18 ms·

“Tesla will now move its HQ and future programs to Texas/Nevada immediately”

149 points by edward 7y ago

mdorazio 7y ago
I honestly don't know what to think of this. Can Elon even make unilateral and rash decisions like this? I know Tesla is hurting right now due to the forced shutdowns of manufacturing, but so are all the other OEMs - why is Elon trying to hard to sidestep restrictions?
- rio517 7y ago
  Seems like is is trying to get same restrictions as other places in California. And elsewhere.
- kitotik 7y ago
  Ummm, money?
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  >Can Elon even make unilateral and rash decisions like this? Investors almost certainly knew what they were signing up for, so, "yes" would be the answer. How Tesla ends is not yet written, but even enterprises with steady, conservative hands on the reins have sputtered.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- jariel 7y ago
  1) His factory cannot get moving, due to restrictions, he's using a populist platform to make sure people know it's not his fault, and to put pressure on the county. 2) He's using Twitter a little bit like Trump - saying somewhat inflammatory things, tapping into an emotional vein, possibly garnering support from fanboys, making noise. Twitter it seems, is a place where statements don't have to be fully true or real. It's like an 'emotional landscape' where people can push the buttons of the masses and get away with it. A lot of people in the investor class right now are upset their stocks are falling, they see the pandemic is not as bad as predicted and they want everyone back to work. Many working people feel similarly. But a larger group of people, especially those in difficult conditions, are rightly afraid; the 'meatpacking plants' in various places have had huge covid outbreaks and some deaths, in Canada it's been a serious source of outbreak. There's no reason to believe it won't be the same anywhere else. But Elon is missing something in his rants: if and when the factory does startup, there will be a COVID outbreak on some level and there is a very high chance that a Tesla employee somewhere, somehow will die from COVID. Now it may not be 'his fault' but it won't matter. If Elon is seeing as being unsympathetic and not concerned about his staff - and - someone dies from Covid (one way or another, possibly not even really related to his policy) - then it could blow up and backfire on him in an existential way. CNN: "Elon Musk forces people back to work; 2 dead from Covid" - is the kind of stain that does not come off. Elon needs to spend a lot more time publicly demonstrating empathy and showing materially how he is working protecting his workers.
  - photoGrant 7y ago
    I’m shocked you’re downvoted as you have a level headed opinion that doesn’t polarise and pick objectives. It’s the problem not seen
  - ac29 7y ago
    > A lot of people in the investor class right now are upset their stocks are falling I'm not sure this is entirely true - stocks are worth more than they were last June, way before this crisis started and have trended up over the past month. Maybe this will still be true in 6 months or a year, maybe not - its far too early to say. If anything, it seems the "investor class" thinks there are bargains to be had right now.
    - jariel 7y ago
      Almost everyone lost out, and so they are down from the peak, so the bargains are neutral, or rather, they don't have the excess cash for them. Very few had the wherewithal to time it right. But culturally, the business world has an innate paternalistic industriousness. They want to 'get things moving' on a much deeper level. Musk is saying what most business leaders are thinking, right or wrong.
      - perl4ever 7y ago
        The Nasdaq is up for the year. Everybody panicked around March 13th, and the market bottom appears to have been within a week of that. It's been nearly straight up from there. I don't know if Wall Street was right yet, but that was its verdict. Now, it's true that my IRA is down a little, but I'm not really "the investor class". You say "very few had the wherewithal to time it right", but I'd question that, because all it took, in principle, was doing nothing. Not possible for everyone who's unemployed, for instance, but not something that takes large amounts of brains or capital.
      - ac29 6y ago
        > Almost everyone lost out Yeah, this just isnt true. Every dollar put into the market a year ago has increased in value (broadly speaking, individual investments obviously vary). Being "down from the peak" doesnt matter, what matters is where you are compared to cash (aka, not investing).
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  The problem here is that the restrictions have been broadly lifted by California and many other states, but Bay Area counties have stricter rules that still forbid manufacturing.
  - tenpies 7y ago
    And keep in mind that the State added a "Psychopath CEO wants to endanger workers to pump the stock price" clause after Musk's refusal to comply back in March when he tried to claim this same argument: > Nothing in this Order shall be construed to limit the existing authority of local health officers to establish and implement public health measures within their respective jurisdictions that are more restrictive than, or that otherwise exist in addition to, the public health measures imposed on a statewide basis pursuant to the statewide directives of the State Public Health Officer. From: https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/5.4.20-EO-N-60-20-text.pdf https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/5.4.20-EO-... There is literally no problem other than Musk is clearly lying about Tesla's liquidity and is desperate enough that he needs to produce cars this week. I mean he claims there was $8 BB in cash but is getting loans from China and refusing to pay rents. Something doesn't add up. I'm super curious how this unfolds, especially if he thinks California is up and is now opening a factory in Germany. The meltdown's we'll get from his efforts in Germany are going to be just pure insanity.
- Animats 7y ago
  Can Elon even make unilateral and rash decisions like this? Probably not. He's not chairman of the board. Robyn M. Denholm is. The board has some strong figures on it, including Larry Ellison and James Murdoch.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  Normally you'd assume he's anchored this with his Board before announcing this. Thought with Elon, who knows :)
- mlindner 7y ago
  https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/gm-plans-resume-production-may-18-majority-na-operations https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/gm-plans-resume-produ... GM is also restarting operations.
  - aguyfromnb 7y ago
    May 18th, the exact date Alameda County was going to allow Tesla to open until Musk had another hissy fit.
    - Rapzid 7y ago
      Apparently Alameda County was already working/planning on having Tesla resume operations on May 18th as well. But Musk had a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that they had different rules in place than the State(which listed manufacturing as resuming on the 18th prior) and, as he often does, made the situation worse by his rash instincts. It's clear his current instincts, or at least under certain mental states prone to shifting, is that Tesla knows better than Alameda County. Who are they to doubt Tesla's amazing back-to-work plan that worked in China?! Except Musk and Tesla are not in charge of public health. They are not elected officials that are on the line for ensuring a Tesla outbreak doesn't spread to the rest of the county/public. It takes time to for the government to vet plans and coordinate this stuff. The tweet was unnecessary.
downerending 7y ago
This is being couched as a spat over the lockdown versus Tesla production, but I wonder if it's not part of a larger picture, which is that the Bay Area has become a harder and harder place to do business, because of economic realities. It'd be nice to see technical work spread away from the hotspots and across America. Concentrating it in a few places makes for a surprisingly miserable existence.
- azinman2 7y ago
  It also enables free moving of talent between companies that only further allows great companies to be built. It’s very hard to build a high-tech company in Tulsa, say, if the total numbers of available superstars are low. Tesla building HQ in Silicon Valley enabled it to get types of people he never would have otherwise. Few are leaving Google to go to GM, for example.
