57 ms·

Windows XP source code has leaked

485 points by a5withtrrs 6y ago

enjoyyourlife 6y ago
https://twitter.com/RoninDey/status/1309275918943301636 https://twitter.com/RoninDey/status/1309275918943301636 https://anonfiles.com/Ffn8u2Yaoa/Microsoft_leaked_source_code_archive_2020-09-24_torrent https://anonfiles.com/Ffn8u2Yaoa/Microsoft_leaked_source_cod...
- banana_giraffe 6y ago
  Interesting, this one adds nt5src.7z windows_research_kernel/Windows Kernel Source Code like.7z windows_research_kernel/wrktools.7z to a version of this torrent that was released a few days ago. I wonder if this is going to be an ongoing leak.
  - breakingcups 6y ago
    All these files have been out there for ages. Especially the WRK, which anyone with a .edu could already download.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I have an .edu, is there a place that I can grab this?
      - x1unix 6y ago
        WRK is available on GitHub for years: - https://github.com/9176324/WRK https://github.com/9176324/WRK - https://github.com/ntkernel/wrk-v1.2 https://github.com/ntkernel/wrk-v1.2 Strange that nobody noticed and sent strike to that repos
        justinclift 6y ago
        Interestingly, that ntkernel/wrk-v1.2 seems to be a public fork of the non-public "https://github.com/Trietptm-on-Security/wrk-v1.2 https://github.com/Trietptm-on-Security/wrk-v1.2" repo. Might have been accidentally made public?
    - ko9000 6y ago
      also ddk (driver development kit) which is publicly available sdk (now part of platform sdk instead of separate)
  - ko9000 6y ago
    looking at filenames in top one there's a bunch of built dlls and exes there which looks like it is just installation of built code instead of source..
    - banana_giraffe 6y ago
      There are some source code archives in there: https://pastebin.com/LyLH9bLR https://pastebin.com/LyLH9bLR There is a lot of filler, though. I assume the videos are trying to convey some point, but I'm not sure I care.
- tamrix 6y ago
  This is still illegal to obtain, right? I'm not sure if it's wise to post the link as it may encourage others to download it and might be against the ToS on hackernews.
  - hoseja 6y ago
    Is it, if you don't share it further?
    - Lopalis 6y ago
      It's a torrent though. I thought about downloading it, but it seems unwise when you're automatically sharing it with others.
      - tpxl 6y ago
        You can prevent it from seeding and delete the tracker after downloading. It's not nice to seeders but it's an option.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      It probably still is, but I doubt that will really stop anyone here.
  - jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
    you ever download a loaf of bread?
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    I am not sure this is against the guidelines. I don't think it's illegal to post it, but then there are some illegal numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number However, the commenter might have just posted the magnet link, which is more to the point, and unlikely to disappear (torrent 2.0 notwithstanding), unlike some third-party website (which could also turn out to be an infection vector). It also shortens the trust chain. magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3d8b16242b56a3aafb8da7b5fc83ef993ebcf35b&dn=Microsoft%20leaked%20source%20code%20archive_2020-09-24&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337%2Fannounce
- quacksmack 6y ago
  Interesting looks like theres also Xbox source code in there? Is that old or new? I don't really keep up with the reversing scene
  - FractalParadigm 6y ago
    Having not looked at any of the files yet, I wonder if it's just the changes that were made to WinXP for Xbox-use. IIRC throughout its' history the Xbox OS has just been a modified version of whatever version of Windows Microsoft is pushing at the time, with the OG Xbox being based around WinXP. I'm very curious to see more come out as the code is picked apart piece by piece, and whether or not it'll confirm my suspicions. I'm also very interested in that Xbox folder, with any luck it'll be time to dust off my old OG Xbox and do some hacking!
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      AFAIK, the original XBOX was always based on a heavily stripped-down win2k kernel, and evolved very little. The "API" games used was a jump table to kernel functions, everything ran in kernel-space. I don't know much about later consoles, but I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same generic architecture. https://xboxdevwiki.net/Kernel https://xboxdevwiki.net/Kernel that site has quite a bit of info, with ongoing reverse-engineering and clean-room reimplementation projects (reactos, xquemu)
      - google234123 6y ago
        reactos being clean is a funny joke
coopsmgoops 6y ago
Gizmodo's baking metaphor is really really awful.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- toantruong 6y ago
  How is it awful? Can you give me a better analogy?
  - andykx 6y ago
    I didn’t mind their analogy, but I think an analogy is a poor way to explain such a simple concept. Why not just say, “the code that the developers wrote” or something along those lines? I don’t think the concept of source code is inaccessible to laymen.
    - thih9 6y ago
      > Why not just say, “the code that the developers wrote” Because some readers might not know what is the source code. Or they might have a vague idea but they might not understand what it means for the source code to be released. > I don’t think the concept of source code is inaccessible to laymen. I don’t think the article claims that. On the contrary; how I see it, the article explains the concept.
    - dylan604 6y ago
      Well, was that an early draft, or is it after the editors went in and made changes/corrections? How many chapter are in the manuscript?
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    Because the source isn’t a recipe in this analogy it would be akin to buying a cake mix and following the cooking instructions. A further development of the analogy would be one could try to replicate the cake mix by reading the list of ingredients and using their knowledge of baking and trial an error to replicate it as closely as possible vs getting their hands on the exact formula used by the maker of the cake mix.
zamalek 6y ago
Is this all of it, or just portions like many of the other leaks?
- unnouinceput 6y ago
  Get it, try to build it, see if you can make your own installer ISO and test it in a virtual machine. Ain't rocket science, just time and if you have it (which I don't) knock yourself out.
  - zamalek 6y ago
    And seeding it is highly illegal and unethical.
postpawl 6y ago
Does this mean we’re about to see a wave of new exploits? Or has this code been out there for a while?
- dsl 6y ago
  Governments, Universities, and large corporations have had ongoing source licenses for Windows back to the 95 days. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sharedsource/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sharedsource/
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    Worth noting that "open-source" doesn't imply a license to use the software in any way. You can put up a project on Github with "all rights reserved" (though you obviously grant Github rights to distribute it when you upload it).
    - kbenson 6y ago
      You are mistaking "source code available" for open source, which means a specific set of things, and does ensure you can compile and run the code.
      - dehrmann 6y ago
        I chose the most literal definition because it's complicated. Debian calls it "free software," but that has its own issues because there's "freeware" where source might not be available and the license isn't permissive. Then there's the JSMin "no evil" (unless you're IBM, its customers, partners, or minions) license.
        kbenson 6y ago
        > I chose the most literal definition because it's complicated. That's not the most literal definition, and it's not complicated once you know what it is. Open source[1] is a term coined by people decades ago to refer to something very specific, not "source code can be seen". There are specific licenses that are considered open source, and others that are not. Open source specifically requires a license that allows certain capabilities. You can read more about this at https://opensource.org/ https://opensource.org/. There's been some misunderstanding over the years where people (including me) have misapplied the term to mean you can access the source, but that's not really what it means, so we shouldn't dilute its meaning by allowing that. > Debian calls it "free software," Free software is also a term used to refer to open source.[2] I understand it can feel pedantic to have this terminology so strongly enforced, but the reason people do so is because there have been efforts by commercial entities to co-opt the term for their own version of software and software as a service which does not conform to what open source stands for, and ride on the coattails of the movement and good disposition towards open source. Your first comment actually seemed to be trying to bring awareness about this. What you can say as a shorthand going forward if you want is that "releasing the source does not mean it's open source, which if it was would mean you had a protected right to actually build and run the software in question". That's both more correct, leads people to more information about the actual issue in question, and lets you offload some of the more complex explaining to the site made for it. 1: https://opensource.org/ https://opensource.org/ 2: https://opensource.org/faq#free-software https://opensource.org/faq#free-software
cjones26 6y ago
I wonder how this will affect other projects, such as ReactOS and Wine. Exciting.
- gbil 6y ago
  I'm not sure if they want to go this way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines
- jeffchien 6y ago
  They can't look at it without running the risk of copyright infringement [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- anfilt 6y ago
  It's radio active for those projects if some reason they tried using this info.
