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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

• wsc981 6y ago
  Not completely related I guess, but ... I recently bought an LG phone for mobile dev (LG V30). I need to enable developer mode to properly use this device for development. I am able to set the device in developer mode, but there is no way to select transfer protocol over USD with connected computer. I worry this device might be hacked and this device is modified to prevent people from removing any hacks. I am also not able to do a hardware reset using the instructions I can find on internet. On the other hand, this could just be some weird Android bug. But I think it's all quite suspicious. By the way, part of the OS (e.g. the first menu shown after doing a soft reset) are not in English, only in Korean (I think). Also a bit weird imo. Either way, these weird experiences with this device made me a lot more worried about security.
• president 6y ago
  Glad to see India understanding the threat to national security posed by these apps. I would like to see the US do the same.
  • markovbot 6y ago
    I would find it very problematic if the US government attempted to interfere with it's citizens downloading whatever software they want. I absolutely do not trust the US government to be the arbitrator of what app's are "safe".
    • ppeetteerr 6y ago
      This is a common sentiment: distrust in the US government. Given that 30% of income goes to the feds, might be time to change the government to be more trust worthy. Good thing elections are coming up.
      • markovbot 6y ago
        This is a pretty common response: just vote for the other guy. Too bad no one trustworthy is running for the executive office.
        • arcticbull 6y ago
          So it's time to change the system. Ranked choice voting and a third party could make a world of difference. Continuing to give all your money to an entity you don't trust isn't a working plan. It leads to, for instance, the COVID response. Defeatism around something so critically important to the success of a country isn't a plan.
          • markovbot 6y ago
            I was not trying to suggest defeatism, just sick of hearing voting in the current system as a reasonable response to anything. Not saying don't vote, just saying stop suggesting it's the way to fix specific problems. Voting probably won't fix most problems. Absolutely, one of the big systemic changes we need to effect is a switch to ranked choice voting. There are several other significant changes to the US's voting system that would also be needed. Things like a complete elimination of voting machines, and honestly a full switch to vote-by-mail would probably help. Of course, the voting system in this country isn't even the biggest problem, some how. Things need to change before next election, not in a few election cycles.
        • Avamander 6y ago
          As long as there isn't a better system, voting for the lesser evil seems like the least one could do. You can continue the fight for a better system when you don't have an actively racist president for example.
          • markovbot 6y ago
            I'm not proposing not voting. I'm just sick of hearing it offered as if it's somehow a solution to the increasingly obvious fact that the US government is fundamentally incapable of doing the basic things expected of it by it's citizens, like being trusted to not abuse it's power when doing things like gating access to potentially dangerous software. Obviously it would be really REALLY nice if there was a trustworthy entity who could do that, but it's pretty absurd to suggest that if we simply vote for the other guy suddenly the US government will be that entity.
    • systemvoltage 6y ago
      What are your thoughts about China banning anything but local apps/services for domestic use but the rest of the world is OK with allowing Chinese apps/services to compete with the domestic apps/services? I think there is some level of asymmetry here, not sure how best to resolve it without giving up the citizen's freedoms as you expressed. This asymmetry is problematic because western democracies are barred to profit from Chinese market (1.3 billion people) and the Chinese companies which are in bed with the CCP would benefit domestically + internationally. That's unfair I think. One compromise would be to promote democracies around the world and incentivize apps/services developed, operated and controlled in democratic environments.
      • neilpanchal 6y ago
        Just like you'd buy coffee with Fair Trade [1] mark, one way to incentivize the public would be through marketing - "Made in Democracy" mark on a laptop, a lathe-machine, a watch or what have you. We should have a non-profit org that promotes manufacturing in democracies. From shirts to iOS apps, it would be interesting to experiment with a "Made in Democracy" or "Developed in Democracy" mark. I ran this idea through a manufacturing consultant in SF and they were very receptive of it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade
        • ativzzz 6y ago
          You mean like the CE logo that marks products safe in Europe? Chinese companies are practically faking it: https://www.ybw.com/vhf-marine-radio-guide/warning-dont-get-confused-between-the-ce-mark-and-the-china-export-mark-4607 https://www.ybw.com/vhf-marine-radio-guide/warning-dont-get-...
          • neilpanchal 6y ago
            That's absolutely reprehensible and cunning. In addition to counterfeiting and deception, another problem is in the definition of what constitutes, for example, a "Made in Switzerland" product. According to Swiss law, 60% of the manufacturing BOM cost needs to be domestically sourced [1]. Therein lies the problem of enforcement as well as impossibilities due to the entangled supply-chain with China as well as accountability and prevention of abuse. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made
    • Avamander 6y ago
      Well, the US goverment has interfered with it's citizens downloading whatever software they want, and is currently doing so via embargoes. I think banning spyware is less problematic than the rest of the current and past interference and might actually have some positive effects.
    • kahlonel 6y ago
      Problematic for whom? The average citizen doesn't realize the threats and has no idea of safe/unsafe, so there must be someone to decide for them. People who are aware of threats, and are willing to accept the risks can surely find their way around the bans.
    • nostromo 6y ago
      The US however could enact privacy laws, which could force TikTok into compliance.
    • kumarvvr 6y ago
      The average citizen is dumb enough to not be able to discern spyware from innocent apps. It is the duty of the government to protect its citizens from foreign influence and banning apps is a legitimate exercise of the govts power in fulfilling that duty.
    • ralmidani 6y ago
      While I share your skepticism toward the US government, phone apps are different from books and even from websites; I don’t trust apps made by a company subject to CCP influence and/or control, nor do I think the usual arguments against censorship apply.
    • d0100 6y ago
      I would to. However, I wouldn't oppose there being a "cyber martial law" if there was some sort of "cyber declaration of war" that would enable the US government to declare software/hardware products from another country to not be used in native soil (while in "cyber war"). The US doesn't have to allow a malicious player to map their whole infrastructure and technology usage habits. Democracy is very hard, why would the US have to allow other countries to be able to have such a strong profile and possible blackmail on its citizens?
    • pvelagal 6y ago
      https://www.hawley.senate.gov/senators-hawley-scott-introduce-legislation-ban-tiktok-government-devices https://www.hawley.senate.gov/senators-hawley-scott-introduc...
  • Barrin92 6y ago
    banning the usage of WeChat for public officials or national defense companies and so on would make some sense, I fail to see however how TikTok is a security threat. It's just a response to the clash over the border and nothing else, and not really a particularly effective one at that.
    • riffic 6y ago
      Have you seen any of the recently posted analyses of the TikTok binaries? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=false&query=tiktok&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=fal...
      • Barrin92 6y ago
        Yes, some of them are somewhat hyperbolic like the Apple keyboard thing which was apparently related to some sort of anti-spam feature, but in general that makes TikTok a privacy mess, which is undoubtly true but not really grounds for a national ban on the basis of security. By that logic you'd have to throw half the app store out.
        • Avamander 6y ago
          > By that logic you'd have to throw half the app store out. You almost got it. We do indeed need to make it harder to spy on people. Not doing anything is not the better option right now.
