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Duolingo becomes first VC-funded $1B Pittsburgh tech startup

265 points by lelf 7y ago

mooman219 7y ago
I would hope they spend more money in actually teaching other languages then. The current quality of their app is just gamified vocabulary flash cards at best.
- rwilson4 7y ago
  Credit where it’s due though. The low barrier to entry and habit-forming nature got me learning Italian. I’m definitely not fluent but I can have conversations with people in cafes and restaurants and it’s pretty fun! Recently I’ve moved on to Babel and I like that too.
- gbear605 7y ago
  The problem is that many people see Duolingo (and Duolingo partially advertises itself this way) as the first and last step needed for learning a language. On the contrary, Duolingo is a good first step, but it's only a first step. Instead, simultaneous with Duolingo, you should be using a spaced repetition system to study vocabulary, like Mnemosyne, Anki, or Memrise. After you get significantly through the Duolingo tree (or finish it, for a smaller tree), you need to start immersing yourself in the foreign language - consuming media in the language and talking with others who speak your target language, at the very least. Another good tool after Duolingo is Clozemaster, since it helps you get exposed to lots of vocabulary and sentence structures. It depends on your language, but widely spoken languages have "easy language" media available, which is a good place to start. But also, look on YouTube for native speakers talking, listen to podcasts, read books (keep Wiktionary or WordReference at hand), and find people online! It'll be hard at first, but you'll quickly get a lot better. In addition, Duolingo (and every other language learning tool) is significantly better for some languages than others. There is now the "story" feature for some languages, which helps a lot with reading comprehension, especially after you get past the first few easy tiers of stories. I'd say that completing the Duolingo tree in German got me through a similar level of grammar that my four years in high school did, but what it is lacking is the many hours of listening practice and vocabulary practice. Disclaimer: I have no connection to Duolingo or any of the other tools I mentioned; I am simply a fan.
  - uoaei 7y ago
    People see it that way because Duolingo explicitly markets themselves that way. I invite you to go to their splash page for an example. https://www.duolingo.com/ https://www.duolingo.com/
  - ape4 7y ago
    Isn't Duolingo just spaced repetition.
    - gbear605 7y ago
      Duolingo tries to do some spaced repetition, but it’s not very effective. Spaced repetition should be at least explicitly memorizing the definition of vocabulary (and related uses) with a smart algorithm while Duolingo only exposes you to words occasionally, in the form of sentences.
    - xxxtentachyon 7y ago
      It's definitely not "just" spaced repetition in the way that Anki is (asking you how difficult it was to recall the answer and choosing to ask you again at some time "t + now" in the future, where "t" is determined by your answer). As far as I can tell, as you're working through a tree in Duolingo, it tries to sprinkle in words that you've seen a few checkpoints ago, but it doesn't seem to do so dynamically based on demonstrated mastery or lack thereof of the words sprinkled back in.
orliesaurus 7y ago
They have users... but the tool(app), other than being really cute and well made, is super basic... You can't expect to be fluent enough in a language JUST with Duolingo, at most you will be able to read a few sentences and spit out a few basic sentences and words. Is that enough? Definitely not. Not for me at least. They basically give you the 'hello world' of a language. I speak 5 languages (learned through school and life choices) but when I tried to learn a 6th on Duolingo I felt like the experience was not good enough for me. A tutor or a class would probably be mandatory and using Duolingo just for re-affirming some basic concepts would be a nice to have, like a companion app..but they have to be able to let teachers create their own lessons.
- henrikschroder 7y ago
  I've tried duolingo, but it's not for me. It just teaches you phrases and words, without teaching you the structure. I need grammar rules and lists of prepositions and verb endings. I need ten examples in a row where you change out a single word, to teach you how it changes the rest of the sentence. Duolingo is just random flashcards, claiming to be grouped into lessons. I can absolutely see it as a companion tool to a proper language course, but it's not sufficient in itself, at least not for me.
- trilliumbaker 7y ago
  I worked as a language teacher for a while. You see products like Duolingo come along all the time. They're always accompanied by hype in how they will help you become fluent. It's simply not the case. The products are not necessarily useless, but they only help some people make some progress some of the time. They never live up to the hype around them. Language acquisition is a multifaceted endeavor which takes time and effort. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either misinformed or lying. (There are some outliers who can learn/acquire languages with great speed, but they're very rare.)
