13 ms·

Apple has a secret team working on internet satellites

173 points by uptown 7y ago

neonate 7y ago
http://archive.md/Gfn6t http://archive.md/Gfn6t
Robotbeat 7y ago
Not super surprised (because traditional media is bad at specialist topics--looks like they googled large conventional satellite makers and talked to a self-described expert, who unfortunately didn't provide a ton of context), but there was no mention of the obvious company/competitor that has demonstrated the technology in question: https://spacenews.com/ubiquitilink-has-raised-12-million-for-communications-constellation/ https://spacenews.com/ubiquitilink-has-raised-12-million-for... Ubiquitilink (now called just Lynk) demonstrated the ability to communicate with existing, unmodified cellphones from orbit (the prototype was a secondary payload on the Cygnus spacecraft, which had resupplied the International Space Station). This is a remarkable feat and puts the technology in a completely different camp than it was when large LEO constellations like Iridium were tried beforehand. Iridium failed to acquire enough customers before going bankrupt in part because they required an expensive and clunky handset. Being able to use existing GSM and LTE phones without bulky antennas (and in spite of the latency being beyond what GSM/LTE usually tolerates) is a breakthrough. https://www.spaceitbridge.com/cell-tower-in-the-sky-ubiquitilink-is-now-lynk-hiring.htm https://www.spaceitbridge.com/cell-tower-in-the-sky-ubiquiti... They plan to start with SMS texting (can use very cheap satellites and don't require very many of them) and then voice/data later on. (Plan is to partner with existing providers to allow global texting anywhere on the planet.) The second prototype is a satellite launched on a SpaceX Dragon to the International Space Station that will be assembled by astronauts: https://mobile.twitter.com/NexGenSpace/status/1155087893163118592 https://mobile.twitter.com/NexGenSpace/status/11550878931631... It's a complete gamechanger (possibly even bigger than SpaceX's Starlink). Doubtless Apple realizes this potential and wants their own in to this. It's a legitimate way for Apple to use their huge amount of cash to legitimately grow their revenue significantly. And Apple has the advantage that they can make modifications to the phones (or tablets or watches or notebooks, etc) themselves. Apple can also afford multi-billion-dollar investments that take many years to come to fruition, something Iridium (and Globalstar and others) couldn't at that time.
- jandrese 7y ago
  I'm not sure how much of a gamechanger it will be to only be able to send SMS, and probably at a fairly high price point. It's perhaps a big deal if you're a Yak farmer in remote Sibera and don't normally have any kind of coverage at all, but most people have some sort of cell coverage that provides at least SMS. The comment that the bulky handset killed Iridium is only part of the picture. The bigger issue is that terrestrial cell antennas went up faster than Motorola expected, and by the time the system was online its primary use case had already largely vanished, especially among the kind of people who could afford the extremely high fees for the service. In the end the market niche closed down to government people in extremely remote locations who don't already have some sort of satellite connection.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    They're not limited to SMS; that's just the minimum viable product. They can do voice and data as well with the same technology. It also should be a lot easier and cheaper for Lynk to deploy than it was for Iridium, since launch costs have gone down significantly (while reliability is higher) and they use extremely small, cheap satellites (at least initially). They are planning on providing a fill-in-the-gaps service and are partnering with existing terrestrial service providers... Providers, at least with the next-generation version, won't have to provide cell towers (in places where there isn't otherwise enough demand to justify the large installation and upkeep costs) purely for gaining complete coverage. This is the sort of thing Iridium was never capable of. It should be pointed out that Iridium (post-bankruptcy) became profitable and has recently finished launching their entire second-generation constellation (on Falcon 9). Their subscriber base continues to grow.
    - jandrese 7y ago
      I'm not so sure. One of the reasons cell phones work at all is that they are relatively close to the antenna. This service requires to antennas to be at least 100 miles away and doesn't have any provision to improve the gain on the client side. SMS may be roughly the limit of what they can provide in the available bandwidth. The inverse square law is a harsh mistress.
dzhiurgis 7y ago
What is Apple’s relationship with Musk? I really feel Spacex need a good partner for their net.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Maybe Apple just buys SpaceX's satellite internet system when it's deployed, and SpaceX goes on to build more constellations for more companies, pivoting to being purely a space transportation company, and not an internet company.