  - de_watcher 6y ago
    That's so sad that we have to waste time implementing bug-compatibility with the proprietary software. There should be some law about interoperability.
    - Hackbraten 6y ago
      How would such a law protect you against a copyright lawsuit where the rights holder claims you looked at leaked sources?
      - de_watcher 6y ago
wheresmycraisin 6y ago
> Would you believe more than 1% of computers worldwide are still using Windows XP? Probably higher -- XP is still popular in China and supported by third party companies there.
- trox 6y ago
  statcounter reports it to be 3.11% in the period Aug 2019 - Aug 2020 https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/china https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...
- winrid 6y ago
  I saw XP quite a bit while I was there too.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Are these airgapped machines or machines with networking? Internet connection?
  - foxrob92 6y ago
    Can't speak for Chinese systems, but I'm aware of "jump hosts" (used for remote access to industrial control systems) that are running windows server 2003 and are internet-exposed.
- etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
  What's the demographic that's using XP in China? I find this super interesting...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - balola 6y ago
    Form my experience, mostly government and state-owned companies, which account for a big part of China's paid software market. Even some Shanghai government systems support only IE6 to 8, some only love IE11. Most state-owned banks too, popular browsers are all duel-engine. There's little to no incentive to change what's working, and customers experiences don't really matter.
shmerl 6y ago
> And that could be used for good reasons — like people trying to create Windows emulating software on Macs, for example Not really. It violates the major principle of clean room reverse engineering. That's why Wine developers are strictly avoiding such kind of situations. It can taint the result with legal problems.
- gmiller123456 6y ago
  The way the original IBM PC BIOS was rewritten was one team analyzed the code and documented what it did, and another team implemented it from the documentation. Having source code to start with helps with the first step.
  - shmerl 6y ago
    That sounds like a violation of that principle, but if original authors don't care, then no issue.
qz2 6y ago
This will be interesting. I learned a lot from the mainsoft leak.
- dgellow 6y ago
  Would you mind sharing some of those things your learned? I'm sure people here would be interested to hear about it (I know I would!).
  - qz2 6y ago
    I learned how the win32 common controls combo box worked, which was handy as I had to fix a bug related to it, how they handled compatibility between windows versions and lots of little bits of weird design info in the comments. I spent a good couple of weeks picking interesting bits and analysing them.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  Back when Slashdot was still somewhat popular (early '00s), the source code of Windows NT and Windows 2000 was leaked.
sdfsdfh 6y ago
Creator of the torrent posted on reddit about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/windowsxp/comments/iz46du/the_windows_xp_source_code_has_been_leaked_on/g6gwcpo/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/windowsxp/comments/iz46du/the_windo...
- SquareWheel 6y ago
  >And also, Microsoft claims to love open source so then I guess they'll love how open this source code is now that it's passed around on BitTorrent. One can love open-source and still be against license violations. What a warped world view.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    License is violation!
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      I'm hereby revoking your license to downvote my blissful freedom of expression, thereby messing with my pursuit of happiness, causing stress! (Marshal! To the yard! Switch that ugly element out of my train of thought!)
    - prophesi 6y ago
      Yeah, if it were a violation of an _open source_ license, then the parent comment would make more sense. Microsoft's love for open source is surface level; they love how easy it is to embrace, extend, and extinguish.
  - mirthflat83 6y ago
    He was obviously joking.
  - toyg 6y ago
    I mean, he uses the term "OG Microsoft source code". He's just a kid.
mindfulhack 6y ago
My immediate thought is whether researchers or investigative journalists will find cold hard US government backdoors. This is potentially big.
- hyperman1 6y ago
  That would surprise me. Governements all over the world already received access to the source code to perform audits. Besides, probably the quality was still low enough that you didn't need this, there were plenty of bugs that would grant a big organisation access.
  - beagle3 6y ago
    They got access to the source code, but not the ability to compile themselves.... my university had such access.
- choeger 6y ago
  They won't. Such backdoors would have to be hidden from Joe Average Coder at Microsoft first and foremost. Coding for MS is not a livelong thing, you know? So any backdoor would a) be obfuscated and b) have some form of plausible deniability. If I would have to make them, they would look like strings of two or three bugs.
  - mindfulhack 6y ago
    Likely you're right, but let's see if anything can become plausibly demonstrable after obsessive scrutiny. Like many situations in life, it may depend on whether someone determined / resourceful enough wants to do this. There may be no one with sufficient motivation. Also, it's not just (allegedly) all of XP source that's been leaked: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/the-windows-xp-source-code-was-allegedly-leaked-online/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/the-windows-... It's also Windows Server 2003, MS DOS 3.30, MS DOS 6.0, Windows 2000, Windows CE 3, Windows CE 4, Windows CE 5, Windows Embedded 7, Windows Embedded CE, Windows NT 3.5, and Windows NT 4! That's a huge amount of stuff to analyse.
cellularmitosis 6y ago
I'm actually not familiar with the legality of downloading this torrent. Is this considered legal, or is it like stolen goods, where the mere possession is a crime, even lacking evidence of the actual theft? Also, what would be the legality a group of people "maintaining" this code? (developing security patches, etc)
- phist_mcgee 6y ago
  A simple rule of thumb from someone who is not a lawyer. Is the thing you wish to download the property of someone else, and have they granted you the right to view/use it. I think the answer is pretty clear here.
- choeger 6y ago
  The first answer probably depends on where you live. In the US, I would not bet on it. In Germany, I could at least argue that you legally cannot steal source code. For the second part: that's probably legally impossible world wide due to trade secret protection agreements.
- trulyrandom 6y ago
  Another interesting question to ask may be: Would downloading/seeding this torrent be considered a worse offence than if it were, say, a movie?
  - 7952 6y ago
    I can't see why Microsoft would bother pursuing people for downloading or seeding this. The cat is out of the bag. And people will use this in ways MS don't want regardless of what they do. It is not like a movie where there is a loss of hypothetical revenue. Source code is not exactly an easy was to install a pirated OS!
    - ladyanita22 6y ago
      Plus it's not like someone's gonna run XP SP1 on their main machine. It's been 18 years.
noisy_boy 6y ago
I still keep my 12 year old legal copy of Windows XP available to be run as a VM via VirtualBox for occasions when I need to try out some Windows/DOS stuff - works pretty well :)
- stinos 6y ago
  Not sure why you got downvoted (too off-topic? no idea), because this is imo actually a rather interesting point. And 'pretty well' feels like an understatement when it comes to performance (or at least snappiness): I have XP on a VM for a while just for software which didn't support 7. Despite being in a VM (VirtualBox), the thing feels snappier and faster than current day desktop OS (XFCE on Ubuntu, Windows 10, OSX) on beefy workstations. It does lack quite some usability though in comparison with modern counterparts.
  - noisy_boy 6y ago
    Yeah - probably considered off-topic - I just couldn't help sharing the anecdotal tidbit :) My xperience(!) has been the same - boots within seconds and basically gets out of the way. No advertisements/analytics (that I know of), great to quickly check a Word document that doesn't render well in LibreOffice etc. I don't use it often though - Linux has truly come a long way that such occasions are getting rarer as time goes.
- fsflover 6y ago
  One could also try ReactOS for such cases.
  - spurgu 6y ago
    The ReactOS team might gain some insights from this leak...
    - fsflover 6y ago
      and they get prison time.
fimdomeio 6y ago
Forgeting about legality for a moment, this is great. Windows XP is probably the greatest operating system if you factor usability and how many people it has reached. It was also from a time where people still did not expect proprietary operating systems to be actively working against you. So it's great that this source will not be forever lost.
- codegladiator 6y ago
  > proprietary operating systems to be actively working against you Where is this happening ? Are we expecting this now ? What did I miss
  - jononor 6y ago
    The amount of user data collected in Windows 10 for example. Next to no user benefits, just value extracted for Microsoft. Automatic updates on reboot. For example when someone giving a presentation or class has to restart their computer for some reason (quite common in Windows still, or one just ran out of power). Boot up the computer, people waiting impatiently - and then have to wait for 5-30 minutes for the computer to finish updates before being able to use it. No way to cancel/post-pone, no time-estimates for when it will be done.
    - rblatz 6y ago
      I go months without needing to reboot windows, and have for over a decade. Typically if I need to reboot it’s due to an update or software that requires a reboot to install.