  - charlesism 7y ago
    > Anyone who tells you otherwise is either misinformed or lying. Duolingo's "Goal" settings: > Basic 1XP | Casual 10XP | Regular 20XP | Serious 30XP | Insane 50XP per day 50XP requires no more than 25 minutes of work. So, according to Duolingo, it is "Insane" to devote 25 minutes per day on learning a language. To learn a language typically requires 50,000 minutes. And that's just to reach a basic level. I wonder if Duolingo's "Casual" learners realize that that setting implies a 30 year commitment.
sfblah 7y ago
This company apparently has a $100mm revenue run rate. How? I read somewhere that companies pay for translations from learners. Does that make sense? These are people with very low fluency. Does anyone with more info know more about their revenue model?
- mlinsey 7y ago
  There is also a monthly subscription plan. Dunno what their conversion rate is, but recently (maybe sometime this year?) they added a game-style resource mechanic where any mistake makes you lose a heart, which you gain back either by waiting a few hours or by being a premium user.
  - sfblah 7y ago
    Thanks for the info.
AWildC182 7y ago
Surprised Duolingo is the first out of Pittsburgh. There's a huge tech scene out there with tons of interesting stuff happening but with a reasonable cost of living. They have the top ranked CS program plus a bunch of interesting robotics stuff going on.
- dgacmu 7y ago
  The VC-funded part is tricky to evaluate. FORE systems (in the 80s/90s) was worth almost $7b in 2019 dollars at the time of its acquisition. But I'm not sure if they took VC funding. Avere Systems was (2018?) acquired by Microsoft, but the terms weren't disclosed, so it's unclear if they grew a centrally located cranial horn or not. There've been others in similar ranges.
  - wskish 7y ago
    FORE Systems (NADSAQ:FORE 1994 IPO) was funded by Battery Ventures and one other VC firm so it was definitely the first. https://www.battery.com/our-companies/company/fore-systems/ https://www.battery.com/our-companies/company/fore-systems/
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  As someone who went to CMU, there are just so few investors in Pittsburgh. In fact, many years ago I was talking with Severin Hacker (Duolingo cofounder) about some of the challenges of running a company there. There is a lot of engineering talent...and that's it. Marketing? Business development? There just aren't (or weren't) that many people there. I also know that Anki moved to San Francisco because it was the only way they could raise money. I also left Pittsburgh because it was the only way I could raise money. So long as the investors are in the Bay Area, it will continue to be the startup mecca of the world. That does seem to be slowly changing, but not nearly as fast as anyone promoting their city as the next startup hub is willing to admit.
  - Cyph0n 7y ago
    I’m currently based in NC. Pittsburgh caught my eye as a potential place to move to, but it’s just too far away from... everything. I also understand it’s a very “sporty” city, which is something I’m not very into.
edgarvaldes 7y ago
Reading so many criticisms about the quality and depth of knowledge acquired through Duolingo (deserved, by the way)... is there an alternative app?
- stazz1 7y ago
  Full Disclosure: one of the developers of Japanese Complete here. We are aiming at providing learners with a full path to native-level comprehension and fluency. We estimate it'll take ambitious learners 3-5 years to complete everything. You can subscribe monthly. https://learnjapanese.best https://learnjapanese.best has more information
- gbear605 7y ago
  There are lots of other general language learning apps, but they’re all about the same as Duolingo. However, more specific apps can be a very useful tool. Specifically, using a spaced repetition software is the best way to memorize vocabulary. I personally use Mnemosyne, which is open source, but there’s also Anki, Memrise, and a number of others.
- ddevault 7y ago
  I think that it's important to acknowledge that an effective language learning approach is multi-faceted and learner-specific. Any single app can only be a small part of a larger learning strategy, combined with books or podcasts or tutors or reading and listening practice or making friends with native speakers... you need it all.
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  No. The criticism of Duolingo is "it's an app", and not a native speaker or proper class.
- viburnum 7y ago
  I love Duolingo and think it's great. I took two languages in school and another for a job and I've learned more with Duolingo than with formal education. I think if you're a certain kind of nerd then learning from a textbook works great but for me the casual little lessons in Duolingo are just right. I know two sets of linguist parents and they think it's great and have their kids on it.
cozos 7y ago
I have been using Duolingo for about 7 months now and have made much more progress in it than any of the language classes I took in high school and college. I think the reason is because course based language lessons focus mostly on teaching grammar to be tested on exams. On the other hand, Duolingo focuses on repetition and practice which helps you retain what you learned and build an intuition for the language.