  - ec109685 7y ago
    Assuming remote work doesn’t become the new normal.
  - xiphias2 7y ago
    A lot of those superstars would love to get out of California if they would get the same salary in absolute amount. Usually companies make the mistake of ,,adjusting for cost of living'', and then of course they will find most talent in the most expensive cities.
    - stu2b50 7y ago
      I disagree, I think people underestimate the social cost of uprooting your life, leaving all of your friends and families, and moving into an area that often has beliefs counter to your own There's already examples. Epic will pay you top tech level salaries in the middle of nowhere, where you can live like a king. Superstars seem to be staying put.
      - mrep 7y ago
uberman 7y ago
From the tweets manipulating stock prices to the name of his kid, claims of forsaking possessions, false claims about constitutional guarantees of limitless freedom, to the flagrant disregard for the health and safety of his employees, I can't help but wonder if Musk has had some medical event that is imparing his cognition. He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity but these days he just seems like the typical angry CEO looking to manipulate things to his advantage.
- vulcan01 7y ago
  Didn't he say that he doesn't get enough sleep [1]? That may be the "medical event"... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-sleep-deprivation-damage-2018-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-sleep-deprivation-...
  - dkersten 7y ago
    Given the effects of my own stints with way too little sleep over long periods of time, I would say yes. Not getting enough sleep really does mess with your brain.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
  I don't want to simplify it too much, but there is a lot money on the line. And after that, there is legacy to think of. Humanity takes a back seat to those two.
- dr_dshiv 7y ago
  Another way to look at it is that the world has gotten crazier than Elon. > false claims about constitutional guarantees of limitless freedom I don't know that i saw that tweet. Was this referring to first amendment freedom of assembly?
- seibelj 7y ago
  He's a billionaire and doesn't give a fuck, he's living his life exactly the way he wants to - "Life is Art" - and enjoys being a kooky public figure. He just doesn't care what you or anyone thinks.
botolo 7y ago
After recent statements, I am surprised that the board has not decided to remove him, immediately.
- stefan_ 7y ago
  They can't, he has enough equity to veto all and any board decisions.
  - mlindner 7y ago
    He doesn't. He only owns 20% or so of the company.
    - refurb 7y ago
      Yes, but the voting is set up to need a super majority. Basically, nothing can pass without his votes.
- jdross 7y ago
  On what grounds? You don't like how he tweets? He has built a $150 billion company from the ground up, is 5-7 years ahead of his competitors, in a sector where it is nearly impossible to survive. The company has dramatically accelerated the shift to electric vehicles. You don't like him? Don't follow him on twitter or buy the stock or products. Otherwise, he seems not to dissimilar from most neuro-atypical founders I know
  - dr_dshiv 7y ago
    > He has built a $150 billion company from the ground up, is 5-7 years ahead of his competitors, in a sector where it is nearly impossible to survive. Yeah, but what has he done lately? Also, his tweets.
    - lazyjones 7y ago
      > but what has he done lately Um... He won a contract to carry astronauts to the moon?
dkdk8283 7y ago
I agree with Elon here, many California policies are over the top and it seems more laws, taxes, and other restrictions are constantly popping up. The bay area has always been a hotspot for radical activism. I lived in CA for awhile and couldn’t take it, so I left.
- dr_dshiv 7y ago
  Couldn't handle the freedom, I'm guessing? Edit: Americans think they have a lot of freedom. It's funny. You'd think the fact you can't drink a beer on a park bench would indicate otherwise, but hey.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please keep nationalistic flamebait off HN. We have enough problems with thread quality without that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - dr_dshiv 7y ago
      Agree and apologies. Thank you.
- seibelj 7y ago
  I live in Massachusetts, and we actually have fairly low taxes given the level of progressive politics, plus a Republican governor. There are active and organized groups that oppose the wacky "tax and regulate everything to death" types. Maybe California will become so unworkable and impossible to business in that it is forced to reform.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    California had republican governors for a long time as well as a strong republican minority in the state legislature. But now the Dems have a supermajority in the legislature and a democratic governor so there is no longer a check on the wackiest policies. Plus the fact that we’ve always had state propositions that come direct from the people, a system now being efficiently abused by special interests. The number of ridiculous propositions has gone way up, and most people vote just based on the title. It’ll be interesting to see if there is a course correction in the next few elections.
bambax 7y ago
He mentions "the President" like if he wasn't a dimwit who advises drinking bleach... Tesla should move its HQ to Mars.
- fourstar 7y ago
  You got a source to back up where exactly he "advised" to drink bleach?
  - VyperCard 7y ago
    Do you mean that sarcastically or?
  - dave5104 7y ago
    > The frantic reaction was prompted by President Trump’s suggestion on Thursday at a White House briefing that an “injection inside” the human body with a disinfectant like bleach or isopropyl alcohol could help combat the virus. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/politics/trump-inject-disinfectant-bleach-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/politics/trump-inject-...
    - chippy 7y ago
      thats far too sensible to have an upvote
    - refurb 7y ago
      The exact quote, from your link. “One minute,” the president said. “And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.” Saying that Trump suggested people "should drink bleach" is not an accurate summary of that statement at all. It would be more fair to characterize that as "Trump asks if disinfectants could be used to treat Coronavirus".
      - dave5104 7y ago
Fjolsvith 7y ago
I don't blame them. The Top Four Reasons California Is Unsustainable: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the-top-four-reasons-california-is-unsustainable/#5bce3bb3a239 https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the... And I don't see it has improved.
jdhn 7y ago
1. I wonder if he'll actually do this, or if this is brinkmanship to extract some concessions from Cali. 2. If he really does do this, I would assume that he would move into the Reno/Carson City area because that's where the factory is. If this is the case, then he really needs to throw his weight around to loosen restrictions on building new residential housing in the area, whether than takes the form of fewer parking spaces per building, reducing the amount of setbacks, or both. Both rent and housing are very expensive there.
- jbreiding 7y ago
  #1 seemed to work for Amazon didn't it? Sure it put some of the way they do business under a micro scope, or unneeded attention. But musk seems to not care too much about the attention.
dekhn 7y ago
I normally flag every HN article about an Elon tweet, but as this is directly related to business of a tech-oriented company, I think it actually qualifies as "hacker news" not "inane spewing of nonsense". Also, if he thinks that any judges will side with him against health authorities making decisions on the basis of reasonable scientific evidence (which is what CA is doing), I think he's mistaken. However, and I think there's a big however here- I think Elon has been making friends with Trump and hopes that Trump will lend him some support here.
slg 7y ago
It is getting harder and harder to be a fan of Tesla when Musk is out here routinely saying ridiculous shit. I genuinely like their cars and their mission, but this guy is just unhinged.
- akmarinov 7y ago
  Same here. Their cars look great but he’s so volatile and out of touch that it’s off putting and makes me wonder whether buying a vehicle of theirs for him to run things into the ground one day out of nowhere is a good idea.
