10 ms·

I think I am one of the few people who enjoys all sorts of coffee. I have had Espresso in many citys in Italy, all the hip Third Wave coffees, but I can still

by zwaps 6y ago

I think I am one of the few people who enjoys all sorts of coffee. I have had Espresso in many citys in Italy, all the hip Third Wave coffees, but I can still enjoy a Nespresso, a drip machine, Mokka, Turkish coffee, DeLonghi or Jura type coffee or Aeropress. I even find Starbucks has its own taste. They all taste different. I just don‘t get the people who insist coffee can not be bitter and Starbucks roast is the devil. The sneering I get from people who think there is exactly two ways one should enjoy coffee, as super tricked out Espresso, or as mild tea. Seriously. Yes I have had „good“ coffee. Lots of it. I even had a lot of bad „good“ coffee. I sometimes have serious nostalgia for good bad coffee and no one will take it away from me!

esperent 6y ago
There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference). The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create. Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic. Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso). If you think that cleaning up the mess from a coffee machine is too much work, you are just lazy. The only benefit I can think of is that you don't need a sink nearby. But in every case where I have seen a Nespresso machine, there is a sink within at most a two minutes walk.
- peteretep 6y ago
  > it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference Have you tried the 12 and 13 out of 10 intensity capsules?
  - hocuspocus 6y ago
    They're roasted darker and ground finer, but it's still nowhere close to a proper double shot pulled from 15-20g of coffee. Also while the single-origins are good, the arabica and robusta blends are pretty awful in my opinion.
- cillian64 6y ago
  I don't drink much coffee and a bag of ground coffee would go stale in a week. The pods have a shelf life of months if not years (and because I drink so little coffee the waste created is negligible).
  - wodenokoto 6y ago
    Just keep the opened bag in the freeze and top up a small container you keep near your coffee machine.
    - shiftpgdn 6y ago
      Freezing doesn't keep the taste (in fact it'll pull in the weird "freezer flavors" as other stuff in your freezer offgasses) and the freeze/thaw cycle has a negative affect on the flavor profile.
      - Scoundreller 6y ago
        Can keep it in a sealed container for the first issue (glass is great). I don’t understand the 2nd issue: isn’t coffee already solid/frozen?
- pizza234 6y ago
  > Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso) This is not correct, also keeping in mind that it doesn't exist a "normal" espresso machine - the setup is espresso machine and grinder. I'm into espresso, and it takes a lot of effort to make consistent shots. Independently of the quality (to remove the "snob" factor), Nespresso machines are quite consistent. So if one likes the result, they can stick with that and know what they'll get. Beginners and/or low-end equipment, produce very inconsistent shots. There's nothing inherently wrong, but that adds a crucial dimension in the comparison. One may prefer potentially worse but consistent espresso (=Nespresso), than potentially better but wildly inconsistent ones (=beginner+low-end semiautomatic/grinder).
  - Fradow 6y ago
    You don't need a grinder, you can buy grounded coffee at the right size for espresso in supermarkets. I call bullshit on "a lot of effort to make consistent shots". Unless you are a coffee snob, just putting the same amount of coffee everytime and using a tamper will produce an espresso that is the same than the next one. The type of coffee you use and how much water you put is what makes an espresso cup different from the next one (again, as a regular Joe who doesn't have any specific training in coffee and is not a snob).
    - drrotmos 6y ago
      There is no one "right size for espresso". Even with a pressurized filter basket, you can only do so much to achieve proper extraction (i.e. getting the right amount of water through the puck in the right amount of time) without controlling the grind size. What makes an espresso cup different from the next one is not only the beans and how much water you put through it, but also what is extracted from the beans. Even a regular Joe can tell the difference between a under-extracted sour shot and something closer to proper extraction.
      - zoomablemind 6y ago
        Regular Joe is a lot more pragmatic than paying over $3 for a cup or $1.50 for a bit of a shot. Americano is actually a good deal, tastes better than filter, costs less, more volume than espresso shot. Diluting excess of bitterness or sourness for perceived balance, can be tuned with sugar. The saved coins can buy a cookie to go with it, so can sit in the coffee house longer, maybe meet someone new. Good job, Joe!
- zwaps 6y ago
  Well I don't own a Nespresso for that reason, so I agree. I drink too much coffee at home. I have several options, because I enjoy different kinds of coffee at different times. However, I see a lot of Nespresso machines in hotels and it somewhat makes sense, because what else could you put there? A decent Jura would be too expensive, a drip coffee maker not "good enough" (see my post). With an espresso machine, you'd also have to provide a grinder and a barista, because no one would want to spend time learning the setup up on a trip.
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  That, and Nespresso capsules are way overpriced. I owned a Nespresso machine years ago (got it as a present) but couldn't justify the waste. Also, you must order original Nespresso capsules either at the Nespresso shop (of which there's maybe one in every major city at best), or order it online. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but online shopping is no progress for me since it just means I have to wait at home for an unreliable delivery service when I have plenty of shops in walking distance. So when third-party capsules became available, I immediately bought those instead (while they're cheap, they're not nearly as good and varied as original Nespresso capsules, though, IMO). However, one of those third-party capsules melted/stuck in the holder and I had to peel it off using a knife. That of course ruined the machine which now would leak pressure at the place where I used the knife, so I rejoiced and got rid of the machine :)
- pmlnr 6y ago