        • sbmthakur 6y ago
          The ban makes perfect sense when you add the current India-China conflict and PRC's National Intelligence Law into the mix. https://www.lawfareblog.com/beijings-new-national-intelligence-law-defense-offense https://www.lawfareblog.com/beijings-new-national-intelligen...
        • shripadk 6y ago
          > not really grounds for a national ban on the basis of security All Chinese companies are completely at the mercy of CCP. No two ways about it. If tomorrow a War does break out between India and China, then the CCP can utilize these apps to spread propaganda to influence Indian public against the Government. Foreign interference is grounds for strengthening National Security. And this ban is not from the Government alone. Indians have literally been demanding a boycott of Chinese apps and goods for well over a year now! So it is actually the Government which has acted late! You can read more about it here: https://www.thequint.com/tech-and-auto/tech-news/tiktok-app-down-rated-facing-backlash-from-india-users https://www.thequint.com/tech-and-auto/tech-news/tiktok-app-... It is not easy to get an app rating to go down from 4.9/5 to 1.3 within few days on Google Play Store when it has close to 1.5 billion downloads. You can imagine the anger among the Indian public.
  • connectsnk 6y ago
    Sooner or later it will happen
  • rllearneratwork 6y ago
    while I absolutely won't allow any of those apps on my school-aged children phones and would never install one myself, it would be absolutely wrong for US government to dictate what software we can and can not use. Same goes for books and movies.
    • bg24 6y ago
      How about changing from "dictate" to "recommend or advise" for betterment of Americans?
  • pphysch 6y ago
    CCP, NSA, tomato tomato.
  • KingOfCoders 6y ago
    Yes and Europe doing the same to Chinese and US apps.
    • ketzu 6y ago
      If we started taking gdpr more seriously, the apps basically ban themselves!
  • pvelagal 6y ago
    US Senators already introduced a bill ! https://www.hawley.senate.gov/senators-hawley-scott-introduce-legislation-ban-tiktok-government-devices https://www.hawley.senate.gov/senators-hawley-scott-introduc...
• sanmon3186 6y ago
  This ban is primarily to satiate anti-China sentiment. The global economy is too interwined with China. No country can afford to put a blanket ban on things that matter, without a viable plan-B.
  • cm2187 6y ago
    Overnight, I agree. But I think the decoupling will happen. The outsourcing to China took about 10 years (mid 90s to mid 2000s). It will likely not take a lot longer to decouple. 10y is very rapid.
    • chrisco255 6y ago
      We in the U.S. should have partnered more closely with India in the first place. India is democratic and hold values closer to our own. The CCP not so much.
      • agilebyte 6y ago
        More democratic than China, yes. A low bar to clear.
        • parthdesai 6y ago
          While you may disagree with the current elected government in India (I do as well), it is the definition of democracy. Majority of the population did want that government. Also, in India a person managed to lead a protest, form an entire new party and become the chief minister of a state because people were behind him. That is democracy as well. Tell me when has that happened in the states in recent times.
          • kerkeslager 6y ago
            The person you are responding to is based in Ontario and is therefore probably Canadian. I'm not informed enough to have an opinion on Canadian politics, but I do know that Canada is has provinces, not states. ;)
• sbmthakur 6y ago
  For context, India and China are currently locked in a border conflict and both sides are building up[1]. There is also the issue of PRC's National Intelligence Law, which mandates every Chinese company's assistance and cooperation with the state intelligence[2]. 1. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/satellite-images-show-buildup-on-india-china-border/articleshow/76666203.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/satellite-images-s... 2. https://www.lawfareblog.com/beijings-new-national-intelligence-law-defense-offense https://www.lawfareblog.com/beijings-new-national-intelligen...
• baybal2 6y ago
  Almost all (except 1) are Chinese made. I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with this https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/china-has-intruded-423-metres-into-indian-territory-in-the-galwan-valley-2253916 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/china-has-intruded-423-metre...
  • TulliusCicero 6y ago
    I don't see a problem with targeting Chinese-made apps, given how much China blocks from other countries. Free trade has to work both ways.
    • ngold 6y ago
      I don't see a problem with banning Spyware regardless of the country of origin.
      • systemvoltage 6y ago
        The parent comment isn't talking about spyware. Imagine if US.app and China.app were both clean, no spyware. If China subsidizes and allows China.app to have access to their domestic market but bans US.app, while US allows China.app to rake in billions of dollars in revenue in the US - this is purely an economic fairness and global trade issue. There is no sane defensive argument against this. Chinese market is 1.3 billion people. It is massive. Not allowing western apps/services to serve this market is unfair in every imaginable way. I would say the US should ban all CCP services/apps, etc until China opens up its borders for any country to service their people. This shouldn't just apply to US. Are you an Italian software company? Do you need to kow-tow to the CCP or plainly banned from serving in China? Swedish company? English? Australian? German? French? This has nothing to do with nationalism or politics which divides us all. It is about preserving global trade to the benefit of all nations and following fair practices and requirements set forth by the WTO. All democracies need to get together and put light on this problem. I think that's happenning: https://www.ipac.global/ https://www.ipac.global/ There is also no mystery around this - China does not want to expose their citizens to international values, services, culture and information. Thus, this diplomatic/economic pressure hits the nerve center of the CCP machinery.
• sadfev 6y ago
  It was brewing for a while. I am surprised that so many apps got b&. I was sure weChat and TikTok were gonna get axed but not others
  • geekrax 6y ago
    > "b&" wow!
• vijaybritto 6y ago
  China moved into Indian territory and has killed 20 Indian soldiers and this is how India is retaliating. The prime minister is not even mentioning China in his speeches or tweets. This has been a disaster for our country.
  • stevens32 6y ago
    Don't worry, apparently India has "snapped the necks of at least 18 PLA" https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/indian-soldiers-mercilessly-killed-chinese-pla-troops-after-their-co-fell-report https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/indian-soldiers-merciless...
    • vijaybritto 6y ago
      swarajya mag is not a news source. They're blatantly biased. Also this news is not confirmed. Just speculation which is enough to make the public feel good.
      • stevens32 6y ago
        This is super late, but if you see this - care to clarify what the bias is?
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• zandroid 6y ago
  InShot is missing.
  • eqtn 6y ago
    Resso is missing
• SoulMan 6y ago
  Interestingly even before this ban, there has been a movement (at least by armchair critics in Social Media) to uninstall Chinese apps. People started installing this unknown app "Remove china apps" to get rid of the apps that Chinese phone makers like Xiomi does not let you remove. People started removing Chinese apps not because of national security but because they thought it would stop boosting Chinese economy which in turn will come as defense budget Bigger question is how do you stop the market penetration of mobiles like Oppo/Vivo/Xiomi etc and all the Startups like Ola/Flipkart which is backed by Chinese investment. https://www.indiatvnews.com/technology/news-remove-china-apps-removed-from-google-play-store-how-to-install-android-623335 https://www.indiatvnews.com/technology/news-remove-china-app...
  • Avamander 6y ago
    That "Remove China" app was also removed from Google Play: https://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/remove-china-apps-google-play-android-suspension-2239810 https://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/remove-china-apps-google-...
