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Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

282 points by mitchbob 6y ago

tannhaeuser 6y ago
Freiburg is a super nice place as long as you've got disposable income to spend to live in one of the preferred quarters, like Wiehre, Herdern, etc. If you don't, then like in many south-German cities (located in mountain valleys where space is scarce), you're living in a place without any green in sight (ok Freiburg's Stühlinger is quite green, and still affordable, though I'm guessing it's been getting more expensive in recent years). The problem with living in Vauban-style high-tech houses with photovoltaics, ground energy, etc. is the cost of maintenance, or finding people for maintenance in the first place. We really only can tell something about sustainability towards the end of life of polystyrole or mineral wool walls (30 years?).
- Fnoord 6y ago
  It was a lot of fun (and quite a special experience) visiting the city. Don't have to live there.
  - mordechai9000 6y ago
    It was wonderful to visit, but I am still a little salty about the Schlossberg. It has an incline elevator, not a funicular! And the Schlossberg tower was closed to the public. And, of course, my daughter stepped in the Bächle repeatedly. They were like a magnet for her. I'm joking about being salty. Well, mostly. I want to go back and do more hiking. Hopefully, the tower will be open to the public, next time.
    - hansjorg 6y ago
      According to Wikipedia: > It is local superstition that if you accidentally step in the Bächle, you will marry a Freiburger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  I live in Austria and it's the same. Houses in the urban forests are really picturesque and a marker for high quality of life but unless you're a 10%er millionaire they're out of reach. Everyone else is cramped in concrete blocks but of course, that's rarely shown in photos or articles.
  - newyankee 6y ago
    10 m or 100k ?
  - tluyben2 6y ago
    Just clicking around on real estate sites, large houses with gardens in nature seem to be rather cheap there. Maybe you are in another region but with mortgage % low, the prices like [0][1][2] are far from needing to be a millionaire. [0] https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t67035189/ https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t67035189/ [1] https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t67126374/ https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t67126374/ [2] https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t66305759/ https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t66305759/
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      Of course prices of old houses in need of maintenance, far away from the nearest city, in regions with little to no jobs, next to the border with Eastern European countries, will be cheap. Nobody wants to live there. Try looking at homes in the suburbs of desirable cities with jobs and see 10x prices. If we're just looking for random homes on the internet you can find better deals in villages in southern Europe but there's always at least one catch why cheap homes are cheap.
      - tluyben2 6y ago
        > Nobody wants to live there. Nobody besides everyone I know... I (nor my friends or family) would never want to live in or close to a city. Let alone in a suburb; if in a city then the center. But you are right; still, to pay a 2m mortgage, you do not need to be a millionaire. And for 2m I see nice stuff in Vienna. > catch why cheap homes are cheap. I live in such a home in southern eu and for me there is no catch. Huge garden, swimming pool, large villa for 130k. Always sunny, nature, no polution. Just not close (40min drive; probably faster than a lot of suburb-center commutes though) to a city, that’s a benefit, not a catch.
- jgehring 6y ago
  > If you don't, then like in many south-German cities (located in mountain valleys where space is scarce), you're living in a place without any green in sight While this is generally true, the newer districts like Vauban also feature city-owned housing that is specifically targeted to be rented by lower-income families. If you're a student there are again lots of options all throughout the city.
- thelastinuit 6y ago
  Damn. I found the pictures lovely i was thinking in finding a job in IT. But i guess i wont be able to afford a living there.
  - jgehring 6y ago
    I think your parent paints a rather extreme picture. The two examples they picked, Wiehre and Herdern, are the upscale neighborhoods with plenty of mansions, and there's rather only one area with large concrete housing blocks (Weingarten). As usual, you pay a premium for the top locations but in terms of quality of living and "greenness" there are many other good spots.
  - tannhaeuser 6y ago
    Freiburg has many commuters working in Swiss pharma industry around Basel for the much lower cost of living so you should be ok as a single working in IT. If you even find housing, that is.
- rfreiberger 6y ago
  I really want to visit some day but doesn't sound like it's what I picture in my mind as a old German town.
  - smueller1234 6y ago
    Actually Freiburg has quarters with plenty of old town charm. And if that's not old town enough, you can always go to one of the smaller towns around, which should have plenty. It's an article that picks out and exaggerates one aspect of the city.
  - tannhaeuser 6y ago
