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Microsoft introduces Windows 10 X for dual-screen devices

372 points by aminecodes 7y ago

vidanay 7y ago
Now we can all be 10 X developers!
- rvz 7y ago
  Good point, but I do concur with you that the 10 X developer legend has always been fortold through out the years and it is now a 'reality' thanks to Microsoft: 𝔜𝔢 𝔞𝔯 𝔫𝔬𝔴 𝔚𝔦𝔫𝔡𝔬𝔴𝔰 10𝔵 𝔡𝔢𝔳𝔢𝔩𝔬𝔭𝔯.
- callalex 7y ago
  Give it enough time and there will even be certification programs!
  - buboard 7y ago
    Here’s your 10 certificates
- djsumdog 7y ago
  Slightly off topic, but with Android going back to version numbers instead of desert names, the next version will be Android 10 .. so we'll have Windows 10, macOS X (10.something) and Android 10. Arguably, Apple has been in the 10 camp longest. Windows 10 X just sounds like reverse macOS (MacOS X 10.x)
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    Minor nitpick - macOS no longer has an "X" in its name. The latest version is just macOS 10.14.6.
  - joombaga 7y ago
    > desert "dessert". Easy mnemonic: It's so sweet they had to give it two S's :) (thanks Justin McElroy)
  - solarkraft 7y ago
    The iPhone X is also still a thing, as well as a lot of Android phones on the bandwagon (and various products like the Tesla Model X, X Windows, X-Files). I have been irritated by the X-trend for a while, but now it's really getting insane.
- mikepurvis 7y ago
  To be honest, I was hoping this would have something to do with first party supply for X Windows on Windows, so that I could kick VcXsrv to the curb.
  - cobalt 7y ago
    i use a uwp app called x410. havent used it a ton but works pretty well for me. Also why would that ever happen...
    - mikepurvis 7y ago
      It probably wouldn't, but then a few years ago I would never have guessed we'd be getting things like WSL, a real terminal, and native SSH.
- awillen 7y ago
  Came here to make this joke, glad someone beat me to it :)
d--b 7y ago
That looks quite inconvenient. I think it'd have been better if the screen could be unhinged, and only held together by a cable. That way, I and someone across the table could follow something on the same computer, but on a different screen. In fact, if I could attach as many screens as I wanted, that'd be pretty cool...
- Spearchucker 7y ago
  So you want two devices that communicate via a network? Or one device with muitiple monitors? Which are both already possible...
  - nkrisc 7y ago
    Of course it's already possible, but is it convenient? You're sitting at an airport gate and want to show something to your travel partner on your device. You unhinge the second monitor and hand it to them. That's what I envision based on what they described, not sending them a WebEx link or trying to setup some kind of screen share.
    - jdironman 7y ago
      If you're already in physical proximity of them there is no need for a webex or any other remote connection. You just show them your screen.
      - nkrisc 7y ago
        That's not the point. The GP comment clearly referred to using the second screen to share with someone nearby, such that two grown adults don't have to huddle around a single screen, possibly sharing earbuds. If you know where someone lives, why have a phone when you can send them a letter, right? The point is, if you have two screens on your device, it would be useful to be able to unhinge one (possibly still tethered) to make it more convenient and comfortable for a second person to view what's on your device. I would absolutely buy something like that for doing in person usability testing with prototypes in settings outside a usability lab.
cma 7y ago
> So while a regular PC will boot up and immediately run all of the services necessary to run a Win32 application, for example, Windows 10X won’t load this subsystem until it’s needed. This, the company argues, allows it to be very efficient with the resources available on the machine and extend its battery life significantly. Hopefully they won't decide it is never needed.
- throwaway8941 7y ago
  They have already tried this one. It didn't end well.
  - oliveshell 7y ago
    Exactly; they got that out of their system with Windows RT. (And apparently the upcoming Windows 10 for ARM will ship with Win32 support via emulation.)
    - dspillett 7y ago
      Win32 is an OS API, which doesn't necessarily relate to the CPU or other chipset members. Do you mean it will Win10 for ARM will support code targetted at ia32/amd64 CPUs via emulation?
    - mrpippy 7y ago
      Windows 10 on ARM has been shipping for over a year, and it has an x86 (but not x86-64) emulator. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/
      - oliveshell 7y ago
        Oops, thanks— clearly I’ve not been following things too closely! (I think I wrongly assumed it wasn’t out yet since I hadn’t heard of a new ARM-based Surface release.)
  - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
someonehere 7y ago
I don’t understand the appeal but if there’s a market for it, it must be somewhere I never thought to look.
- mattnewport 7y ago
  I use my Surface with a pen running OneNote as a notebook quite a bit. The main use case for me is as my notebook in Farsi classes but I think it would work well in most classroom situations where you want to take freeform digital notes and perhaps mix them with sketches. When using it as a notebook the keyboard is folded away and having a second screen could be useful, the most obvious use case to me is having reference material on one screen while making notes on the other. The nice thing about the Surface is that you can use it as a full Windows laptop as well and with the keyboard add on it looks like the Neo should work for that as well. Given these devices are quite expensive but also very portable it's nice to have that all in one functionality, particularly when taking short work trips.
chasing 7y ago
The dual screens look like a marketing gimmick in search of an actual use...
- rstupek 7y ago
  One persons marketing gimmick is another persons innovation
- joe5150 7y ago
  What about the ASUS ZenBook Pros that already have two screens?
  - Iwan-Zotow 7y ago
    Are they popular? Just curious...
    - joe5150 7y ago
      Good question. I don't know, but they are well-reviewed.
- holy_city 7y ago
  I disagree, screen real estate is precious.
  - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
    Presumably you can still use a window manager to page through all that content.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    Which I agree with -- but the device they're showing it off on looks pretty cramped for screen real estate. It has two 9" screens. If we guess those are 16:9 displays, that's about 69 square inches of space... which is actually a few square inches smaller than a single 13" display of the same ratio. (72 square inches)
- 7y ago
tvanantwerp 7y ago
Meanwhile, I'm still dealing with random scaling bugs from connecting external monitors with lower pixel density to my high pixel density Surface Pro devices. Only thing that really "fixes" it is setting a custom scaling factor of 100% and reducing the Surface's resolution to make it still readable. (Then I end up with black bars along the edges, as the lower resolution options aren't the same 3:2 aspect ratio as the native resolution...) This has been a many-years struggle and I wish Windows would get this right first. Never had the same kind of problems with macOS.
- codeulike 7y ago