• x87678r 6y ago
  India smartphone marketshare: Xiaomi 30% Vivo 17% Samsung 16% Realme 14% Oppo 12% Others 11% https://www.counterpointresearch.com/india-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/india-smartphone-share/
  • bg24 6y ago
    Curious why can't India learn the lesson that China uses to change these statistics in 3 months? Of course, if it is related to long-term national security. - Ban the companies for 3 months. Then allow selectively. - Reduce the tax from South Korea and Japan.
    • minusSeven 6y ago
      Because of trade deficit that is already in China's favour. I assume banning these companies means further actions on China's part that will impact India even harder.
      • yinyang_in 6y ago
        Would deficit reduce if we ban mobile providers, since deficit is more on side of India. Doesn't china comparatively has lesser moves than india as it enjoys trade benefit far more than India.
        • minusSeven 6y ago
          No here we don't know what steps they would take, they could block trade of things we need. Its not just about the trade deficit itself.
• amrrs 6y ago
  Covid cases are on rise in India. Government didn't handle lockdown well to accommodate guest (migrant) workers and they were stranded. On top of all these, lives of Indian soldiers died recently in a clash with Chinese soldiers and China is continuously testing limits at Galwan Valley. You need a disruptive breaking news to crush all these and prove Government is in control. This is simply that. This is nothing but fueling the anti-China sentiment growing in the country. This will temporarily relieve government from answering the other growing concerns. It's also quite ironic that so many companies with strong Chinese funding are still operating. Chinese smartphone makers are also doing great in India despite economic slowdown. OnePlus recently did a flash sale and sold out. It'll be interesting to see what's going to happen in Long term. But this one, it's just a spicy headlines.
  • saltedonion 6y ago
    Might be a form of shifting the narrative and scapegoating for sure. But you have to admit that recent events have outlined a significant shift in Indian-Sino foreign policy. I don’t see this being reversed any time soon.
  • mratsim 6y ago
    Seems like they learned from Trump and the change in visa/immigration to distract the public.
    • baybal2 6y ago
      People downvoted you unjustly. Your position is substantiated. The amount of actual impact on trade in between China, and USA is completely microscopic in relation to the amount of noise, and commotion. One can not believe that sides genuinely oppose each other, rather than doing a theatrical performance with unspoken mutual understanding.
  • sbmthakur 6y ago
    Boycotting China is not a binary thing. Banning Chinese funded Indian startups and Chinese mobile companies which have big plants in India(and support thousands of jobs) is a complex thing. On the other hand, banning spyware from the country you are currently in conflict is common sense and not that tricky. It's far more than spicy headlines. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23634138 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23634138 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23638129 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23638129
• saltedonion 6y ago
  India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.
  • joshribakoff 6y ago
    There is no guarantee any app is not doing this, should we ban all apps?
  • ianleeclark 6y ago
    Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.
    • azinman2 6y ago
      It’s about allies versus active enemies. There are shootouts on a regular basis between India and China, and they’ve intensified recently.
      • seamyb88 6y ago
        Ah right. Because the U.S. is never involved in war, it's a different story for youtube etc...
      • ianleeclark 6y ago
        So it's just opportunism, then? Condemn the other; refuse reflection. Or am I misunderstanding you?
        • azinman2 6y ago
          I can’t say what India’s motivation is for sure. Maybe there’s a credible threat in a way that Facebook isn’t. Maybe it’s just anti-Chinese fervor. But saying anything outside of India should be treated the same is not taking into account geo-politics and individual country’s behaviors.
• bitstorm999 6y ago
  Is it me or does this domain fail to resolve via cloudflare? [user@host tmp]$ nslookup pib.gov.in 8.8.8.8 Server: 8.8.8.8 Address: 8.8.8.8#53 Non-authoritative answer: Name: pib.gov.in Address: 164.100.117.99 [user@host tmp]$ nslookup pib.gov.in 1.1.1.1 Server: 1.1.1.1 Address: 1.1.1.1#53 server can't find pib.gov.in: SERVFAIL
• sradman 6y ago
  > The 2020 China–India skirmishes are part of an ongoing military standoff between China and India. ...numerous Indian government officials said that border tensions will not impact trade between India and China despite some Indian campaigns about boycotting Chinese products. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_China–India_skirmishes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_China–India_skirmishes
• ericls 6y ago
  US should’ve done this months ago.
• factorialboy 6y ago
  Am I the only one concerned about how TikTok is promoting child pornography by serving as a gateway for young girls and boys to prostitution apps such as OnlyFans? I think this is a bigger concern than loss of privacy. Those comparing loss of privacy for Indians on US apps / platforms compared to Chinese apps / platforms, China and India are openly hostile. US and India are not. This is a big difference.
  • crispyporkbites 6y ago
    I wouldn’t compare onlyfans to prostitution, it’s not the same as going out on the street. If anything it’s empowering.
    • factorialboy 6y ago
      Not for a 9 yr old.
      • crispyporkbites 6y ago
        I guess we should ban all adult apps and services. Think of the children.
• tech_dreamer 6y ago
  It has everything to do with current border skirmish. Also, 44% percent of tiktok users are from India.
  • qeternity 6y ago
    Source on the demographics? That’s really interesting.
• op03 6y ago
  The kids are going to be pissed with Mr. Modi :) I hope he has a plan of where this goes.
  • yyhhsj0521 6y ago
    Kids can't vote.
    • vulcan01 6y ago
      And parents will appreciate that their kids are spending less time on social media (hopefully) :)
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
• mathnmusic 6y ago
  I think this sort of response was inevitable and will be seen in more and more nations. China bans most of the popular websites and apps (including Wikipedia). The most recent trigger was the border standoff between India and China where Indian citizens could see and read both governments' responses, but Chinese citizens were only told Chinese govt's talking points. This seems like yet another instance of the paradox of tolerance (reciprocity is a must have for a tolerant/liberal/globalized society): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
  • chrischen 6y ago
    The China censors things so we should too stance just seems to strengthen their position of censorship...
    • foepys 6y ago
      Quite the opposite. China (the country, not China the economy) is investing billions into developing tech companies to surveil their citizens. Those apps are all centrally controlled by the Chinese government. They can freely suppress discussions without you ever knowing. Hell, they don't even need to censor it but only need to make it less discoverable. As soon as those apps reach the western hemisphere (or just anything outside China) and become dominant communication mediums, the Chinese government will be able to dictate opinion in the West.
      • tacheiordache 6y ago
        Thats exactly how HN keep misteriously pushing things out of the top 30 no matter how many upvotes.. Also theres control in the flagging mechansim - as in shrugs, we don’t know, it was flagged by some users... shrugs again.. Im just making the case about HN not because I disagree with their job of keeping things civil, in fact this is much less toxic a platform than many others. My point is that whoever has the control can dictate whatever they see fit or serves their interest. For that reason I’d never use TikTok, not even to see what it is about because of who is backing it
      • 6y ago
• kumarvvr 6y ago
  This is a right move, in my view. Chinese infiltration takes a myriad of forms and data collection is one of the biggest. And those apps form a basis for click-of-the-button hacking. And ordinary users will find it very very difficult to determine if an app is Chinese made or not. And the Chinese govt. will have it's fingers in everyone of them, one way or the other. What I do worry now is that since China has been exposed, it will resort to even elaborate deceptive methods to hide itself and it's infiltration. China is not to be trusted.
