28 ms·

Software made me loathe my car

• ex3ndr 7y ago
  You don't need car play it is a crap comparing to, for example, Teala's infotament.
• geoman123 7y ago
  buy a tesla lmao
• mmcclure 7y ago
  I was always pretty skeptical of CarPlay, honestly. Bluetooth audio + maps on a phone holder seemed like it was perfectly fine, and putting myself even further into the Apple ecosystem felt unnecessary. In short, I had always considered an auto's entertainment system/software to be something to ignore. Renting a car with CarPlay for a week (and a reasonably long "commute" during that time) completely changed my mind. Typically the only reason I ever used a built in car display up to this point was...to set up my phone in Bluetooth. Suddenly I had familiar applications that made that screen useful: Maps, Overcast (podcasts), Messages (read aloud, not displayed, of course), etc. A phone in a holder is, of course, totally acceptable and fine, but as I'm just starting to consider buying my first car in almost a decade I'm suddenly looking at CarPlay as a requirement. Other notes on this for those that are interested: A lot of cars with CarPlay also support Android Auto, and they always have a base system if you'd prefer not to use either. OP is talking about this from a luxury car perspective, but it's available in a really wide price range from entry to super-luxury.
  • ex3ndr 7y ago
    You don't need car play it is a crap comparing to, for example, Teala's infotament.
    • mmcclure 7y ago
      I actually couldn't disagree more, I deeply dislike Tesla's infotainment center. It's a much larger version of "traditional" manufacturer's displays with more functionality that I want shoved into it. I'd much prefer that display be an extension of my personal device. I don't want a new infotainment ecosystem with the manufacturer's choices baked in, I want the an extension of the one I'm going to keep using when I get out of the car, replete with my personal preferences for things like map applications, music, etc.
      • fps 7y ago
        yeah, I've used Tesla's software, it's garbage compared to android auto.
        • myko 7y ago
          i prefer my wife's Android Auto ('18 Nissan Rogue) to my '18 Model S :(
          • singingboyo 7y ago
            Huh, someone else with an '18 rogue. Does your wife's have an issue where once in a while it refuses to go into AA, and you have to hard-reboot the infotainment system? Mine does this thing where AA icon shows up, touching it does does the click animation, but doesn't actually launch AA. That's my only real complaint with the system, actually. Once in a while it just really doesn't want to launch AA. Once I'm in though... works great. (Okay, maybe the steering wheel could use a play/pause button, but that's minor)
            • myko 7y ago
              Definitely has a similar issue now and then.
        • ex3ndr 7y ago
          AA is a different beast than CarPlay.
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • o-__-o 7y ago
      good luck figuring out how to turn on your a/c without looking. I loved my old Ford Fusion because it was a touch interface but with raised and lowered plastic so you knew what you were pressing. https://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2015/11/2015-ford-fusion-energi-titanium-sedan-temp-control.png https://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2015/11/2015-ford... the newer fusions replaced controls with actual buttons which looks cheaper and doesn't make it any easier to figure out without looking. probably due to increased failures or simply cost savings
      • natch 7y ago
        It comes on automatically when needed but thanks.
        • kalleboo 7y ago
          Cool, so it has an IR camera to sense my body temperature?
      • kwhitefoot 7y ago
        You can use the menu button and scroll wheel on the steering wheel and see the response in the dashboard.
  • wcunning 7y ago
    I've been waffling on this, but my biggest concern about the center stack display is that it's far away from looking at the road. I've been using a suction cup RAM mount on the windshield for years with Waze up constantly on my phone, podcasts playing to the bluetooth or wired connection, and most importantly, I have to look slightly to the right to see the directions, not down and far away. Even then, it's refocusing on something close instead of staying with my eye focus on the middle distance. Someday I hope to switch to a HUD, but my 2010 Mazda Miata does not leave a lot of dash room to mount such a thing aftermarket.
    • nodefortytwo 7y ago
      I agree, I have Android Auto in my 2019 VW Tiguan. Its awesome but its very easy to spend more time than you think picking a playlist from spotify etc. With your phone you know not to touch it when driving but the center console feels acceptable. I had one close call where the car's auto breaking saved me from hitting a car that decided to turn without indicating. now I treat my centre console almost like my phone, I will use the console stopped at lights but not my phone.
      • alexktz 7y ago
        glad to hear you've modified your driving habits! i use voice control and steering wheel buttons only whilst driving, works well enough!
      • maccard 7y ago
        Does your VW have a microphone button? My 2017 golf does, and it works reasonably well with Google assistant.
    • csours 7y ago
      To me, the size of display outweighs location by far. Also the fact that I don't have to worry about a suction cup or magnet or whatever letting go while I'm driving; also I don't have to glue anything to my dash. To be clear, I hardly touch the infotainment screen while in motion. I can do almost everything I need to by voice, the only touch command is to choose an option from a list. It would be nice to have a HUD projected on the windshield, but I don't find it distracting to look at the Infotainment screen.
  • js2 7y ago
    Really can depend on the car too. I mostly love CarPlay in my Mazda[1]. My wife hates it in her Chevy Volt[2]. [1] Apple gives the car manufacturer the ability to truncate the length of scrollable lists while the car is in motion, which Mazda does. Nothing like only being able to see the first 15 items in a list of podcasts, or artists, or songs. I hate this. But otherwise the implementation is great, especially the integration between the car's physical controls and CarPlay. There's a steering wheel button to bring up Siri. There's direct physical button access to Maps, Now Playing, and the home screen. It would be nice if Apple allowed me to set Google Maps as the default mapping app, but Apple maps has become good enough most of the time. Aside, my 2016 CX-9 came w/o CarPlay. Mazda made it available as a DIY'able retrofit last year. The parts were a couple hundred dollars and it took a couple hours to retrofit. [2] Once the entire entertainment system froze up and it didn't fix itself till like the next day. I've been meaning to check if there's an update from Chevy.
    • wcunning 7y ago
      I'm an Android user, but have been considering switching to Apple, and it turns out that you can make GMaps or Waze the default mapping app for CarPlay. I was just reading about it as part of this thread. https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/24/how-to-use-waze-on-carplay/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/24/how-to-use-waze-on-carplay/
      • modeless 7y ago
        That's just putting a shortcut on the screen. It doesn't change any other defaults. Siri will still only open Apple Maps. Same with Calendar, iMessage, Contacts, etc.
        • lparry 7y ago
          “Give me directions to foo” - gives directions to foo in apple maps “Give me directions to foo using Waze” - gives directions to do using Waze This might be new, but it definitely works on the iOS 13 beta, although I’m pretty sure it worked on iOS 12. It would still be nicer if we could just set default apps
  • bena 7y ago
    I think most cars with CarPlay support Android Auto because most systems are essentially Android tablets. And that's one thing I have noticed, Android pretty much owns the industrial market. Every touchscreen device you see in the wild is basically an Android device. Those payment kiosk things in restaurants, CarPlay, etc.
    • ofibrvev 7y ago
      Well there’s a good reason for this: In this day and age it’s pretty much the ideal option. In fact I think android makes a horrible phone OS (not because it has no good features) but I’ve never had an android phone that didn’t become a battery sucking and unmanageable nightmare. And are high quality audio APIs available (I gave up caring a few years ago) AFAIC, Android is best suited as an industrial OS. Before android it was Windows CE, which was even bigger garbage than Android, and of course now it is dead. Alternatives are things like custom rolled Linux (and really why?) and RTOS/GUI platforms like vxworks, qnx.. they have their place. 90% of shit can just use stock android and whatever mods you need.
      • joezydeco 7y ago
        Linux serves as the hardware abstraction layer for Android. You’re going to need a “custom rolled” kernel for whatever platform you decide to launch in the car.
      • bena 7y ago
        Yeah, I was just making the observation. It does make sense, it's pretty customizable and a lot of the legwork is done for you.
      • 0x38B 7y ago
        I love Android as a mobile OS on my Pixel 2; especially with apps like MiXplorer (fully featured file manager). I can't count the number of times being able to plug in a flash drive and copy files to it has saved me. Subjectively, running Android 10 on a Pixel 2, battery life has never been better, and apps running in the background sucking up my battery hasn't been a problem. I've used the ubiquitous cheap Huawei and Xiaomi phones, and while they get the job done, the experience isn't nearly as good, as you have to deal with their UI and clutter. Unfortunate.
  • guan 7y ago
    Did the car you rented have a Play/Pause button on the steering wheel? That’s what I am missing the most: being able to quickly pause (and later resume) whatever I’m listening to through CarPlay because I need to pay attention to something that’s happening inside or outside the car. Reading the CarPlay documentation, it seems that it supports such a button, but it’s hard to find a list of cars that have one.
    • mmcclure 7y ago
      I believe the steering wheel had some basic media controls, but honestly I didn't end up using them very much. I found myself using Siri more than usual so I wouldn't need to spend too much time looking at buttons to figure out what they did, but I think I could get used to more buttons if it was my own vehicle and not a short term rental.
    • MBCook 7y ago
      So on my Mom’s recent Honda we’ve (accidentally) discovered that pressing the volume knob like you would to turn off an old radio plays/pauses what you’re listening to. Give that a try on any car you look at, you may find it works.
      • guan 7y ago
        Thanks; I’ll double-check but I think pushing the volume button turns the whole infotainment system off. Which does pause whatever’s playing, but also turns off navigation or whatever else I had on the CarPlay screen.
    • photojosh 7y ago
      Yes, this is one of my pet peeves too. The steering wheel has volume controls with press-to-mute, then right next to them are forward and back controls... a press on that control would be perfect for play/pause, but alas— no.
      • DavidAdams 7y ago
        My volvo's big central volume control has a large play/pause button in the middle and it works to pause anything that Carplay is playing. There's also a play/pause control on the steering wheel. Overall, my 2016 Volvo does a pretty good job with Carplay integration, though it also has a bunch of native software that mostly sucks in comparison, such as a voice control that I've never been able to use.
  • jsty 7y ago
    Also being able to control everything via Siri with actually competent speech recognition is a godsend compared to the several minutes of shouting in various accents that most in-built voice control systems require. The need for internet access is slightly irritating however.
    • josteink 7y ago
      You mean Siri is actually usable while driving? Is there a “trick” to this? I’ve yet to have it work a single time, and have just given up, after (in your own words) shouting at the car.
      • cstejerean 7y ago
        In my experience Siri over CarPlay is significantly more reliable (in that it understands me better over road noise) than Siri over Bluetooth audio (in both cases using the mic/speakers built into the car). FWIW phone calls also sound clearer when plugged in via USB. I’m guessing it’s because of poor audio quality for voice over Bluetooth in at least the cars I tried.
      • magoon 7y ago
        Hold the home button briefly (lower-left corner) for Siri on CarPlay. It’s actually fantastic.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • ryanmcbride 7y ago
    Really the only issue I have with carplay is 1. That I can't tell siri to play things on spotify, etc, although apparently siri support for spotify is coming. I'm on the iOS 13.1 beta but it's still not there 2. Carplay limits the listing of bands/albums/songs in the menu. I get that they don't want me visually scrolling through hundreds of albums while I'm driving, but since there's no carplay search, and I can't (yet) control spotify with siri, this means to play the music I want I have to pick up my phone and select my music from there. Much less safe than if they just listed all my music on the screen. They list far more albums when the car is at a stop, but it's still not all of it. Scrolling through my artists gets me to about G before it stops listing. Siri support for spotify really can't come soon enough for me.
    • clay_the_ripper 7y ago
      I think Spotify needs to implement Siri support so I’m not surprised that it doesn’t work on the beta. I’m also excited for this integration because I loathe Apple Music. Spotify is so much better. It’s annoying that Spotify doesn’t work as wel natively. If Apple Music was just a Spotify clone, I’d happily switch to them just for the first party support, but they insist on making it different. Spotify’s interface and music organization is just so much better.