  Wait, I do this all the time with my Surface Pro 3. It just kinda works, in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. My settings are 'extend these displays', scaling 175% on the Surface and 100% on the regular monitor. RDP is a bit trickier if you're connecting to an old-ish server but I found a way round that too.
- com2kid 7y ago
  Do this daily, it should work fine. Are you cloning the display? That'll require scaling of some type. If you want to only use the external display that should work fine, if you "close" the Surface it should be smart enough to not go to sleep and instead to just route everything to the external screen. If you are extending, then Windows 10 has supported monitors with different DPI scaling factors for awhile as well. The option isn't that apparent. Right click desktop, display settings, you can select a monitor and set the DPI scaling on that particular display. If you are cloning the Surface's display to an external, then yeah, you'll have a hard time about it. High DPI + different aspect ratio.
  - tvanantwerp 7y ago
    It's extending while still using the Surface screen, and it does automatically get the DPI correct. Used to have issues with specific programs, some bits comically large and some comically small. That seems to have stopped, but the latest bug I've been dealing with involves a white bar along the top of one of the external monitors (always the left one, oddly) about an inch thick that renders that part of the screen unusual. Custom DPI of 100% for all monitors is the only thing that makes that stop. Seen it for two or three users out of ~35 so far. I'll say that the scaling problems have overall improved and most of the time it works. But it still breaks randomly and often enough that I notice.
mc32 7y ago
One thing I’m looking forward to in regular laptops is handling of change in monitor hardware state when docking and undocking. It can take a while for the system to figure things out, other times it’s a hard reset... all that said, it’s handled better than mosx which has a frustrating relationship with multiple external displays.
- jedberg 7y ago
  > it’s handled better than mosx which has a frustrating relationship with multiple external displays. I have two external displays, one over thunderbolt and one HDMI, and the Mac seems to have no trouble putting my windows where they belong whether I'm on just the laptop screen, just one external monitor or both. What I've found though is the trick seems to be to make sure you have all your monitors plugged in before you log in. I always make the monitor changes when my laptop is locked.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    This works well enough for me on Windows 10, but I have similar issues to you with MacOS
- swiley 7y ago
  If you want speed just run Linux and use the xrandr command. If you use a "pager" program (google virtual desktops vs workspaces) your windows probably don't even have to move around.
jonknee 7y ago
Microsoft is using Android! Lauren Goode got a great quote from Satya on this topic: > When I asked Satya Nadella whether Microsoft ever thought about reviving a true Windows mobile OS, he told me: "The operating system is no longer the most important layer for us...What is most important for us is the app model and the experience." https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1179421631506210822 https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1179421631506210822 Update: my apologies, this is for the other dual screen device announced today (lots of new products!). They are releasing an Android phone with a similar hinge setup.
- nradov 7y ago
  As long as Google owns the mobile OS, Microsoft will never be able to maintain any significant control over the app model or user experience.
  - tyingq 7y ago
    Maybe a veiled hint at doing something like the Amazon Fire Phone, only more thoughtfully?
    - mcny 7y ago
      Personally, the Fire phone's biggest folly was price, not lack of Google Play. I know I am being irrational but my perspective is very different for a phone introduced at $500+ vs one at sub $200. If they could find a way to eat the losses and sell it at sub $200, a lot of people would buy the phone. That and nobody asked for the weird 3D view thing or whatever it was called.
      - adventured 7y ago
        No question price was the single biggest mistake in the Fire Phone. It was one of the notable times Amazon betrayed how they usually go after product segments, with relatively low prices and relatively high quality. Going after a very high volume, low price phone at good quality, is exactly what they should have done. Amazon saw the money machine that Apple had and thought they could slice off part of it (just $4-$6b in income would have been huge for Amazon back then); at that time AWS was not yet spitting off a large amount of operating income, so they were still thrashing around for high margin homerun that would give them some operating breathing room (same reason they took shots at eBay in auctions and Google in search). Instead of treating the Fire Phone like the rest of their hardware efforts, they reached for margin. I'm slightly surprised they haven't taken another shot at a high volume, low price Fire phone. For further device distribution purposes (to layer services on). Why bother to continue with tablets and not do anything in phones. I've been assuming it's because of the stink of that failure, they're biding their time.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
losthobbies 7y ago
The courier!
kbumsik 7y ago
It reminds me how the first Surface Pro looked like. It was incomplete and useless device so it didn't go well. However, Microsoft didn't give up. After three iterations Microsoft finally made Surface Pro 3, which was the first useful Windows tablet with a cleverly designed keyboard and a great 3:2 ratio screen. The surface line finally took off and third-parties began to make "surface-like" products since then. Microsoft is not like Apple. They don't make perfect products at the beginning, but they eventually nailed it after some iterations (I know they still have software issues though.) So I will wait and see what Microsoft will make in the next generations.
- Analemma_ 7y ago
  There is a potential difference though: with the Surface, Microsoft only needed to iterate on the hardware, which it could do by itself. My concern with Windows 10X is that it requires buy-in from developers to reach its full potential, and that has been lacking. To be blunt, UWP attracted basically no developer attention (which is a shame, it was a pretty good development environment). Unless they figure out how to turn that situation around, the Surface Duo might be a fantastic Office machine but nothing else.
  - neogodless 7y ago
    Minor correction: The Duo is the Android phone. The Windows X tablet is called the Neo.
  - tasogare 7y ago
    > UWP attracted basically no developer attention (which is a shame, it was a pretty good development environment). This is not a shame, this is the logical consequence of all to lies told to the Windows Phone community, which could have bootstrapped UWP but was totally demotivated when UWP was released. But the main reason is the stupid decision to make UWP available only on Windows 10, at a time where Win7 had the highest marketshare. Microsoft should focus on making WPF multi-platform if it wants developer to be excited again to develop native software on Windows.
    - 7y ago
zokier 7y ago
Considering that Windows has been supporting multiple displays for what, 20 years now, it feels bit odd to make that the headline feature
- lucb1e 7y ago