    What is your idea of an old German town? Heidelberg-like romanticist buildings, medieval wooden housings, Karlsruhe-like baroque or classicist cities? Freiburg has a rather large historic center with a cathedral/monastery church and gates, plus old quarters with lots of red sandstone.
- mudita 6y ago
  I am writing this from my room in Wiehre right now, for which I pay 300 euro per month. Ok, it's a room in a flat I share with 3 flatmates, not everybody wants to live like this, but still, even Wiehre and Herdern are hardly quarters only for the super rich. Additionally Freiburg is so small that you can be pretty much anywhere within 15 minutes by bike, it really does not matter so much which quarter you live in.
jgehring 6y ago
Nice to see my neighborhood (Vauban) featured here :) It's an awesome place to raise kids as it provides an almost village-like environment, being right at the edge of the city and hence the edge of the black forest. But it also comes with the immediate benefits of a nearby regional hub and with plenty of next-door daycare/kindergarten institutions, playgrounds and a ton of other kids. This was one of the main factors that made us move back here after two years in SF. As elsewhere, affordable, or even available housing is now an issue, in particular for families. Prices have been on a sharp increase over the last years, and although the there's quite some construction (and plans to add a whole new district) it's not keeping up with demand.
Ericson2314 6y ago
Pity its genesis was anti-nuclear, but looks like mostly good stuff since. Ban those cars!
- Meandering 6y ago
  Fear has a way of disarming logic.
  - pvorb 6y ago
    I don't think it's unreasonable to fear nuclear accidents, as history has shown us.
    - ajmadesc 6y ago
      It is unreasonable. We over weigh the risk based on the exposure an accident gets, not the death toll . History shows the highest kwh per human life of any energy source.
      - pvorb 6y ago
        But there's more to it than the death toll. If something goes bad this would turn a large area into a wasteland, that will be uninhabitable for thousands of years. And how would you prevent future civilizations from opening nuclear waste deposits that should not be opened? I think it's just too complex and we should look for simpler alternives.
        Baeocystin 6y ago
        >And how would you prevent future civilizations from opening nuclear waste deposits that should not be opened? A depot where the waste is beats the heck out what we're doing now, which is spewing waste directly into the atmosphere, which effects everywhere.
        pvorb 6y ago
codr7 6y ago
Lived there for about a year, reasonably close to the center; but moved to a smaller country side village once our son was born. It was very nice to have the Black Forest right around the corner but the city had an icky hipster vibe from my experience.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  Consider Baden then, my backyard was facing the Black Forrest, I could see what appeared to be a skiing slope lift and on clear day you could see castle from my room and when I was working outdoors. It's my favorite part of Baden-Wuttenberg and of all Germany really. But, as someone above mentioned its rather expensive, not Switzerland expensive, but still pretty expensive. The recent Netflix series Biohackers [1] was essentially just one big promo for Freiburg, perhaps trying to compete with Berlin in 'coolness' factor for Gen Z? 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHBOUvgBI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHBOUvgBI8
porknubbins 6y ago
400km of bike trails is an insane amount for a small town, assuming they aren’t counting bike lanes. I doubt any of the 1M+ pop cities I’ve lived in came anywhere close to that in bike or MUTs.
- muep 6y ago
  Oulu, a 200k town in Finland, claims to have 600 km. It still could do with some more bike paths and improvements to the existing ones, but it is at a level where almost all places are reasonably easy to access by bicycle.
  - usr1106 6y ago
    You can't compare a Finnish city/municipality with a German one. In Germany it's often 5-6 km to the next municipality. In Finland it's 5-6 km to the next residential area in the (few) big cities. I'd guess the coverage of bike paths in Freiburg and Oulu might be very similar. It's the cities that are not comparable. Finnish municipalities often have the size of German county (Landkreis), but not even the population of a German city. (I have lived in Germany and Finland. But have never visited Freiburg and it's decades that I biked in or even visited Oulu the last time.)
- mihaaly 6y ago
  I'd call it adequate instead. > I doubt any of the 1M+ pop cities I’ve lived in came anywhere close to that And this sad.
  - pierrebeaucamp 6y ago
    > I'd call it adequate instead. It's above average for sure. As a counterexample, take the city of Münster, which covers twice the area of Freiburg and is often praised as one of the most bike-friendly cities in Germany. It only claims to have 300km of bike lanes. > > I doubt any of the 1M+ pop cities I’ve lived in came anywhere close to that > And this sad. There are a lot of 1M+ cities that have more than that. Just from personal experience: * Munich - 1,200 km * Berlin - 422 km * Toronto - 973 km * Metro Vancouver - 4,600 km But comparing the cumulative length of bike-paths is a bit of a silly comparison anyway.
mdale 6y ago
For some reason hyper minimalism comes to mind :) http://www.cc.com/video-clips/2zifz2/upright-citizens-brigade-woodsy-office http://www.cc.com/video-clips/2zifz2/upright-citizens-brigad...