- zeta0134 7y ago
  Same. I'm a little annoyed with some parts of the UI (it seems somehow too encouraging) but the basic utility of the app is hard to beat. The streak system is just enough of a motivator to encourage users to keep at it every day, and that consistency is shockingly effective. The UI is also laser-focused to be approachable, especially on mobile, which I think is the right choice given their broad target audience. It's not going to satisfy power users, but that's not the point. The actual lesson content is basic, and you'll want to supplement it with broader learning materials and reading in the target language as soon as you're remotely able, but as a jump start from "never spoken a word of this language" to "able to recognize basic grammar patterns, and get the general gist of what I'm reading" it accomplishes this goal quite well, and for very low effort on the part of the user. I can finish my Duolingo rounds in about 15 minutes every day; the hardest part is just remembering to do it. There's something to be said for what they've achieved there.
- busterarm 7y ago
  I used Duolingo to start learning Danish and within about 6 months had 5*'d almost down to the end of the tree. I always felt like something was missing and enrolled in actual Danish classes from the university here, taught by a native speaker. Within 4 weeks of class I'd stopped using Duolingo, but I'm still studying and continuing with classes (lessons with a native speaker). I felt that in many places it was inaccurate, prepared me poorly for written conversations with Danes (and don't even get me started on speaking/proununciation), and didn't provide any of the cultural nuance really needed to understand the language and how Danish people construct their sentences. I guess it's good for vocabulary, but not as good as simple flash cards.
bsder 7y ago
> Language-learning app Duolingo is valued at $1.5 billion after a $30 million investment by Alphabet's CapitalG. Erm, so Alphabet threw in $30 million for 3% in a Series F that has already taken $138 million (I wonder what kind of preferences they got on that, LOL) and magically Duolingo is a unicorn. Uh, yeah, sure. Basically, Alphabet paid $30 million for a lot of user information to throw into the voracious Google maw.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  I'm not sure how you get there from the investment. The $30mil doesn't get Google access to Duolingo's data.
  - bsder 7y ago
    Google paid $30 million for 3%. Even the most optimistic unicorn projection isn't going to return much of a multiplier on that. Pearson is a behemoth in the space, and it's, what, about a $5 billion company? The financials simply don't add up. So there is some very important aspect of the deal that can't be publicly announced. The only thing Google would want from Duolingo that would have to be kept on the down low would be lots of user data.
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      Or they think the project has legitimate worth and this team is the right one to execute (people having more language knowledge makes it easier to make the world's information universally accessible). Or it's a favor to a high-value ex-Googler. Google's been known to pay big numbers to keep key people happy; maybe they're making a long-term investment in Luis von Ahn under the assumption he may come back some day.
wyxuan 7y ago
Great app. 151+ day streak on it. I think there are some problems with monetization (right now the free tier has just as many features as the paid tier), but it is really a great tool.
- unglaublich 7y ago
  That's probably because you are in another A/B test group. In mine, I can make up to 5 mistakes a day, before I am cut off for the rest of the day (except when I pay, of course).
dmode 7y ago
Just for comparison there are 95 unicorns in the Bay Area. The gap is just mind boggling
- anonu 7y ago
  You would imagine with all the universities in Pittsburgh, low cost of living, etc.. you would have better outcomes... At least measured in unicorns
- ascorbic 7y ago
  The Bay Area is an outlier on pretty much every scale. It's not a valuable comparison.
telesilla 7y ago
For all its faults, we can't argue with the fact that thanks to the popularity of this app many people have engaged with another language, even if it fails to deliver. Overall, on a global level, this increases compassion and global understanding through cultural exposure. I can't possibly be against it for that.
kachurovskiy 7y ago
I went till the end of the tree on Duolingo 5 years ago on just the free tier. Installed it a few months ago for my daughter and now the free tier is useless, can't do much at all. Memrise is more useful on free tier but quite buggy. I was looking into building a language learning app the other day to help my spouse with their passion but the market appears over-saturated. The only niche I see is for a good game teaching English alike https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.prodigygame.prodigy https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.prodigygam... but that's not something I can arrange. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pC4k3i-U8-uSAsd2qrg_EX-k52XsxMpIfhqx76HWQ3s/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pC4k3i-U8-uSAsd2qrg_EX-k...
