23 ms·

N26 will be leaving the UK

529 points by vinnyglennon 7y ago

Zenst 7y ago
As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. I do frequent the web, youtube, bus stops, tubes, trains and utterly exposed to all forms of marketing. So from my perspective, this does seem like marketing failure from the start - at least from my perspective. Though the only real new Bank in the UK to do well, traction wise would be Metro Bank and that's only due to them having a solid high street offering and more so niche in that they are open near on all hours. Also associated app and online works well. But sorry, never even heard of N26 and is it initialy appears to tweak my interest that it may be something N64 related, would of at least had me read/look into it beyond that. Not even that happened, until now and only reinforces the lack of marketing carried out as testified by the aspect that I've never heard of them until now. That's a shame as marketing is usually an area in which startups/companies tend to overdo more than not do at all.
- TLightful 7y ago
  And here you are typing about them on hackernews. Seems like the marketing worked!
- SirHound 7y ago
  Their adverts used to be all over the tube. That’s the only reason I know of them (most people in know IRL opting for Revolut or Monzo)
  - treebornfrog 7y ago
    Yes I remember these, 'fast banking' was their motto.
  - iamben 7y ago
    They also had a card with a transparent part - if you were eating with friends and someone had one everyone would be "ohhhh, what's that?"
    - goatinaboat 7y ago
      Amex was issuing translucent cards in the UK in the 90s. By far the best looking card they ever did.
      - benbristow 7y ago
        My Amex Rewards card is translucent, got it last year.
- jrv 7y ago
  > Though the only real new Bank in the UK to do well, traction wise would be Metro Bank I'm not in the UK, but isn't Monzo also doing quite well?
  - adamt 7y ago
    Indeed - Monzo has 50% of challenger bank market share. N26 was almost behind Revolut and Starling and had little traction in the UK. Source: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-7647253/Monzo-accounts-half-UK-digital-challenger-bank-market-data-finds.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-7647253/M...
    - bradvl 7y ago
      Revolut has ~10m customers. Not all in the UK, but Revolut and Monzo both have enough accounts to be inside the top 10 current account providers in the Uk
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  > As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. They're a huge presence in mainland Europe, especially Germany, where they're the de facto bank of choice for all non-European immigrants living in Berlin, Munich, etc.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    Is there a specific reason for that, do they offer easy intl transfers or are very welcoming with support in many languages etc? I've vaguely known they exist but have only a few days ago seen one of their ads on public transportation (which doesn't say much, I'm not in the city a lot, but still).
    - chimeracoder 7y ago
      > Is there a specific reason for that They're the only one that allows you to enter a second name via "care of"[0] in the address, and German postal services won't deliver mail if no name on the envelope matches the person registered at that address. In other words, you end up in a catch-22 where you can't sign a lease because you don't have a bank account, and you can't get a bank account because you don't have a legal address yet. There are other ways to resolve this, but the easiest is "find a bank that will let you accept mail at the address where you're staying, even if you're not on the lease", and the only bank that does that is N26. [0] I forget the German term, but basically Ms. Alice Foo c/o Bob Bar Baz Straße 14 99999 Nowhere Germany
      - Tomte 7y ago
        "c/o" is fine, I've used that before. [edit – wrong:] The German-language equivalent (that most young people won't even recognize anymore) is "z. Hd." ("zu Händen" – "to the hands of").
        germanier 7y ago
        The German equivalent would be p. Adr. (although I haver never seen that much in the wild). z. Hd. is used in the opposite way, i.e. you write the actual recipient after it, not the address provider.
- princekolt 7y ago
  I'm still trying to understand the point of your comment, but regardless: You haven't heard of it. So what? People will be affected by this. This will also not be the only company who will have to leave the UK because they've deemed the cost of legalising their business there after Brexit is not worth the benefits. So you're either in denial about that fact or you think it doesn't matter, which perhaps works for you as a schadenfreude for the people affected? I don't get it.
  - ars 7y ago
    He's saying the reason they failed is nothing to do with brexit and everything to do with the fact that no one knew about them. But they are blaming brexit instead of their own failure.
    - greatpatton 7y ago
      No, it has to do with the fact that when you have a smaller customer base and additional cost when running on razor-sharp margin, it doesn't make the cut. So yes it has to do with the Brexit as this is the reason for future additional cost, especially today when EU negotiator said that it will be very unlikely for the UK to get financial services equivalence. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/11/barnier-tells-uk-dont-kid-yourself-about-financial-services-deal https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/11/barnier-tel...
      - Zenst 7y ago
        They started in the UK in October 2018 - more than two whole years after the UK voted to leave the EU. It's as if they never knew what the UK people voted for!
        greatpatton 7y ago
        At that time it was not certain that Brexit would be equal to no deal (at least for finance services). Now that this is the most probable outcome they have to take action.
- threedots 7y ago
  Both Monzo and Revolut have over 3m customers compared to 1.7m for metro bank. Starling is over 1m. So plenty of traction all for the challenger banks.
  - dazc 7y ago
    How many of those users are using Monzo/Revolting as their main bank though? I have Monzo for small expenses when travelling in Europe but my main accounts remain with Barclays. I am guessing a lot of people do similar although, I concede, it's hard to find numbers that will corroborate this?
    - benbristow 7y ago
      Monzo is my main bank where my salary comes in, my purchases are made and my bills come out. It works great and unless they start going South I wouldn't look back.
    - nailer 7y ago
      I don't know but I started using Monzo as a more convenient alternative to Barclays and as Monzo added features (and Barclays didn't) I switched my pay to go into Monzo. It's nor particularly hard to email your employer and let them know some new bank details, and the Barclays experience (particularly their slow balance updates) makes it easy to want to use something different.
- jen20 7y ago
  > Though the only real new Bank in the UK to do well, traction wise would be Metro Bank This probably indicates that you are not in fact as well exposed to bank marketing as you suspect - it's hard to argue that Monzo and Revolut have not done well.
  - stuartleigh 7y ago
    Or starling bank for that matter
  - Zenst 7y ago
    I'm aware of those two at least, but from people I know, not one had them and basing around that aspect of traction - sure that may well not represent the market, but at least I'm aware of them, unlike this N26.
    - madeofpalk 7y ago
      That's so strange/interesting because pretty much everyone I know in London uses Monzo. Granted, my circle is like "young tech/agency workers in London", but I notice people using it at cafes and stuff all the time.
    - Normal_gaussian 7y ago
      Banking is hard; and growing in Banking is hard. Monzo have only recently started advertising [1]; their word of mouth campaign had people sitting in virtual queues over 100k long. [1] https://www.marketingweek.com/monzo-first-ad-campaign/ https://www.marketingweek.com/monzo-first-ad-campaign/
    - samdjstephens 7y ago
