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I'm also convinced that we exit the plane in the worst way possible. We basically do it row-by-row: as the people in front of them leave, people in a row get up

I'm also convinced that we exit the plane in the worst way possible. We basically do it row-by-row: as the people in front of them leave, people in a row get up, get their bags, start walking down the line, and this cascades up the plane. The problem is that there is very little parallelism: while people in the next row to leave are getting their bags, no one is exiting the plane. This is similar to a stall in a processor pipeline. We want to avoid stalls, which mean that we want people exiting the plane constantly. A column approach would work much better: people in the aisle get their bags before the doors open, and start leaving as soon as it does. As columns drain, the next column can get their bags and start to leave. This approach keeps people leaving constantly, while also keep the aisle constantly populated. Yes, the person in the last column in the back row still leaves last, but I claim they will leave sooner. (edit: Thinking about it more, I actually think the people in the last column in the front row leave last. If you're in the back row, second column, you can stand up as soon as the person in the first column in front of you has started walking out. After the first column to leave, people will exit in reverse order because the openings will appears back-to-front. Trying to maintain front-row "fairness" will just result in a period of time where no one is in the aisle.) The reason we do the row-by-row method, I think, is that our sense of fairness is influenced by who we're looking at and proximity. We look forward, and we feel that the people closer to the door "should" leave first because they're closer, and we're looking at them, so we feel bad if we hold them up. But by doing the row-by-row method, we're holding up everyone behind us, but we don't look at them as much. I don't know how to enforce a column-by-column exit. Airlines can enforce how we get on the plane because they control, person at a time, who enters the plane. How we exit the plane is more cultural, and while an airline could certainly try to ask people to exit this way, it's much harder to make it happen.