  > non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic Erm... all nespressos are aluminium.
  - galoisgirl 6y ago
    Exactly. Most competitors have plastic, but when there's an article criticizing capsule coffee machines, it's always about Nespresso or with a picture of Nespresso pods.
- tikkabhuna 6y ago
  Nespresso do have a recycling program[0]. The recycling bags are free and can be dropped off, again for free. I suppose this might differ from country to country, but in the UK what they propose sounds pretty good? My housemate had a "proper" coffee machine and it was ok for one cup, but it temperamental. If I packed it too tight it wouldn't work. I couldn't reliably get the same result. It is also very hands on. Nespresso machines let me make 2 within a few minutes while I prepare breakfast. Start warming up machine, milk in frother, cup under nozzle, press start. [0] https://www.nespresso.com/uk/en/recycling-initiatives?name=nav&id=recycing-menu&creative=Why-Recycle&position=5-2 https://www.nespresso.com/uk/en/recycling-initiatives?name=n...
  - bkor 6y ago
    > Nespresso do have a recycling program That they have a recycling program isn't that interesting. Nespresso creates a waste/problem, they should be ensuring the waste is minimized. Meaning, not just a recycling program (I doubt it's used much), but also do something if it appears customers are ignoring the recycling program. It feels too much like an easy excuse otherwise. In Netherlands the industry used to also point towards largely ignored recycling programs. For some cases (plastic bottles) the government actually did something with that, then ensured it was used. Basically the measure taken by many countries, small fee which you get back as you hand it in. Handing in is the same place that you get the bottle from. This continues to work with Internet (delivery only) supermarkets; next time they arrive you can hand in the bottles + plastic delivery bags.
    - tikkabhuna 6y ago
      That's a good point. In the UK we're very poor at recycling schemes and there's little motivation other than an individual wanting to help the environment. Maybe recycling bags could be easily weighed (as pods should have a similar weight?) and the persons account could be credited. Balancing the price/reward would be difficult, especially now as thirdparties could easily undercut with no care for the environment. I suppose I'm glad they have a recycling program and it helps me feel like I'm not negatively contributing, but I agree its a shame that the scheme isn't more popular considering how easy it is.
- pico303 6y ago
  We like them because you can make one or two cups without wasting a lot of coffee or water. And unlike other brands, Nespresso pods are made of aluminum, so they can be recycled. In the US, when you order the pods or pick them up in a Nespresso shop, you get a UPS mailer bag. When you use a pod, drop it in the bag. When the bag is full, seal the bag and drop it in a UPS mailbox to recycle the pods with Nespresso. That's something I can't do with the bags from the coffee beans I get in stores here. This article makes a big deal out of the fact that people don't recycle their pods. I'm not sure why that's Nespresso's fault. At least in the US, it's pretty damn painless.
  - TonyTrapp 6y ago
    > We like them because you can make one or two cups without wasting a lot of coffee or water. So just like a regular espresso machine. You put espresso powder for one or two cups in the portafilter, put some water in the tank, done. Tank doesn't need to be filled completely, but you can just keep the water in there for the next espresso. No waste created, and you can even reuse the powder as fertilizer.
    - lostlogin 6y ago
      > You put espresso powder for one or two cups in the portafilter It took me way too long to realise you mean coffee.
  - GordonS 6y ago
    > When you use a pod, drop it in the bag. When the bag is full, seal the bag and drop it in a UPS mailbox to recycle the pods with Nespresso. Hmm, I'm curious about how many pods fill the bag; just wondering about the efficiency/waste of individuals mailing a small bag of aluminium potentially thousands of miles. I can't help but wonder if this system is little more than a platitude from Nespresso to make people feel like they aren't being wasteful. (I don't mean this as an attack on your choice to use a Nespresso machine - I'm just musing about the recycling system you described)
    - welearnednothng 6y ago
- occamrazor 6y ago
  I had a nespresso-compatible coffee machine that also accepted its own compostable pods. Moreover there are many machines (including nespresso machines for offices) which work with pads, i.e. pressed coffee wrapped in a paper filter.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  Especially since there is instant coffee, which isn't as bad as its reputation. Probably high energy use, but at least no plastic.
  - bschwindHN 6y ago
    > which isn't as bad as its reputation What's the best instant coffee out there? I've honestly never had a good one before, but I've only tried instant coffee in Japan.
    - raxxorrax 6y ago
      There are horrible ones and honestly I always buy the more expensive stuff. Nescafé Gold is pretty good. Don't know if the product is called the same outside of Germany/EU (the company is Swiss I believe). Sadly I have no better metric than expensive = good and it isn't really true for most products. There is cheap stuff that tastes really bad though. If you look closely, you can see a difference between more expensive and cheaper products, probably resulting from different production methods.
      - dsego 6y ago
        The jabocs and nescafe gold variants are what I prefer. The ones I buy are either larger granules or fine powder and light brown in color. These are better than the standard black instant coffee which is even more acidic, but it's still awful to drink without milk. I mainly make instant coffee when I can't be bothered with the french press. I have a feeling that these don't provide the same kick and that they hurt my teeth more because of the extra acidity.
    - sciurus 6y ago
      I use Cafe Bustelo's instant espresso at the ratio 1tbsp per six oz. The flavor is quite toasty and bitter, but the mouthfeel is great IMHO and it's exceedingly cheap. I'd love a proper espresso machine or even a moka pot but alas, small children.
    - ValentineC 6y ago
- xwvvvvwx 6y ago
  lavazza makes compostable nespresso pods fwiw.
- zip1234 6y ago
  Nespresso Vertuo, which has aluminum pods, has recycle drop off points for them at certain stores (Williams Sonoma in the US).
