10 ms·

Canadians name top appliance brands that break down

109 points by colinprince 7y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 7y ago
where is the list of companies?
- themew 7y ago
  In the graphic near the bottom of the article.
Marsymars 7y ago
My new Samsung washing machine started leaking water onto my floor within a couple years of purchase. At least the Wi-Fi still worked.
- Jerry2 7y ago
  > At least the Wi-Fi still worked. Did it at least send you a message that it was leaking? Heh. I'm a big proponent of 'dumb appliances'. The less they do, the better. All this IoT-ification of everything is madness. It just introduces points of failure, attack surfaces and privacy intrusions for no benefit for the consumer whatsoever. Oh, and they're nearly impossible to repair because everything's DRMed and microcontrollers actively prevent you from fixing things with 'unauthorized parts'. My household still has 15 year old Maytag appliances that still work perfectly and have no DRM in them. I plan on fixing them until the day I die because I really don't want to deal with this new mess.
  - ajxs 7y ago
    I could not agree more. I hope a market for brainless appliances remains far into the future. I would personally pay far more for appliances that have no DRM, no data collection, no intelligence of any kind.
  - briandear 7y ago
    > The less they do, the better You are g’damned right. I like purpose-built, high quality things/tools that do one thing perfectly. TVs are another example or where this goes wrong. Irons, toasters, blenders, microwaves — all products that I will happily spend more money for the fewer features they have.
  - donmcronald 7y ago
    I remember reading an article about point and shoot cameras becoming popular because most users don't adjust any settings away from defaults. I feel like appliances are the same. Ours have a ton of options on them, but only a few are used. I could literally use a washer with cold/warm/hot and that's it.
- beart 7y ago
  I had this issue. in my case it was due to clogged up drainage. once I cleaned it out, especially around the door seal, the leaking stopped.
- maire 7y ago
  I was surprised that Samsung was not on the list. It must be that Samsung is not popular in Canada. We bought the Samsung washer because it was highly rated by Consumer Reports. Boo on Consumer Reports. Our washer was defective from the factory. It had a deformed part that leaked water on the floor. Luckily we purchased the extra warranty. Unluckily Samsung was giving us the run around about fixing the washer. We even said that we would make the repair if they sent us the part. Boo on Samsung. Finally the store that sold us the washer replaced it and sent the defective washer back to Samsung. I wish I could praise the store (Western Appliance) - but they are sadly going out of business.
  - Marsymars 7y ago
    CR ranks Samsung pretty low for overall appliance reliability. Part of the problem seems to be that nobody makes highly-reliable front-loading washers for home use. https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/who-makes-the-most-reliable-appliances/ https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/who-makes-the-mos...
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 7y ago
      I still remember that Samsung fridge that lasted 2 years. 1000€. Amazing.
  - stringyham 7y ago
    I see it ranked 5th in OP
- hnick 7y ago
  Our Samsung fridge's drip pan gets frozen up every couple of years and has to be defrosted or water starts collecting in the meat and vegetable drawers. They apparently used a metal heat conducting rod that was a little too short to work properly. But sadly, no WiFi to fall back on :(
nneonneo 7y ago
Meanwhile, the ancient Maytag fridge in our lab has been going for probably 20 years without fault (fingers crossed). I know there’s probably some survivorship bias, but it really does feel like appliances aren’t built to last anymore.
- anonsivalley652 7y ago
  My dad has a 40-year-old puke yellow Kenmoore refrigerator and 35-year-old Maytag washer & dryer. There's 2 axises of goods to think about that differ wildly: 1. the specific brand and model - some models may have regressions or design defects 2. the model year, manufacturing date and location - quality, reliability and cost-cutting measures vary with revision, manufacturing experience and who put it together (QA/QC doesn't catch every possible contingency)
- berbec 7y ago
  Isn't there still a light bulb burning from the 1900s?
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Only because it's being run so dim.
  - vibrolax 7y ago
    Livermore CA fire station
- MikusR 7y ago
  Does it follow all current environmental and efficiency standards and regulations?
  - yarosv 7y ago
    Is it better to have one machine that does not follow regulations, or throw away four onto the landfill, that does?
anonsivalley652 7y ago
Consumer Reports used to rate individual products and sometimes manufacturers with rankings and try to estimate TCO/repairs, but when I subscribed to the digital subscription to lookup gas water-heaters and gas tankless water-heaters, there were zero reviews. Maybe they've cut-back to just rating cars and TVs? I don't know. Are Bosch and/or Miele any good still? Also, Kirby vacuums eat Dyson's for breakfast, lunch, dinner and midnight snacks.
- milleramp 7y ago
  I have noticed that CR recommends Kenmore appliances higher than other reviewing sites. CR is supposed to be unbiased but I have noticed this trend over the past decade. Also on devices that I am very familiar with and have tested for my day job, I also don’t understand their reasoning. Besides this I continue to be a subscriber, their work on promoting consumer safety and privacy is a good thing.
  - computator 7y ago