      According to a quick search - Monzo had 3 million customers as of Sept ‘19 [1] vs Metro Bank’s 1.7 million in May ‘19 [2]. [1] https://monzo.com/blog/2019/09/16/three-million https://monzo.com/blog/2019/09/16/three-million [2] https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/about-us/press-releases/news/metro-bank-reports-strong-growth-in-customer-accounts-despite-challenging-quarter/ https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/about-us/press-releases/ne...
- krilly 7y ago
  I recently split a restaurant bill with 7 other early-twenty-somethings. I think 5 of us had Monzo (making things much easier). They have been immensely successful among the younger demographic. Monzo have been doing a lot of advertising on public transport in my city (can't speak about online ads because I don't see them). I know one person who uses N26 but he's from Germany, where I believe it's a lot more popular. Starling, Monzo, Revolut and N26 seem to basically be at feature parity with each other and their apps are incredibly similar.
- MrAlex94 7y ago
  > As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. They've had ads plastered all over central London tube stops.
- rvz 7y ago
  > As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. Funny and surprising you say this since I just saw a large N26 billboard in the London Tube Station at Angel Station; very unmissable as a Londoner using the tube these days.
  - Zenst 7y ago
    Yes, reading few comments about adverts, but none I saw, or recalled. Oh well, maybe I did see them and preglazzed - just wished that happened with all adverts, but alas no. Might be they created the perfect advert un-eye-catching for some demographics - certainly has me more curious now, maybe I just missed them. But many other adverts I saw and can't unsee, oh well.
- drcongo 7y ago
  I had heard of them, but only because their adverts on the tube were so bad that I couldn't work out what or who they were for.
- tempsy 7y ago
  They are the most funded neobank in all of Europe. I don't even live in Europe and have heard of them.
- mrjohnes 7y ago
  They ran tons of advertisement on the tube, impossible to miss unless you're walking while looking at the floor. Just google N26 tube ads.
- noobermin 7y ago
  This could, in fact, be their stab at marketing at least for EU countries they will still operate in.
- mr_isomies 7y ago
  Interesting. Maybe it's a demographic blind spot? I do all of my UK banking on Transferwise, and so have heard of or researched Revolut, N26, Monzo... In fact, I think that both Monzo and Transferwise are UK based, and I've definitely seen their ads in the tubel, know people who work there, etc. They also offered a solid metal card and lounge-access perks, so I suspect that their core demographic are young-ish "digital nomads". Maybe that's where most of their marketing went to?
frostyj 7y ago
probably just a company not big enough to deal with too many financial regulations.
- Benjammer 7y ago
  Uhm, they raised 300m on a 2.7b valuation somewhat recently... https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/09/n26-raises-300-million-at-2-7-billion-valuation/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/09/n26-raises-300-million-at-... Not exactly small.
seemslegit 7y ago
Well, unlike some N26 users who get their accounts locked without warning explanation or anyone to turn to - at least the UK gets a notice.
- btzll 7y ago
  Could you expand? People get their accounts locked for no reason?
  - seemslegit 7y ago
    Well there was probably a reason but they weren't told it and with N26 being online-only had noone to turn to, you can do a google/twitter search for someone getting police called on them for showing up at their Berlin HQ/Backoffice trying to get some answers.
    - bpfrh 7y ago
      To be fair, that is nothing unique to N26. In fact in austria easybank is also a bank that afaik only exists "online" and easybank is much older than n26. Edit: Forgot something
      - seemslegit 7y ago
        To be even fairer, this isn't even unique to online banks - regular banks in the US can "fire" customers without a reason and even if only because their heuristics find their profitability to be too low, but at least they get a notice and a chance to move their money.
  - odiroot 7y ago
    Yes, very common here in Berlin expat community.
    - seemslegit 7y ago
      I don't think it's about the expats specifically, native Germans just don't encounter it because they have little need for N26 in the first place and are mostly happy with their traditional banking services.
Symbiote 7y ago
> With the UK now having left the European Union, we will in due course be unable to operate in the UK with our European banking license. Isn't this still up for discussion? Since they're only giving two months notice, they could wait until much later in the year before shutting up shop in the UK.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  It's not like they couldn't obtain an UK license if they wanted to. Revolut got a banking license from Estonia to continue to operate in the EU. (For a company of their size) it's their choice, more than the effects of Brexit.
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    >Revolut got a banking license from Estonia to continue to operate in the EU. That doesn't really feel like a fair comparison.
- threeseed 7y ago
  Not really. Gove is warning businesses that there will be trade impacts: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-e... And if you don't have a deal on goods you absolutely won't have a deal on services.
  - nailer 7y ago
    Sure but trade is two way. The EU won't have a deal either. They want to continue selling cars, food, and everything else. The only thing with no deal being on the table is the UK being able to walk away, as a type of mutually assured destruction, rather than having to accept any deal offered by the EU.
treebornfrog 7y ago
Sad news, I've been using them for over a year, their card design is the most beautiful I've seen yet in the UK (1). (1) https://miro.medium.com/max/4000/1*XScUHKRVuzfiRKttAfJ64w.png https://miro.medium.com/max/4000/1*XScUHKRVuzfiRKttAfJ64w.pn...
- detritus 7y ago
  Mmm, not sure I'd agree with your estimation, but "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and all that. Seems a little form over function to me - I'm not sure how wonderful an idea it is being able to read the three security digits on the reverse. Not sure if I'm just paranoid, but I scrape those off every time I get a new card.
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    The CVC is behind the MasterCard logo on my N26 card.
    - detritus 7y ago
      That would work!
- zorbash 7y ago
  Indeed, their cards are neat. I no longer use it as both Starling and Revolut have better UX and charges. Some day hopefully startup banks might offer customisation options when you order your card.
jxramos 7y ago
Guess the value and quantity of their UK customers didn't warrant obtaining an equivalent "UK banking license"? > ... we will in due course be unable to operate in the UK with our European banking license.
danpalmer 7y ago
Businesses pulling out of the UK based on the Brexit process is bad for the UK, and I'm sure this was indeed mainly motivated by N26's need for a UK banking licence, which is a costly and difficult process to go through. However, it's worth noting that they are pretty small in the UK (~200k users). They're very successful in Germany where banking is a very slow, difficult, manually run industry (from what I've heard), but in the UK we have generally very good banking infrastructure – payments are normally instant and free, and there's a lot of consumer protection with things like the current account switching service guarantee. Startups such as Monzo and Starling started in this great infrastructure and now offer relatively compelling products, while the incumbents are getting to grips with modern tech and doing better than many people realise. N26 on the other hand just didn't have a compelling offering. They charged for most/all of their accounts (explicit charges for accounts in the UK are uncommon), they lacked features, and their marketing was unremarkable compared to the competition.
- _n_b_ 7y ago
  N26 is also very successful in France, whose banking industry is--I can confirm--very much slow, difficult, and _very_ manually run. They can charge fees for accounts because their fees are still so much lower than the incumbents they're displacing. (And you can do stuff without having to talk to your bank counsellor, at your one specific branch, in person... how novel!) So I can see how their model wouldn't be very good, or very disruptive, in places with more consumer-friendly banking options.