- dzhiurgis 7y ago
  Cloudflare would be a good match for SpaceX.
Rebelgecko 7y ago
12 people is not a lot of engineers, considering all the work that needs to be done on both the modem and satellite side. Unless they actually go public and file some FCC paperwork soon to actually get spectrum, I doubt that this is actually going to happen in the next 5 years, it seems like more of an exploratory effort. I also imagine that this would be brutal for battery life.
- usrusr 7y ago
  Thank you for putting this into perspective. Apple would want to have a few people working on just assessing the risks and opportunities those other constellation projects have on their business and that would include wargaming "what if we made our own" scenarios.
- jacobush 7y ago
  12 is few enough that they might actually produce something of value. Besides, Steve Jobs originally wanted to sidestep the telcos and build his own network. I’m sure the thought kept living inside Apple and now they have the cash to do it.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  A dozen people could be enough to coordinate the purchase of the companies and engineers required to pull it off. It's not like Apple invents everything in-house. That said, 12 people is clearly an indication that this project is still in the napkins-and-whiteboards stage.
oaiey 7y ago
It fits Apple overall thinking of enabling maximum privacy and ownership by the users. But it will be a walled garden again. Imagine all iPhones forming one network. The privacy, space based, will be awesome. But there will be one exit node to the public Internet. In future, as a website owner I will need a license from Apple, they will review my web page and want a cut of all transactions. In summary: no thanks. That is privacy but not freedom.
- tempodox 7y ago
  > privacy but not freedom Freedom does not guarantee ROI. Limiting user's choices and lock-in somewhat does. This conflict of interest seems impossible to resolve with an organization whose raison d'être is making money.
  - oaiey 7y ago
    Yeah. I never doubt that. That is the reason I believe this will actually happen. It makes sense.
- m11a 7y ago
  Nothing to suggest that Apple is not in favour of net neutrality. > "We work hard to build great products, and what consumers do with those tools is up to them — not Apple, and not broadband providers," Cynthia Hogan, VP of public policy at Apple, said in a comment filed to the FCC. Yes, Apple regulate their App Store, they control what goes on and they have a licensing fee. That's also why the App Store is not like the Play Store. Apps are generally of a higher quality and better designed. They keep a tight lock on what is on that store. But that's for a specific purpose. There's nothing to suggest that they would plan to do the same in the browser.
  - oaiey 7y ago
    And what will make you think the same reason will not be applied to web pages. It makes absolutely sense to me.
sgt101 7y ago
When there is power, fibre connectivity and property rights it is better and cheaper to stick radio kit on a mast. When these things are not so - then a satellite is a useful alternative. I think 99% of the global market for comms is less than 1000m from places where there is or will be shortly power, fibre and property rights.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I think 99% of the global market for comms is less than 1000m from places where there is or will be shortly power, fibre and property rights. I'd say that is a tremendous overestimation. Even in the United States, the wireless carriers only advertise that they cover 95% of "Americans." Not "America," which is a vastly larger space. And we all know that 95% is, itself, a gross exaggeration.
  - sgt101 7y ago
    The USA is a really bad example - there could be a lot more fibre and phone signal than there is - if the market were "better" arranged.
wiredfool 7y ago
I'm looking forward to Space Grey(tm) internet satellites.
ReverseCold 7y ago
Why is everyone working on internet satellites? There's no way this is profitable, and people using competitors' solutions still means they can access the internet. Maybe it's easier than starting a regular ISP (to vacuum up data)?
- clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
  The process of running wires in the US is a massive uphill battle of regulations and monopolies. With junk like this it's easy to see the appeal of wireless: https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/11/22/judge-rules-against-metro-blocks-google-fiber-backed-utility-line-policy-at-t-poles/889313001/ https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/11/22/judge-rule... https://m.slashdot.org/story/313165 https://m.slashdot.org/story/313165
  - magicsmoke 7y ago