- natch 7y ago
  Did you hear about how many Tesla employees in China died of the virus after they resumed production? Insane, right?
  - busymom0 7y ago
    For those wondering - I would recommend Elon's recent podcast on Joe Rogan. They have 8000 employees in China and 0 deaths. He knows what he's doing.
    - dmode 7y ago
      China also claimed they had only 5k deaths
      - busymom0 7y ago
        Like I said in my comment, listen to what he actually says in the podcast before making judgement. He specifically says he knows a lot of people who got infected but Tesla had 0 deaths in China from 8000 employees and he knows it because he does payroll.
      - natch 7y ago
        State run media has no bearing whatsoever on what an employer knows about its employees.
GaryNumanVevo 7y ago
I remember a long time ago, the Hollywood moguls threatened to pick up and move out when California was getting more socially liberal, look who’s still here 100 years later
- luckylion 7y ago
  The socially liberal Hollywood moguls? So in a hundred years, it will be Tesla that's still in California, only then they will advocate to shut down their factories indefinitely?
pengaru 7y ago
Ambien. after being asked whether he writes his own tweets: "I'm the only author, so, love or hate it, that's me. I've learned some lessons though, such as tweeting on Ambien isn't wise." [0] [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/794578375415238656 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/794578375415238656
- tenpies 7y ago
  That's no excuse. This is just another event where Tesla's uninsured Board is demonstrating they did not comply with the SEC's requirement to have a Twitter nanny on Musk. This also should have been released in an 8-K. At this point the SEC may as well cease to exist because it has shown itself to be utterly spineless.
  - pengaru 7y ago
    > That's no excuse. Didn't mean it as one, I'm no Musk apologizer. His erratic behavior is terrible for the company and certainly discourages me from holding TSLA stock much longer than a few hours at a time during positive earnings calls. Presumably I'm not the only one who feels that way.
snowwrestler 7y ago
Musk has said repeatedly that the reason he’s doing Tesla is to help move the country off fossil fuels for transportation, because of global warming. Well, no state has been stronger on this issue than California, who sets fuel efficiency goals that are the most stringent. The same cannot be said of Texas and Nevada; if anything the opposite is true. These are states where people take pride in driving big gas guzzling trucks and the government supports them in that. Everyone loves to complain about how restrictive CA is, but what about when the substance lines up with what one supposedly believes? Why would Musk want Tesla to support Texas over CA? That seems backward unless his goal is the success of Tesla as a business, rather than progress against global warming.
- mitchellgoffpc 7y ago
  The success of Tesla as a business will have far more impact on our progress against global warming than CA’s regulatory goals will. Maybe some don’t see it that way, but I’m quite certain Musk does, and frankly I agree with him.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  If Tesla can execute the plan for getting the country off fossil fuels in Texas, it makes sense to move it to Texas. "Supporting" one state or another is irrelevant to that goal.
- danso 7y ago
  Musk likely believes that Tesla's successful production of cars (and success as a company) is a priority to achieving his long-term environmental goal, regardless of what state benefits from Tesla's employment and tax revenue.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago
  > Why would Musk want Tesla to support Texas over CA? That seems backward unless his goal is the success of Tesla as a business, rather than progress against global warming. Is Tesla can continues to increase sales like they did for almost a decade, then we have a good chance to completely switch the transportation industry from fossil fuel to renewable energy. If Tesla believe they would achieve this faster from TX than CA, then the move is justified because it better serves the mission of the company ("accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy"), not for business success. CA can perfectly continue to push for the energy transition, with or without Tesla.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
Not matter the reasons why he does this, it will be good for the country as a whole if industry spreads out and doesn't concentrate in a few places. It may even be better for the Bay Area in the long run. I hope more companies will do so.
- ntsplnkv2 7y ago
  > doesn't concentrate in a few places. It'd be better too if power didn't concentrate in a few individuals who can't control their twitter accounts.
danso 7y ago
How feasible/practical would it be for Tesla to move its manufacturing "and future programs" out of California, while keeping its software/AI team in the Bay Area?
- MattGaiser 7y ago
  It worked for Boeing /s https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing...
new_realist 7y ago
If Tesla should move manufacturing anywhere, it should be to its idle factory in Buffalo, New York. That won’t happen, though. I expect that more and more Tesla manufacturing will go offshore to China. Especially battery manufacturing.
- misiti3780 7y ago
  Im from buffalo, and I have a feeling it would have a lot of trouble getting tech talent there. also, no one wants to move to buffalo, as im sitting in my living room on may 9th, im looking at a blizzard.
- ntsplnkv2 7y ago
  Is it not possible this will be a cover as he moves more work offshore?
bryanlarsen 7y ago
Tesla isn't allowed to directly sell cars from their showrooms in Texas.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  I'm sure they'll have a hard time finding talent in the 2nd most populous state with a large engineering industry.
yongjik 7y ago
Full text: > Tesla is filing a lawsuit against Alameda County immediately. The unelected & ignorant “Interim Health Officer” of Alameda is acting contrary to the Governor, the President, our Constitutional freedoms & just plain common sense! > Frankly, this is the final straw. Tesla will now move its HQ and future programs to Texas/Nevada immediately. If we even retain Fremont manufacturing activity at all, it will be dependen on how Tesla is treated in the future. Tesla is the last carmaker left in CA. I love how he says "immediately" and "Texas/Nevada" right next to each other. So he's moving right now... except that he didn't decide where?
- dawnerd 7y ago
  They have a facility in Nevada and rumored to already have a location in Texas picked for the next factory so it makes sense to me.
- Rapzid 7y ago
  > Based on current trends, probably close to zero new cases in US too by end of April - Also Musk The chutzpah to call that highly credentialed health official ignorant after making such a claim that was counter to what essentially every epidemiologist in the world was predicting for the USA at the time. I'm seeing some pretty interesting similarities between how Musk is communicating and treating people, and a certain other individual.. We shouldn't be cutting people slack for behaving like this; whoever they are.
beloch 7y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if freshly negotiated financial incentives for Tesla are announced by Texas shortly. Tesla relies pretty heavily on the public purse, and perhaps strings have been tightened too far in California.
firasd 7y ago
Making literal what I suspected: Elon’s ‘Free America’ posturing was about keeping his factory running. All the polls I’ve seen show that less than 20% of people believe everything is safe. The only ‘open up now’ constituency in America (besides political cranks) is people who wouldn’t have to expose themselves to the virus if they had to go back to work or send their kids to school tomorrow.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  I'm sure his employees appreciate being able to work and make salary while their furloughed friends are worried about making ends meet. I know I do. Not everyone believes the overreaction is justified.
nradov 7y ago
The funny thing is, Tesla still isn't legally allowed to sell vehicles in Texas. All sales to Texans are legally structured as out-of-state transactions. Although Texas is generally more business friendly than California it still has some weird restrictions.