    > CR recommends Kenmore appliances higher than other reviewing sites. I’ve noticed that too, but I’m still inclined to trust Consumer Reports more than any other review site. CR has real labs, real scientists/technicians, real methodologies for their tests, and they get their funding from grants, subscribers, donations, and not from advertising. With respect to Kenmore getting higher marks than they sometimes deserve, I think it might be because Kenmore contracts out everything they make. So for one year, in one market region (say, USA vs Canada), for one particular appliance, the appliance is fantastic but next year they’ve contracted it out to someone else and it’s awful. So my theory is that the Kenmore “brand” has far greater variation from year-to-year or region-to-region than brands that actually make their own products.
- m463 7y ago
  I used to trust Consumer Reports. But when print became online (which I subscribed to for a few years) they added tracking to their website. They used to have a strict no-advertising no-manufacturer-cooperation policy. Putting google and cdn links on their website is basically compromising and selling out.
derefr 7y ago
Hypothesis 1: things break down because they're cheap (and therefore must be made cheaply to be profitable), not because they're from bad brands. There aren't really any truly-awful brands; only some brands that are willing to cater to lower price-points than others, by producing cheaper (⇒ less-long-lasting) products. Holding price constant, an appliance is going to break down at pretty much the same rate no matter who you buy it from. There are no real fly-by-night manufacturers capturing more profit by making things cheaply and selling them with high margins. The market is too competitive for that. Hypothesis 2: landlords and condo developers will buy the cheapest appliances they can when furnishing units. Thus, they'll end up buying them from the brands that offer the lowest price-points. Take 1 and 2 together, and you might see an outsized number of complaints about appliances from certain brands breaking down, specifically from tenants of furnished homes/units; while other owners of appliances from those same brands might be confused by the claims, given that their appliances that they bought themselves (at more reasonable, non-bottom-of-the-barrel price points) have served them fine.
- marcinzm 7y ago
  >The market is too competitive for that. You're missing someone wanting to extract maximum money from a previously well viewed brand by cutting corners. Kenmore is, for example, owned by Sears which had reasons to maximize short term money.
- rkagerer 7y ago
  As far as I'm concerned if a brand is willing to tarnish their reputation by building cheap crap, they deserve the stigma that comes from it. I don't mind paying a premium for certainty in the longevity of what I'm buying.
computator 7y ago
> When asked to recall the manufacturer of the appliance that broke down, Kenmore was named more than any other brand, accounting for 21 per cent — or about one in five — of all appliance breakdowns in Canada. The above makes me wonder if they understand probabality and statistics. Kenmore is an extremely popular and long-standing brand in Canada. Of course a popular brand is going to have more breakdowns on an absolute basis than unpopular brands. If they had said something like, "Kenmore owners named Kenmore appliances as breaking down more often than owners of other brands", then I'd have more confidence that they corrected for the popularity, but they didn't say it that way.
- yellow_lead 7y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. The fact that they rank the most "broken down" brands is amusing too. Of course these just represent the five most popular.
- kitcar 7y ago
  Kenmore also doesn't manufacture most (any?) of their appliances, making this "study" even more nonsensical.
  - Igelau 7y ago
    Indeed. From the case in the article: > Brun del Re struggled to find a fix for his relatively new Kenmore refrigerator... the compressor, made by LG, had quit.
  - joezydeco 7y ago
    They never manufactured any of their appliances. There never was a Kenmore factory. Kenmore has been a brand label of Sears since the mail-order catalog days. Almost any and every manufacturer out there has been relabeled as a Kenmore at one time or another, from kitchen appliances (GE, Whirlpool, Amana, LG, Frigidaire, etc) to lawn mowers (Black & Decker, Briggs & Stratton) to air conditioners (GE, Fedders, Carrier, Amana). Similarly, the Die-Hard brand was used for automotive parts and the Craftsman brand was used for tools. Again, all made by other companies (Johnson Controls, Exide, Skil, Black & Decker, Stanley, Chamberlain, etc). What the OP article really points to is the breakdown of Sears in Canada, which for a long time was way stronger and more stable than the American side.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
rodgerd 7y ago
This is why I'm grateful for the Consumer Guarantees Act, which puts retailers and manufacturers on the hook for fit-for-purpose repairs. Saying "one year and a day, so buy a new one" doesn't cut it.
brailsafe 7y ago
This pretty much comports with my experience and impression over the last few years, which is that products in general just suck and are getting worse. It baffles me why people just spend money like crazy on stupid stuff, when just being able to work less would be of better value. I would never order a computer online not from Apple, because I'd have have little recourse if the thing was crap or DOA, and even then, Apple's products have decreased in reliability and consumer friendliness.
goldcd 7y ago