acspock 7y ago
Duolingo isn't as simple as some of these comments make it out to be. I can only speak for Spanish as I'm 75% done through the new tree (one more group to go). They have actual written, albeit small bite sized written lessons for every lesson branch. If you compiled all the written lessons (the bulb icon next to each lesson) you would have an introductory Spanish text book. I also take lessons on italki and my gf is a native spanish speaker. It's a great supplement tool if you're consistent.
cryptozeus 7y ago
Imo all these complaints against duolingo not being good enough are not fair. Have you seen the alternatives ? I mean they did get 1 billion dollars for not nothing !
- unglaublich 7y ago
  Have you used it? You're limited in learning when you make a few mistakes/typos. As if mistakes are bad!? Then you need to pay to continue that day. Just a new cash-cow feature.
- charlesism 7y ago
  They have the most money because they got the most users. They got the most users because their courses demand the least effort. I have used several of the alternatives, and all of them are more effective at teaching languages. Granted, Duolingo is better at raising money.
  - cryptozeus 7y ago
    And why is that bad ? If users can learn with least effort then isn’t that better:)
    - charlesism 7y ago
      It’s bad because it takes a very long time for a language learner to assess their own progress. Duolingo relies on its userbase making an uninformed choice. If Duolingo warned a user “it will take a you 30 years of daily ‘Casual Level’ use to learn the basics here” he or she would likely choose a different website or strategy.
      - cryptozeus 7y ago
        Product market fit does not lie. There is a reason they have user base and activate users who keeps coming back.
        7y ago
org3432 7y ago
I used Duolingo for about 1 month to learn Portuguese and was close to the end of the tree. I learned quite a lot, the grammar drills were useful introduction and basic vocabulary, however I stopped using it due to it requiring me to translate back into English which made it hard to think in the language. I bought other books, like side by side texts, and grammar books to continue and watch YouTube videos from Brazil to drill in the sound of the language. I learned German at a University in a German speaking country, and the classes were completely in German from day one which I found helpful. I also bought quite a number of books and studied quite a lot before I become fluent. So I don’t think an app is a one stop solution, it takes a lot of material, I’m not sure why people think any one system is enough, especially considering you never stop learning a language. Fluent just means you know enough to continue to learn in the language on your own.
m0zg 7y ago
I'm fluent in 2 languages, and can read French as well, but when I tried to learn Japanese through Duolingo, it was an epic fail. Beyond some very basic things, it was pretty clear that not only the developers don't use the service themselves, they also don't really listen to people who do use it in any kind of a consistent fashion.
skelet 7y ago
Duolingo is super frustrating if you're learning Spain-Spanish, there are lots of complaints of them not adding Spanish variants of words and Duolingo hasn't moved on it at all in 5+ years. The premium version is not worth it at all.
qxnqd 7y ago
The thread is full of "Duolingo sucks, just use XXX instead", for a wide array of XXX alternatives. Now to pick a good XXX...
emrhzc 7y ago
first VC-funded $1 billion Pittsburgh tech start-up? wow that's unique.
k__ 7y ago
After some people here said DL isn't good to learn a language, what are really useful alternatives?
- munmaek 7y ago
  If you truly want to learn a language, no singular app will work. You need to find a good curriculum for your language for grammar. Typically this means taking a class or buying a good textbook. Sometimes you get lucky and find a comprehensive website. For audio / speaking practice, I recommend glossika. It’s like a modern version of pimsleur. For vocabulary I recommend Anki. I have used that for the last two years and written about it. Generally you can start with a premade deck and eventually make your own once you’re a little bit more advanced in the language. For talking to people, try HelloTalk. You can make posts and natives can correct them, and you can have conversations with native speakers. Once you are intermediate or advanced+, you need to start consuming native material. Try searching on YouTube, or look for graded readers. Searching reddit about recommended textbooks / etc is usually useful, depending on how popular your language is.
nathancahill 7y ago
Also, notably, Luis von Ahn is the first Guatemalan unicorn founder.
Grue3 7y ago
I stopped using Duolingo when they added my native language and there was no way to change the "base language" back to English. Thankfully Anki will never do me dirty like this.

