26 ms·

Army Corps of Engineers to Build Temporary Hospitals in NY

416 points by antoncohen 7y ago

jawns 7y ago
I am very curious about the "technical issue" that is preventing NY from receiving aid in the relief bill.
- trothamel 7y ago
  https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/loophole-in-feds-relief-bill-means-new-york-misses-out-on-6b-coronavirus-aid-package.html https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/loophole-in-fed... Apparently, it prevents states from making changes to Medicaid this year, but NY already did.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
    Honestly, if this goes through, New York should just bus people to the closest states that got the coronavirus bill money. This should ensure that people get the proper care and definitely won't cause large amounts of spreading outside of New Tork.
    - bilbo0s 7y ago
      I know I may sound naive asking this, but wouldn't it just be easier to change the Bill? If the bill doesn't help New York, what good is it? It should provide Coronavirus relief for everyone in the nation who needs it. But I'm not a political type, so if I'm thinking about this wrong I'm open to being corrected.
      - WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
        This didn't just happen... someone wanted to screw one of those liberal states in this democrat hoax...
        bilbo0s 7y ago
        If that be the case, I mean, yeah, just, no words. I'm disappointed I guess. I've always had limited faith and political and economic leaders, but this crisis has really just cratered the little faith I did have. Let's screw the liberal states? Let's make a few bucks on the stock market? Just, wow. Can't even be angry really, I don't deserve any better. In a democracy, you get exactly the leaders you are deserving of. I guess I know how much we rate. Lesson learned.
        Ericson2314 7y ago
        Also keep in mind the proposed $1000 check has a salary minimum in order to qualify, not just salary maximum. I suppose the poor cannot vote you out if they are dead.
        bilbo0s 7y ago
        Wow. Didn't know that either. Just, yeah. To not only do all the stuff that our politicians, of every political stripe, are doing, but then to screw over the poor at a time like this as well? I think I'm done here for the day. I'm pretty sure I don't want to know anything more about what the politicians are doing.
        WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
        Yeah, $75,000 maximum, $18,000 minimum... If you make $75,000 in New York, you're probably homeless... but in the red states that's fuck you money.
        briandear 7y ago
        If you aren’t making money before the disaster, why should you get a check to compensate for a salary you aren’t losing?
        WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
        Because the kind of people who are in that bracket will spend it...
      - lonelappde 7y ago
        New York votes for Democrats. Making them suffer and look bad is part of Trump's campaign.
- blackguardx 7y ago
  Cuomo addressed this in the press conference. I believe it relates to Medicaid. New York modified some Medicaid rules in January and the relief bill won't grant money to states with modified Medicaid rules. He didn't get into specifics, but said that the bill needed to be updated.
- danielfoster 7y ago
  I am as well, but overall I’m very frustrated by the lack of coordination and leadership overall. This combined with de Blasio’s proven inability to lead is making the situation much worse than it needs to be.
  - ntsplnkv2 7y ago
    This is a pandemic. Across country and state lines. Any response that is not federal is going to struggle. The buck stops solely at the white house and congress for failing to see the warning signs and properly respond.
    - pmorici 7y ago
      I think they saw the warning signs. [0] [0] https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/03/burr-unloaded-stocks-before-coronavirus/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/03/burr-unloaded-stock...
    - m0zg 7y ago
      Cuomo OTOH has been quite effective at working with the administration to ramp up testing to the highest throughput in the nation, as well as enacting other measures, and getting FEMA involved, while DeBlasio's response was pretty much only to point out that "orange man bad", and dragging his staff around with him to infected areas. As of 2 days ago, he went to the _gym_. If you listen to WH pressers, you will see that federal government wants the governors to do what they can to procure stuff and enact measures for their states, and step in when the governors feel their response will be inadequate. Which is what we're observing in CA and NY as the governors of those states chose to put politics aside for the time being and actually engage. The reason for delegating frontline response to the states is that if the federal government steps in to buy medical supplies for example (which BTW it still does from time to time - they ordered $500M worth of N95 masks yesterday), such a purchase would first soak up available capacity, and then it'd have to be disbursed to the states, instead of going to them directly, adding delay and confusion. FWIW, I have not seen this level of coordinated response to _anything_ and I've been in the US for 20 years now. I did not know some of the things that are being done are even possible. FEMA and Army Corps of Engineers started to step in massively over the past week. Companies are starting to make ventilators. Drugs and testing equipment are approved for use in weeks instead of years. The list goes on.
deng 7y ago
According to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ the NY numbers have more than doubled today (from ~10k to ~22k). What is happening? Are some belated test results coming in? EDIT: Numbers were just corrected, are now at total ~16k with ~5k new cases. Still high growth, but more reasonable.
- sesutton 7y ago
  New York state has been increasing testing pretty rapidly. A few days ago they were at 10,000 a day.
- ardit33 7y ago
  They started testing in mass the last couple of days, so you see the spike...
- roskilli 7y ago
  New York is now testing more daily per-capita than South Korea and China, so naturally due to the higher test rate (which gives ability to find the clusters) New York is going to pull ahead of the rest of the country because it will have the ability to actually show the cases that are active but weren't able to be tested.
- laurentlb 7y ago
  I think there was a typo. Earlier this day, NY had +5k. Then it went to +12,345 (which looked like a suspicious number to me). And now, the number is back to +5,429. It's still growing fast though.
- cm2187 7y ago
  I think generally the case numbers reflect more how much testing is being made in the country than how many people are infected. I think I got infected, called a relative of mine who is a doctor and followed UK guidelines which is to self isolate. So I appear in no statistics whatsoever. As the vast majority of people with none or mild symptoms. I think you can pretty much ditch the official case numbers as meaningless.
- 7y ago
systemvoltage 7y ago
I very much admire Gov Cuomo - he is perfectly straight forward in his approach, putting aside partisanship and truly care about his state and the New York City. I encourage everyone to watch his updates to see for yourself. We need more leaders like him. In his presentation, he is telling how to run the Federal goverment and recommendations - which just illustrates the competance of the executive branch of the US Govt. Same thing with Gov Newsom of California. Latest update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlZeKTlpcqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlZeKTlpcqU
- untog 7y ago
  This article sums up the feelings of many New Yorkers, myself included: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/business/media/cuomo-new-york-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/business/media/cuomo-new-... In normal times he is utterly infuriating and represents some of the worst qualities you see in a politician. In a crisis... well, you need a solid pair of hands and a leader capable of making big decisions effectively. And he is definitely that.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Churchill was the same way. Great wartime leader. Rubbish in peacetime.
  - Eric_WVGG 7y ago
    Seconded. I can’t stand the guy, but contrast his leadership to that of our Mayor and he comes out looking like a hero.
  - Ericson2314 7y ago
    I am not ready to change my assessment of him. There were ample situations in in "peace time" for him to push harder but he didn't. DeBlasio may be more inept, but Cuomo only pushes things hard after they become very popular. That's still not leadership.
soared 7y ago
> The Army Corps is expected to immediately begin work to construct the [four] temporary hospitals. The Governor is also requesting FEMA designate four field hospitals NY is creating EIGHT temporary hospitals total. I can't imagine the logistics, staffing, materials, etc. A few days ago I wasn't terribly concerned, but it continues to look worse and worse for the US.
- rb808 7y ago
  from the article: > The Governor is also requesting FEMA designate four field hospitals with 250 beds each for the state, intended for use in the Javits Center in addition to the temporary hospital to be constructed by the Army Corps. I think putting 1000 beds in a conference centre sounds a lot less dramatic than 4 new hospitals.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    I wonder why Wuhan authorities opted for new construction over using available spaces that surely must exist in a 10M city when everything is shut down?