efraim 7y ago
Also, people like to sit next to people they know such as family. A column approach sounds more effective, but it would split up people traveling together.
- scott_s 7y ago
  Very good point. And unlike boarding, trying to handle exceptions first or last doesn't really work because people are physically blocked from leaving their row. I've figured we'd never do this for cultural reasons, it's just something I ruminate over while traveling alone, staring at the empty aisle of a half-full plane.
- razorunreal 7y ago
  Seems to me the real problem is people in the same row who don't board together, since frequently someone has to squeeze back into the isle and block things until their neighbor is seated. Airlines know who booked together, couldn't they optimize the boarding groups flight by flight? If some people booked together and sit together, give them all the earliest boarding group that any individual member would have had.
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  Excluding children, for whom exceptions can be made, I'm not sure I understand why this is much of a problem. Does it really matter if you walk fifty feet without being next to your travel partner?
  - mc3 7y ago
    It might do, you are often not allowed to wait around as you walk from the plane to the terminal building and to passport control. You may be in different places in the queue. Now say one of you goes through to the first place you can wait, perhaps after passport control and before baggage collection. The other person doesn't turn up. You don't know why? Wait another 10 minute? Did they go through baggage area? Passport issues? Where do you meet now? You can't help them. Granted mobile phones, but not being split up is easier. Now friends sometimes end up in different seats, and you can probably get away with waiting somewhere, maybe on the plane itself to meet up, but if everyone is in the same boat it might be chaos to do that, and there is more incentive for airport staff to stop you.
    - wutbrodo 7y ago
ftio 7y ago
This sounds like it might be faster, and I might like it for solo business trips, but getting on/off with my family is not optional for me. Assuming most multi-passenger groups feel similarly, and assuming solo business passengers represent only ~40% of the population, the impact of such a system (which would require substantially more passenger discipline/planning) would be pretty limited.
- fiblye 7y ago
  Yeah, with this idea, people would just clog up right outside the airplane door waiting for their family. Anyone trying to get through would get some angry looks for daring to push through.
  - laumars 7y ago
    Assuming you can even split the family up. Plenty of people travel with younger kids (5 and under) and there's no way in hell that can be done safely without having the parents with them.
    - birdyrooster 7y ago
      Maybe exceptions can be made for children?
      - xvector 7y ago
        The fastest solution is having families with children exit last. If someone wants to exit together they can do so after everyone else is gone.
        crooked-v 7y ago
        That leaves people in window seats bottlenecked behind families.
        sjg007 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
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jaywalk 7y ago
I was on a flight a year or two ago where, upon landing, a woman turned her phone on and received a call informing her that her brother had passed away. She was understandably quite distraught as we taxied to the gate, and the lead flight attendant even made an announcement asking everyone to please remain seated so that she could exit the plane first. Nobody listened.
- eitland 7y ago
  I witnessed what seemed like a severe case of hypoglycemia in a passenger a few rows from me while stuck in a plane. The idea that someone might die because people cannot just listen is somewhat scary.
  - nradov 7y ago
    People did die on Aeroflot Flight 1492 because they didn't listen to instructions to leave their luggage behind. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/mcgee/2019/05/07/aeroflot-crash-were-lives-lost-cost-carry-ons/1128409001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/mcgee/2019/0...
    - nostromo 7y ago
      There's a lot of doubt about those early reports being accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_1492#Evacuation_with_luggage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_1492#Evacuatio...
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    I saw (just the seat in front) someone taken ill. The crew left the seatbelt sign on, and paramedics in uniform boarding meant everyone got the message.
- jbigelow76 7y ago
  ...the lead flight attendant even made an announcement asking everyone to please remain seated so that she could exit the plane first. Nobody listened. I find myself with a case of both sider-ism on this. One the one hand (the hand that really should win out), we should all be able to act as decent empathetic people with the instruction following capabilities of a 7 year old when the situation dictates. But on the other hand, when you treat (and pack) your customers like a bunch of damn cattle, don't be surprised when they act like a bunch of damn cattle.
jlg23 7y ago
The only time I witnessed passengers staying sit was after an announcement that said: "we know by experience that our pilots are much better at flying than at driving, so for your own safety, please keep seated until the 'fasten seatbelts' lights are turned off." There is no (legal) way to make the passengers disembark orderly...
maxerickson 7y ago
My experience has been that people exiting a plane could give a shit about fairness. It's a traffic jam where those closest to the door get there first, not anything ordered.
pacetherace 7y ago
Deplaning is not a very significant problem because there are other things that are being taken care of while it is happening. However, you can't start boarding until a certain point and from there until the plane leaves the gate, a lot of resources are locked.
- scott_s 7y ago
  It's not a significant problem for the airline. But for a passenger, staring at people wrangling their bags, blocking those already up with a clear aisle from them to the exit, it's frustrating.
  - nordsieck 7y ago
    > It's not a significant problem for the airline. But for a passenger, staring at people wrangling their bags, blocking those already up with a clear aisle from them to the exit, it's frustrating. Sure, but to airlines, that's a revenue opportunity, not a problem.
    - r00fus 7y ago
      If deplaning could be 5% faster without any impact to other factors, it'd be done immediately by all airlines. Just consider the knock-on effects in terms of flight on-time % for subsequent legs on a multi-leg flight.
      - wutbrodo 7y ago
        I dunno, boarding could be much faster if they did window, middle, aisle instead of the random order they do now, and I don't see any airlines picking up that proverbial $20 bill
- r00fus 7y ago
  You are thinking of a single flight as disconnected from the entire ecosystem - in reality, the gate is occupied, the next flight can't board, cleanup can't take place and probably a half dozen other things I can't think up. And costs go up dramatically if things are already behind. I'd say deplaning quickly is about as important as boarding.
slowhand09 7y ago
I think exiting should be "without bags in overheads - Now!" followed by front to rear general.
frankus 7y ago
Idle thought I had a while back: Let people who don't have anything in the overhead bins get off first.
- cogman10 7y ago
  People without stuff should sit next to the aisle. (and get on last)
  - JshWright 7y ago
    Without stuff in the overhead bin* I routinely travel with just a backpack that fits under the seat in front of me (packed for 3-5 days).
  - JCharante 7y ago