265 points by lelf 7y ago

I would hope they spend more money in actually teaching other languages then. The current quality of their app is just gamified vocabulary flash cards at best.

rwilson4 7y ago
Credit where it’s due though. The low barrier to entry and habit-forming nature got me learning Italian. I’m definitely not fluent but I can have conversations with people in cafes and restaurants and it’s pretty fun! Recently I’ve moved on to Babel and I like that too.
gbear605 7y ago
The problem is that many people see Duolingo (and Duolingo partially advertises itself this way) as the first and last step needed for learning a language. On the contrary, Duolingo is a good first step, but it's only a first step. Instead, simultaneous with Duolingo, you should be using a spaced repetition system to study vocabulary, like Mnemosyne, Anki, or Memrise. After you get significantly through the Duolingo tree (or finish it, for a smaller tree), you need to start immersing yourself in the foreign language - consuming media in the language and talking with others who speak your target language, at the very least. Another good tool after Duolingo is Clozemaster, since it helps you get exposed to lots of vocabulary and sentence structures. It depends on your language, but widely spoken languages have "easy language" media available, which is a good place to start. But also, look on YouTube for native speakers talking, listen to podcasts, read books (keep Wiktionary or WordReference at hand), and find people online! It'll be hard at first, but you'll quickly get a lot better. In addition, Duolingo (and every other language learning tool) is significantly better for some languages than others. There is now the "story" feature for some languages, which helps a lot with reading comprehension, especially after you get past the first few easy tiers of stories. I'd say that completing the Duolingo tree in German got me through a similar level of grammar that my four years in high school did, but what it is lacking is the many hours of listening practice and vocabulary practice. Disclaimer: I have no connection to Duolingo or any of the other tools I mentioned; I am simply a fan.
- uoaei 7y ago
  People see it that way because Duolingo explicitly markets themselves that way. I invite you to go to their splash page for an example. https://www.duolingo.com/ https://www.duolingo.com/
- ape4 7y ago
  Isn't Duolingo just spaced repetition.
  - gbear605 7y ago
    Duolingo tries to do some spaced repetition, but it’s not very effective. Spaced repetition should be at least explicitly memorizing the definition of vocabulary (and related uses) with a smart algorithm while Duolingo only exposes you to words occasionally, in the form of sentences.
  - xxxtentachyon 7y ago
    It's definitely not "just" spaced repetition in the way that Anki is (asking you how difficult it was to recall the answer and choosing to ask you again at some time "t + now" in the future, where "t" is determined by your answer). As far as I can tell, as you're working through a tree in Duolingo, it tries to sprinkle in words that you've seen a few checkpoints ago, but it doesn't seem to do so dynamically based on demonstrated mastery or lack thereof of the words sprinkled back in.

orliesaurus 7y ago

They have users... but the tool(app), other than being really cute and well made, is super basic... You can't expect to be fluent enough in a language JUST with Duolingo, at most you will be able to read a few sentences and spit out a few basic sentences and words. Is that enough? Definitely not. Not for me at least. They basically give you the 'hello world' of a language. I speak 5 languages (learned through school and life choices) but when I tried to learn a 6th on Duolingo I felt like the experience was not good enough for me. A tutor or a class would probably be mandatory and using Duolingo just for re-affirming some basic concepts would be a nice to have, like a companion app..but they have to be able to let teachers create their own lessons.

henrikschroder 7y ago
I've tried duolingo, but it's not for me. It just teaches you phrases and words, without teaching you the structure. I need grammar rules and lists of prepositions and verb endings. I need ten examples in a row where you change out a single word, to teach you how it changes the rest of the sentence. Duolingo is just random flashcards, claiming to be grouped into lessons. I can absolutely see it as a companion tool to a proper language course, but it's not sufficient in itself, at least not for me.
trilliumbaker 7y ago
I worked as a language teacher for a while. You see products like Duolingo come along all the time. They're always accompanied by hype in how they will help you become fluent. It's simply not the case. The products are not necessarily useless, but they only help some people make some progress some of the time. They never live up to the hype around them. Language acquisition is a multifaceted endeavor which takes time and effort. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either misinformed or lying. (There are some outliers who can learn/acquire languages with great speed, but they're very rare.)
- charlesism 7y ago
  > Anyone who tells you otherwise is either misinformed or lying. Duolingo's "Goal" settings: > Basic 1XP | Casual 10XP | Regular 20XP | Serious 30XP | Insane 50XP per day 50XP requires no more than 25 minutes of work. So, according to Duolingo, it is "Insane" to devote 25 minutes per day on learning a language. To learn a language typically requires 50,000 minutes. And that's just to reach a basic level. I wonder if Duolingo's "Casual" learners realize that that setting implies a 30 year commitment.