    - posix_me_less 7y ago
      Available spaces were most probably not fit to serve as hospital for airborne infectious disease. Water/air ducts, isolation rooms, medical equipment and so on.
    - nashashmi 7y ago
      Wuhan wanted to put the hospital away from city center. And did not want to contaminate existing spaces. In NYC, there is very little space for something new. And the existing structures are poor locations for actual hospitals. If the economy is going to be down for a while, might as well use a public space that is shut down for that purpose.
    - subroutine 7y ago
      Perhaps it was to enlist the unemployed. Lots of people losing jobs because of the epidemic + need for hospitals to mitigate epidemic effects = build hospitals?
MiguelVieira 7y ago
This blog post covers the math of why this is necessary https://medium.com/@donnellymjd/covid-19-nyc-should-brace-for-impact-and-shut-down-now-a7c62afac81e https://medium.com/@donnellymjd/covid-19-nyc-should-brace-fo...
magwa101 7y ago
Wow, ok, finally.
Waterluvian 7y ago
As an onlooker I feel like once America awakens to a crisis it is impressive to watch. I mean this kind of should have happened weeks ago, and the executive branch is a bit of a panicked joke. But I mean... You've got this colossal capacity to deploy field hospitals and hospital ships and such and ramp up capacity. Terrible hurricane? Show up with a massive floating power plant and water treatment facility plus air logistics. And I think one of the strongest virtues of the United States is being proven by Trump: the incredible power of leadership at all levels of government. In the absence of a leader at the top you've got senators and congresspersons and governors and mayors and CEOs all getting shit done. This is all an incredible (but regrettable) exercise of numerous fail safes inherent in the American system.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  > Terrible hurricane? Show up with a massive floating power plant and water treatment facility plus air logistics. The US has a disastrous recent history of failing to respond to multipld hurricanes with adequate support, from Katrina to Maria.
  - nimbius 7y ago
    >the incredible power of leadership at all levels of government. anyone remember when Mike Pence actually created an HIV epidemic in his state by ignoring the CDC in favour of prayer? :) or when Trump recommended mixing two tentatively researched drugs to combat COVID-19 that could induce fatal arrhythmia? Or Hurricane Katrina? when Bush basically sat on his hands while nearly 2000 people died? C-level leadership is dog-earing their pockets and preparing to shill the government for bailouts, despite buybacks and record profits. Companies like Apple are completely debt free and doing nothing. As an American i feel like the strongest force in this crisis is the teenager at the gas station and the army of people working swing shift at supermarkets for the same garbage wage theyve always earned and no healthcare.
    - Waterluvian 7y ago
      The people who continue to work the supermarkets definitely are heroes. How can they not be scared?
Taek 7y ago
I really don't think they are doing enough. The virus is still growing at an exponential rate, and when you look at the other countries that managed to get things under control vs. the ones that didn't, the actions that NYC and the rest of America are taking fall squarely into "this looks like the ones that didn't get things under control." Public transport needs to be disabled. People need to be required to wear a mask when they go out. Police need to enforce people staying inside. Italy got the growth rate down to 15% per day. That's still enough to hit the whole population by early May.
- jmull 7y ago
  > People need to be required to wear a mask when they go out. Well, you can’t do that here because those masks don’t exist. We don’t have enough for healthcare workers, much less everyone else.
  - jariel 7y ago
    I think in this case any piece of cloth will do - we're not talking N95s. Basically, it reduces the likelihood of spittle etc. and so it reduces spread. That said Taiwan, S. Korea, Singapore are all riding the Subways, going to Restaurants, going to work. They're more aggressive with testing and tracking.
    - ajross 7y ago
      It also keeps your hands away from your mucus membranes. Just tying a bandana around your face is absolutely a useful mitigation. But staying home is better.
      - DanBC 7y ago
        If anything it makes you touch your face more -- masks are weird and itchy, and they need to be adjusted when they slip. There's good reasons why the CDC, Public Health England, The World Health Organisation, etc etc all say that masks don't work. ANd that's because they don't work. > Just tying a bandana around your face is absolutely a useful mitigation. This "protective" mask will helpfully absorb any moisture droplets and hold them in place in front of your mouth and nose, and you will breathe in the virus as these droplets dry out. https://twitter.com/MedtechMustKnow/status/1241295034286084101 https://twitter.com/MedtechMustKnow/status/12412950342860841...
narogab 7y ago
We have plenty of space (churches, meeting halls, school and university dormitories) to use for temporary hospitals w/o the Army building temporary buildings that will cost a fortune and later be torn down all on the taxpayers' dime. Charitable organizations, universities and institutions should be willing to donate those resources. I don't want to pay the army for building: I want their doctors doing research on a cure/fix for Covid-19 and I want their soldiers alert and ready. It would be cheaper to hire immigrant Mexicans to build temporary hospitals. Using the army to build hospitals when better space is already is a waste of time, a waste of money and little more than a boondoggle for the suppliers who are chosen. And isn't this possibly a violation of the posse comitatus Act? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
- crooked-v 7y ago
  > We have plenty of space (churches, meeting halls, school and university dormitories) to use for temporary hospitals Making these spaces fit the physical needs of these hospitals (massive power requirements for equipment, hallways and elevators with certain amounts of clearance for transporting patients, extremely well-controlled ventilation systems, sanitizable surfaces everywhere, rooms laid out with central access for doctors and nurses) would take so much time and effort that it would be more money- and time-efficient to build new buildings with the expertise of a group practiced in building new, reasonably high-quality buildings as fast as possible... like, say, the Army. These need to be modern hospitals, not 19th-century sanitariums where patients just get dumped into a bed and left to die or recover on their own. > It would be cheaper to hire immigrant Mexicans to build temporary hospitals. Right, and I'm sure hiring random people to construct temporary buildings as fast as possible would result in something that won't fall in on peoples' heads immediately. > And isn't this possibly a violation of the posse comitatus Act? The Posse Comitatus Act applies to the use of the military as law enforcement, so, no.
  - narogab 7y ago
    crooked-v says "these hospitals (massive power requirements for equipment, hallways and elevators with certain amounts of clearance for transporting patients, extremely well-controlled ventilation systems, sanitizable surfaces everywhere, rooms laid out with central access for doctors and nurses) would take so much time and effort that it would be more money- and time-efficient to build new buildings with the expertise of a group practiced in building new, reasonably high-quality buildings as fast as possible... like, say, the Army." Can you name 3 hospitals that fit your description and were built by the US Army in the last 10 years? I mean "actually built" (not bought, not prefabricated for, etc.) Can you name a single one? I don't think so. I was speaking to a US Army carpenter 5 weeks ago: his Army classes taught him how to build an outhouse: it was his choice whether it had a door or a window - he chose a door because the design/build is simpler. I'd much rather have a Mexican laborer who is familiar with a handsaw and hammer than the average GI in the US Army. You're wrong about what they are trained to build and you're wrong about their skills. The Corps of Engineers are good at earth moving and that's about all. This will be a "learn on-the-job" boondoggle. We don't need what you describe: we need modern buildings that have good roofs and in which the proper equipment can be deployed. Those buildings are already built: gymnasiums, dormitories, meeting halls, stadiums, auditoriums, churches et al all fill the bill and are almost immediately available. crooked-v says "Right, and I'm sure hiring random people to construct temporary buildings as fast as possible would result in something that won't fall in on peoples' heads immediately." Here you _must_ be talking about the US Army - there's little more random than the conscripts today. And they'll do it on the lowest bid. A recipe for success or for failure?
chupa-chups 7y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657717
jacquesm 7y ago
The United States jumped from position 20 or so on the world ranking for the number of cases to spot number 3 in a manner of days. NYC doubled overnight. There was an article published all of seven hours ago that claimed the US was #4: https://www.newsweek.com/u-s-now-has-third-highest-number-covid-19-cases-after-china-italy-1493618 https://www.newsweek.com/u-s-now-has-third-highest-number-co... it has already been made outdated by developments: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ . Wonder what degree of revisionism the 'it is just a flu' crowd will engage in where they are on the record.