I've fixed the odd few bits and pieces over the years, and it's very satisfying. The problematic bit is normally tracking down the bit you need at a reasonable price. Occasionally you strike lucky - I think £15 for a new door-rack for my fridge, or find a place like elementman.co.uk (they just sell replacement elements for ovens) - but quite often you find yourself squinting at a poorly photographed bit of a dishwasher from a similar model number and wondering if it's the same. What would massively help is if all the bits were simply stamped with a unique part ID - and all these parts were listed in the manual. You could then search for the ID and get new/refurbished/pattern replacement parts and lookup the fitting reference. Or, when your fridge breaks, could just easily ebay all the parts that do work. Search for the model, see a list of the parts, check the ones you still have working and list.
- slavik81 7y ago
  Kenmore is good about that. I found replacement parts for my fridge, stove and dishwasher quite easily (repairing damage done to them). The sticker with the model number is in a standard location. Then you just look up the manual to get the part number[1]. Then buy the part[2]. For me the main problem was the expense. It was still cheap compared to a new appliance, but it's annoying to pay $50-$100 for a few bits of plastic. I didn't have much luck finding cheap parts on ebay, either. [1]: https://www.searspartsdirect.com/ https://www.searspartsdirect.com/ [2]: (Canadian) https://www.reliableparts.ca/ https://www.reliableparts.ca/
winrid 7y ago
A lot of these brands have nothing to do with the manufacturing anymore. They just rent out their name.
jcims 7y ago
Now we need a system to report which doctors lose the most patients. The amount of information asymmetry in healthcare, bolstered by regulations and justified by endless litigation, is difficult to navigate as a consumer.
- hnick 7y ago
  I have a feeling that if that statistic existed today, Asian doctors would be shown in an unfair light since the start of the year in many cities. Context and nuance is easy to lose.
Shivetya 7y ago
Odd list of appliance makers, Kenmore has their items built by GE, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, and Roper[0]. That is one of the difficulty facing consumers in that you might think you are buying from a better brand but in many cases you are not. [0]https://dengarden.com/appliances/How-to-Identify-your-Kenmore-Appliance https://dengarden.com/appliances/How-to-Identify-your-Kenmor...
ajxs 7y ago
Among other poor statistical methodology, it's not as though the average respondent to this poll is likely to have a reasonable sample size of appliances to compare. They're not saying "Out of the six refrigerators I own, the Kenmore breaks down most often." It's actually "I own a Kenmore refrigerator and it broke down at some point.", which is more or less entirely meaningless. If they sampled the population to find the proportion of owners of each brand that reported their appliance breaking and compared those results it would be slightly more meaningful.
dreamcompiler 7y ago
Major appliances used to last 20 years, but not today. This article tracks with my experience and with what several repair people have told me. Many of the "name brands" of yesteryear have consolidated and moved their factories offshore to save money. They've also started designing compressors specifically to last 5 years or less, and repairing or replacing a compressor costs more than a new fridge. The other trick (more common on washing machines) is to build electronic control boards that last 5 years or less, so when the washer breaks you have to pay $500 for a new control board. Washing machines used to have mechanical controls that lasted 30 years. Now we have electronic controls with no moving parts that theoretically could last forever but they die in a couple of years, usually because of poor power supply design or overheating. This is deliberate. The companies have figured out that customers will tolerate it and go buy a new appliance every 5 years. Every company wants that recurring revenue stream. Why doesn't competition solve this problem? Many of the big name brands (Whirlpool, Maytag, Amana, Kitchenaid, Jennair, etc.) are all the same company now [0]. Kenmore and LG are still separate but on the whole there's very little competition. The government should never have allowed this degree of consolidation. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlpool_Corporation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlpool_Corporation
- dreamcompiler 7y ago
  UPDATE: I was wrong. Whirlpool did in fact make Kenmore branded appliances for Sears (though Whirlpool wasn't their only manufacturer.) So Kenmore's not independent after all.
- amelius 7y ago
  This problem will be solved by service/subscription business models. If you pay for a service, it is in the interest of the supplier to make the product last for as long as possible.
  - twiceaday 7y ago
    Why would they let any business model take shape unless it makes them as much or more money?
  - 7y ago
anu7df 7y ago
In the US, websites like repairclinic and partselect have helped me save thousands of dollars in expenses on busted refrigerator and dishwasher. The first time I opened up that dishwasher was an eye opener. Cheap doesn't even begin to describe that piece of garbage. This was a 1000+ dollar whirlpool crap. Similar story with the Frigidaire refrigerator. What is confusing to me is the sheer number of oddly shaped parts that seem to work interchangeably with LG, Whirlpool, Frigidaire and Kenmore appliances. The only logical explanation is that they are all the same parent company and/or all of these are made in the same factory with different labels slapped on in the end. Just a speculation since I never really researched this.
- userbinator 7y ago