    To add to your point about how satellite internet connected smartphones negate the problems with building physical networks in the US, this could also have major effects for how US software services can reach foreign markets. In developing areas without stable cellular backbone like parts of Africa, South America, Central Asia etc anyone with a smartphone can get access to Google, Facebook, or Twitter as long as they're within line of sight of a satellite. More people using US software, more data to mine and more profits. But even more interesting is that now US software services can't be censored in places like China, Iran, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. Anyone with a smartphone can access US internet satellites without going through the firewalled cellular backbone of their home country. The CIA and NSA would have a field day with the data they could mine and media they could push. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of government money being funneled towards development of a uncensorable satellite network to defray R&D costs or keep it running even if it never makes a profit. The key to making this work though would be to have an internet satellite network where the satellites can do all the beamforming and signal processing well enough that smartphone antennas don't have to be significantly more powerful than they are today.
    - Aperocky 7y ago
mberning 7y ago
Very smart. Even if Apple only take a small bite out of carriers it is still a huge amount of money. They could end up being Netflix to Verizon and AT&Ts blockbuster.
dayaz36 7y ago
Are all tech companies just copying Elon now?
- ulfw 7y ago
  Elon God Musk. Sole inventor of online payments, solar panels, electric cars, tunnels and satellites. Silicon Valley hubris at its best
  - sgt 7y ago
    I don't think Elon claims any of those things. I think what he brings is a unique clarity that is hard for others to replicate when looking at ideas that already exist. By leveraging this clarity he can Get Things Done™, and we've seen tangible proof of that already with Tesla and SpaceX.
    - m11a 7y ago
      Elon may not, but his followers do. And Elon takes advantage of his Tony Stark persona people have made for him greatly. I don't blame him for that, of course. For everything he does deliver, there's 5 promises that he didn't. Humans on Mars by 2024, infrastructure on Mars by 2022? Model 3 was greatly delayed. $35k price point promise? I'm not anti-Elon, the opposite actually; he does great work and his companies have contributed a lot and indeed solved many problems. But I really do wish people would tone down the hype over him sometimes. Half of what he says isn't even in realistic development, it just sees a trailer, and the next thing you know there's another product announced and people have forgotten all about that one.
- dimator 7y ago
  Yeesh, the Elon idolizing is getting tedious.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    Idolizing? The idea that some skunkworks segment of Apple is copying him is not a statement about whether his ideas are good or bad.
bparsons 7y ago
It will go online 15 years after Starlink with users will claiming it is revolutionary. Apple will sell the sleek chrome plated antennae for 3000 dollars, but it will only work when you plug it into your network using a 900 dollar proprietary Ethernet standard which will be depricrated after four years.
threeseed 7y ago
This could be a game changer: 1) No more carriers. They get a consistent, high margin monthly revenue stream, can have one worldwide SKU and can let illegal imports take care of situations where there has been the potential for bans e.g. patents or Russia. 2) No more dealing with Qualcomm and 5/6G standards bodies and having them dictate where the industry goes. 3) Further ties customers to Apple in a world where its getting harder to differentiate on hardware features alone. Instead they can differentiate on the network e.g. no more roaming charges and offer unique bundles e.g. ATV+ with Apple Internet. And good luck with smaller players being able to launch their own satellite. 4) No more dealing with foreign governments blocking websites, demanding apps be installed, intercepting traffic and by extension far less jailing and killing of dissidents, minorities, journalists etc. 5) Apple owns the total experience. It's just you and Apple.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dchest 7y ago
  There's a proposed law in Russia that will fine people for using foreign satellite internet. Also, how do you think people will get iPhones, smuggling?
  - evgen 7y ago
    You mean like how Russians got most Western products only a few decades ago? No, I think they will get their grey market product from eBay like everyone else does.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Yes, smuggling. The same way that they got iPhones before they were officially available in Russia. Just because the sickle and hammer aren't on every flagpole doesn't mean smuggling has ceased in the new Russia.
- StuffedParrot 7y ago
  Who will buy this?
poopsmithe 7y ago
Anyone else remember Apple's secret team working on self driving cars?
- mattrp 7y ago
  It does have the appearance of this type of project. You have to assume they at least need to go through the exercise to ensure that there’s not some technology combined w/ out of the box thinking that could upend the status quo.