  • hatenberg 6y ago
    You'll see the same attitude to the US from the rest of the world too
    • takeda 6y ago
      Actually I'm looking forward to it, it would increase pressure to care about privacy or at very least help competition to grow.
    • kumarvvr 6y ago
      Yes. Especially in South America. However, US is not about expansionism. Its about trade and control. It wants markets, trade and resources. China is about expansionism and lacks moral or ethical compass.
      • zpallin 6y ago
        > However, US is not about expansionism. ... wait, what? Since when? You don't think US military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan are about expansionism? Besides, the concept of expansionism includes economic expansion, not just border expansion.
        • kumarvvr 6y ago
          Iraq and Afghanistan are ecomonic and geopolitical reasons as well. Economic expansion is slightly lesser degrading than border expansion. You may bankrupt a man, he will sulk and move on, but if you occupy his land, he will lash out.
• abinaya_rl 6y ago
  All other democratic countries should join India in banning Chinese apps Don’t allow Chinese apps until they open their own market to freely allow foreign apps like Google, Facebook, Youtube etc to function
• privacywiki 6y ago
  I hope many countries to follow this example, not by banning and censorship but actually banning the botnets that are no good and just for mining data.
• OkGoDoIt 6y ago
  So if WeChat is basically the only messaging app allowed in China, and WeChat is not allowed to be used in India, is there any widely available platform that Indian citizens can use to chat with Chinese citizens? Making it impossible or at least very difficult to communicate with people in another country seems like it’s only going to make any divide even worse in the long term. Think of the fallout of Facebook filter bubbles but to an extreme, by making it very difficult to even communicate with someone in a different culture with different viewpoints.
  • ppeetteerr 6y ago
    You can send a text message...
    • crispyporkbites 6y ago
      International text messages can cost a fortune to send
      • bluGill 6y ago
        Or even receive in some cases. My driver in India was paranoid that I might get his number because I receiving a text could cost more than a days wages.
  • ketzu 6y ago
    > So if WeChat is basically the only messaging app allowed in China How did you get that impression? There are a ton of chinese messanging apps, e.g., QQ, which is also on the list of banned apps.
    • technobum 6y ago
      Great job refuting your own point. QQ is owned by the same parent company as WeChat (Tencent). Tencent is also implementing the Chinese Social Credit Score system, and so in my humble opinion, is the tech arm of the chinese government.
• Darmody 6y ago
  I'm absolutely against banning things but TikTok should be banned until we figure out how to protect ourselves from bad actors like the CCP.
  • unishark 6y ago
    I'm not sure that "absolutely" is the right word for you here.
• ryanmarsh 6y ago
  The public health toll of social media will not be fully understood for another 30 years it seems. People with adolescents and teen daughters please chime in here. The rates of suicide, cutting, and psychological problems are climbing. My wife and I find a charity that offers counseling and therapy to young girls. What is common place now was nearly unheard of in my generation (X).
  • yellow_postit 6y ago
    Just because it was “unheard” of didn’t mean it wasn’t happening in GenX. I don’t know if there’s a way to ever fully compare them but there are panics that accompany every new medium of communication.
• koopuluri 6y ago
  I'm curious how this will affect the local startup scene. There's definitely a great demand for these products that now needs to be fulfilled by local / non-Chinese international players. If this ban lasts: My concern is that Facebook will introduce India-specific products to fill this void, while my hope is that local players significantly up their product quality and reach to build a strong domestic tech scene - the way China did a decade and a half ago w/ Tencent, Baidu, ByteDance, etc. This domestic talent expansion will help build a stronger domestic tech ecosystem. Why the concern w/ Facebook? They already have a deathly grip on Indian consumers w/ WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram. Tik Tok was the only major social platform used by Indians that wasn't owned by Facebook, and now they have a chance to potentially grab that as well. I'm not comfortable with one company owning that much attention, I don't trust their privacy policies with their data privacy track record and they don't iterate quickly enough on localized product-features meaning Indian users lag months / years behind western regions (e.g. Instagram in-app shopping experience).
  • searchableguy 6y ago
    What do you think the local market needs right now? Can you give some example?
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• dqpb 6y ago
  I wonder if/how China will use the tiktok data when all these teens are adults.
• stevewodil 6y ago
  How does this ban actually get enforced? How are the apps blocked on devices which already have them installed?
  • khuey 6y ago
    Sounds like it'll be a combination of pulling them from the app stores in India and ISPs blocking connections to the relevant server IPs.
    • YetAnotherNick 6y ago
      Any sources? I am also curious about this.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• seesawtron 6y ago
  I am not sure when and how this ban will take into effect because right now it is still available for download in playstore. So it seems to be more of a strategic move in response to the border issues.
• shaan1 6y ago
  I think this is a good move. With China banning apps from other countries, its right for India to do. We should be doing the same thing in the US
• bg24 6y ago
  From the page: "At the same time, there have been raging concerns on aspects relating to data security and safeguarding the privacy of 130 crore Indians. It has been noted recently that such concerns also pose a threat to sovereignty and security of our country. The Ministry of Information Technology has received many complaints from various sources including several reports about misuse of some mobile apps available on Android and iOS platforms for stealing and surreptitiously transmitting users’ data in an unauthorized manner to servers which have locations outside India. The compilation of these data, its mining and profiling by elements hostile to national security and defence of India, which ultimately impinges upon the sovereignty and integrity of India, is a matter of very deep and immediate concern which requires emergency measures." Thank you, India, for keeping national security first. Hoping it is for the long haul and the decision should not change in a meeting.
• kalesh 6y ago
  I have a conspiracy theory here. Alibaba & AliExpress are missing in that banned list. This seems more like a direct hit on ByteDance rather than China. Facebook recently invested in Reliance Jio. There have been other investments from Silver Lake, Vista Equity Partners etc. TikTok is a big threat to FB, Instagram & YouTube. ByteDance apps TikTok, Vigo Video, Helo have around 300 million users in India. Facebook user base is 280 million. ByteDance had more apps planned for this year. Banning BD is a big win for Facebook & Reliance. Government also get's to score a few points in this coronavirus mess.
  • mav3rick 6y ago
    Its more to do with the border skirmish.
    • kalesh 6y ago
      I don't understand what's the objective here. Banning these apps will have 0 or little financial impact on China. This seems more like a publicity stunt. Banning Alibaba would have been a bold move.
      • quantummkv 6y ago
        > I don't understand what's the objective here. Banning these apps will have 0 or little financial impact on China The intent is not financial. The intent is to block the direct access that China has to manipulate and shape opinions inside India. It's to prevent China from opening another front in it's ongoing war with it's neighbors.