- a3n 7y ago
  Never underestimate the power/money/lobbying of legacy auto dealers.
ninetyfurr 7y ago
This inversion has been years in the making. I understand Silicon Valley is quite the Disneyland of tech, but you realize the rest of California is a third world country, and people and companies are fleeing in droves.
ykevinator 7y ago
Plus Texas, come on, guns and prayer, good luck finding talent
- hnburnsy 7y ago
  Ummmm...Austin is in Texas... 'Austin is sometimes referred to as the “Silicon Hills”, mainly due to the large number of technology companies who make their home here. Austin includes 3M, Apple Inc., Hewlett-Packard, Google, Facebook, AMD, Applied Materials, Cirrus Logic, Cisco Systems, eBay/PayPal, Bioware, Blizzard Entertainment, Hoover’s, Intel Corporation, National Instruments, Samsung Group, Silicon Laboratories, Oracle Corporation, Hostgator, and United Devices as some of the top companies with have operations in Central Texas.'
- almost_usual 7y ago
  There is a lot of engineering talent moving to Austin. I know people who have lived in the Bay for over a decade who have moved, they also own homes here. Actually makes sense if the novelty of the Bay has worn off. Rent your home in the Valley to newcomers for passive income, buy another home in Austin and make money on a growing housing market.
omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
Elon had generally had a flair for the dramatic. I feel like being mostly housebound might be wearing in him too. It reminds me a little of the Simpsons take on Howard Hughes. https://youtu.be/FQN8UTLLU0M https://youtu.be/FQN8UTLLU0M
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  I was thinking the role played by Jimmy Dean in Diamonds Are Forever but I guess that was the same vein
inamberclad 7y ago
Bye!
pmcollins 7y ago
This Elon tweet adds context: > San Joaquin County, right next door to Alameda, has been sensible & reasonable, whereas Alameda has been irrational & detached from reality. Our castings foundry and other faculties in San Joaquin have been working 24/7 this entire time with no ill effects. Same with Giga Nevada. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259163638142660618?s=20 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259163638142660618?s=20
dustinmoris 7y ago
Good for humans <> Good for humanity Elon Musk knows and sees the difference, most don’t. That’s my subjective view on this topic.
stevievee 7y ago
Side note: How does this go from front page to Page 5 (Rank 120+) within an hour while having 100+ points and 150+ comments? I'm assuming downvotes and users not interested in the topic but still seems extreme to me.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  I think more comments than points is a negative rank factor on HN. Probably because it unmasks the submission as argument fuel for HNers.
  - stevievee 7y ago
    Interesting, thank you. I know it's "faux pas" to discuss the algorithm but I was just looking for the submission again and noticed this.
yumraj 7y ago
This is just postering, as he's been known to do all the time. I'll believe it when I see it happen.
a3n 7y ago
He already has operations in Nevada. He should just ramp up there, leave California (despite whatever attracted him to be there in the first place), and STFU about it. Who cares?
KKKKkkkk1 7y ago
Apparently freedom-loving Elon likes the Chinese government much better than Alameda County's. Exactly! Tesla knows far more about what needs to be done to be safe through our Tesla China factory experience than an (unelected) interim junior official in Alameda County. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259169882513367040 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259169882513367040 But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-posts-third-consecutive-quarterly-profit-despite-coronavirus-11588193515 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-posts-third-consecutive-q...
- cft 7y ago
  China is freer economically: its economic freedom trajectory is trending up while Bay Area's is trending down. You can also see the growth numbers in both places.
  - tenpies 7y ago
    > China is freer economically Freer economically as long as the Party wants you to be free. Otherwise they'll bankrupt you overnight. I am incredibly curious to see how the Tesla Shanghai project plays out, given some of the extremely favourable clauses that China got out of Musk. I would bet that the factory is not really Tesla's any more within 5 years, and that Tesla Shanghai begins cannibalizing Tesla Proper's sales this year. For reference: money earned by Tesla Shanghai cannot leave China, so every sale they make abroad is money that will be in China for a long while.
- busymom0 7y ago
  I would recommend Elon's recent podcast on Joe Rogan. They have 8000 employees in China and 0 deaths. He knows what he's doing.
  - aguyfromnb 7y ago
    The podcast was boring nonsense. Elon or China claiming things don't make them true.
purplezooey 7y ago
It seems like many formely respectable leaders turn into a mouthpiece for a "certain" side of the political spectrum.
busymom0 7y ago
I would recommend Elon's recent podcast on Joe Rogan. They have 8000 employees in China and 0 deaths. He knows what he's doing. When over 90% of the severe cases and deaths are of very old and pre-existing conditions, it doesn't make sense to keep the younger and mostly unaffected healthy people (usually also the workforce) at home. 66% of New York Hospitalizations Statewide Are From People Sheltering at Home, only 3 percent in New York City had been using public transportation, 96 percent had other underlying health conditions: https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/new-survey-suggests-66--of-all-new-hospitalizations-are-from-people-sheltering-at-home- https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/new-sur... 33% are from nursing homes: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-cases-nursing-homes-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronaviru...
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  8,000 people is too small of a sample size to say what they did was repeatable or significant. Also notable is that Fremont, California is not similar to China in that they do not have the same draconian lockdown policy. You cannot have employees coming and going to the factory because when they are not at the factory, you have no control over where they go. In China, you have more control and more policy to support this limitation of personal autonomy.
joshlittle 7y ago
Elon, enjoy Texas (or Nevada...) Hope it goes well for you. Tip: Don't tell them you are a California transplant. I'd personally consider Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, or Ontario; they're much more supportive of the auto industry - and ample manufacturing and tooling expertise resides there. With lots of soon to be idled property next to Warm Springs BART & near the Dumbarton, 237, 580, 680; time to build more housing.
mlindner 7y ago
Glad to hear this. California has been in a thorn in Tesla's side for quite some time with their repeated slowdowns of factory expansion, various legal disputes for laws that only exist in California, and also the very high salaries and wages that are needed to run in California. This will help make Tesla vehicles cheaper as well by reducing labor costs. Also every time I hear about a company leaving California, it makes me happy, and I work in California.
tomohawk 7y ago
If the idea is to maintain lockdown policies until a vaccine is available, then now is the ideal time to move. The downside is less. It seems likely that these kinds of pressures will limit the viability of maintaining a lockdown for long.
SrslyJosh 7y ago
In other Musk news, apparently human language will be obsolete in about five years. How anyone take this guy seriously? Look at the things his followers on twitter write. It sounds like a cult.
clouddrover 7y ago
An article with more context than a one sided tweet: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon-musk-tesla-california.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon...
pl0x 7y ago
Elon is becoming more and more of a conspiracy right wing nut.
seesawtron 7y ago
Can anyone explain to me what are the arguments as to why would CA state govt. keep companies like Tesla or others from reopening? What does the govt. has to gain from this lockdown of industries?

