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British Airways announces immediate retirement of 747 fleet
- afterburner 6y ago"the airline believes that the 747s are sustainable" I guess they meant "aren't".
- ksd482 6y agoI guessed so too.
- vmception 6y agotoo sustainable
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- cockpitherald 6y agoThat must be a typo I guess.
- krallja 6y agoIt certainly wasn’t the only typo in the article.
- txcwpalpha 6y agoThe 747s are certainly long in the tooth and A350s, 777s, 787s are better in almost every way, but it's still sad to see the 747s go. They're iconic and always so much fun (to me) to see taking off/landing. Wouldn't be surprised if this means the A380 being retired isn't far behind, too. It may have some life left in it because LHR really needs those big planes due to limited landing slots, but if travel doesn't pick up soon and they can't fill the A380s... yikes.
- bathtub365 6y agoI always liked seeing the staircase when boarding a 747. It really makes it feel like you're flying through the air in a building.
- Stratoscope 6y agoWhen I was a freshman at Caltech in 1969, a few of us took some fake psilocybin one evening and were looking for something to do. We found out that there was a brand new 747 parked at LAX, one of the first off the line. It wasn't in passenger service yet, but it was open for anyone to take a self guided tour! So we ran down there and wandered around the 747, visited the cockpit and everywhere and went up and down the staircase a few times. I'd been on airplanes before, but never one with a spiral staircase. It was awesome!
- dylan604 6y agoI've seen people refer to "friends" that took psilocybin, but never someone saying they took fake psilocybin. Were you being facetious or was it some sort of synthetic?
- Stratoscope 6y agoNot facetious, it was some sort of synthetic. We never knew what it really was. It wasn't real psilocybin, but it was something.
- User23 6y agoSounds like something from Shulgin's book[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PiHKAL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PiHKAL
- dylan604 6y agoI bought new copies of PiHKAL and TiHKAL when Shulgin passed away a couple years ago. Not reading for the faint of heart, but damn those 2 were dedicated to their science. Just knowing their lab was the shed in the back yard makes it a little more on the "whaaaaa?" side of things.
- chrisseaton 6y agoI always wanted to fly upstairs in a 747, but they never flew on my routes. I think also surprisingly it’s usually just normal business class up there, not first?
- maccard 6y agoMy experience if being up there was always business. They didn't operate first on those routes.
- NovemberWhiskey 6y agoFirst on BA, when operated, has been in the nose of 747 for the longest time; certainly for the past twenty years.
- maccard 6y agoThanks, I wasn't aware of that. The routes I fly just don't have a first class, so I wasn't aware.
- myrandomcomment 6y agoI was on a BA London to SFO flight March 12th, upper deck. It was all business. First was in front downstairs.
- glassneedles 6y agoI flew upstairs in a BA 747 to Tokyo. Was business class. It was a bit better than my return flight downstairs in business class as there were only 20 seats and 2 crew between us so better service.
- chrisseaton 6y agoYeah that’s what I always thought - surely quieter, more private, more staff, so why only business.
- maccard 6y agoI'm a little nostalgic for this - I flew quite a few trips in the upper deck of a 747 over the last few years, almost all of them on the back of a long stretch of work and a "celebratory" night before travelling. It's a strange feeling but I'm almost sad to see them go. On the other hand, more modern plans are so much more efficient. An A350 uses literally half the fuel of an A380, (which itself uses less than a 747).With lower capacity hopefully comes lower demand for air travel - this can only be a good thing.
- hpkuarg 6y agoAs a young kid I always dreamed of flying in the upper deck of the queen. I fulfilled it a few years ago, in one of the last Delta flights on the 747. I, too, share your feelings.
- KiranRao0 6y agoMy dad tells me stories about how, as a kid, I was allowed to visit the cockpit of a 747 mid flight. Mind you, this was pre-911. I too am sad to see this bird dissapear.
- anonAndOn 6y agoI had the same experience many, many years ago. And my dad is still envious to this day.