  • NicoJuicy 6y ago
    And it's just a conspiracy theory. When military is getting active, they seriously don't care about a chat app. Except if it's from the invader ofc.
  • acd10j 6y ago
    Alibaba and aliexpress are not popular in india, hardly anyone uses them in India. May be that’s why they were spared banning.
• tksb 6y ago
  I've been passively thinking about this recently. Is there any pathway for individual users to (effectively) do the same for their devices or network, or both? Is IP blocking via hosts or otherwise still effective enough to be useful?
  • quantummkv 6y ago
    For networks, a Raspberry pi with pihole would be great starting step that still works
• rezeroed 6y ago
  What about Chinese phones and their customised Android?
  • suyash 6y ago
    Lot of countries are banning Chinese 5G hardware for the same reasons. Trump also issued ban on mobile device makes like ZTE etc for the same reason.
• libpcap 6y ago
  About time. When will the US ban them? The PRC has banned a lot of US apps anyway.
• chvid 6y ago
  Sad to see India degenerating into nationalism and populism.
  • pvelagal 6y ago
    Why does China ban Google, Twitter, Facebook and Youtube ? Why ? What are they afraid of ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...
  • stevens32 6y ago
    I feel like this could be said for the rest of the world as well
• raghava 6y ago
  This news must be seen along with what happened early this year. https://www.medianama.com/2020/01/223-the-great-indian-firewall/ https://www.medianama.com/2020/01/223-the-great-indian-firew... A Great Indian Firewall is shaping up. Now that the sentiment is all "anti-China!", people would celebrate instead of protesting the great firewall. "Masterstroke!"* - Indian public. *Basically, anything the current leader does, his PR team and his party spokespersons end up terming "unprecedented" / "masterstroke" / "genius move". Everything seems headed towards hardcore Soviet scheme of things.
  • thowme245 6y ago
    > This news must be seen along with what happened early this year. And why shouldn't we see it in the context of Chinese aggression and TikTok's reported spying?
• zxienin 6y ago
  India China have military asymmetry, in favor of later. In such scenario, it is not difficult to imagine, that India use whatever strengths it has, to compensate for this asymmetry. India is a big digital market. Consumerism is being weaponized. One can debate if this indeed is the driver or not. Yet, a statement has been made. Boycott of Chinese physical goods is not as straightforward as digital ones. Low hanging fruit, to make a statement.
• femg 6y ago
  like this kind of bans so I know with Apps are good. haha.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• sloshnmosh 6y ago
  To be clear, India has banned most of the apps listed for the members of their army years ago. Also, many of the apps listed have been removed from the Google Play store several times for violating Googles developer policies and user privacy. Anyone familiar with Android knows to avoid apps made by DU and CM. Another little known factoid is that the “Beauty camera” line (Mitu?) has an admistrative level person that used to work at Cambridge Analytica.
  • balola 6y ago
    Surprised a free tool app would want that guy.
• phoe-krk 6y ago
  Clash of Kings? That online game? Why?
  • dmix 6y ago
    Clash of Kings is owned by a Chinese company called Elex-Tech aka "Beijing ELEX Technology Co". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Kings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Kings Not to be confused with the more popular "Clash of Clans" which is owned by a Finnish company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Clans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Clans
    • em500 6y ago
      That Finnish company is now owned by a Chinese company.
      • dmix 6y ago
        Ha, you're right Supercell is 81.4% owned by Tencent. It's hard to keep up these days.
    • vdfs 6y ago
      Classic Pied Piper China
• dang 6y ago
  We've changed the URL from https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetailm.aspx?PRID=1635206 https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetailm.aspx?PRID=1635206 to an article that adds a bit of background. If there's a better article, we can change it again. The site guidelines call for original sources, of course (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), but press releases are a bit of a grey area because they tend to leave out important context, if not outright mislead.
• sloshnmosh 6y ago
  Here in the USA, Android phones with pre-installed Chinese malware and unremovable rootkit (fota/Over-the-air firmware update app) is given out to our most vulnerable citizens and disabled veterans through the government assistance “Lifeline” program.
• linsomniac 6y ago
  This weekend "someone" was asserting TikTok was extremely malicious, but a lot of things in it raised red flags for me. I wrote up details about the supposed malicious action, and got a little discussion going over on this thread, but it hasn't gotten traction so far: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23679649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23679649 TL;DR: A tweet posts photos of "someone on reddit" saying they had analyzed the TikTok client and it was sending all sorts of data and able to execute .zip downloads, etc. Reddit thread has the poster saying "I'd provide proof, but it's in a soldered on SSD in a broken computer."
• scared2 6y ago
  With recent developments, even during covid we can see that trump visit is paying off. And India is officially trump ally.
• scared2 6y ago
  A one billion market loss
• pvelagal 6y ago
  I am thinking why does China ban Google, Facebook, Twitter and Youtube ? What are they afraid of ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...
• systemvoltage 6y ago
  I just noticed that the link to the official Indian gov press release was modified to TechCrunch. @dang - why was this changed, do you know? May be the Indian Gov Press release site hit hard by HN?
• pvelagal 6y ago
  Everyone questioning India, should first Question China ! Why does this country ban these services ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...
  • hnarn 6y ago
    > Everyone questioning India, should first Question China Or, you could question both. Whataboutism isn't a valid argument, so censorship of the Internet can still be wrong at the same time as China is a malevolent force both on the Internet in general terms and for specific pieces of software or services in more concrete terms.
    • pvelagal 6y ago
      Well, You have grown comfortable with double standards , somehow equating China with rest of world. Please spend sometime questioning that delusion. China is NO WAY QUALIFIED to question any country ! Western decency has been exploited by China for sometime.. But, For Indian politics it is payback time, killing innocents means crossing a red line...it will trigger response ! btw, US senators did introduce a bill way back in march to ban tiktok https://www.hawley.senate.gov/senators-hawley-scott-introduce-legislation-ban-tiktok-government-devices https://www.hawley.senate.gov/senators-hawley-scott-introduc...
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• riverlong 6y ago
  I'm seeing lots of comments about national security-style concerns, and framing this in terms of the recent India-China skirmishes. That all makes sense. Where I think a lot of folks are missing the point is that this is also a tremendous boost to local Indian entrepreneurship. One of the really clever aspects of China's Great Firewall is that it keeps out international competition, which would crush local startups. By banning more advanced, foreign competitors, India gives its local entrepreneurs a chance to grow hugely successful domestic apps, which can then compete internationally.
  • systemvoltage 6y ago
    While I agree about symmetric response to China, here is the problem: > By banning more advanced, foreign competitors, India gives its local entrepreneurs a chance to grow hugely successful domestic apps, which can then compete internationally. If India bans international apps from competing within India, wouldn't Indian apps from these new found enterpreneurs expect the same response from other countries? There is a paradox here. Why should any country allow Indian apps if they cannot compete in India? You realize this is the exact same situation as what India is doing with China. Now replace China with India. What hypocrisy!
    • totony 6y ago
      Thing is chija is already restricting outside entrepreneurs. I don't think that's hypocrisy, it's a two way street
    • vslira 6y ago
      There's no paradox here. The balkanization of the web is a foregone conclusion. And not just between geopolitical rivals: the EU is dead set on creating a local version of FAANG companies.