  The only logical explanation is that they are all the same parent company and/or all of these are made in the same factory with different labels slapped on in the end. You are absolutely correct. No single company actually makes all the parts in one appliance, and even if all the brands are owned by the same company, it will tend to use the same designs from that companies that make the individual components. The same reason you see (the same!) Bosch parts in a lot of different European cars, for example.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  I was amazed when my mom’s garage door opener broke to learn that they’re almost all the same inside and made by Chamberlain. I recommend you all remove the metal cover every 5-10 years and grease the nylon gears with marine grease. Once they dry out, the gears turn to snow. Also spray lithium/Teflon grease to the rollers and other moving parts. Overhaul costs about $60 in parts and an afternoon.
analog31 7y ago
My family has lived in the same house for about 15 years. It was empty of appliances when we moved in. I have repaired or replaced every appliance, some multiple times, including the water heater and furnace. Something I've learned is: There's a huge proliferation of repair info online. Folks love fixing things and blogging about it, or posting videos. And the parts aren't ridiculously hard to find. We had one recently, where our washer was leaking water onto the floor. A handful of video's later, I figured out that we were just using too much soap, and the suds were somehow getting into some vent tube. Less soap, leaking gone.
- ireflect 7y ago
  I love to hear other people doing this. In the last year I've repaired the dishwasher, washer, and dryer at my rental unit, and the dishwasher at our home. These are all old and cheap units but were surprisingly fixable. Lots of videos and service manuals online. I found all the parts I need at reliableparts.com (no affiliation) who have a location here in Vancouver, BC and who are always knowledgeable and helpful. I spend maybe $75 in parts (total for all 4 appliances) and a cumulative 6 hours of my time. Most importantly to me, I kept these things out of the landfill.
  - analog31 7y ago
    I've found that despite Sears having its ups and downs, Sears Parts Direct is an excellent source for parts in the US. In addition to saving money, I also save the time and inconvenience of either dragging something to a repair shop, or getting a repair service to come here. And I always make a point of getting my kids to watch and help. And don't get me started about bike repair. ;-)
  - tacoman 7y ago
    I have fixed and replaced control boards in both my Kenmore washing machine and oven. I've had to replace the duck valve in my Kitchenaid fridge (it got plugged and froze up, leaking water onto the floor). Without online videos, I don't think I could have done a few of the repairs I did. I had to do some soldering to fix my washing machine so I can see how some people wouldn't be able to do these things.
lupinglade 7y ago
As usual, you get what you pay for. Junk appliances are all over our stores here in Canada.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  I think the biggest complainers are those that paid $2k for a fridge and still had it fail.
mberning 7y ago
Is Samsung not in Canada? Hard to believe the are not in the top 5.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  They are.
kludgekraft 7y ago
An increasing number of brands are just that, brands. They buy product from china, slap their logo onto the product and go to market. If consumers complain of poor quality, brands look for a new OEM, but cannot do much more. Service is often outsourced to other companies making the brand incentivised even less.
jungletime 7y ago
Imagine being a landlord, owning a few properties, and experiencing this failure rate. I wouldn't be surprised that this might affect rental prices on a huge scale. I own just a few rental properties, but I'm constantly fixing things. Just in the last month. Delta faucet that had a plastic mixing valve, broke off. 5 hours to fix. Water damage to the vanity. While fixing the vale, noticed a year old baseboard heater in the same bathroom, that cover fell off. Exposing wiring. Possibly a deadly situation. Electric Water Heater, died at 6 years. 7 Hours to replace. Within the last year, I also replaced a washing machine and dryer. A closet door, so poorly made, the hinge broke out. A dish washer that works, but the plastic hinge for the detergent broke. A toilet flapper replaced twice. That also has a plastic handle for flushing that also broke. And this is just one property, in the last 6 months. Most of these things originally bought at a big name orange department store. While these appliance manufacturers might profit from selling new appliances. The losses they cause to the economy, are far greater than their profits. The reliable options are not really available anymore, at the orange store, or the blue store.
debian3 7y ago
I’m I the only one who is tired of replacing my appliances and each time something broke I now just replace it with commercial equipment. I had my vacuum sealing machine break on me (which is now a commercial one). Was nice to just call the company who instructed me to pop the hood open and we figured out what was wrong. It was just an off the shelf part at 2$ from Home Depot. I’m replacing everything with commercial. I don’t mind if my next toaster will need me to call an electrician, I just hate the idea of replacing my things and i love to fix them. I find that commercial equipment is much easier to fix. They build them expecting it will fail and they make parts available. The only one I have problem figuring out is dishwasher. The commercial one are very different, they are basically build to do multiple washes in a short amount of time. They also tends to leak water on the floor. So for residential use it’s not so convenient. If anyone know something I don’t, let me know. Might have to replace my 12 years old asko dishwasher soon.
AzzieElbab 7y ago
Looks like stats are basically a reflection of most frequently bought brands. No one reported a broken Souz fridge because no one ever bought one