      • ryanmcbride 7y ago
        Yeah, after the latest beta release if I ask siri to play on spotify she says "Spotify hasn't set up playing from siri yet" or something along those lines. I'm gonna be a happy camper when it starts working.
    • js2 7y ago
      The truncated lists are imposed by the car manufacturer, not Apple. I agree it's very annoying. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20833791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20833791
      • tass 7y ago
        Apple provide the API, so this is just the car manufacturer doing "the right thing". I think the wording may some "certain cars" enforce it because after-market head units may not be connected up to the speedometer and therefore have no way of including this information.
  • eisa01 7y ago
    I find Carplay dangerous for my use case: As the interface follows what’s happening on the phone, you often lose the maps and directions as the guy controlling CarPlay need to check his messages I have no idea how they’ve managed to design it like this, it’s like they only think single driver commuters would use it
    • eunoia 7y ago
      This behavior is changing with iOS 13.
    • wlesieutre 7y ago
      In iOS 13 they're conceding that this isn't how it's always used - a passenger might hook their phone to CarPlay, or the driver might hand their phone off for someone else to use. That's releasing early next month. Probably a gold master build at the event on 9/10, with wide release following after that.
      • melvinmt 7y ago
        Good, that's one of my biggest pet peeves for CarPlay. I'm also not a fan of Siri, would love to keep it disabled as I normally do, but CarPlay doesn't even start without it :/
    • bradknowles 7y ago
      I never thought that anyone other than the driver would want to connect their phone to the head unit in the car, regardless of how many other people might or might not also be in the car. On further reflection, I think it's still overall not a good idea. If the driver wants to change the music being played, or the volume, or whatever, and there is a passenger in the car with them, then I would think it would be okay for the driver to have the passenger do that on their behalf. And that might affect the display. But I guess I can wait to see if iOS 13 can change my mind.
      • cbsks 7y ago
        Anecdote: I have only used CarPlay in rental cars, and every time I start driving while my wife connects her phone and gets directions and music going. It’s annoying that the map disappears when she checks her messages.
  • ghaff 7y ago
    Last year I got a rental with CarPlay. It was the first time I had a system in a rental that didn’t seem more intent on downloading my contacts than on displaying nav info or playing music.
    • cptskippy 7y ago
      The first and last thing I do in every rental car I'm in is delete the stored contacts. You're all welcome.
      • dreamcompiler 7y ago
        Same here, but it's often damnably (maybe even purposefully) difficult to figure out how to do it.
    • climb_stealth 7y ago
      It's funny you say that, because last time I had a rental with Android Auto it would not let me even start it without allowing access to my contacts and other details. I ended up not using it because of that. The normal car bluetooth systems on the other hand don't mind if you don't give them access to things, and you can restrict it to music and calls only.
      • williamchangnpu 7y ago
        Maybe they just want to facilitate you by letting you voice your contact and send message or call your friends by voice. I don't have a car with Android Auto, can you deny the permission?
        • fullstop 7y ago
          I use LineageOS which has something called PrivacyGuard. I can give the app permission to access my contacts but then deny it at the PrivacyGuard level. I'm pretty sure that it just returns an empty contact list in this case.
  • underwater 7y ago
    As a counterpoint, my VW in-car navigation integrates with the second screen, so I get glanceable navigation behind the steering wheel. And, in Australia, it's very easy to lose mobile reception. Having usable maps on device is a must.
    • a-wu 7y ago
      In iOS 13, manufacturers will be able to integrate the second screen with CarPlay. Whether or not they will is too be seen.
    • maccard 7y ago
      That feature is my least favourite part of Android Auto - using it on the main display hides the navigation behind the steering wheel. I really hope this can be fixed.
    • arethuza 7y ago
      That's the main reason I still use built-in navigation rather than from my phone.
  • mcguire 7y ago
    I really liked Android Auto, but I think a recent update has screwed it up, so that any audio app frequently switches to Amazon Music. (https://support.google.com/androidauto/thread/8646291?hl=en https://support.google.com/androidauto/thread/8646291?hl=en)
    • MikeTaylor 7y ago
      Add to the LOOOONG list of "I really liked X but a recent update has screwed it up". It's amazing how often this happens.
    • brewdad 7y ago
      This was happening to me (and many others). I disabled notifications in the Amazon Music app and the switching has stopped. I still get an occasional dropout where the song gets really quiet for a few seconds but my Spotify app keeps running and no longer switches to Amazon Music randomly.
  • ummonk 7y ago
    You can always add a CarPlay compatible aftermarket infotainment panel.
    • cyxxon 7y ago
      But then you lose the ability to control various parts of your car, because these are often controlled through the entertainment system...
  • dillonmckay 7y ago
    This morning I was searching github for carplay projects. There was one that could spoof an iPad and allow it to be used as the CarPlay display and interface from the iPhone.
    • jcurbo 7y ago
      Is it this one? https://github.com/b3ll/Ignition https://github.com/b3ll/Ignition
      • dillonmckay 7y ago
        Yes. :)
  • jammygit 7y ago
    I really just want my car to drive and to last a long time. Aren’t these screens almost entirely bad? In 10 years, screens in cars will be the new smoking, except that they kill other people, and the NYT will be full of editorials about how they snuck up on society and caused so many accidents - who could have known?
    • sizzle 7y ago
      I hope we have self driving cars in 10 years...
  • snaky 7y ago
    > CarPlay as a requirement Why don't you loose your requirement to just 2DIN space to install your favourite Car Play compatible gadget into?
    • puzzlingcaptcha 7y ago
      If you really want to you can even get it in 1DIN with a detachable screen such as Pioneer SPH-EVO82DAB-UNI / SPH-EVO62DAB-UNI For android DIY folks , another route is to build your own open source AndroidAuto receiver with e.g. http://headunit.viktorgino.me/ http://headunit.viktorgino.me/ + https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-official-7-touchscreen-case https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-official-7-touchs...
    • Yhippa 7y ago
      Because a lot of manufacturers put control of the car's settings in the stock head unit. You'd have to swap it out if you want to change a particular setting. What I'd be willing to compromise on is an external screen that will handle CarPlay or Android Auto. I can't seem to find one out there.
      • deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  • husuget 7y ago
    Why not just use CarPlay on your phone with the phone holder? Is it not exactly the same as a car with built in CarPlay? Atleast on android auto I noticed no difference between the App on my phone and connecting my phone to my car's Android Auto.
    • TylerE 7y ago
      The whole point of CarPlay is that it’s on the built in screen. Many states have laws now that prohibit operating any sort of handheld device while driving (and yes, a phone or even GPS unit in a mount still counts as handheld)
      • husuget 7y ago
        That's really dumb, phones now have 6"+ screens and are way more powerful than any head unit in a car... "Many states have laws now that prohibit operating any sort of handheld device while driving" I don't believe you, otherwise most uber drivers, food delivery drivers and taxi drivers would be getting pulled over by the police.
        • muro 7y ago
          https://www.germanautolabs.com/blog/mobile-phone-driving-bans-in-europe https://www.germanautolabs.com/blog/mobile-phone-driving-ban... Maybe not the authoritative source but interacting with a phone while driving is indeed illegal in all of Europe.
          • vsl 7y ago
            You are wrong, in the ad absurdum extrapolation in this thread that using a phone for navigation is illegal in “all of Europe”. You presumably meant EU, a part but not all of Europe, but that too is wrong. For example, the law in the Czech Republic, a member state of EU, states that it forbidden to hold a phone (or other handheld device), in hand or otherwise (e.g. between shoulder and ear) while driving (§ 125c / 1f) 1. z. č. 361/2000 Sb.). Handheld devices probably are illegal to use while driving in all of EU while being (hand)held, but absolutely not when mounted and used in the same manner as car’s builtin display. It may be the case in some country, but is not true generally.
  • jordanbeiber 7y ago
    I got a leaf about 6 mo ago and it has carplay/android auto. This makes the infotainment/nav stuff no car maker ever could be arsed to do proper, completely moot. It’s a requirement from now on! :) I keep saying that an EV with carplay has made me look at a car differently - it’s a chassis with a battery. Choose the size of both according to what fits, say, 99.9% of all trips. For someone who lives in a city and have a charger in the garage of course this is a luxury, but to me it just makes so much sense.
• anewguy9000 7y ago
  "i don't know what I'll replace it with" sums it up.
  • brassattax 7y ago
    I got to try out MySync/Android Auto in a Ford Everest. I like it, and it worked great most of the time, except every once in a while randomly it would crash and bring you to the entertainment system's home screen, and the only way to get it to relaunch was by unplugging USB and plugging it back in. Also one time, the audio would not switch over to Android Auto, so even though it was connected and the UI worked, the radio was coming through. This persisted until the next time I used the vehicle (there was no way to just "reboot" the entertainment system) I have not yet driven a vehicle where Bluetooth or USB to a phone works flawlessly.
    • anewguy9000 7y ago
      at least we didn't ditch our audio jacks until the technology matured. oh wait
  • mikl 7y ago
    Replacing it is about 8 months away, so I haven’t done much research yet. There’s no shortage of options, though.
    • avar 7y ago
      Have you considered not trying to find a car with good infotainment systems, but just replacing it? I have an earlier BMW (E61) and there's a custom-made Android integration for it that costs around $500, trivial when compared to the cost of a new vehicle. I haven't bought one because as seen in another comment here I expect less of the car software than you apparently do, but when I looked into it it seemed to work well for people that tried it.
• MBCook 7y ago
  I was just thinking about this in relation to CarPlay last night. I’m so happy to have an interface that 1) isn’t garbage and 2) actually improves throughout the life of my car. I also know that whatever car I go to, no matter how crappy the entertainment system is I get to use CarPlay and don’t have to worry about the OEM garbage. Slow? Ugly? Confusing? Who cares! I’ve outsourced the entertainment system to a software company with a clue, and I couldn’t be happier. My maps are real-time updated by Apple. I can listen to whatever new streaming app comes out next year and takes over the market. I have Siri for voice commands, not the awful thing built into my car. Sorry car makers, you screwed up for too long. Now everyone just wants to bypass you with CarPlay (or Android Auto).
  • PrettyPastry 7y ago
    Unless they start doing the same thing the article describes, charging a subscription for CarPlay. They literally added extra systems to disable it so they could charge rents.
    • persistent 7y ago
      And the system sucks and is unreliable, so people who pay the rent are regularly told they aren't entitled to use CarPlay.
    • LeoPanthera 7y ago
      Well that’s easy, I simply won’t buy a car where CarPlay is a subscription. The market will decide.
• baybal2 7y ago
  Man, buy a normal multimedia player for the 2DIN slot.
  • inerte 7y ago
    Or a portable bluetooth speaker, which is useful outside the car too :)
  • jdietrich 7y ago
    There is no 2DIN slot on the F30 3 Series.
    • baybal2 7y ago
      > There is no 2DIN slot on the F30 3 Series. It is such an expensive car, but comes without the most basic luxuries. What a disappointment.
• layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  Sounds like typical German software.
• andreygrehov 7y ago
  BMW 320d is not a fancy car by any means. You'd be better off getting a fully loaded Toyota/Honda/Acura rather than overpaying for BMW.
  • tom_ 7y ago
    This issue of how fancy a bmw 320d might be is dealt with in the second sentence.
    • andreygrehov 7y ago
      I read it. My point is that he overpays for the brand. The margin could have been spent on a more loaded, but less "fancy" brand.
      • deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      • mikl 7y ago
        I think BMW has something going for it with fit and finish, but I’d agree you’d get more bang for the buck with an Asian car.
  • andreygrehov 7y ago
    Holy cow you downvoters. Fancy BMW is 7 series. High taxes do not make cars fancier.