- teddyvangogh 7y ago
  Very important: 1. Gov. Cuomo announces trial of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to start in NY https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/22/coronavirus-ny-gov-cuomo-says-state-to-start-clinical-drug-trial-authorizes-temporary-hospitals-asks-us-to-nationalize-medical-supply-buying.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/22/coronavirus-ny-gov-cuomo-say... 2. CDC: Healthcare workers OK to use homemade masks (bandana,scarf) as last resort. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tjmccue/2020/03/20/calling-all-people-who-sew-and-make-you-can-help-solve-2020-n95-type-mask-shortage/#3d6b3b8f4e41 https://www.forbes.com/sites/tjmccue/2020/03/20/calling-all-... “Healthcare personnel (HCP) use of homemade masks: In settings where facemasks are not available, HCP might use homemade masks (e.g., bandana, scarf) for care of patients with COVID-19 as a last resort. However, homemade masks are not considered PPE, since their capability to protect HCP is unknown. Caution should be exercised when considering this option. Homemade masks should ideally be used in combination with a face shield that covers the entire front (that extends to the chin or below) and sides of the face.”
- jjjensen90 7y ago
  Although NY is probably seeing an explosion in infections, this doubling is probably not a true growth in number of cases overnight, but instead representative of massively increased testing in NY.
  - vkou 7y ago
    That's true. But an actual doubling, measured by the number of people who can't breathe in a hospital currently takes 3-4 days.
pjmorris 7y ago
I keep having this crazy, irresponsible, dangerous... hopeful idea: virus cruises. Take one or more available cruise ships, equip it with ventilators, tests, supplie, ask for volunteer crew, passengers, and medical staff, and send everyone off for a two week cruise to get deliberately infected with the virus, study its characteristics, and start to build herd immunity. Seems like it'd be a way to get started fighting back.
- natalyarostova 7y ago
  Lol that’s retarded.
- jawns 7y ago
  I don't think you realize what the severe cases look like. This isn't chickenpox. This is people drowning in their own fluid-filled lungs, having to be physically restrained to keep from pulling out their tubes, with a surprisingly rapid progression from mild symptoms to requiring a ventilator to being declared dead. You willing to sign up for that?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jacquesm 7y ago
  You'd be murdering people. That's an un-ethical medical experiment. About as unethical as what already happened to those on the Diamond Princess. 8 of them are dead now, there are still another 15 in critical with some of those expected to eventually die.
  - Izkata 7y ago
    Just to punch it in a bit more: The ship was quarantined about a month and a half ago. This isn't a week-or-so sickness.
- layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  If this is not peak HN I don’t know what it is.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
The Army Corps of Engineers is one of the finer things in the US. I find it encouraging that they are involved with this effort. Please note that's an extremely specific observation and doesn't implicitly suggest anything else, positive or negative, about the rest of this situation.
- dehrmann 7y ago
  They are and they aren't. What they did for New Orleans is stupid-incredible. Stupid because it's a river-gulf city below sea level that the rivers are trying to absorb with no plans to relocate. Incredible because wow, that's an accomplishment. A lot of that is subject to political whims, though, so it's not necessarily the Corps's decision.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    https://www.usace.army.mil/Missions/ https://www.usace.army.mil/Missions/
    - blaser-waffle 7y ago
      Don't just post a link without any context. Best case scenario I have do dig through some website to figure out what your point is. Worse case is that it's straight up malware. I get that it's the Corps of Engineers website -- I could have found that on my own. What am I to take away from this link?
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        You aren't required to care what my point is or to click on any links I post. I am sometimes looking to respond in some way to the specific person in question and let them know that I think they are wrong about something. I generally prefer, if possible, to not turn it into a pissing contest or a big deal that leaves them feeling personally attacked, publicly humiliated, etc. It's like trying to have a private conversation on a stage in front of an open mic. Maybe no one will pay any attention. Or maybe all eyes will turn towards the two of us and things will get suddenly very awkward. I would like to minimize how awkward it gets, if possible. I have an extremely high opinion of the Army Corps of Engineers. My father and ex husband were both career Army and I've lived all over the US and spent time in Germany. There are lots of non military projects that have a sign somewhere indicating the Army Corps of Engineers worked on it. Their work is everywhere. I don't think I've ever actually met anyone from the Corps. In my mind, they occupy this mystical, legendary space where no one ever sees them, but they magically show up to build huge infrastructure projects of abnormally high quality. Then, like little shoemaker elves, they disappear, leaving behind their amazing work though it seems to me personally like no one ever sees them. I was just looking for a list of projects to suggest that the Corps does a great deal of stuff and shouldn't be judged harshly for one bad example. And then I found the above page listing so much more than I had any idea they did. I am even more in awe and even more convinced they are basically wizards stealthily hiding from public view like ninjas while building what sometimes seems like all of the big infrastructure projects in the US. And I didn't feel there was any way for me to open my mouth and somehow downplay the awe I personally have for their work and have had all my life without sounding like I was coming down on some random person like a giant ton of bricks. So I just left the link and said nothing because there isn't enough time in the world to "write a shorter letter" in this case and subtract a lot of baggage, so to speak. And I don't see any good whatsoever coming out of making a random internet stranger feel like they are being intentionally buried under a ton of bricks for the crime of being unaware that the Corps does vast quantities of things and New Orleans is just one single project. It seems to me they edited their comment to be less harshly critical of the Corps, so I feel like they probably got the point. You are more than welcome to just ignore any stand alone links I might occasionally post for some reason in the future.
throwaway8291 7y ago
At current pace the whole US will be infected by May (I wonder, whether the market have priced that in already).
- cm2187 7y ago
  To be fair, the market isn't pricing deaths of old and sick people. It is pricing the suppression of economic activity as a result of the lockdown. If the whole of the US were really infected by May and if by June the lockdown would be off and the virus in the rear mirror, you would see a big market rallye.
listennexttime 7y ago
So what changed in the last few days? What is playing out is EXACTLY what epidimiologists, scientists, mathemeticians, the US intelligence agencies, and the WHO have been saying for over a month at this point. This has ALL been predicted and no one fucking cared or listened until it is BY DEFINITION TOO LATE. I've even been saying this for weeks now, and I get challenged on it. Even though every single day we continue to just follow or beat the worst trend lines from the worst affected countries BECAUSE WE'RE NOT DOING ANY OF THE THINGS WE KNOW WORK. What's going to be different next time? Are we going to have a global conversation about our inability to plan more than 2 days out? Our inability to grasp truly horrific facts and accept them, instead of letting fearful human brains go "That could never happen in America" (lol) even in the fact of raw statistics? Or is this just another thing I'm going to be eye-rolled at and told "it's just how it is". A global pandemic and economic slump (I'm metering my predictions here because this site doesn't seem to be able to handle realistically gloomy predictions for the future) still isn't enough to get us to ask how we got here?
- ep103 7y ago
  Just a reminder that trump still has a 43% approval rating among Americans. If you want to solve the problems you're talking about, you have to solve the underlying reason for this one first.
  - fma 7y ago
    A quick video on the "underlying reason" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA
  - 1996 7y ago
    You should not worry about the current low approval ratings. I'm sure it will easily go >50% once people see results coming - like field hospitals, hydroxychloroquine available to treat patients, etc. Even below 50%, everyone seems to comply and follow up on the lockdown at the moment. I don't know about the precise situation in Europe, but I've been told France had to go to martial law because people were not complying with the voluntary lockdown.
Reason077 7y ago