  Yeah I'm really wondering why it is news that Windows runs on a device that has 2 screens connected. Can anyone who upvoted explain what was interesting about this? Or if you didn't, at least why we need a new version of Windows to do the same as standard Windows already could?
  - naikrovek 7y ago
    It has dual monitor awareness built in and assumed, which vanilla Windows 10 does not. For example, tapping a link on one screen opens the browser on the opposite screen, always. That simply doesn't happen on vanilla Windows 10, as the OS isn't aware of the concept of multiple displays at that level. To most of Windows, you appear to simply have a single large display when you are using multiple displays. There are plenty of things with multiple monitor awareness, but it isn't inherent as it is with 10 X.
- deckar01 7y ago
  Windows multi-display functionality has regressed with packet based display protocols. Turning Display Port monitors off with their power button is a nightmare. All of your windows get squished down to so tiny size and moved over to one monitor. They won't fix it, because they consider it a power user use case that should be solved by leaving everything on or turning the entire computer off. There is an entire after market of hardware hacks built just to trick Windows into thinking the monitor is still connected.
  - berti 7y ago
    And then when you bring a KVM switch into the mix... sometimes it works well, the rest of the time it does what you described, or just gives up and decides there are no monitors until you replug them.
tibbydudeza 7y ago
A Surface "Duo" phone running Microsoft tailored Android.
ocdtrekkie 7y ago
Microsoft is showing true commitment to their new OS for dual-screen devices, by only putting it on one of their new dual-screen devices. I think it's really weird they didn't talk even slightly how 10 X will fit into the Windows family down the road. I guess it's a hardware event, but everything Microsoft has been held back by the software lately, so that's really what I want to hear about.
Beltiras 7y ago
I think this is the Microsoft release on it [1]. I refuse to accept Oath cookies. [1] https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2019/10/02/surface-reveals-new-holiday-lineup-and-introduces-a-new-category-of-dual-screen-devices-built-for-mobile-productivity/ https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2019/10/02/surface-reveals...
alexk7 7y ago
The whole concept of OS integration across devices is a complete failure for Microsoft. Calling this new thing a "new OS" sounds like a failure to fulfill what the Windows brand used to mean: support across a large range of devices. Isn't Windows already supporting multiple display? Maybe not in the "tablet" sub-OS... which is clearly not up to the standard set by the "desktop" sub-OS. Anyway, the only thing that keeps Windows relevant even today is its classic Win32 API applications. Everything else they tried to do has always been half-baked. I'm not optimist for the future of the platform.
- enumjorge 7y ago
  Where are you getting that someone is calling this a "new OS"? From the article: > The company stresses that this is not a new operating system but takes Windows 10 as you know it today and makes it more adaptable to other form factors.
  - cjarrett 7y ago
    Definitely not the same OS as Desktop windows 10. It might run all the same apps, however.
shrthnd 7y ago
Now how about Windows 10 for my Raspberry Pi?
- jodrellblank 7y ago
  https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/install-windows-10-on-raspberry-pi,5993.html https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/install-windows-10-on-r...
mensetmanusman 7y ago
Would this let them emulate the switch?
Skunkleton 7y ago
So Windows X X?
asenna 7y ago
For people saying dual screen is a gimmick, have you not wanted to replicate multi-screen setup on your laptop (while traveling or when not on your desktop)? Power users have always wanted more screen real estate! I've been eyeing the Asus Zenbook Pro Duo[1] ever since they've been announced (currently using a Macbook Pro 2015). I usually carry around an Asus portable second screen for my laptop in my backpack and this dual screen laptop trend is exactly what I wanted! I'm definitely upgrading to a dual screen option next. Although I have no hope from Apple, I'm still waiting to see what the next MBP iteration would be. All they need to do is stretch that stupid touchbar enough to be a respectable second screen. [1] - https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ZenBook-Pro-Duo-UX581GV/ https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ZenBook-Pro-Duo-UX581GV/
- swiley 7y ago
  It might be useful if there was a decent mobile OS that ran on it and also had an overlapping window manager. Honestly the OS is way more interesting than the hardware.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  I'm a pretty dedicated mac user but that machine has me intrigued. Still, I did laugh at some of the marketing: "Celestial Blue futuristic sense" edit: But why did they have to include Alexa. Dammit.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I've been scratching my head trying to think how this could be used; I guess as a folding monitor makes some sense - but I wonder how big that market would be?
- georgeecollins 7y ago
  I don't understand how anyone could think dual screen is a gimmick that had a DS. There were a lot of games that put those two screens to good use. I am serious.
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    I know it's not the same thing, but damn the Nintendo DS sold me on multi screen games. Wish there were more.
Abishek_Muthian 7y ago
I'm liking the direction laptop makers are taking by differentiating at hardware level especially with displays, Asus has multiple dual display laptops and now Microsoft's surface lineup. With WindowsX partnership, this is going to kick off a slew of multi-display computing devices. But as a non-windows user, I'm wondering what these hardware specific Windows changes are going to do to the Linux ecosystem. I'm sure, display output to these multiple displays would likely work OOB; but the availability of an app ecosystem which can make use of these dual displays offering unique productivity advantages would be questionable.
- Aardappel 7y ago
  Want to "innovate" in laptop screens? How about giving us our 4:3 laptop screens back? Or (drool) 5:4 ? Most content (web pages, documents, code) is longer than it is wide, so any more square ratio is going to be an improvement over these silly "movie" ratio 16:9 screens. MS's 3:2 ratio screens are an improvement, but.. we can do more! Hell, I'd <insert "shut up and take my money" meme> LOVE a 1:1 screen on a laptop! Imagine a 15" diagonal 1:1 screen, which would be as wide as a current 12" laptop or so, just a ton taller. Anything with text on that would be glorious.
  - buboard 7y ago
    Phones are bigger offenders. Thanks for all the 1:9 tall videos , apple n samsung
  - Pxtl 7y ago
    Dual-screen laptop where the second screen is above the first? Then it would be tall, but you'd have the screen split in the middle. Maybe if Samsung ever gets their foldable screen mayhem hammered out properly that could work.
  - mhermher 7y ago
    The screens get wobbly at that point. I think 3:2 is pretty good.
    - 7y ago
Iv 7y ago
And when will it support dual boot?
ohbleek 7y ago
If you think there isn’t a market for a dual screen device, step into a med school or any professional school. Half of my classmates carry around two devices specifically to have a second screen for referencing videos, notes, articles, etc... personally I can’t wait to get the neo. I have a 15” surface book 2 and it’s served me well but I would love a second screen with the same versatility of my sb2.