gautamcgoel 6y ago
I lost interest in the city as soon as the article pointed out that the city's "environmentalism" was rooted in opposition to a nuclear power plant. This kind of thinking is backwards and self-destructive.
- Aperocky 6y ago
  Not just the city, Germany made the decision to shut down ALL of the nuclear power plants when Fukushima happened. Now they found they're dependent on Russian gas.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    That is not true on many accounts. The decision to phase out nuclear energy was taken in the beginning of the 2000 years. There was some extension of the operating time when Merkel came to power, which was taken back after Fukushima. This also affects plants which are very old, so would need to be replaced or undergo some severe modernisation anyway. There have been no new German nuclear power plants since the early 80ies. Then, Germany always depended on fossil fuels. Nuclear power was never more than 30% of the electricity mix, not counting heating and transportation. And except coal, the fossil fuels are all imported. The only energy source we can grow domestically are renewables. So yes, we depend on gas import, as this is the cleanest fossil fuel available. Currently most of it is coming from Russia, a trade which is beneficial to both countries. But there would be other sources if needed, the US is applying considerable pressure to Germany, so we buy gas from the US instead.
    - Aperocky 6y ago
      All fair, but 30% is not a small slice. All of that need to be replaced by something else, and the only thing that's quick enough to replace it was fossil fuel. Germany is also not exactly the ideal place for solar power generation. It's still leave people scratching over why you guys ditched nuclear energy. The newer version of nuclear reactors are safer than fossil when you factor in pollution, and EU itself has expertise (from France).
baybal2 6y ago
I spent 2 weeks in another Freiburg, in Switzerland. German cities look to me to be too sleepy, and boring. Can't think of that being considered futuristic. They are still building buildings out of wood, and plaster... Preference for stone paving over asphalt feel anachronistic.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
valuearb 6y ago
I found it interesting that an article on a city is chock full of photos but only one has an easily discernible person, and they are a bike rider in the distance with their face blurred. In the photography architecture is preeminent over people.
- brettt 6y ago
  That may be due to privacy laws in Germany, a lot of houses are blurred out on google maps for example.
  - usr1106 6y ago
    Privacy laws are the same nowaday all over EU more or less (the are some national differences). The difference is that the awareness for privacy in Germany has been much higher at least since the early 1990s when a census was declared unconstitutional in supreme court. A long time becfore surveillance capitalism was thing. Germany probably has the biggest share of people opposing Google in all markets they operate in. And still one of the bigger Firefox market shares.
    - Dahoon 6y ago
      Sad that the awareness makes very little difference. Looking at CryptoAG, Maximator, etc. Germany is one of the worst sinners right below UK and US.
      - wusel 6y ago
        What's that about Maximator?
        LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        Spooks meeting in a pub, backstaging deals, while drinking (strong) beer of that brand.
brailsafe 6y ago
Also home to SmashingMagazine. Attended their conference there in 2012, and I left with a very positive impression of the city.
- raindropm 6y ago
  Didn't know they're based in Germany. Several years ago it is THE web I need to check everyday haha.
  - brailsafe 6y ago
    It was one of the first sites I used even when I was learning the basics of Illustrator and InDesign techniques about 12 years ago. I still get their newsletter and check the site every so often, particularly when it comes to CSS techniques (as well as css-tricks).
CharlesMerriam2 6y ago
Well, yeah. Good luck with that. -- California
woodpanel 6y ago
Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can dispose per month is highly regulated, via communal key-card opened dumpsters. Once you’ve reached your threshold, the dumpsters stay closed. If you ever where to forget, say, your toddlers diapers you have two options: Enjoy the smell for the remaining time period or brace for the walk of shame of asking your neighbors to forgive your sin, alleviate your family from the smell and selflessly take in your diapers. Rest assured that this selflessness will at least come with an inquiry of why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place. Alas, people who are annoyed by this leave, with the share of those who think such behavior is ok ever increases.
- prox 6y ago
  I think such behaviour is ok, but that’s because I feel that is what it means to be socially invested. But I also recognize that for other countries this might seem restrictive or weird (as in why would you do that?) In practice, and I currently live in a socially cohesive neighborhood, in practice it is just very laidback and it’s about helping eachother out and live and let live.
  - bartread 6y ago