  - softwaredoug 6y ago
    Both types of nespresso use aluminum pods
  - esperent 6y ago
    Apparently less than 30% of nesspresso pods get recycled. And that says nothing about any other company's pods which probably have an even lower rate. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-16/most-nespresso-coffee-pods-not-being-recycled/11708910 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-16/most-nespresso-coffee...
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    This simply isn't good enough. Recycling doesn't work if it either isn't convenient enough or isn't part of the communal fabric - and I'd argue that the second isn't there in small-to-medium town America, not to mention that some municipalities have been caught not actually recycling their stuff supposedly destined for recycling. I'd say at a minimum, such a product should always come with postage paid recycling envelopes.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - devchix 6y ago
      Nespresso gives you postage-paid recycling bags which you fill and drop-off at a shipper. > This simply isn't good enough. Recycling doesn't work if it either isn't convenient enough I hate this attitude that one cannot be bothered to do a thing that is universally good, unless it's convenient, easy, and painless. I am an espresso "snob", whatever that word means. I have had a lot of espresso in many places, from excellent to very bad. There's a wide range of good-enough which Nespresso consistently hit, and thus I have forsaken my quest to grind my own beans and be my own barista. Nespresso is better than many high-end coffee shops as well as fine dining establishments, surprising to me.
- hammock 6y ago
  What do you need a sink for? The spent grounds can go in the trash
  - OJFord 6y ago
    Or compost.
  - michaelt 6y ago
    If you're using a coffee machine at home, you get a sink for free as you're probably putting it in your kitchen. If you're using it in an office, it's going to get used 50x as much, and you want a sink nearby to refill the water, empty the drip tray, and house the cleaning supplies for spills - all of which will happen 50x as often. And clean mugs will take a trip via the sink/dishwasher anyway.... Only time I've seen coffee machines away from the sink was in cheap shared office space, where different companies shared the same kitchen but didn't share coffee supplies. People shuffling along corridors with perilously full coffee machine drip trays was a regular sight :)
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      > And clean mugs will take a trip via the sink/dishwasher anyway.... I’m that monster that uses the same mug every day and just give it a quick rinse. Since I finish off the mug each day, it ends up dry (inhibiting growth), and I put nearly boiling weak acid in it daily. I only clean it good when there’s a long weekend or I’m back from holiday.
      - copperx 6y ago
        There's absolutely no shame in that (as long as nobody else uses your mug).
- bradleyjg 6y ago
  > The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create. It’s funny how people are so high and mighty about the small stuff and then let the absolutely enormous stuff pass completely. Are you this judgmental about living in a stand alone house vs an apartment in an apartment building? Taking plane trips for vacation? Or do those bog standard—celebrated even—parts of upper middle class life get a free pass while you sneer down your nose at people that don’t pull their own espresso shots to save a few hundred ounces of plastic a year “for the environment”?
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    Because one is easy to eliminate, and other things are not (or occurs rarely). Making 2 coffees twice a day is something that adds up. Same as with bottled water, you can just buy filter flask/bottle/ etc. and use tap water. Or recycling vs not bothering. This whole argument of: 'Well you drive, or fly, or use coal power etc, so dont bother with little things' it is just cuddling of mind. Conditioning not to care as you can do nothing to change the outcome of anything. So CONSUME! Yes those are small things but its the mindset that will make you more conscious and less egocentric in a long run.
    - thebean11 6y ago
      Getting an apartment instead of a house IS easy in most places, it's just a bigger sacrifice which I think is the point. Privileged people unwilling to make sacrifices sneer at others who might actually might be doing a better job overall.
      - me_me_me 6y ago
        > Privileged people unwilling to make sacrifices sneer at others who might actually might be doing a better job overall. Yes, I agree though its a bit of a straw-man. The world would be a better place if we look inwards for things to improve, instead of outwards for confirmations how everyone else sucks. Also: >Getting an apartment instead of a house IS easy in most places If you have 2 kids and you work from home, then a 2 bedroom apt will hardly be 'easy', both logistically and mentally.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  According to the article the pods are made out of aluminum and 100% recyclable with Nestlé offering to come pick them up at your home.
- interestica 6y ago
  > Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic. I'm not sure if you're just using "Nespresso" as shorthand for "pod-based coffee machine" but the unique thing about the Nespresso system is its use of aluminum (recyclable) pods. Recycling rates may not be high enough, but that's a marketing/UX problem that can be addressed.
- m3kw9 6y ago
  You cannot really do espresso in 5 minutes practically at home. Heat up the machine, fill water, grind beans all takes time. And you need to do clean up after. It takes 10 minutes on avg
  - cyberbanjo 6y ago
    I know it's not the same but AeroPress or Moka Pot at home- fast, tasty, strong. Only it's difficult to serve guest because how little the container is.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    If you dump enoigh money, the machine does most of it for you, you need to click a button" take a piss and come back.
- leonroy 6y ago