lone_haxx0r 7y ago
Ok, now make it not shut itself down randomly for updates.
- knd775 7y ago
  This doesn't happen. Tired meme.
cryptozeus 7y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmaioTs0NH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmaioTs0NH8 @ 1:10:00 mark for tablet. I did not see the keyboard coming ! Great job microsoft
summerlight 7y ago
Some HN users are denying, but the recent trends definitely shows that most users values screen real estate a lot. The only problem here is that screen size and device form factor has been physically coupled to each other so you cannot have a useful phone with 13 inches screen. While MS' solution is not the most elegant one, but now technological advances on flexible screen makes it possible to de-couple them. I'm pretty sure that MS is looking forward to using this technology, but also wants to get into the market as soon as possible. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of new form factors MS will bring into the market in coming years; they have been pretty innovative in this area.
bschne 7y ago
This just reminded me that SideShow was a thing in Vista times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow
- pedrocx486 7y ago
  English link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow
  - bschne 7y ago
    Thx, edited.
smallbigfish 7y ago
I like those pictures. They only show the two hands that are holding the device. The third hand touching the screen is missing.
- buboard 7y ago
  I believe u re supposed to use your nose
  - belltaco 7y ago
    Emacs users are ready.
agumonkey 7y ago
remember the 2000s grand demo that never realized ? MS folio ?
baybal2 7y ago
I'm very surprised that Intel gave away Lakefield to Microsoft just for that. Few Intel insiders I knew were talking about Lakefield as almost like a "saviour" product for Intel waning consumer electronics marker appeal.
al2o3cr 7y ago
Was there any specific mention of the device's thickness? The photos look like each side is about the same as a typical tablet, which would make this thing a pretty chonky boi when folded...
- naikrovek 7y ago
  5.6mm per side, I think? Might have been 5.4mm. Each side can be an inch thick, I don't care, as long as the battery lasts a while.
qubex 7y ago
I can’t help but think how prescient Micheal Okuda was when he designed the flat, touchscreen-only LCARS (Library Computer Access and Retrieval System) interfaces for Star Trek: THe Next Generation that first aired way back in 1987, rationalising that he was looking to create a visual style which implied a simplified, abstract system of controlling vastly complex processes in a user-friendly, high-level manner. 32 years on flat GUIs and touchscreen-everywhere interfaces are closing in on his vision. Truly remarkable.
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  The main advantage for Star Trek though was that this kind of device is really easy on the prop department. It’s just a plane of smoke glass with lights shining through a cutout, easy to add the button of the week.
o_p 7y ago
Nice, a phone with half battery duration! Honestly, whats the use for this?
hootbootscoot 7y ago
Where's the "start" menu? Find all the product managers since XP SP3 and send them to work in the salt mines for an eternity or 3...
billziss 7y ago
I would much prefer it if manufacturers created a multi-screen setup with screens next to each other. I can imagine some form of folding or attachment mechanism that converts a single screen laptop to dual or triple screen. Since going "laptop only" many years ago the thing I miss the most is the multi-monitor setup that I used to have and would love it if I was eventually able to recreate this with my laptop. The idea of a second screen above the keyboard does not appeal to me. I have a Macbook Pro with a touch bar and in general I dislike it (even though I have written a custom dock for it, which allows me to reclaim some main screen real estate from the macOS Dock). I understand that this new MSFT screen is bigger and potentially more useful, but the problem of having to look down on the second screen above the keyboard would still be there. (I am aware of macOS Sidecar.)
- datagram 7y ago
  > I can imagine some form of folding of attachment mechanism that converts a single screen laptop to dual or triple screen. Razer is working on exactly this: https://www.razer.com/project-valerie https://www.razer.com/project-valerie
  - mehrdadn 7y ago
    That looks insanely fragile?
  - billziss 7y ago
    Thank you. This looks exactly like what I had in mind. EDIT: Another alternative would be to be able to slide the main screen halfway to the side thus allowing a second screen next to it for a dual screen setup.
  - belltaco 7y ago
    Almost 3 years gone and no updates? Is it a dead product?
hootbootscoot 7y ago
Dual-mouse dual pointer too?
Steko 7y ago
I'd be excited if the small indy company behind Windows 10 could figure out how to stop putting all my windows on one monitor every time the machine sleeps.
ToFab123 7y ago
The Duo is the Android phone. I am one of these weirdos that has been waiting patiently for many years for Microsoft to release a new phone and would have been first in line to buy one, until I received this news. There is just no way I am going to buy a Android that broadcast everything back to Google. Microsoft have completely missed the ball on this one. At least towards the Microsoft users that are not comfortable with sending everything towards Google. Windows 10X on the other hand sounds like an amazing OS. I would have loved to see that on the phone (with android app support to get the app ecosystem going), instead we get a two screen device with a huge bezel in the middle so the screens cannot appear as 1 screen. I am sorry Microsoft, but my money stays in my pocket.
- PostOnce 7y ago
  You're happier broadcasting everything back to Microsoft? What's the difference?
  - ToFab123 7y ago
    Yes, I have no issues with transmitting my digital life back to Microsoft. I have done so since I got my first Hotmail count 20+ ago. Since then, my digital life has in one form or another been connected with Microsoft Services. I have never felt Microsoft has abused this trust I have given them. I have never thought that they have used my information for purposes I am not comfortable with. I have this thing against advertisement agencies. I don't trust them. I felt the same even before Google was there even before my life became digital. It is not something new that I try to limit the information I give to advertisement agencies. Edit: spelling
    - PostOnce 7y ago
      Microsoft sells ads, too. They're integrating them into Windows. Microsoft sells everything that Google sells and more. If Microsoft could have grown Bing as big as Google by doing everything Google did that you distrust, they absolutely would have done so. They would have done it with Windows Phone, too. And they still will, if they can, eventually. I'm not here to start an argument, just to suggest you re-examine your loyalties if you think Microsoft isn't going to screw you if it makes them $5.
fidz 7y ago
Ah, finally we can have 10x developer by developing for Windows 10 X
danlan 7y ago
This gives me hope that the 10GUI concept[1] might finally become a reality [1] - http://10gui.com/video/ http://10gui.com/video/
jdlyga 7y ago
I'd love to have a dual screen tablet like that. One of the reasons I like reading on an iPad is because you can tilt it horizontally and have two screens of paper.