- cosmie 6y agoI used to fly a lot as an unaccompanied minor[1]. It's way different now in the post-911 aviation world, but on several of those flights the flight attendants keeping tabs on me would take me up to the cockpit at some point during the flight to say hello to the pilots and get a wing pin[2]. And on one occasion I got to spend the majority of the flight in a cockpit jumpseat. Man, those were fun times. One trip I got pawned onto the maintenance crew afterwards due to the person picking me up being late, and got to drive the vehicle thing that pushes back planes from the gate. As a kid, I think I enjoyed that experience (and the feeling of power over an airplane) more than the jumpseat experience. [1] https://thepointsguy.com/news/airline-unaccompanied-minor-policies-and-fees-in-the-united-states/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/airline-unaccompanied-minor-po... [2] https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-children/1437386-really-cool-perk-kids-southwest-airlines.html https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-children/1437386-real...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jonahhorowitz 6y agoI'm sad to see the Queen of the skies go. I do hope that I'll catch a ride on a 747-8 before those get retired too.
- toomuchtodo 6y agohttps://thepointsguy.com/news/these-are-the-last-boeing-747s-you-can-fly-in-the-world/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/these-are-the-last-boeing-747s...
- markplindsay 6y agoRemaining airlines with 747s in passenger service: - Air China - Air India - Asiana - China Airlines - Korean - Lufthansa - Rossiya - Thai
- GrifMD 6y agoLufthansa, Air China, and Korean Air all have newer 747-8i's too, for what that's worth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-8#Operators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-8#Operators
- samvaran 6y agoBasic question - where will all these 747s actually physically go to be retired? Will there be a landfill somewhere with a huge amount of airplane parts? Will they be left to rust in some hangar in the middle of nowhere?
- jonahhorowitz 6y agoMost of them end up in dry desert areas in the southwest United States: https://www.airplaneboneyards.com/airplane-boneyards-list-and-map.htm https://www.airplaneboneyards.com/airplane-boneyards-list-an...
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoHuh—are these (presumably huge) areas guarded? Am I stupid for wondering what's to stop a group from making off with a plane?
- quickthrowman 6y agoWell, they don’t leave the keys in the ignition ;)
- sjwright 6y agoOr fuel in the tank. And it’s probably being blocked in by other planes. Those desert boneyards don’t park planes with random access in mind.
- quickthrowman 6y agoLooks like they leave fuel in the tank if it’s for short term storage, but they drain various fluids if it’s longer term storage. Probably depends on the circumstances.
- sjwright 6y ago
- yingw787 6y agoI wonder if there will be a Cunard-like airline that flies older planes because people want to experience them. I believe Cunard (part of Carnival) operates the Queen Mary 2, the last running ocean liner on Earth. It does Southampton to New York via traditional Atlantic crossing, just like the Titanic (almost) did. Not sure if it makes money, but (pre-pandemic) it was likely subsidized by other cruise ships or by QM2 cruising herself. It'd be cool to have a flight from Heathrow to JFK (?) on one 747 for people who want to experience the same plane. I think an airline enthusiast might go several times a year, and there's a goodly number of airline enthusiasts. I think a flying boat tour of the Pacific islands would be a wicked honeymoon!
- VectorLock 6y agoIf this existed for the Concorde, I'd get on it.
- noah_buddy 6y agoIt would be expensive. A cross Atlantic trip in the early 2000s was around $12000 round trip[0]. [0] https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/my-ride-on-the-concorde-6783087/ https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/my-ride-on-the-conc...
- VectorLock 6y agoSadly, if I had it in the early 2000s I would have done it, but now that I have it I can't.
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoTerrible for the environment too.
- easytiger 6y agoYou can easily pay $10000+ for first class as it stands on the same route today
- 6y ago
- rvz 6y agoThis is unfortunate news for BA and its fleet and is reminiscent to the super-sonic concorde days (Which I still miss). I'm a huge fan of Boom Supersonic to take its place. Recently in the UK we lost two airliners to this pandemic, Thomas Cook Airlines and Flybe both fell into the adminstrators. I guess this looks like magnificent news to flight-shamers and climate-change activists.