    • ryanlol 7y ago
      I drive one of those, have weird carplay trouble once a week or so. Pretty quick to solve with a reboot though. Luxury car software tends to be pretty terrible.
      • andreygrehov 7y ago
        It's a massive bummer that a luxury 7-series does not have good software, but it doesn't make the car less fancy. It has gorgeous interior, amazing fabrics, etc. The OP could simply acknowledge that BMW's software sucks. I'm pretty sure most brands have the same software installed on all of its models.
• bhauer 7y ago
  There's a flagged & dead comment in this thread that argues (in four snarky words) that a Tesla would be a better choice for a software-oriented car. Snark aside, it's a fair point. If software quality is important, of all current manufacturers, Tesla seems the best fit since their product is as much software as it is car.
  • supergeek 7y ago
    My biggest gripe with Tesla is their lack of carplay and android auto. They offer their own navigation software to automatically plan charging stops on long trips, but for most trips I just want Waze and their excellent traffic aware routing and speed trap notices.
    • cheald 7y ago
      FWIW, the Tesla nav is traffic-aware. I believe it's based on Google Maps.
    • Lendal 7y ago
      I've used both and I'm sorry but CarPlay is far inferior to Tesla's UI. In addition, Tesla's screen is the only interface to the car's critical functions. They're not gonna hand it over to CarPlay unless they were to provide a separate screen for the purpose.
      • mrpippy 7y ago
        They could put CarPlay on just part of the screen (this is what Volvo does)
      • modeless 7y ago
        Tesla's touch UI design is great, the screen is huge and responsive, and the maps are imperfect but tolerable. But phone integration is lacking (messages, music control) and voice controls are primitive. What I want is to replace the Tesla map window with a CarPlay/Android Auto window, and Tesla voice control with Siri/Google Assistant. The rest of the UI can stay.
• allenrb 7y ago
  My dad recently ditched his Audi Q7. Not for exactly the same reasons but because of endless electronic glitches and downright bizarre behavior. Now he’s got an EcoBoost F150 and loves it. Consumer-grade hardware & software is a wonderful demonstration of why aerospace and medical systems cost what they do.
  • xendipity 7y ago
    > Consumer-grade hardware & software is a wonderful demonstration of why aerospace and medical systems cost what they do. Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?
    • allenrb 7y ago
      Sure. I’m talking about the general category of “software which must work, else people will die”. The difference between working 99.9% of the time, vs working 100% of the time appears to be very expensive. Automakers and their suppliers could develop to the same standards but the software and associated hardware might well cost more than the rest of the vehicle. There’s no market for that.
    • boring_twenties 7y ago
      They're not allowed to unpredictably and inexplicably fail like consumer stuff, but they're also orders of magnitude more expensive.
      • saltcured 7y ago
        Even with that cost, you usually have to get device-specific training and sometimes certification to operate them. They also often have rigid operating procedures you are required to follow, with deviations possibly leading to fail-safe modes, audit, and/or recertification...
  • KingMachiavelli 7y ago
    How so? It seems consumer hardware & software (phones, bluetooth speakers) work much better than expensive, name brand cars. I think this extends to aerospace and medical equipment, the manufactures of these devices know their industry and their engineering but are 5-10 years behind in the implementation and polish of basic things like bluetooth. Medical devices especially are notorious for poor security; unsecured endpoints, outdated/unsupported OS versions (think MRI machine with 20 year lifespan running Windows XP Embededed).
• DevKoala 7y ago
  I was just talking to a friend about this. My main reason for not jumping on a Tesla is the lack of CarPlay. I would love it if automakers stuck to providing a great automobile platform and just implemented a standard computer interface for all devices to hook up. I don’t know when I will get a new car, but ditching CarPlay is not an option.
  • windsurfer 7y ago
    Are you aware that you can retrofit cars to support carplay and android auto?
    • stuart78 7y ago
      True, but system integration is a mixed bag when you do. When it is built in originally, you are assured it will work w/ steering wheel controls, etc. On the flipside, some manufacturers impose limitations on what you can do when driving, which is annoying, so after market might get around some of that?
    • Ninn 7y ago
      On vehicles in which you can change the infotainment yeah. But this doesnt really go well for the tesla. In addition, to my knowledge older Volkswagen AG vehicles are ripe for replacing the infotainment with a newer, carplay enabled system, but on newer models it seems that it is rather locked down and not as easy a solution as you suggest.
    • rootusrootus 7y ago
      Some cars you can. If they have a standard 1- or 2-DIN radio, or an adapter for same, then yeah you can retrofit a CarPlay-capable radio. But many newer cars have totally custom, integrated audio systems and retrofitting is either extremely expensive or impossible.
    • DevKoala 7y ago
      Yes, I have a Miata, which I modified for this purpose. I really like my CarPlay setup.
    • 7y ago
• Isamu 7y ago
  >CarPlay will be non-negotiable. I don’t want to have a separate computer system to manage in my car. I want to use the insanely powerful pocket computer I always have with me with my car’s audio system and display. I agree, but even CarPlay is not flawless. And when something weird happens, it's hard to decide if the flaw is on the phone side or on the car side, since it's not clear how much is the responsibility of the car display. But there are enough weird glitches when the phone is not plugged in at all.
  • saagarjha 7y ago
    CarPlay is almost entirely run by your phone.
    • MBCook 7y ago
      Yes, but you still see little things like graphical glitches or an occasional audio pop that sounds like some buffer didn’t get refilled in time. They’re rare but they happen.
  • pfranz 7y ago
    At least on the phone side there's some likelihood it'll get patched. You're also more likely to get a new phone before you get a new car, even if you drive a luxury car and lease it. My 2016 car has a bluetooth bug where it freezes the whole radio. I specifically avoided the higher end touchscreen model. The only way to reset the unit is to turn off the car (which can be problematic on the highway). I took it to the dealer and asked if there was a software update for the infotainment system and described my issue. They looked a bit confused at the idea of a software update.
  • jakobegger 7y ago
    Carplay has been a pretty buggy experience for me as well (in a Citroen). I'm not sure how much it's the fault of the car or the phone. - sometimes nothing happens when I plug in the phone - navigation instructions are sometimes barely audible even though the music is loud - Siri sometimes gets stuck It's nice when it works, but it still feels a lot like a beta. Siri voice recognition is really bad. The car's built in voice navigation is much better (eg. the car will offer the top 3 choices when it's not sure, and I can just say "2" when number two is correct. Siri on the other hand will almost always try to send me to places hundreds of kilometers away....
• disiplus 7y ago
  > the double-clutch transmission is smooth that car does not have a DCT
• notJim 7y ago
  > I used to love that car. It’s the first nice car I’ve owned (in Denmark, there was a 225% tax (VAT included) on cars last I bought one, so most people get the smallest, crappiest car that can work for their needs). Is this right? Apparently the base price for this car is around $60,000, so this person paid $195,000 ($60,000 + 2.25 * $60,000) for this car?
  • Apfel 7y ago
    It's a lease, I think. He mentions it in the article.
  • Areading314 7y ago
    I feel that having no desire to spend money on such obviously material objects is a big "easy mode" in my life. It sucks to see so many people fall for all the luxury marketing and then go into debt to finance it.
    • JTbane 7y ago
      This tbh. I see a car as an appliance to get from point A to point B. Sure some cars are sexy and go fast, but you can't push them to the limit on the street, you're not on a track.
      • avar 7y ago
        You may have missed the part where the author of the article lives a short drive from German autobahns, or perhaps you don't count driving in excess of 220 km/h as pushing the car to its limits.
    • marvin 7y ago
      Sucks? Absolutely not! Everyone who buys an expensive car has that much less disposable income, and won't be able to bid up the housing market to even more extreme heights than the combination of cheap credit and restricted zoning already causes. I hope they buy two.
  • Ninn 7y ago
• monksy 7y ago
  I read this in Jeremy Clarkson's voice and was much happier.
• gregimba 7y ago
  This is why I'm tempted to buy an older land cruiser and redo the interior instead of buying something new with a million buttons that will fail after 5 years.
  • boring_twenties 7y ago
    The thing is that a 30 year old LC will cost you about as much as many decent new cars.
• Lendal 7y ago
  I have a 2017 BMW X3 with every option. The Bluetooth integration is terrible. It did force me to move my music service to Spotify (which is the only music service BMW supports.) Turns out Spotify is awesome, but BMW's integration of it is awful. Sometimes I travel in complete silence in protest of my BMW's Bluetooth flakiness. I continue to use it because Sirius XM horrific sound quality is always there, whereas Bluetooth occasional does what it's supposed to. The BMW Connected app provides more frustration than value. I use it on occasion, when I've forgotten about how terrible it is. I loathe voice control systems of all kinds, doesn't matter how good they are. I hate both talking to computers and listening to computers "talk". The first thing I do when I get in a new car is turn off the voice. You can get map updates much cheaper from people hanging out in BMW user Internet forums who sell them for $50. If you're a computer person and can follow instructions you can save a lot of money on map updates.
  • midnightclubbed 7y ago
    The iDrive system integrates with Amazon Music too.
  • DenisM 7y ago
    So long as your car has an AUX port a $10 Bluetooth->AUX dongle will solve your problems - you can bypass the OEM bluetooth completely. It works wonders for me (similar model to B018WV3F50 on Amazon).
    • taurath 7y ago
      Why not just hook up directly to aux then?
      • gmueckl 7y ago
        With what? There'no more analog out on smartphones. Also, you're wearing out the plugs over time.
      • DenisM 7y ago
        My phone is in my pocket most of the time, I just press play in the dongle to resume music I played at home. Even when it’s hanging on a hook on the dashboard I don’t want to fuss with the wires.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• MidgetGourde 7y ago
  I have a 120d from 2008. No SatNav, nothing, just a CD player, a radio and a 6 speed manual gear box.
• ltbarcly3 7y ago
  So buy a new radio and have it installed... I agree that idrive is crap but you can replace it for $400
• geophile 7y ago
  I have similar but slightly different issues with my 2018 3-series BMW. For most things, I think the BMW apps are actually better than what you get from CarPlay. For example, the BMW GPS makes better use of screen real estate. (On the other hand, Apple seems to do a better job of accounting for traffic in route planning.) The one puzzling omission from the BMW software is support for podcasts. For that, CarPlay is the only usable solution. One major irritant is connecting and disconnecting. This is especially bad when there are multiple iPhones in the car. (I know, what are the odds, amirite?) I had my iPhone plugged in via USB, and playing music. My wife was using her iPhone, which the car decided to connect to CarPlay. And certain actions on her phone somehow confused the iDrive system to stop playing music and bring up her iPhone on the display. I wish that car manufacturers would either get it right, or turn the whole thing over to Apple. These intermediate solutions just suck.
  • ryanlol 7y ago
    >For example, the BMW GPS makes better use of screen real estate FWIW, with the G12 this cost like $30 on ebay to fix. (And $10 for the bmw ethernet ODB cable)
  • prepend 7y ago
    I have a 2018 3 as well. CarPlay is ok, but the maps only uses 2/3 of the screen. However it was a cool feature of “send to bmw nav.” I had the odd multi phone behavior so I bought a “usb condom” that blocks data and only allows power. I keep this plugged in for charging and pair only with wifi/Bluetooth. This stops for me the fighting of multiple phones taking over
• fps 7y ago
  Ran into this issue way back in 2005 when I bought my first modern-ish car (Subaru Legacy.) I'd always just replaced the radio with something decent and modern every few years in previous cars, but in this one the audio system was integrated into the HVAC controls and you couldn't replace it. So, no adding aux input jacks, nothing. I sold that car after 2 years and bought a car that had a standard double din head unit. I have a JVC head unit in my car now that does car play/android auto, exterior cameras, etc. I will never buy another car without an upgradable stereo. This usually means I'm shopping on the lower end of the market, but that's worth it to not be stuck with auto manufacturer's software.