372 points by aminecodes 7y ago

vidanay 7y ago

Now we can all be 10 X developers!

rvz 7y ago
Good point, but I do concur with you that the 10 X developer legend has always been fortold through out the years and it is now a 'reality' thanks to Microsoft: 𝔜𝔢 𝔞𝔯 𝔫𝔬𝔴 𝔚𝔦𝔫𝔡𝔬𝔴𝔰 10𝔵 𝔡𝔢𝔳𝔢𝔩𝔬𝔭𝔯.
callalex 7y ago
Give it enough time and there will even be certification programs!
- buboard 7y ago
  Here’s your 10 certificates
djsumdog 7y ago
Slightly off topic, but with Android going back to version numbers instead of desert names, the next version will be Android 10 .. so we'll have Windows 10, macOS X (10.something) and Android 10. Arguably, Apple has been in the 10 camp longest. Windows 10 X just sounds like reverse macOS (MacOS X 10.x)
- umanwizard 7y ago
  Minor nitpick - macOS no longer has an "X" in its name. The latest version is just macOS 10.14.6.
- joombaga 7y ago
  > desert "dessert". Easy mnemonic: It's so sweet they had to give it two S's :) (thanks Justin McElroy)
- solarkraft 7y ago
  The iPhone X is also still a thing, as well as a lot of Android phones on the bandwagon (and various products like the Tesla Model X, X Windows, X-Files). I have been irritated by the X-trend for a while, but now it's really getting insane.
mikepurvis 7y ago
To be honest, I was hoping this would have something to do with first party supply for X Windows on Windows, so that I could kick VcXsrv to the curb.
- cobalt 7y ago
  i use a uwp app called x410. havent used it a ton but works pretty well for me. Also why would that ever happen...
  - mikepurvis 7y ago
    It probably wouldn't, but then a few years ago I would never have guessed we'd be getting things like WSL, a real terminal, and native SSH.
awillen 7y ago
Came here to make this joke, glad someone beat me to it :)

d--b 7y ago

That looks quite inconvenient. I think it'd have been better if the screen could be unhinged, and only held together by a cable. That way, I and someone across the table could follow something on the same computer, but on a different screen. In fact, if I could attach as many screens as I wanted, that'd be pretty cool...

Spearchucker 7y ago
So you want two devices that communicate via a network? Or one device with muitiple monitors? Which are both already possible...
- nkrisc 7y ago
  Of course it's already possible, but is it convenient? You're sitting at an airport gate and want to show something to your travel partner on your device. You unhinge the second monitor and hand it to them. That's what I envision based on what they described, not sending them a WebEx link or trying to setup some kind of screen share.
  - jdironman 7y ago
    If you're already in physical proximity of them there is no need for a webex or any other remote connection. You just show them your screen.
    - nkrisc 7y ago
      That's not the point. The GP comment clearly referred to using the second screen to share with someone nearby, such that two grown adults don't have to huddle around a single screen, possibly sharing earbuds. If you know where someone lives, why have a phone when you can send them a letter, right? The point is, if you have two screens on your device, it would be useful to be able to unhinge one (possibly still tethered) to make it more convenient and comfortable for a second person to view what's on your device. I would absolutely buy something like that for doing in person usability testing with prototypes in settings outside a usability lab.

cma 7y ago

> So while a regular PC will boot up and immediately run all of the services necessary to run a Win32 application, for example, Windows 10X won’t load this subsystem until it’s needed. This, the company argues, allows it to be very efficient with the resources available on the machine and extend its battery life significantly. Hopefully they won't decide it is never needed.

throwaway8941 7y ago
They have already tried this one. It didn't end well.
- oliveshell 7y ago
  Exactly; they got that out of their system with Windows RT. (And apparently the upcoming Windows 10 for ARM will ship with Win32 support via emulation.)
  - dspillett 7y ago
    Win32 is an OS API, which doesn't necessarily relate to the CPU or other chipset members. Do you mean it will Win10 for ARM will support code targetted at ia32/amd64 CPUs via emulation?
  - mrpippy 7y ago
    Windows 10 on ARM has been shipping for over a year, and it has an x86 (but not x86-64) emulator. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/
    - oliveshell 7y ago
      Oops, thanks— clearly I’ve not been following things too closely! (I think I wrongly assumed it wasn’t out yet since I hadn’t heard of a new ARM-based Surface release.)
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago

someonehere 7y ago

I don’t understand the appeal but if there’s a market for it, it must be somewhere I never thought to look.

mattnewport 7y ago
I use my Surface with a pen running OneNote as a notebook quite a bit. The main use case for me is as my notebook in Farsi classes but I think it would work well in most classroom situations where you want to take freeform digital notes and perhaps mix them with sketches. When using it as a notebook the keyboard is folded away and having a second screen could be useful, the most obvious use case to me is having reference material on one screen while making notes on the other. The nice thing about the Surface is that you can use it as a full Windows laptop as well and with the keyboard add on it looks like the Neo should work for that as well. Given these devices are quite expensive but also very portable it's nice to have that all in one functionality, particularly when taking short work trips.

chasing 7y ago

The dual screens look like a marketing gimmick in search of an actual use...

rstupek 7y ago
One persons marketing gimmick is another persons innovation
joe5150 7y ago
What about the ASUS ZenBook Pros that already have two screens?
- Iwan-Zotow 7y ago
  Are they popular? Just curious...
  - joe5150 7y ago
    Good question. I don't know, but they are well-reviewed.
holy_city 7y ago
I disagree, screen real estate is precious.
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago
  Presumably you can still use a window manager to page through all that content.
- kube-system 7y ago
  Which I agree with -- but the device they're showing it off on looks pretty cramped for screen real estate. It has two 9" screens. If we guess those are 16:9 displays, that's about 69 square inches of space... which is actually a few square inches smaller than a single 13" display of the same ratio. (72 square inches)
7y ago

tvanantwerp 7y ago

Meanwhile, I'm still dealing with random scaling bugs from connecting external monitors with lower pixel density to my high pixel density Surface Pro devices. Only thing that really "fixes" it is setting a custom scaling factor of 100% and reducing the Surface's resolution to make it still readable. (Then I end up with black bars along the edges, as the lower resolution options aren't the same 3:2 aspect ratio as the native resolution...) This has been a many-years struggle and I wish Windows would get this right first. Never had the same kind of problems with macOS.