    As an example of the cultural difference you're talking about: I don't think this is social cohesion. This is highly intrusive: people interfering with other peoples' lives, constantly scrutinising and fault-finding, and sticking their noses in where they don't belong. To me it sounds absolutely intolerable.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      > To me it sounds absolutely intolerable. I thought of Sartre's No Exit. But for the type that would go around casting judgement on others for religious infractions in a previous age, it must be paradise.
ornornor 6y ago
> why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place. A good question indeed?
- hdjdbtbgwjsn 6y ago
  Even the Amish use real nappies rather than messing around with reusables. Real nappies are better for baby and toddler bums, easier for already stressed parents and more hygienic. Reusables result in massive energy and water waste, they are a health hazard if not washed properly (many manufacturers washing instructions are very inadequate. They must be washed at a minimum of 60°C whatever your manufacturer said), release loads of microplastics and are a lot more work.
  - ornornor 6y ago
    What do the Amish have to do with diapers?
    - hdjdbtbgwjsn 6y ago
      They do a serious assessment of every new technology to decide if it adds value to their society. Disposable nappies are one of the few technologies they decided to use.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Disposable nappies are one of the few technologies they decided to use. As they don't huddle in caves without tools, the Amish use lots of technology. They actually use fair amounts of modern technology, it's just that the things they reject are pretty central to modern mainstream lifestyle.
        luckylion 6y ago
        The Amish didn't start evaluating new technologies in the stone age. If you look at technologies invented after the hammer, of course you'll have a hammer. But you won't necessarily have a smart phone or an Echo.
danrl 6y ago
Not ITT: The obvious topic of crime in Freiburg. OK, in 2019 the lost the lead of city with most crimes per 100.000 inhabitants. But Freiburg still scored 3rd place. Freiburg has many faces and the linked article is a very selective subset of what Freiburg is. Don't be fooled.
- ketzu 6y ago
  According to [1] it placed 13th (of 40) last year with 9.798 crimes/100k inhabitants. According to [2] it was 9th in 2018. Combining the two ([2]also lists the safest 10 cities) I question the impact for the lower parts of that list, as the difference in absolute numbers for the lower "safe" cities and the lower "dangerous" cities is quite low. [1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/200790/umfrage/gefaehrlichste-staedte-in-deutschland/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/200790/umfrag... [2] https://www.allianzdirect.de/hausratversicherung/gefaehrlichste-staedte-deutschland-ratgeber/ https://www.allianzdirect.de/hausratversicherung/gefaehrlich... Note: [1] switched from public to premium staitstic for me when opening it for a second and third time...
- iforgotpassword 6y ago
  City with most crimes worldwide? According to stats from 2018 it was only number one in Baden-Wurttemberg, not even all of Germany. https://www.chilli-freiburg.de/stadtgeplauder/politik-wirtschaft/hotspot-fuer-langfinger-freiburg-bleibt-die-kriminellste-stadt-im-land-trotz-ruecklaeufiger-zahlen/ https://www.chilli-freiburg.de/stadtgeplauder/politik-wirtsc... It still seems to be relatively safe.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  What explains the high rate of crime there?
  - 0x008 6y ago
    bicycle theft maybe? 34% of people living in Freiburg do their daily commute on a bike and I guess most households own 2-3 bikes. I couldn't find any statistics, but Münster, for example, also has a bike usage of >40% and they have a horrendous crime statistic beacuse of bike theft (on average 13 people will have their bikes stolen each day).
nicky0 6y ago
Do they still have the cool little water channels flowing through the city center streets?
- flohrian 6y ago
  Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle
Fooloo 6y ago
Fun fact: There is a new series which places it's stories in Freiburg: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9849210/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9849210/ This resembles student life in that city quite good except the fucking housing market. Where it is really a pain to find an affordable shared flat.
alimw 6y ago
In spite of the obvious conclusion that the rights of pedestrians have won out over cars in Freiburg, the lasting memory I have of my visit is of people waiting obediently on the kerb of an entirely empty road because the green light to cross hadn't come on yet
- throwaway8451 6y ago
  I'm german and I often wait there too. As long as I can remember thinking about this, I've seen it as habitual practice of self-control, i.e. practising self-control by not giving in to the urge to cross the street early - and automatically on top of that because it became a habit long ago.
- Micoloth 6y ago
  I guess at the end of the day they are Germans lol
- ivan1783 6y ago
  Part of this is showing to children that there are rules and the rules should be followed. If there are a bunch of people waiting and no kids around, it takes just one to step into the road and the rest will follow. If you do the same with kids watching you, somebody will yell at you.
kkdsafjid 6y ago
"Freiburg: the German citiy whose politics align best with our (the BBC's) ideology" would have been a more accurate title. They have some bicycles and some solar cells, and the major is from the leftist Green party.
turing_complete 6y ago
When I think of futuristic, I think of anything but Freiburg.