      - sdfqasdghj 6y ago
        How? When I last used Windows it forced a reboot to do updates once a month. If I let it pick the time it was often a bad time.
        toyg 6y ago
kasajian 6y ago
It's like leaking the plans to the Death Star. Now they'll find a vulnerability.
dgellow 6y ago
Friendly reminder to use a VPN in the hypothetical case where you would want to download such a leak for _research purpose_.
- dx034 6y ago
  Always a good advice but I wouldn't worry about MSFT going after downloaders of Windows XP source code. If it was about Windows 10 or even Windows 7 then maybe, but I don't think they care much that this is out in the open.
  - toyg 6y ago
    Downloading it would probably not even be a crime, in the same way a journalist getting hold of confidential IP wouldn't be a crime either. They'll go after you only if parts of the code end up surfacing in competing products, or if you belong to the distribution chain that leaked it in the first place. Microsoft is traditionally pretty skilled at dealing with piracy and leaks in more sophisticated ways than "sue them all".
    - unnouinceput 6y ago
      You do realize that technically, while you are torrenting, you also distribute, right? Because that's how torrent protocol works.
      - emteycz 6y ago
        You can easily disable upload in every usual torrent client
- Daniel_sk 6y ago
  I think this applies only to US. In EU there is no way you can even enforce those EULA screens at install or prosecute someone for downloading warez (distribution is a different topic).
  - 6y ago
snickmy 6y ago
I wonder if there are any consequences from a security standpoint. Does the community of hackers out there believe this will open the opportunity for new exploit?
akerro 6y ago
> Torrent Size : 42.93 GB well, ok. let's do this.
forgot-pw 6y ago
How much of the source code is carried over from release to release of Windows and how much is new?
- rnd0 6y ago
  I'm reasonably sure that large parts of windows were re-written between 2003 and Vista; so I'd assume the vast majority is new.
metta2uall 6y ago
Would be interesting if it can actually be compiled into a usable ISO - possible implications for digital preservation.
- rbinv 6y ago
  Would love to see the actual compile/build process for this. I don't think we'll see bootable ISOs (from this).
  - parliament32 6y ago
    "tools\razzle offline" sets up the environment "buildx /z" "postbuild" should make an iso
    - loa_in_ 6y ago
      Does razzle dazzle contain any easter eggs? I can't spare mobile bandwidth to try this out, otherwise I would happily poke around myself.
yodsanklai 6y ago
I'm surprised it hasn't leaked before. Microsoft used to give access to their OS source code as part of collaborations with academics (I don't know if they still do). I was surprised at how lax they were. It seems they didn't care that much.
voldacar 6y ago
Maybe people can take this code, fix a bunch of vulnerabilities, and keep developing a fork ofvit where MS left off Unlikely, but would be cool :)
- hilbert42 6y ago
  It would be very handy if someone were to generate new software drivers for newer equipment from scratch. I can't see a copyright issue if new drivers were brand new code. The trouble's always been MS has deliberately denied providing new drivers for newer hardware as deliberate means of obsoleting its older versions. Using older versions of Windows (such as Win 7) on new hardware is a highly desirable idea for those of us who are mightily pissed off that Microsoft has essentially converted is Windows platform from an operating system to a spyware and advertising platform. New drivers would solve the problem.
bzb5 6y ago
I’m astonished by the amount of people who choose to leak code on 4chan.
- ZoomStop 6y ago
  As opposed to where? It is one of the few platforms that would allow a post like this other than security info forums, but if you aren't looking for credits on one of those 4chan is about all that is left.
- parliament32 6y ago
  There's literally nowhere else to leak things like this without removal (major platforms) or tampering by the administration (wikileaks et al).
afrcnc 6y ago
Archive 40 GB Source code leaks 5 GB Conspiracy videos about Bill Gates 35 GB Just to put it in perspective... something the Gizmodo reporter miserably failed to do
- MayeulC 6y ago
  Hmm, I had a look, the videos were more like 3 GB IIRC. There is a lot of stuff in that torrent, with the source to DOS, win2K, some Xbox stuff that's 5 GB itself, etc. I did open a couple readmes, and the poster didn't appear that well-versed with tech, despite meaning well. It's an amateur job, but those tend to do the bulk of the work.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
"That leak is already turning up some interesting stuff, like the NetMeeting user certificate root signing keys." -- https://twitter.com/gsuberland/status/1309366364537266177 https://twitter.com/gsuberland/status/1309366364537266177
moshimoshir 6y ago
On this note, does anyone know where to legally obtain windows xp, hopefully for cheap ? I should note that I've tried at multiple places and none seemed fine so kindly speak from experience. (Or sell me your own, I'd trust anyone here).
- BallyBrain 6y ago
  The internet archive can help you out here, I used this recently for an XP VM https://archive.org/details/WinXPProSP3x86 https://archive.org/details/WinXPProSP3x86
  - moshimoshir 6y ago
    Technically I'm looking to buy a serial so I can tell myself I didn't steal. Thank you for your link, once I have a serial I'll know where to get a safe copy from.
    - wasmitnetzen 6y ago
      I have an educational MSDNAA (or Dreamspark, or whatever it is called this month) key I can send you, if that's legal enough for you.
      - moshimoshir 6y ago
        You are so kind for making that offer but probably not, thank you :). I want to buy from someone who has paid money to get the key. Thank you again.
- ripdog 6y ago
  Why, if you don't mind my asking? Even if you paid anything for such an old product, your money wouldn't be going to MS anyway. Not sure what difference it makes, paying for an abandoned product.
  - Hackbraten 6y ago
sahurkhan 6y ago
Microsoft made a big security pivot during XP. Gates put his foot down and forced the company to reprioritize secure engineering over everything else during the SP(2?) timeframe. https://pcheckup.com/strikethrough-google-docs https://pcheckup.com/strikethrough-google-docs https://pcheckup.com/ https://pcheckup.com/
Brett_S 6y ago
An interesting question here is how did Microsoft's systems get compromised such that their source code was leaked?
- jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
  I imagine it all went down in a manner very similar to the sense/net hack from neuromancer.
- puskavi 6y ago
  I've heard that governments got access to source, maybe from there?
swebs 6y ago
Here's the original source: https://boards.4channel.org/g/thread/77879263 https://boards.4channel.org/g/thread/77879263 And the archive when it gets pruned: https://archive.is/eg9nw https://archive.is/eg9nw
WinterKills 6y ago
Windows XP's source code will never be leaked. Don't fool yourselves. Microsoft will never disclose the source code of theirs commercial software. It's against theirs law.
- hilbert42 6y ago
  'Windows XP's source code will never be leaked' It won't have to be. As I've said elsewhere, eventually deep-learning AI disassemblers will do it for us complete with commented code! (That's if anyone is still interested.)
mysterydip 6y ago
I really wish the 3.1 code had leaked, for the benefit of all the retrogaming out there, but the source code dump has a lot of interesting things in it.
- EamonnMR 6y ago
  Win32 is probably the biggest set of games that you can still play as abandonware.
deleted 6y ago
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deleted 6y ago
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fractal618 6y ago
Great metaphor "Here’s where the metaphor really breaks down but stay with me: imagine if you wanted to break into a house but you didn’t know how. If you knew they had to open their windows when they baked, that would help you sneak in."
swiley 6y ago
It might be convenient to have a wine distribution with some of the higher level user space replaced with components windowsXP. I wonder if Visual studio and .net would run better. This is something that the wine devs themselves shouldn't do for obvious reasons.
peterburkimsher 6y ago
"You want to update XP so it can run with new hardware? Go for it." - I would really like to see a version I could use with 2013-14 MacBook Pro/Air. I have a MacBook Pro 2007 multi-booting XP, 7, Ubuntu, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 10.9, 10.10, 10.11. Surprisingly, XP is the OS I use most frequently on that laptop, by choice. I got some old HP laptops running XP for the homestay family kids, and have been playing network games and chatting with Escargot MSN. Windows XP still supports 16 bit DOS games. If the Luna theme seems childish, it's even more appropriate for young people using computers for the first time. Buttons have icons, which is easier when you're 6 and can't read quickly. I hope this source code can allow me to boot XP natively on my main laptop, so I don't have to carry around another computer just for compatibility.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  > I hope this source code can allow me to boot XP natively on my main laptop, so I don't have to carry around another computer just for compatibility. In my experience, Windows XP runs fine on relatively modern hardware. The biggest offender is generally storage drivers (AHCI). You can download a driver and re-pack the installer with it. Note that I haven't tried this in a long time, it might not be practical anymore. But with today's HW-assisted virtualization, you could just boot it in qemu or any other accelerated virtual machine, and you couldn't tell the difference.
  - hilbert42 6y ago
    'In my experience, Windows XP runs fine on relatively modern hardware.' How modern? And what hardware models? Was the newer hardware Win 7 compatible or later? I wish you'd be more specific and tell us how as it's never worked for me even after mucking about with different PC hardware and various different AHCI and other drivers.
