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Neanderthal gene linked to increased pain sensitivity
- nickgrosvenor 6y agoI do not have this gene
- wfbarks 6y agoIt brings me great pain that this website is down
- bpodgursky 6y agoIt's interesting that the article doesn't point out that red-haired individuals also feel more pain... and Neanderthals also likely had red hair.
- ComputerGuru 6y agoI didn't know about their feeling more pain, but I know they require higher doses of anesthetic to knock them out for surgery (as in, anesthesiologists are taught this as a matter or course).
- EdwardDiego 6y agoI wish dentists were, I (as a proud ginger man) have had to explain carefully that I'll need more local to several dentists, a few of whom didn't believe me. We're also apparently less sensitive to electrical pain than others, so can we call that a superpower?
- 0134340 6y agoThat immediately came to my mind also. Apparently it's due to a variation of the MC1R gene which according to what I've read here, fourth paragraph [0], both developed independently of one another. Fascinating. 0) https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/ancient-dna-and-neanderthals/dna-genotypes-and-phenotypes https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/ancient-dna-an... Also it's not necessarily the reception of pain itself that's different, as someone else said, but the perception or anticipation of it [1] that changes the degree of anesthetization required. 1) https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-redheads-really-need-more-pain-medication-3157333 https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-redheads-really-need-more-...
- jb775 6y agoIt's been found that Neanderthals didn't even carry the gene linked to "modern" red hair[1]. Also, I believe them having red hair was actually about as rare as it is nowadays. [1] - https://theconversation.com/neanderthals-didnt-give-us-red-hair-but-they-certainly-changed-the-way-we-sleep-85173 https://theconversation.com/neanderthals-didnt-give-us-red-h...
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- h0l0cube 6y ago> Researchers have access to only a few Neanderthal genomes, and most of those have been sequenced at a low resolution. This has made it hard to identify mutations that evolved after their lineage split from that of humans some 500,000–750,000 years ago. But in the past few years, Pääbo and his team have generated three high-quality Neanderthal genomes from DNA found in caves in Croatia and Russia. Can anyone with domain knowledge chime in on this? Is the sample set of genomes enough to suggest these mutations were prevalent in the neanderthal population? And even so, might they have had a completely different effect on neanderthal physiology?
- bencollier49 6y agoI wonder how neanderthal genetics varied from locality to locality. Presumably those in Russia were somewhat different to those in e.g. Gibralter.
- dahfizz 6y agoMy understanding is that Neanderthals didn't occupy that large of a region. There are ancient human ancestors all over the globe but actual Homo neanderthalensis did not leave modern day Europe. It is actually thought that this could have contributed to their decline. Compare with modern day humans who explored the whole globe: some ancient dude even paddled his way to Australia! It's hard for a species that widespread to go extinct.
- dalbasal 6y agoHomo Neanderthalis has been found in europe, the middle east, the altai mountains, armenia and other places. The were widespread, and interbred with sapiens, denisovans and probably other types. There is even renewed interest in finding American and/or Australian neanderthals and denisovans... As the known range has grown, those seem more plausible.
- dalbasal 6y agoProbably a lot. First, neanderthals were closely related to Denisovans. In Denisova cave itself, both neanderthals & denisovans were found and even a first generation hybrid. So.. you could call it a denisovan-neanderthal complex with various subpopulations over time and geography. The altai neanderthals have been suggested as a subspecies/type... so there are differences there. In europe and the middle east, there's a decent phenotypical distinction between early and late (classical) neanderthals. The earlier type was less distinctively neanderthal... kind of more sapien looking. Later populations developed that distinctively bony face. ..Sapiens too, probably. We descend mostly from a small population of sapiens, but that doesn't mean other populations didn't exist. They just don't have descendants. For example, modern europeans have a relatively homogenous, low level of neanderthal DNA. At different points of history, certain populations could have ben 25% neanderthal... and genetically distinct from other groups. This is all normal mammalian population dynamics. Modern Sapiens are the unusual ones. We went through a genetic bottleneck and lost a lot of diversity.
- anon354 6y agoIronically, given that people of African descent have the least Neanderthal DNA, this study actually bolsters a supposedly discredited, baseless stereotype that they are less sensitive to pain: > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/
- DangitBobby 6y agoAnd here's an article that claims they feel more pain! https://www.diagnosticimaging.com/view/mri-reveals-greater-pain-response-african-americans https://www.diagnosticimaging.com/view/mri-reveals-greater-p...
- vanderZwan 6y ago"People of African descent" have the highest genetic diversity among all human subgroups. That fact alone makes making generalizations based on supposed genetic make-up preposterous. Also, you have to be absurdly blind to the history of scientific racism to not understand that the stereotype of being less sensitive to pain has a historical origin in justifying abusing slaves by dehumanizing them.
- ralfd 6y agoThe slave trade didn’t sample randomly from the very big continent though. Most African-Americans descent from West/Central-Africa.
- krona 6y ago"People of African descent" have the highest genetic diversity among all human subgroups. Isn't that a truism? All humans are of African descent.
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- Jaruzel 6y agoI am NOT approaching this from any kind of racial stereotyping, but merely from a genetic point of view, but reading the article I had the same thought. I had previously understood, that native domestic sub-Saharan Africans (i.e. those living on the continent, with clear African based heritage) did not have any Neanderthal DNA, as Neanderthals were further down the evolutionary line of the first emigration out of Africa, and were primarily European based. Therefore those with purely African genetic history would never had interbred with them. Is this still true, or have I been walking around with a massive misunderstanding here? As a footnote, We need to still be able to ask these questions without being afraid of the racism response. We are all different, we should embrace that and not let it affect scientific discussion or discovery.