• whalesalad 7y ago
  Carplay is definitely non-negotiable. Car companies are NOT in the business of building infotainment systems. They are in the business of building cars. A while back, to compete and differentiate themselves, they all started to build their own touch screen systems with their own custom interfaces. All of them sucked. Even the ones that were the best of their class still sucked. Not only that, every single interface was different. Going from car-to-car meant re-learning a new system. They all have limited resources to throw at this problem so everything is sub-par. It's like going to McDonalds for good coffee -- no, you go to a coffee shop if you want good coffee. McDonalds just provides coffee because they have to. Same is true for car manufacturers. Trusting the OEM is just a bad idea. It is better for everyone involved to give this responsibility to those who are good at it. Apple and Google both have huge ecosystems of accessories and application developers -- not to mention massive user bases. Apple and Google have entire teams dedicated to integrating with auto makers and ensuring that the experience is consistent across all vehicles. So why would you want to pay thousands of dollars more to get, for example, a navigation experience on your car that sucks balls? Instead you can plug in your smartphone – which some have arguably more computing power than a lot of commodity PC's sold in the last few years – and have a vastly superior experience.
  • youeseh 7y ago
    Too bad none of them differentiated themselves by not putting anything. I'd love to buy a luxury car that lets me hook up my iPad for all infotainment and GPS. Just give me a nice simple dock that looks good with the rest of the fit and finish.
    • whalesalad 7y ago
      That's also a killer idea. A lot of people do this in the aftermarket world, but it would be unreasonable to expect you to "BYOD" for basic infotainment purposes. There needs to be _soemthing_ there for the people who don't have devices, or just need to make a quick run to the store and don't want to grab their ipad and dock it etc...
      • 7y ago
• chadash 7y ago
  Buying a car with too many software bells and whistles is a good way to buy a car that will look old within just a few years. The software built by the car companies is almost never updated in a major way. I remember when built-in GPS was an option for $1-2k extra on a new car... Five years later and the built in GPS interface looks ancient, and isn't nearly as functional as just using your phone anyway. I'll take a phone mounted to the dashboard over built-in GPS any day. Every car company should provide some basics, like bluetooth connectivity, but aside from that, Android Auto and Apple Carplay are the ways to go. They get updated constantly and are made by companies with stakes in keeping them current. This way, I don't need to purchase a new car to get decent software.
  • m463 7y ago
    The tesla is the opposite of that. The older teslas have been continuously upgraded to the latest software. That said, there have been regressions in UI usability and some things that should have gotten attention haven't, such as USB audio. I should mention USB audio is interesting because it allows you to play uncompressed music in FLAC and Apple Lossless directly (bluetooth does not)
    • chadash 7y ago
      Tesla is almost the exception that proves the rule though.
    • whenchamenia 7y ago
      Someone please come back to this comment in 10 years.
  • oppositelock 7y ago
    I would go even farther - I don't want a screen in my car. I have enough of that in other devices. Give me a convenient place on the dashboard to attach a phone holder, and provide a nearby USB power port, and I'd be super happy. Focus on making the climate controls work great, and have great Bluetooth, and I'm all set.
• leetcrew 7y ago
  I don't know exactly who to blame, but the android auto experience in my 2017 vw is, in a word, infuriating. android auto deadlocks for the remainder of the drive 80% of the time I put it in reverse (I assume due to some resource contention with the backup camera?). this can only be fixed with a hard reset of the infotainment unit. of course, the unit has no manual reset. the only way I've found to fix it is to turn off the car, remove the keys from the ignition, and step outside the vehicle for about five minutes. it's great fun on road trips.
• Havoc 7y ago
  I think OP underestimates how much variation is out there in terms of phones and connectivity. And how badly they time travel. That's a car developed in 2014. Android audio launched in 2015.
• KingMachiavelli 7y ago
  If I was going to buy a new-new car, the first thing I would check at the dealership is if the media/climate controls are reasonable (either physical buttons or 'good' touch screen) and if the bluetooth/phone connection is relaiable. If I found any issues, I'd just go to the next car brand. If none work, then I'll continue buying late 2000s cars and using Bluetooth to FM transciever. Considering that late 2000s cars certainly do all the car things, there is little poing in getting a newer car until the auto industury figures out how to release a 2019 car with at least 2018 hardware and decent software.
• diziet 7y ago
  When I read the comments of how people are happy with their 2003 model car X, or they drive an old but great manual 1997 model car Y, I get really confused. Safety systems in cars continue to improve, from more and better airbags, to crumple zones, automatic collision braking, pedestrian detection braking, intelligent headlights that don't blind oncoming traffic, seatbelts that pre-tension, better traction control, better brakes, blind spot monitoring, backup cameras, etc. A 2020 model car will have more of these features than an older car. It is more likely to keep you and others safe, including pedestrians safe. MPG keeps getting better -- the newer cars are generally nicer overall.
  • whalesalad 7y ago
    I'm not sure why you are confused. Do you expect people to jump out and just buy a new car every single year? Some people do this, by way of leasing. They upgrade all the time. For others, buying a car is a substantial investment and not necessarily something you want to (or are even capable of) jumping out of just for new safety technology. Also newer does not mean better. I have an old 2000 Jeep Cherokee that will probably last an eternity with its stout 4.0L engine. It's currently got 253k miles and is one of the most comfortable and enjoyable cars I have ever driven. I also have a modern 2016 Ford Mustang. I can appreciate both vehicles for what they are, but I wouldn't say one is better than the other purely based on age. In fact, the older one is easier to maintain and parts are far cheaper.
    • chrismatheson 7y ago
      I think the safety features are the big thing. Most 2 year old cars now come with active braking and a slew of other safety features. And / year old cars are already massively cheaper than brand new. Keep buying and selling within the 2-5 year zone and you can have the best safety tech for a fraction of the new / lease price
      • dwd 7y ago
        I have children learning to drive. Much happier for them to be in the wife's 2018 model with active breaking, lane keeping, blindspot alerts and headlights that are 3x more effective than my 2008 car.
• swamp40 7y ago
  50 complaints, all audio related. Doesn't upgrade to a better stereo.
  • bradlys 7y ago
    Upgrading the head units in modern BMWs is, practically speaking, impossible. Almost all manufacturers have moved away from standard single or double DIN units.
  • wvenable 7y ago
    That's not always possible. Even in my car, with a standard interface, the head unit controls all the car setup options so if you remove it then you can't use that functionality anymore.
• jxdxbx 7y ago
  CarPlay is completely excellent and I bet Android Auto is also good.
• huhtenberg 7y ago
  I still have a photo somewhere of the X6 nav system showing "-1 km" to destination. It did look beautiful though, in that glorious custom font from Dalton Maag.
• ChuckMcM 7y ago
  I really resonate with this. It feels like everyone in the "value chain" between you and your product is trying to interpose some software based monthly recurring revenue stream to boost their margins. The recent story about how Cisco routers would 'phone home' to see if your license for the software was still current and not operate if it wasn't struck me as another absurd example of how lame this can be. What always astonishes me is that a company like BMW which makes an excellent car can convince itself that it can maintain and operate a software service infrastructure. Just get a few web designers and some coders to whip up an app. Reality is complicated, and what others make look "easy" (Amazon, Google, Azure) has a lot of layers you can't easily "outsource." Even back in the 90's Sun was fretting over the fact that if you just bought one copy of Solaris with your computer and never upgraded, all those engineers sitting around would just consume cash waiting to do something. Free software has whacked the software business model even further afield.
• Maro 7y ago
  I have a similar BMW. In my opinion, the sane way to approach cars is to accept that it's an excellent mechanical machine with shit software. Even if they were to do an awesome job, which they won't, over the years the software/screen will get outdated. The solution is to minimize the software use, and enjoy the car as a mechanical machine, eg. buy the torque-y 30d not the 20d. Eg. I know the map is shit, so I just don't think about it, I have a $2 thing and I mount my phone and that's it. My phone will always have a nicer screen, better software, better 4G, it will always be configured better for me (I get a new phone every year). On the car, I just use the radio, the bluetooth for Spotify (sometimes it doesn't work), and that's it. Things like "CarPlay" or whatever, voice commands, it's better not to think about it and just enjoy the ride. The only tech upgrade I'd take on a new car is the surround camera because I'm a shitty parker, but that's it.
  • mikl 7y ago
    To each their own, of course, but I think a car with CarPlay will age much better. The way CarPlay works is that your phone controls most of it, so you’ll be able to take advantage of the yearly iOS updates without getting a new car. Basically a free yearly update for the infotainment system, at least for a good long while. There’ll probably come a time where Apple phases out support for really old CarPlay devices, but to my knowledge it hasn’t happened yet, and Apple has strong incentives to keep it that way (since they want to give you incentive to upgrade your iPhone, even if you have an old car).
  • Phillipharryt 7y ago
    I'm in agreement but I've not seen this sentiment shared much. A car is a seperate piece of technology to my phone and I've never felt the need to mix the features of them. Call me a luddite but I use the car to drive and that's it. I don't need any software integrations for the way I use it.
    • singingboyo 7y ago
      I sort of agree, but also can't. A car should be good at driving, that's its job. It does something very different from a phone. However, we rarely use cars just to drive. We use them to get places. Especially in cities, that process can be boring. Phones are very good at offering music, news, and other things that we generally use to fill boredom. I want that option available when I've been in mostly stopped traffic for the last 15+ minutes. Can it be done without AA/CarPlay? Sure. But it's much more convenient to have the full integration.
• dpedu 7y ago
  I've been thinking about this problem recently. I drive a 2010 and can handily afford a new vehicle, so I've been somewhat attuned to the good and bad features of new vehicles. 10 years is a long time in the auto industry, especially when it comes to cars and their interior tech. Having watched my friends with newer cars struggle to get them to work properly has really put me off shopping for a new one, since these systems generally aren't optional anymore - there's no longer a 'base model' with a plain stereo and dash items. Anyway, because of this I've been keeping my eyes out for cars that are still in new production today, but are using an old design. These are, in my opinion, better because their systems date from before a time where problems like those mentioned in the OP didn't exist, yet the car is brand new. There's not many out there, any it seems limited to low volume - read: pricey - models. One example is the Nissan 370z.
• dreamcompiler 7y ago
  Software in cars (with the possible exception of Tesla's) has always been terrible compared to that of smartphones. BMW has long had the reputation of worst-of-the-worst in this regard. Which is why I insist my phone have a 1/8" jack as well as my car: It's the only reliable way of connecting the two. Bluetooth never works and USB always wants to download my contacts when all I want is for my music to play.
• jimmaswell 7y ago
  All I need is a dashboard phone mount and an FM transmitter, preferably transmitting to a radio with physical controls. Touch screen systems in cars have always been terrible every time I've used one and bluetooth is always a nightmare in general. I value being able to physically control what goes where with aux cables instead of the car suddenly blaring a youtube video because the bluetooth synced itself mid-drive or something else typical of bluetooth systems. Good thing 90s cars with good physical radios are cheap, plentiful, and reliable.
  • boring_twenties 7y ago
    FM transmitter, seriously? Those sound like absolute shit, aux cable is a thousand times better.
    • jimmaswell 7y ago
      They're usually fine for me, but a radio with a real aux input would be less hacky.
• mstade 7y ago
  I've been looking at buying a car recently, after having just rented cars and using carpools for the past decade or so. I've been looking at maybe getting a Volvo C70 – I like the idea of a hard top convertible, and also crucially it's old enough (2013) to have actual dials instead of crappy touch screens while still being new enough to be comfortable. I do like CarPlay, it'd be nice if I could have both, but if it comes down to it I'll take the dials and buttons over a touch screen any day.