sfblah 7y ago

This company apparently has a $100mm revenue run rate. How? I read somewhere that companies pay for translations from learners. Does that make sense? These are people with very low fluency. Does anyone with more info know more about their revenue model?

mlinsey 7y ago
There is also a monthly subscription plan. Dunno what their conversion rate is, but recently (maybe sometime this year?) they added a game-style resource mechanic where any mistake makes you lose a heart, which you gain back either by waiting a few hours or by being a premium user.
- sfblah 7y ago
  Thanks for the info.

AWildC182 7y ago

Surprised Duolingo is the first out of Pittsburgh. There's a huge tech scene out there with tons of interesting stuff happening but with a reasonable cost of living. They have the top ranked CS program plus a bunch of interesting robotics stuff going on.

dgacmu 7y ago
The VC-funded part is tricky to evaluate. FORE systems (in the 80s/90s) was worth almost $7b in 2019 dollars at the time of its acquisition. But I'm not sure if they took VC funding. Avere Systems was (2018?) acquired by Microsoft, but the terms weren't disclosed, so it's unclear if they grew a centrally located cranial horn or not. There've been others in similar ranges.
- wskish 7y ago
  FORE Systems (NADSAQ:FORE 1994 IPO) was funded by Battery Ventures and one other VC firm so it was definitely the first. https://www.battery.com/our-companies/company/fore-systems/ https://www.battery.com/our-companies/company/fore-systems/
OnlineGladiator 7y ago
As someone who went to CMU, there are just so few investors in Pittsburgh. In fact, many years ago I was talking with Severin Hacker (Duolingo cofounder) about some of the challenges of running a company there. There is a lot of engineering talent...and that's it. Marketing? Business development? There just aren't (or weren't) that many people there. I also know that Anki moved to San Francisco because it was the only way they could raise money. I also left Pittsburgh because it was the only way I could raise money. So long as the investors are in the Bay Area, it will continue to be the startup mecca of the world. That does seem to be slowly changing, but not nearly as fast as anyone promoting their city as the next startup hub is willing to admit.
- Cyph0n 7y ago
  I’m currently based in NC. Pittsburgh caught my eye as a potential place to move to, but it’s just too far away from... everything. I also understand it’s a very “sporty” city, which is something I’m not very into.

edgarvaldes 7y ago

Reading so many criticisms about the quality and depth of knowledge acquired through Duolingo (deserved, by the way)... is there an alternative app?

stazz1 7y ago
Full Disclosure: one of the developers of Japanese Complete here. We are aiming at providing learners with a full path to native-level comprehension and fluency. We estimate it'll take ambitious learners 3-5 years to complete everything. You can subscribe monthly. https://learnjapanese.best https://learnjapanese.best has more information
gbear605 7y ago
There are lots of other general language learning apps, but they’re all about the same as Duolingo. However, more specific apps can be a very useful tool. Specifically, using a spaced repetition software is the best way to memorize vocabulary. I personally use Mnemosyne, which is open source, but there’s also Anki, Memrise, and a number of others.
ddevault 7y ago
I think that it's important to acknowledge that an effective language learning approach is multi-faceted and learner-specific. Any single app can only be a small part of a larger learning strategy, combined with books or podcasts or tutors or reading and listening practice or making friends with native speakers... you need it all.
lazyasciiart 7y ago
No. The criticism of Duolingo is "it's an app", and not a native speaker or proper class.
viburnum 7y ago
I love Duolingo and think it's great. I took two languages in school and another for a job and I've learned more with Duolingo than with formal education. I think if you're a certain kind of nerd then learning from a textbook works great but for me the casual little lessons in Duolingo are just right. I know two sets of linguist parents and they think it's great and have their kids on it.