tjpnz 7y ago
Apple has secret teams working on all manner of things, and not necessarily only in the US.
- taneq 7y ago
  Honestly, with the size of their cash pile, I wouldn't be surprised if they were secretly preparing to pivot into space exploration or something. Assume SpaceX will have the primary transport side of things out to Mars covered with Starship, and start designing space habitats or preparing for a Mars colony.
smadurange 7y ago
Didn't you guys get fined for reporting bs recently? I'm gonna just give it a few more weeks before taking this seriously :p
pkz 7y ago
Not anymore. :-)
otec 7y ago
I guess it's not so secret if it's on HN
someguydave 7y ago
My speculation: this ties into thier ultra wideband location technology: a killer feature would be the ability to LoJack and kill any device globally. As well as find anything with a UWB sticker attached. Not to mention you can provision phones and computers without carrier activation.
- techslave 7y ago
  UWB has very short distance, inherent to the technology. it would be unrelated to this.
  - someguydave 7y ago
    That is the case today because of regulation. I’m implying that phones and iPads and laptops etc. could be turned into UWB-locating relay stations which report nearby UWB beacons directly to Apple via satellite even if they are “offline”
- jpeg_hero 7y ago
  My guess would be along similar lines a sort of always on, low bandwidth, side channel. So activation and a bootstrap for the next generation of weird protocols apple would love to cook up. I don’t know at all how airdrop works, but you could see it brokered through the apple network. Or like you mentioned a find my iPhone(and lock) that works globally without needing the phone to register to wifi/cell network. Or this p2p networking they’ve been talking about, that whole thing is a lot easier with a guaranteed signal to broker the nodes.
reaperducer 7y ago
Well, Wall Street wanted Apple to put out more services. This is pretty much the ultimate tech service. But I don't think this will free everyone from mobile carriers, as we would hope. At least if you don't live in a tent. Those of us who live and work in skyscrapers will still need cellular and/or WiFi connections.
johnnycab 7y ago
Your description of the individual missed out, chief caller-outer of pedo guys who has a penchant for legally smoking a spliff or tweeting under other influences, whilst eschewing world dominance. However, I am ambivalent, not only because the person has not yet been exposed as doing 'things' which might be considered deeply unsavoury ─ even by the lax standards or sexual mores that define people in this class. But he continues to make some progress, in the vein of unreasonable people having the will to bend the world around them, rather than being pliable to it. This is not an endorsement nor does it express my consent or brings me joy to say it, but somebody has to do it, so the others can follow.
- xedeon 7y ago
  > This is not an endorsement nor does it express my consent or brings me joy to say it, but somebody has to do it, so the others can follow. Thankfully, not everyone thinks they are holier than thou while also spewing vitriol. Try to think critically perhaps? Only fools follow. Also, Unsworth lost his case and is now on the hook for legal fees. Even his OWN lawyer admitted he was wrong and agreed with the verdict after some reflecting: https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1204206188189114370 https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1204206188189114370
  - johnnycab 7y ago
    >Even his OWN lawyer admitted he was wrong and agreed with the verdict after some reflecting: https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1204206188189114370 https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1204206188189114370 You could not have picked a worse example to illustrate your point. If your intention was to defend the person by admonishing me and meting out sage advice as a form of punishment, perhaps it would have been wise to read past the first tweet, whose contents you crudely paraphrased. If you unroll the thread and read the following tweets, you will find that it presents a litany of events ─ adding to an already chequered past of a man, who has a colourful presence on the platform, which has been documented comprehensively elsewhere in the media.
    - xedeon 7y ago
Cyder 7y ago
Satellite internet is too slow to do much. It reminds me of the dial up days.
summerlight 7y ago
If this project can be launched in 5 years, I will be very surprised. Remember Apple car; this project once had hundreds of engineers over multi-years but eventually got scrapped. Meanwhile, given the secretive culture in Apple, I wonder if this "leak" is a calculated one. It can be from either top-executives or internal politics though.
ksec 7y ago
There is a much higher possibility of Apple having their own Satellites for Mapping Data, Imagery, Extreme accurate location positioning than whatever Bloomberg or the 102 comment on HN is dreaming of.
Abishek_Muthian 7y ago
With Apple, I would be worried that it could become an Intranet.