109 points by colinprince 7y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 7y ago

where is the list of companies?

themew 7y ago
In the graphic near the bottom of the article.

Marsymars 7y ago

My new Samsung washing machine started leaking water onto my floor within a couple years of purchase. At least the Wi-Fi still worked.

Jerry2 7y ago
> At least the Wi-Fi still worked. Did it at least send you a message that it was leaking? Heh. I'm a big proponent of 'dumb appliances'. The less they do, the better. All this IoT-ification of everything is madness. It just introduces points of failure, attack surfaces and privacy intrusions for no benefit for the consumer whatsoever. Oh, and they're nearly impossible to repair because everything's DRMed and microcontrollers actively prevent you from fixing things with 'unauthorized parts'. My household still has 15 year old Maytag appliances that still work perfectly and have no DRM in them. I plan on fixing them until the day I die because I really don't want to deal with this new mess.
- ajxs 7y ago
  I could not agree more. I hope a market for brainless appliances remains far into the future. I would personally pay far more for appliances that have no DRM, no data collection, no intelligence of any kind.
- briandear 7y ago
  > The less they do, the better You are g’damned right. I like purpose-built, high quality things/tools that do one thing perfectly. TVs are another example or where this goes wrong. Irons, toasters, blenders, microwaves — all products that I will happily spend more money for the fewer features they have.
- donmcronald 7y ago
  I remember reading an article about point and shoot cameras becoming popular because most users don't adjust any settings away from defaults. I feel like appliances are the same. Ours have a ton of options on them, but only a few are used. I could literally use a washer with cold/warm/hot and that's it.
beart 7y ago
I had this issue. in my case it was due to clogged up drainage. once I cleaned it out, especially around the door seal, the leaking stopped.
maire 7y ago
I was surprised that Samsung was not on the list. It must be that Samsung is not popular in Canada. We bought the Samsung washer because it was highly rated by Consumer Reports. Boo on Consumer Reports. Our washer was defective from the factory. It had a deformed part that leaked water on the floor. Luckily we purchased the extra warranty. Unluckily Samsung was giving us the run around about fixing the washer. We even said that we would make the repair if they sent us the part. Boo on Samsung. Finally the store that sold us the washer replaced it and sent the defective washer back to Samsung. I wish I could praise the store (Western Appliance) - but they are sadly going out of business.
- Marsymars 7y ago
  CR ranks Samsung pretty low for overall appliance reliability. Part of the problem seems to be that nobody makes highly-reliable front-loading washers for home use. https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/who-makes-the-most-reliable-appliances/ https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/who-makes-the-mos...
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 7y ago
    I still remember that Samsung fridge that lasted 2 years. 1000€. Amazing.
- stringyham 7y ago
  I see it ranked 5th in OP
hnick 7y ago
Our Samsung fridge's drip pan gets frozen up every couple of years and has to be defrosted or water starts collecting in the meat and vegetable drawers. They apparently used a metal heat conducting rod that was a little too short to work properly. But sadly, no WiFi to fall back on :(

nneonneo 7y ago

Meanwhile, the ancient Maytag fridge in our lab has been going for probably 20 years without fault (fingers crossed). I know there’s probably some survivorship bias, but it really does feel like appliances aren’t built to last anymore.

anonsivalley652 7y ago
My dad has a 40-year-old puke yellow Kenmoore refrigerator and 35-year-old Maytag washer & dryer. There's 2 axises of goods to think about that differ wildly: 1. the specific brand and model - some models may have regressions or design defects 2. the model year, manufacturing date and location - quality, reliability and cost-cutting measures vary with revision, manufacturing experience and who put it together (QA/QC doesn't catch every possible contingency)
berbec 7y ago
Isn't there still a light bulb burning from the 1900s?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Only because it's being run so dim.
- vibrolax 7y ago
  Livermore CA fire station
MikusR 7y ago
Does it follow all current environmental and efficiency standards and regulations?
- yarosv 7y ago
  Is it better to have one machine that does not follow regulations, or throw away four onto the landfill, that does?

anonsivalley652 7y ago

Consumer Reports used to rate individual products and sometimes manufacturers with rankings and try to estimate TCO/repairs, but when I subscribed to the digital subscription to lookup gas water-heaters and gas tankless water-heaters, there were zero reviews. Maybe they've cut-back to just rating cars and TVs? I don't know. Are Bosch and/or Miele any good still? Also, Kirby vacuums eat Dyson's for breakfast, lunch, dinner and midnight snacks.