282 points by mitchbob 6y ago

Freiburg is a super nice place as long as you've got disposable income to spend to live in one of the preferred quarters, like Wiehre, Herdern, etc. If you don't, then like in many south-German cities (located in mountain valleys where space is scarce), you're living in a place without any green in sight (ok Freiburg's Stühlinger is quite green, and still affordable, though I'm guessing it's been getting more expensive in recent years). The problem with living in Vauban-style high-tech houses with photovoltaics, ground energy, etc. is the cost of maintenance, or finding people for maintenance in the first place. We really only can tell something about sustainability towards the end of life of polystyrole or mineral wool walls (30 years?).

Fnoord 6y ago
It was a lot of fun (and quite a special experience) visiting the city. Don't have to live there.
- mordechai9000 6y ago
  It was wonderful to visit, but I am still a little salty about the Schlossberg. It has an incline elevator, not a funicular! And the Schlossberg tower was closed to the public. And, of course, my daughter stepped in the Bächle repeatedly. They were like a magnet for her. I'm joking about being salty. Well, mostly. I want to go back and do more hiking. Hopefully, the tower will be open to the public, next time.
  - hansjorg 6y ago
    According to Wikipedia: > It is local superstition that if you accidentally step in the Bächle, you will marry a Freiburger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
I live in Austria and it's the same. Houses in the urban forests are really picturesque and a marker for high quality of life but unless you're a 10%er millionaire they're out of reach. Everyone else is cramped in concrete blocks but of course, that's rarely shown in photos or articles.
- newyankee 6y ago
  10 m or 100k ?
- tluyben2 6y ago
  Just clicking around on real estate sites, large houses with gardens in nature seem to be rather cheap there. Maybe you are in another region but with mortgage % low, the prices like [0][1][2] are far from needing to be a millionaire. [0] https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t67035189/ https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t67035189/ [1] https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t67126374/ https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t67126374/ [2] https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t66305759/ https://en.arkadia.com/eden-t66305759/
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    Of course prices of old houses in need of maintenance, far away from the nearest city, in regions with little to no jobs, next to the border with Eastern European countries, will be cheap. Nobody wants to live there. Try looking at homes in the suburbs of desirable cities with jobs and see 10x prices. If we're just looking for random homes on the internet you can find better deals in villages in southern Europe but there's always at least one catch why cheap homes are cheap.
    - tluyben2 6y ago
      > Nobody wants to live there. Nobody besides everyone I know... I (nor my friends or family) would never want to live in or close to a city. Let alone in a suburb; if in a city then the center. But you are right; still, to pay a 2m mortgage, you do not need to be a millionaire. And for 2m I see nice stuff in Vienna. > catch why cheap homes are cheap. I live in such a home in southern eu and for me there is no catch. Huge garden, swimming pool, large villa for 130k. Always sunny, nature, no polution. Just not close (40min drive; probably faster than a lot of suburb-center commutes though) to a city, that’s a benefit, not a catch.
jgehring 6y ago
> If you don't, then like in many south-German cities (located in mountain valleys where space is scarce), you're living in a place without any green in sight While this is generally true, the newer districts like Vauban also feature city-owned housing that is specifically targeted to be rented by lower-income families. If you're a student there are again lots of options all throughout the city.
thelastinuit 6y ago
Damn. I found the pictures lovely i was thinking in finding a job in IT. But i guess i wont be able to afford a living there.
- jgehring 6y ago
  I think your parent paints a rather extreme picture. The two examples they picked, Wiehre and Herdern, are the upscale neighborhoods with plenty of mansions, and there's rather only one area with large concrete housing blocks (Weingarten). As usual, you pay a premium for the top locations but in terms of quality of living and "greenness" there are many other good spots.
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  Freiburg has many commuters working in Swiss pharma industry around Basel for the much lower cost of living so you should be ok as a single working in IT. If you even find housing, that is.
rfreiberger 6y ago
I really want to visit some day but doesn't sound like it's what I picture in my mind as a old German town.
- smueller1234 6y ago
  Actually Freiburg has quarters with plenty of old town charm. And if that's not old town enough, you can always go to one of the smaller towns around, which should have plenty. It's an article that picks out and exaggerates one aspect of the city.
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  What is your idea of an old German town? Heidelberg-like romanticist buildings, medieval wooden housings, Karlsruhe-like baroque or classicist cities? Freiburg has a rather large historic center with a cathedral/monastery church and gates, plus old quarters with lots of red sandstone.
mudita 6y ago
I am writing this from my room in Wiehre right now, for which I pay 300 euro per month. Ok, it's a room in a flat I share with 3 flatmates, not everybody wants to live like this, but still, even Wiehre and Herdern are hardly quarters only for the super rich. Additionally Freiburg is so small that you can be pretty much anywhere within 15 minutes by bike, it really does not matter so much which quarter you live in.