> "The Governor also issued an executive order temporary closing the Department of Motor Vehicles for all in-office visits. Online transactions, including for license renewals, are still be available." It seems a bit dated to even have in-office visits for things like driving license renewals. The UK equivalent, DVLA, closed all their office counters a few years back. Now everything is done online and by post.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  There's still things like driving tests that need to be done in person how do they do those? Most things can be done online but they keep the locations open for things like RealID and driving/vision tests.
  - Reason077 7y ago
    Driving test centres still operate as before. You register, book, and pay for your test online, then go to the test centre at the booked time. But routine things like vehicle taxes, license renewals, updating addresses, etc, are all done online.
    - rtkwe 7y ago
      That's basically the same for me in North Carolina, only a few things /require/ you to go in to the DMV. We do have the complication of having many states and having to support people getting a new license in the state they move to so there's a constant need for people getting new IDs which needs in person to gather the info and documents about the person.
- lostapathy 7y ago
  On the contrary, I wish we'd be more aggressive about drivers licensing. The whole process is fairly meaningless. My mother-in-law barely has enough motor control to turn the key to start the car, yet somehow she just renewed her license. People like her need to be taken for a test drive, not allowed to renew online.
dev1n 7y ago
Here is the very informative briefing Cuomo gave today [1]. Quick facts for the state of New York: 1. ~15,000 cases of confirmed COVID-19 2. 114 individuals have died from COVID-19 a. 70% of deaths were ages 70 and over and "majority" had underlying health conditions. b. ~80% of those who died under the age of 70 had underlying health conditions. 3. 18-49 years old represent 53% of all confirmed COVID-19 cases. 4. hospitalization rate of 13% which is very good, flattening the curve works. Stay inside. Cuomo has mandated the City of New York to hand over a plan in 24 hours (as of today) to outline how exactly the local governments will curtail overcrowding in parks and other public places. When asked why Cuomo can't do this himself, he stated in a fair manner that while he does have the power to do so, he would not be as apt to devise the plan as the local governments are. This is the right move. Gov. Cuomo made a similar judgement when pressing the federal gov't to curtail fed regulations and to allow him to open over 200 labs available within the state of New York to provide faster testing than what the federal government was able to do. This opening of state-wide labs is why NY has nearly 15x the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases when compared to the next highest, the state of Washington. NY also has a more accurate hospitalization rate because of this, which is a very important number to be tracking when figuring out how to "flatten the curve" which currently sits at 13%. Governor Cuomo is following the playbook of South Korea as effectively as possible in this current political climate and has successfully deployed every move available to him and helped push federal barriers down to allow NY to attack this virus faster than any other state. He is showing leadership that everyone wishes to see at the Federal level. Having all of these laboratories in the state of NY makes me grateful every time I think about how much I pay in state taxes. But I can't help to think about how all of the bloodshed is a direct result of the failure of leadership at the federal level to be proactive about the situation. There is nothing of greater importance than every individual human life. The federal government sacrificed these people and all the people who will suffer and die in the future in the name of better polling numbers, placating a fan base, and keeping stocks afloat for a mere month longer than they would have. Edit: Moved 53% statistic into its own bullet. Don't know know why I had it as a sub-bullet of the deaths statistic. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjbIVnnMT18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjbIVnnMT18
- ttul 7y ago
  Perhaps residents of WA will now contemplate the wisdom of higher taxes.
robomartin 7y ago
A couple of observations: First, most of what’s out there in the media and popular discussion is nothing less than ignorant. Sometimes I feel people watch too many movies and think they are real. Under normal conditions it can take over a year to go from nothing to making something as simple as a certified N95 mask at scale. Under normal conditions component lead times in electronics can easily be in the 8 to 16 week range. Not to mention such things as manufacturing tooling, molds, test systems, etc. Making hardware is hard for a reason. It takes time, and money can’t always accelerate the timeline. And so, reporters pounding away at test kit, mask or PPE is ignorant and counterproductive. Making 100 million masks in haste could result in ineffective masks that provide little protection. This problem is exacerbated by a supply chain that has been the subject of major disruption. The sad reality is, when you don’t control the entire supply chain you can only accomplish so much. This is surely a lesson that might change the world post COVID-19. Aside from that. It seems to me converting cruise ships to temporary hospitals might be the quickest way to expand capacity. They are self-contained little cities with rooms for thousands.
gist 7y ago
Interesting life lesson for those who are not familiar is the concept I think it's called 'don't spit into the wind'. By this I mean all of the politicians who constantly gave Trump a hard time at each and every turn. I don't mean any in particular investigation and I don't mean they needed to agree and not criticize him at all at any time. But maybe they should have thought that this person 'The President' has the ability to give their region (or their state) what they need 'greenlight' and yes he should do it because 'it's the right thing to do' but human decision making and interaction is more than that. And people are people. This is no different for any political process or politician. Sometimes you have to simply (to use the phrase) 'not be a dick' if there is a person in power who can give you things you need to play the game. Doesn't mean you should like the game and doesn't mean it shouldn't be that way but in the end it is the way life often is.
doctoboggan 7y ago
Does anyone know if it is possible to volunteer for the Army Corps of Engineers?
chiefalchemist 7y ago
> Over the past days, an inspection team led by the Army Corps of Engineers, and including state officials from the Office of General Services, the Dormitory Authority of the State of New York Huh? What? How was this not already done? YEARS ago? What if this was something _fast_ moving? We knew a pandemic was inevitable. No stock pile of mask? No plan for ad hoc hospitals? If they're making it up as they go then what has FEMA, the DoD and the CDC been doing with our money? Using it for TP?
leto_ii 7y ago
This effort should be commended. However, I'm wondering, where are all the billionaires and corporations when the world needs them? I'm not even asking this flippantly. Seriously, how come they're not doing anything? Just for the past few months Bloomberg spent half a billion essentially to achieve nothing. Couldn't he repeat the feat and build a few hospitals to help out his home state? Or his country? How about everyone else?
- dillondoyle 7y ago
  * 1 billion...
- asdff 7y ago
  I believe he could repeat that feat 120 times and still be a billionaire.
  - leto_ii 7y ago
    Indeed. Maybe we should demand it of him and of others in his position. Regular people are placed under a tremendous burden all over the world and they are expected to cooperate and to sacrifice. The very least the rich could do is shoulder part of the financial burden.
teddyvangogh 7y ago
Nobel laureate and Stanford biophysicist predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery: 'We're going to be fine' https://news.yahoo.com/why-nobel-laureate-predicts-quicker-210318391.html https://news.yahoo.com/why-nobel-laureate-predicts-quicker-2...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- psabl 7y ago
  Why is this downvoted? It is a reasonable article. The first SARS virus around 2000 was completely overhyped, the world was coming to an end back then, too. HN should be a place for collecting reasonable information, no need to suppress or censor information that does not fit your world view.
  - seren 7y ago
    I think this is a reasonable article, but the headline is a bit click baity, given what are and will be the health and economic consequences. This is not Levitt fault but the editorial choice.
  - gindely 7y ago
    This isn't like the first sars. The first sars was pretty contagious but not like sars 2. The first sars was pretty deadly but not like sars 2. The article seems reasonable, but people who are much more concerned about sars 2 than we were about sars 1 are rationally responding to very different circumstances - so I think your editorialisation misses the picture.
    - jaspax 7y ago
      You're underselling your case. COVID-19 has already killed 20x as many people as the 2002-2004 SARS outbreak, infected 40x as many, and it's still going up. Responding to this with "lol we've had this problem before" is just foolish.
    - seemslegit 7y ago
BrandonMarc 7y ago
Why didn't we start a month ago? 6 weeks ago?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
huffmsa 7y ago
All of those shipping container to modular homes should be working on making mobile hospital wards. Doesn't need to be fancy, just functional and better than being in a tent. Need someone to coordinate it though.