173 points by uptown 7y ago

http://archive.md/Gfn6t http://archive.md/Gfn6t

Not super surprised (because traditional media is bad at specialist topics--looks like they googled large conventional satellite makers and talked to a self-described expert, who unfortunately didn't provide a ton of context), but there was no mention of the obvious company/competitor that has demonstrated the technology in question: https://spacenews.com/ubiquitilink-has-raised-12-million-for-communications-constellation/ https://spacenews.com/ubiquitilink-has-raised-12-million-for... Ubiquitilink (now called just Lynk) demonstrated the ability to communicate with existing, unmodified cellphones from orbit (the prototype was a secondary payload on the Cygnus spacecraft, which had resupplied the International Space Station). This is a remarkable feat and puts the technology in a completely different camp than it was when large LEO constellations like Iridium were tried beforehand. Iridium failed to acquire enough customers before going bankrupt in part because they required an expensive and clunky handset. Being able to use existing GSM and LTE phones without bulky antennas (and in spite of the latency being beyond what GSM/LTE usually tolerates) is a breakthrough. https://www.spaceitbridge.com/cell-tower-in-the-sky-ubiquitilink-is-now-lynk-hiring.htm https://www.spaceitbridge.com/cell-tower-in-the-sky-ubiquiti... They plan to start with SMS texting (can use very cheap satellites and don't require very many of them) and then voice/data later on. (Plan is to partner with existing providers to allow global texting anywhere on the planet.) The second prototype is a satellite launched on a SpaceX Dragon to the International Space Station that will be assembled by astronauts: https://mobile.twitter.com/NexGenSpace/status/1155087893163118592 https://mobile.twitter.com/NexGenSpace/status/11550878931631... It's a complete gamechanger (possibly even bigger than SpaceX's Starlink). Doubtless Apple realizes this potential and wants their own in to this. It's a legitimate way for Apple to use their huge amount of cash to legitimately grow their revenue significantly. And Apple has the advantage that they can make modifications to the phones (or tablets or watches or notebooks, etc) themselves. Apple can also afford multi-billion-dollar investments that take many years to come to fruition, something Iridium (and Globalstar and others) couldn't at that time.

jandrese 7y ago
I'm not sure how much of a gamechanger it will be to only be able to send SMS, and probably at a fairly high price point. It's perhaps a big deal if you're a Yak farmer in remote Sibera and don't normally have any kind of coverage at all, but most people have some sort of cell coverage that provides at least SMS. The comment that the bulky handset killed Iridium is only part of the picture. The bigger issue is that terrestrial cell antennas went up faster than Motorola expected, and by the time the system was online its primary use case had already largely vanished, especially among the kind of people who could afford the extremely high fees for the service. In the end the market niche closed down to government people in extremely remote locations who don't already have some sort of satellite connection.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  They're not limited to SMS; that's just the minimum viable product. They can do voice and data as well with the same technology. It also should be a lot easier and cheaper for Lynk to deploy than it was for Iridium, since launch costs have gone down significantly (while reliability is higher) and they use extremely small, cheap satellites (at least initially). They are planning on providing a fill-in-the-gaps service and are partnering with existing terrestrial service providers... Providers, at least with the next-generation version, won't have to provide cell towers (in places where there isn't otherwise enough demand to justify the large installation and upkeep costs) purely for gaining complete coverage. This is the sort of thing Iridium was never capable of. It should be pointed out that Iridium (post-bankruptcy) became profitable and has recently finished launching their entire second-generation constellation (on Falcon 9). Their subscriber base continues to grow.
  - jandrese 7y ago
    I'm not so sure. One of the reasons cell phones work at all is that they are relatively close to the antenna. This service requires to antennas to be at least 100 miles away and doesn't have any provision to improve the gain on the client side. SMS may be roughly the limit of what they can provide in the available bandwidth. The inverse square law is a harsh mistress.

dzhiurgis 7y ago

What is Apple’s relationship with Musk? I really feel Spacex need a good partner for their net.

reaperducer 7y ago
Maybe Apple just buys SpaceX's satellite internet system when it's deployed, and SpaceX goes on to build more constellations for more companies, pivoting to being purely a space transportation company, and not an internet company.
dzhiurgis 7y ago
Cloudflare would be a good match for SpaceX.