149 points by edward 7y ago

I honestly don't know what to think of this. Can Elon even make unilateral and rash decisions like this? I know Tesla is hurting right now due to the forced shutdowns of manufacturing, but so are all the other OEMs - why is Elon trying to hard to sidestep restrictions?

rio517 7y ago
Seems like is is trying to get same restrictions as other places in California. And elsewhere.
kitotik 7y ago
Ummm, money?
bilbo0s 7y ago
>Can Elon even make unilateral and rash decisions like this? Investors almost certainly knew what they were signing up for, so, "yes" would be the answer. How Tesla ends is not yet written, but even enterprises with steady, conservative hands on the reins have sputtered.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jariel 7y ago
1) His factory cannot get moving, due to restrictions, he's using a populist platform to make sure people know it's not his fault, and to put pressure on the county. 2) He's using Twitter a little bit like Trump - saying somewhat inflammatory things, tapping into an emotional vein, possibly garnering support from fanboys, making noise. Twitter it seems, is a place where statements don't have to be fully true or real. It's like an 'emotional landscape' where people can push the buttons of the masses and get away with it. A lot of people in the investor class right now are upset their stocks are falling, they see the pandemic is not as bad as predicted and they want everyone back to work. Many working people feel similarly. But a larger group of people, especially those in difficult conditions, are rightly afraid; the 'meatpacking plants' in various places have had huge covid outbreaks and some deaths, in Canada it's been a serious source of outbreak. There's no reason to believe it won't be the same anywhere else. But Elon is missing something in his rants: if and when the factory does startup, there will be a COVID outbreak on some level and there is a very high chance that a Tesla employee somewhere, somehow will die from COVID. Now it may not be 'his fault' but it won't matter. If Elon is seeing as being unsympathetic and not concerned about his staff - and - someone dies from Covid (one way or another, possibly not even really related to his policy) - then it could blow up and backfire on him in an existential way. CNN: "Elon Musk forces people back to work; 2 dead from Covid" - is the kind of stain that does not come off. Elon needs to spend a lot more time publicly demonstrating empathy and showing materially how he is working protecting his workers.
- photoGrant 7y ago
  I’m shocked you’re downvoted as you have a level headed opinion that doesn’t polarise and pick objectives. It’s the problem not seen
- ac29 7y ago
  > A lot of people in the investor class right now are upset their stocks are falling I'm not sure this is entirely true - stocks are worth more than they were last June, way before this crisis started and have trended up over the past month. Maybe this will still be true in 6 months or a year, maybe not - its far too early to say. If anything, it seems the "investor class" thinks there are bargains to be had right now.
  - jariel 7y ago
    Almost everyone lost out, and so they are down from the peak, so the bargains are neutral, or rather, they don't have the excess cash for them. Very few had the wherewithal to time it right. But culturally, the business world has an innate paternalistic industriousness. They want to 'get things moving' on a much deeper level. Musk is saying what most business leaders are thinking, right or wrong.
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      The Nasdaq is up for the year. Everybody panicked around March 13th, and the market bottom appears to have been within a week of that. It's been nearly straight up from there. I don't know if Wall Street was right yet, but that was its verdict. Now, it's true that my IRA is down a little, but I'm not really "the investor class". You say "very few had the wherewithal to time it right", but I'd question that, because all it took, in principle, was doing nothing. Not possible for everyone who's unemployed, for instance, but not something that takes large amounts of brains or capital.
    - ac29 6y ago
      > Almost everyone lost out Yeah, this just isnt true. Every dollar put into the market a year ago has increased in value (broadly speaking, individual investments obviously vary). Being "down from the peak" doesnt matter, what matters is where you are compared to cash (aka, not investing).
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
The problem here is that the restrictions have been broadly lifted by California and many other states, but Bay Area counties have stricter rules that still forbid manufacturing.
- tenpies 7y ago
  And keep in mind that the State added a "Psychopath CEO wants to endanger workers to pump the stock price" clause after Musk's refusal to comply back in March when he tried to claim this same argument: > Nothing in this Order shall be construed to limit the existing authority of local health officers to establish and implement public health measures within their respective jurisdictions that are more restrictive than, or that otherwise exist in addition to, the public health measures imposed on a statewide basis pursuant to the statewide directives of the State Public Health Officer. From: https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/5.4.20-EO-N-60-20-text.pdf https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/5.4.20-EO-... There is literally no problem other than Musk is clearly lying about Tesla's liquidity and is desperate enough that he needs to produce cars this week. I mean he claims there was $8 BB in cash but is getting loans from China and refusing to pay rents. Something doesn't add up. I'm super curious how this unfolds, especially if he thinks California is up and is now opening a factory in Germany. The meltdown's we'll get from his efforts in Germany are going to be just pure insanity.
Animats 7y ago
Can Elon even make unilateral and rash decisions like this? Probably not. He's not chairman of the board. Robyn M. Denholm is. The board has some strong figures on it, including Larry Ellison and James Murdoch.
BurningFrog 7y ago
Normally you'd assume he's anchored this with his Board before announcing this. Thought with Elon, who knows :)
mlindner 7y ago
https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/gm-plans-resume-production-may-18-majority-na-operations https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/gm-plans-resume-produ... GM is also restarting operations.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  May 18th, the exact date Alameda County was going to allow Tesla to open until Musk had another hissy fit.
  - Rapzid 7y ago
    Apparently Alameda County was already working/planning on having Tesla resume operations on May 18th as well. But Musk had a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that they had different rules in place than the State(which listed manufacturing as resuming on the 18th prior) and, as he often does, made the situation worse by his rash instincts. It's clear his current instincts, or at least under certain mental states prone to shifting, is that Tesla knows better than Alameda County. Who are they to doubt Tesla's amazing back-to-work plan that worked in China?! Except Musk and Tesla are not in charge of public health. They are not elected officials that are on the line for ensuring a Tesla outbreak doesn't spread to the rest of the county/public. It takes time to for the government to vet plans and coordinate this stuff. The tweet was unnecessary.

downerending 7y ago

This is being couched as a spat over the lockdown versus Tesla production, but I wonder if it's not part of a larger picture, which is that the Bay Area has become a harder and harder place to do business, because of economic realities. It'd be nice to see technical work spread away from the hotspots and across America. Concentrating it in a few places makes for a surprisingly miserable existence.