  You are right, Nespresso and especially Krups pods are ridiculously wasteful. To put something compostable in a vessel which will take 100s of years to biodegrade feels perverse. That said if people started to make coffee in espresso machines that would if anything be even more wasteful. One, most espresso machines sol are the cheap machines. And they are rickety, poorly made, unrepairable and low longevity. You see lots of them at the local household waste center piled up next to other consumer electronics junk. I could see a proliferation of them being a bigger environmental nuisance than pods. Two, a proper espresso machine takes a fair bit of time to warm up and I wouldn't drink the first shot out of the machine, so they need to be run through a few times, wasting electricity and coffee. I can see the appeal of Nespresso. I don't personally want one, but their convenience and ingenuity is undeniable. If anything Nestle should double down on ensuring the pods are either compostable or that recycling rates improve markedly.
- webignition 6y ago
  Whilst the classic Nespresso machines have potential recycling issues, the vertuo line of machines/pods are more favourable. I was recently given a second-hand Nespresso vertuo machine and I'm very happy with the re-use options. There are stainless steel refillable pods as well as single-use film lids to apply to emptied pods. I'm giving the film lids a go first as the stainless steel pods are quite pricey (around £20 each). I'm able to re-use the pods that came with the machine, refilling with the large supply of ground coffee that I receive as gifts and would otherwise use in a cafetiere. My stash of bagged pre-ground coffee produces excellent results in the vertuo machine with a good crema on top as good as most coffee shops that I've been to. With some freshly-ground good quality coffee, a re-usable vertuo pod or two and a vertuo machine you can make barista-quality coffee with zero non-degradable waste.
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  Here, in Norway, the Nespresso and similar pods are aluminium so you just drop them in the metal recycling bin along with other cans and glass. No plastic involved.
- moltar 6y ago
  In Switzerland they have a separate recycling receptacle for pod waste.
- mcswell 6y ago
  Here (the US), Nespresso ships their pods with pre-paid plastic bags for recycling. We fill the bags with our used pods, and every once in awhile drop them off at UPS. Problem solved.
- blue_devil 6y ago
  Save the grounds in a bag and use for your (home) plants, they love it.
- rstuart4133 6y ago
  > There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference). I suspect it's the personal preference of a lot of people. Pods typically have 5g of coffee. A typical portafilter basket holds 12..21 grams. It's not a small difference.
LoveMortuus 6y ago
I am of the believe that if you don't drink the bad coffee you can't appreciate the good one. For me personally I like any type of coffee, not picky at all. I do mostly drink Turkish because that's what I can make at home. But when here I would just mix the different blends together, not with the purpose of making something special with just too have more coffee
deleted 6y ago
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lvturner 6y ago
I'm exactly the same. In my humble opinion McDonald's coffee offers the best price to cost ratio of any takeaway coffee (at least that I've found) It's far from the best coffee I've ever tasted, but I've yet to have a bad one anywhere.
- lvturner 6y ago
  *price to flavour ratio (seems I can't edit this comment now)
amelius 6y ago
> I think I am one of the few people who enjoys all sorts of coffee. Have you tried Wiener Melange? (Not necessarily recommended) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Melange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Melange
- zwaps 6y ago
  I have even had Einspaenner. Wth...
luxurytent 6y ago
Good bad coffee is anything from a breakfast diner. I love it so!
wjnc 6y ago
I'm in your boat. The tastes good and bad coffees can bring are so diverse. Every few years I even feel a sudden urge to drink a particular instant coffee (Nescafé Gold). The bitters, acids that rise to my nose, a snarky taste with a little bit of burned butter odor. Just great. It reminds me of going on holidays, of rebuilding houses when all you have is hot water and of holiday jobs as a teen. Coffee is a most sentimental drink for me.
matwood 6y ago
Agreed. I love a good espresso, but enjoy most coffee. My daily home coffee is pour over with freshly ground beans. Can't really beat the flavor/price. But, I also like Starbucks and McDs coffee. If anything, they are both very consistent so you get the same cup when traveling.
jclos 6y ago
I am with you on that. I grew up on the good old dripper because it was the typical coffee one would drink in France, and moved on to many types of coffee, espresso, nespresso, aeropress, french press, mokka, cold brew stuff, etc. While I don't like their sweet ones, I even like the basic Starbucks americano, and their instant coffee (Via) is on par with a low to medium quality espresso in my opinion, which isn't bad for an instant coffee at all. I just like coffee.
nkrisc 6y ago
Some people get to focused on optimizing everything (must only drink the "best" coffee) and forget that thrre if some value in variety of quality as well. I enjoy pizza, usually I want the heat pizza I can find. But everyone I've in a while I enjoy a pizza from Domino's as well. Yeah the quality is different, but it's not bad in the sense that it's literally inedible. It's the same reason I enjoy good burgers but also crave McDonald's every so often too. I've bought really good, hard to get beer that was $40 for a 22oz bottle, but I also like a Budweiser every so often too. Having only the best of everything all the time is not only boring, it's expensive too!
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  It's a Veblen Good / conspicuous consumption thing, similar to how blindfolded wine experts can't tell the differences between $40 and $100 bottles of wine. "Wine snobbery" for STEM nerds is craft beer and coffee snobbery.
joncrane 6y ago
I'm with you. I love a carefully crafted single-origin pourover. But I also have a weak spot for 7-11 coffee. Appreciation of the two is not mutually exclusive.
jjice 6y ago
Coffee, like many other things, has a lot of different connections to it than just its taste, and that's one of the best parts about it. When I visit home and I can get a cup of Tim Hortons, just walking in give me memories of high school and all the time I've spent inside one of them. Even the taste of 7/11 coffee brings back some memories of my time in Maine when I lived down the road from one. I read some where once that, despite the quality of a cup of coffee, the thing that will make it the most memorable is the people you're with.