Rebelgecko 7y ago

12 people is not a lot of engineers, considering all the work that needs to be done on both the modem and satellite side. Unless they actually go public and file some FCC paperwork soon to actually get spectrum, I doubt that this is actually going to happen in the next 5 years, it seems like more of an exploratory effort. I also imagine that this would be brutal for battery life.

usrusr 7y ago
Thank you for putting this into perspective. Apple would want to have a few people working on just assessing the risks and opportunities those other constellation projects have on their business and that would include wargaming "what if we made our own" scenarios.
jacobush 7y ago
12 is few enough that they might actually produce something of value. Besides, Steve Jobs originally wanted to sidestep the telcos and build his own network. I’m sure the thought kept living inside Apple and now they have the cash to do it.
reaperducer 7y ago
A dozen people could be enough to coordinate the purchase of the companies and engineers required to pull it off. It's not like Apple invents everything in-house. That said, 12 people is clearly an indication that this project is still in the napkins-and-whiteboards stage.

oaiey 7y ago

It fits Apple overall thinking of enabling maximum privacy and ownership by the users. But it will be a walled garden again. Imagine all iPhones forming one network. The privacy, space based, will be awesome. But there will be one exit node to the public Internet. In future, as a website owner I will need a license from Apple, they will review my web page and want a cut of all transactions. In summary: no thanks. That is privacy but not freedom.

tempodox 7y ago
> privacy but not freedom Freedom does not guarantee ROI. Limiting user's choices and lock-in somewhat does. This conflict of interest seems impossible to resolve with an organization whose raison d'être is making money.
- oaiey 7y ago
  Yeah. I never doubt that. That is the reason I believe this will actually happen. It makes sense.
m11a 7y ago
Nothing to suggest that Apple is not in favour of net neutrality. > "We work hard to build great products, and what consumers do with those tools is up to them — not Apple, and not broadband providers," Cynthia Hogan, VP of public policy at Apple, said in a comment filed to the FCC. Yes, Apple regulate their App Store, they control what goes on and they have a licensing fee. That's also why the App Store is not like the Play Store. Apps are generally of a higher quality and better designed. They keep a tight lock on what is on that store. But that's for a specific purpose. There's nothing to suggest that they would plan to do the same in the browser.
- oaiey 7y ago
  And what will make you think the same reason will not be applied to web pages. It makes absolutely sense to me.

sgt101 7y ago

When there is power, fibre connectivity and property rights it is better and cheaper to stick radio kit on a mast. When these things are not so - then a satellite is a useful alternative. I think 99% of the global market for comms is less than 1000m from places where there is or will be shortly power, fibre and property rights.

reaperducer 7y ago
I think 99% of the global market for comms is less than 1000m from places where there is or will be shortly power, fibre and property rights. I'd say that is a tremendous overestimation. Even in the United States, the wireless carriers only advertise that they cover 95% of "Americans." Not "America," which is a vastly larger space. And we all know that 95% is, itself, a gross exaggeration.
- sgt101 7y ago
  The USA is a really bad example - there could be a lot more fibre and phone signal than there is - if the market were "better" arranged.

wiredfool 7y ago

I'm looking forward to Space Grey(tm) internet satellites.

ReverseCold 7y ago

Why is everyone working on internet satellites? There's no way this is profitable, and people using competitors' solutions still means they can access the internet. Maybe it's easier than starting a regular ISP (to vacuum up data)?

clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
The process of running wires in the US is a massive uphill battle of regulations and monopolies. With junk like this it's easy to see the appeal of wireless: https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/11/22/judge-rules-against-metro-blocks-google-fiber-backed-utility-line-policy-at-t-poles/889313001/ https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/11/22/judge-rule... https://m.slashdot.org/story/313165 https://m.slashdot.org/story/313165
- magicsmoke 7y ago
  To add to your point about how satellite internet connected smartphones negate the problems with building physical networks in the US, this could also have major effects for how US software services can reach foreign markets. In developing areas without stable cellular backbone like parts of Africa, South America, Central Asia etc anyone with a smartphone can get access to Google, Facebook, or Twitter as long as they're within line of sight of a satellite. More people using US software, more data to mine and more profits. But even more interesting is that now US software services can't be censored in places like China, Iran, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. Anyone with a smartphone can access US internet satellites without going through the firewalled cellular backbone of their home country. The CIA and NSA would have a field day with the data they could mine and media they could push. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of government money being funneled towards development of a uncensorable satellite network to defray R&D costs or keep it running even if it never makes a profit. The key to making this work though would be to have an internet satellite network where the satellites can do all the beamforming and signal processing well enough that smartphone antennas don't have to be significantly more powerful than they are today.
  - Aperocky 7y ago

mberning 7y ago

Very smart. Even if Apple only take a small bite out of carriers it is still a huge amount of money. They could end up being Netflix to Verizon and AT&Ts blockbuster.

dayaz36 7y ago

Are all tech companies just copying Elon now?

ulfw 7y ago
Elon God Musk. Sole inventor of online payments, solar panels, electric cars, tunnels and satellites. Silicon Valley hubris at its best
- sgt 7y ago
  I don't think Elon claims any of those things. I think what he brings is a unique clarity that is hard for others to replicate when looking at ideas that already exist. By leveraging this clarity he can Get Things Done™, and we've seen tangible proof of that already with Tesla and SpaceX.
  - m11a 7y ago
    Elon may not, but his followers do. And Elon takes advantage of his Tony Stark persona people have made for him greatly. I don't blame him for that, of course. For everything he does deliver, there's 5 promises that he didn't. Humans on Mars by 2024, infrastructure on Mars by 2022? Model 3 was greatly delayed. $35k price point promise? I'm not anti-Elon, the opposite actually; he does great work and his companies have contributed a lot and indeed solved many problems. But I really do wish people would tone down the hype over him sometimes. Half of what he says isn't even in realistic development, it just sees a trailer, and the next thing you know there's another product announced and people have forgotten all about that one.
dimator 7y ago
Yeesh, the Elon idolizing is getting tedious.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  Idolizing? The idea that some skunkworks segment of Apple is copying him is not a statement about whether his ideas are good or bad.

bparsons 7y ago

It will go online 15 years after Starlink with users will claiming it is revolutionary. Apple will sell the sleek chrome plated antennae for 3000 dollars, but it will only work when you plug it into your network using a 900 dollar proprietary Ethernet standard which will be depricrated after four years.

threeseed 7y ago

This could be a game changer: 1) No more carriers. They get a consistent, high margin monthly revenue stream, can have one worldwide SKU and can let illegal imports take care of situations where there has been the potential for bans e.g. patents or Russia. 2) No more dealing with Qualcomm and 5/6G standards bodies and having them dictate where the industry goes. 3) Further ties customers to Apple in a world where its getting harder to differentiate on hardware features alone. Instead they can differentiate on the network e.g. no more roaming charges and offer unique bundles e.g. ATV+ with Apple Internet. And good luck with smaller players being able to launch their own satellite. 4) No more dealing with foreign governments blocking websites, demanding apps be installed, intercepting traffic and by extension far less jailing and killing of dissidents, minorities, journalists etc. 5) Apple owns the total experience. It's just you and Apple.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dchest 7y ago
There's a proposed law in Russia that will fine people for using foreign satellite internet. Also, how do you think people will get iPhones, smuggling?
- evgen 7y ago
  You mean like how Russians got most Western products only a few decades ago? No, I think they will get their grey market product from eBay like everyone else does.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Yes, smuggling. The same way that they got iPhones before they were officially available in Russia. Just because the sickle and hammer aren't on every flagpole doesn't mean smuggling has ceased in the new Russia.
StuffedParrot 7y ago
Who will buy this?

poopsmithe 7y ago

Anyone else remember Apple's secret team working on self driving cars?

mattrp 7y ago
It does have the appearance of this type of project. You have to assume they at least need to go through the exercise to ensure that there’s not some technology combined w/ out of the box thinking that could upend the status quo.

tjpnz 7y ago

Apple has secret teams working on all manner of things, and not necessarily only in the US.