416 points by antoncohen 7y ago

jawns 7y ago

I am very curious about the "technical issue" that is preventing NY from receiving aid in the relief bill.

trothamel 7y ago
https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/loophole-in-feds-relief-bill-means-new-york-misses-out-on-6b-coronavirus-aid-package.html https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/loophole-in-fed... Apparently, it prevents states from making changes to Medicaid this year, but NY already did.
- WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
  Honestly, if this goes through, New York should just bus people to the closest states that got the coronavirus bill money. This should ensure that people get the proper care and definitely won't cause large amounts of spreading outside of New Tork.
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    I know I may sound naive asking this, but wouldn't it just be easier to change the Bill? If the bill doesn't help New York, what good is it? It should provide Coronavirus relief for everyone in the nation who needs it. But I'm not a political type, so if I'm thinking about this wrong I'm open to being corrected.
    - WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
      This didn't just happen... someone wanted to screw one of those liberal states in this democrat hoax...
      - bilbo0s 7y ago
        If that be the case, I mean, yeah, just, no words. I'm disappointed I guess. I've always had limited faith and political and economic leaders, but this crisis has really just cratered the little faith I did have. Let's screw the liberal states? Let's make a few bucks on the stock market? Just, wow. Can't even be angry really, I don't deserve any better. In a democracy, you get exactly the leaders you are deserving of. I guess I know how much we rate. Lesson learned.
        Ericson2314 7y ago
        Also keep in mind the proposed $1000 check has a salary minimum in order to qualify, not just salary maximum. I suppose the poor cannot vote you out if they are dead.
        bilbo0s 7y ago
        Wow. Didn't know that either. Just, yeah. To not only do all the stuff that our politicians, of every political stripe, are doing, but then to screw over the poor at a time like this as well? I think I'm done here for the day. I'm pretty sure I don't want to know anything more about what the politicians are doing.
        WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
        Yeah, $75,000 maximum, $18,000 minimum... If you make $75,000 in New York, you're probably homeless... but in the red states that's fuck you money.
        briandear 7y ago
        If you aren’t making money before the disaster, why should you get a check to compensate for a salary you aren’t losing?
        WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
        Because the kind of people who are in that bracket will spend it...
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      New York votes for Democrats. Making them suffer and look bad is part of Trump's campaign.
blackguardx 7y ago
Cuomo addressed this in the press conference. I believe it relates to Medicaid. New York modified some Medicaid rules in January and the relief bill won't grant money to states with modified Medicaid rules. He didn't get into specifics, but said that the bill needed to be updated.
danielfoster 7y ago
I am as well, but overall I’m very frustrated by the lack of coordination and leadership overall. This combined with de Blasio’s proven inability to lead is making the situation much worse than it needs to be.
- ntsplnkv2 7y ago
  This is a pandemic. Across country and state lines. Any response that is not federal is going to struggle. The buck stops solely at the white house and congress for failing to see the warning signs and properly respond.
  - pmorici 7y ago
    I think they saw the warning signs. [0] [0] https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/03/burr-unloaded-stocks-before-coronavirus/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2020/03/burr-unloaded-stock...
  - m0zg 7y ago
    Cuomo OTOH has been quite effective at working with the administration to ramp up testing to the highest throughput in the nation, as well as enacting other measures, and getting FEMA involved, while DeBlasio's response was pretty much only to point out that "orange man bad", and dragging his staff around with him to infected areas. As of 2 days ago, he went to the _gym_. If you listen to WH pressers, you will see that federal government wants the governors to do what they can to procure stuff and enact measures for their states, and step in when the governors feel their response will be inadequate. Which is what we're observing in CA and NY as the governors of those states chose to put politics aside for the time being and actually engage. The reason for delegating frontline response to the states is that if the federal government steps in to buy medical supplies for example (which BTW it still does from time to time - they ordered $500M worth of N95 masks yesterday), such a purchase would first soak up available capacity, and then it'd have to be disbursed to the states, instead of going to them directly, adding delay and confusion. FWIW, I have not seen this level of coordinated response to _anything_ and I've been in the US for 20 years now. I did not know some of the things that are being done are even possible. FEMA and Army Corps of Engineers started to step in massively over the past week. Companies are starting to make ventilators. Drugs and testing equipment are approved for use in weeks instead of years. The list goes on.

deng 7y ago

According to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ the NY numbers have more than doubled today (from ~10k to ~22k). What is happening? Are some belated test results coming in? EDIT: Numbers were just corrected, are now at total ~16k with ~5k new cases. Still high growth, but more reasonable.

sesutton 7y ago
New York state has been increasing testing pretty rapidly. A few days ago they were at 10,000 a day.
ardit33 7y ago
They started testing in mass the last couple of days, so you see the spike...
roskilli 7y ago
New York is now testing more daily per-capita than South Korea and China, so naturally due to the higher test rate (which gives ability to find the clusters) New York is going to pull ahead of the rest of the country because it will have the ability to actually show the cases that are active but weren't able to be tested.
laurentlb 7y ago
I think there was a typo. Earlier this day, NY had +5k. Then it went to +12,345 (which looked like a suspicious number to me). And now, the number is back to +5,429. It's still growing fast though.
cm2187 7y ago
I think generally the case numbers reflect more how much testing is being made in the country than how many people are infected. I think I got infected, called a relative of mine who is a doctor and followed UK guidelines which is to self isolate. So I appear in no statistics whatsoever. As the vast majority of people with none or mild symptoms. I think you can pretty much ditch the official case numbers as meaningless.
7y ago

systemvoltage 7y ago

I very much admire Gov Cuomo - he is perfectly straight forward in his approach, putting aside partisanship and truly care about his state and the New York City. I encourage everyone to watch his updates to see for yourself. We need more leaders like him. In his presentation, he is telling how to run the Federal goverment and recommendations - which just illustrates the competance of the executive branch of the US Govt. Same thing with Gov Newsom of California. Latest update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlZeKTlpcqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlZeKTlpcqU

untog 7y ago
This article sums up the feelings of many New Yorkers, myself included: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/business/media/cuomo-new-york-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/business/media/cuomo-new-... In normal times he is utterly infuriating and represents some of the worst qualities you see in a politician. In a crisis... well, you need a solid pair of hands and a leader capable of making big decisions effectively. And he is definitely that.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Churchill was the same way. Great wartime leader. Rubbish in peacetime.
- Eric_WVGG 7y ago
  Seconded. I can’t stand the guy, but contrast his leadership to that of our Mayor and he comes out looking like a hero.
- Ericson2314 7y ago
  I am not ready to change my assessment of him. There were ample situations in in "peace time" for him to push harder but he didn't. DeBlasio may be more inept, but Cuomo only pushes things hard after they become very popular. That's still not leadership.

soared 7y ago

> The Army Corps is expected to immediately begin work to construct the [four] temporary hospitals. The Governor is also requesting FEMA designate four field hospitals NY is creating EIGHT temporary hospitals total. I can't imagine the logistics, staffing, materials, etc. A few days ago I wasn't terribly concerned, but it continues to look worse and worse for the US.

rb808 7y ago
from the article: > The Governor is also requesting FEMA designate four field hospitals with 250 beds each for the state, intended for use in the Javits Center in addition to the temporary hospital to be constructed by the Army Corps. I think putting 1000 beds in a conference centre sounds a lot less dramatic than 4 new hospitals.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  I wonder why Wuhan authorities opted for new construction over using available spaces that surely must exist in a 10M city when everything is shut down?
  - posix_me_less 7y ago
    Available spaces were most probably not fit to serve as hospital for airborne infectious disease. Water/air ducts, isolation rooms, medical equipment and so on.
  - nashashmi 7y ago
    Wuhan wanted to put the hospital away from city center. And did not want to contaminate existing spaces. In NYC, there is very little space for something new. And the existing structures are poor locations for actual hospitals. If the economy is going to be down for a while, might as well use a public space that is shut down for that purpose.
  - subroutine 7y ago
    Perhaps it was to enlist the unemployed. Lots of people losing jobs because of the epidemic + need for hospitals to mitigate epidemic effects = build hospitals?