codeulike 7y ago
Wait, I do this all the time with my Surface Pro 3. It just kinda works, in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. My settings are 'extend these displays', scaling 175% on the Surface and 100% on the regular monitor. RDP is a bit trickier if you're connecting to an old-ish server but I found a way round that too.
com2kid 7y ago
Do this daily, it should work fine. Are you cloning the display? That'll require scaling of some type. If you want to only use the external display that should work fine, if you "close" the Surface it should be smart enough to not go to sleep and instead to just route everything to the external screen. If you are extending, then Windows 10 has supported monitors with different DPI scaling factors for awhile as well. The option isn't that apparent. Right click desktop, display settings, you can select a monitor and set the DPI scaling on that particular display. If you are cloning the Surface's display to an external, then yeah, you'll have a hard time about it. High DPI + different aspect ratio.
- tvanantwerp 7y ago
  It's extending while still using the Surface screen, and it does automatically get the DPI correct. Used to have issues with specific programs, some bits comically large and some comically small. That seems to have stopped, but the latest bug I've been dealing with involves a white bar along the top of one of the external monitors (always the left one, oddly) about an inch thick that renders that part of the screen unusual. Custom DPI of 100% for all monitors is the only thing that makes that stop. Seen it for two or three users out of ~35 so far. I'll say that the scaling problems have overall improved and most of the time it works. But it still breaks randomly and often enough that I notice.

mc32 7y ago

One thing I’m looking forward to in regular laptops is handling of change in monitor hardware state when docking and undocking. It can take a while for the system to figure things out, other times it’s a hard reset... all that said, it’s handled better than mosx which has a frustrating relationship with multiple external displays.

jedberg 7y ago
> it’s handled better than mosx which has a frustrating relationship with multiple external displays. I have two external displays, one over thunderbolt and one HDMI, and the Mac seems to have no trouble putting my windows where they belong whether I'm on just the laptop screen, just one external monitor or both. What I've found though is the trick seems to be to make sure you have all your monitors plugged in before you log in. I always make the monitor changes when my laptop is locked.
- GordonS 7y ago
  This works well enough for me on Windows 10, but I have similar issues to you with MacOS
swiley 7y ago
If you want speed just run Linux and use the xrandr command. If you use a "pager" program (google virtual desktops vs workspaces) your windows probably don't even have to move around.

jonknee 7y ago

Microsoft is using Android! Lauren Goode got a great quote from Satya on this topic: > When I asked Satya Nadella whether Microsoft ever thought about reviving a true Windows mobile OS, he told me: "The operating system is no longer the most important layer for us...What is most important for us is the app model and the experience." https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1179421631506210822 https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1179421631506210822 Update: my apologies, this is for the other dual screen device announced today (lots of new products!). They are releasing an Android phone with a similar hinge setup.

nradov 7y ago
As long as Google owns the mobile OS, Microsoft will never be able to maintain any significant control over the app model or user experience.
- tyingq 7y ago
  Maybe a veiled hint at doing something like the Amazon Fire Phone, only more thoughtfully?
  - mcny 7y ago
    Personally, the Fire phone's biggest folly was price, not lack of Google Play. I know I am being irrational but my perspective is very different for a phone introduced at $500+ vs one at sub $200. If they could find a way to eat the losses and sell it at sub $200, a lot of people would buy the phone. That and nobody asked for the weird 3D view thing or whatever it was called.
    - adventured 7y ago
      No question price was the single biggest mistake in the Fire Phone. It was one of the notable times Amazon betrayed how they usually go after product segments, with relatively low prices and relatively high quality. Going after a very high volume, low price phone at good quality, is exactly what they should have done. Amazon saw the money machine that Apple had and thought they could slice off part of it (just $4-$6b in income would have been huge for Amazon back then); at that time AWS was not yet spitting off a large amount of operating income, so they were still thrashing around for high margin homerun that would give them some operating breathing room (same reason they took shots at eBay in auctions and Google in search). Instead of treating the Fire Phone like the rest of their hardware efforts, they reached for margin. I'm slightly surprised they haven't taken another shot at a high volume, low price Fire phone. For further device distribution purposes (to layer services on). Why bother to continue with tablets and not do anything in phones. I've been assuming it's because of the stink of that failure, they're biding their time.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

losthobbies 7y ago

The courier!

kbumsik 7y ago

It reminds me how the first Surface Pro looked like. It was incomplete and useless device so it didn't go well. However, Microsoft didn't give up. After three iterations Microsoft finally made Surface Pro 3, which was the first useful Windows tablet with a cleverly designed keyboard and a great 3:2 ratio screen. The surface line finally took off and third-parties began to make "surface-like" products since then. Microsoft is not like Apple. They don't make perfect products at the beginning, but they eventually nailed it after some iterations (I know they still have software issues though.) So I will wait and see what Microsoft will make in the next generations.

Analemma_ 7y ago
There is a potential difference though: with the Surface, Microsoft only needed to iterate on the hardware, which it could do by itself. My concern with Windows 10X is that it requires buy-in from developers to reach its full potential, and that has been lacking. To be blunt, UWP attracted basically no developer attention (which is a shame, it was a pretty good development environment). Unless they figure out how to turn that situation around, the Surface Duo might be a fantastic Office machine but nothing else.
- neogodless 7y ago
  Minor correction: The Duo is the Android phone. The Windows X tablet is called the Neo.
- tasogare 7y ago
  > UWP attracted basically no developer attention (which is a shame, it was a pretty good development environment). This is not a shame, this is the logical consequence of all to lies told to the Windows Phone community, which could have bootstrapped UWP but was totally demotivated when UWP was released. But the main reason is the stupid decision to make UWP available only on Windows 10, at a time where Win7 had the highest marketshare. Microsoft should focus on making WPF multi-platform if it wants developer to be excited again to develop native software on Windows.
  - 7y ago

zokier 7y ago

Considering that Windows has been supporting multiple displays for what, 20 years now, it feels bit odd to make that the headline feature