by zwaps 6y ago

esperent 6y ago

There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference). The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create. Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic. Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso). If you think that cleaning up the mess from a coffee machine is too much work, you are just lazy. The only benefit I can think of is that you don't need a sink nearby. But in every case where I have seen a Nespresso machine, there is a sink within at most a two minutes walk.

peteretep 6y ago
> it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference Have you tried the 12 and 13 out of 10 intensity capsules?
- hocuspocus 6y ago
  They're roasted darker and ground finer, but it's still nowhere close to a proper double shot pulled from 15-20g of coffee. Also while the single-origins are good, the arabica and robusta blends are pretty awful in my opinion.
cillian64 6y ago
I don't drink much coffee and a bag of ground coffee would go stale in a week. The pods have a shelf life of months if not years (and because I drink so little coffee the waste created is negligible).
- wodenokoto 6y ago
  Just keep the opened bag in the freeze and top up a small container you keep near your coffee machine.
  - shiftpgdn 6y ago
    Freezing doesn't keep the taste (in fact it'll pull in the weird "freezer flavors" as other stuff in your freezer offgasses) and the freeze/thaw cycle has a negative affect on the flavor profile.
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      Can keep it in a sealed container for the first issue (glass is great). I don’t understand the 2nd issue: isn’t coffee already solid/frozen?
pizza234 6y ago
> Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso) This is not correct, also keeping in mind that it doesn't exist a "normal" espresso machine - the setup is espresso machine and grinder. I'm into espresso, and it takes a lot of effort to make consistent shots. Independently of the quality (to remove the "snob" factor), Nespresso machines are quite consistent. So if one likes the result, they can stick with that and know what they'll get. Beginners and/or low-end equipment, produce very inconsistent shots. There's nothing inherently wrong, but that adds a crucial dimension in the comparison. One may prefer potentially worse but consistent espresso (=Nespresso), than potentially better but wildly inconsistent ones (=beginner+low-end semiautomatic/grinder).
- Fradow 6y ago
  You don't need a grinder, you can buy grounded coffee at the right size for espresso in supermarkets. I call bullshit on "a lot of effort to make consistent shots". Unless you are a coffee snob, just putting the same amount of coffee everytime and using a tamper will produce an espresso that is the same than the next one. The type of coffee you use and how much water you put is what makes an espresso cup different from the next one (again, as a regular Joe who doesn't have any specific training in coffee and is not a snob).
  - drrotmos 6y ago
    There is no one "right size for espresso". Even with a pressurized filter basket, you can only do so much to achieve proper extraction (i.e. getting the right amount of water through the puck in the right amount of time) without controlling the grind size. What makes an espresso cup different from the next one is not only the beans and how much water you put through it, but also what is extracted from the beans. Even a regular Joe can tell the difference between a under-extracted sour shot and something closer to proper extraction.
    - zoomablemind 6y ago
      Regular Joe is a lot more pragmatic than paying over $3 for a cup or $1.50 for a bit of a shot. Americano is actually a good deal, tastes better than filter, costs less, more volume than espresso shot. Diluting excess of bitterness or sourness for perceived balance, can be tuned with sugar. The saved coins can buy a cookie to go with it, so can sit in the coffee house longer, maybe meet someone new. Good job, Joe!
zwaps 6y ago
Well I don't own a Nespresso for that reason, so I agree. I drink too much coffee at home. I have several options, because I enjoy different kinds of coffee at different times. However, I see a lot of Nespresso machines in hotels and it somewhat makes sense, because what else could you put there? A decent Jura would be too expensive, a drip coffee maker not "good enough" (see my post). With an espresso machine, you'd also have to provide a grinder and a barista, because no one would want to spend time learning the setup up on a trip.
tannhaeuser 6y ago
That, and Nespresso capsules are way overpriced. I owned a Nespresso machine years ago (got it as a present) but couldn't justify the waste. Also, you must order original Nespresso capsules either at the Nespresso shop (of which there's maybe one in every major city at best), or order it online. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but online shopping is no progress for me since it just means I have to wait at home for an unreliable delivery service when I have plenty of shops in walking distance. So when third-party capsules became available, I immediately bought those instead (while they're cheap, they're not nearly as good and varied as original Nespresso capsules, though, IMO). However, one of those third-party capsules melted/stuck in the holder and I had to peel it off using a knife. That of course ruined the machine which now would leak pressure at the place where I used the knife, so I rejoiced and got rid of the machine :)
pmlnr 6y ago
> non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic Erm... all nespressos are aluminium.
- galoisgirl 6y ago
  Exactly. Most competitors have plastic, but when there's an article criticizing capsule coffee machines, it's always about Nespresso or with a picture of Nespresso pods.
tikkabhuna 6y ago
Nespresso do have a recycling program[0]. The recycling bags are free and can be dropped off, again for free. I suppose this might differ from country to country, but in the UK what they propose sounds pretty good? My housemate had a "proper" coffee machine and it was ok for one cup, but it temperamental. If I packed it too tight it wouldn't work. I couldn't reliably get the same result. It is also very hands on. Nespresso machines let me make 2 within a few minutes while I prepare breakfast. Start warming up machine, milk in frother, cup under nozzle, press start. [0] https://www.nespresso.com/uk/en/recycling-initiatives?name=nav&id=recycing-menu&creative=Why-Recycle&position=5-2 https://www.nespresso.com/uk/en/recycling-initiatives?name=n...
- bkor 6y ago