azinman2 7y ago
It also enables free moving of talent between companies that only further allows great companies to be built. It’s very hard to build a high-tech company in Tulsa, say, if the total numbers of available superstars are low. Tesla building HQ in Silicon Valley enabled it to get types of people he never would have otherwise. Few are leaving Google to go to GM, for example.
- ec109685 7y ago
  Assuming remote work doesn’t become the new normal.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  A lot of those superstars would love to get out of California if they would get the same salary in absolute amount. Usually companies make the mistake of ,,adjusting for cost of living'', and then of course they will find most talent in the most expensive cities.
  - stu2b50 7y ago
    I disagree, I think people underestimate the social cost of uprooting your life, leaving all of your friends and families, and moving into an area that often has beliefs counter to your own There's already examples. Epic will pay you top tech level salaries in the middle of nowhere, where you can live like a king. Superstars seem to be staying put.
    - mrep 7y ago

uberman 7y ago

From the tweets manipulating stock prices to the name of his kid, claims of forsaking possessions, false claims about constitutional guarantees of limitless freedom, to the flagrant disregard for the health and safety of his employees, I can't help but wonder if Musk has had some medical event that is imparing his cognition. He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity but these days he just seems like the typical angry CEO looking to manipulate things to his advantage.

vulcan01 7y ago
Didn't he say that he doesn't get enough sleep [1]? That may be the "medical event"... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-sleep-deprivation-damage-2018-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-sleep-deprivation-...
- dkersten 7y ago
  Given the effects of my own stints with way too little sleep over long periods of time, I would say yes. Not getting enough sleep really does mess with your brain.
A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
I don't want to simplify it too much, but there is a lot money on the line. And after that, there is legacy to think of. Humanity takes a back seat to those two.
dr_dshiv 7y ago
Another way to look at it is that the world has gotten crazier than Elon. > false claims about constitutional guarantees of limitless freedom I don't know that i saw that tweet. Was this referring to first amendment freedom of assembly?
seibelj 7y ago
He's a billionaire and doesn't give a fuck, he's living his life exactly the way he wants to - "Life is Art" - and enjoys being a kooky public figure. He just doesn't care what you or anyone thinks.

botolo 7y ago

After recent statements, I am surprised that the board has not decided to remove him, immediately.

stefan_ 7y ago
They can't, he has enough equity to veto all and any board decisions.
- mlindner 7y ago
  He doesn't. He only owns 20% or so of the company.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Yes, but the voting is set up to need a super majority. Basically, nothing can pass without his votes.
jdross 7y ago
On what grounds? You don't like how he tweets? He has built a $150 billion company from the ground up, is 5-7 years ahead of his competitors, in a sector where it is nearly impossible to survive. The company has dramatically accelerated the shift to electric vehicles. You don't like him? Don't follow him on twitter or buy the stock or products. Otherwise, he seems not to dissimilar from most neuro-atypical founders I know
- dr_dshiv 7y ago
  > He has built a $150 billion company from the ground up, is 5-7 years ahead of his competitors, in a sector where it is nearly impossible to survive. Yeah, but what has he done lately? Also, his tweets.
  - lazyjones 7y ago
    > but what has he done lately Um... He won a contract to carry astronauts to the moon?

dkdk8283 7y ago

I agree with Elon here, many California policies are over the top and it seems more laws, taxes, and other restrictions are constantly popping up. The bay area has always been a hotspot for radical activism. I lived in CA for awhile and couldn’t take it, so I left.

dr_dshiv 7y ago
Couldn't handle the freedom, I'm guessing? Edit: Americans think they have a lot of freedom. It's funny. You'd think the fact you can't drink a beer on a park bench would indicate otherwise, but hey.
- dang 7y ago
  Please keep nationalistic flamebait off HN. We have enough problems with thread quality without that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dr_dshiv 7y ago
    Agree and apologies. Thank you.
seibelj 7y ago
I live in Massachusetts, and we actually have fairly low taxes given the level of progressive politics, plus a Republican governor. There are active and organized groups that oppose the wacky "tax and regulate everything to death" types. Maybe California will become so unworkable and impossible to business in that it is forced to reform.
- jedberg 7y ago
  California had republican governors for a long time as well as a strong republican minority in the state legislature. But now the Dems have a supermajority in the legislature and a democratic governor so there is no longer a check on the wackiest policies. Plus the fact that we’ve always had state propositions that come direct from the people, a system now being efficiently abused by special interests. The number of ridiculous propositions has gone way up, and most people vote just based on the title. It’ll be interesting to see if there is a course correction in the next few elections.

bambax 7y ago

He mentions "the President" like if he wasn't a dimwit who advises drinking bleach... Tesla should move its HQ to Mars.

fourstar 7y ago
You got a source to back up where exactly he "advised" to drink bleach?
- VyperCard 7y ago
  Do you mean that sarcastically or?
- dave5104 7y ago
  > The frantic reaction was prompted by President Trump’s suggestion on Thursday at a White House briefing that an “injection inside” the human body with a disinfectant like bleach or isopropyl alcohol could help combat the virus. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/politics/trump-inject-disinfectant-bleach-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/politics/trump-inject-...
  - chippy 7y ago
    thats far too sensible to have an upvote
  - refurb 7y ago
    The exact quote, from your link. “One minute,” the president said. “And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.” Saying that Trump suggested people "should drink bleach" is not an accurate summary of that statement at all. It would be more fair to characterize that as "Trump asks if disinfectants could be used to treat Coronavirus".
    - dave5104 7y ago

Fjolsvith 7y ago

I don't blame them. The Top Four Reasons California Is Unsustainable: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the-top-four-reasons-california-is-unsustainable/#5bce3bb3a239 https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the... And I don't see it has improved.

jdhn 7y ago

1. I wonder if he'll actually do this, or if this is brinkmanship to extract some concessions from Cali. 2. If he really does do this, I would assume that he would move into the Reno/Carson City area because that's where the factory is. If this is the case, then he really needs to throw his weight around to loosen restrictions on building new residential housing in the area, whether than takes the form of fewer parking spaces per building, reducing the amount of setbacks, or both. Both rent and housing are very expensive there.

jbreiding 7y ago
#1 seemed to work for Amazon didn't it? Sure it put some of the way they do business under a micro scope, or unneeded attention. But musk seems to not care too much about the attention.

dekhn 7y ago

I normally flag every HN article about an Elon tweet, but as this is directly related to business of a tech-oriented company, I think it actually qualifies as "hacker news" not "inane spewing of nonsense". Also, if he thinks that any judges will side with him against health authorities making decisions on the basis of reasonable scientific evidence (which is what CA is doing), I think he's mistaken. However, and I think there's a big however here- I think Elon has been making friends with Trump and hopes that Trump will lend him some support here.

slg 7y ago

It is getting harder and harder to be a fan of Tesla when Musk is out here routinely saying ridiculous shit. I genuinely like their cars and their mission, but this guy is just unhinged.

akmarinov 7y ago
Same here. Their cars look great but he’s so volatile and out of touch that it’s off putting and makes me wonder whether buying a vehicle of theirs for him to run things into the ground one day out of nowhere is a good idea.
natch 7y ago
Did you hear about how many Tesla employees in China died of the virus after they resumed production? Insane, right?
- busymom0 7y ago
  For those wondering - I would recommend Elon's recent podcast on Joe Rogan. They have 8000 employees in China and 0 deaths. He knows what he's doing.
  - dmode 7y ago
    China also claimed they had only 5k deaths
    - busymom0 7y ago
      Like I said in my comment, listen to what he actually says in the podcast before making judgement. He specifically says he knows a lot of people who got infected but Tesla had 0 deaths in China from 8000 employees and he knows it because he does payroll.
    - natch 7y ago
      State run media has no bearing whatsoever on what an employer knows about its employees.