jgehring 6y ago

Nice to see my neighborhood (Vauban) featured here :) It's an awesome place to raise kids as it provides an almost village-like environment, being right at the edge of the city and hence the edge of the black forest. But it also comes with the immediate benefits of a nearby regional hub and with plenty of next-door daycare/kindergarten institutions, playgrounds and a ton of other kids. This was one of the main factors that made us move back here after two years in SF. As elsewhere, affordable, or even available housing is now an issue, in particular for families. Prices have been on a sharp increase over the last years, and although the there's quite some construction (and plans to add a whole new district) it's not keeping up with demand.

Ericson2314 6y ago

Pity its genesis was anti-nuclear, but looks like mostly good stuff since. Ban those cars!

Meandering 6y ago
Fear has a way of disarming logic.
- pvorb 6y ago
  I don't think it's unreasonable to fear nuclear accidents, as history has shown us.
  - ajmadesc 6y ago
    It is unreasonable. We over weigh the risk based on the exposure an accident gets, not the death toll . History shows the highest kwh per human life of any energy source.
    - pvorb 6y ago
      But there's more to it than the death toll. If something goes bad this would turn a large area into a wasteland, that will be uninhabitable for thousands of years. And how would you prevent future civilizations from opening nuclear waste deposits that should not be opened? I think it's just too complex and we should look for simpler alternives.
      - Baeocystin 6y ago
        >And how would you prevent future civilizations from opening nuclear waste deposits that should not be opened? A depot where the waste is beats the heck out what we're doing now, which is spewing waste directly into the atmosphere, which effects everywhere.
        pvorb 6y ago

codr7 6y ago

Lived there for about a year, reasonably close to the center; but moved to a smaller country side village once our son was born. It was very nice to have the Black Forest right around the corner but the city had an icky hipster vibe from my experience.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
Consider Baden then, my backyard was facing the Black Forrest, I could see what appeared to be a skiing slope lift and on clear day you could see castle from my room and when I was working outdoors. It's my favorite part of Baden-Wuttenberg and of all Germany really. But, as someone above mentioned its rather expensive, not Switzerland expensive, but still pretty expensive. The recent Netflix series Biohackers [1] was essentially just one big promo for Freiburg, perhaps trying to compete with Berlin in 'coolness' factor for Gen Z? 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHBOUvgBI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atHBOUvgBI8

porknubbins 6y ago

400km of bike trails is an insane amount for a small town, assuming they aren’t counting bike lanes. I doubt any of the 1M+ pop cities I’ve lived in came anywhere close to that in bike or MUTs.

muep 6y ago
Oulu, a 200k town in Finland, claims to have 600 km. It still could do with some more bike paths and improvements to the existing ones, but it is at a level where almost all places are reasonably easy to access by bicycle.
- usr1106 6y ago
  You can't compare a Finnish city/municipality with a German one. In Germany it's often 5-6 km to the next municipality. In Finland it's 5-6 km to the next residential area in the (few) big cities. I'd guess the coverage of bike paths in Freiburg and Oulu might be very similar. It's the cities that are not comparable. Finnish municipalities often have the size of German county (Landkreis), but not even the population of a German city. (I have lived in Germany and Finland. But have never visited Freiburg and it's decades that I biked in or even visited Oulu the last time.)
mihaaly 6y ago
I'd call it adequate instead. > I doubt any of the 1M+ pop cities I’ve lived in came anywhere close to that And this sad.
- pierrebeaucamp 6y ago
  > I'd call it adequate instead. It's above average for sure. As a counterexample, take the city of Münster, which covers twice the area of Freiburg and is often praised as one of the most bike-friendly cities in Germany. It only claims to have 300km of bike lanes. > > I doubt any of the 1M+ pop cities I’ve lived in came anywhere close to that > And this sad. There are a lot of 1M+ cities that have more than that. Just from personal experience: * Munich - 1,200 km * Berlin - 422 km * Toronto - 973 km * Metro Vancouver - 4,600 km But comparing the cumulative length of bike-paths is a bit of a silly comparison anyway.

mdale 6y ago

For some reason hyper minimalism comes to mind :) http://www.cc.com/video-clips/2zifz2/upright-citizens-brigade-woodsy-office http://www.cc.com/video-clips/2zifz2/upright-citizens-brigad...

gautamcgoel 6y ago

I lost interest in the city as soon as the article pointed out that the city's "environmentalism" was rooted in opposition to a nuclear power plant. This kind of thinking is backwards and self-destructive.