      • systemvoltage 6y ago
        EU creating its own FAANG would be a great thing for consumers - more competition. Americans wouldn’t mind using EU based services. I personally already use one such critical service - Email. When you turn inwards(like China) and then expect widespread adoption and cooperation whilst banning domestic competition, do you really think that’s better for India? India has the capability to compete at the global level without turning inwards. Entrepreneurs in India can and will compete internationally. When you have virtually no international competition, the overall incentive to compete is reduced and the quality with it.
• jdkee 6y ago
  Your move Apple.
• krn 6y ago
  A reddit user, who claims to have reverse-engineered the TikTok app[1], concluded: > TikTok is a data collection service that is thinly-veiled as a social network. If there is an API to get information on you, your contacts, or your device... well, they're using it. > For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does, and they sure as hell aren't outright trying to hide exactly whats being sent like TikTok is. It doesn't seem surprising now, given that Zoom, which is also being developed in China, acts like a malware application, too[2]. I'm glad, that India is more aware of the possible consequences of using any software made in China than, for instance, the government of the UK is[3]. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news_but_tbh_if_you_have_tiktiok_just_get/ https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22748204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22748204 [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52126534 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52126534
  • sethammons 6y ago
    I didn't realize Zoom was mostly developed in China! That seems bad. > “Our product development team is largely based in China, where personnel costs are less expensive than in many other jurisdictions,” Zoom wrote in a regulatory filing. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/26/zoom-key-profit-driver-ahead-of-ipo-engineers-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/26/zoom-key-profit-driver-ahead...
    • alex_smart 6y ago
      Why?
      • sethammons 6y ago
        China has a history of data snooping to support its totalitarian goals. Software and development that comes out of there should be considered to come with elevated risk. Some companies work with this by ensuring that China-only data is served from within China. If there is no audit of code pushed from China and ran in the US, I'd be suspect that no backdoors or anything else have been introduced by coercion from the state. Perhaps I'm just paranoid, but just because you are not paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not after you.
• neximo64 6y ago
  Are any of you afraid it'll happen to your app? today its China tomorrow it could be another country
  • quonn 6y ago
    But it won‘t.
  • zigh 6y ago
    Any of you afraid that the once unconceivable WWIII is gradually become possible because of the irresponsible politician trying to mitigate their own misconduct/misjudgement by instigating hate and xenophobia.
• ausjke 6y ago
  Please ban them in US too. WeChat in particular is used to train their censorship AI engine.
• Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  This should have been done a long time ago. Chinese services have an unrestricted access to their local user base + users of the whole world, while services from any other countries might easily be blocked in China for one reason or another, thus reducing their potential user base by several hundred million of users. Even without the sinister political reasons behind the censorship by the CCP it would be an unfair competition.
• kumarski 6y ago
  Disclaimer: This is not investment advice, this is lunatic gambling advice from a systems engineer with a background in polymers who is an American born Indian. Tibet quenches the thirst of 3Bn people through ~10 rivers in SE Asia. Kashmir and Tibet are red hot conflict zones and this is through and through a contest of freshwater. This is a powder keg unlike any other and this scenario is collateral shrapnel. China has 5% arable land and its water becomes more putrid by the day. 20% of industrial waste water pollution is from textile dye that's dumped into water, and China has cornered the textile manufacturing market. China uses water for dams. They built something like 20k+ dams in 70 years. China uses water for agriculture, extremely inefficiently. China weaponized water data on the Brahmaputra river and it caused downstream deaths in India. I'm aggressively invested in $DFEN and $BA. Boeing has 400 vendors in Inda. This will heat up. MOD and DRDO ain't no joke. If you were a murderous dictator like Xi Jinping, it would be prudent to kill the muslim minority to ensure a long and stable CCP indoctrinated control of Tibet and all the water brouhaha.
  • pm90 6y ago
    Yes, obviously, long term intense military conflict between nuclear powers leads in incredible security. While both countries engage in Sabre rattling, its inconceivable that there would be an arms race of the kind that would cause a significant change in the stock price of defense contractors. A more likely scenario is the upcoming Biden administration steps in and bullies China and/or India into backing down. The hollowing out of the US State department has probably been one of the most underappreciated casualties of the Trump administration.
    • el_dev_hell 6y ago
      > A more likely scenario is the upcoming Biden administration steps in and bullies China and/or India into backing down. Australian here wayyyyyy out of the US political loop. Is Joe Biden looking likely to win? Has he been promising a hard-line stance on China?
      • pm90 6y ago
• amriksohata 6y ago
  China bans far more stuff, anyone questioning India doesn't realise what China bans. TikTok and a lot of some Chinese apps are seriously untrustworthy
• jialutu 6y ago
  For anyone interested, here is the US National Security's view on the current standoff between China and India, from China's strategic perspective: https://warontherocks.com/2020/06/chinas-strategic-assessment-of-the-ladakh-clash/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB https://warontherocks.com/2020/06/chinas-strategic-assessmen... Seems these repercussions are already put into consideration.
• throwaway122378 6y ago
  Good. US should do the same
• knolax 6y ago
  This comment might be too meta/off topic but.. This thread is hilarious. You have people spamming the same link over and over again and not be greyed out, but if you look into their comment history you'll find dead comments with such controversial opinions as "spice was lucrative during the age of sail" and "Vegan Italian food is possible". HNers are a mercurial lot. I'm looking forward to see the reactions of HN once similar bans get enacted closer to home. The free speech and free market absolutists have been silent so far, let's see how long they can maintain the cognitive dissonance.
• cmonnow 6y ago
  How long will it take China to rebrand these apps under a different name ?
• didip 6y ago
  Well.. besides the blatant privacy concerns, it seems fair to ban Chinese apps since they themselves also ban foreign apps.
  • scarlac 6y ago
    I strongly disagree. We should prefer to not divide the world if we can. The sentiment "If they can be bad, so can I" is not the recipe for a world I want to build. I believe the world would regress if we kept acting like that.
    • Knuthtruth 6y ago
      It's easy to be idealistic while sitting at home comfortably . These 2 countries are currently at the brink of war, when one country attacks you, you need to defend yourself anyway you can. I don't see anything wrong in Indias actions. China has long asked for such rebuttal from its neighbors.
    • balola 6y ago
      If you can't contain the hostile players, limiting youself is only going to speed up your own death.
    • thekyle 6y ago
      But what's the alternative? Appeasement?