MiguelVieira 7y ago

This blog post covers the math of why this is necessary https://medium.com/@donnellymjd/covid-19-nyc-should-brace-for-impact-and-shut-down-now-a7c62afac81e https://medium.com/@donnellymjd/covid-19-nyc-should-brace-fo...

magwa101 7y ago

Wow, ok, finally.

Waterluvian 7y ago

As an onlooker I feel like once America awakens to a crisis it is impressive to watch. I mean this kind of should have happened weeks ago, and the executive branch is a bit of a panicked joke. But I mean... You've got this colossal capacity to deploy field hospitals and hospital ships and such and ramp up capacity. Terrible hurricane? Show up with a massive floating power plant and water treatment facility plus air logistics. And I think one of the strongest virtues of the United States is being proven by Trump: the incredible power of leadership at all levels of government. In the absence of a leader at the top you've got senators and congresspersons and governors and mayors and CEOs all getting shit done. This is all an incredible (but regrettable) exercise of numerous fail safes inherent in the American system.

lonelappde 7y ago
> Terrible hurricane? Show up with a massive floating power plant and water treatment facility plus air logistics. The US has a disastrous recent history of failing to respond to multipld hurricanes with adequate support, from Katrina to Maria.
- nimbius 7y ago
  >the incredible power of leadership at all levels of government. anyone remember when Mike Pence actually created an HIV epidemic in his state by ignoring the CDC in favour of prayer? :) or when Trump recommended mixing two tentatively researched drugs to combat COVID-19 that could induce fatal arrhythmia? Or Hurricane Katrina? when Bush basically sat on his hands while nearly 2000 people died? C-level leadership is dog-earing their pockets and preparing to shill the government for bailouts, despite buybacks and record profits. Companies like Apple are completely debt free and doing nothing. As an American i feel like the strongest force in this crisis is the teenager at the gas station and the army of people working swing shift at supermarkets for the same garbage wage theyve always earned and no healthcare.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
    The people who continue to work the supermarkets definitely are heroes. How can they not be scared?

Taek 7y ago

I really don't think they are doing enough. The virus is still growing at an exponential rate, and when you look at the other countries that managed to get things under control vs. the ones that didn't, the actions that NYC and the rest of America are taking fall squarely into "this looks like the ones that didn't get things under control." Public transport needs to be disabled. People need to be required to wear a mask when they go out. Police need to enforce people staying inside. Italy got the growth rate down to 15% per day. That's still enough to hit the whole population by early May.

jmull 7y ago
> People need to be required to wear a mask when they go out. Well, you can’t do that here because those masks don’t exist. We don’t have enough for healthcare workers, much less everyone else.
- jariel 7y ago
  I think in this case any piece of cloth will do - we're not talking N95s. Basically, it reduces the likelihood of spittle etc. and so it reduces spread. That said Taiwan, S. Korea, Singapore are all riding the Subways, going to Restaurants, going to work. They're more aggressive with testing and tracking.
  - ajross 7y ago
    It also keeps your hands away from your mucus membranes. Just tying a bandana around your face is absolutely a useful mitigation. But staying home is better.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      If anything it makes you touch your face more -- masks are weird and itchy, and they need to be adjusted when they slip. There's good reasons why the CDC, Public Health England, The World Health Organisation, etc etc all say that masks don't work. ANd that's because they don't work. > Just tying a bandana around your face is absolutely a useful mitigation. This "protective" mask will helpfully absorb any moisture droplets and hold them in place in front of your mouth and nose, and you will breathe in the virus as these droplets dry out. https://twitter.com/MedtechMustKnow/status/1241295034286084101 https://twitter.com/MedtechMustKnow/status/12412950342860841...

narogab 7y ago

We have plenty of space (churches, meeting halls, school and university dormitories) to use for temporary hospitals w/o the Army building temporary buildings that will cost a fortune and later be torn down all on the taxpayers' dime. Charitable organizations, universities and institutions should be willing to donate those resources. I don't want to pay the army for building: I want their doctors doing research on a cure/fix for Covid-19 and I want their soldiers alert and ready. It would be cheaper to hire immigrant Mexicans to build temporary hospitals. Using the army to build hospitals when better space is already is a waste of time, a waste of money and little more than a boondoggle for the suppliers who are chosen. And isn't this possibly a violation of the posse comitatus Act? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

crooked-v 7y ago
> We have plenty of space (churches, meeting halls, school and university dormitories) to use for temporary hospitals Making these spaces fit the physical needs of these hospitals (massive power requirements for equipment, hallways and elevators with certain amounts of clearance for transporting patients, extremely well-controlled ventilation systems, sanitizable surfaces everywhere, rooms laid out with central access for doctors and nurses) would take so much time and effort that it would be more money- and time-efficient to build new buildings with the expertise of a group practiced in building new, reasonably high-quality buildings as fast as possible... like, say, the Army. These need to be modern hospitals, not 19th-century sanitariums where patients just get dumped into a bed and left to die or recover on their own. > It would be cheaper to hire immigrant Mexicans to build temporary hospitals. Right, and I'm sure hiring random people to construct temporary buildings as fast as possible would result in something that won't fall in on peoples' heads immediately. > And isn't this possibly a violation of the posse comitatus Act? The Posse Comitatus Act applies to the use of the military as law enforcement, so, no.
- narogab 7y ago
  crooked-v says "these hospitals (massive power requirements for equipment, hallways and elevators with certain amounts of clearance for transporting patients, extremely well-controlled ventilation systems, sanitizable surfaces everywhere, rooms laid out with central access for doctors and nurses) would take so much time and effort that it would be more money- and time-efficient to build new buildings with the expertise of a group practiced in building new, reasonably high-quality buildings as fast as possible... like, say, the Army." Can you name 3 hospitals that fit your description and were built by the US Army in the last 10 years? I mean "actually built" (not bought, not prefabricated for, etc.) Can you name a single one? I don't think so. I was speaking to a US Army carpenter 5 weeks ago: his Army classes taught him how to build an outhouse: it was his choice whether it had a door or a window - he chose a door because the design/build is simpler. I'd much rather have a Mexican laborer who is familiar with a handsaw and hammer than the average GI in the US Army. You're wrong about what they are trained to build and you're wrong about their skills. The Corps of Engineers are good at earth moving and that's about all. This will be a "learn on-the-job" boondoggle. We don't need what you describe: we need modern buildings that have good roofs and in which the proper equipment can be deployed. Those buildings are already built: gymnasiums, dormitories, meeting halls, stadiums, auditoriums, churches et al all fill the bill and are almost immediately available. crooked-v says "Right, and I'm sure hiring random people to construct temporary buildings as fast as possible would result in something that won't fall in on peoples' heads immediately." Here you _must_ be talking about the US Army - there's little more random than the conscripts today. And they'll do it on the lowest bid. A recipe for success or for failure?

chupa-chups 7y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657717

jacquesm 7y ago

The United States jumped from position 20 or so on the world ranking for the number of cases to spot number 3 in a manner of days. NYC doubled overnight. There was an article published all of seven hours ago that claimed the US was #4: https://www.newsweek.com/u-s-now-has-third-highest-number-covid-19-cases-after-china-italy-1493618 https://www.newsweek.com/u-s-now-has-third-highest-number-co... it has already been made outdated by developments: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ . Wonder what degree of revisionism the 'it is just a flu' crowd will engage in where they are on the record.