• as300 7y ago
  This is kind of off-topic, but given there's a pretty huge VAT on foreign cars, and this guy lives in Denmark, why didn't he just go to Germany to buy his car, and presumably not have to pay the VAT?
  • l4u532 7y ago
    first thing I thought of when I lived in Denmark, but That loophole is closed. Cars bought in a foreign country need to be taxed if used permanently in Denmark. Otherwise ginormous fines.
    • ryanlol 7y ago
      Tends to not apply to rich people, as you’ll just keep your nice summer car parked across the border 6 months of the year.
  • mikl 7y ago
    If only it was that easy. You have to pay the special car tax (and VAT on top of it) to get Danish license plates. And you’re not allowed to have a car on foreign plates if you live in Denmark. However, I moved away from Denmark before I bought this car (that was actually part of the reason I got it, a BMW costs less in Switzerland than a humble Skoda would in Denmark).
• patrickpkt 7y ago
  I have a 2014 BMW i3, and while I don't have the problems you do, Mikkel, I have missed Carplay now that I've used it. I've been tempted by https://unique-ad.co.uk/product-category/bmw-carplay-kits/ https://unique-ad.co.uk/product-category/bmw-carplay-kits/, which seems like it would address all your issues, assuming the kit lives up to its promise.
  • mikl 7y ago
    Hmm, that does look promising, might be worth investigating.
• ryanianian 7y ago
  Similar experience but buying a new car is very heavy-handed. I have a car from 2009 that I otherwise love but it only had a very basic stereo (only MP3 CDs no maps etc). I was delighted to learn there are a bunch of after-market stereo systems you can buy that have CarPlay/Android Auto integrated. I got the "budget" pick from thewirecutter[1] and love it. I had a shop install it, and I got a backup camera installed at the same time that integrates perfectly with the system. Total cost for everything including equipment and installation labor was under $500. Best money I've spent in a while. (I wish I'd got the steering-wheel buttons too that for an extra $50 but I didn't even know it was an option at the time.) [1]: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-car-stereos-with-apple-carplay-and-android-auto/ https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-car-stereos-with-appl...
  • mikl 7y ago
    I was likely going to replace it at the end of the lease in any case, but I might have replaced it with another BMW if their software wasn’t so awful.
• aenonsun 7y ago
  Instead of Carplay or Android Auto, I find the phone mount more useful.
• Railsify 7y ago
  I read the entire article and the fact that sticks with me is 225% VAT, is that figure correct?
  • abricot 7y ago
    No. Tax is 225% including vat. VAT in Denmark is "only" 25%
  • mikl 7y ago
    No, it’s a special 180% car tax, plus 25% VAT on top - 1.8*1.25 = 2.25. Yes, you have to pay VAT on the tax, too. It’s bananas. They did reduce it slightly a few years ago, I think it’s more like 180% in total now.
• pbreit 7y ago
  Making good software is a LOT harder than many realize.
• nimbius 7y ago
  I am a professional engine mechanic by trade, however during my apprenticeship I worked at a luxury dealership so these complains are painfully familiar to me. Back in the day, it was the BMW I-Drive controller or the center console navigation ring that people hated. Do you want to know how you can tell if someone can actually afford a luxury car? Its not whether they get good financing, or whether they get options, its whether or not its serviced. >but I’m equally sure I’d be charged some outrageous fee for that “service”. You see, actual luxury vehicle owners do not question the price at all. They dont see anything other than the signature box on the invoice. You could for example as I have, charge $190 just to replace the light in the glovebox, and they wouldnt think twice about that amount of money. I was once faced with a BMW owner looking at seven thousand dollars to replace their electronic air-ride suspension, and the hardest decision they had to make was whether they should buy another BMW while this one was being serviced. Luxury owners rarely see opulence as anything more than a disposable commodity. If they dont like the apps, or if they dont like the stereo, they just buy a different car. A salesman once told me of a woman who traded her 8 month old Porsche in for a BMW because she didnt like the little song the car played when it started up.
  • lacampbell 7y ago
    What percentage of luxury car owners do you think are living beyond their means, versus your actual luxury vehicle owners? I often wonder about the people who drive late model luxury cars, on the rare occasions I see them in my town. Are they killing it? Or did they buy it on finance to compete with the Jonses?
    • projektfu 7y ago
      All of the luxury car owners near me are beyond their means, because if they lived here because they’re frugal, they wouldn’t own the car.
      • lacampbell 7y ago
        My "this is what I'd do if I was super rich" fantasy isn't a ferrari or a rolls royce. It's having a driver. I find car ownership and driving stressful.
• soyiuz 7y ago
  I'd love a car that has analog controls for several basic functions and a secure place to attach my phone, in line of my vision.
• smacktoward 7y ago
  > The built-in GPS is next to useless, since the maps are from 2015. In theory, I could purchase a map update from BMW, which I’ve tried several times. But the site (BMW ConnectedDrive) that sells map upgrade is a mess. All the times I’ve tried, I’ve run in to one error or another. That site is all around awful. Completely indecipherable error messages, shoddy layout and design work, you name it. I'm feeling this one. I drive a 2015 Subaru. Overall it's a great car, but the infotainment system is just dire, slow and clunky and painful to use. Of course the maps in the built-in GPS are pretty out of date by now, too. And you can download new maps from a Subaru web site, but only if you're willing to shell out $200 (!) for the update -- which is just enough money to make me feel like I should put it towards a completely new head unit instead, which would solve a bunch of problems (including the maps) at once. But then aftermarket GPS head units that also support CarPlay/Android Auto cost $700 and up, so... Sigh.
  • ollien 7y ago
    I have a 2018 Subaru. It's still terrible. The built in infotainment system basically serves as an Android Auto launcher for me. The dumbest feature is that it insists on turning the radio on every single time I start the car, even if I've pressed in the volume button to mute it.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• lazyguy 7y ago
  After market car stereo. Never driven in a rental or borrowed car that had bluetooth that worked worth a damn. So I bought the cheapest car I could possibly fine, got the the most bottom base model that I could get. Then put in a Sony Stereo headset and separate amplifier that was small enough to fit into the glove compartment. Added a little 12 inch subwoofer to the rear hatch and upgraded the door speakers. I don't need a loud stereo. I just need one that was decent and wasn't a piece of shit. Spent about 400 dollars and got something that is a lot easier to use and more reliable then what you'd get out of of a 100,000 dollar car.
• NoblePublius 7y ago
  Buy a Tesla.
• 1ris 7y ago
  Recently I had a almost brand new Honda Civic rental car and a brand new Android phone. When I wanted to charge my phone on the usb-port, I was ask if i wanted to activate android auto. I said yes. The phone said I had to engage the paring break to continue. The parking break was engaged. I never got beyond that. I suspect none of parties involved (Honda, Google, Nokia) ever tested even the most basic setup. (Yes, i tried again, multiple times, engaging and disengaing the parking break, the break, turning both devices on and of again, to put the car into neutral), but gave up after about 10 Minutes. I used google maps with bluetooth audio. But actually, I use want a dash-board mount for my phone. Or maybe, just maybe a monitor in my dash board that connects to my phone. But i highly doubt car makes wont screw that up.
• jdfellow 7y ago
  My 2013 Audi has a rather poor non-touchscreen interface. It has Bluetooth pairing for phone calls but not for plain audio (music), which is really odd. It does have one of those very old large iPod connectors, and I've attached a Bluetooth adapter to that, which works well enough, except that it doesn't turn off when I turn off the car, and my phone can reconnect randomly for about half an hour. I have done some shopping and found an Android Auto-capable headunit that would replace the whole built-in thing, but it's something I haven't jumped on yet. I wonder how many other cars can have their headunit replaced with something CarPlay or Android Auto capable?
• smallstepforman 7y ago
  What annoys me is that I have a 2012 luxury model (pre carplay/android auto), the hardware can support it (since I got bluetooth, gps and ipod connectivity) but there is no option to do a software upgrade, not from the manufacturer. Imagine the goodwill if a 2012 model had a complimentory software update during my next scheduled service. The bastards wont even update GPS maps.
  • persistent 7y ago
    Not sure why you think BT and GPS are sufficient for Android Auto compatibility. AA and CarPlay require the ability to use your car's display as a peripheral.
    • smallstepforman 7y ago
      I got the option to play video from external device as Picture in Picture, so I'd say the inbuilt unit is quite capable of sharing the display and touch screen.
• waterside81 7y ago
  Damn this opened my eyes to how luxury tax works on cars in Denmark. According to https://skat.dk/skat.aspx?oid=2244599 https://skat.dk/skat.aspx?oid=2244599, there's a margin tax rate on these cars of "85% of the taxable value up to DKK 185,100 in 2017 and 150% of the rest.". Sweet jesus that's a lot.
  • mruts 7y ago
    Two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner.
  • mikl 7y ago
    And that’s after they reduced it recently. Before that, it was 180% on the whole value of the car, plus 25% VAT on top.
• deckar01 7y ago
  I had to hack Hyundai's website to keep my navigation and monitoring service. I bought it used 3 years old in 2016. At that point they had already removed the ability to purchase updated maps. Then this year I got an email saying the navigation and monitoring services would be unavailable for renewal. The renew UI was disabled, but I reverse engineered their API, crafted a request, and got a system error. To my surprise my subscription was renewed. There is no reason I can think of to discontinue these services other than to goad me into purchasing a new car.
• kemiller 7y ago
  This is an under-appreciated thing about Teslas: they are as competent at the software as a tech company, so this crap doesn’t happen. Your five year old vehicle is almost as good as a new one, hardware permitting.
• WalterBright 7y ago
  Car software is almost always poor. I'd prefer a car simply have a convenient holder for the phone, which has far better software on it (and is far cheaper than the car computers).
  • mikl 7y ago
    Yeah, I have a nice holder. But beyond annoying to have to play audio from the phone’s speakers rather than the car’s sound system. Also, CarPlay is feasible (and legal) to use while driving. Fiddling around with the comparatively tiny iPhone screen is both dangerous and annoying.
• gregkerzhner 7y ago
  I have a 2017 Tacoma and the Entune system is an aggravating, outdated mess. I love how it shows a generic album cover (of missy elliot from the early 2000s) whenever you play any type of hip hop song. The maps are terrible in general, but their one small redeeming quality is that they work offline. There have been a handful of times where this has been useful when driving out of reception.
  • post_break 7y ago
    Toyota was so stubborn on this. I like how they literally just added CarPlay support to the 2020 models.
    • ansible 7y ago
      I'd have liked to have Android Auto for my Prius, but overall it isn't too bad, because I have the super-basic version of Entune. It plays BT and USB audio files, and has dedicated buttons for voice command, call and hangup. The voice command thing I rarely use because it isn't very good. All I really want is a way to trigger Google Now from the car controls. My BT headset can do this, but there is apparently no way to do this with the car. Just frickin' open up a hands-free profile connection, and turn on the microphone! I plan on driving this car for another 15 years or so (or until they stop selling gasoline) but I'll upgrade my phone a few times in that interval. Let me just use the phone.
      • tasty_freeze 7y ago
        I have a 2012 Prius with Entune. The car is fine, but Entune is terrible. Besides having only a handful of apps that aren't updated, it takes a long time for bluetooth to detect that my phone is present (30-60 seconds), and every few months it loses its mind and I need to tell it to forget the bluetooth pairing and make it again. When the car was new (and the map fresh) I tried to use the gas station finder feature -- and it directed me to a stretch of road with nothing at all on it .. not even a former gas station. I have a 32GB thumb drive with my mp3 files on it; for some reason, 30 or so seconds after starting the car, it resumes playing the contents of that thumb drive even though I might have turned the audio off, or on radio, or on bluetooth. Their menu system for navigating through the 8000 songs I have is super inefficient. When I drive with google maps on my phone, the audio alerts are forcibly routed through bluetooth ... even if the audio is off in the car. To be fair, the bluetooth problems could be an android problem. It also strikes me as funny that the car has GPS built in but there are three dedicated buttons to set the hour/minute/second of the clock. All in all, a terrible experience. It seems like it is simply a checkbox feature that helps to sell the car but they don't actually care about.