GaryNumanVevo 7y ago

I remember a long time ago, the Hollywood moguls threatened to pick up and move out when California was getting more socially liberal, look who’s still here 100 years later

luckylion 7y ago
The socially liberal Hollywood moguls? So in a hundred years, it will be Tesla that's still in California, only then they will advocate to shut down their factories indefinitely?

pengaru 7y ago

Ambien. after being asked whether he writes his own tweets: "I'm the only author, so, love or hate it, that's me. I've learned some lessons though, such as tweeting on Ambien isn't wise." [0] [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/794578375415238656 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/794578375415238656

tenpies 7y ago
That's no excuse. This is just another event where Tesla's uninsured Board is demonstrating they did not comply with the SEC's requirement to have a Twitter nanny on Musk. This also should have been released in an 8-K. At this point the SEC may as well cease to exist because it has shown itself to be utterly spineless.
- pengaru 7y ago
  > That's no excuse. Didn't mean it as one, I'm no Musk apologizer. His erratic behavior is terrible for the company and certainly discourages me from holding TSLA stock much longer than a few hours at a time during positive earnings calls. Presumably I'm not the only one who feels that way.

snowwrestler 7y ago

Musk has said repeatedly that the reason he’s doing Tesla is to help move the country off fossil fuels for transportation, because of global warming. Well, no state has been stronger on this issue than California, who sets fuel efficiency goals that are the most stringent. The same cannot be said of Texas and Nevada; if anything the opposite is true. These are states where people take pride in driving big gas guzzling trucks and the government supports them in that. Everyone loves to complain about how restrictive CA is, but what about when the substance lines up with what one supposedly believes? Why would Musk want Tesla to support Texas over CA? That seems backward unless his goal is the success of Tesla as a business, rather than progress against global warming.

mitchellgoffpc 7y ago
The success of Tesla as a business will have far more impact on our progress against global warming than CA’s regulatory goals will. Maybe some don’t see it that way, but I’m quite certain Musk does, and frankly I agree with him.
BurningFrog 7y ago
If Tesla can execute the plan for getting the country off fossil fuels in Texas, it makes sense to move it to Texas. "Supporting" one state or another is irrelevant to that goal.
danso 7y ago
Musk likely believes that Tesla's successful production of cars (and success as a company) is a priority to achieving his long-term environmental goal, regardless of what state benefits from Tesla's employment and tax revenue.
rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago
> Why would Musk want Tesla to support Texas over CA? That seems backward unless his goal is the success of Tesla as a business, rather than progress against global warming. Is Tesla can continues to increase sales like they did for almost a decade, then we have a good chance to completely switch the transportation industry from fossil fuel to renewable energy. If Tesla believe they would achieve this faster from TX than CA, then the move is justified because it better serves the mission of the company ("accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy"), not for business success. CA can perfectly continue to push for the energy transition, with or without Tesla.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

Not matter the reasons why he does this, it will be good for the country as a whole if industry spreads out and doesn't concentrate in a few places. It may even be better for the Bay Area in the long run. I hope more companies will do so.

ntsplnkv2 7y ago
> doesn't concentrate in a few places. It'd be better too if power didn't concentrate in a few individuals who can't control their twitter accounts.

danso 7y ago

How feasible/practical would it be for Tesla to move its manufacturing "and future programs" out of California, while keeping its software/AI team in the Bay Area?

MattGaiser 7y ago
It worked for Boeing /s https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing-lost-its-bearings/602188/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/how-boeing...

new_realist 7y ago

If Tesla should move manufacturing anywhere, it should be to its idle factory in Buffalo, New York. That won’t happen, though. I expect that more and more Tesla manufacturing will go offshore to China. Especially battery manufacturing.

misiti3780 7y ago
Im from buffalo, and I have a feeling it would have a lot of trouble getting tech talent there. also, no one wants to move to buffalo, as im sitting in my living room on may 9th, im looking at a blizzard.
ntsplnkv2 7y ago
Is it not possible this will be a cover as he moves more work offshore?

bryanlarsen 7y ago

Tesla isn't allowed to directly sell cars from their showrooms in Texas.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
I'm sure they'll have a hard time finding talent in the 2nd most populous state with a large engineering industry.

yongjik 7y ago

Full text: > Tesla is filing a lawsuit against Alameda County immediately. The unelected & ignorant “Interim Health Officer” of Alameda is acting contrary to the Governor, the President, our Constitutional freedoms & just plain common sense! > Frankly, this is the final straw. Tesla will now move its HQ and future programs to Texas/Nevada immediately. If we even retain Fremont manufacturing activity at all, it will be dependen on how Tesla is treated in the future. Tesla is the last carmaker left in CA. I love how he says "immediately" and "Texas/Nevada" right next to each other. So he's moving right now... except that he didn't decide where?

dawnerd 7y ago
They have a facility in Nevada and rumored to already have a location in Texas picked for the next factory so it makes sense to me.
Rapzid 7y ago
> Based on current trends, probably close to zero new cases in US too by end of April - Also Musk The chutzpah to call that highly credentialed health official ignorant after making such a claim that was counter to what essentially every epidemiologist in the world was predicting for the USA at the time. I'm seeing some pretty interesting similarities between how Musk is communicating and treating people, and a certain other individual.. We shouldn't be cutting people slack for behaving like this; whoever they are.

beloch 7y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if freshly negotiated financial incentives for Tesla are announced by Texas shortly. Tesla relies pretty heavily on the public purse, and perhaps strings have been tightened too far in California.

firasd 7y ago

Making literal what I suspected: Elon’s ‘Free America’ posturing was about keeping his factory running. All the polls I’ve seen show that less than 20% of people believe everything is safe. The only ‘open up now’ constituency in America (besides political cranks) is people who wouldn’t have to expose themselves to the virus if they had to go back to work or send their kids to school tomorrow.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
I'm sure his employees appreciate being able to work and make salary while their furloughed friends are worried about making ends meet. I know I do. Not everyone believes the overreaction is justified.

nradov 7y ago

The funny thing is, Tesla still isn't legally allowed to sell vehicles in Texas. All sales to Texans are legally structured as out-of-state transactions. Although Texas is generally more business friendly than California it still has some weird restrictions.

a3n 7y ago
Never underestimate the power/money/lobbying of legacy auto dealers.