teddyvangogh 7y ago
Very important: 1. Gov. Cuomo announces trial of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to start in NY https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/22/coronavirus-ny-gov-cuomo-says-state-to-start-clinical-drug-trial-authorizes-temporary-hospitals-asks-us-to-nationalize-medical-supply-buying.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/22/coronavirus-ny-gov-cuomo-say... 2. CDC: Healthcare workers OK to use homemade masks (bandana,scarf) as last resort. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tjmccue/2020/03/20/calling-all-people-who-sew-and-make-you-can-help-solve-2020-n95-type-mask-shortage/#3d6b3b8f4e41 https://www.forbes.com/sites/tjmccue/2020/03/20/calling-all-... “Healthcare personnel (HCP) use of homemade masks: In settings where facemasks are not available, HCP might use homemade masks (e.g., bandana, scarf) for care of patients with COVID-19 as a last resort. However, homemade masks are not considered PPE, since their capability to protect HCP is unknown. Caution should be exercised when considering this option. Homemade masks should ideally be used in combination with a face shield that covers the entire front (that extends to the chin or below) and sides of the face.”
jjjensen90 7y ago
Although NY is probably seeing an explosion in infections, this doubling is probably not a true growth in number of cases overnight, but instead representative of massively increased testing in NY.
- vkou 7y ago
  That's true. But an actual doubling, measured by the number of people who can't breathe in a hospital currently takes 3-4 days.

pjmorris 7y ago

I keep having this crazy, irresponsible, dangerous... hopeful idea: virus cruises. Take one or more available cruise ships, equip it with ventilators, tests, supplie, ask for volunteer crew, passengers, and medical staff, and send everyone off for a two week cruise to get deliberately infected with the virus, study its characteristics, and start to build herd immunity. Seems like it'd be a way to get started fighting back.

natalyarostova 7y ago
Lol that’s retarded.
jawns 7y ago
I don't think you realize what the severe cases look like. This isn't chickenpox. This is people drowning in their own fluid-filled lungs, having to be physically restrained to keep from pulling out their tubes, with a surprisingly rapid progression from mild symptoms to requiring a ventilator to being declared dead. You willing to sign up for that?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jacquesm 7y ago
You'd be murdering people. That's an un-ethical medical experiment. About as unethical as what already happened to those on the Diamond Princess. 8 of them are dead now, there are still another 15 in critical with some of those expected to eventually die.
- Izkata 7y ago
  Just to punch it in a bit more: The ship was quarantined about a month and a half ago. This isn't a week-or-so sickness.
layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
If this is not peak HN I don’t know what it is.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

The Army Corps of Engineers is one of the finer things in the US. I find it encouraging that they are involved with this effort. Please note that's an extremely specific observation and doesn't implicitly suggest anything else, positive or negative, about the rest of this situation.

dehrmann 7y ago
They are and they aren't. What they did for New Orleans is stupid-incredible. Stupid because it's a river-gulf city below sea level that the rivers are trying to absorb with no plans to relocate. Incredible because wow, that's an accomplishment. A lot of that is subject to political whims, though, so it's not necessarily the Corps's decision.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  https://www.usace.army.mil/Missions/ https://www.usace.army.mil/Missions/
  - blaser-waffle 7y ago
    Don't just post a link without any context. Best case scenario I have do dig through some website to figure out what your point is. Worse case is that it's straight up malware. I get that it's the Corps of Engineers website -- I could have found that on my own. What am I to take away from this link?
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      You aren't required to care what my point is or to click on any links I post. I am sometimes looking to respond in some way to the specific person in question and let them know that I think they are wrong about something. I generally prefer, if possible, to not turn it into a pissing contest or a big deal that leaves them feeling personally attacked, publicly humiliated, etc. It's like trying to have a private conversation on a stage in front of an open mic. Maybe no one will pay any attention. Or maybe all eyes will turn towards the two of us and things will get suddenly very awkward. I would like to minimize how awkward it gets, if possible. I have an extremely high opinion of the Army Corps of Engineers. My father and ex husband were both career Army and I've lived all over the US and spent time in Germany. There are lots of non military projects that have a sign somewhere indicating the Army Corps of Engineers worked on it. Their work is everywhere. I don't think I've ever actually met anyone from the Corps. In my mind, they occupy this mystical, legendary space where no one ever sees them, but they magically show up to build huge infrastructure projects of abnormally high quality. Then, like little shoemaker elves, they disappear, leaving behind their amazing work though it seems to me personally like no one ever sees them. I was just looking for a list of projects to suggest that the Corps does a great deal of stuff and shouldn't be judged harshly for one bad example. And then I found the above page listing so much more than I had any idea they did. I am even more in awe and even more convinced they are basically wizards stealthily hiding from public view like ninjas while building what sometimes seems like all of the big infrastructure projects in the US. And I didn't feel there was any way for me to open my mouth and somehow downplay the awe I personally have for their work and have had all my life without sounding like I was coming down on some random person like a giant ton of bricks. So I just left the link and said nothing because there isn't enough time in the world to "write a shorter letter" in this case and subtract a lot of baggage, so to speak. And I don't see any good whatsoever coming out of making a random internet stranger feel like they are being intentionally buried under a ton of bricks for the crime of being unaware that the Corps does vast quantities of things and New Orleans is just one single project. It seems to me they edited their comment to be less harshly critical of the Corps, so I feel like they probably got the point. You are more than welcome to just ignore any stand alone links I might occasionally post for some reason in the future.

throwaway8291 7y ago

At current pace the whole US will be infected by May (I wonder, whether the market have priced that in already).

cm2187 7y ago
To be fair, the market isn't pricing deaths of old and sick people. It is pricing the suppression of economic activity as a result of the lockdown. If the whole of the US were really infected by May and if by June the lockdown would be off and the virus in the rear mirror, you would see a big market rallye.

listennexttime 7y ago

So what changed in the last few days? What is playing out is EXACTLY what epidimiologists, scientists, mathemeticians, the US intelligence agencies, and the WHO have been saying for over a month at this point. This has ALL been predicted and no one fucking cared or listened until it is BY DEFINITION TOO LATE. I've even been saying this for weeks now, and I get challenged on it. Even though every single day we continue to just follow or beat the worst trend lines from the worst affected countries BECAUSE WE'RE NOT DOING ANY OF THE THINGS WE KNOW WORK. What's going to be different next time? Are we going to have a global conversation about our inability to plan more than 2 days out? Our inability to grasp truly horrific facts and accept them, instead of letting fearful human brains go "That could never happen in America" (lol) even in the fact of raw statistics? Or is this just another thing I'm going to be eye-rolled at and told "it's just how it is". A global pandemic and economic slump (I'm metering my predictions here because this site doesn't seem to be able to handle realistically gloomy predictions for the future) still isn't enough to get us to ask how we got here?

ep103 7y ago
Just a reminder that trump still has a 43% approval rating among Americans. If you want to solve the problems you're talking about, you have to solve the underlying reason for this one first.
- fma 7y ago
  A quick video on the "underlying reason" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA
- 1996 7y ago
  You should not worry about the current low approval ratings. I'm sure it will easily go >50% once people see results coming - like field hospitals, hydroxychloroquine available to treat patients, etc. Even below 50%, everyone seems to comply and follow up on the lockdown at the moment. I don't know about the precise situation in Europe, but I've been told France had to go to martial law because people were not complying with the voluntary lockdown.