  - danpalmer 7y ago
    Exactly. I can fully understand how they might be a paradigm shift from that sort of banking ecosystem. For us it was just a bank that lacked features and had charges, without a memorable brand.
  - davidw 7y ago
    > at your one specific branch, Italy is the same way and it is awful. We signed up for our bank account at one specific branch of a bank in Padova, Italy, and it's impossible to do much besides withdraw some cash at other branches. It's so dumb.
tablloyd 7y ago
I'm skeptical of Brexit being the reason that N26 is withdrawing from the UK. They started operation in the uk in October 2018, over 2 years after the referendum result and 6 months before the UK was meant to leave until the date got pushed back.
- billpg 7y ago
  Back then, the government were still talking about keeping the same benefits of membership after we leave.
  - marrs 7y ago
    No, they were talking about doing that or leaving without a deal. That message didn't really change until the Chequers speech in July 2018, when no deal was essentially taken off the table.
    - threeseed 7y ago
      Leaving without a deal under May was a meaningless threat. It was never going to happen and Parliament had the numbers to prevent that from logistically happening anyway. The difference now is that Johnson has the numbers, the mandate and the will for a no-deal Brexit. And Gove has just warned businesses this is happening: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-e...
      - marrs 7y ago
        It's easy to say that with hindsight. At the time it wasn't so clear. Well, perhaps it was after the general election in '17. But then it was also clear that the political situation was very unstable and could change again at any moment, which it eventually did. It would have been pretty arrogant to presume that things were going to be business as usual.
    - thawaway1837 7y ago
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Brexit makes for a convenient scapegoat when your business isn’t compelling to U.K. customers.
- jamil7 7y ago
  You might be right, here in Germany the banks are extremely archaic and make things difficult if you're a foreigner and just moved here. N26 onboarding is streamlined (video call on your phone) and can be done in at least English and German, maybe other languages now they're expanding. They also invested heavily in native mobile experience first while the other banks where struggling to offer decent online banking.
  - dividuum 7y ago
    Not sure how that's today, but a few years ago their "mobile experience first" stuff resulted in quite some security issues: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money. That alone would be enough for me to not trust them with any of my money.
    - jamil7 7y ago
      Yeah I've seen the presentation thanks. I'm also not sure how their security stands today but theres no reason "mobile first" has to mean "bad security".
- rchaud 7y ago
  Isn't that the case for the majority of new businesses? It takes time and investment to build a customer base, and you might be in the red for the first few years. Better-capitalized companies like Uber, Dropbox and Spotify etc have been around for ~10 years and can't make a profit. You are thinking of this in terms of Brexit. N26 are thinking of this in terms of the costs of getting UK license and managing UK regulations on top of EU regulations, relative to what they think they can achieve in the UK. They decided it might be safer to stick to their existing market.
- 7y ago
SpeakMouthWords 7y ago
Worth noting that N26 was touted for a while as a grim reaper that would come to the UK with its vast capitalisation (at the time about 2-3x as a much as any UK mobile bank) and blow Monzo and Revolut away. A good lesson that a well-funded incumbent in another market can't always make the hop to a different geography with assured success.
- andy_ppp 7y ago
  I mean giving up so easily when they have the capital to become a bank in the UK is really the issue here. Sure, it would have been harder than inside the EU, the real story is about them having no customers :-)
butler14 7y ago
Out-competed by Monzo/Starling/Revolut and co. and blaming Brexit. Not the first to use that excuse, and certainly not the last.
- bartread 7y ago
  Yeah, I was thinking the same... along with "don't let the door bang behind you on the way out". Not that I voted for Brexit - quite the opposite as it happens, and I'd be a lot happier if we were still in the EU - but I don't have much patience with questionable excuses from businesses who failed to effectively compete with other companies in their space. If they were running a commercially viable operation in the U.K., or had realistic hopes of doing so in the foreseeable future, of course they'd have applied for a UK banking license. The only reason not to do so is if that isn't the case. Brexit has nothing to do with it, and I suppose we learn again that success requires more than just hubris and a truckload of money.
- threeseed 7y ago
  That's one interpretation. Another is that the imposed costs of Brexit e.g. compliance, privacy, data sovereignty especially since we are heading down the no-deal path make it too costly to compete. And fully agree that it won't be the last business to find it uneconomical to compete in the UK due to Brexit.
- buboard 7y ago
  do you know if these offer services to EU customers? and specifically business accounts?
  - benhurmarcel 7y ago
    Only Revolut offer services in the EU.
- imtringued 7y ago
  Assuming no Brexit they could have stayed in UK indefinitely because there would be no additional compliance costs.
eugenijusr 7y ago
This is not the first market this bank has pulled out from. A couple of years ago they stopped signing up people from two EU markets they previously served (Latvia and Lithuania) without any reason. Granted all existing accounts remained untouched, still these accounts get somewhat crippled functionality and their future is unclear. Although their app is great and I didn't have any big issues with the service itself, I'm somewhat wary of keeping any larger sums of money in my N26 account.
- s_dev 7y ago
  >I'm somewhat wary of keeping any larger sums of money in my N26 account. It's German. All savings are guaranteed by German gov up to €100k. This is not the case with Monzo or Revolut.
  - blibble 7y ago
    the exact same regulation applies to Monzo and Revolut as it applies to N26 (only the lender of last resort changes)
  - madeofpalk 7y ago
    > This is not the case with Monzo or Revolut What? This is just wrong. On Monzo's site it says: > As a fully regulated UK bank, your money’s protected up to £85,000 by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (or FSCS for short).
  - acta_non_verba 7y ago
    True. They’re protected up to £85,000 by the British Government instead.
    - zeku 7y ago
      They claim 250k USD in the US, via their partner Axios Bank. "All deposits are FDIC-insured through our partner bank, Axos Bank®, Member FDIC."
  - juskrey 7y ago
scarejunba 7y ago
The comments here are odd. N26 isn't making any political statements. They're just saying they don't want to apply for a UK banking licence now that they can't use an EU one. The response "they're only doing this because they can't make enough money in the UK" seems kind of vacuous. Of course that's why they're doing it. The cost of requiring a UK licence outweighs the benefit of being there. There seems to be some sort of desire to say "Brexit didn't cause this". It's pretty clear it did because they could previously operate without a UK licence and now they can't and it doesn't cost low enough to be worth it for them. I don't think it matters in the big scale since there's Monzo and Starling, but having the EU fracture will be annoying since markets will fracture. As for the criticisms of starting in the UK post the Brexit vote, I don't understand if you guys have run businesses before, but you have to take risks. Things can change, and for the right growth opportunity you go for it. As an example, post-GDPR I set up the European arm of our data business, and even though Brexit was on the horizon, we set up in London. Why? Because the opportunity was big enough and we could work our way to a solution in time that would meet what we needed and because (being entirely Anglophone) establishing a bridgehead in the UK made sense. It's a successful business now and we have teams in mainland Europe now. It's like running towards one of those closing doors so that you can slide under it like a hero. You don't want to be trapped under the door, but sometimes what's on the other side of the door is worth the risk.