- luxurytent 6y agoTo be clear, Thomas Cook collapsed well before covid. The end[1] occurred on September 23 2019. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cook_Group#2019:_Final_year_and_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cook_Group#2019:_Final_...
- ca_parody 6y agoHas the 747 transported to most human-distance (people * (km|miles)) of any other make&model transportation machine? I would imagine so...
- pirocks 6y agoI would guess it's actually the 737 or a320. Long haul flights are significantly less common.
- supernova87a 6y agoIt's simple -- 2 engine widebodies are more efficient than the 747, and carry less risk of being less than full. And airlines seem to have gotten tired of maintaining 4 engines at a go, for some reason.
- tamcap 6y ago4 engines = 2x the maintenance cost, even if you ignore the fuel. And 2x the overhaul cost.
- DrJokepu 6y agoI will miss the BA Club World business class on the upper deck. It was one of the more pleasant and relaxing ways of transatlantic travel.
- iso1631 6y agoMy wife flew out upstairs from Heathrow to Washington to join me for a short break (I'd been working there for a week) in 2014, which was lovely. We returned from Baltimore on a 767, immediate response "It's a bit shabby". which even compared with a 747 was entirely accurate. I still prefer flying out of Baltimore though, much nicer airport, and I seem to get upgraded (either using miles or operational) every time. They've got 787s on the route now - was supposed to fly there this year just as the ban was brought in.
- ChuckMcM 6y agoAwesome time to buy a new private jet :-) My understanding is that many (most?) airlines use a leasing company to "hold" their physical inventory. If this is the case is this really just notice that they are going to break all their leases? I also wonder, given that the 747 has been EOL'd by Boeing as well, how much one can recover by 'parting out' these 28 planes. Will they live on like the DC-3 did as a 'third party' airline plane or are they just too big to be useful in that way? Could make for a heck of a fire fighting fleet I suppose.
- olivermarks 6y agoThey are widely used as cargo planes which is what they were originally designed for.
- ChuckMcM 6y agoTrue, so the need for spare parts for the cargo fleet will continue for a while. But Boeing won't be making them : https://www.businessinsider.com/50th-anniversary-boeing-747-queen-of-the-skies-passenger-flight-2020-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/50th-anniversary-boeing-747-...
- bretpiatt 6y agoYou don't need to wonder, plenty of active used plane dealers, just like used car dealers... You can have your own 747 for $12.5M, flight hour operating costs not so friendly. https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/81028201/1991-boeing-747-400 https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/810282... Alternatively, this one will run you $275M+ https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/23001/qatari-royal-flight-747-8i-jumbo-jet-is-up-for-sale-and-yes-there-are-interior-pictures https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/23001/qatari-royal-fli...
- ChuckMcM 6y agoWow, tempting :-) I had no idea you could pick one up for under $20M.
- aaronbrethorst 6y agoToo bad. I’ve really enjoyed watching BA’s daily LHR to SEA flight come in overhead around 5 or 6pm on weekdays. Sea-Tac doesn’t get too many 747s despite its proximity to Boeing.
- gms 6y agoUnfortunately actually being in a BA 747 is nowhere near as enjoyable. I'm glad for this.
- discordance 6y agoQantas has also retired their 747s. They are going to be stored in some desert area with low humidity, and eventually sold for parts. This surprises me. Surely they could be sold or used at cargo planes?
- missedthecue 6y agoHow are they going to load cargo? Their nose doesnt tilt up like purpose built cargo planes
- karthikb 6y agoSide door: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-400#747-400_Boeing_Converted_Freighter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-400#747-400_Boeing_...