    On the contrary, a lot of people store stuff in the overhead bins that they will access during the flight, so sitting in the aisle is the best spot for them (if you're trying to minimize how many times the people in aisles have to put their tray table up and rotate their legs. On flights more 2 hours (so 6/9/14 hour flights) I'll put on the provided slippers and store my shoes in the overhead bin so my feet have more room. I usually travel with a backpack and a satchel, but my sound cancelling headphones take up a lot of space in my satchel, so before landing I'll put them back in my backpack. I usually have to go to the bathroom anyways before landing, so it isn't an extra get-up-out-of-seat-and-into-aisle-operation. Yesterday I saw someone get up to access the bin 4-5 times in a 14 hour span. They were conviniently short enough so that they didn't have to get out of their seat (just had to stand on it) to access the bin.
- tardo99 7y ago
  Yes. To implement this you simply lock the overheads while in final descent, which makes sense anyway for safety reasons.
- magduf 7y ago
  I can get my stuff out of the overhead bin in about 1 second. I have a better idea: people should have to go through qualification testing to see how fast they can grab their backpack out of the bin and start walking down the aisle. Fast people should get special dispensation, and slow people should be required to leave last. The problem is that too many people bumble around and take forever to do a very simple task.
cogman10 7y ago
This is where being a jerk would be beneficial for everyone. Simply put, the person at the front of the line should basically just ignore everyone and move forward. People aggressively jumping in gaps would even be OK because it would give people in the back time to grab their stuff and get organized. Being polite is what ends up slowing everyone down. (the same is not true for boarding. Back to front outside columns to inside columns would be far faster)
- alharith 7y ago
  You think it's beneficial. The people who are angered by the rudeness would not perceive it as beneficial.
alharith 7y ago
One of the problems is people who put their carry on luggage 4 or 5 rows down from their seat. This should just not be allowed, period.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  People don't have control over this. The overhead compartments near your seat are full and thus closed, so you must put them elsewhere. One person with two massive carry-ons can basically fill an entire compartment alone.
  - magduf 7y ago
    That's why the crew should be enforcing the bag limits. One person is only supposed to have 1 carry-on, and it's supposed to be a relatively small size.
    - JshWright 7y ago
      Generally it's one carry-on and one "personal item".
      - kortilla 7y ago
        Yeah, and the personal item is supposed to go under the seat in front of you.
        joegahona 7y ago
        Often the "personal item" is another suitcase. If given the position of power, I would decree that if your carry-on or personal item has wheels on it, it's not a carry on and must be checked.
        y_tho 7y ago
        I´ll get my duffel bag. Hope I don´t bump into anyone already in their seat.
CJefferson 7y ago
The obvious issue is, people sitting in rows are often together and want to disembark together. Often they are elderly or children, and need to disembark with the others in their row.
tardo99 7y ago
What they should do is disallow anyone from opening the overhead bins until all the people who didn't insist on carrying on all their luggage exit.
- dokem 7y ago
  I insist on carrying all my luggage with me because while you’re waiting at the luggage claim I’ve already left the airport.
thrower123 7y ago
The other common bottleneck with exiting is when you have to go back a few rows to get to where you had to stow your carry-on, because the plane was boarded from the front, and all of the overflow from the people who boarded ahead of you taking up the bins overhead of your seat.
gav 7y ago
> The reason we do the row-by-row method The seats at the front of the plane cost more money. The airlines want everyone who didn’t pay extra to suffer a little to encourage them to pay more next time.
- peteretep 7y ago
  I mean another take on this is that the airlines want the people who paid the extra money to get the benefits they paid for. Pisses me off to have paid for premium seating and then get caught in the general crush.
uoaei 7y ago
The whole aisle fills up pretty immediately upon the Fasten Seatbelt sign becoming unilluminated. As soon as this happens, there's no other option except the row-by-row method, like when a stoplight turns green on a bunch of waiting cars.
- d4rti 7y ago
  On the majority of flights I take, at least 15-25% of passengers remove their seatbelts and take their bags (or try) before the light is switched off.
ngoel36 7y ago
We do row-by-row because, generally, people with higher status and/or fares sit closer to the front -- and it feels more fair to let them off (and on) first, even if it costs minutes.
- magduf 7y ago
  Huh? No, that makes no sense at all. The fares are exactly the same in the entire section of the cabin, and only differ by section (i.e., business class costs more than economy, "economy plus" costs more than economy, etc.). Planes don't have different costs by row within the same section. We do row-by-row because we intuitively think that people closer to the exit should be able to get to the exit faster, even though this isn't really the case.
  - gpderetta 7y ago
    We do row by row because unless you litterally climb on top of those in rows further ahead than you (currently standing the isle and possibly getting their bagage) there is no other way out.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    I’m pretty sure fares for each person fluctuate greatly depending on when they purchase and what terms they had and what discount or upgrades they have.
    - magduf 7y ago
      Again, as I just wrote to the other responder, that has absolutely nothing to do with your seat location (within the same section). Seat 34F does not cost more than seat 35F.
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        Based on your other responses, what you intended to convey and what many people are interpreting are two different things. What everyone else is saying is that the person in seat 34F likely did not pay the same as the person in seat 35F (since they purchase at different times and the airline continuously changes prices), whereas what you are claiming is that 34F and 35F cost the same for the same person.
mjevans 7y ago
Take the seat-width served by an isle (if there's only one it's the plane width), round up. This is the 'sparring'. Disembark all of First class first, as it will have a different sparring and they paid more. For the remaining rows start with modulus = 0, then 1, then up to (sparring) N - 1. Dequeue those rows in parallel in N waves.
- bschwindHN 7y ago
  Good luck using your math on humans, I'm sure they'll all understand.
  - wutbrodo 7y ago
    Without commenting on the wisdom of the plan above: what in earth are you talking about? You don't just announce the equation and say good luck. You'd announce each row or range of rows in order, the same way you do for boarding (or in boarding's case, as encapsulated by boarding groups). The real issue would be compliance, not comprehension.
    - bschwindHN 7y ago
      > The real issue would be compliance, not comprehension. That's why I'm saying "good luck" Those "equations" don't account for human factors like families traveling together, elderly who need help getting their luggage down, or a sick passenger. You can't just throw out some mathematical solution to the problem and consider it solved, so what on earth were _they_ talking about?
      - mjevans 7y ago
        It does attempt to with the rows at a time feature, and if this is the known unloading procedure makes it much more likely for a family to actually book a row rather than seats in front and behind. The obvious exception is to make the kids just move when the adults do (clustering on the largest unit of adults). However this is more like a 'family exception' than a back of the napkin description of the algorithm.