Aperocky 6y ago
Not just the city, Germany made the decision to shut down ALL of the nuclear power plants when Fukushima happened. Now they found they're dependent on Russian gas.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  That is not true on many accounts. The decision to phase out nuclear energy was taken in the beginning of the 2000 years. There was some extension of the operating time when Merkel came to power, which was taken back after Fukushima. This also affects plants which are very old, so would need to be replaced or undergo some severe modernisation anyway. There have been no new German nuclear power plants since the early 80ies. Then, Germany always depended on fossil fuels. Nuclear power was never more than 30% of the electricity mix, not counting heating and transportation. And except coal, the fossil fuels are all imported. The only energy source we can grow domestically are renewables. So yes, we depend on gas import, as this is the cleanest fossil fuel available. Currently most of it is coming from Russia, a trade which is beneficial to both countries. But there would be other sources if needed, the US is applying considerable pressure to Germany, so we buy gas from the US instead.
  - Aperocky 6y ago
    All fair, but 30% is not a small slice. All of that need to be replaced by something else, and the only thing that's quick enough to replace it was fossil fuel. Germany is also not exactly the ideal place for solar power generation. It's still leave people scratching over why you guys ditched nuclear energy. The newer version of nuclear reactors are safer than fossil when you factor in pollution, and EU itself has expertise (from France).

baybal2 6y ago

I spent 2 weeks in another Freiburg, in Switzerland. German cities look to me to be too sleepy, and boring. Can't think of that being considered futuristic. They are still building buildings out of wood, and plaster... Preference for stone paving over asphalt feel anachronistic.

deleted 6y ago
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valuearb 6y ago

I found it interesting that an article on a city is chock full of photos but only one has an easily discernible person, and they are a bike rider in the distance with their face blurred. In the photography architecture is preeminent over people.

brettt 6y ago
That may be due to privacy laws in Germany, a lot of houses are blurred out on google maps for example.
- usr1106 6y ago
  Privacy laws are the same nowaday all over EU more or less (the are some national differences). The difference is that the awareness for privacy in Germany has been much higher at least since the early 1990s when a census was declared unconstitutional in supreme court. A long time becfore surveillance capitalism was thing. Germany probably has the biggest share of people opposing Google in all markets they operate in. And still one of the bigger Firefox market shares.
  - Dahoon 6y ago
    Sad that the awareness makes very little difference. Looking at CryptoAG, Maximator, etc. Germany is one of the worst sinners right below UK and US.
    - wusel 6y ago
      What's that about Maximator?
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        Spooks meeting in a pub, backstaging deals, while drinking (strong) beer of that brand.

brailsafe 6y ago

Also home to SmashingMagazine. Attended their conference there in 2012, and I left with a very positive impression of the city.

raindropm 6y ago
Didn't know they're based in Germany. Several years ago it is THE web I need to check everyday haha.
- brailsafe 6y ago
  It was one of the first sites I used even when I was learning the basics of Illustrator and InDesign techniques about 12 years ago. I still get their newsletter and check the site every so often, particularly when it comes to CSS techniques (as well as css-tricks).

CharlesMerriam2 6y ago

Well, yeah. Good luck with that. -- California

woodpanel 6y ago

Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can dispose per month is highly regulated, via communal key-card opened dumpsters. Once you’ve reached your threshold, the dumpsters stay closed. If you ever where to forget, say, your toddlers diapers you have two options: Enjoy the smell for the remaining time period or brace for the walk of shame of asking your neighbors to forgive your sin, alleviate your family from the smell and selflessly take in your diapers. Rest assured that this selflessness will at least come with an inquiry of why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place. Alas, people who are annoyed by this leave, with the share of those who think such behavior is ok ever increases.

prox 6y ago
I think such behaviour is ok, but that’s because I feel that is what it means to be socially invested. But I also recognize that for other countries this might seem restrictive or weird (as in why would you do that?) In practice, and I currently live in a socially cohesive neighborhood, in practice it is just very laidback and it’s about helping eachother out and live and let live.
- bartread 6y ago
  As an example of the cultural difference you're talking about: I don't think this is social cohesion. This is highly intrusive: people interfering with other peoples' lives, constantly scrutinising and fault-finding, and sticking their noses in where they don't belong. To me it sounds absolutely intolerable.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    > To me it sounds absolutely intolerable. I thought of Sartre's No Exit. But for the type that would go around casting judgement on others for religious infractions in a previous age, it must be paradise.