- massysett 6y agoI don't understand the nostalgia for these planes. I see a big plane and I think "cattle car." There's nothing nice about sitting in the middle section of a huge wide-body plane, far from the luggage bin, far from the window, and with the prospect of climbing over several people or waking them up so you can go to the bathroom. It takes a long time to board and deplane them. Moreover, as a passenger I want point-to-point air service at a convenient time. This is possible with smaller airplanes. Big plane requires funneling passengers to some big gateway airport so they can fill the gigantic plane. That requires spending time in airports. Not interested. If the nostalgia is that there's something elite about a big plane: Gordon Gekko didn't fly around in a 747. There's a reason these planes are obsolete. Planes like the 737 have democratized air travel and made it affordable for everyone. That's a much bigger achievement than the 747 will ever be. And I'll take the convenient frequent long-distance service that narrow-body planes offer (US mainland to Hawaii on a 737? Amazing!) over a 747 any day. A curving staircase on an airplane just doesn't scream "cool" to me.
- pjdemers 6y agoSome airlines fitted the upstairs as a special business class (British, United, the old Northwest). The cabin up there had almost a private jet feel.
- dmix 6y agoAre manufacturers still building giant planes these days? I don't follow the industry. I agree with the middle seat part, after being stuck on an overseas Air India flight with babies on both sides. I just assumed it was bigger because they want to pack more in for long flights. Smaller plane = better. At least for less close contact, which will be valued more with recent events.
- bfrog 6y agoIt's a bit sad but not unexpected. I rode on two 747 flight in my life, both pretty memorable. Maybe the mourning for these planes is less about the planes but the kinds of epic flights most people would hop on them for. I rode one from LA to Auckland and back, as well as Chicago to London. Both very memorable trips for me. I'd always choose to ride one when I could. There was a sense of, maybe wrongly, safety in the jumbo having been around for so long, carried so many people safely. Yes they crashed, but most often from what I recall at no fault of the plane.
- dwd 6y agoI flew on one of the early 747SP Sydney to Los Angeles flights in April 1984 which was only feasible because of this amazing aircraft. The London to Hong Kong leg of that trip with a stop-over at Dubai and the amazing run into Kai Tak airport was probably my most memorable flight.
- glaucon 6y agoThe link to airlinegeeks.com is seting off a number of av warnings for me.
- grogenaut 6y agoIronically the 2 times I have flown either of the monster planes (747 or a380) were from Salt Lake City to Jackson Hole, which is a ~25 minute flight. And basically the shortest flight I've ever taken commercially, well that or Cin->Louisville.
- KMag 6y agoWhen you fly from SLC to JAC, you might have a skiing problem. (Queue the "it's not a problem when you're awesome at it".)
- grogenaut 6y agoI definitely have a skiing problem, it's the worst. It's not a problem when your good at a thing that's fun that doesnt tear your acl like a piece of string like snowboarding. But coming from STL the good flights was fly to SLC and then hop in with Delta. Seemed like a lot of places aggregated at a hub and took one giant plane in a day.
- frandroid 6y agoAnd here I thought these would be the ideal planes with enough space for proper physical distancing in pandemic times...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- exabrial 6y agoRiding on a British airways 747 was one of the coolest experiences I ever had. The entire cabin had first class level comfort. This will surely be missed.
- rado 6y agoFirst sighting in “Die Hard 2” http://www.impdb.org/images/3/32/2016-01-03_03h54_43.jpg http://www.impdb.org/images/3/32/2016-01-03_03h54_43.jpg Then flew it a few times. It’s a legend.