Consultant32452 7y ago
I think boarding was covered in Freakanomics. Column boarding is technically fastest, but too impractical to coordinate. Just letting everyone randomly line up and enter the plane turns out to be the most efficient practical method, but no airlines do that. Edit: looks like my memory is poor... https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/11/theres-a-better-way-to-board-planes/383181/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/11/theres-...
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > Just letting everyone randomly line up and enter the plane turns out to be the most efficient practical method, but no airlines do that. Doesn't Southwest do that?
  - sib 7y ago
    Southwest's "lining up" process is not random; you get an assigned position in the line according to a set of factors. Once you start boarding, each person can sit in any seat that s/he wants.
    - sjg007 7y ago
      It's psuedo-random based on when you get your boarding pass (starting 24 hours). Essentially the quest for a non-middle seat conditional on distance to the front door.
- stephen_g 7y ago
  Most Australian airlines just let people randomly board, apart from letting priority passengers (disabled, business class, gold and platinum frequent flyers) board first. It does perplex me when I travel to other countries and experience complicated systems with boarding groups etc. that never seem any better than the random method!
mfgs 7y ago
I just wish people that had to wait 20 minutes for their checked in luggage to be unloaded would stay seated until others had exited.
- emiliobumachar 7y ago
  I always do that, and do not really understand why it's not more common, even using a completely selfish and self-serving perspective. That cramped aisle after everyone who could possibly get up did get up is damn uncomfortable, and those tiny seats get a lot roomier after my neighbors got up. My working hypothesis is "irrational herd behavior". I'd welcome any insights.
notduncansmith 7y ago
You can’t have constant movement, it has to come in waves because no-one wants to get up out of their seat as giant carry-ons are unloaded from above. My 2-bit idea is that we let passengers with no overhead luggage board and exit first. Let those who want to move at glacial speed do so, without slowing everyone else down.
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  As someone who hasn't checked a bag for a decade, this seems fair. I save a TON of time and hassle not checking luggage, and it seems only fair that those who do check luggage not be held up further by my choice.
  - cortesoft 7y ago
    Except the people who checked luggage are going to end up waiting at the luggage pick up anyway.
    - wutbrodo 7y ago
      Sure, but sitting on an airport floor (+ being able to go the bathroom, get water, wifi, etc) is better than half-standing in a cramped dry aircraft that you've spent the last X hours in.
      - cortesoft 7y ago
        You can stay seated, you don’t have to half stand.
billatq 7y ago
Personally, I’d like to be able to exit from multiple sides of the plane. Getting people to be orderly is hard, but at least you can half it.
- cortesoft 7y ago
  I used to always fly southwest out of Burbank, and they exit from the front and back. I would always board late and go to the back, and be the first one out. I got pissed when they started telling people during boarding about how they exit at our destination, and more people sat in back.
  - distances 7y ago
    This implies you could choose your seat, and the plane wasn't full. That sounds like a different era to start with.
    - cortesoft 7y ago
      Southwest still lets everyone choose their seat.... you get a place in line based on when you check in, and when you get on the plane you pick any seat.
taneq 7y ago
> I'm also convinced that we exit the plane in the worst way possible. We basically do it row-by-row: as the people in front of them leave, people in a row get up, get their bags, start walking down the line, and this cascades up the plane. This also has causes problems with weight balance - I've been on flights before where the attendants asked the back 10 rows to disembark first because otherwise the plane would nose up too much as the front lightened, and leave a gap between the door and the stairs.
glennpratt 7y ago
A much simpler solution is for aisle folks to help people in their row with bags while waiting. I'm obligated to do so with family, but it works other times too. Try it some time.
cortesoft 7y ago
I feel sorry for the person who has to wait with my two year old after I get off.
mattmaroon 7y ago
I think when you’re getting on the plane, you’re forced to adhere to airline rules, si boarding groups can give them real control over the situation. When you leave, what is the airline going to do if you don’t listen? Kick you off the plane you just left? You really can’t feasibly make people do this on the way out even if it would work.
- scott_s 7y ago
  Yes, that is what I said in the close of my comment.
asiachick 7y ago
You don't need to get off the plane 1-3 minutes earlier. In fact I doubt it would even add up to that. The spread between the first passengers off and the last, non doddling passenger is rarely that long. Families, friends, couples are not going to go for your rule that one of them should get off first and the other should wait for the entire rest of column to leave. How about just trying to be more patient? Find something to distract you and those 1 - 3 minutes will be over in a moment.
- lawlorino 7y ago
  Agreed, but this is HN so of course we need to endlessly argue and overengineer things in order to arrive at the most theoretically optimal solution which completely ignores practical issues.
- Drakar1903 7y ago
  Multiply that 3 minutes by however many passengers are on the plane and you're saving days of human existence.
  - scep12 7y ago
    There's much more lower-hanging fruit out there if your goal is reducing borderline unpleasant waiting experiences for humanity.
- mFixman 7y ago
  Those 1–3 minutes can make a difference in a small amount of cases, like tight time spaces in connecting flights. My ideal plane de-boarding strategy would be to separate everyone in a few groups depending on priorities (people with connecting flights, people without stowed luggage, ...) and mostly make sure that the ones that have to go down earlier do it.
- scott_s 7y ago
  I am patient - I distract myself by reasoning through how to improve the process.
Drakar1903 7y ago
If you only have a front door exit, then column-by-column would work for the first column, but then it would switch to row-by-row starting from the back, since the column moves forward, and that allows the last row people to join the end of the column first. If you have front and back door exits, the same would happen, but row-by-row would start from the middle of the plane.
reportgunner 7y ago
The problem here is that we don't have a common objective to fight for when exiting the plane. Other people don't care if you exit faster or slower, they only care to exit as soon as possible. There is no tangible reason to fight for having everyone exit at the shortest possible time so nobody simply does it, why should they ?
speleding 7y ago
I wonder if a mechanical solution could be used: fold away the arm rests and squash the seats together. 6 armrests folded away would make the isle twice as wide. This could make boarding and exiting more than twice as fast because you have double the capacity and people can overtake others stowing luggage. Interesting engineering challenge to design those seats. Perhaps leave the armrests and use a wormwheel to make the seats narrower is easier to implement. Could be hilarious if engaged while people are sitting in them.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