Reason077 7y ago

> "The Governor also issued an executive order temporary closing the Department of Motor Vehicles for all in-office visits. Online transactions, including for license renewals, are still be available." It seems a bit dated to even have in-office visits for things like driving license renewals. The UK equivalent, DVLA, closed all their office counters a few years back. Now everything is done online and by post.

rtkwe 7y ago
There's still things like driving tests that need to be done in person how do they do those? Most things can be done online but they keep the locations open for things like RealID and driving/vision tests.
- Reason077 7y ago
  Driving test centres still operate as before. You register, book, and pay for your test online, then go to the test centre at the booked time. But routine things like vehicle taxes, license renewals, updating addresses, etc, are all done online.
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    That's basically the same for me in North Carolina, only a few things /require/ you to go in to the DMV. We do have the complication of having many states and having to support people getting a new license in the state they move to so there's a constant need for people getting new IDs which needs in person to gather the info and documents about the person.
lostapathy 7y ago
On the contrary, I wish we'd be more aggressive about drivers licensing. The whole process is fairly meaningless. My mother-in-law barely has enough motor control to turn the key to start the car, yet somehow she just renewed her license. People like her need to be taken for a test drive, not allowed to renew online.

dev1n 7y ago

Here is the very informative briefing Cuomo gave today [1]. Quick facts for the state of New York: 1. ~15,000 cases of confirmed COVID-19 2. 114 individuals have died from COVID-19 a. 70% of deaths were ages 70 and over and "majority" had underlying health conditions. b. ~80% of those who died under the age of 70 had underlying health conditions. 3. 18-49 years old represent 53% of all confirmed COVID-19 cases. 4. hospitalization rate of 13% which is very good, flattening the curve works. Stay inside. Cuomo has mandated the City of New York to hand over a plan in 24 hours (as of today) to outline how exactly the local governments will curtail overcrowding in parks and other public places. When asked why Cuomo can't do this himself, he stated in a fair manner that while he does have the power to do so, he would not be as apt to devise the plan as the local governments are. This is the right move. Gov. Cuomo made a similar judgement when pressing the federal gov't to curtail fed regulations and to allow him to open over 200 labs available within the state of New York to provide faster testing than what the federal government was able to do. This opening of state-wide labs is why NY has nearly 15x the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases when compared to the next highest, the state of Washington. NY also has a more accurate hospitalization rate because of this, which is a very important number to be tracking when figuring out how to "flatten the curve" which currently sits at 13%. Governor Cuomo is following the playbook of South Korea as effectively as possible in this current political climate and has successfully deployed every move available to him and helped push federal barriers down to allow NY to attack this virus faster than any other state. He is showing leadership that everyone wishes to see at the Federal level. Having all of these laboratories in the state of NY makes me grateful every time I think about how much I pay in state taxes. But I can't help to think about how all of the bloodshed is a direct result of the failure of leadership at the federal level to be proactive about the situation. There is nothing of greater importance than every individual human life. The federal government sacrificed these people and all the people who will suffer and die in the future in the name of better polling numbers, placating a fan base, and keeping stocks afloat for a mere month longer than they would have. Edit: Moved 53% statistic into its own bullet. Don't know know why I had it as a sub-bullet of the deaths statistic. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjbIVnnMT18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjbIVnnMT18

ttul 7y ago
Perhaps residents of WA will now contemplate the wisdom of higher taxes.

robomartin 7y ago

A couple of observations: First, most of what’s out there in the media and popular discussion is nothing less than ignorant. Sometimes I feel people watch too many movies and think they are real. Under normal conditions it can take over a year to go from nothing to making something as simple as a certified N95 mask at scale. Under normal conditions component lead times in electronics can easily be in the 8 to 16 week range. Not to mention such things as manufacturing tooling, molds, test systems, etc. Making hardware is hard for a reason. It takes time, and money can’t always accelerate the timeline. And so, reporters pounding away at test kit, mask or PPE is ignorant and counterproductive. Making 100 million masks in haste could result in ineffective masks that provide little protection. This problem is exacerbated by a supply chain that has been the subject of major disruption. The sad reality is, when you don’t control the entire supply chain you can only accomplish so much. This is surely a lesson that might change the world post COVID-19. Aside from that. It seems to me converting cruise ships to temporary hospitals might be the quickest way to expand capacity. They are self-contained little cities with rooms for thousands.

gist 7y ago

Interesting life lesson for those who are not familiar is the concept I think it's called 'don't spit into the wind'. By this I mean all of the politicians who constantly gave Trump a hard time at each and every turn. I don't mean any in particular investigation and I don't mean they needed to agree and not criticize him at all at any time. But maybe they should have thought that this person 'The President' has the ability to give their region (or their state) what they need 'greenlight' and yes he should do it because 'it's the right thing to do' but human decision making and interaction is more than that. And people are people. This is no different for any political process or politician. Sometimes you have to simply (to use the phrase) 'not be a dick' if there is a person in power who can give you things you need to play the game. Doesn't mean you should like the game and doesn't mean it shouldn't be that way but in the end it is the way life often is.

doctoboggan 7y ago

Does anyone know if it is possible to volunteer for the Army Corps of Engineers?

chiefalchemist 7y ago

> Over the past days, an inspection team led by the Army Corps of Engineers, and including state officials from the Office of General Services, the Dormitory Authority of the State of New York Huh? What? How was this not already done? YEARS ago? What if this was something _fast_ moving? We knew a pandemic was inevitable. No stock pile of mask? No plan for ad hoc hospitals? If they're making it up as they go then what has FEMA, the DoD and the CDC been doing with our money? Using it for TP?

leto_ii 7y ago

This effort should be commended. However, I'm wondering, where are all the billionaires and corporations when the world needs them? I'm not even asking this flippantly. Seriously, how come they're not doing anything? Just for the past few months Bloomberg spent half a billion essentially to achieve nothing. Couldn't he repeat the feat and build a few hospitals to help out his home state? Or his country? How about everyone else?

dillondoyle 7y ago
* 1 billion...
asdff 7y ago
I believe he could repeat that feat 120 times and still be a billionaire.
- leto_ii 7y ago
  Indeed. Maybe we should demand it of him and of others in his position. Regular people are placed under a tremendous burden all over the world and they are expected to cooperate and to sacrifice. The very least the rich could do is shoulder part of the financial burden.

teddyvangogh 7y ago

Nobel laureate and Stanford biophysicist predicts a quicker coronavirus recovery: 'We're going to be fine' https://news.yahoo.com/why-nobel-laureate-predicts-quicker-210318391.html https://news.yahoo.com/why-nobel-laureate-predicts-quicker-2...

deleted 7y ago
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psabl 7y ago
Why is this downvoted? It is a reasonable article. The first SARS virus around 2000 was completely overhyped, the world was coming to an end back then, too. HN should be a place for collecting reasonable information, no need to suppress or censor information that does not fit your world view.
- seren 7y ago
  I think this is a reasonable article, but the headline is a bit click baity, given what are and will be the health and economic consequences. This is not Levitt fault but the editorial choice.
- gindely 7y ago
  This isn't like the first sars. The first sars was pretty contagious but not like sars 2. The first sars was pretty deadly but not like sars 2. The article seems reasonable, but people who are much more concerned about sars 2 than we were about sars 1 are rationally responding to very different circumstances - so I think your editorialisation misses the picture.
  - jaspax 7y ago
    You're underselling your case. COVID-19 has already killed 20x as many people as the 2002-2004 SARS outbreak, infected 40x as many, and it's still going up. Responding to this with "lol we've had this problem before" is just foolish.
  - seemslegit 7y ago

BrandonMarc 7y ago

Why didn't we start a month ago? 6 weeks ago?

deleted 7y ago
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huffmsa 7y ago

All of those shipping container to modular homes should be working on making mobile hospital wards. Doesn't need to be fancy, just functional and better than being in a tent. Need someone to coordinate it though.