  > Nespresso do have a recycling program That they have a recycling program isn't that interesting. Nespresso creates a waste/problem, they should be ensuring the waste is minimized. Meaning, not just a recycling program (I doubt it's used much), but also do something if it appears customers are ignoring the recycling program. It feels too much like an easy excuse otherwise. In Netherlands the industry used to also point towards largely ignored recycling programs. For some cases (plastic bottles) the government actually did something with that, then ensured it was used. Basically the measure taken by many countries, small fee which you get back as you hand it in. Handing in is the same place that you get the bottle from. This continues to work with Internet (delivery only) supermarkets; next time they arrive you can hand in the bottles + plastic delivery bags.
  - tikkabhuna 6y ago
    That's a good point. In the UK we're very poor at recycling schemes and there's little motivation other than an individual wanting to help the environment. Maybe recycling bags could be easily weighed (as pods should have a similar weight?) and the persons account could be credited. Balancing the price/reward would be difficult, especially now as thirdparties could easily undercut with no care for the environment. I suppose I'm glad they have a recycling program and it helps me feel like I'm not negatively contributing, but I agree its a shame that the scheme isn't more popular considering how easy it is.
pico303 6y ago
We like them because you can make one or two cups without wasting a lot of coffee or water. And unlike other brands, Nespresso pods are made of aluminum, so they can be recycled. In the US, when you order the pods or pick them up in a Nespresso shop, you get a UPS mailer bag. When you use a pod, drop it in the bag. When the bag is full, seal the bag and drop it in a UPS mailbox to recycle the pods with Nespresso. That's something I can't do with the bags from the coffee beans I get in stores here. This article makes a big deal out of the fact that people don't recycle their pods. I'm not sure why that's Nespresso's fault. At least in the US, it's pretty damn painless.
- TonyTrapp 6y ago
  > We like them because you can make one or two cups without wasting a lot of coffee or water. So just like a regular espresso machine. You put espresso powder for one or two cups in the portafilter, put some water in the tank, done. Tank doesn't need to be filled completely, but you can just keep the water in there for the next espresso. No waste created, and you can even reuse the powder as fertilizer.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    > You put espresso powder for one or two cups in the portafilter It took me way too long to realise you mean coffee.
- GordonS 6y ago
  > When you use a pod, drop it in the bag. When the bag is full, seal the bag and drop it in a UPS mailbox to recycle the pods with Nespresso. Hmm, I'm curious about how many pods fill the bag; just wondering about the efficiency/waste of individuals mailing a small bag of aluminium potentially thousands of miles. I can't help but wonder if this system is little more than a platitude from Nespresso to make people feel like they aren't being wasteful. (I don't mean this as an attack on your choice to use a Nespresso machine - I'm just musing about the recycling system you described)
  - welearnednothng 6y ago
occamrazor 6y ago
I had a nespresso-compatible coffee machine that also accepted its own compostable pods. Moreover there are many machines (including nespresso machines for offices) which work with pads, i.e. pressed coffee wrapped in a paper filter.
raxxorrax 6y ago
Especially since there is instant coffee, which isn't as bad as its reputation. Probably high energy use, but at least no plastic.
- bschwindHN 6y ago
  > which isn't as bad as its reputation What's the best instant coffee out there? I've honestly never had a good one before, but I've only tried instant coffee in Japan.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    There are horrible ones and honestly I always buy the more expensive stuff. Nescafé Gold is pretty good. Don't know if the product is called the same outside of Germany/EU (the company is Swiss I believe). Sadly I have no better metric than expensive = good and it isn't really true for most products. There is cheap stuff that tastes really bad though. If you look closely, you can see a difference between more expensive and cheaper products, probably resulting from different production methods.
    - dsego 6y ago
      The jabocs and nescafe gold variants are what I prefer. The ones I buy are either larger granules or fine powder and light brown in color. These are better than the standard black instant coffee which is even more acidic, but it's still awful to drink without milk. I mainly make instant coffee when I can't be bothered with the french press. I have a feeling that these don't provide the same kick and that they hurt my teeth more because of the extra acidity.
  - sciurus 6y ago
    I use Cafe Bustelo's instant espresso at the ratio 1tbsp per six oz. The flavor is quite toasty and bitter, but the mouthfeel is great IMHO and it's exceedingly cheap. I'd love a proper espresso machine or even a moka pot but alas, small children.
  - ValentineC 6y ago
xwvvvvwx 6y ago
lavazza makes compostable nespresso pods fwiw.
zip1234 6y ago
Nespresso Vertuo, which has aluminum pods, has recycle drop off points for them at certain stores (Williams Sonoma in the US).
- softwaredoug 6y ago
  Both types of nespresso use aluminum pods
- esperent 6y ago
  Apparently less than 30% of nesspresso pods get recycled. And that says nothing about any other company's pods which probably have an even lower rate. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-16/most-nespresso-coffee-pods-not-being-recycled/11708910 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-16/most-nespresso-coffee...
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  This simply isn't good enough. Recycling doesn't work if it either isn't convenient enough or isn't part of the communal fabric - and I'd argue that the second isn't there in small-to-medium town America, not to mention that some municipalities have been caught not actually recycling their stuff supposedly destined for recycling. I'd say at a minimum, such a product should always come with postage paid recycling envelopes.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - devchix 6y ago
    Nespresso gives you postage-paid recycling bags which you fill and drop-off at a shipper. > This simply isn't good enough. Recycling doesn't work if it either isn't convenient enough I hate this attitude that one cannot be bothered to do a thing that is universally good, unless it's convenient, easy, and painless. I am an espresso "snob", whatever that word means. I have had a lot of espresso in many places, from excellent to very bad. There's a wide range of good-enough which Nespresso consistently hit, and thus I have forsaken my quest to grind my own beans and be my own barista. Nespresso is better than many high-end coffee shops as well as fine dining establishments, surprising to me.
hammock 6y ago
What do you need a sink for? The spent grounds can go in the trash
- OJFord 6y ago
  Or compost.
- michaelt 6y ago