efraim 7y ago

Also, people like to sit next to people they know such as family. A column approach sounds more effective, but it would split up people traveling together.

scott_s 7y ago
Very good point. And unlike boarding, trying to handle exceptions first or last doesn't really work because people are physically blocked from leaving their row. I've figured we'd never do this for cultural reasons, it's just something I ruminate over while traveling alone, staring at the empty aisle of a half-full plane.
razorunreal 7y ago
Seems to me the real problem is people in the same row who don't board together, since frequently someone has to squeeze back into the isle and block things until their neighbor is seated. Airlines know who booked together, couldn't they optimize the boarding groups flight by flight? If some people booked together and sit together, give them all the earliest boarding group that any individual member would have had.
wutbrodo 7y ago
Excluding children, for whom exceptions can be made, I'm not sure I understand why this is much of a problem. Does it really matter if you walk fifty feet without being next to your travel partner?
- mc3 7y ago
  It might do, you are often not allowed to wait around as you walk from the plane to the terminal building and to passport control. You may be in different places in the queue. Now say one of you goes through to the first place you can wait, perhaps after passport control and before baggage collection. The other person doesn't turn up. You don't know why? Wait another 10 minute? Did they go through baggage area? Passport issues? Where do you meet now? You can't help them. Granted mobile phones, but not being split up is easier. Now friends sometimes end up in different seats, and you can probably get away with waiting somewhere, maybe on the plane itself to meet up, but if everyone is in the same boat it might be chaos to do that, and there is more incentive for airport staff to stop you.
  - wutbrodo 7y ago

ftio 7y ago

This sounds like it might be faster, and I might like it for solo business trips, but getting on/off with my family is not optional for me. Assuming most multi-passenger groups feel similarly, and assuming solo business passengers represent only ~40% of the population, the impact of such a system (which would require substantially more passenger discipline/planning) would be pretty limited.

fiblye 7y ago
Yeah, with this idea, people would just clog up right outside the airplane door waiting for their family. Anyone trying to get through would get some angry looks for daring to push through.
- laumars 7y ago
  Assuming you can even split the family up. Plenty of people travel with younger kids (5 and under) and there's no way in hell that can be done safely without having the parents with them.
  - birdyrooster 7y ago
    Maybe exceptions can be made for children?
    - xvector 7y ago
      The fastest solution is having families with children exit last. If someone wants to exit together they can do so after everyone else is gone.
      - crooked-v 7y ago
        That leaves people in window seats bottlenecked behind families.
        sjg007 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

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jaywalk 7y ago

I was on a flight a year or two ago where, upon landing, a woman turned her phone on and received a call informing her that her brother had passed away. She was understandably quite distraught as we taxied to the gate, and the lead flight attendant even made an announcement asking everyone to please remain seated so that she could exit the plane first. Nobody listened.

eitland 7y ago
I witnessed what seemed like a severe case of hypoglycemia in a passenger a few rows from me while stuck in a plane. The idea that someone might die because people cannot just listen is somewhat scary.
- nradov 7y ago
  People did die on Aeroflot Flight 1492 because they didn't listen to instructions to leave their luggage behind. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/mcgee/2019/05/07/aeroflot-crash-were-lives-lost-cost-carry-ons/1128409001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/mcgee/2019/0...
  - nostromo 7y ago
    There's a lot of doubt about those early reports being accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_1492#Evacuation_with_luggage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_1492#Evacuatio...
- Symbiote 7y ago
  I saw (just the seat in front) someone taken ill. The crew left the seatbelt sign on, and paramedics in uniform boarding meant everyone got the message.
jbigelow76 7y ago
...the lead flight attendant even made an announcement asking everyone to please remain seated so that she could exit the plane first. Nobody listened. I find myself with a case of both sider-ism on this. One the one hand (the hand that really should win out), we should all be able to act as decent empathetic people with the instruction following capabilities of a 7 year old when the situation dictates. But on the other hand, when you treat (and pack) your customers like a bunch of damn cattle, don't be surprised when they act like a bunch of damn cattle.