- 1_over_n 6y agoIt would be interesting to see if this gene is more prevelent in those who end up as opiate abuse abuse addicts at a population level.
- raducu 6y agoOr those more likely to suffer from anxiety and other mental illnesses. Though the article says its about nerves, not brain stuff.
- Duller-Finite 6y agoWhy are people so keen to look for genetic explanations, rather than socioeconomic ones?
- teunispeters 6y agoBecause there's a genetic component in opiate addiction.
- at_a_remove 6y agoThe real question is why are people so avoidant of possible genetic causes?
- formerly_proven 6y agoBecause "genetic causes" will be abused (and arguably is pretty much just a dogwhistle) for racial stereotyping and Untermensch classifications, so you better be damn sure about the accuracy and impact magnitude before talking about it.
- at_a_remove 6y agoYes. We live in a kind of reflexive terror of a regime that has been dead for the better part of a century and we must not look at certain parts of reality, lest they be true, because those people did something terrible related to that field of inquiry. There comes a time when crouching in silence waiting for a dogwhistle to be blown that nobody else can hear becomes paranoia. It would be more reasonable and compassionate to identify genetic risk factors so that the people in question could make more informed choices in their lives, but instead we must keep them (and ourselves) ignorant lest, somewhere in the dark, a reel of Triumph of the Will begins spinning all on its own.
- praveen9920 6y agoIt's known fact that pain has evolutionary advantage but I wonder how could degree of pain has different kind of genetic advantage?
- treeman79 6y agoHaving spent a few years in horrific agony due to poisoning. I suspect it could be along the long the likes of. Let’s do the opposite of whatever that guy does. That guy is moaning for months after fisticuffs with a lion. Let’s try a long stick instead. That guy slept with girls of that tribe. And his parts burn like crazy. Let’s be monogamous. That guy eats donuts all day, and every step is agony. Maybe veggies aren’t so bad.
- praveen9920 6y agoThis could be achieved by binary way of pain. Feeling pain or Not feeling pain. Degree of pain may not have any effect on the above scenarios. right?
- treeman79 6y agoThere is stubbing your toe pain. Watching kids, this does not stop repeat behavior. Then there is pain that is all you can do to not jump off a cliff to end it. This, tends to change personal behavior. Then there is pain that is slightly less then jump off a cliff. But it goes on for months, non stop, making every moment a horrible experience. This has a huge impact on all those around you. Some pity you, some try and help, some wish you would die already. Most avoid you. Degree makes a massive difference. Wish it was otherwise.
- elliekelly 6y agoPerhaps it made them more empathetic? When I visited the Museum of Human Evolution in Burgos, Spain, they took us out to the Atapuerca excavation site and told us they’d found evidence of a Neanderthal with a life-threatening tooth abscess. Apparently he would have been in incredible pain and his tribe(?) mates managed to keep him alive by pre-chewing his food for him. They also found evidence of disabled Neanderthals who were helped/kept alive by the group but I can’t recall the specifics of the disability to remember whether any pain may have been involved. I would think pro-social behaviors like that have a serious evolutionary advantage.
- mouzogu 6y agoI wonder if that implies that neanderthals had greater pain sensitivity in general. Pure speculation but it would be interesting if that was related to the apparent harshness and difficulty of life at the time. Perhaps it was something selected for survival.
- varjag 6y agoThey didn't survive, so not sure what that says.
- cortic 6y ago> in a sample of British people, those who had inherited the Neanderthal version of NaV1.7 Apparently they[we] did survive.
- varjag 6y agoAt 0.4% it looks more like a recessive trait.
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- ejolto 6y agoIf we get wiped out in a nuclear war or because of global warming in the next 10k years, Homo Sapiens would have been around for less time than Neanderthals. Thus Neanderthals would have been better at surviving than us. According to wikipedia Homo Sapiens have been around for 300 to 400 thousand years, while Neanderthals existed for 315 thousand to more than 800 thousand years.
- varjag 6y agoNot that it matters here, but an unfalsifiable conjecture is not a very strong argument.
- pedro1976 6y agoIf you are interested in the research of "ancient dna", this is a very nice episode on that topic https://after-on.com/episodes-31-60/034 https://after-on.com/episodes-31-60/034
- postit 6y agoNow I understand why the only drug prescribed after an open chest surgery in Germany was ibuprofen.
- mkl 6y agoWhat do you mean? Because 0.4% of British people have this gene?
- 11235813213455 6y ago> In any case, “pain is something adaptive”, points out Zeberg. “It’s not specifically bad to feel pain.”
- nomoreusernames 6y agoi wonder if that somehow is connected to the huge neuro diversity we see in the expression of the neurotransmitters. and the huge range of different types of intelligence. very cool. thanks for sharing.
- once-in-a-while 6y agoFor those not fearing the Truth: "neanderthals" were normal humans that lived a long life (about 400 years). This was totally normal, about 4000 years ago. If you live that long, some parts of your head bones and also noses and ears never stop growing, this is why they seem a little strange compare to our max. 100 years ages current population. There will come a time (maybe soon) where people will come back to believe the above, like it has been till ca. 70-80 years ago...