milleramp 7y ago
I have noticed that CR recommends Kenmore appliances higher than other reviewing sites. CR is supposed to be unbiased but I have noticed this trend over the past decade. Also on devices that I am very familiar with and have tested for my day job, I also don’t understand their reasoning. Besides this I continue to be a subscriber, their work on promoting consumer safety and privacy is a good thing.
- computator 7y ago
  > CR recommends Kenmore appliances higher than other reviewing sites. I’ve noticed that too, but I’m still inclined to trust Consumer Reports more than any other review site. CR has real labs, real scientists/technicians, real methodologies for their tests, and they get their funding from grants, subscribers, donations, and not from advertising. With respect to Kenmore getting higher marks than they sometimes deserve, I think it might be because Kenmore contracts out everything they make. So for one year, in one market region (say, USA vs Canada), for one particular appliance, the appliance is fantastic but next year they’ve contracted it out to someone else and it’s awful. So my theory is that the Kenmore “brand” has far greater variation from year-to-year or region-to-region than brands that actually make their own products.
m463 7y ago
I used to trust Consumer Reports. But when print became online (which I subscribed to for a few years) they added tracking to their website. They used to have a strict no-advertising no-manufacturer-cooperation policy. Putting google and cdn links on their website is basically compromising and selling out.

derefr 7y ago

Hypothesis 1: things break down because they're cheap (and therefore must be made cheaply to be profitable), not because they're from bad brands. There aren't really any truly-awful brands; only some brands that are willing to cater to lower price-points than others, by producing cheaper (⇒ less-long-lasting) products. Holding price constant, an appliance is going to break down at pretty much the same rate no matter who you buy it from. There are no real fly-by-night manufacturers capturing more profit by making things cheaply and selling them with high margins. The market is too competitive for that. Hypothesis 2: landlords and condo developers will buy the cheapest appliances they can when furnishing units. Thus, they'll end up buying them from the brands that offer the lowest price-points. Take 1 and 2 together, and you might see an outsized number of complaints about appliances from certain brands breaking down, specifically from tenants of furnished homes/units; while other owners of appliances from those same brands might be confused by the claims, given that their appliances that they bought themselves (at more reasonable, non-bottom-of-the-barrel price points) have served them fine.

marcinzm 7y ago
>The market is too competitive for that. You're missing someone wanting to extract maximum money from a previously well viewed brand by cutting corners. Kenmore is, for example, owned by Sears which had reasons to maximize short term money.
rkagerer 7y ago
As far as I'm concerned if a brand is willing to tarnish their reputation by building cheap crap, they deserve the stigma that comes from it. I don't mind paying a premium for certainty in the longevity of what I'm buying.

computator 7y ago

> When asked to recall the manufacturer of the appliance that broke down, Kenmore was named more than any other brand, accounting for 21 per cent — or about one in five — of all appliance breakdowns in Canada. The above makes me wonder if they understand probabality and statistics. Kenmore is an extremely popular and long-standing brand in Canada. Of course a popular brand is going to have more breakdowns on an absolute basis than unpopular brands. If they had said something like, "Kenmore owners named Kenmore appliances as breaking down more often than owners of other brands", then I'd have more confidence that they corrected for the popularity, but they didn't say it that way.

yellow_lead 7y ago
I was thinking the same thing. The fact that they rank the most "broken down" brands is amusing too. Of course these just represent the five most popular.
kitcar 7y ago
Kenmore also doesn't manufacture most (any?) of their appliances, making this "study" even more nonsensical.
- Igelau 7y ago
  Indeed. From the case in the article: > Brun del Re struggled to find a fix for his relatively new Kenmore refrigerator... the compressor, made by LG, had quit.
- joezydeco 7y ago
  They never manufactured any of their appliances. There never was a Kenmore factory. Kenmore has been a brand label of Sears since the mail-order catalog days. Almost any and every manufacturer out there has been relabeled as a Kenmore at one time or another, from kitchen appliances (GE, Whirlpool, Amana, LG, Frigidaire, etc) to lawn mowers (Black & Decker, Briggs & Stratton) to air conditioners (GE, Fedders, Carrier, Amana). Similarly, the Die-Hard brand was used for automotive parts and the Craftsman brand was used for tools. Again, all made by other companies (Johnson Controls, Exide, Skil, Black & Decker, Stanley, Chamberlain, etc). What the OP article really points to is the breakdown of Sears in Canada, which for a long time was way stronger and more stable than the American side.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

rodgerd 7y ago

This is why I'm grateful for the Consumer Guarantees Act, which puts retailers and manufacturers on the hook for fit-for-purpose repairs. Saying "one year and a day, so buy a new one" doesn't cut it.

brailsafe 7y ago

This pretty much comports with my experience and impression over the last few years, which is that products in general just suck and are getting worse. It baffles me why people just spend money like crazy on stupid stuff, when just being able to work less would be of better value. I would never order a computer online not from Apple, because I'd have have little recourse if the thing was crap or DOA, and even then, Apple's products have decreased in reliability and consumer friendliness.