  If you're using a coffee machine at home, you get a sink for free as you're probably putting it in your kitchen. If you're using it in an office, it's going to get used 50x as much, and you want a sink nearby to refill the water, empty the drip tray, and house the cleaning supplies for spills - all of which will happen 50x as often. And clean mugs will take a trip via the sink/dishwasher anyway.... Only time I've seen coffee machines away from the sink was in cheap shared office space, where different companies shared the same kitchen but didn't share coffee supplies. People shuffling along corridors with perilously full coffee machine drip trays was a regular sight :)
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    > And clean mugs will take a trip via the sink/dishwasher anyway.... I’m that monster that uses the same mug every day and just give it a quick rinse. Since I finish off the mug each day, it ends up dry (inhibiting growth), and I put nearly boiling weak acid in it daily. I only clean it good when there’s a long weekend or I’m back from holiday.
    - copperx 6y ago
      There's absolutely no shame in that (as long as nobody else uses your mug).
bradleyjg 6y ago
> The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create. It’s funny how people are so high and mighty about the small stuff and then let the absolutely enormous stuff pass completely. Are you this judgmental about living in a stand alone house vs an apartment in an apartment building? Taking plane trips for vacation? Or do those bog standard—celebrated even—parts of upper middle class life get a free pass while you sneer down your nose at people that don’t pull their own espresso shots to save a few hundred ounces of plastic a year “for the environment”?
- me_me_me 6y ago
  Because one is easy to eliminate, and other things are not (or occurs rarely). Making 2 coffees twice a day is something that adds up. Same as with bottled water, you can just buy filter flask/bottle/ etc. and use tap water. Or recycling vs not bothering. This whole argument of: 'Well you drive, or fly, or use coal power etc, so dont bother with little things' it is just cuddling of mind. Conditioning not to care as you can do nothing to change the outcome of anything. So CONSUME! Yes those are small things but its the mindset that will make you more conscious and less egocentric in a long run.
  - thebean11 6y ago
    Getting an apartment instead of a house IS easy in most places, it's just a bigger sacrifice which I think is the point. Privileged people unwilling to make sacrifices sneer at others who might actually might be doing a better job overall.
    - me_me_me 6y ago
      > Privileged people unwilling to make sacrifices sneer at others who might actually might be doing a better job overall. Yes, I agree though its a bit of a straw-man. The world would be a better place if we look inwards for things to improve, instead of outwards for confirmations how everyone else sucks. Also: >Getting an apartment instead of a house IS easy in most places If you have 2 kids and you work from home, then a 2 bedroom apt will hardly be 'easy', both logistically and mentally.
tinus_hn 6y ago
According to the article the pods are made out of aluminum and 100% recyclable with Nestlé offering to come pick them up at your home.
interestica 6y ago
> Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic. I'm not sure if you're just using "Nespresso" as shorthand for "pod-based coffee machine" but the unique thing about the Nespresso system is its use of aluminum (recyclable) pods. Recycling rates may not be high enough, but that's a marketing/UX problem that can be addressed.
m3kw9 6y ago
You cannot really do espresso in 5 minutes practically at home. Heat up the machine, fill water, grind beans all takes time. And you need to do clean up after. It takes 10 minutes on avg
- cyberbanjo 6y ago
  I know it's not the same but AeroPress or Moka Pot at home- fast, tasty, strong. Only it's difficult to serve guest because how little the container is.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  If you dump enoigh money, the machine does most of it for you, you need to click a button" take a piss and come back.
leonroy 6y ago
You are right, Nespresso and especially Krups pods are ridiculously wasteful. To put something compostable in a vessel which will take 100s of years to biodegrade feels perverse. That said if people started to make coffee in espresso machines that would if anything be even more wasteful. One, most espresso machines sol are the cheap machines. And they are rickety, poorly made, unrepairable and low longevity. You see lots of them at the local household waste center piled up next to other consumer electronics junk. I could see a proliferation of them being a bigger environmental nuisance than pods. Two, a proper espresso machine takes a fair bit of time to warm up and I wouldn't drink the first shot out of the machine, so they need to be run through a few times, wasting electricity and coffee. I can see the appeal of Nespresso. I don't personally want one, but their convenience and ingenuity is undeniable. If anything Nestle should double down on ensuring the pods are either compostable or that recycling rates improve markedly.
webignition 6y ago
Whilst the classic Nespresso machines have potential recycling issues, the vertuo line of machines/pods are more favourable. I was recently given a second-hand Nespresso vertuo machine and I'm very happy with the re-use options. There are stainless steel refillable pods as well as single-use film lids to apply to emptied pods. I'm giving the film lids a go first as the stainless steel pods are quite pricey (around £20 each). I'm able to re-use the pods that came with the machine, refilling with the large supply of ground coffee that I receive as gifts and would otherwise use in a cafetiere. My stash of bagged pre-ground coffee produces excellent results in the vertuo machine with a good crema on top as good as most coffee shops that I've been to. With some freshly-ground good quality coffee, a re-usable vertuo pod or two and a vertuo machine you can make barista-quality coffee with zero non-degradable waste.
kwhitefoot 6y ago
Here, in Norway, the Nespresso and similar pods are aluminium so you just drop them in the metal recycling bin along with other cans and glass. No plastic involved.
moltar 6y ago
In Switzerland they have a separate recycling receptacle for pod waste.
mcswell 6y ago
Here (the US), Nespresso ships their pods with pre-paid plastic bags for recycling. We fill the bags with our used pods, and every once in awhile drop them off at UPS. Problem solved.
blue_devil 6y ago
Save the grounds in a bag and use for your (home) plants, they love it.
rstuart4133 6y ago
> There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference). I suspect it's the personal preference of a lot of people. Pods typically have 5g of coffee. A typical portafilter basket holds 12..21 grams. It's not a small difference.