- crusso 7y ago
  There seems to be some sort of desire to say "Brexit didn't cause this" You can look at it from the other side too, ie. why is this the top story on Hacker News? This isn't even a mildly interesting technology, development, startup, or hacker article - but a bunch of people saw something that could be blamed on Brexit so they hit the upvote button.
  - scarejunba 7y ago
    I'm sure there's quite some "Brexit is bad" piling on, which is silly since this is a small company. I did find it interesting to note that they wouldn't harmonize EU banking licences as valid in the UK or grandfather them in or something. I haven't lived in the UK for a few years now so I was surprised since the last time I voted there I recall minimizing disruption was a goal. Found it interesting on that note. If I were setting up an international business I'd surely do more research than just going off random press releases on HN but it's useful to get the mood of businesses.
ghastmaster 7y ago
The font on that page does not scale well.
gadjo95 7y ago
Rumor is that they are also going to cancel their launch in Brazil. I think they are just re-focusing and trying to make money instead of burning it. Launching in a new market is always expensive.
- zorked 7y ago
  TBH the neobank market in Brazil is kind of crowded and N26 doesn't have anything over those that started sooner.
  - nailer 7y ago
    I suspect N26 may also blame cancelling their Brazil launch on Brexit.
  - bloodm 7y ago
    Would you be so kind to give an overview over it (Brazil, both banks and brokers), incl. a recommendation? Thx
iamspoilt 7y ago
I am wondering if Revolut would follow the course as well?
- buboard 7y ago
  revolut is based in britain
axaxs 7y ago
N26 just launched in the US, also. If their UK launch was anything like their US launch, I can see why. They made a lot of promises about how much better they'd be, but their offering is terrible compared to the competition here.
kalium_xyz 7y ago
N26 has little on bunq though
Causality1 7y ago
"A 100% digital banking experience" I know this isn't the exact focus of the post, but I find that a little terrifying. I wouldn't be willing to trust all my holdings to a computer system with no ability to walk into a building with my birth certificate, photo ID, and social security card and have someone give me back my accounts should my identity be stolen.
- barnabee 7y ago
  I moved to Monzo as soon as they got a banking license and wouldn’t want to go back to an old bank with branches. Not only is their tech terrible but someone’s got to pay for all those buildings and people.
Rhardward 7y ago
Seem like another way of saying "We failed in the UK so lets blame it on Brexit" Haven't heard of anyone being a customer of N26.
B008L355 7y ago
who?
greatgib 7y ago
I understand their reasons, but I think that it is an abuse from them to close UK customers so fast. Imagine loosing your bank account suddenly in just 1 month. From what I see, nothing prevents N26 to continue operating until the end of the year in UK. So, they could have given a 3 or 6 months notice at least to their user. I'm not in UK, but because of actions like this, I'm more than encouraged to not be confident with them and not use this as a "primary account".
LockAndLol 7y ago
Compared to Revolut, they're pretty expensive. Additionally, their app doesn't work without google services like Revolut does, so you're completely crippled. And finally, their app doesn't look as good, nor does it have a view of your expenses. This isn't a big hit to England.
ArmandGrillet 7y ago
> we’ve already fully redesigned our mobile experience to simplify the actions that matter most to customers I couldn't contain my laugh reading that, sending money using the N26 app is a 12 steps process (no exaggeration) since the app update and the "AI" behind the categorization of spendings is an amazing garbage, e.g. I have a once a month recurring payment of the same amount from my landlord, I have categorized it a dozen of times manually but it still gets registered as... grocery shopping.
- Cenk 7y ago
  > sending money using the N26 app is a 12 steps process Not sure if we’re in different A/B test buckets or you’re in a different country and are using a different version but it’s four to five taps for me? Unless you’re counting the log in button and typing the amount as separate steps?
  - ArmandGrillet 7y ago
    Connect, Manage, Money Transfer, Choosing one, Naming it, Verification, Send, Identity Verification, Confirmation of Identity Verification. So 9 views/steps.
    - Cenk 7y ago
      Okay, we must have different versions of the app. On mine: Actions -> Bank Transfer -> Choose Recipient -> Enter amount -> Message -> Send -> Confirm The real question is, which one of these do you think is unnecessary?
monkeydust 7y ago
Think they just found the UK more competitive and advanced than what they expected. They could have got a UK licence but perhaps better ROI elsewhere. Don't think the UK loses much here.
thawaway1837 7y ago
Our company has opened several new Amsterdam offices thanks to Brexit already. Currently they have probably added low double digit jobs in Amsterdam, and cut single digit jobs in the UK (explicitly related to Brexit...net jobs in the UK are probably even). This may not sound like a lot, but for a company that operated in every EU country, but only had a single office, in London, that employs 1000s of really well paid employees, and had no plans at all to change anything, it’s a huge step. At the very least, London now has competition from Amsterdam in terms of European work, and EU employees will likely prefer moving to Amsterdam with free movement than to London with the hassles involved. And this is right at the beginning of Brexit at a time where nothing has actually changed thanks to the 1 year continuity period. If the deal that the UK strikes a year from now (which is only likely to make things worse) is substantially bad, then things may change very rapidly. Brexit was a decision by a generation that did not fight the wars, but always wished they did and that greatly benefited from the EU, but their desire to believe that they were being oppressed and they had to throw off the shackles from the oppressors, like their ancestors did, led them to screw the newer generations while they themselves are at the end of their lives and will barely suffer from the consequences.
- imtringued 7y ago
  The initial step is always the hardest. Choosing a suitable location for your EU presence can be a difficult task and if you can do everything from your HQ there is no reason to even find one. But once you have paid that cost upfront then you can arbitrarily choose to expand in either UK or EU (whichever makes the most sense).
symboltoproc 7y ago
Can anyone explain why they can not get a UK bank license and migrate their customer to the UK bank? I suspect that the main motivation is not Brexit but fiercer competition in the UK (e.g. Monzo).
- ztratar 7y ago
  Migrating banks puts your users through a migration themselves (new terms, transfers, new issued cards, etc). It's very difficult. On top of that, their UK business wasn't doing very well. So why double down on a losing bet and go through a ton of pain for it?
nottorp 7y ago
We are today a team of more than 1,500 unique talents of 80 nationalities, based across our offices in Berlin, Barcelona, Vienna, New York and São Paolo. Looks easy for them to leave the UK. No offices there. Anyone shutting down UK offices yet?
xvilka 7y ago
Despite thinking Brexit was a mistake, this is indeed a chance for the UK to modernize and improve its financial and banking industry, to make it even more attractive for non-EU capital, and to make London an even more international city. Assuming there is a will for that. After all gov.uk initiative was a success and still continues to improve.
carlsborg 7y ago
This is bad for innovation.
nilanp 7y ago
TransferWise.com/borderless is a pretty neat solution to a few of the problems N26 was solving. Anyone here - tried it out ? Disclosure: Been building this for 6 years :-)
wdb 7y ago
I didn't even knew N26 was active in the UK.