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      I'll try again soon. I definitely remember running it on: - Intel Core 2 Quad and Xeon E5472, DDR2. Old-ish (the xeon came out in 2010), but I used that system as my main until 2018 -- though with Linux. - Samsung N220 (or quite similar) netbook. That thing originally came out with Win7 starter, and was a slog with it. A cursory search ("Ryzen XP") gives plenty of results: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/installing-windows-xp-on-am4-ryzen-7.414683/page-2#post-5541896 https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/installing-windows-xp-on-a... https://community.hwbot.org/topic/189776-xp-works-on-ryzen/ https://community.hwbot.org/topic/189776-xp-works-on-ryzen/ Though by now ReactOS might be better supported, especially on modern HW.
maxpert 6y ago
Good ReactOS developers don’t have to guess anymore. They can use this code as a reference and build their own version better than hasty M$ Devs.
- jeroenhd 6y ago
  No. If any maintainer of ReactOS evne just opens the source code, the entire project is doomed to get killed by lawyers. The Win2k source code has been leaked before, as have several WinNT sources. These leaks pose more risks to projects like ReactOS and Wine than they benefit.
  - wpdev_63 6y ago
    How would they know that they "opens the source code"? How would they prove that in a court of law that they didn't reverse engineer it? Seems very fishy to me....
    - jeroenhd 6y ago
      If they did, Microsoft sues, and the programmer is asked under oath, everyone knows. Unless the programmer decides to lie under oath, which will only make matters worse eventually. If they claim they just reverse engineered the code, they're in an equal amount of trouble. Reverse engineering is illegal in many jurisdictions, unless you manage to do it in a very specific way which should still results in different code than what Microsoft wrote. The more source code leaks, the harder it becomes to claim plausible deniability. Ethically, I think that's wrong and should be fixed, but the copyright and software protection law is against compatibility projects like these when it comes to legislation.
  - hilbert42 6y ago
    'The Win2k source code has been leaked before, as have several WinNT sources. These leaks pose more risks to projects like ReactOS and Wine than they benefit.' Correct, but does anyone really care? Many of us will have died from old age long before ReactOS actually produces a UI without crashing! It seems to me that even if the team used ideas from XP, by the time they implemented them and tried to disguise the fact, that it would be so old and irrelevant no would care. Probably not even Microsoft. I would love ReactOS to succeed but the only version that I've managed to get working on my various test machines is about four years old. All the newer versions, and like all those before my one and only working version, simply crash.
danmg 6y ago
If someone can successfully build this jalopy, it would be nice to get a version compiled with optimizations for modern processors (>= core2). Maybe run the address/memory sanitizer over it.
orev 6y ago
Taking a cynical view (and how can you not these days), the inclusion of the anti Bill Gates videos could be actual goal here. The source code leak as the headline makes a lot of people interested to download it, and then maybe they watch those videos as well. This could be part of a misinformation campaign aimed at spreading discord around COVID-19. Given the timing and with the upcoming US election, everything needs to be looked at with a critical eye.
WorldPeas 6y ago
this is going to be great for wine support! cant wait to play postal 2 flawlessly on debian!
X86IpodInsame 6y ago
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
rambojazz 6y ago
Is this legit?
chosen1111 6y ago
Link to code.
blippage 6y ago
It was OK, but it was the thin end of the wedge of many things bad about computing since then. I'm referring to product activation and updates. The internet and operating systems have had an evil feedback loop. To quote from The Outer Limits, 1963: "We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: There is nothing wrong with your television set." Even supposedly free browsers like Firefox are getting in on the act, pestering the user with updates, and make it difficult to turn off. My dad complains about this constantly. More and more, we see external agents dictating policy. I don't think even Richard Stallman originally predicted the true nightmare that computing would be become.
hilbert42 6y ago
Ha! Shame it wasn’t Win 7 that was released as I still use it on a few of my machines. ;-) Win 7 is the last MS OS that I now permit on my operational hardware. These days, Linux and rooted Google-free Android are my main OSes of choice. Not that I care much nowadays, as XP's code release is unlikely to affect me in any practical sense other than for just curiosity to see what goes on beneath its surface. Having experience with almost all Windows releases from the grotty, horrible Windows 1.0 of 1985 to the current Win 10, I've no doubt whatsoever the best and most practical version of the OS for me was Windows 2000, and from the numerous post I've read here many of you agree with me. (Incidentally, to be more precise, Win 3.1 for Workgroups was the first version I used in any practical sense as I found that Win 1.0, 2.0 and even 3.0 were essentially useless.) My second choice is Win XP and it's still installed on one of my older working machines. In some ways, my next choice would likely be NT4, I had a lot of experience with it but once you got it working, which wasn't always easy, it was reasonably solid and straightforward to use. Of course, its major downfall was both the lack of drivers and not having any effective plug and play infrastructure (hence installing it was often messy and time consuming). That said, I doubt this XP source code leak will be a unique event. I fully expect that we will see a great deal more source code becoming available from proprietary Windows-like software in the not-too-distant future—even if these 'leaks' do not originate from within the software companies in question (as all that will be needed is access to the compiled code). There is little doubt that soon we will see competent deep-leaning AI disassemblers become available that will be able to learn how to disassemble large programs such as Windows with ease whilst simultaneously attributing its disassembled code with meaningful and intelligible code comments and descriptions. Moreover, I see little way that software manufacturers will be able to do to stop this from happening. (I'd however add a caveat to the above, which is that whilst AI disassemblers will likely be able to eventually disassemble most existing compiled code that's been developed for past and present-day processors—from say the earliest 4004, 8085, 8051 and upwards to present-day ones as well as those likely to be developed in the immediate foreseeable future—this may not always remain the case, as it's possible that neither critical parts of compiled code nor newer specialized processor instruction sets may be available once manufacturers become aware of the threat.) Furthermore, I'd wager it's likely that eventually AI disassemblers will actually learn on code such as this leaked Win XP. After all, what better sample would be available to a third-party AI developer or researcher to train his or her AI on than the source of the once-famous XP? None I suspect! Moreover, I'd add that I would be very surprised if companies of the likes of Microsoft and Google aren't already training their own AI on disassembling their own code. (After all, they've 'brilliant' examples to hand and a vested interest in seeing how capable AI is at the task of code disassembly—and moreover they need to know how much lead time they have before this new technology poses a serious threat to their existing products). That said, with about a half century's worth of existing software compiled from many trillions of lines of code that will be available come the time AI is ready to examine and disassemble it, the snoopers among us will still have great scope! Frankly, I reckon the large-scale application of AI to code disassembly would be a truly great thing: just think of all the bugs and shitty bloated code we'll find. Moreover, exposing source code would put manufacturers on notice to improve their products—as not only would their multitudes of bugs and crappy code be exposed but also they wouldn’t be able to hide dirty tricks and corrupt practices as Volkswagen did with its engine emission technology. AI disassemblers may even force many manufacturers to adopt the open-source model for their software development. I've little doubt that over the long term code disassembly by AI will change the current paradigm of software development forever. Unlike its current undisciplined laissez faire approach to product development that encourages sloppy code full of bugs, software development will have to adapt to become a much more professional and rigorous engineering profession such as chemical or civil engineering both of which adhere to much stricter rules and disciplines—and I reckon that will be a good thing. A more rigorous approach to software development is something I've advocated for many years—as I class myself a victim of poor software having lost thousands of hours of my valuable time—right, thousands of hours out of my life that would have otherwise been used to better purpose—resolving problems caused by poor, buggy and dysfunctional software—of which the majority thereof would never have occurred had standards comparable to those of other engineering professions been applied to software development. Given AI technology is of itself a product of software, and that it inevitably will be turned upon its own means of creation, seems to me to be poetic justice. In the interim, I eagerly await revelations and 'meaty' pronouncements from eager XP code examiners.

