reliable. These numbers of how much we need has been changing for as long as I can remember. >It seems much more likely that humans evolved to get their vitamin D from sunlight Humans have lived in Northen Europe for at least 10,000 years. They didn't take any supplements and there no evidence that shows any vitamin D deficiency in those populations.
- stjohnswarts 6y agoYou know I use a vitamin d supplement because I'm not a big outdoors guy and I livein the northern USA and I was deficient at my last annual inspection. That said why does HN seem to have a vitamin D story everyday? It's not a magic pill. If you have deficient levels you should do something about it, but it's not a cure all.
- lopis 6y agoLately it does effectively sounds like a magic pill.
- InterMilan 6y agoHN seem to love three health subjects: 1 - Vitamin D 2 - Fasting 3 - Did I mention fasting?
- cyrusmg 6y agoThis study was done in China. It is important to know the locals behaviour with regards to natural Vitamin D source (the Sun). Locals do not like to have "too dark skin" and as such are using sun screen with factor 50 and try avoid sunshine altogether. This study might have different results in other parts of the world.
- intricatedetail 6y agoI had been taking D for almost a year every day. (4000 dose) and wasn't feeling well at all. Once I stopped D and take it occassionaly I feel much better.
- partyboat1586 6y agoDid you take a soft-gel or hard tablet?
- intricatedetail 6y agoSoft-gel
- InterMilan 6y agoWith Vitamin K? otherwise it's useless I've heard.
- intricatedetail 6y agoI forgot, yes I took it together with K2 before sleep.
- partyboat1586 6y agoI find the soft gel ones don't do me any good. I do better with the hard pill type and even better with topical cream. I think it's something to do with the cheap vegetable oil they are packed in.
- amai 6y ago...in Older Adults with Mild Cognitive Impairment
- jdkee 6y agoMy wife has noticed that her severe COVID patients all have vitamin-D levels in the single digits. YMMV.