ornornor 6y ago

> why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place. A good question indeed?

hdjdbtbgwjsn 6y ago
Even the Amish use real nappies rather than messing around with reusables. Real nappies are better for baby and toddler bums, easier for already stressed parents and more hygienic. Reusables result in massive energy and water waste, they are a health hazard if not washed properly (many manufacturers washing instructions are very inadequate. They must be washed at a minimum of 60°C whatever your manufacturer said), release loads of microplastics and are a lot more work.
- ornornor 6y ago
  What do the Amish have to do with diapers?
  - hdjdbtbgwjsn 6y ago
    They do a serious assessment of every new technology to decide if it adds value to their society. Disposable nappies are one of the few technologies they decided to use.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Disposable nappies are one of the few technologies they decided to use. As they don't huddle in caves without tools, the Amish use lots of technology. They actually use fair amounts of modern technology, it's just that the things they reject are pretty central to modern mainstream lifestyle.
      - luckylion 6y ago
        The Amish didn't start evaluating new technologies in the stone age. If you look at technologies invented after the hammer, of course you'll have a hammer. But you won't necessarily have a smart phone or an Echo.

danrl 6y ago

Not ITT: The obvious topic of crime in Freiburg. OK, in 2019 the lost the lead of city with most crimes per 100.000 inhabitants. But Freiburg still scored 3rd place. Freiburg has many faces and the linked article is a very selective subset of what Freiburg is. Don't be fooled.

ketzu 6y ago
According to [1] it placed 13th (of 40) last year with 9.798 crimes/100k inhabitants. According to [2] it was 9th in 2018. Combining the two ([2]also lists the safest 10 cities) I question the impact for the lower parts of that list, as the difference in absolute numbers for the lower "safe" cities and the lower "dangerous" cities is quite low. [1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/200790/umfrage/gefaehrlichste-staedte-in-deutschland/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/200790/umfrag... [2] https://www.allianzdirect.de/hausratversicherung/gefaehrlichste-staedte-deutschland-ratgeber/ https://www.allianzdirect.de/hausratversicherung/gefaehrlich... Note: [1] switched from public to premium staitstic for me when opening it for a second and third time...
iforgotpassword 6y ago
City with most crimes worldwide? According to stats from 2018 it was only number one in Baden-Wurttemberg, not even all of Germany. https://www.chilli-freiburg.de/stadtgeplauder/politik-wirtschaft/hotspot-fuer-langfinger-freiburg-bleibt-die-kriminellste-stadt-im-land-trotz-ruecklaeufiger-zahlen/ https://www.chilli-freiburg.de/stadtgeplauder/politik-wirtsc... It still seems to be relatively safe.
oh_sigh 6y ago
What explains the high rate of crime there?
- 0x008 6y ago
  bicycle theft maybe? 34% of people living in Freiburg do their daily commute on a bike and I guess most households own 2-3 bikes. I couldn't find any statistics, but Münster, for example, also has a bike usage of >40% and they have a horrendous crime statistic beacuse of bike theft (on average 13 people will have their bikes stolen each day).

nicky0 6y ago

Do they still have the cool little water channels flowing through the city center streets?

flohrian 6y ago
Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle

Fooloo 6y ago

Fun fact: There is a new series which places it's stories in Freiburg: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9849210/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9849210/ This resembles student life in that city quite good except the fucking housing market. Where it is really a pain to find an affordable shared flat.

alimw 6y ago

In spite of the obvious conclusion that the rights of pedestrians have won out over cars in Freiburg, the lasting memory I have of my visit is of people waiting obediently on the kerb of an entirely empty road because the green light to cross hadn't come on yet

throwaway8451 6y ago
I'm german and I often wait there too. As long as I can remember thinking about this, I've seen it as habitual practice of self-control, i.e. practising self-control by not giving in to the urge to cross the street early - and automatically on top of that because it became a habit long ago.
Micoloth 6y ago
I guess at the end of the day they are Germans lol
ivan1783 6y ago
Part of this is showing to children that there are rules and the rules should be followed. If there are a bunch of people waiting and no kids around, it takes just one to step into the road and the rest will follow. If you do the same with kids watching you, somebody will yell at you.

kkdsafjid 6y ago

"Freiburg: the German citiy whose politics align best with our (the BBC's) ideology" would have been a more accurate title. They have some bicycles and some solar cells, and the major is from the leftist Green party.

turing_complete 6y ago

When I think of futuristic, I think of anything but Freiburg.