485 points by a5withtrrs 6y ago

https://twitter.com/RoninDey/status/1309275918943301636 https://twitter.com/RoninDey/status/1309275918943301636 https://anonfiles.com/Ffn8u2Yaoa/Microsoft_leaked_source_code_archive_2020-09-24_torrent https://anonfiles.com/Ffn8u2Yaoa/Microsoft_leaked_source_cod...

banana_giraffe 6y ago
Interesting, this one adds nt5src.7z windows_research_kernel/Windows Kernel Source Code like.7z windows_research_kernel/wrktools.7z to a version of this torrent that was released a few days ago. I wonder if this is going to be an ongoing leak.
- breakingcups 6y ago
  All these files have been out there for ages. Especially the WRK, which anyone with a .edu could already download.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I have an .edu, is there a place that I can grab this?
    - x1unix 6y ago
      WRK is available on GitHub for years: - https://github.com/9176324/WRK https://github.com/9176324/WRK - https://github.com/ntkernel/wrk-v1.2 https://github.com/ntkernel/wrk-v1.2 Strange that nobody noticed and sent strike to that repos
      - justinclift 6y ago
        Interestingly, that ntkernel/wrk-v1.2 seems to be a public fork of the non-public "https://github.com/Trietptm-on-Security/wrk-v1.2 https://github.com/Trietptm-on-Security/wrk-v1.2" repo. Might have been accidentally made public?
  - ko9000 6y ago
    also ddk (driver development kit) which is publicly available sdk (now part of platform sdk instead of separate)
- ko9000 6y ago
  looking at filenames in top one there's a bunch of built dlls and exes there which looks like it is just installation of built code instead of source..
  - banana_giraffe 6y ago
    There are some source code archives in there: https://pastebin.com/LyLH9bLR https://pastebin.com/LyLH9bLR There is a lot of filler, though. I assume the videos are trying to convey some point, but I'm not sure I care.
tamrix 6y ago
This is still illegal to obtain, right? I'm not sure if it's wise to post the link as it may encourage others to download it and might be against the ToS on hackernews.
- hoseja 6y ago
  Is it, if you don't share it further?
  - Lopalis 6y ago
    It's a torrent though. I thought about downloading it, but it seems unwise when you're automatically sharing it with others.
    - tpxl 6y ago
      You can prevent it from seeding and delete the tracker after downloading. It's not nice to seeders but it's an option.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    It probably still is, but I doubt that will really stop anyone here.
- jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
  you ever download a loaf of bread?
- MayeulC 6y ago
  I am not sure this is against the guidelines. I don't think it's illegal to post it, but then there are some illegal numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number However, the commenter might have just posted the magnet link, which is more to the point, and unlikely to disappear (torrent 2.0 notwithstanding), unlike some third-party website (which could also turn out to be an infection vector). It also shortens the trust chain. magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3d8b16242b56a3aafb8da7b5fc83ef993ebcf35b&dn=Microsoft%20leaked%20source%20code%20archive_2020-09-24&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337%2Fannounce
quacksmack 6y ago
Interesting looks like theres also Xbox source code in there? Is that old or new? I don't really keep up with the reversing scene
- FractalParadigm 6y ago
  Having not looked at any of the files yet, I wonder if it's just the changes that were made to WinXP for Xbox-use. IIRC throughout its' history the Xbox OS has just been a modified version of whatever version of Windows Microsoft is pushing at the time, with the OG Xbox being based around WinXP. I'm very curious to see more come out as the code is picked apart piece by piece, and whether or not it'll confirm my suspicions. I'm also very interested in that Xbox folder, with any luck it'll be time to dust off my old OG Xbox and do some hacking!
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    AFAIK, the original XBOX was always based on a heavily stripped-down win2k kernel, and evolved very little. The "API" games used was a jump table to kernel functions, everything ran in kernel-space. I don't know much about later consoles, but I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same generic architecture. https://xboxdevwiki.net/Kernel https://xboxdevwiki.net/Kernel that site has quite a bit of info, with ongoing reverse-engineering and clean-room reimplementation projects (reactos, xquemu)
    - google234123 6y ago
      reactos being clean is a funny joke

coopsmgoops 6y ago

Gizmodo's baking metaphor is really really awful.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
toantruong 6y ago
How is it awful? Can you give me a better analogy?
- andykx 6y ago
  I didn’t mind their analogy, but I think an analogy is a poor way to explain such a simple concept. Why not just say, “the code that the developers wrote” or something along those lines? I don’t think the concept of source code is inaccessible to laymen.
  - thih9 6y ago
    > Why not just say, “the code that the developers wrote” Because some readers might not know what is the source code. Or they might have a vague idea but they might not understand what it means for the source code to be released. > I don’t think the concept of source code is inaccessible to laymen. I don’t think the article claims that. On the contrary; how I see it, the article explains the concept.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Well, was that an early draft, or is it after the editors went in and made changes/corrections? How many chapter are in the manuscript?
- dogma1138 6y ago
  Because the source isn’t a recipe in this analogy it would be akin to buying a cake mix and following the cooking instructions. A further development of the analogy would be one could try to replicate the cake mix by reading the list of ingredients and using their knowledge of baking and trial an error to replicate it as closely as possible vs getting their hands on the exact formula used by the maker of the cake mix.

zamalek 6y ago

Is this all of it, or just portions like many of the other leaks?

unnouinceput 6y ago
Get it, try to build it, see if you can make your own installer ISO and test it in a virtual machine. Ain't rocket science, just time and if you have it (which I don't) knock yourself out.
- zamalek 6y ago
  And seeding it is highly illegal and unethical.

postpawl 6y ago

Does this mean we’re about to see a wave of new exploits? Or has this code been out there for a while?

dsl 6y ago
Governments, Universities, and large corporations have had ongoing source licenses for Windows back to the 95 days. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sharedsource/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sharedsource/
- dehrmann 6y ago
  Worth noting that "open-source" doesn't imply a license to use the software in any way. You can put up a project on Github with "all rights reserved" (though you obviously grant Github rights to distribute it when you upload it).
  - kbenson 6y ago
    You are mistaking "source code available" for open source, which means a specific set of things, and does ensure you can compile and run the code.
    - dehrmann 6y ago
      I chose the most literal definition because it's complicated. Debian calls it "free software," but that has its own issues because there's "freeware" where source might not be available and the license isn't permissive. Then there's the JSMin "no evil" (unless you're IBM, its customers, partners, or minions) license.
      - kbenson 6y ago
        > I chose the most literal definition because it's complicated. That's not the most literal definition, and it's not complicated once you know what it is. Open source[1] is a term coined by people decades ago to refer to something very specific, not "source code can be seen". There are specific licenses that are considered open source, and others that are not. Open source specifically requires a license that allows certain capabilities. You can read more about this at https://opensource.org/ https://opensource.org/. There's been some misunderstanding over the years where people (including me) have misapplied the term to mean you can access the source, but that's not really what it means, so we shouldn't dilute its meaning by allowing that. > Debian calls it "free software," Free software is also a term used to refer to open source.[2] I understand it can feel pedantic to have this terminology so strongly enforced, but the reason people do so is because there have been efforts by commercial entities to co-opt the term for their own version of software and software as a service which does not conform to what open source stands for, and ride on the coattails of the movement and good disposition towards open source. Your first comment actually seemed to be trying to bring awareness about this. What you can say as a shorthand going forward if you want is that "releasing the source does not mean it's open source, which if it was would mean you had a protected right to actually build and run the software in question". That's both more correct, leads people to more information about the actual issue in question, and lets you offload some of the more complex explaining to the site made for it. 1: https://opensource.org/ https://opensource.org/ 2: https://opensource.org/faq#free-software https://opensource.org/faq#free-software

cjones26 6y ago

I wonder how this will affect other projects, such as ReactOS and Wine. Exciting.

gbil 6y ago
I'm not sure if they want to go this way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines https://wiki.winehq.org/Clean_Room_Guidelines
jeffchien 6y ago
They can't look at it without running the risk of copyright infringement [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS#Internal_audit
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
anfilt 6y ago
It's radio active for those projects if some reason they tried using this info.
- de_watcher 6y ago
  That's so sad that we have to waste time implementing bug-compatibility with the proprietary software. There should be some law about interoperability.
  - Hackbraten 6y ago
    How would such a law protect you against a copyright lawsuit where the rights holder claims you looked at leaked sources?
    - de_watcher 6y ago

wheresmycraisin 6y ago

> Would you believe more than 1% of computers worldwide are still using Windows XP? Probably higher -- XP is still popular in China and supported by third party companies there.