cozos 7y ago

I have been using Duolingo for about 7 months now and have made much more progress in it than any of the language classes I took in high school and college. I think the reason is because course based language lessons focus mostly on teaching grammar to be tested on exams. On the other hand, Duolingo focuses on repetition and practice which helps you retain what you learned and build an intuition for the language.

zeta0134 7y ago
Same. I'm a little annoyed with some parts of the UI (it seems somehow too encouraging) but the basic utility of the app is hard to beat. The streak system is just enough of a motivator to encourage users to keep at it every day, and that consistency is shockingly effective. The UI is also laser-focused to be approachable, especially on mobile, which I think is the right choice given their broad target audience. It's not going to satisfy power users, but that's not the point. The actual lesson content is basic, and you'll want to supplement it with broader learning materials and reading in the target language as soon as you're remotely able, but as a jump start from "never spoken a word of this language" to "able to recognize basic grammar patterns, and get the general gist of what I'm reading" it accomplishes this goal quite well, and for very low effort on the part of the user. I can finish my Duolingo rounds in about 15 minutes every day; the hardest part is just remembering to do it. There's something to be said for what they've achieved there.
busterarm 7y ago
I used Duolingo to start learning Danish and within about 6 months had 5*'d almost down to the end of the tree. I always felt like something was missing and enrolled in actual Danish classes from the university here, taught by a native speaker. Within 4 weeks of class I'd stopped using Duolingo, but I'm still studying and continuing with classes (lessons with a native speaker). I felt that in many places it was inaccurate, prepared me poorly for written conversations with Danes (and don't even get me started on speaking/proununciation), and didn't provide any of the cultural nuance really needed to understand the language and how Danish people construct their sentences. I guess it's good for vocabulary, but not as good as simple flash cards.

bsder 7y ago

> Language-learning app Duolingo is valued at $1.5 billion after a $30 million investment by Alphabet's CapitalG. Erm, so Alphabet threw in $30 million for 3% in a Series F that has already taken $138 million (I wonder what kind of preferences they got on that, LOL) and magically Duolingo is a unicorn. Uh, yeah, sure. Basically, Alphabet paid $30 million for a lot of user information to throw into the voracious Google maw.

shadowgovt 7y ago
I'm not sure how you get there from the investment. The $30mil doesn't get Google access to Duolingo's data.
- bsder 7y ago
  Google paid $30 million for 3%. Even the most optimistic unicorn projection isn't going to return much of a multiplier on that. Pearson is a behemoth in the space, and it's, what, about a $5 billion company? The financials simply don't add up. So there is some very important aspect of the deal that can't be publicly announced. The only thing Google would want from Duolingo that would have to be kept on the down low would be lots of user data.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Or they think the project has legitimate worth and this team is the right one to execute (people having more language knowledge makes it easier to make the world's information universally accessible). Or it's a favor to a high-value ex-Googler. Google's been known to pay big numbers to keep key people happy; maybe they're making a long-term investment in Luis von Ahn under the assumption he may come back some day.

wyxuan 7y ago

Great app. 151+ day streak on it. I think there are some problems with monetization (right now the free tier has just as many features as the paid tier), but it is really a great tool.

unglaublich 7y ago
That's probably because you are in another A/B test group. In mine, I can make up to 5 mistakes a day, before I am cut off for the rest of the day (except when I pay, of course).

dmode 7y ago

Just for comparison there are 95 unicorns in the Bay Area. The gap is just mind boggling

anonu 7y ago
You would imagine with all the universities in Pittsburgh, low cost of living, etc.. you would have better outcomes... At least measured in unicorns
ascorbic 7y ago
The Bay Area is an outlier on pretty much every scale. It's not a valuable comparison.

telesilla 7y ago

For all its faults, we can't argue with the fact that thanks to the popularity of this app many people have engaged with another language, even if it fails to deliver. Overall, on a global level, this increases compassion and global understanding through cultural exposure. I can't possibly be against it for that.

kachurovskiy 7y ago

I went till the end of the tree on Duolingo 5 years ago on just the free tier. Installed it a few months ago for my daughter and now the free tier is useless, can't do much at all. Memrise is more useful on free tier but quite buggy. I was looking into building a language learning app the other day to help my spouse with their passion but the market appears over-saturated. The only niche I see is for a good game teaching English alike https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.prodigygame.prodigy https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.prodigygam... but that's not something I can arrange. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pC4k3i-U8-uSAsd2qrg_EX-k52XsxMpIfhqx76HWQ3s/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pC4k3i-U8-uSAsd2qrg_EX-k...