529 points by vinnyglennon 7y ago

As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. I do frequent the web, youtube, bus stops, tubes, trains and utterly exposed to all forms of marketing. So from my perspective, this does seem like marketing failure from the start - at least from my perspective. Though the only real new Bank in the UK to do well, traction wise would be Metro Bank and that's only due to them having a solid high street offering and more so niche in that they are open near on all hours. Also associated app and online works well. But sorry, never even heard of N26 and is it initialy appears to tweak my interest that it may be something N64 related, would of at least had me read/look into it beyond that. Not even that happened, until now and only reinforces the lack of marketing carried out as testified by the aspect that I've never heard of them until now. That's a shame as marketing is usually an area in which startups/companies tend to overdo more than not do at all.

TLightful 7y ago
And here you are typing about them on hackernews. Seems like the marketing worked!
SirHound 7y ago
Their adverts used to be all over the tube. That’s the only reason I know of them (most people in know IRL opting for Revolut or Monzo)
- treebornfrog 7y ago
  Yes I remember these, 'fast banking' was their motto.
- iamben 7y ago
  They also had a card with a transparent part - if you were eating with friends and someone had one everyone would be "ohhhh, what's that?"
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    Amex was issuing translucent cards in the UK in the 90s. By far the best looking card they ever did.
    - benbristow 7y ago
      My Amex Rewards card is translucent, got it last year.
jrv 7y ago
> Though the only real new Bank in the UK to do well, traction wise would be Metro Bank I'm not in the UK, but isn't Monzo also doing quite well?
- adamt 7y ago
  Indeed - Monzo has 50% of challenger bank market share. N26 was almost behind Revolut and Starling and had little traction in the UK. Source: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-7647253/Monzo-accounts-half-UK-digital-challenger-bank-market-data-finds.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-7647253/M...
  - bradvl 7y ago
    Revolut has ~10m customers. Not all in the UK, but Revolut and Monzo both have enough accounts to be inside the top 10 current account providers in the Uk
chimeracoder 7y ago
> As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. They're a huge presence in mainland Europe, especially Germany, where they're the de facto bank of choice for all non-European immigrants living in Berlin, Munich, etc.
- luckylion 7y ago
  Is there a specific reason for that, do they offer easy intl transfers or are very welcoming with support in many languages etc? I've vaguely known they exist but have only a few days ago seen one of their ads on public transportation (which doesn't say much, I'm not in the city a lot, but still).
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    > Is there a specific reason for that They're the only one that allows you to enter a second name via "care of"[0] in the address, and German postal services won't deliver mail if no name on the envelope matches the person registered at that address. In other words, you end up in a catch-22 where you can't sign a lease because you don't have a bank account, and you can't get a bank account because you don't have a legal address yet. There are other ways to resolve this, but the easiest is "find a bank that will let you accept mail at the address where you're staying, even if you're not on the lease", and the only bank that does that is N26. [0] I forget the German term, but basically Ms. Alice Foo c/o Bob Bar Baz Straße 14 99999 Nowhere Germany
    - Tomte 7y ago
      "c/o" is fine, I've used that before. [edit – wrong:] The German-language equivalent (that most young people won't even recognize anymore) is "z. Hd." ("zu Händen" – "to the hands of").
      - germanier 7y ago
        The German equivalent would be p. Adr. (although I haver never seen that much in the wild). z. Hd. is used in the opposite way, i.e. you write the actual recipient after it, not the address provider.
princekolt 7y ago
I'm still trying to understand the point of your comment, but regardless: You haven't heard of it. So what? People will be affected by this. This will also not be the only company who will have to leave the UK because they've deemed the cost of legalising their business there after Brexit is not worth the benefits. So you're either in denial about that fact or you think it doesn't matter, which perhaps works for you as a schadenfreude for the people affected? I don't get it.
- ars 7y ago
  He's saying the reason they failed is nothing to do with brexit and everything to do with the fact that no one knew about them. But they are blaming brexit instead of their own failure.
  - greatpatton 7y ago
    No, it has to do with the fact that when you have a smaller customer base and additional cost when running on razor-sharp margin, it doesn't make the cut. So yes it has to do with the Brexit as this is the reason for future additional cost, especially today when EU negotiator said that it will be very unlikely for the UK to get financial services equivalence. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/11/barnier-tells-uk-dont-kid-yourself-about-financial-services-deal https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/11/barnier-tel...
    - Zenst 7y ago
      They started in the UK in October 2018 - more than two whole years after the UK voted to leave the EU. It's as if they never knew what the UK people voted for!
      - greatpatton 7y ago
        At that time it was not certain that Brexit would be equal to no deal (at least for finance services). Now that this is the most probable outcome they have to take action.
threedots 7y ago
Both Monzo and Revolut have over 3m customers compared to 1.7m for metro bank. Starling is over 1m. So plenty of traction all for the challenger banks.
- dazc 7y ago
  How many of those users are using Monzo/Revolting as their main bank though? I have Monzo for small expenses when travelling in Europe but my main accounts remain with Barclays. I am guessing a lot of people do similar although, I concede, it's hard to find numbers that will corroborate this?
  - benbristow 7y ago
    Monzo is my main bank where my salary comes in, my purchases are made and my bills come out. It works great and unless they start going South I wouldn't look back.
  - nailer 7y ago
    I don't know but I started using Monzo as a more convenient alternative to Barclays and as Monzo added features (and Barclays didn't) I switched my pay to go into Monzo. It's nor particularly hard to email your employer and let them know some new bank details, and the Barclays experience (particularly their slow balance updates) makes it easy to want to use something different.
jen20 7y ago
> Though the only real new Bank in the UK to do well, traction wise would be Metro Bank This probably indicates that you are not in fact as well exposed to bank marketing as you suspect - it's hard to argue that Monzo and Revolut have not done well.
- stuartleigh 7y ago
  Or starling bank for that matter
- Zenst 7y ago
  I'm aware of those two at least, but from people I know, not one had them and basing around that aspect of traction - sure that may well not represent the market, but at least I'm aware of them, unlike this N26.
  - madeofpalk 7y ago
    That's so strange/interesting because pretty much everyone I know in London uses Monzo. Granted, my circle is like "young tech/agency workers in London", but I notice people using it at cafes and stuff all the time.
  - Normal_gaussian 7y ago
    Banking is hard; and growing in Banking is hard. Monzo have only recently started advertising [1]; their word of mouth campaign had people sitting in virtual queues over 100k long. [1] https://www.marketingweek.com/monzo-first-ad-campaign/ https://www.marketingweek.com/monzo-first-ad-campaign/
  - samdjstephens 7y ago
    According to a quick search - Monzo had 3 million customers as of Sept ‘19 [1] vs Metro Bank’s 1.7 million in May ‘19 [2]. [1] https://monzo.com/blog/2019/09/16/three-million https://monzo.com/blog/2019/09/16/three-million [2] https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/about-us/press-releases/news/metro-bank-reports-strong-growth-in-customer-accounts-despite-challenging-quarter/ https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/about-us/press-releases/ne...
krilly 7y ago
I recently split a restaurant bill with 7 other early-twenty-somethings. I think 5 of us had Monzo (making things much easier). They have been immensely successful among the younger demographic. Monzo have been doing a lot of advertising on public transport in my city (can't speak about online ads because I don't see them). I know one person who uses N26 but he's from Germany, where I believe it's a lot more popular. Starling, Monzo, Revolut and N26 seem to basically be at feature parity with each other and their apps are incredibly similar.
MrAlex94 7y ago
> As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. They've had ads plastered all over central London tube stops.
rvz 7y ago
> As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. Funny and surprising you say this since I just saw a large N26 billboard in the London Tube Station at Angel Station; very unmissable as a Londoner using the tube these days.
- Zenst 7y ago
  Yes, reading few comments about adverts, but none I saw, or recalled. Oh well, maybe I did see them and preglazzed - just wished that happened with all adverts, but alas no. Might be they created the perfect advert un-eye-catching for some demographics - certainly has me more curious now, maybe I just missed them. But many other adverts I saw and can't unsee, oh well.
drcongo 7y ago
I had heard of them, but only because their adverts on the tube were so bad that I couldn't work out what or who they were for.
tempsy 7y ago
They are the most funded neobank in all of Europe. I don't even live in Europe and have heard of them.
mrjohnes 7y ago
They ran tons of advertisement on the tube, impossible to miss unless you're walking while looking at the floor. Just google N26 tube ads.
noobermin 7y ago
This could, in fact, be their stab at marketing at least for EU countries they will still operate in.
mr_isomies 7y ago
Interesting. Maybe it's a demographic blind spot? I do all of my UK banking on Transferwise, and so have heard of or researched Revolut, N26, Monzo... In fact, I think that both Monzo and Transferwise are UK based, and I've definitely seen their ads in the tubel, know people who work there, etc. They also offered a solid metal card and lounge-access perks, so I suspect that their core demographic are young-ish "digital nomads". Maybe that's where most of their marketing went to?