jlg23 7y ago

The only time I witnessed passengers staying sit was after an announcement that said: "we know by experience that our pilots are much better at flying than at driving, so for your own safety, please keep seated until the 'fasten seatbelts' lights are turned off." There is no (legal) way to make the passengers disembark orderly...

maxerickson 7y ago

My experience has been that people exiting a plane could give a shit about fairness. It's a traffic jam where those closest to the door get there first, not anything ordered.

pacetherace 7y ago

Deplaning is not a very significant problem because there are other things that are being taken care of while it is happening. However, you can't start boarding until a certain point and from there until the plane leaves the gate, a lot of resources are locked.

scott_s 7y ago
It's not a significant problem for the airline. But for a passenger, staring at people wrangling their bags, blocking those already up with a clear aisle from them to the exit, it's frustrating.
- nordsieck 7y ago
  > It's not a significant problem for the airline. But for a passenger, staring at people wrangling their bags, blocking those already up with a clear aisle from them to the exit, it's frustrating. Sure, but to airlines, that's a revenue opportunity, not a problem.
  - r00fus 7y ago
    If deplaning could be 5% faster without any impact to other factors, it'd be done immediately by all airlines. Just consider the knock-on effects in terms of flight on-time % for subsequent legs on a multi-leg flight.
    - wutbrodo 7y ago
      I dunno, boarding could be much faster if they did window, middle, aisle instead of the random order they do now, and I don't see any airlines picking up that proverbial $20 bill
r00fus 7y ago
You are thinking of a single flight as disconnected from the entire ecosystem - in reality, the gate is occupied, the next flight can't board, cleanup can't take place and probably a half dozen other things I can't think up. And costs go up dramatically if things are already behind. I'd say deplaning quickly is about as important as boarding.

slowhand09 7y ago

I think exiting should be "without bags in overheads - Now!" followed by front to rear general.

frankus 7y ago

Idle thought I had a while back: Let people who don't have anything in the overhead bins get off first.

cogman10 7y ago
People without stuff should sit next to the aisle. (and get on last)
- JshWright 7y ago
  Without stuff in the overhead bin* I routinely travel with just a backpack that fits under the seat in front of me (packed for 3-5 days).
- JCharante 7y ago
  On the contrary, a lot of people store stuff in the overhead bins that they will access during the flight, so sitting in the aisle is the best spot for them (if you're trying to minimize how many times the people in aisles have to put their tray table up and rotate their legs. On flights more 2 hours (so 6/9/14 hour flights) I'll put on the provided slippers and store my shoes in the overhead bin so my feet have more room. I usually travel with a backpack and a satchel, but my sound cancelling headphones take up a lot of space in my satchel, so before landing I'll put them back in my backpack. I usually have to go to the bathroom anyways before landing, so it isn't an extra get-up-out-of-seat-and-into-aisle-operation. Yesterday I saw someone get up to access the bin 4-5 times in a 14 hour span. They were conviniently short enough so that they didn't have to get out of their seat (just had to stand on it) to access the bin.
tardo99 7y ago
Yes. To implement this you simply lock the overheads while in final descent, which makes sense anyway for safety reasons.
magduf 7y ago
I can get my stuff out of the overhead bin in about 1 second. I have a better idea: people should have to go through qualification testing to see how fast they can grab their backpack out of the bin and start walking down the aisle. Fast people should get special dispensation, and slow people should be required to leave last. The problem is that too many people bumble around and take forever to do a very simple task.

cogman10 7y ago

This is where being a jerk would be beneficial for everyone. Simply put, the person at the front of the line should basically just ignore everyone and move forward. People aggressively jumping in gaps would even be OK because it would give people in the back time to grab their stuff and get organized. Being polite is what ends up slowing everyone down. (the same is not true for boarding. Back to front outside columns to inside columns would be far faster)

alharith 7y ago
You think it's beneficial. The people who are angered by the rudeness would not perceive it as beneficial.

alharith 7y ago

One of the problems is people who put their carry on luggage 4 or 5 rows down from their seat. This should just not be allowed, period.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
People don't have control over this. The overhead compartments near your seat are full and thus closed, so you must put them elsewhere. One person with two massive carry-ons can basically fill an entire compartment alone.
- magduf 7y ago
  That's why the crew should be enforcing the bag limits. One person is only supposed to have 1 carry-on, and it's supposed to be a relatively small size.
  - JshWright 7y ago
    Generally it's one carry-on and one "personal item".
    - kortilla 7y ago
      Yeah, and the personal item is supposed to go under the seat in front of you.
      - joegahona 7y ago
        Often the "personal item" is another suitcase. If given the position of power, I would decree that if your carry-on or personal item has wheels on it, it's not a carry on and must be checked.
        y_tho 7y ago
        I´ll get my duffel bag. Hope I don´t bump into anyone already in their seat.