trox 6y ago
statcounter reports it to be 3.11% in the period Aug 2019 - Aug 2020 https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/china https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...
winrid 6y ago
I saw XP quite a bit while I was there too.
Fnoord 6y ago
Are these airgapped machines or machines with networking? Internet connection?
- foxrob92 6y ago
  Can't speak for Chinese systems, but I'm aware of "jump hosts" (used for remote access to industrial control systems) that are running windows server 2003 and are internet-exposed.
etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
What's the demographic that's using XP in China? I find this super interesting...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- balola 6y ago
  Form my experience, mostly government and state-owned companies, which account for a big part of China's paid software market. Even some Shanghai government systems support only IE6 to 8, some only love IE11. Most state-owned banks too, popular browsers are all duel-engine. There's little to no incentive to change what's working, and customers experiences don't really matter.

shmerl 6y ago

> And that could be used for good reasons — like people trying to create Windows emulating software on Macs, for example Not really. It violates the major principle of clean room reverse engineering. That's why Wine developers are strictly avoiding such kind of situations. It can taint the result with legal problems.

gmiller123456 6y ago
The way the original IBM PC BIOS was rewritten was one team analyzed the code and documented what it did, and another team implemented it from the documentation. Having source code to start with helps with the first step.
- shmerl 6y ago
  That sounds like a violation of that principle, but if original authors don't care, then no issue.

qz2 6y ago

This will be interesting. I learned a lot from the mainsoft leak.

dgellow 6y ago
Would you mind sharing some of those things your learned? I'm sure people here would be interested to hear about it (I know I would!).
- qz2 6y ago
  I learned how the win32 common controls combo box worked, which was handy as I had to fix a bug related to it, how they handled compatibility between windows versions and lots of little bits of weird design info in the comments. I spent a good couple of weeks picking interesting bits and analysing them.
Fnoord 6y ago
Back when Slashdot was still somewhat popular (early '00s), the source code of Windows NT and Windows 2000 was leaked.

sdfsdfh 6y ago

Creator of the torrent posted on reddit about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/windowsxp/comments/iz46du/the_windows_xp_source_code_has_been_leaked_on/g6gwcpo/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/windowsxp/comments/iz46du/the_windo...

SquareWheel 6y ago
>And also, Microsoft claims to love open source so then I guess they'll love how open this source code is now that it's passed around on BitTorrent. One can love open-source and still be against license violations. What a warped world view.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  License is violation!
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    I'm hereby revoking your license to downvote my blissful freedom of expression, thereby messing with my pursuit of happiness, causing stress! (Marshal! To the yard! Switch that ugly element out of my train of thought!)
  - prophesi 6y ago
    Yeah, if it were a violation of an _open source_ license, then the parent comment would make more sense. Microsoft's love for open source is surface level; they love how easy it is to embrace, extend, and extinguish.
- mirthflat83 6y ago
  He was obviously joking.
- toyg 6y ago
  I mean, he uses the term "OG Microsoft source code". He's just a kid.

mindfulhack 6y ago

My immediate thought is whether researchers or investigative journalists will find cold hard US government backdoors. This is potentially big.

hyperman1 6y ago
That would surprise me. Governements all over the world already received access to the source code to perform audits. Besides, probably the quality was still low enough that you didn't need this, there were plenty of bugs that would grant a big organisation access.
- beagle3 6y ago
  They got access to the source code, but not the ability to compile themselves.... my university had such access.
choeger 6y ago
They won't. Such backdoors would have to be hidden from Joe Average Coder at Microsoft first and foremost. Coding for MS is not a livelong thing, you know? So any backdoor would a) be obfuscated and b) have some form of plausible deniability. If I would have to make them, they would look like strings of two or three bugs.
- mindfulhack 6y ago
  Likely you're right, but let's see if anything can become plausibly demonstrable after obsessive scrutiny. Like many situations in life, it may depend on whether someone determined / resourceful enough wants to do this. There may be no one with sufficient motivation. Also, it's not just (allegedly) all of XP source that's been leaked: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/the-windows-xp-source-code-was-allegedly-leaked-online/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/the-windows-... It's also Windows Server 2003, MS DOS 3.30, MS DOS 6.0, Windows 2000, Windows CE 3, Windows CE 4, Windows CE 5, Windows Embedded 7, Windows Embedded CE, Windows NT 3.5, and Windows NT 4! That's a huge amount of stuff to analyse.

cellularmitosis 6y ago

I'm actually not familiar with the legality of downloading this torrent. Is this considered legal, or is it like stolen goods, where the mere possession is a crime, even lacking evidence of the actual theft? Also, what would be the legality a group of people "maintaining" this code? (developing security patches, etc)

phist_mcgee 6y ago
A simple rule of thumb from someone who is not a lawyer. Is the thing you wish to download the property of someone else, and have they granted you the right to view/use it. I think the answer is pretty clear here.
choeger 6y ago
The first answer probably depends on where you live. In the US, I would not bet on it. In Germany, I could at least argue that you legally cannot steal source code. For the second part: that's probably legally impossible world wide due to trade secret protection agreements.
trulyrandom 6y ago
Another interesting question to ask may be: Would downloading/seeding this torrent be considered a worse offence than if it were, say, a movie?
- 7952 6y ago
  I can't see why Microsoft would bother pursuing people for downloading or seeding this. The cat is out of the bag. And people will use this in ways MS don't want regardless of what they do. It is not like a movie where there is a loss of hypothetical revenue. Source code is not exactly an easy was to install a pirated OS!
  - ladyanita22 6y ago
    Plus it's not like someone's gonna run XP SP1 on their main machine. It's been 18 years.

noisy_boy 6y ago

I still keep my 12 year old legal copy of Windows XP available to be run as a VM via VirtualBox for occasions when I need to try out some Windows/DOS stuff - works pretty well :)

stinos 6y ago
Not sure why you got downvoted (too off-topic? no idea), because this is imo actually a rather interesting point. And 'pretty well' feels like an understatement when it comes to performance (or at least snappiness): I have XP on a VM for a while just for software which didn't support 7. Despite being in a VM (VirtualBox), the thing feels snappier and faster than current day desktop OS (XFCE on Ubuntu, Windows 10, OSX) on beefy workstations. It does lack quite some usability though in comparison with modern counterparts.
- noisy_boy 6y ago
  Yeah - probably considered off-topic - I just couldn't help sharing the anecdotal tidbit :) My xperience(!) has been the same - boots within seconds and basically gets out of the way. No advertisements/analytics (that I know of), great to quickly check a Word document that doesn't render well in LibreOffice etc. I don't use it often though - Linux has truly come a long way that such occasions are getting rarer as time goes.
fsflover 6y ago
One could also try ReactOS for such cases.
- spurgu 6y ago
  The ReactOS team might gain some insights from this leak...
  - fsflover 6y ago
    and they get prison time.

fimdomeio 6y ago

Forgeting about legality for a moment, this is great. Windows XP is probably the greatest operating system if you factor usability and how many people it has reached. It was also from a time where people still did not expect proprietary operating systems to be actively working against you. So it's great that this source will not be forever lost.

codegladiator 6y ago
> proprietary operating systems to be actively working against you Where is this happening ? Are we expecting this now ? What did I miss
- jononor 6y ago
  The amount of user data collected in Windows 10 for example. Next to no user benefits, just value extracted for Microsoft. Automatic updates on reboot. For example when someone giving a presentation or class has to restart their computer for some reason (quite common in Windows still, or one just ran out of power). Boot up the computer, people waiting impatiently - and then have to wait for 5-30 minutes for the computer to finish updates before being able to use it. No way to cancel/post-pone, no time-estimates for when it will be done.
  - rblatz 6y ago
    I go months without needing to reboot windows, and have for over a decade. Typically if I need to reboot it’s due to an update or software that requires a reboot to install.
    - sdfqasdghj 6y ago
      How? When I last used Windows it forced a reboot to do updates once a month. If I let it pick the time it was often a bad time.
      - toyg 6y ago

kasajian 6y ago

It's like leaking the plans to the Death Star. Now they'll find a vulnerability.