- ggm 6y agoThe Boeing of today might not be able to do what the Boeing of yesteryear did, getting the 747 series to a 50+ year life. I say this because of the MAX, and some other behaviours which stem from Boeing moving from an engineering focussed company to a giant shit-show of mergers, stock games, and west-east mindshare collapse (judged from the partisan books & articles I read) I fly Boeing and Airbus mainly whenever I travel, which used to be 10+ times per year long-haul worldwide. Never felt unsafe and that includes aborted takeoffs, engine fails on the ramp, and airpack breakdowns in-flight necessitating fuel-dump and go-back. These machines work. The FCC mandated engineering around flight safety in operations work. But.. I trust the 74x and the 380/350 more than I trust the 787 and the MAX because of some spectacularly bad public engineering exposure. The battery fire story, and the MAX-no-training-needed story are really not good for Boeing. The whole "if it isn't boeing I am not going" thing is long long past. on the jumbo, It wasn't the first 'passenger plane with a bump' -there was a couple of precursors in the pre-jet era, including one designed to carry a car in the body and pax up top. And, it wasn't the first with stairs by a long chalk, the flying boats had them as did some of the jet era precursors. But, it was by far and away the bestest, most successful 4 engine plane. The life extension, (and length extensions!) over the series was amazing. As was the fuel economy and fitout. I think the decision by Lufthansa to re-tool on the 8 series was probably a huge mistake, but then so was QANTAS decision not to take the 777. Airbus did good work with the 380. I think it is a fantastic ride as a passenger, in all classes, its quiet, and lovely and when full, good economic sense. But its dying from a change in the model. The 747 is going to have a long life in cargo. I think even without a lift-nose this workhorse has a lot to go yet. (not a pilot: 20+ year international business traveller perspective)
- bkor 6y ago> But.. I trust the 74x and the 380/350 more than I trust the 787 and the MAX because of some spectacularly bad public engineering exposure. I've followed the 737 MAX debacle quite a bit. I've also seen a video from someone who used to analyse (private) airplane crashes. He made it really clear that any crash is the result of a multiple of reasons. Meaning, there's no one root cause, there are multiple causes coming together. This unlike business where it's almost always assumed that there's a "root cause" (singular). One worry of mine is that not enough is done to allow the FAA to properly certify the 737 MAX. There's been (proposed?) changes, but they feel more like window dressing. Other aviation authorities used to follow the FAA, due to the 737 MAX you see that this trust has gone. You've highlighted how the change in culture in Boeing is another cause of this. But aside from that, if this could happen at Boeing, it could (theoretically) just as well happen with Airbus. This again due to a multitude of reasons, how FAA is setup, Boeing changed, competition from Airbus, advantage of reusing an existing type. A lot of reasons could be applicable again, or apply to Airbus. Aside from really checking the 737 MAX plus other aviation authorities not really trusting the FAA I don't see enough comprehensive changes. Regarding the 747 and retiring of these planes: it seems every new airplane gives people less space to walk around, less space for luggage, less space in chairs (chair width is important as well!), etc.
- jesterson 6y agoUnfortunately the whole covid situation didn't allow me to have a first long-planned flight on 747 right in April. I booked Qantas 747 just to feel the experience... Now is seems like there will be no 747 passenger flights anymore and even fate of A380 is under huge question
- iso1631 6y agoFlown 39 times on a BA 747 to 3 continents in all 4 classes. One flight in Feb 2014 I remember from Mumbai had water pouring from the ceiling on me on takeoff. the planes felt old then. Most recent flight was down to Nairobi and back in 2018, they've been really showing their age for a long time, especially compared with the A350 and 787s I've been flying more recently on Qatar. But even the objectively superior business class on QR's new planes can't compare with climbing the stairs to the top deck, sitting in 64A [0] with the table and bins next to you for your flight. I first did this in September 2012, on a flight from Moscow to Heathrow. While we were coming in over the North sea I gave the at-seat phone a go -- it still worked (I think they were removed from service a while ago), certainly an experience at the time to be able to talk to someone from mid-air. My wife and I had a weekend to Seatle in 2014, and bagged seat 1A and 1K at the very nose[1]. I think the 747 is the only plane you can get where you fly in front of the pilot (the A380 cockpit is at the front), and a unique experience. I wasn't really flying when Concorde was around, and I've always regretted not flying it, but I'm glad I managed to experience both the upper deck and the nosecone on a 747. (Oh yes, BA's 747 was one of the few planes I've flown on with a window in the toilet) [0] https://21stcenturyjourneys.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/dsc00187.jpg https://21stcenturyjourneys.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/dsc0... [1] https://scottmcgee.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/11-ba747-large.jpg https://scottmcgee.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/11-ba747-larg...
- jgrahamc 6y agoI've had water pour on my on a BA 747. Was quite a few years ago but it's caused by condensation which then finds a way out when the plane takes off and tilts upwards.
- ubitaco 6y agoThis happened to me on an emirates A380, but on landing. The timing was comical because immediately after touching down (and being rained on) the entertainment screen prompts you to rate your flight.