CJefferson 7y ago

The obvious issue is, people sitting in rows are often together and want to disembark together. Often they are elderly or children, and need to disembark with the others in their row.

tardo99 7y ago

What they should do is disallow anyone from opening the overhead bins until all the people who didn't insist on carrying on all their luggage exit.

dokem 7y ago
I insist on carrying all my luggage with me because while you’re waiting at the luggage claim I’ve already left the airport.

thrower123 7y ago

The other common bottleneck with exiting is when you have to go back a few rows to get to where you had to stow your carry-on, because the plane was boarded from the front, and all of the overflow from the people who boarded ahead of you taking up the bins overhead of your seat.

gav 7y ago

> The reason we do the row-by-row method The seats at the front of the plane cost more money. The airlines want everyone who didn’t pay extra to suffer a little to encourage them to pay more next time.

peteretep 7y ago
I mean another take on this is that the airlines want the people who paid the extra money to get the benefits they paid for. Pisses me off to have paid for premium seating and then get caught in the general crush.

uoaei 7y ago

The whole aisle fills up pretty immediately upon the Fasten Seatbelt sign becoming unilluminated. As soon as this happens, there's no other option except the row-by-row method, like when a stoplight turns green on a bunch of waiting cars.

d4rti 7y ago
On the majority of flights I take, at least 15-25% of passengers remove their seatbelts and take their bags (or try) before the light is switched off.

ngoel36 7y ago

We do row-by-row because, generally, people with higher status and/or fares sit closer to the front -- and it feels more fair to let them off (and on) first, even if it costs minutes.

magduf 7y ago
Huh? No, that makes no sense at all. The fares are exactly the same in the entire section of the cabin, and only differ by section (i.e., business class costs more than economy, "economy plus" costs more than economy, etc.). Planes don't have different costs by row within the same section. We do row-by-row because we intuitively think that people closer to the exit should be able to get to the exit faster, even though this isn't really the case.
- gpderetta 7y ago
  We do row by row because unless you litterally climb on top of those in rows further ahead than you (currently standing the isle and possibly getting their bagage) there is no other way out.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  I’m pretty sure fares for each person fluctuate greatly depending on when they purchase and what terms they had and what discount or upgrades they have.
  - magduf 7y ago
    Again, as I just wrote to the other responder, that has absolutely nothing to do with your seat location (within the same section). Seat 34F does not cost more than seat 35F.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      Based on your other responses, what you intended to convey and what many people are interpreting are two different things. What everyone else is saying is that the person in seat 34F likely did not pay the same as the person in seat 35F (since they purchase at different times and the airline continuously changes prices), whereas what you are claiming is that 34F and 35F cost the same for the same person.

mjevans 7y ago

Take the seat-width served by an isle (if there's only one it's the plane width), round up. This is the 'sparring'. Disembark all of First class first, as it will have a different sparring and they paid more. For the remaining rows start with modulus = 0, then 1, then up to (sparring) N - 1. Dequeue those rows in parallel in N waves.

bschwindHN 7y ago
Good luck using your math on humans, I'm sure they'll all understand.
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  Without commenting on the wisdom of the plan above: what in earth are you talking about? You don't just announce the equation and say good luck. You'd announce each row or range of rows in order, the same way you do for boarding (or in boarding's case, as encapsulated by boarding groups). The real issue would be compliance, not comprehension.
  - bschwindHN 7y ago
    > The real issue would be compliance, not comprehension. That's why I'm saying "good luck" Those "equations" don't account for human factors like families traveling together, elderly who need help getting their luggage down, or a sick passenger. You can't just throw out some mathematical solution to the problem and consider it solved, so what on earth were _they_ talking about?
    - mjevans 7y ago
      It does attempt to with the rows at a time feature, and if this is the known unloading procedure makes it much more likely for a family to actually book a row rather than seats in front and behind. The obvious exception is to make the kids just move when the adults do (clustering on the largest unit of adults). However this is more like a 'family exception' than a back of the napkin description of the algorithm.

Consultant32452 7y ago

I think boarding was covered in Freakanomics. Column boarding is technically fastest, but too impractical to coordinate. Just letting everyone randomly line up and enter the plane turns out to be the most efficient practical method, but no airlines do that. Edit: looks like my memory is poor... https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/11/theres-a-better-way-to-board-planes/383181/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/11/theres-...

thaumasiotes 7y ago
> Just letting everyone randomly line up and enter the plane turns out to be the most efficient practical method, but no airlines do that. Doesn't Southwest do that?
- sib 7y ago
  Southwest's "lining up" process is not random; you get an assigned position in the line according to a set of factors. Once you start boarding, each person can sit in any seat that s/he wants.
  - sjg007 7y ago
    It's psuedo-random based on when you get your boarding pass (starting 24 hours). Essentially the quest for a non-middle seat conditional on distance to the front door.
stephen_g 7y ago
Most Australian airlines just let people randomly board, apart from letting priority passengers (disabled, business class, gold and platinum frequent flyers) board first. It does perplex me when I travel to other countries and experience complicated systems with boarding groups etc. that never seem any better than the random method!

mfgs 7y ago

I just wish people that had to wait 20 minutes for their checked in luggage to be unloaded would stay seated until others had exited.