frostyj 7y ago

probably just a company not big enough to deal with too many financial regulations.

Benjammer 7y ago
Uhm, they raised 300m on a 2.7b valuation somewhat recently... https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/09/n26-raises-300-million-at-2-7-billion-valuation/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/09/n26-raises-300-million-at-... Not exactly small.

seemslegit 7y ago

Well, unlike some N26 users who get their accounts locked without warning explanation or anyone to turn to - at least the UK gets a notice.

btzll 7y ago
Could you expand? People get their accounts locked for no reason?
- seemslegit 7y ago
  Well there was probably a reason but they weren't told it and with N26 being online-only had noone to turn to, you can do a google/twitter search for someone getting police called on them for showing up at their Berlin HQ/Backoffice trying to get some answers.
  - bpfrh 7y ago
    To be fair, that is nothing unique to N26. In fact in austria easybank is also a bank that afaik only exists "online" and easybank is much older than n26. Edit: Forgot something
    - seemslegit 7y ago
      To be even fairer, this isn't even unique to online banks - regular banks in the US can "fire" customers without a reason and even if only because their heuristics find their profitability to be too low, but at least they get a notice and a chance to move their money.
- odiroot 7y ago
  Yes, very common here in Berlin expat community.
  - seemslegit 7y ago
    I don't think it's about the expats specifically, native Germans just don't encounter it because they have little need for N26 in the first place and are mostly happy with their traditional banking services.

Symbiote 7y ago

> With the UK now having left the European Union, we will in due course be unable to operate in the UK with our European banking license. Isn't this still up for discussion? Since they're only giving two months notice, they could wait until much later in the year before shutting up shop in the UK.

raverbashing 7y ago
It's not like they couldn't obtain an UK license if they wanted to. Revolut got a banking license from Estonia to continue to operate in the EU. (For a company of their size) it's their choice, more than the effects of Brexit.
- Hamuko 7y ago
  >Revolut got a banking license from Estonia to continue to operate in the EU. That doesn't really feel like a fair comparison.
threeseed 7y ago
Not really. Gove is warning businesses that there will be trade impacts: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-e... And if you don't have a deal on goods you absolutely won't have a deal on services.
- nailer 7y ago
  Sure but trade is two way. The EU won't have a deal either. They want to continue selling cars, food, and everything else. The only thing with no deal being on the table is the UK being able to walk away, as a type of mutually assured destruction, rather than having to accept any deal offered by the EU.

treebornfrog 7y ago

Sad news, I've been using them for over a year, their card design is the most beautiful I've seen yet in the UK (1). (1) https://miro.medium.com/max/4000/1*XScUHKRVuzfiRKttAfJ64w.png https://miro.medium.com/max/4000/1*XScUHKRVuzfiRKttAfJ64w.pn...

detritus 7y ago
Mmm, not sure I'd agree with your estimation, but "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and all that. Seems a little form over function to me - I'm not sure how wonderful an idea it is being able to read the three security digits on the reverse. Not sure if I'm just paranoid, but I scrape those off every time I get a new card.
- Hamuko 7y ago
  The CVC is behind the MasterCard logo on my N26 card.
  - detritus 7y ago
    That would work!
zorbash 7y ago
Indeed, their cards are neat. I no longer use it as both Starling and Revolut have better UX and charges. Some day hopefully startup banks might offer customisation options when you order your card.

jxramos 7y ago

Guess the value and quantity of their UK customers didn't warrant obtaining an equivalent "UK banking license"? > ... we will in due course be unable to operate in the UK with our European banking license.

danpalmer 7y ago

Businesses pulling out of the UK based on the Brexit process is bad for the UK, and I'm sure this was indeed mainly motivated by N26's need for a UK banking licence, which is a costly and difficult process to go through. However, it's worth noting that they are pretty small in the UK (~200k users). They're very successful in Germany where banking is a very slow, difficult, manually run industry (from what I've heard), but in the UK we have generally very good banking infrastructure – payments are normally instant and free, and there's a lot of consumer protection with things like the current account switching service guarantee. Startups such as Monzo and Starling started in this great infrastructure and now offer relatively compelling products, while the incumbents are getting to grips with modern tech and doing better than many people realise. N26 on the other hand just didn't have a compelling offering. They charged for most/all of their accounts (explicit charges for accounts in the UK are uncommon), they lacked features, and their marketing was unremarkable compared to the competition.