• 1024core 6y ago
  If China can ban websites and apps (for whatever reasons), why can't India? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
• solutron 6y ago
  I don't wanna sound like "that guy" but we have to take a step back and ask ourselves how we got here. The entire software industry has it's roots in espionage and war, even though the past 30 years have seen a massive expansion of consumer technology that, on the surface, completely removes us from that history. Necessity is the mother of invention, as they say. It's a wonder that we have consumer tech for entertainment and enhancing our lives and that we've built vast markets on it. But, we can't forget the fact that our experience on that end of the technology spectrum doesn't negate where and when we fit into a broader timeline spanning generations. If the doers, the technologists and creators forget this, countries like China are going to run roughshod over the United States, and use what they've learned from and about us against us and against democratic ideals abroad. I've been telling people for the past year or more to stop using TikTok and I get mostly snickers or "that's interesting". American hubris leads us to think we'll always be "on top" and that discoveries like this are fundamentally inconsequential. There's larger plays in flux at the geopolitical scale and it'd be a mistake for Americans to ignore it and pretend it's "no big deal." India has it's own reasons to conduct the ban, right or wrong, but American's should really consider following suit, especially as we head into election season and as social unrest and loose ends continue to shape America's future.
• SmokeyHamster 6y ago
  Good on India. They're smarter than we are.
• gopiandcode 6y ago
  While there may be a legitimate discussion to be had about the dangers of foriegn-state controlled mass social media, it is rather disheartening to see so many cheer the restriction of user freedom and increasing censorship.
• TLightful 6y ago
  Everyone is kissing China's netherlands for their hardware, and suddenly becoming precious over their software. Hippopotamuses!
  • stevens32 6y ago
    Hardware is also getting a fair share of international bans
• mappum 6y ago
  This is fascinating - I have been quantitatively tracking TikTok trends and Indian songs consistently top the charts on TikTok by view counts. This will displace many Indian TikTok users and either a new platform will spring up, or Indians will get slightly better at using VPNs (just like internet users in China). (For the curious, my TikTok data is shared here: https://tiktometer.com https://tiktometer.com)
• euix 6y ago
  I rather look at this from a rational pov then moral grandstand from one soap box or another, since I have no dog in this fight. My thinking is, this would be a good casus belli for India if they have the national ability to develop home grown alternatives. If you look at the evolution of the Chinese market, one of the key reasons China was able to develop a vast and independent internet ecosystem was its ability to ban the U.S. based groups such as Youtube, Google, facebook all at select political moments. Had the Chinese never done this, there is no way its domestic eco-system would have developed the way it has. At best foreign firms would own a substantial minority share, instead the Chinese firms like Alibaba and Tencent were able to consolidate monopolistic positions at home and then use that as a base to expand outwards into SEA, India and other developing markets, thereby challenging what would otherwise be a U.S. based monopoly on leading information technology. From a nation building and state capitalist perspective it was actually quite a smart move. At the time, the western content providers were all banned at one point or another based on individual political reasons (Google hacking, arab spring..etc) and while there were political reasons to do so (censor and control the discourse of Chinese popular opinion) there was vast economic benefits down the road. I am sure the high level thinking in policy making in China recognize this "two birds with one stone" aspect. I suspect India would like to do something similar. Right now the "foreign barbarians" in India are not the technologically more advance American firms like in China's days in the 90's. It's cash rich and state backed Chinese firms (Alibaba, Tencent, Xiaomi, Douyin, and the like). So seizing this as a good excuse to maybe not outright ban (we don't know if the TikTok ban won't be reversed at a later time) but even to throttle and restrict them in the domestic Indian market, provided there are domestic alternatives that can built up would be a good move 10-20 years down the road. Or even better, use the opportunity to shake down and force more technology transfer from the Chinese firms in return for market access. India like China has a sufficiently large population and thereby potential domestic market to pursue this strategy.
• robofanatic 6y ago
  It would be interesting to see Tiktok's usage chart today
• pmarreck 6y ago
  Good. Free societies should be completely isolated from societies without remotely the same liberties, human rights or sense of ethics. If you make money off a country because it permits its workers to be enslaved and paid a pittance, you both support the ongoing enslavement AND reward the leaders of that country. This is a devils' tradeoff.
• zachguo 6y ago
  Surprisingly HNers are embracing the concept of cyber sovereignty that China and Russia are pushing.
  • sergiotapia 6y ago
    money makes it easy for them.
• wogong 6y ago
  Finally Chinese companies know the feeling of being banned in another country.
• electro_blah 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm sure this has nothing to do with them killing Indian soldiers. it's sad how this is more bigger news than that.
• nitrobeast 6y ago
  Slightly off topic. After the Covid-19 masks are not useful / we must wear masks fiasco, if you are willing to think it through, it is painful how most media are not independent at all. At best they are beholden to group thinks, parroting government officials. At worst they are just instruments of propaganda. I believe it is time for each person to control the information they receive, just like diet. AdBlockers are a good first step.
• notsag-hn 6y ago
  I am really amazed to read so many people talking of chinese companies as the greatest threat for our privacy as opposed to american tech companies, do you guys even read the news or just Trump's Twitter account? This is not about the US or China, they are part of this game but (illegally) harvesting data is a global trend that most likely includes you and the company you're working for. Do you want to change the world? Challenge your boss on the information you collect on your users and the practices you use to facilitate them being tracked instead of fighting China 24/7 on the internet, be smarter than a 20-lines-of-code bot, please.
• kabacha 6y ago
  None of these apps are essential or especially unique so they'll be replaced by some local clone few weeks later. Funnily enough that's exactly how it works in China itself — they ban stuff and then replace with local clones which sometimes end up being even better than original except for the spyware bloat.
• sprusemoose 6y ago
  China will look for something to retaliate might not be able to get my butter chicken anymore :( #guangzhouproblems
• Learn2win 6y ago
  mega censorship!
• ipiz0618 6y ago
  Considering the recent crisis that's brewing between the two, it's a rational move for India to not let China get more intelligence data so easily. From a humanitarian point of view, everyone in the world should uninstall these apps as they help collecting data for censorship in China [1]. Also, apart from being a spyware, TikTok is simply a dangerous app which brings much harm to society [2]. [1] - https://citizenlab.ca/2020/05/we-chat-they-watch/ https://citizenlab.ca/2020/05/we-chat-they-watch/ [2] - https://nypost.com/2020/02/13/the-dumb-dangerous-challenges-.. https://nypost.com/2020/02/13/the-dumb-dangerous-challenges-....
• tivonn 6y ago
  god bless
• hnal943 6y ago
  People seem to be missing the point that Chinese Apps are literally spying on their users. iOS just released a patch to keep TikTok from scraping users' clipboards.
• tomohawk 6y ago
  The Chinese government moved in martial artists and elite alpine troops to the area. Shortly there after, a number of unarmed Indian soldiers end up dead in the same area. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-sent-martial-artists-to-india-border-before-deadly-clash-state-media https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-sent-marti... This is small potatoes compared to the concentration camps and genocide and ethic cleansing being forced on Tibet and East Turkistan (what CCP calls Xinjiang). Or to the forced harvesting of organs from living political dissidents. https://chinatribunal.com/ https://chinatribunal.com/ What will it take?
  • stevens32 6y ago
    I read through the tribunal report expecting some sort of evidence, instead it uses guestimates to arrive at numbers for transplant volume then says there's no possible way the organs could've come from volunteers due to that volume. China has 4 times the population of the US, and right about 4 times the amount of transplants claimed in the report.