goldcd 7y ago

I've fixed the odd few bits and pieces over the years, and it's very satisfying. The problematic bit is normally tracking down the bit you need at a reasonable price. Occasionally you strike lucky - I think £15 for a new door-rack for my fridge, or find a place like elementman.co.uk (they just sell replacement elements for ovens) - but quite often you find yourself squinting at a poorly photographed bit of a dishwasher from a similar model number and wondering if it's the same. What would massively help is if all the bits were simply stamped with a unique part ID - and all these parts were listed in the manual. You could then search for the ID and get new/refurbished/pattern replacement parts and lookup the fitting reference. Or, when your fridge breaks, could just easily ebay all the parts that do work. Search for the model, see a list of the parts, check the ones you still have working and list.

slavik81 7y ago
Kenmore is good about that. I found replacement parts for my fridge, stove and dishwasher quite easily (repairing damage done to them). The sticker with the model number is in a standard location. Then you just look up the manual to get the part number[1]. Then buy the part[2]. For me the main problem was the expense. It was still cheap compared to a new appliance, but it's annoying to pay $50-$100 for a few bits of plastic. I didn't have much luck finding cheap parts on ebay, either. [1]: https://www.searspartsdirect.com/ https://www.searspartsdirect.com/ [2]: (Canadian) https://www.reliableparts.ca/ https://www.reliableparts.ca/

winrid 7y ago

A lot of these brands have nothing to do with the manufacturing anymore. They just rent out their name.

jcims 7y ago

Now we need a system to report which doctors lose the most patients. The amount of information asymmetry in healthcare, bolstered by regulations and justified by endless litigation, is difficult to navigate as a consumer.

hnick 7y ago
I have a feeling that if that statistic existed today, Asian doctors would be shown in an unfair light since the start of the year in many cities. Context and nuance is easy to lose.

Shivetya 7y ago

Odd list of appliance makers, Kenmore has their items built by GE, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, and Roper[0]. That is one of the difficulty facing consumers in that you might think you are buying from a better brand but in many cases you are not. [0]https://dengarden.com/appliances/How-to-Identify-your-Kenmore-Appliance https://dengarden.com/appliances/How-to-Identify-your-Kenmor...

ajxs 7y ago

Among other poor statistical methodology, it's not as though the average respondent to this poll is likely to have a reasonable sample size of appliances to compare. They're not saying "Out of the six refrigerators I own, the Kenmore breaks down most often." It's actually "I own a Kenmore refrigerator and it broke down at some point.", which is more or less entirely meaningless. If they sampled the population to find the proportion of owners of each brand that reported their appliance breaking and compared those results it would be slightly more meaningful.

dreamcompiler 7y ago

Major appliances used to last 20 years, but not today. This article tracks with my experience and with what several repair people have told me. Many of the "name brands" of yesteryear have consolidated and moved their factories offshore to save money. They've also started designing compressors specifically to last 5 years or less, and repairing or replacing a compressor costs more than a new fridge. The other trick (more common on washing machines) is to build electronic control boards that last 5 years or less, so when the washer breaks you have to pay $500 for a new control board. Washing machines used to have mechanical controls that lasted 30 years. Now we have electronic controls with no moving parts that theoretically could last forever but they die in a couple of years, usually because of poor power supply design or overheating. This is deliberate. The companies have figured out that customers will tolerate it and go buy a new appliance every 5 years. Every company wants that recurring revenue stream. Why doesn't competition solve this problem? Many of the big name brands (Whirlpool, Maytag, Amana, Kitchenaid, Jennair, etc.) are all the same company now [0]. Kenmore and LG are still separate but on the whole there's very little competition. The government should never have allowed this degree of consolidation. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlpool_Corporation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlpool_Corporation

dreamcompiler 7y ago
UPDATE: I was wrong. Whirlpool did in fact make Kenmore branded appliances for Sears (though Whirlpool wasn't their only manufacturer.) So Kenmore's not independent after all.
amelius 7y ago
This problem will be solved by service/subscription business models. If you pay for a service, it is in the interest of the supplier to make the product last for as long as possible.
- twiceaday 7y ago
  Why would they let any business model take shape unless it makes them as much or more money?
- 7y ago

anu7df 7y ago

In the US, websites like repairclinic and partselect have helped me save thousands of dollars in expenses on busted refrigerator and dishwasher. The first time I opened up that dishwasher was an eye opener. Cheap doesn't even begin to describe that piece of garbage. This was a 1000+ dollar whirlpool crap. Similar story with the Frigidaire refrigerator. What is confusing to me is the sheer number of oddly shaped parts that seem to work interchangeably with LG, Whirlpool, Frigidaire and Kenmore appliances. The only logical explanation is that they are all the same parent company and/or all of these are made in the same factory with different labels slapped on in the end. Just a speculation since I never really researched this.