lucb1e 7y ago
Yeah I'm really wondering why it is news that Windows runs on a device that has 2 screens connected. Can anyone who upvoted explain what was interesting about this? Or if you didn't, at least why we need a new version of Windows to do the same as standard Windows already could?
- naikrovek 7y ago
  It has dual monitor awareness built in and assumed, which vanilla Windows 10 does not. For example, tapping a link on one screen opens the browser on the opposite screen, always. That simply doesn't happen on vanilla Windows 10, as the OS isn't aware of the concept of multiple displays at that level. To most of Windows, you appear to simply have a single large display when you are using multiple displays. There are plenty of things with multiple monitor awareness, but it isn't inherent as it is with 10 X.
deckar01 7y ago
Windows multi-display functionality has regressed with packet based display protocols. Turning Display Port monitors off with their power button is a nightmare. All of your windows get squished down to so tiny size and moved over to one monitor. They won't fix it, because they consider it a power user use case that should be solved by leaving everything on or turning the entire computer off. There is an entire after market of hardware hacks built just to trick Windows into thinking the monitor is still connected.
- berti 7y ago
  And then when you bring a KVM switch into the mix... sometimes it works well, the rest of the time it does what you described, or just gives up and decides there are no monitors until you replug them.

tibbydudeza 7y ago

A Surface "Duo" phone running Microsoft tailored Android.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago

Microsoft is showing true commitment to their new OS for dual-screen devices, by only putting it on one of their new dual-screen devices. I think it's really weird they didn't talk even slightly how 10 X will fit into the Windows family down the road. I guess it's a hardware event, but everything Microsoft has been held back by the software lately, so that's really what I want to hear about.

Beltiras 7y ago

I think this is the Microsoft release on it [1]. I refuse to accept Oath cookies. [1] https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2019/10/02/surface-reveals-new-holiday-lineup-and-introduces-a-new-category-of-dual-screen-devices-built-for-mobile-productivity/ https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2019/10/02/surface-reveals...

alexk7 7y ago

The whole concept of OS integration across devices is a complete failure for Microsoft. Calling this new thing a "new OS" sounds like a failure to fulfill what the Windows brand used to mean: support across a large range of devices. Isn't Windows already supporting multiple display? Maybe not in the "tablet" sub-OS... which is clearly not up to the standard set by the "desktop" sub-OS. Anyway, the only thing that keeps Windows relevant even today is its classic Win32 API applications. Everything else they tried to do has always been half-baked. I'm not optimist for the future of the platform.

enumjorge 7y ago
Where are you getting that someone is calling this a "new OS"? From the article: > The company stresses that this is not a new operating system but takes Windows 10 as you know it today and makes it more adaptable to other form factors.
- cjarrett 7y ago
  Definitely not the same OS as Desktop windows 10. It might run all the same apps, however.

shrthnd 7y ago

Now how about Windows 10 for my Raspberry Pi?

jodrellblank 7y ago
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/install-windows-10-on-raspberry-pi,5993.html https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/install-windows-10-on-r...

mensetmanusman 7y ago

Would this let them emulate the switch?

Skunkleton 7y ago

So Windows X X?

asenna 7y ago

For people saying dual screen is a gimmick, have you not wanted to replicate multi-screen setup on your laptop (while traveling or when not on your desktop)? Power users have always wanted more screen real estate! I've been eyeing the Asus Zenbook Pro Duo[1] ever since they've been announced (currently using a Macbook Pro 2015). I usually carry around an Asus portable second screen for my laptop in my backpack and this dual screen laptop trend is exactly what I wanted! I'm definitely upgrading to a dual screen option next. Although I have no hope from Apple, I'm still waiting to see what the next MBP iteration would be. All they need to do is stretch that stupid touchbar enough to be a respectable second screen. [1] - https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ZenBook-Pro-Duo-UX581GV/ https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ZenBook-Pro-Duo-UX581GV/

swiley 7y ago
It might be useful if there was a decent mobile OS that ran on it and also had an overlapping window manager. Honestly the OS is way more interesting than the hardware.
52-6F-62 7y ago
I'm a pretty dedicated mac user but that machine has me intrigued. Still, I did laugh at some of the marketing: "Celestial Blue futuristic sense" edit: But why did they have to include Alexa. Dammit.
GordonS 7y ago
I've been scratching my head trying to think how this could be used; I guess as a folding monitor makes some sense - but I wonder how big that market would be?
georgeecollins 7y ago
I don't understand how anyone could think dual screen is a gimmick that had a DS. There were a lot of games that put those two screens to good use. I am serious.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  I know it's not the same thing, but damn the Nintendo DS sold me on multi screen games. Wish there were more.

Abishek_Muthian 7y ago

I'm liking the direction laptop makers are taking by differentiating at hardware level especially with displays, Asus has multiple dual display laptops and now Microsoft's surface lineup. With WindowsX partnership, this is going to kick off a slew of multi-display computing devices. But as a non-windows user, I'm wondering what these hardware specific Windows changes are going to do to the Linux ecosystem. I'm sure, display output to these multiple displays would likely work OOB; but the availability of an app ecosystem which can make use of these dual displays offering unique productivity advantages would be questionable.

Aardappel 7y ago
Want to "innovate" in laptop screens? How about giving us our 4:3 laptop screens back? Or (drool) 5:4 ? Most content (web pages, documents, code) is longer than it is wide, so any more square ratio is going to be an improvement over these silly "movie" ratio 16:9 screens. MS's 3:2 ratio screens are an improvement, but.. we can do more! Hell, I'd <insert "shut up and take my money" meme> LOVE a 1:1 screen on a laptop! Imagine a 15" diagonal 1:1 screen, which would be as wide as a current 12" laptop or so, just a ton taller. Anything with text on that would be glorious.
- buboard 7y ago
  Phones are bigger offenders. Thanks for all the 1:9 tall videos , apple n samsung
- Pxtl 7y ago
  Dual-screen laptop where the second screen is above the first? Then it would be tall, but you'd have the screen split in the middle. Maybe if Samsung ever gets their foldable screen mayhem hammered out properly that could work.
- mhermher 7y ago
  The screens get wobbly at that point. I think 3:2 is pretty good.
  - 7y ago

Iv 7y ago

And when will it support dual boot?

ohbleek 7y ago

If you think there isn’t a market for a dual screen device, step into a med school or any professional school. Half of my classmates carry around two devices specifically to have a second screen for referencing videos, notes, articles, etc... personally I can’t wait to get the neo. I have a 15” surface book 2 and it’s served me well but I would love a second screen with the same versatility of my sb2.