acspock 7y ago

Duolingo isn't as simple as some of these comments make it out to be. I can only speak for Spanish as I'm 75% done through the new tree (one more group to go). They have actual written, albeit small bite sized written lessons for every lesson branch. If you compiled all the written lessons (the bulb icon next to each lesson) you would have an introductory Spanish text book. I also take lessons on italki and my gf is a native spanish speaker. It's a great supplement tool if you're consistent.

cryptozeus 7y ago

Imo all these complaints against duolingo not being good enough are not fair. Have you seen the alternatives ? I mean they did get 1 billion dollars for not nothing !

unglaublich 7y ago
Have you used it? You're limited in learning when you make a few mistakes/typos. As if mistakes are bad!? Then you need to pay to continue that day. Just a new cash-cow feature.
charlesism 7y ago
They have the most money because they got the most users. They got the most users because their courses demand the least effort. I have used several of the alternatives, and all of them are more effective at teaching languages. Granted, Duolingo is better at raising money.
- cryptozeus 7y ago
  And why is that bad ? If users can learn with least effort then isn’t that better:)
  - charlesism 7y ago
    It’s bad because it takes a very long time for a language learner to assess their own progress. Duolingo relies on its userbase making an uninformed choice. If Duolingo warned a user “it will take a you 30 years of daily ‘Casual Level’ use to learn the basics here” he or she would likely choose a different website or strategy.
    - cryptozeus 7y ago
      Product market fit does not lie. There is a reason they have user base and activate users who keeps coming back.
      - 7y ago

org3432 7y ago

I used Duolingo for about 1 month to learn Portuguese and was close to the end of the tree. I learned quite a lot, the grammar drills were useful introduction and basic vocabulary, however I stopped using it due to it requiring me to translate back into English which made it hard to think in the language. I bought other books, like side by side texts, and grammar books to continue and watch YouTube videos from Brazil to drill in the sound of the language. I learned German at a University in a German speaking country, and the classes were completely in German from day one which I found helpful. I also bought quite a number of books and studied quite a lot before I become fluent. So I don’t think an app is a one stop solution, it takes a lot of material, I’m not sure why people think any one system is enough, especially considering you never stop learning a language. Fluent just means you know enough to continue to learn in the language on your own.

m0zg 7y ago

I'm fluent in 2 languages, and can read French as well, but when I tried to learn Japanese through Duolingo, it was an epic fail. Beyond some very basic things, it was pretty clear that not only the developers don't use the service themselves, they also don't really listen to people who do use it in any kind of a consistent fashion.

skelet 7y ago

Duolingo is super frustrating if you're learning Spain-Spanish, there are lots of complaints of them not adding Spanish variants of words and Duolingo hasn't moved on it at all in 5+ years. The premium version is not worth it at all.

qxnqd 7y ago

The thread is full of "Duolingo sucks, just use XXX instead", for a wide array of XXX alternatives. Now to pick a good XXX...

emrhzc 7y ago

first VC-funded $1 billion Pittsburgh tech start-up? wow that's unique.

k__ 7y ago

After some people here said DL isn't good to learn a language, what are really useful alternatives?

munmaek 7y ago
If you truly want to learn a language, no singular app will work. You need to find a good curriculum for your language for grammar. Typically this means taking a class or buying a good textbook. Sometimes you get lucky and find a comprehensive website. For audio / speaking practice, I recommend glossika. It’s like a modern version of pimsleur. For vocabulary I recommend Anki. I have used that for the last two years and written about it. Generally you can start with a premade deck and eventually make your own once you’re a little bit more advanced in the language. For talking to people, try HelloTalk. You can make posts and natives can correct them, and you can have conversations with native speakers. Once you are intermediate or advanced+, you need to start consuming native material. Try searching on YouTube, or look for graded readers. Searching reddit about recommended textbooks / etc is usually useful, depending on how popular your language is.

nathancahill 7y ago

Also, notably, Luis von Ahn is the first Guatemalan unicorn founder.

Grue3 7y ago

I stopped using Duolingo when they added my native language and there was no way to change the "base language" back to English. Thankfully Anki will never do me dirty like this.