dgellow 6y ago

Friendly reminder to use a VPN in the hypothetical case where you would want to download such a leak for _research purpose_.

dx034 6y ago
Always a good advice but I wouldn't worry about MSFT going after downloaders of Windows XP source code. If it was about Windows 10 or even Windows 7 then maybe, but I don't think they care much that this is out in the open.
- toyg 6y ago
  Downloading it would probably not even be a crime, in the same way a journalist getting hold of confidential IP wouldn't be a crime either. They'll go after you only if parts of the code end up surfacing in competing products, or if you belong to the distribution chain that leaked it in the first place. Microsoft is traditionally pretty skilled at dealing with piracy and leaks in more sophisticated ways than "sue them all".
  - unnouinceput 6y ago
    You do realize that technically, while you are torrenting, you also distribute, right? Because that's how torrent protocol works.
    - emteycz 6y ago
      You can easily disable upload in every usual torrent client
Daniel_sk 6y ago
I think this applies only to US. In EU there is no way you can even enforce those EULA screens at install or prosecute someone for downloading warez (distribution is a different topic).
- 6y ago

snickmy 6y ago

I wonder if there are any consequences from a security standpoint. Does the community of hackers out there believe this will open the opportunity for new exploit?

akerro 6y ago

> Torrent Size : 42.93 GB well, ok. let's do this.

forgot-pw 6y ago

How much of the source code is carried over from release to release of Windows and how much is new?

rnd0 6y ago
I'm reasonably sure that large parts of windows were re-written between 2003 and Vista; so I'd assume the vast majority is new.

metta2uall 6y ago

Would be interesting if it can actually be compiled into a usable ISO - possible implications for digital preservation.

rbinv 6y ago
Would love to see the actual compile/build process for this. I don't think we'll see bootable ISOs (from this).
- parliament32 6y ago
  "tools\razzle offline" sets up the environment "buildx /z" "postbuild" should make an iso
  - loa_in_ 6y ago
    Does razzle dazzle contain any easter eggs? I can't spare mobile bandwidth to try this out, otherwise I would happily poke around myself.

yodsanklai 6y ago

I'm surprised it hasn't leaked before. Microsoft used to give access to their OS source code as part of collaborations with academics (I don't know if they still do). I was surprised at how lax they were. It seems they didn't care that much.

voldacar 6y ago

Maybe people can take this code, fix a bunch of vulnerabilities, and keep developing a fork ofvit where MS left off Unlikely, but would be cool :)

hilbert42 6y ago
It would be very handy if someone were to generate new software drivers for newer equipment from scratch. I can't see a copyright issue if new drivers were brand new code. The trouble's always been MS has deliberately denied providing new drivers for newer hardware as deliberate means of obsoleting its older versions. Using older versions of Windows (such as Win 7) on new hardware is a highly desirable idea for those of us who are mightily pissed off that Microsoft has essentially converted is Windows platform from an operating system to a spyware and advertising platform. New drivers would solve the problem.

bzb5 6y ago

I’m astonished by the amount of people who choose to leak code on 4chan.

ZoomStop 6y ago
As opposed to where? It is one of the few platforms that would allow a post like this other than security info forums, but if you aren't looking for credits on one of those 4chan is about all that is left.
parliament32 6y ago
There's literally nowhere else to leak things like this without removal (major platforms) or tampering by the administration (wikileaks et al).

afrcnc 6y ago

Archive 40 GB Source code leaks 5 GB Conspiracy videos about Bill Gates 35 GB Just to put it in perspective... something the Gizmodo reporter miserably failed to do

MayeulC 6y ago
Hmm, I had a look, the videos were more like 3 GB IIRC. There is a lot of stuff in that torrent, with the source to DOS, win2K, some Xbox stuff that's 5 GB itself, etc. I did open a couple readmes, and the poster didn't appear that well-versed with tech, despite meaning well. It's an amateur job, but those tend to do the bulk of the work.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

"That leak is already turning up some interesting stuff, like the NetMeeting user certificate root signing keys." -- https://twitter.com/gsuberland/status/1309366364537266177 https://twitter.com/gsuberland/status/1309366364537266177

moshimoshir 6y ago

On this note, does anyone know where to legally obtain windows xp, hopefully for cheap ? I should note that I've tried at multiple places and none seemed fine so kindly speak from experience. (Or sell me your own, I'd trust anyone here).

BallyBrain 6y ago
The internet archive can help you out here, I used this recently for an XP VM https://archive.org/details/WinXPProSP3x86 https://archive.org/details/WinXPProSP3x86
- moshimoshir 6y ago
  Technically I'm looking to buy a serial so I can tell myself I didn't steal. Thank you for your link, once I have a serial I'll know where to get a safe copy from.
  - wasmitnetzen 6y ago
    I have an educational MSDNAA (or Dreamspark, or whatever it is called this month) key I can send you, if that's legal enough for you.
    - moshimoshir 6y ago
      You are so kind for making that offer but probably not, thank you :). I want to buy from someone who has paid money to get the key. Thank you again.
ripdog 6y ago
Why, if you don't mind my asking? Even if you paid anything for such an old product, your money wouldn't be going to MS anyway. Not sure what difference it makes, paying for an abandoned product.
- Hackbraten 6y ago

sahurkhan 6y ago

Microsoft made a big security pivot during XP. Gates put his foot down and forced the company to reprioritize secure engineering over everything else during the SP(2?) timeframe. https://pcheckup.com/strikethrough-google-docs https://pcheckup.com/strikethrough-google-docs https://pcheckup.com/ https://pcheckup.com/

Brett_S 6y ago

An interesting question here is how did Microsoft's systems get compromised such that their source code was leaked?

jacobwilliamroy 6y ago
I imagine it all went down in a manner very similar to the sense/net hack from neuromancer.
puskavi 6y ago
I've heard that governments got access to source, maybe from there?

swebs 6y ago

Here's the original source: https://boards.4channel.org/g/thread/77879263 https://boards.4channel.org/g/thread/77879263 And the archive when it gets pruned: https://archive.is/eg9nw https://archive.is/eg9nw

WinterKills 6y ago

Windows XP's source code will never be leaked. Don't fool yourselves. Microsoft will never disclose the source code of theirs commercial software. It's against theirs law.

hilbert42 6y ago
'Windows XP's source code will never be leaked' It won't have to be. As I've said elsewhere, eventually deep-learning AI disassemblers will do it for us complete with commented code! (That's if anyone is still interested.)

mysterydip 6y ago

I really wish the 3.1 code had leaked, for the benefit of all the retrogaming out there, but the source code dump has a lot of interesting things in it.

EamonnMR 6y ago
Win32 is probably the biggest set of games that you can still play as abandonware.

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fractal618 6y ago

Great metaphor "Here’s where the metaphor really breaks down but stay with me: imagine if you wanted to break into a house but you didn’t know how. If you knew they had to open their windows when they baked, that would help you sneak in."

swiley 6y ago

It might be convenient to have a wine distribution with some of the higher level user space replaced with components windowsXP. I wonder if Visual studio and .net would run better. This is something that the wine devs themselves shouldn't do for obvious reasons.

peterburkimsher 6y ago

"You want to update XP so it can run with new hardware? Go for it." - I would really like to see a version I could use with 2013-14 MacBook Pro/Air. I have a MacBook Pro 2007 multi-booting XP, 7, Ubuntu, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 10.9, 10.10, 10.11. Surprisingly, XP is the OS I use most frequently on that laptop, by choice. I got some old HP laptops running XP for the homestay family kids, and have been playing network games and chatting with Escargot MSN. Windows XP still supports 16 bit DOS games. If the Luna theme seems childish, it's even more appropriate for young people using computers for the first time. Buttons have icons, which is easier when you're 6 and can't read quickly. I hope this source code can allow me to boot XP natively on my main laptop, so I don't have to carry around another computer just for compatibility.