emiliobumachar 7y ago
I always do that, and do not really understand why it's not more common, even using a completely selfish and self-serving perspective. That cramped aisle after everyone who could possibly get up did get up is damn uncomfortable, and those tiny seats get a lot roomier after my neighbors got up. My working hypothesis is "irrational herd behavior". I'd welcome any insights.

notduncansmith 7y ago

You can’t have constant movement, it has to come in waves because no-one wants to get up out of their seat as giant carry-ons are unloaded from above. My 2-bit idea is that we let passengers with no overhead luggage board and exit first. Let those who want to move at glacial speed do so, without slowing everyone else down.

wutbrodo 7y ago
As someone who hasn't checked a bag for a decade, this seems fair. I save a TON of time and hassle not checking luggage, and it seems only fair that those who do check luggage not be held up further by my choice.
- cortesoft 7y ago
  Except the people who checked luggage are going to end up waiting at the luggage pick up anyway.
  - wutbrodo 7y ago
    Sure, but sitting on an airport floor (+ being able to go the bathroom, get water, wifi, etc) is better than half-standing in a cramped dry aircraft that you've spent the last X hours in.
    - cortesoft 7y ago
      You can stay seated, you don’t have to half stand.

billatq 7y ago

Personally, I’d like to be able to exit from multiple sides of the plane. Getting people to be orderly is hard, but at least you can half it.

cortesoft 7y ago
I used to always fly southwest out of Burbank, and they exit from the front and back. I would always board late and go to the back, and be the first one out. I got pissed when they started telling people during boarding about how they exit at our destination, and more people sat in back.
- distances 7y ago
  This implies you could choose your seat, and the plane wasn't full. That sounds like a different era to start with.
  - cortesoft 7y ago
    Southwest still lets everyone choose their seat.... you get a place in line based on when you check in, and when you get on the plane you pick any seat.

taneq 7y ago

> I'm also convinced that we exit the plane in the worst way possible. We basically do it row-by-row: as the people in front of them leave, people in a row get up, get their bags, start walking down the line, and this cascades up the plane. This also has causes problems with weight balance - I've been on flights before where the attendants asked the back 10 rows to disembark first because otherwise the plane would nose up too much as the front lightened, and leave a gap between the door and the stairs.

glennpratt 7y ago

A much simpler solution is for aisle folks to help people in their row with bags while waiting. I'm obligated to do so with family, but it works other times too. Try it some time.

cortesoft 7y ago

I feel sorry for the person who has to wait with my two year old after I get off.

mattmaroon 7y ago

I think when you’re getting on the plane, you’re forced to adhere to airline rules, si boarding groups can give them real control over the situation. When you leave, what is the airline going to do if you don’t listen? Kick you off the plane you just left? You really can’t feasibly make people do this on the way out even if it would work.

scott_s 7y ago
Yes, that is what I said in the close of my comment.

asiachick 7y ago

You don't need to get off the plane 1-3 minutes earlier. In fact I doubt it would even add up to that. The spread between the first passengers off and the last, non doddling passenger is rarely that long. Families, friends, couples are not going to go for your rule that one of them should get off first and the other should wait for the entire rest of column to leave. How about just trying to be more patient? Find something to distract you and those 1 - 3 minutes will be over in a moment.

lawlorino 7y ago
Agreed, but this is HN so of course we need to endlessly argue and overengineer things in order to arrive at the most theoretically optimal solution which completely ignores practical issues.
Drakar1903 7y ago
Multiply that 3 minutes by however many passengers are on the plane and you're saving days of human existence.
- scep12 7y ago
  There's much more lower-hanging fruit out there if your goal is reducing borderline unpleasant waiting experiences for humanity.
mFixman 7y ago
Those 1–3 minutes can make a difference in a small amount of cases, like tight time spaces in connecting flights. My ideal plane de-boarding strategy would be to separate everyone in a few groups depending on priorities (people with connecting flights, people without stowed luggage, ...) and mostly make sure that the ones that have to go down earlier do it.
scott_s 7y ago
I am patient - I distract myself by reasoning through how to improve the process.

Drakar1903 7y ago

If you only have a front door exit, then column-by-column would work for the first column, but then it would switch to row-by-row starting from the back, since the column moves forward, and that allows the last row people to join the end of the column first. If you have front and back door exits, the same would happen, but row-by-row would start from the middle of the plane.

reportgunner 7y ago

The problem here is that we don't have a common objective to fight for when exiting the plane. Other people don't care if you exit faster or slower, they only care to exit as soon as possible. There is no tangible reason to fight for having everyone exit at the shortest possible time so nobody simply does it, why should they ?

speleding 7y ago

I wonder if a mechanical solution could be used: fold away the arm rests and squash the seats together. 6 armrests folded away would make the isle twice as wide. This could make boarding and exiting more than twice as fast because you have double the capacity and people can overtake others stowing luggage. Interesting engineering challenge to design those seats. Perhaps leave the armrests and use a wormwheel to make the seats narrower is easier to implement. Could be hilarious if engaged while people are sitting in them.

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