lone_haxx0r 7y ago

Ok, now make it not shut itself down randomly for updates.

knd775 7y ago
This doesn't happen. Tired meme.

cryptozeus 7y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmaioTs0NH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmaioTs0NH8 @ 1:10:00 mark for tablet. I did not see the keyboard coming ! Great job microsoft

summerlight 7y ago

Some HN users are denying, but the recent trends definitely shows that most users values screen real estate a lot. The only problem here is that screen size and device form factor has been physically coupled to each other so you cannot have a useful phone with 13 inches screen. While MS' solution is not the most elegant one, but now technological advances on flexible screen makes it possible to de-couple them. I'm pretty sure that MS is looking forward to using this technology, but also wants to get into the market as soon as possible. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of new form factors MS will bring into the market in coming years; they have been pretty innovative in this area.

bschne 7y ago

This just reminded me that SideShow was a thing in Vista times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow

pedrocx486 7y ago
English link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow
- bschne 7y ago
  Thx, edited.

smallbigfish 7y ago

I like those pictures. They only show the two hands that are holding the device. The third hand touching the screen is missing.

buboard 7y ago
I believe u re supposed to use your nose
- belltaco 7y ago
  Emacs users are ready.

agumonkey 7y ago

remember the 2000s grand demo that never realized ? MS folio ?

baybal2 7y ago

I'm very surprised that Intel gave away Lakefield to Microsoft just for that. Few Intel insiders I knew were talking about Lakefield as almost like a "saviour" product for Intel waning consumer electronics marker appeal.

al2o3cr 7y ago

Was there any specific mention of the device's thickness? The photos look like each side is about the same as a typical tablet, which would make this thing a pretty chonky boi when folded...

naikrovek 7y ago
5.6mm per side, I think? Might have been 5.4mm. Each side can be an inch thick, I don't care, as long as the battery lasts a while.

qubex 7y ago

I can’t help but think how prescient Micheal Okuda was when he designed the flat, touchscreen-only LCARS (Library Computer Access and Retrieval System) interfaces for Star Trek: THe Next Generation that first aired way back in 1987, rationalising that he was looking to create a visual style which implied a simplified, abstract system of controlling vastly complex processes in a user-friendly, high-level manner. 32 years on flat GUIs and touchscreen-everywhere interfaces are closing in on his vision. Truly remarkable.

tinus_hn 7y ago
The main advantage for Star Trek though was that this kind of device is really easy on the prop department. It’s just a plane of smoke glass with lights shining through a cutout, easy to add the button of the week.

o_p 7y ago

Nice, a phone with half battery duration! Honestly, whats the use for this?

hootbootscoot 7y ago

Where's the "start" menu? Find all the product managers since XP SP3 and send them to work in the salt mines for an eternity or 3...

billziss 7y ago

I would much prefer it if manufacturers created a multi-screen setup with screens next to each other. I can imagine some form of folding or attachment mechanism that converts a single screen laptop to dual or triple screen. Since going "laptop only" many years ago the thing I miss the most is the multi-monitor setup that I used to have and would love it if I was eventually able to recreate this with my laptop. The idea of a second screen above the keyboard does not appeal to me. I have a Macbook Pro with a touch bar and in general I dislike it (even though I have written a custom dock for it, which allows me to reclaim some main screen real estate from the macOS Dock). I understand that this new MSFT screen is bigger and potentially more useful, but the problem of having to look down on the second screen above the keyboard would still be there. (I am aware of macOS Sidecar.)

datagram 7y ago
> I can imagine some form of folding of attachment mechanism that converts a single screen laptop to dual or triple screen. Razer is working on exactly this: https://www.razer.com/project-valerie https://www.razer.com/project-valerie
- mehrdadn 7y ago
  That looks insanely fragile?
- billziss 7y ago
  Thank you. This looks exactly like what I had in mind. EDIT: Another alternative would be to be able to slide the main screen halfway to the side thus allowing a second screen next to it for a dual screen setup.
- belltaco 7y ago
  Almost 3 years gone and no updates? Is it a dead product?

hootbootscoot 7y ago

Dual-mouse dual pointer too?

Steko 7y ago

I'd be excited if the small indy company behind Windows 10 could figure out how to stop putting all my windows on one monitor every time the machine sleeps.

ToFab123 7y ago

The Duo is the Android phone. I am one of these weirdos that has been waiting patiently for many years for Microsoft to release a new phone and would have been first in line to buy one, until I received this news. There is just no way I am going to buy a Android that broadcast everything back to Google. Microsoft have completely missed the ball on this one. At least towards the Microsoft users that are not comfortable with sending everything towards Google. Windows 10X on the other hand sounds like an amazing OS. I would have loved to see that on the phone (with android app support to get the app ecosystem going), instead we get a two screen device with a huge bezel in the middle so the screens cannot appear as 1 screen. I am sorry Microsoft, but my money stays in my pocket.

PostOnce 7y ago
You're happier broadcasting everything back to Microsoft? What's the difference?
- ToFab123 7y ago
  Yes, I have no issues with transmitting my digital life back to Microsoft. I have done so since I got my first Hotmail count 20+ ago. Since then, my digital life has in one form or another been connected with Microsoft Services. I have never felt Microsoft has abused this trust I have given them. I have never thought that they have used my information for purposes I am not comfortable with. I have this thing against advertisement agencies. I don't trust them. I felt the same even before Google was there even before my life became digital. It is not something new that I try to limit the information I give to advertisement agencies. Edit: spelling
  - PostOnce 7y ago
    Microsoft sells ads, too. They're integrating them into Windows. Microsoft sells everything that Google sells and more. If Microsoft could have grown Bing as big as Google by doing everything Google did that you distrust, they absolutely would have done so. They would have done it with Windows Phone, too. And they still will, if they can, eventually. I'm not here to start an argument, just to suggest you re-examine your loyalties if you think Microsoft isn't going to screw you if it makes them $5.

fidz 7y ago

Ah, finally we can have 10x developer by developing for Windows 10 X

danlan 7y ago

This gives me hope that the 10GUI concept[1] might finally become a reality [1] - http://10gui.com/video/ http://10gui.com/video/

jdlyga 7y ago

I'd love to have a dual screen tablet like that. One of the reasons I like reading on an iPad is because you can tilt it horizontally and have two screens of paper.