_n_b_ 7y ago
N26 is also very successful in France, whose banking industry is--I can confirm--very much slow, difficult, and _very_ manually run. They can charge fees for accounts because their fees are still so much lower than the incumbents they're displacing. (And you can do stuff without having to talk to your bank counsellor, at your one specific branch, in person... how novel!) So I can see how their model wouldn't be very good, or very disruptive, in places with more consumer-friendly banking options.
- danpalmer 7y ago
  Exactly. I can fully understand how they might be a paradigm shift from that sort of banking ecosystem. For us it was just a bank that lacked features and had charges, without a memorable brand.
- davidw 7y ago
  > at your one specific branch, Italy is the same way and it is awful. We signed up for our bank account at one specific branch of a bank in Padova, Italy, and it's impossible to do much besides withdraw some cash at other branches. It's so dumb.

tablloyd 7y ago

I'm skeptical of Brexit being the reason that N26 is withdrawing from the UK. They started operation in the uk in October 2018, over 2 years after the referendum result and 6 months before the UK was meant to leave until the date got pushed back.

billpg 7y ago
Back then, the government were still talking about keeping the same benefits of membership after we leave.
- marrs 7y ago
  No, they were talking about doing that or leaving without a deal. That message didn't really change until the Chequers speech in July 2018, when no deal was essentially taken off the table.
  - threeseed 7y ago
    Leaving without a deal under May was a meaningless threat. It was never going to happen and Parliament had the numbers to prevent that from logistically happening anyway. The difference now is that Johnson has the numbers, the mandate and the will for a no-deal Brexit. And Gove has just warned businesses this is happening: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-e...
    - marrs 7y ago
      It's easy to say that with hindsight. At the time it wasn't so clear. Well, perhaps it was after the general election in '17. But then it was also clear that the political situation was very unstable and could change again at any moment, which it eventually did. It would have been pretty arrogant to presume that things were going to be business as usual.
  - thawaway1837 7y ago

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

Brexit makes for a convenient scapegoat when your business isn’t compelling to U.K. customers.

jamil7 7y ago
You might be right, here in Germany the banks are extremely archaic and make things difficult if you're a foreigner and just moved here. N26 onboarding is streamlined (video call on your phone) and can be done in at least English and German, maybe other languages now they're expanding. They also invested heavily in native mobile experience first while the other banks where struggling to offer decent online banking.
- dividuum 7y ago
  Not sure how that's today, but a few years ago their "mobile experience first" stuff resulted in quite some security issues: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money. That alone would be enough for me to not trust them with any of my money.
  - jamil7 7y ago
    Yeah I've seen the presentation thanks. I'm also not sure how their security stands today but theres no reason "mobile first" has to mean "bad security".
rchaud 7y ago
Isn't that the case for the majority of new businesses? It takes time and investment to build a customer base, and you might be in the red for the first few years. Better-capitalized companies like Uber, Dropbox and Spotify etc have been around for ~10 years and can't make a profit. You are thinking of this in terms of Brexit. N26 are thinking of this in terms of the costs of getting UK license and managing UK regulations on top of EU regulations, relative to what they think they can achieve in the UK. They decided it might be safer to stick to their existing market.
7y ago

SpeakMouthWords 7y ago

Worth noting that N26 was touted for a while as a grim reaper that would come to the UK with its vast capitalisation (at the time about 2-3x as a much as any UK mobile bank) and blow Monzo and Revolut away. A good lesson that a well-funded incumbent in another market can't always make the hop to a different geography with assured success.

andy_ppp 7y ago
I mean giving up so easily when they have the capital to become a bank in the UK is really the issue here. Sure, it would have been harder than inside the EU, the real story is about them having no customers :-)

butler14 7y ago

Out-competed by Monzo/Starling/Revolut and co. and blaming Brexit. Not the first to use that excuse, and certainly not the last.

bartread 7y ago
Yeah, I was thinking the same... along with "don't let the door bang behind you on the way out". Not that I voted for Brexit - quite the opposite as it happens, and I'd be a lot happier if we were still in the EU - but I don't have much patience with questionable excuses from businesses who failed to effectively compete with other companies in their space. If they were running a commercially viable operation in the U.K., or had realistic hopes of doing so in the foreseeable future, of course they'd have applied for a UK banking license. The only reason not to do so is if that isn't the case. Brexit has nothing to do with it, and I suppose we learn again that success requires more than just hubris and a truckload of money.
threeseed 7y ago
That's one interpretation. Another is that the imposed costs of Brexit e.g. compliance, privacy, data sovereignty especially since we are heading down the no-deal path make it too costly to compete. And fully agree that it won't be the last business to find it uneconomical to compete in the UK due to Brexit.
buboard 7y ago
do you know if these offer services to EU customers? and specifically business accounts?
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  Only Revolut offer services in the EU.
imtringued 7y ago
Assuming no Brexit they could have stayed in UK indefinitely because there would be no additional compliance costs.

eugenijusr 7y ago

This is not the first market this bank has pulled out from. A couple of years ago they stopped signing up people from two EU markets they previously served (Latvia and Lithuania) without any reason. Granted all existing accounts remained untouched, still these accounts get somewhat crippled functionality and their future is unclear. Although their app is great and I didn't have any big issues with the service itself, I'm somewhat wary of keeping any larger sums of money in my N26 account.

s_dev 7y ago
>I'm somewhat wary of keeping any larger sums of money in my N26 account. It's German. All savings are guaranteed by German gov up to €100k. This is not the case with Monzo or Revolut.
- blibble 7y ago
  the exact same regulation applies to Monzo and Revolut as it applies to N26 (only the lender of last resort changes)
- madeofpalk 7y ago
  > This is not the case with Monzo or Revolut What? This is just wrong. On Monzo's site it says: > As a fully regulated UK bank, your money’s protected up to £85,000 by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (or FSCS for short).
- acta_non_verba 7y ago
  True. They’re protected up to £85,000 by the British Government instead.
  - zeku 7y ago
    They claim 250k USD in the US, via their partner Axios Bank. "All deposits are FDIC-insured through our partner bank, Axos Bank®, Member FDIC."
- juskrey 7y ago

scarejunba 7y ago

The comments here are odd. N26 isn't making any political statements. They're just saying they don't want to apply for a UK banking licence now that they can't use an EU one. The response "they're only doing this because they can't make enough money in the UK" seems kind of vacuous. Of course that's why they're doing it. The cost of requiring a UK licence outweighs the benefit of being there. There seems to be some sort of desire to say "Brexit didn't cause this". It's pretty clear it did because they could previously operate without a UK licence and now they can't and it doesn't cost low enough to be worth it for them. I don't think it matters in the big scale since there's Monzo and Starling, but having the EU fracture will be annoying since markets will fracture. As for the criticisms of starting in the UK post the Brexit vote, I don't understand if you guys have run businesses before, but you have to take risks. Things can change, and for the right growth opportunity you go for it. As an example, post-GDPR I set up the European arm of our data business, and even though Brexit was on the horizon, we set up in London. Why? Because the opportunity was big enough and we could work our way to a solution in time that would meet what we needed and because (being entirely Anglophone) establishing a bridgehead in the UK made sense. It's a successful business now and we have teams in mainland Europe now. It's like running towards one of those closing doors so that you can slide under it like a hero. You don't want to be trapped under the door, but sometimes what's on the other side of the door is worth the risk.