MayeulC 6y ago
> I hope this source code can allow me to boot XP natively on my main laptop, so I don't have to carry around another computer just for compatibility. In my experience, Windows XP runs fine on relatively modern hardware. The biggest offender is generally storage drivers (AHCI). You can download a driver and re-pack the installer with it. Note that I haven't tried this in a long time, it might not be practical anymore. But with today's HW-assisted virtualization, you could just boot it in qemu or any other accelerated virtual machine, and you couldn't tell the difference.
- hilbert42 6y ago
  'In my experience, Windows XP runs fine on relatively modern hardware.' How modern? And what hardware models? Was the newer hardware Win 7 compatible or later? I wish you'd be more specific and tell us how as it's never worked for me even after mucking about with different PC hardware and various different AHCI and other drivers.
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    I'll try again soon. I definitely remember running it on: - Intel Core 2 Quad and Xeon E5472, DDR2. Old-ish (the xeon came out in 2010), but I used that system as my main until 2018 -- though with Linux. - Samsung N220 (or quite similar) netbook. That thing originally came out with Win7 starter, and was a slog with it. A cursory search ("Ryzen XP") gives plenty of results: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/installing-windows-xp-on-am4-ryzen-7.414683/page-2#post-5541896 https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/installing-windows-xp-on-a... https://community.hwbot.org/topic/189776-xp-works-on-ryzen/ https://community.hwbot.org/topic/189776-xp-works-on-ryzen/ Though by now ReactOS might be better supported, especially on modern HW.

maxpert 6y ago

Good ReactOS developers don’t have to guess anymore. They can use this code as a reference and build their own version better than hasty M$ Devs.

jeroenhd 6y ago
No. If any maintainer of ReactOS evne just opens the source code, the entire project is doomed to get killed by lawyers. The Win2k source code has been leaked before, as have several WinNT sources. These leaks pose more risks to projects like ReactOS and Wine than they benefit.
- wpdev_63 6y ago
  How would they know that they "opens the source code"? How would they prove that in a court of law that they didn't reverse engineer it? Seems very fishy to me....
  - jeroenhd 6y ago
    If they did, Microsoft sues, and the programmer is asked under oath, everyone knows. Unless the programmer decides to lie under oath, which will only make matters worse eventually. If they claim they just reverse engineered the code, they're in an equal amount of trouble. Reverse engineering is illegal in many jurisdictions, unless you manage to do it in a very specific way which should still results in different code than what Microsoft wrote. The more source code leaks, the harder it becomes to claim plausible deniability. Ethically, I think that's wrong and should be fixed, but the copyright and software protection law is against compatibility projects like these when it comes to legislation.
- hilbert42 6y ago
  'The Win2k source code has been leaked before, as have several WinNT sources. These leaks pose more risks to projects like ReactOS and Wine than they benefit.' Correct, but does anyone really care? Many of us will have died from old age long before ReactOS actually produces a UI without crashing! It seems to me that even if the team used ideas from XP, by the time they implemented them and tried to disguise the fact, that it would be so old and irrelevant no would care. Probably not even Microsoft. I would love ReactOS to succeed but the only version that I've managed to get working on my various test machines is about four years old. All the newer versions, and like all those before my one and only working version, simply crash.

danmg 6y ago

If someone can successfully build this jalopy, it would be nice to get a version compiled with optimizations for modern processors (>= core2). Maybe run the address/memory sanitizer over it.

orev 6y ago

Taking a cynical view (and how can you not these days), the inclusion of the anti Bill Gates videos could be actual goal here. The source code leak as the headline makes a lot of people interested to download it, and then maybe they watch those videos as well. This could be part of a misinformation campaign aimed at spreading discord around COVID-19. Given the timing and with the upcoming US election, everything needs to be looked at with a critical eye.

WorldPeas 6y ago

this is going to be great for wine support! cant wait to play postal 2 flawlessly on debian!

X86IpodInsame 6y ago

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

rambojazz 6y ago

Is this legit?

chosen1111 6y ago

Link to code.

blippage 6y ago

It was OK, but it was the thin end of the wedge of many things bad about computing since then. I'm referring to product activation and updates. The internet and operating systems have had an evil feedback loop. To quote from The Outer Limits, 1963: "We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: There is nothing wrong with your television set." Even supposedly free browsers like Firefox are getting in on the act, pestering the user with updates, and make it difficult to turn off. My dad complains about this constantly. More and more, we see external agents dictating policy. I don't think even Richard Stallman originally predicted the true nightmare that computing would be become.

hilbert42 6y ago

Ha! Shame it wasn’t Win 7 that was released as I still use it on a few of my machines. ;-) Win 7 is the last MS OS that I now permit on my operational hardware. These days, Linux and rooted Google-free Android are my main OSes of choice. Not that I care much nowadays, as XP's code release is unlikely to affect me in any practical sense other than for just curiosity to see what goes on beneath its surface. Having experience with almost all Windows releases from the grotty, horrible Windows 1.0 of 1985 to the current Win 10, I've no doubt whatsoever the best and most practical version of the OS for me was Windows 2000, and from the numerous post I've read here many of you agree with me. (Incidentally, to be more precise, Win 3.1 for Workgroups was the first version I used in any practical sense as I found that Win 1.0, 2.0 and even 3.0 were essentially useless.) My second choice is Win XP and it's still installed on one of my older working machines. In some ways, my next choice would likely be NT4, I had a lot of experience with it but once you got it working, which wasn't always easy, it was reasonably solid and straightforward to use. Of course, its major downfall was both the lack of drivers and not having any effective plug and play infrastructure (hence installing it was often messy and time consuming). That said, I doubt this XP source code leak will be a unique event. I fully expect that we will see a great deal more source code becoming available from proprietary Windows-like software in the not-too-distant future—even if these 'leaks' do not originate from within the software companies in question (as all that will be needed is access to the compiled code). There is little doubt that soon we will see competent deep-leaning AI disassemblers become available that will be able to learn how to disassemble large programs such as Windows with ease whilst simultaneously attributing its disassembled code with meaningful and intelligible code comments and descriptions. Moreover, I see little way that software manufacturers will be able to do to stop this from happening. (I'd however add a caveat to the above, which is that whilst AI disassemblers will likely be able to eventually disassemble most existing compiled code that's been developed for past and present-day processors—from say the earliest 4004, 8085, 8051 and upwards to present-day ones as well as those likely to be developed in the immediate foreseeable future—this may not always remain the case, as it's possible that neither critical parts of compiled code nor newer specialized processor instruction sets may be available once manufacturers become aware of the threat.) Furthermore, I'd wager it's likely that eventually AI disassemblers will actually learn on code such as this leaked Win XP. After all, what better sample would be available to a third-party AI developer or researcher to train his or her AI on than the source of the once-famous XP? None I suspect! Moreover, I'd add that I would be very surprised if companies of the likes of Microsoft and Google aren't already training their own AI on disassembling their own code. (After all, they've 'brilliant' examples to hand and a vested interest in seeing how capable AI is at the task of code disassembly—and moreover they need to know how much lead time they have before this new technology poses a serious threat to their existing products). That said, with about a half century's worth of existing software compiled from many trillions of lines of code that will be available come the time AI is ready to examine and disassemble it, the snoopers among us will still have great scope! Frankly, I reckon the large-scale application of AI to code disassembly would be a truly great thing: just think of all the bugs and shitty bloated code we'll find. Moreover, exposing source code would put manufacturers on notice to improve their products—as not only would their multitudes of bugs and crappy code be exposed but also they wouldn’t be able to hide dirty tricks and corrupt practices as Volkswagen did with its engine emission technology. AI disassemblers may even force many manufacturers to adopt the open-source model for their software development. I've little doubt that over the long term code disassembly by AI will change the current paradigm of software development forever. Unlike its current undisciplined laissez faire approach to product development that encourages sloppy code full of bugs, software development will have to adapt to become a much more professional and rigorous engineering profession such as chemical or civil engineering both of which adhere to much stricter rules and disciplines—and I reckon that will be a good thing. A more rigorous approach to software development is something I've advocated for many years—as I class myself a victim of poor software having lost thousands of hours of my valuable time—right, thousands of hours out of my life that would have otherwise been used to better purpose—resolving problems caused by poor, buggy and dysfunctional software—of which the majority thereof would never have occurred had standards comparable to those of other engineering professions been applied to software development. Given AI technology is of itself a product of software, and that it inevitably will be turned upon its own means of creation, seems to me to be poetic justice. In the interim, I eagerly await revelations and 'meaty' pronouncements from eager XP code examiners.