LoveMortuus 6y ago

I am of the believe that if you don't drink the bad coffee you can't appreciate the good one. For me personally I like any type of coffee, not picky at all. I do mostly drink Turkish because that's what I can make at home. But when here I would just mix the different blends together, not with the purpose of making something special with just too have more coffee

deleted 6y ago

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lvturner 6y ago

I'm exactly the same. In my humble opinion McDonald's coffee offers the best price to cost ratio of any takeaway coffee (at least that I've found) It's far from the best coffee I've ever tasted, but I've yet to have a bad one anywhere.

lvturner 6y ago
*price to flavour ratio (seems I can't edit this comment now)

amelius 6y ago

> I think I am one of the few people who enjoys all sorts of coffee. Have you tried Wiener Melange? (Not necessarily recommended) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Melange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Melange

zwaps 6y ago
I have even had Einspaenner. Wth...

luxurytent 6y ago

Good bad coffee is anything from a breakfast diner. I love it so!

wjnc 6y ago

I'm in your boat. The tastes good and bad coffees can bring are so diverse. Every few years I even feel a sudden urge to drink a particular instant coffee (Nescafé Gold). The bitters, acids that rise to my nose, a snarky taste with a little bit of burned butter odor. Just great. It reminds me of going on holidays, of rebuilding houses when all you have is hot water and of holiday jobs as a teen. Coffee is a most sentimental drink for me.

matwood 6y ago

Agreed. I love a good espresso, but enjoy most coffee. My daily home coffee is pour over with freshly ground beans. Can't really beat the flavor/price. But, I also like Starbucks and McDs coffee. If anything, they are both very consistent so you get the same cup when traveling.

jclos 6y ago

I am with you on that. I grew up on the good old dripper because it was the typical coffee one would drink in France, and moved on to many types of coffee, espresso, nespresso, aeropress, french press, mokka, cold brew stuff, etc. While I don't like their sweet ones, I even like the basic Starbucks americano, and their instant coffee (Via) is on par with a low to medium quality espresso in my opinion, which isn't bad for an instant coffee at all. I just like coffee.

nkrisc 6y ago

Some people get to focused on optimizing everything (must only drink the "best" coffee) and forget that thrre if some value in variety of quality as well. I enjoy pizza, usually I want the heat pizza I can find. But everyone I've in a while I enjoy a pizza from Domino's as well. Yeah the quality is different, but it's not bad in the sense that it's literally inedible. It's the same reason I enjoy good burgers but also crave McDonald's every so often too. I've bought really good, hard to get beer that was $40 for a 22oz bottle, but I also like a Budweiser every so often too. Having only the best of everything all the time is not only boring, it's expensive too!

blaser-waffle 6y ago
It's a Veblen Good / conspicuous consumption thing, similar to how blindfolded wine experts can't tell the differences between $40 and $100 bottles of wine. "Wine snobbery" for STEM nerds is craft beer and coffee snobbery.

joncrane 6y ago

I'm with you. I love a carefully crafted single-origin pourover. But I also have a weak spot for 7-11 coffee. Appreciation of the two is not mutually exclusive.

jjice 6y ago

Coffee, like many other things, has a lot of different connections to it than just its taste, and that's one of the best parts about it. When I visit home and I can get a cup of Tim Hortons, just walking in give me memories of high school and all the time I've spent inside one of them. Even the taste of 7/11 coffee brings back some memories of my time in Maine when I lived down the road from one. I read some where once that, despite the quality of a cup of coffee, the thing that will make it the most memorable is the people you're with.