• nikanj 7y ago
  Just drove around Ireland in a rental Renault last week. It refused to let through the audio from Google Maps navigation unless music was playing. And not just any music e.g. Spotify, it had to be an MP3 from the built-in Apple player. I had one album of songs loaded onto my phone. I listened to that god-forsaken thing for hours and hours each and every day, because navigating strange roads in a drive-on-the-left country is hard enough without trying to read the map at the same time. I would have given quite a bit of money for a simple 3.5mm aux in connector.
• post_break 7y ago
  I managed to get a free line from T-Mobile so I keep a phone plugged into my car 24x7. It is so nice to have it automatically go into car play or android auto every time I start my car. I even went so far as to retrofitting a car play touch screen and ecu into my 2014 from a 2016 so I could add it to my fiesta.
• usaphp 7y ago
  > No Apple CarPlay (or Android Auto) at all. Once I’d driven a car with CarPlay, you didn’t want to drive a car without it. First, you have a 2015 car, which means it was built in 2014, Apple Carplay was released in 2014. Secondly - I disagree about CarPlay being superior, I like the new BMW iDrive much more than carplay. Maps are better in newer bmw, and the voice recognition of addresses is amazing. Also apple carplay does not support the heads up display, which is a must for me now. > Not only do they charge you extra to use CarPlay. Even though you own a car with CarPlay-capable hardware Doesn't Tesla charge you extra for auto-pilot? Even tho your car has capable hardware already?
  • abtinf 7y ago
    Did you just compare a Bluetooth connection to a self-driving car?
  • mikl 7y ago
    In 2016, when I got it, there was pretty much no used/demo cars on the market with CarPlay, and I wasn’t willing to pay for a brand new one. Also, I hadn’t actually tried CarPlay then, and CarPlay has improved a lot since. Dunno about Tesla’s charges, I’ve never owned one.
• galfarragem 7y ago
  I think it all resumes to this: It's not feasable for any car brand to have a independent, competitive, updated and bug free car software. It will be a matter of time until we have only CarPlay and Android Auto probably with a skin (like we see in Android phones) for branding purposes.
  • mikl 7y ago
    That would be good by me. The car people go back to doing what they’re good at, and let the software people do their thing.
• atoav 7y ago
  I more and more grew to love simple solutions that just work, and do so in a predictable way — and lets face it: stuff fails, so having it fail in a predictable way is good too. Cables might sound oldfashioned but they tick these boxes for me. Just buy them in packs and throw broken ones out or repair them. If you get decent ones even that will be rare. Mechanical rotary switches to switch between multiple modes? Hell yeah. Actual potentiometers that end when you are at max for values that make sense? Sure way. Since the eighties a lot of specialized interfaces that should have been condensed down to perfection were instead defaced by membrane buttons and a single push encoder that is meant to do all the things. Nothing against encoders, they are cool for certain stuff — but even cooler is a fixed interface where everything is literally in your hands. That is why touch interfaces are even worse: ever tried to use one with your eyes closed? The thing is: good working solutions and well defined haptic interfaces pair incredible well with sturdy and wellwritten code. Electromechanical parts are just more expensive, and that is why they fell out of favour. On the other hand we literally live in times where anybody could build their own car radio if they just wanted..
• jbtule 7y ago
  I replaced the radio in my 2016 Toyota Prius V because the software was sooo bad. It was the only model in 2016 that didn't support hands free Siri, They pushed out a final update to etune 2.0 removing features as it moved into maintenance mode, and it crashed and rebooted on hands free calls. I bought my new radio from crutchfield.com, they did all the compatibility checking for me, suggested all the additional adapters and devices for best compatibility, and for $25 spliced all the wiring harnesses for me. I installed it myself, and have been very happy with the results. I now have wireless carplay, so handsfree works great, I can easily get directions/eta while driving, I can easily listen to podcasts, and as a bonus I get visual information on various car sensors, like which door is ajar, and the PSI of each tire. The most important feature is that it hasn't crashed once. The result has been better than I expected, there were somethings that weren't quite obvious, such as there not existing OEM adapters for the hands free mic and the gps receiver for my model of toyota. But ultimately, it wasn't hard to run the new mic and the new gps sensor that came with the radio out through the seams of the dash. The handsfree audio quality is way better with the new radio's mic. Everything else integrated with the OEM hardware of the car.
  • gegtik 7y ago
    Interesting, I hate the entune system on my 2015 Prius V. I was afraid something aftermarket wouldn't be able to pull things like the gas mileage, hook into the backup cam, etc. Is there a model of replacement I should be looking into?
• 6d6b73 7y ago
  I on the other hand, love that my 4Runner has a built-in crappy navigation system. I don't like the fact that it's crappy but I love that it's there whether I have my phone with me or not. Yes, it's not often that I don't have my phone with me but one time when I needed navigation, to get back home, and I dropped my phone and broke the screen it was a godsend.
• acd 7y ago
  Imagine a car infotainment system which is open source based. With open hardware, then you could upgrade it. The software and computer inside a car gets older much faster than the mechanical parts.
• dredmorbius 7y ago
  I have experience with a fully-analogue auto, with a radio and CD player, and a newer model with an in-dash display, "programmable" cabin climate controls, and Bluetooth connections. Being able to pair my Android tablet for listening to podcasts is neat. But an FM broadcast dongle had solved that problem for the earlier vehicle, as would an AUX IN port, though it lacks that. The earlier car had come with a pricey GPS option. My reasoning in rejecting that was that the hardware and software were likely obsolete on installation and would get no fresher. That's proved accurate, and a year later, I had my first experience of a long road trip with the Internet in my pocket. Pre-iPhone era, having maps and Google search was a game-changer, though could be distracting. An assessment I've maintained to the present. I still rely largely on my own navigation capabilities and mapreading skills. Paper rarely crashes, reboots, or experiences flat batteries. I read stories such as these with mild bemusement, until the thought registers that I'll likely be unable to find another vehicle as suited to actual transport as the one I own presently. Pity, that.
• mhdhn 7y ago
  sounds like every new car, crap
• avar 7y ago
  Am I the only one who wants less integration with normal phone functions while driving, not more? I use my Android phone with a mount and Google Maps for navigation, but it's a pretty horrible and distracting experience. Even though you're actively in driving mode you'll get all sorts of notifications / message popups you'd normally want, but I don't want them while driving. There needs to be some OS-level quieting of everything except the navigation and phone calls, you can't put the phone in airplane mode because you'd like real-time traffic updates. The least crappy way I've found of dealing with this is using an old android phone without a SIM card and nothing on it except Google Maps, then teather it to the main phone (with SIM) for network, put the main phone on silent and throw it in the glove compartment. But that also sucks since I'd still like music, podcasts & audio books. So now I need to sync those too to that phone, and it leaves out using the phone (as in, talking to people via voice) through the car speakers.
  • savrajsingh 7y ago
    iOS has “do not disturb while driving” mode for this scenario
    • drdaeman 7y ago
      Except that when the phone is unlocked (for e.g. maps) notifications still flicker as they happen, sometimes obstructing the top where Google Maps puts the street name and lane information.
      • avar 7y ago
        ...and I don't know about iOS, but I've had this happen at the very worst of times on Android. I've need to click on a dialog in Google Maps to accept a route change, and just then a pop-over dialog appeared that I accidentally clicked. Now the routing is backgrounded and you have some other app open.
• olyjohn 7y ago
  Apple Car Play and Android Auto are just going to be this exact same thing repeated. Once you have your CarPlay 1.0 car, the new FancyPhone 11 will come out and only support cars with CarPlay 2.0. Then you're right back where you started! This whole thing is dumb as hell. How about a standard like USB-C where you can pass thru keyboards, pointing devices and alt-mode video with one cable? It's a somewhat open standard, and would work with a number of phones RIGHT NOW with no stupid software tricks. Plus it charges your phone at the same time!! Like magic!!
  • neogodless 7y ago
    No thank you. Two counter-examples. While my 2015 Mazda does not officially support Android Auto, clever open-source programmers came up with a way to install it. I did that this spring. When Google updated Android Auto in the Play Store, the update came through without having to make any updates to the car. And, more interesting to me, the integration is, in my opinion, super sweet. When I'm using Google Maps, arrows are put up on my heads-up display. All the steering wheel audio controls work. The physical NAV and MUSIC buttons take me right to the correct tab in Android Auto, and the back button does what I expect it to.
• iamaelephant 7y ago
  ITT: lots of Americans who don't realise Apple devices are not ubiquitous everywhere.
• m0zg 7y ago
  One of the most annoying things about my BMW 535 is onboard electronics. The car is only 4 years old, but it already doesn't even work with bluetooth properly: map directions stop audio playback as they should, but then fail to actually come through the speakers. Next time I buy a car I will be extra anal about the entertainment system. For any kind of extended commute the ability to have directions _and_ audiobooks/music working properly at the same time is more critical to me than just about any other aspect of the car, excluding reliability and safety. And car manufacturers should at this point get on with the program and offer proper software updates. I didn't pay $70K for the car to deal with this bullshit.
• thefounder 7y ago
  I wonder if Tesla owners feel the same about carplay.
• whydoyoucare 7y ago
  The whole article seems childish and a pointless rant, to be honest! All software in cars that is not mission critical will take a long time to mature... calling a car crap because its website is non-functional... seriously? :-)
• rcurry 7y ago
  My favorite is the voice recognition system in my Toyota 4Runner. It seems there are no lengths it won’t go to to keep from just calling the person I want to speak with: Me: “Call Bob Smith.” Car: “Bob Smith ONLY has a home number, do you want me to call that?!?” Enters Mobile number for Bob... Me: “Call Bob Smith.” Car: “Bob Smith has TWO numbers! Which one should I call?” Deletes home number for Bob Smith... Me: “Call Bob Smith.” Car: “Bob Smith has no OTHER NUMBER, do you want to dial his mobile number?” It would be funny if it wasn’t so frustrating.
  • newsbinator 7y ago
    Erring on the side of not calling the wrong number. Somebody somewhere made a judgement call: we'd rather annoy people by double-asking them about almost every call, than accidentally dial and ring the wrong person or the wrong number for them. I think Apple/Siri gets this balance right.
• golemiprague 7y ago
  $15 bluetooth fm transmiter and a phone holder, that's all i need in my very old car with only a radio.
• wwarco 7y ago
  Wow destructed fucking driver
• tomc1985 7y ago
  Can you even buy a car without all this software crap anymore?
• millerm 7y ago
  Software is why I love my Tesla Model 3. Sure, there are improvements they can make with the infotainment system, but that is where they f’n rule! It just gets better. Over-the-air software updates are what have totally pushed them ahead. The car gets better over time with no trips to a service center, or having to buy a new car. My previous cars were stuck with whatever crappy interface and options. They could never provide me updates to fix their awful software and interfaces.
• wwarco 7y ago
  Sorry earlier commented.. I'm scared shitless of drivers.... Especially along freeway/highways/motorways.... I'm the asshole that files reports you to the police for endangering my life, my children and my existence. My friend went down a highway in Canada at 222mph. I literally took him outside and punched him in the face. I apologised and told him his mum would be the next up in line.
• lykahb 7y ago
  What about using a car without a phone? Is it such poor experience that a phone with crappy pairing software is better than that?
• zelon88 7y ago
  I can't wait for this guy to get a car like an Acura or Infinity with software he can tolerate because my guess is 500m into owning it he's going to realize all the BMW-ness he took for granted.