crusso 7y ago
There seems to be some sort of desire to say "Brexit didn't cause this" You can look at it from the other side too, ie. why is this the top story on Hacker News? This isn't even a mildly interesting technology, development, startup, or hacker article - but a bunch of people saw something that could be blamed on Brexit so they hit the upvote button.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  I'm sure there's quite some "Brexit is bad" piling on, which is silly since this is a small company. I did find it interesting to note that they wouldn't harmonize EU banking licences as valid in the UK or grandfather them in or something. I haven't lived in the UK for a few years now so I was surprised since the last time I voted there I recall minimizing disruption was a goal. Found it interesting on that note. If I were setting up an international business I'd surely do more research than just going off random press releases on HN but it's useful to get the mood of businesses.

ghastmaster 7y ago

The font on that page does not scale well.

gadjo95 7y ago

Rumor is that they are also going to cancel their launch in Brazil. I think they are just re-focusing and trying to make money instead of burning it. Launching in a new market is always expensive.

zorked 7y ago
TBH the neobank market in Brazil is kind of crowded and N26 doesn't have anything over those that started sooner.
- nailer 7y ago
  I suspect N26 may also blame cancelling their Brazil launch on Brexit.
- bloodm 7y ago
  Would you be so kind to give an overview over it (Brazil, both banks and brokers), incl. a recommendation? Thx

iamspoilt 7y ago

I am wondering if Revolut would follow the course as well?

buboard 7y ago
revolut is based in britain

axaxs 7y ago

N26 just launched in the US, also. If their UK launch was anything like their US launch, I can see why. They made a lot of promises about how much better they'd be, but their offering is terrible compared to the competition here.

kalium_xyz 7y ago

N26 has little on bunq though

Causality1 7y ago

"A 100% digital banking experience" I know this isn't the exact focus of the post, but I find that a little terrifying. I wouldn't be willing to trust all my holdings to a computer system with no ability to walk into a building with my birth certificate, photo ID, and social security card and have someone give me back my accounts should my identity be stolen.

barnabee 7y ago
I moved to Monzo as soon as they got a banking license and wouldn’t want to go back to an old bank with branches. Not only is their tech terrible but someone’s got to pay for all those buildings and people.

Rhardward 7y ago

Seem like another way of saying "We failed in the UK so lets blame it on Brexit" Haven't heard of anyone being a customer of N26.

B008L355 7y ago

who?

greatgib 7y ago

I understand their reasons, but I think that it is an abuse from them to close UK customers so fast. Imagine loosing your bank account suddenly in just 1 month. From what I see, nothing prevents N26 to continue operating until the end of the year in UK. So, they could have given a 3 or 6 months notice at least to their user. I'm not in UK, but because of actions like this, I'm more than encouraged to not be confident with them and not use this as a "primary account".

LockAndLol 7y ago

Compared to Revolut, they're pretty expensive. Additionally, their app doesn't work without google services like Revolut does, so you're completely crippled. And finally, their app doesn't look as good, nor does it have a view of your expenses. This isn't a big hit to England.

ArmandGrillet 7y ago

> we’ve already fully redesigned our mobile experience to simplify the actions that matter most to customers I couldn't contain my laugh reading that, sending money using the N26 app is a 12 steps process (no exaggeration) since the app update and the "AI" behind the categorization of spendings is an amazing garbage, e.g. I have a once a month recurring payment of the same amount from my landlord, I have categorized it a dozen of times manually but it still gets registered as... grocery shopping.

Cenk 7y ago
> sending money using the N26 app is a 12 steps process Not sure if we’re in different A/B test buckets or you’re in a different country and are using a different version but it’s four to five taps for me? Unless you’re counting the log in button and typing the amount as separate steps?
- ArmandGrillet 7y ago
  Connect, Manage, Money Transfer, Choosing one, Naming it, Verification, Send, Identity Verification, Confirmation of Identity Verification. So 9 views/steps.
  - Cenk 7y ago
    Okay, we must have different versions of the app. On mine: Actions -> Bank Transfer -> Choose Recipient -> Enter amount -> Message -> Send -> Confirm The real question is, which one of these do you think is unnecessary?

monkeydust 7y ago

Think they just found the UK more competitive and advanced than what they expected. They could have got a UK licence but perhaps better ROI elsewhere. Don't think the UK loses much here.

thawaway1837 7y ago

Our company has opened several new Amsterdam offices thanks to Brexit already. Currently they have probably added low double digit jobs in Amsterdam, and cut single digit jobs in the UK (explicitly related to Brexit...net jobs in the UK are probably even). This may not sound like a lot, but for a company that operated in every EU country, but only had a single office, in London, that employs 1000s of really well paid employees, and had no plans at all to change anything, it’s a huge step. At the very least, London now has competition from Amsterdam in terms of European work, and EU employees will likely prefer moving to Amsterdam with free movement than to London with the hassles involved. And this is right at the beginning of Brexit at a time where nothing has actually changed thanks to the 1 year continuity period. If the deal that the UK strikes a year from now (which is only likely to make things worse) is substantially bad, then things may change very rapidly. Brexit was a decision by a generation that did not fight the wars, but always wished they did and that greatly benefited from the EU, but their desire to believe that they were being oppressed and they had to throw off the shackles from the oppressors, like their ancestors did, led them to screw the newer generations while they themselves are at the end of their lives and will barely suffer from the consequences.

imtringued 7y ago
The initial step is always the hardest. Choosing a suitable location for your EU presence can be a difficult task and if you can do everything from your HQ there is no reason to even find one. But once you have paid that cost upfront then you can arbitrarily choose to expand in either UK or EU (whichever makes the most sense).

symboltoproc 7y ago

Can anyone explain why they can not get a UK bank license and migrate their customer to the UK bank? I suspect that the main motivation is not Brexit but fiercer competition in the UK (e.g. Monzo).

ztratar 7y ago
Migrating banks puts your users through a migration themselves (new terms, transfers, new issued cards, etc). It's very difficult. On top of that, their UK business wasn't doing very well. So why double down on a losing bet and go through a ton of pain for it?

nottorp 7y ago

We are today a team of more than 1,500 unique talents of 80 nationalities, based across our offices in Berlin, Barcelona, Vienna, New York and São Paolo. Looks easy for them to leave the UK. No offices there. Anyone shutting down UK offices yet?

xvilka 7y ago

Despite thinking Brexit was a mistake, this is indeed a chance for the UK to modernize and improve its financial and banking industry, to make it even more attractive for non-EU capital, and to make London an even more international city. Assuming there is a will for that. After all gov.uk initiative was a success and still continues to improve.

carlsborg 7y ago

This is bad for innovation.

nilanp 7y ago

TransferWise.com/borderless is a pretty neat solution to a few of the problems N26 was solving. Anyone here - tried it out ? Disclosure: Been building this for 6 years :-)

wdb 7y ago

I didn't even knew N26 was active in the UK.