• rammy1234 6y ago
  This is going to empower startups in India. To create things in India. Every country needs to go product route. Create more than consumption. we will get variety as well as fosters creativity. One thing for sure empowering startup culture is a game changer for india IMO
• sameerds 6y ago
  What surprises me is that the discussion here is taking the original article at face value. Sure, the Indian govt is citing national security as the reason for the ban. But take a slightly cynical view, and focus your attention on this sentence: "Jayanth Kolla, an analyst at research firm Convergence Catalyst, told TechCrunch the move was surprising and will have huge impact on Chinese firms, many of which count India as their biggest market." That's the real reason. This is just posturing between two neighbouring countries who are currently involved in a border dispute. There is already a lot of military posturing, a lot of diplomatic posturing and now a lot of market posturing, which includes the Internet.
  • rsanek 6y ago
    It's probable that the border issue made them more willing to take actions that they might normally avoid in fears of unnecessarily angering China. I think of it less as pure posturing and more as, if we're already in a border dispute we might as well take the opportunity to do some things we planned to but put off.
    • 4BxHkLgUVBG 6y ago
      Yup, this border issue may well be a good thing for India. New Delhi can now officially treat China as an adversary nation and take steps towards securing its national interest without any moral dilemma and without any care as to how CCP will perceive such steps. CCP is now considered hostile so there’s nothing to lose for India.
• nobrains 6y ago
  I don't see how Chinese apps are somehow bad, while the equivalent American apps are not bad. That's being naive.
• jb775 6y ago
  There's an active border dispute currently going on between India and China. Probably equivalent to early movement of a pawn in a game of chess.
• sekhark 6y ago
  If you are looking for Cam Scanner alternative in India, check out Zoho Scanner. Android: zoho.com/zohoscanner/ and iOS: zoho.com/docscanner.
• blunderkid 6y ago
  You'd imagine the Chinese communists would be smarter having been in business for 50 years now. But when pushed into a corner on taking the responsibility for the deadly virus, all they can think of is grabbing land and starting wars with their unfortunate neighbors. But better sooner than later. Now you know that when the dragon becomes a super power, it will be nasty, petty, manipulative, bloody, totalitarian & downright ugly. American capitalism propped up CCP. But CCP covets land and power more than money. And they'd rather go to war with their neighbors than accept that they were responsible for the breakout and the spread. The only fault of TikTok, just like that of Huawei and every other Chinese company is that their ultimate masters is the CCP. And yes that's enough reason to ban them.
• abrbhat 6y ago
  An aspect that most people seem to be missing is that this gives the Indians an opportunity to create their own apps and social networks. This has two benefits, it is a safeguard against information propaganda, and it gives protection to the Indian software industry to grow.
• qserasera 6y ago
  The US should at least consider banning TikTok for its predatory practices as well as other apps on its level posthaste.
• HariPavan 6y ago
  does banning these apps do any good for the Indian Government? It just like taking revenge on Chinese companies rather than china gov.
• affb-4d68-a85 6y ago
  I am from India, and I don't understand this. Why are people comparing TikTok to Facebook and Google? Facebook and Google do horrible user tracking, but there is a big difference. There is such a thing as real dissent in the country where Facebook and Google are headquartered. It actually matters to people who use these services. Do you doubt it? A Twitter account like this cannot be run from inside of China: https://twitter.com/Project_Veritas https://twitter.com/Project_Veritas If you disagree, please comment with a Twitter profile (preferably written in English, but I can also use Google Translate if it is written in Chinese) and change my mind. What about all the naysayers about a LOT of America's policies who still have a public platform? Here is an example: https://www.lewrockwell.com/ https://www.lewrockwell.com/ By the way, just because I am linking to it doesn't mean I agree with everything on that website, which is sort of the whole point isn't it? I am still able to read and then think about dissenting voices. Can someone show me the Chinese equivalent of that website?
• ekianjo 6y ago
  That's pretty fair seeing that China bans a lot of content/apps/sites that is not produced in China.
• leozhi2 6y ago
  I run a hard tech product team, our product is moving from prototype to the alpha stage in the next three months. Lots of components come in from China, because they cost twice as much in this country. WeChat is how we (or anyone) talk to Chinese vendors. No Canton Fair, no China travel, communication cut off at its knees, and issues with customs' clearances - this is going to be a brutal time for strained budgets and timelines.
• known 6y ago
  Evidence suggests Modi regime was receiving Chinese donations for many years; Recently TikTok donated 30 crore rupees to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PM_CARES_Fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PM_CARES_Fund Will Modi regime return these funds ?
• brorisholt95 6y ago
  We USA people should also ban tiktok because they steeling our privacy.
• vgchh 6y ago
  With the recent killing of 20 Indian soldiers, conventionally India would’ve responded militarily. Though the reality is India can’t afford a military conflict with the much more powerful China. Thus banning the apps is a good response. You kill our 20 people and alter boundaries, we cut off your businesses from our markets at the very least.
• john4532452 6y ago
  Did the ban go through court process or its imposed by ruling party decision ?
• Nginx487 6y ago
  Absolutely right decision. There are no private companies in China, all of the corporate entities directly or indirectly depend on CCP, which uses every opportunity to damage national security of enemies.
• korginator 6y ago
  It's funny looking at the responses bashing India's decision here. With the current geo-political climate, and China pretty much swallowing up and controlling all of India's neighbours - Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Nepal, I'd say this decision is long overdue. In more recent months, China's military has become increasingly aggressive against India and in the South China Sea, and they've just recently passed a draconian 'national security' law in Hong Kong which pretty much allows them unlimited control over the territory. With this in mind, China is starting to look like a grave threat to the peace and stability of Asia and beyond (apropos their recently influencing the elections in Kiribati and having a puppet leader installed). India welcoming Chinese made software is like the US deploying Iranian or North Korean origin software. Tell me how that works out.
• entha_saava 6y ago
  I am an Indian and here is my perspective. A significant portion of Indian smartphone users are not technically literate. Lot of shady adware developed in China is ubiquitous in India, due to inertia and network effects, as well as lack of awareness about security / permissions given to apps etc.. For example, that file sharing application called ShareIt. That's a piece of shit. But people used it and if you wanted to share some movie / song / something like that with other people, you would've needed that crap. I have refused to use such adware since an year and it worked for me because content I consume was different, there was cheap Jio internet and I didn't need to share much files with others. The technically educated of us used Google Files or Xender which were better than ShareIt. And most people don't own PC/Laptop thus Pendrives are out of question. Similarly people used browsers like UC browser without concerns, because they didn't know better. Now there is friction between China and India, the ubiquity of Chinese apps is a threat, and Govt. has taken right step. But more stuff needs to be banned, and the danger needs to be clearly communicated instead of a blanket ban, which leads people to think it is just an act of patriotism.
• MarioKartBowser 6y ago
  #DefundThePLA
• happppy 6y ago
  yeah, block apps when you can't win a war.
• bobbydreamer 6y ago
  Tiktok is a happy app. It make you smile, laugh and relax. Ofcourse India will ban it. Next will be zoom why there is JioMeet. Can anyone find 5 differences between JioMeet and Zoom app.