ninetyfurr 7y ago

This inversion has been years in the making. I understand Silicon Valley is quite the Disneyland of tech, but you realize the rest of California is a third world country, and people and companies are fleeing in droves.

ykevinator 7y ago

Plus Texas, come on, guns and prayer, good luck finding talent

hnburnsy 7y ago
Ummmm...Austin is in Texas... 'Austin is sometimes referred to as the “Silicon Hills”, mainly due to the large number of technology companies who make their home here. Austin includes 3M, Apple Inc., Hewlett-Packard, Google, Facebook, AMD, Applied Materials, Cirrus Logic, Cisco Systems, eBay/PayPal, Bioware, Blizzard Entertainment, Hoover’s, Intel Corporation, National Instruments, Samsung Group, Silicon Laboratories, Oracle Corporation, Hostgator, and United Devices as some of the top companies with have operations in Central Texas.'
almost_usual 7y ago
There is a lot of engineering talent moving to Austin. I know people who have lived in the Bay for over a decade who have moved, they also own homes here. Actually makes sense if the novelty of the Bay has worn off. Rent your home in the Valley to newcomers for passive income, buy another home in Austin and make money on a growing housing market.

omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago

Elon had generally had a flair for the dramatic. I feel like being mostly housebound might be wearing in him too. It reminds me a little of the Simpsons take on Howard Hughes. https://youtu.be/FQN8UTLLU0M https://youtu.be/FQN8UTLLU0M

selimthegrim 7y ago
I was thinking the role played by Jimmy Dean in Diamonds Are Forever but I guess that was the same vein

inamberclad 7y ago

Bye!

pmcollins 7y ago

This Elon tweet adds context: > San Joaquin County, right next door to Alameda, has been sensible & reasonable, whereas Alameda has been irrational & detached from reality. Our castings foundry and other faculties in San Joaquin have been working 24/7 this entire time with no ill effects. Same with Giga Nevada. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259163638142660618?s=20 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259163638142660618?s=20

dustinmoris 7y ago

Good for humans <> Good for humanity Elon Musk knows and sees the difference, most don’t. That’s my subjective view on this topic.

stevievee 7y ago

Side note: How does this go from front page to Page 5 (Rank 120+) within an hour while having 100+ points and 150+ comments? I'm assuming downvotes and users not interested in the topic but still seems extreme to me.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
I think more comments than points is a negative rank factor on HN. Probably because it unmasks the submission as argument fuel for HNers.
- stevievee 7y ago
  Interesting, thank you. I know it's "faux pas" to discuss the algorithm but I was just looking for the submission again and noticed this.

yumraj 7y ago

This is just postering, as he's been known to do all the time. I'll believe it when I see it happen.

a3n 7y ago

He already has operations in Nevada. He should just ramp up there, leave California (despite whatever attracted him to be there in the first place), and STFU about it. Who cares?

KKKKkkkk1 7y ago

Apparently freedom-loving Elon likes the Chinese government much better than Alameda County's. Exactly! Tesla knows far more about what needs to be done to be safe through our Tesla China factory experience than an (unelected) interim junior official in Alameda County. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259169882513367040 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259169882513367040 But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-posts-third-consecutive-quarterly-profit-despite-coronavirus-11588193515 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-posts-third-consecutive-q...

cft 7y ago
China is freer economically: its economic freedom trajectory is trending up while Bay Area's is trending down. You can also see the growth numbers in both places.
- tenpies 7y ago
  > China is freer economically Freer economically as long as the Party wants you to be free. Otherwise they'll bankrupt you overnight. I am incredibly curious to see how the Tesla Shanghai project plays out, given some of the extremely favourable clauses that China got out of Musk. I would bet that the factory is not really Tesla's any more within 5 years, and that Tesla Shanghai begins cannibalizing Tesla Proper's sales this year. For reference: money earned by Tesla Shanghai cannot leave China, so every sale they make abroad is money that will be in China for a long while.
busymom0 7y ago
I would recommend Elon's recent podcast on Joe Rogan. They have 8000 employees in China and 0 deaths. He knows what he's doing.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  The podcast was boring nonsense. Elon or China claiming things don't make them true.

purplezooey 7y ago

It seems like many formely respectable leaders turn into a mouthpiece for a "certain" side of the political spectrum.

busymom0 7y ago

I would recommend Elon's recent podcast on Joe Rogan. They have 8000 employees in China and 0 deaths. He knows what he's doing. When over 90% of the severe cases and deaths are of very old and pre-existing conditions, it doesn't make sense to keep the younger and mostly unaffected healthy people (usually also the workforce) at home. 66% of New York Hospitalizations Statewide Are From People Sheltering at Home, only 3 percent in New York City had been using public transportation, 96 percent had other underlying health conditions: https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/new-survey-suggests-66--of-all-new-hospitalizations-are-from-people-sheltering-at-home- https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/new-sur... 33% are from nursing homes: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronavirus-cases-nursing-homes-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/09/us/coronaviru...

birdyrooster 7y ago
8,000 people is too small of a sample size to say what they did was repeatable or significant. Also notable is that Fremont, California is not similar to China in that they do not have the same draconian lockdown policy. You cannot have employees coming and going to the factory because when they are not at the factory, you have no control over where they go. In China, you have more control and more policy to support this limitation of personal autonomy.

joshlittle 7y ago

Elon, enjoy Texas (or Nevada...) Hope it goes well for you. Tip: Don't tell them you are a California transplant. I'd personally consider Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, or Ontario; they're much more supportive of the auto industry - and ample manufacturing and tooling expertise resides there. With lots of soon to be idled property next to Warm Springs BART & near the Dumbarton, 237, 580, 680; time to build more housing.

mlindner 7y ago

Glad to hear this. California has been in a thorn in Tesla's side for quite some time with their repeated slowdowns of factory expansion, various legal disputes for laws that only exist in California, and also the very high salaries and wages that are needed to run in California. This will help make Tesla vehicles cheaper as well by reducing labor costs. Also every time I hear about a company leaving California, it makes me happy, and I work in California.

tomohawk 7y ago

If the idea is to maintain lockdown policies until a vaccine is available, then now is the ideal time to move. The downside is less. It seems likely that these kinds of pressures will limit the viability of maintaining a lockdown for long.

SrslyJosh 7y ago

In other Musk news, apparently human language will be obsolete in about five years. How anyone take this guy seriously? Look at the things his followers on twitter write. It sounds like a cult.

clouddrover 7y ago

An article with more context than a one sided tweet: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon-musk-tesla-california.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/business/coronavirus-elon...

pl0x 7y ago

Elon is becoming more and more of a conspiracy right wing nut.

seesawtron 7y ago

Can anyone explain to me what are the arguments as to why would CA state govt. keep companies like Tesla or others from reopening? What does the govt. has to gain from this lockdown of industries?