- benhurmarcel 6y agoYes it's condensation and happens on every airliner, but the water is normally contained by the thermal insulation and runs behinds the panels down to the bilge area (at the bottom of the fuselage barrel). Some issues in the insulation condition or installation can result in water dropping in the cabin.
- philjohn 6y agoI last travelled on a BA 747 back in February - first time on the top deck in Club World and despite being an old aircraft, the top deck is a pretty special experience; it feels like a private jet, very few seats, excellent service. Top deck on an A380, whilst a far more comfortable experience with the lower noise and better air, doesn't quite compare.
- josefrichter 6y agoIt's a good sign, in a way, that airlines have to quickly retire older inefficient airplanes, and many could come out of this leaner and ultimately stronger. Managed to get one transatlantic Lufthansa 748 flight - horrible experience, seats incredibly cramped. And one transatlantic Air France 388 - got middle seat, but with wall in front = lot of legroom, + alcohol for free = overall pleasant flight :-)
- Ambroos 6y agoOne of my playlists is called "64K", after the seat I had on my first BA 747 flight two years ago, AUS>LHR, my second ever trip in Business Class. I prepared the music in advance to download it, all nice relaxing tracks (Aimee Mann / Feist / Beth Gibbons / Norah Jones). I was super excited for the flight, and really happy that 64K was available, it was supposedly one of the best business class seats on the plane. Upper deck, window seat, last one on the right. No need to step over anyone, near-perfect privacy, a massive amount of storage space, and first in line to get off the plane. I put on my playlist in shuffle after dinner, and drifted away into a very nice, long, uninterrupted sleep. When I woke up my breakfast was ready and waiting for me on the big surfaces below the windows. BA Club World has it's issues, but that flight was so memorably that I renamed my playlist from "Night Tunes" to "64K" to remember it.
- jsolson 6y agoBeth Gibbons is not a name I usually see called out as a solo artist -- to be honest, until today I didn't know she had done any solo work, despite Portishead's Dummy being in my most played albums every year since software started keeping track of that kind of thing for me. Thanks for causing me to Google that. Now I've got something "new" to listen to while I make breakfast.
- Ambroos 6y agoThe album "Out Of Season" she did with Rustin Man is really good, all of her tracks on my 64K playlist are from that one.
- yardie 6y agoSome of the things I’ll miss about the 747: The speed. They fly at 580mph cruising. The others are around 550mph. I confirmed this in the IFE. Cabin pressure. It was higher than the 777 and A380. It just felt better and less headache inducing. Upper deck. I’m going to miss club world. We travel as a family and it felt so intimate being able to sit together and not packed in like tuna.
- josefrichter 6y agospeed? seriously, you as a passenger have no chance to anyhow notice it or benefit from it. the difference is so negligible, that it basically never has any effect.
- ubermonkey 6y agoI've flown a lot domestically in my life, but because I live in the middle of the US (Houston), I've almost NEVER been on a super large plane like a 747. I'm kind of sad about that. In the last few years I've been on a few big Airbus planes going to the mideast or the UK; they're nice. But they're not the icons that the 747 was.
- switch007 6y agoThis news story has interesting timing. It’s also got a long segment on the TV news right now It comes right after the leader of the opposition highlighted during PMQs that BA have forced new, worse contracts on 30,000 staff
- tristor 6y agoI've flown internationally a LOT. My only time ever being on a 747 was on BA, and it was really amazing being on a double-decker with the business lounge area. The 747 is truly a remarkable plane, and one of the most comfortable flights transatlantic flights I've ever been on. I'm sad to see it go. This follows on the heels of Delta here in the US retiring the Mad Dogs (MD88 & MD90) as well as their 777 fleet. Lots of shake-ups in the airline industry, I'm not sure that all of them are good.
- quantified 6y agoThe 1959 Coupe DeVille of the air.
- ivan1783 6y agoI was lucky enough to fly business on the top deck of a 747. I remember it felt like driving a building down the runway compared to the A380, regardless the 747 will always have a special place in my heart <3