taneq 7y ago
Honestly, with the size of their cash pile, I wouldn't be surprised if they were secretly preparing to pivot into space exploration or something. Assume SpaceX will have the primary transport side of things out to Mars covered with Starship, and start designing space habitats or preparing for a Mars colony.

smadurange 7y ago

Didn't you guys get fined for reporting bs recently? I'm gonna just give it a few more weeks before taking this seriously :p

pkz 7y ago

Not anymore. :-)

otec 7y ago

I guess it's not so secret if it's on HN

someguydave 7y ago

My speculation: this ties into thier ultra wideband location technology: a killer feature would be the ability to LoJack and kill any device globally. As well as find anything with a UWB sticker attached. Not to mention you can provision phones and computers without carrier activation.

techslave 7y ago
UWB has very short distance, inherent to the technology. it would be unrelated to this.
- someguydave 7y ago
  That is the case today because of regulation. I’m implying that phones and iPads and laptops etc. could be turned into UWB-locating relay stations which report nearby UWB beacons directly to Apple via satellite even if they are “offline”
jpeg_hero 7y ago
My guess would be along similar lines a sort of always on, low bandwidth, side channel. So activation and a bootstrap for the next generation of weird protocols apple would love to cook up. I don’t know at all how airdrop works, but you could see it brokered through the apple network. Or like you mentioned a find my iPhone(and lock) that works globally without needing the phone to register to wifi/cell network. Or this p2p networking they’ve been talking about, that whole thing is a lot easier with a guaranteed signal to broker the nodes.

reaperducer 7y ago

Well, Wall Street wanted Apple to put out more services. This is pretty much the ultimate tech service. But I don't think this will free everyone from mobile carriers, as we would hope. At least if you don't live in a tent. Those of us who live and work in skyscrapers will still need cellular and/or WiFi connections.

johnnycab 7y ago

Your description of the individual missed out, chief caller-outer of pedo guys who has a penchant for legally smoking a spliff or tweeting under other influences, whilst eschewing world dominance. However, I am ambivalent, not only because the person has not yet been exposed as doing 'things' which might be considered deeply unsavoury ─ even by the lax standards or sexual mores that define people in this class. But he continues to make some progress, in the vein of unreasonable people having the will to bend the world around them, rather than being pliable to it. This is not an endorsement nor does it express my consent or brings me joy to say it, but somebody has to do it, so the others can follow.

xedeon 7y ago
> This is not an endorsement nor does it express my consent or brings me joy to say it, but somebody has to do it, so the others can follow. Thankfully, not everyone thinks they are holier than thou while also spewing vitriol. Try to think critically perhaps? Only fools follow. Also, Unsworth lost his case and is now on the hook for legal fees. Even his OWN lawyer admitted he was wrong and agreed with the verdict after some reflecting: https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1204206188189114370 https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1204206188189114370
- johnnycab 7y ago
  >Even his OWN lawyer admitted he was wrong and agreed with the verdict after some reflecting: https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1204206188189114370 https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1204206188189114370 You could not have picked a worse example to illustrate your point. If your intention was to defend the person by admonishing me and meting out sage advice as a form of punishment, perhaps it would have been wise to read past the first tweet, whose contents you crudely paraphrased. If you unroll the thread and read the following tweets, you will find that it presents a litany of events ─ adding to an already chequered past of a man, who has a colourful presence on the platform, which has been documented comprehensively elsewhere in the media.
  - xedeon 7y ago

Cyder 7y ago

Satellite internet is too slow to do much. It reminds me of the dial up days.

summerlight 7y ago

If this project can be launched in 5 years, I will be very surprised. Remember Apple car; this project once had hundreds of engineers over multi-years but eventually got scrapped. Meanwhile, given the secretive culture in Apple, I wonder if this "leak" is a calculated one. It can be from either top-executives or internal politics though.

ksec 7y ago

There is a much higher possibility of Apple having their own Satellites for Mapping Data, Imagery, Extreme accurate location positioning than whatever Bloomberg or the 102 comment on HN is dreaming of.

Abishek_Muthian 7y ago

With Apple, I would be worried that it could become an Intranet.