userbinator 7y ago
The only logical explanation is that they are all the same parent company and/or all of these are made in the same factory with different labels slapped on in the end. You are absolutely correct. No single company actually makes all the parts in one appliance, and even if all the brands are owned by the same company, it will tend to use the same designs from that companies that make the individual components. The same reason you see (the same!) Bosch parts in a lot of different European cars, for example.
Scoundreller 7y ago
I was amazed when my mom’s garage door opener broke to learn that they’re almost all the same inside and made by Chamberlain. I recommend you all remove the metal cover every 5-10 years and grease the nylon gears with marine grease. Once they dry out, the gears turn to snow. Also spray lithium/Teflon grease to the rollers and other moving parts. Overhaul costs about $60 in parts and an afternoon.

analog31 7y ago

My family has lived in the same house for about 15 years. It was empty of appliances when we moved in. I have repaired or replaced every appliance, some multiple times, including the water heater and furnace. Something I've learned is: There's a huge proliferation of repair info online. Folks love fixing things and blogging about it, or posting videos. And the parts aren't ridiculously hard to find. We had one recently, where our washer was leaking water onto the floor. A handful of video's later, I figured out that we were just using too much soap, and the suds were somehow getting into some vent tube. Less soap, leaking gone.

ireflect 7y ago
I love to hear other people doing this. In the last year I've repaired the dishwasher, washer, and dryer at my rental unit, and the dishwasher at our home. These are all old and cheap units but were surprisingly fixable. Lots of videos and service manuals online. I found all the parts I need at reliableparts.com (no affiliation) who have a location here in Vancouver, BC and who are always knowledgeable and helpful. I spend maybe $75 in parts (total for all 4 appliances) and a cumulative 6 hours of my time. Most importantly to me, I kept these things out of the landfill.
- analog31 7y ago
  I've found that despite Sears having its ups and downs, Sears Parts Direct is an excellent source for parts in the US. In addition to saving money, I also save the time and inconvenience of either dragging something to a repair shop, or getting a repair service to come here. And I always make a point of getting my kids to watch and help. And don't get me started about bike repair. ;-)
- tacoman 7y ago
  I have fixed and replaced control boards in both my Kenmore washing machine and oven. I've had to replace the duck valve in my Kitchenaid fridge (it got plugged and froze up, leaking water onto the floor). Without online videos, I don't think I could have done a few of the repairs I did. I had to do some soldering to fix my washing machine so I can see how some people wouldn't be able to do these things.

lupinglade 7y ago

As usual, you get what you pay for. Junk appliances are all over our stores here in Canada.

Scoundreller 7y ago
I think the biggest complainers are those that paid $2k for a fridge and still had it fail.

mberning 7y ago

Is Samsung not in Canada? Hard to believe the are not in the top 5.

Scoundreller 7y ago
They are.

kludgekraft 7y ago

An increasing number of brands are just that, brands. They buy product from china, slap their logo onto the product and go to market. If consumers complain of poor quality, brands look for a new OEM, but cannot do much more. Service is often outsourced to other companies making the brand incentivised even less.

jungletime 7y ago

Imagine being a landlord, owning a few properties, and experiencing this failure rate. I wouldn't be surprised that this might affect rental prices on a huge scale. I own just a few rental properties, but I'm constantly fixing things. Just in the last month. Delta faucet that had a plastic mixing valve, broke off. 5 hours to fix. Water damage to the vanity. While fixing the vale, noticed a year old baseboard heater in the same bathroom, that cover fell off. Exposing wiring. Possibly a deadly situation. Electric Water Heater, died at 6 years. 7 Hours to replace. Within the last year, I also replaced a washing machine and dryer. A closet door, so poorly made, the hinge broke out. A dish washer that works, but the plastic hinge for the detergent broke. A toilet flapper replaced twice. That also has a plastic handle for flushing that also broke. And this is just one property, in the last 6 months. Most of these things originally bought at a big name orange department store. While these appliance manufacturers might profit from selling new appliances. The losses they cause to the economy, are far greater than their profits. The reliable options are not really available anymore, at the orange store, or the blue store.

debian3 7y ago

I’m I the only one who is tired of replacing my appliances and each time something broke I now just replace it with commercial equipment. I had my vacuum sealing machine break on me (which is now a commercial one). Was nice to just call the company who instructed me to pop the hood open and we figured out what was wrong. It was just an off the shelf part at 2$ from Home Depot. I’m replacing everything with commercial. I don’t mind if my next toaster will need me to call an electrician, I just hate the idea of replacing my things and i love to fix them. I find that commercial equipment is much easier to fix. They build them expecting it will fail and they make parts available. The only one I have problem figuring out is dishwasher. The commercial one are very different, they are basically build to do multiple washes in a short amount of time. They also tends to leak water on the floor. So for residential use it’s not so convenient. If anyone know something I don’t, let me know. Might have to replace my 12 years old asko dishwasher soon.

AzzieElbab 7y ago

Looks like stats are basically a reflection of most frequently bought brands. No one reported a broken Souz fridge because no one ever bought one