• taf2 7y ago
  Is it okay to mention... Tesla and how the experience of the software in a Tesla is what makes it such a magically wonderful experience as compared to any other car ever... among other things it upgrades automatically... so I can remember when my wife and I were driving in our 2014 tesla and we were like that’s weird there is no button for the passengers to adjust the volume... a week or two later after an update the button we were missing appeared... or being able to play fart games and now chess with my daughter while waiting to pick up my other daughter... delightful...
  • nexuist 7y ago
    This is because Tesla is a classic Silicon Valley tech company masquerading as a car manufacturer while the actual car manufacturers are trying to masquerade as Apple with a hundredth of the budget and a penchant for outsourcing critical parts of the experience to the lowest bidder.
• jrochkind1 7y ago
  I feel like we have passed the peak of technology working well. Now my life is full of devices I can't actually get to do what I want or figure out how to use, and every year it gets worse. Crappy TV, crappy car computer, can't seem to manage to get my calendars to sync on all my devices so I'm never really sure if I'm looking at all my events (and let's not talk about trying to get facebook calendars on there), afraid to try upgrading the OS on my Mac laptop cause who knows what the hell it will do... or wait, is this just what getting old is like? Do the kids these days think everything works great? I feel like I'm not in control of most of the technology in my life, and most of it is unreliable and unpredictable and has terrible UX.
  • Spooky23 7y ago
    I agree. We have amazing tools that are difficult to do interesting things with, because of the nature of modern spyware laden software.
  • cactus2093 7y ago
    Eh, not true in my experience. Especially not the getting worse every year part. Things mostly still get better over time - now you can get CarPlay instead of the shitty builtin infotainment systems, and even those get more usable. Smart TVs work a lot better than they used to. What I’ve noticed is there are still industries that don’t use a lot of computers yet and every once in a while the entire industry all at once decides “we need to force computers on everyone now”. And they do this way ahead of putting any thought into user experience so it usually sucks and you end up dealing with new sources of shitty computer interfaces sometimes I.e. smart TVs. But they do generally seem to get gradually better from there.
  • aembleton 7y ago
    What's wrong with Facebook calendar? Just get the ical url and add it to your Google calendar
  • ensiferum 7y ago
    I agree. My Smart TV has a problem with the network and needs to be rebooted about once a week. I wish they had a big reboot menu item right in the home screen. Phone keeps getting jankier and jankier UX as the software gets more and more and bloated (I'm looking at your Chromium and Google Maps). Right now my virtual key presses lag about 5-10s Pretty much any single technical device or software component in my life malfunctions in several ways. Just last night I rebooted UE4 Editor about half a dozen times when it started rendering black and mouse stopped working. I have a Cardo bluetooth set (for motorcyclists) and every feature in that device is broken/malfunctioning in some way. And I paid 200€ for that. Utter f*n BS. Steve Jobs greatest contribution was to scream at people to make their shit work. I wish every engineer had a personal stevejobs screaming at him with a red face to make his/her shit work. Unfortunately the sad fact is.. there's no value in quality to businesses. As long as people buy their shit (and there are no better quality competitors) the added quality would only be an added cost.
• chillfox 7y ago
  Never tried CarPlay, but I do find that the inbuilt car navigation systems provide a convenient flat surface to attach a Tomtom.
• birdyrooster 7y ago
  This is a huge incentive for the independent and open source maker and hacker community to create modifications for cars. Major auto manufacturers need to throw in the towel on developing their own SDKs and operating system and become more friendly to users who want deeper integration with the rest of their internet-enabled lives.
• abdulmuhaimin 7y ago
  I dont know why automaker are so bad in this. 2 of my cars(different brand) both have issues connecting to phone bluetooth automatically.
• userbinator 7y ago
  Whenever the topic of software and cars comes up, since I work in the software industry (with a bit of hardware on the side) it's funny to see that almost everyone I've met thinks I drive something "really high-tech" (I've actually been asked several times if I have a Tesla) but they're all very shocked when they find out what my daily driver is: an early-70s "land-yacht" with no software and minimal electronics, but an upgraded powertrain. I'm really not a fan of the newer cars with tons of complexity and horrible UX (e.g. touchscreens replacing physical controls.) It could be a bit of a "knowing how the sausage is made" effect too, but I also happen to know quite a few software engineers who are into classic cars as well.
• waste_monk 7y ago
  >I used to love that car. It’s the first nice car I’ve owned (in Denmark, there was a 225% tax (VAT included) on cars last I bought one, so most people get the smallest, crappiest car that can work for their needs). What is the reason for these extreme car taxes? as an Australian, I expect if the government here tried to introduce/enforce these sorts of taxes (per [1]) there would be riots and possibly worse - we have a very strong car culture. It would be political suicide to even announce you were considering it. I see some reference to "green" fees and C02 emissions taxes, but those are in the context of fuel being purchased. Surely this cannot also account for the taxes on the purchase price of the car? [1] https://www.quora.com/What-taxes-do-car-owners-pay-in-Denmark https://www.quora.com/What-taxes-do-car-owners-pay-in-Denmar...
  • 3pt14159 7y ago
    If you want urban sprawl like we have in Canada and I assume Australia, then go for it. Denmark doesn't let their cities look like crap. I say this as someone that loves my home city, Toronto, but cars are a collective action problem. To any one person it makes sense to take the car instead of the bus, but if we all take the car then we all get there 2 hours later than if even half of us took the bus or streetcar.
• sanj 7y ago
  I swapped out my stock radio for one that supported CarPlay. The unit was only $250 and about an hour of effort. Within a week I bought another replacement for the other car. Best tech upgrade I’ve made in my life in a while. It really is a huge improvement over any/all software from car manufacturers.
• torgian 7y ago
  I honestly don't even see the need for screens in a car. I'm perfectly happy with having physical buttons/dials to control my music and AC. I don't need to know anything else other than what's on the dashboard. (speed, rpm, fuel, etc for those who are wondering) It just seems like a huge waste of time, effort, and money for something that a smartphone can do, all while introducing a mandatory version of a potentially fatal distraction. And it looks shitty and operates pretty terribly. Maybe this will make more sense if/when cars become fully automated, but it should have no place in a vehicle today, when your attention should be on the road.
  • nullwarp 7y ago
    This so much for me. My truck has all knobs and buttons, it's extremely easy to adjust anything. No screen but a simple one in the middle (the 8 Matrix screens or whatever they're called) Meanwhile my wife's car has a full infotainment system and I have to stare at it to figure out what buttons to hit next and it drives me nuts. That said I'm also partial to removing all screens outside of some kind of GPS. People already don't respect driving their 2-3 ton machine at 100+ feet per second, stop giving them even more reasons to not pay attention to the road.
    • falcolas 7y ago
      > 2-3 ton machine at 100+ feet per second Most dump trucks don't have infotainment modules. Some are lucky to even have seats.
      • whenchamenia 7y ago
        Show me a dump truck without seats.
        • phyllostachys 7y ago
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LywkIfAA1M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LywkIfAA1M
      • 7y ago
• mrb 7y ago
  Oh boy, I can relate. In fact, I would go as far as saying that many modern cars (sedans) are so close in terms of mechanical reliability, safety features, etc, that the differentiating features that determine which car I buy end up being mostly the car software behind all the dashboard features that I use every single day: Android Auto, Bluetooth connectivity, precision of the touchscreen (if any), lag, etc. Manufacturers take note: If your shitty infotainment system takes more than 3 seconds to show the video feed after engaging the reverse gear, I won't buy your car. If your shitty system doesn't let the passenger change radio stations when Android Auto is in use (because the physical button for the radio channel is repurposed to zoom in/out in Maps in Android Auto coughChryslercough), I won't buy your car. If your shitty HomeLink buttons are non-responsive the first few seconds after the engine is started (because your firmware is bloated and takes seconds to boot what could be done in milliseconds), I won't buy your car.
  • sircastor 7y ago
    I work in infotainment for a manufacturer. We're required to bring up the camera in less than 2 seconds from cold start. I'm can't recall right now if that was a legal requirement our internal one.
• crooked-v 7y ago
  One useful tip: even with Bluetooth connections, "Hey Siri" will still use the phone's microphone for input if that's where it picks it up, for that one command only. Of course, this still leaves the obvious flaw of iOS not being able to designate separate 'input' and 'output' devices for some reason.
  • drdaeman 7y ago
    Isn't that a Bluetooth thing? In A2DP it cannot use microphone at all, and you can't really stream music over HSP or HFP because of terrible quality...
• reilly3000 7y ago
  I’ve had text input on my 2016 Subaru Outback block for 5 minutes+ while trying to input an address. I’ve never had a RPi zero block for anything that long. I wonder what terrible hardware they use and if it’s performance is measured in kilohertz. It makes that expensive GPS system a slap in the face. I would love to be able to feed it a string containing my destination address that I input from the phone. For now, it never gets used.
• drdaeman 7y ago
  > iDrive often flakes out and starts sending a continuous stream of “play” signals to my phone Automatically sending "play" commands - even only when the phone is connected (or reconnected) - is the worst thing ever that I've encountered. Especially with iOS devices. Every single time I turn the ignition on, my car forces phone to play music - and I rarely want that. Makes me want to kill whoever had that design idea (j/k) I wonder if there are Bluetooth proxy devices (IDK, a pair of ESP8266s?) that just strip certain AVRCP commands sent within 5 seconds after (re)connections while passing through everything else...
• nStyle 7y ago
  Not every car's proprietary implementation is so bad. Mazda is pretty good. Carplay still trumps it all of course and OF COURSE it should be standard. Honestly, nothing really replaces your phone though. A vent mount or a magnetic mount is still my preferred solution.
• ivanhoe 7y ago
  Can't agree more, CarPlay is IMHO the only "smart" functionality that actually makes sense to use with my car. Their native infotainment system feels more like "everyone else has it, let's put something together quick", than a serious software project. And especially stupid is that, because they sell multiple packages of equipment, there are overlapping functionalities. For instance I have a clock on main board and on the touch screen, and they're not in sync as those are 2 completely separate systems. There are also two temperatures (at least they usually match). Infotainment system has no access to car performance params, I have to use weird stick behind the wheel to, for instance, check the tire pressure, although that's a type of info that's much more appropriate for touch screen than the half of the features they've put there... literally zero thought was given on how to create integrated and pleasurable UX, it's just a number of pluggable modules, to make it easier to sell...
• ericfrederich 7y ago
  Software has ruined my Jeep Wrangler https://youtu.be/T3IowgbXYRQ https://youtu.be/T3IowgbXYRQ https://youtu.be/j-clbv0E7f0 https://youtu.be/j-clbv0E7f0 https://youtu.be/CRjg8wwQ6qA https://youtu.be/CRjg8wwQ6qA https://youtu.be/Y4dTz8oM4Rs https://youtu.be/Y4dTz8oM4Rs https://youtu.be/-PRmE4dnj28 https://youtu.be/-PRmE4dnj28
• readhn 7y ago
  #firstworldproblems
• jaimex2 7y ago
  Heh, wait till he finds out BMW charge a subscription for Auto and Carplay.
• billforsternz 7y ago
  Apropos of not much I was just driving to an unfamiliar location and using the car Satnav. I was reminded why I actively avoid it. The text to speech mangles almost every street name, even completely commonplace English language names. "Gracefield" became Gra - ss - fie - lid or something. I implemented the simple Bethesda Naval Laboratory text to phoneme algorithm in the early 1980s based on a Steve Ciarcia article in Byte magazine and I'm sure it was better. Also I hear the OP on the subject of updates. I bought this car new less than 4 years ago, the Satnav regularly scolds me at ignition time to do an update - the dealer looked at me as if I was crazy "No we can't do updates - you should try and figure out how to do it yourself".
• GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  > [...] in Denmark, there was a 225% tax (VAT included) on cars last I bought one [...] Wow please tell me this is inaccurate? 225% tax??
• atombender 7y ago
  I rented a 2018 Toyota Prius recently. Wonderful car, but the software was horrible, as it usually is. The worst problem was that when I turned the car on, it would start loudly playing random music from my iPhone via Bluetooth. Every single time, without fault. Sometimes it would just happen randomly while driving, too. There's no setting to turn it off. If you google the problem, you'll a bunch of forums like priuschat.com, full of exasperated people who are trying to figure out the problem and failing. There's no real solution. There is a workaround, and it's hilarious: Create a playlist containing just a single track that contains a few hours of silence. Can't stop it from being played, but at least it will be quiet. I love CarPlay, and wish every car had it.
• Anon3941 7y ago
  For older BMWs, you can get CarPlay using a device from these guys http://www.unichip-tec.com http://www.unichip-tec.com
• neil_s 7y ago
  This is exactly the experience I had. Driving my friend's Honda Civic was way more pleasurable than driving another friend's BMW, because the former had Android Auto. Now I refuse to rent a car without one. OP could probably buy an OTT Apple Carplay unit I think, rather than throwing the whole car out just to replace the infotainment.
• beilabs 7y ago
  Being in Nepal I made the plunge earlier this year to buy a vehicle even with the extra 250% import tax the government places on them. Imported from India, no GPS working, no maps. The entertainment system is a piece of shit! Bluetooth works fine but Ford India crippled the entire system. That said, I've realized that touch screen systems have no place in any vehicle. Too damn distracting requiring you to take your eyes off of the road, incredibly risky when driving around Kathmandu.
• threefour 7y ago
  I wrote a case study of BMW's iDrive a few years ago, apparently it's still relevant https://www.fastcompany.com/1665496/when-rebooting-a-project-throw-out-the-bathwater-but-keep-the-baby https://www.fastcompany.com/1665496/when-rebooting-a-project...
• lqet 7y ago
  Honest question: are there new cars on the market today where I, as a driver, do not have to directly interact with any piece of software? In other words, are there still cars around that solve problems mechanically? A close family member took a job at a location that was too far away for public transportation and bought a Kia Picanto [0] in 2004. I regularly drove that car until 3 years ago, and it was an overall pleasant experience. The car only had mechanical buttons and switches inside, no screens at all (only a LCD for clock and mileage, and the radio display). The clutch pedal was connected to the clutch via a bowden cable (I know that because it snapped one time while I was driving). The gas pedal was also connected directly to the motor. It had 3 rotating switches for the AC and the heating, a button for the emergency light, and a button for the back window heating. It was an honest car. I want a car I can control, not a semi-autonomous home entertainment system that tries to mask its mechanical shortcomings with cheap software. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Kia_Picanto_in_north_London_%28cropped%29.jpg/1280px-Kia_Picanto_in_north_London_%28cropped%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Ki...
  • cr0sh 7y ago
    I own a pre-JK Jeep Wrangler (2004 TJ) - it was probably among the last of vehicles made in this century (for the United States, and probably most of Europe) that match what you're wanting. Everything is pretty much mechanical on mine; in fact, I think the AC controls are still old-school resistor speed control, bowden cable vent control, and vacuum-assist function control. If you look at the electrical diagram in a Haynes for it, you can see that there isn't much "there" - it's still mostly "switch connected to relay, relay connected to accessory" - everything isn't routed thru a computer or such. My TJ has plenty of downsides that probably don't affect later versions of the vehicle - high gas mileage being the greatest; spartan interior (there's a label inside the vehicle that says "The body of this vehicle isn't designed to protect occupants in the event of an accident, but is only for protection from the elements"!) - though easy to clean (remove drain plugs, hose it out), so much road noise you have to yell to be heard at speed (again - due to the spartan interior), and a rough and somewhat unstable driving experience (part of that is due to my lift and larger than stock tires, tho). Unfortunately, due to a number of reasons, it's not only an anomaly - but most vehicles sold in first world markets just aren't built that way any longer. Safety concerns (airbags everywhere!) have mandated for larger vehicles, which meant more dash to stick stuff on and in (otherwise, it'd look odd), CAFE rules (here in the USA), etc. Also emissions and fuel economy mean much more computer control, and more "drive by wire" and for some reason manufacturers decided that all has to be routed thru the entertainment console too. Outside of the first-world developed economies, though, you'll find those cars you want. But you likely as not can't import them, or if you can, they can't be driven or licensed for public roads. Many won't pass US or EU crash test safety standards, if that matters to you. These cars are mainly built and for the markets in India and China - as well as marketed to African nations (I don't know of any "domestic" African nation made commercially available vehicles - there may be some foreign manufacturers though). One vehicle I wish I could purchase and drive here in the USA - but likely never will (it likely couldn't be licensed for public roads, but even if it could, it probably isn't something you can purchase in single quantities - at least easily) is the OX: http://oxgvt.com/ http://oxgvt.com/ Great off-road handling (for a FWD-only vehicle), diesel engine, build-it-yourself from flatpack, easily fixable, central driver position, extreme hauling capacity - it's like everything I'd want in a vehicle, but sadly I can't own one. Downside is (likely) no AC system - but I could probably hack something in. I figure that if I ever want a vehicle like that, I'm going to have to build one myself on a small pickup chassis or something.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• yitchelle 7y ago
  Hang on. When I saw the headline, I assumed that he was referring to the software "in" the car. Ie, the software controlling the Engine, or the ABS, or Transmission, or the in-cabin lights, or headlines, seat controllers, or ... I could go on. He is complaining about the software in his central console that he interacts with each day. It is only a portion of all the software used in the car. I guess the big lesson learn here is nothing drives a customer satisfaction other what they directly interacts with.
  • mikl 7y ago
    I only gave it a passing mention, but the software that drives the car itself (not just the central console) had some serious security vulnerabilities last year: https://www.zdnet.com/article/over-a-dozen-vulnerabilities-uncovered-in-bmw-vehicles/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/over-a-dozen-vulnerabilities-u... But in general, the car companies take a little more care with those life-critical systems, for liability reasons, if nothing else.
• stef25 7y ago
  Was waiting for an article like this to appear. I have an X1 and integration with iPhone is a disaster. The Audible app on the iPhone will popup a warning that consists of the BMW logo taking up 80% of the screen with a small text warning at the bottom saying "don't use this while driving" and a small "x" hidden somewhere to close the warning. It's beyond ridiculous. What gets me most is the Audm app on the iPhone. Whenever I get back in the car after using it, it will cause the car to start playing the same song from my Apple Music library. Always the same song, but randomly picked as far as I can tell (it's not the last one I listened to nor or the first one alphabetically). It's like an alarm clock - you end up hating the song because it comes on every single time you start the car. When I delete the song from my library it will just pick another one. When I stop using Audm, this annoyance stops. No idea what the logic behind this behavior is. The BMW connect app is currently stuck in a loop where it says it's "doing something", even after having restarted my phone. So it's currently unusable, guess I should reinstall it. This is an 80EUR app which I got so I can remote lock the car cause I always forget and people have helped themselves to stuff in my car so many times. The X1 doesn't lock itself when I walk away, unlike the 116D did. GPS - garbage interface compared to Waze which I can't stop using despite my aversion to being tracked. Great car, but many software annoyances.
  • prepend 7y ago
    > The BMW connect app is currently stuck in a loop where it says it's "doing something" Cute error messages really frustrate me when they get stuck or display frequently. They just remind me how much I want an error message that gives me something to work with. This seems like the lazy implementation equivalent of “commit” as your commit message.
• acdha 7y ago
  We have a 2006 Subaru. We don’t drive for our commutes so it’s in great shape but have debated what we’ll do when it’s due to be replaced. I’ve driven some rentals along with loaners when we’ve had our car serviced, and the primary reason I have not to buy a new car is uniformly terrible software combined with a touchscreen interface. Physical controls are so much faster and safer to use that I won’t consider a car which doesn’t have them — it’s amazing how bad the QA is on new vehicles, with slow, laggy buttons for things like climate control. Having 10k tracks in iTunes meant an entire generation of entertainment systems would literally crash after plugging in a USB cable; now they’ve progressed to popping up a modal dialog which blocks all functionality until you acknowledge that they’re bad at their jobs.
• foxX 7y ago
  This is not a criticism of cars, but rather a criticism of the sorry state of software and computer hardware in a free-market (-ish) world.
• eugmill 7y ago
  My best car "feature" was a rental I had that when connected to bluetooth and driving, would auto-reply to SMS messages with "I'm driving and can't talk right now". At the time I had facebook notifications send me sms messages, and if you reply, it would post the reply to facebook. I had left a bunch of "I'm driving and can't talk right now" comments on random posts without realizing it until days later.
• jerome-jh 7y ago
  Look at car ads: the infotainment system, as it is called, is now the primary argument for selling cars. That is another symptom of the epoch rot. And they're made harder to replace with aftermarket units. Having said that, bluetooth took more than ten years to stabilize and some may not have it right yet. For Carplay: Apple has constantly been stiffening the conditions for certification, which now includes a multi-day drive test. So the next crop may be somewhat better.
• vgoh1 7y ago
  I bought a 90's car a few months ago - low mileage dependable Japanese car, nearly bare bones except for air conditioning and airbags (which were both optional equipment). In average condition, they go about $2k, mine was immaculate, so it was $6k. Truly like driving a brand new car from the mid 90's. If you are sick of the electronics, just get a "new" old car. You won't regret it. You can even easily replace the tape deck with a high quality head unit to get all the features you need, but done right because car audio companies are just better at doing infotainment type stuff, and you can get something unobtrusive. Everything that I thought I would miss, or have a hard time adjusting to be without, ABS, power windows, power locks, traction control, remote start, etc., turns out, I didn't really need it. Yes, there is the safety aspect of it, but I guess that depends on what kind of a drive you are, and what type of area that you live in.
  • closetohome 7y ago
    When I got my 2001 Xterra it had one of those hideous neon double-din monstrosities of an aftermarket stereo in it. I ripped the entire thing out and replaced it with a cheap amp and bluetooth receiver. Now it's just a blank panel with some USB ports for charging. And judging by the reports in this thread, it's more reliable than a BMW system.
• dandare 7y ago
  The touch screen terminal in my Hiunday i40 is absolute crap. I wish the carmakers would open their APIs and leave a hole in the middle panel for whatever 3rd party table the user chooses.
• greenhatman 7y ago
  I accidentally stumbled on this yesterday while looking for something else: https://www.autopi.io/ https://www.autopi.io/ Raspberry Pi for cars. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l3cPCL1aa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l3cPCL1aa0
• matty22 7y ago
  I just bought a new vehicle a few months back and my number 1 requirement was that it be a vehicle and not a computer on wheels. I have no power windows, no power locks, no backup camera, no lane assist, or any of that junk. The most advanced piece of electronics on the dash is a CD player and an aux in. It is shocking how much more attention I pay to what I'm doing and even how much more I enjoy driving when I don't have to futz about with a bunch of annoying technology. I have no plans to ever purchase a car with a built in operating system/screen. The benefits don't outweigh being annoyed by your own car.
• petee 7y ago
  My 2013 Tacoma has alot of software issues with the touchscreen radio -- Bluetooth goes haywire, UI gets funky, among other things. Toyota says there no updates were ever made, despite some issues I'm sure people have complained about. I can't see the harm in open sourcing something like this Plus side is, eventually I'll just have to learn to either hack it, or cobble something new with the parts.
• hi41 7y ago
  I hate it when a song starts playing soon after starting the car. It will be great if the driver gets to choose. Maybe he wants moments of silence or listen to a lecture on another app.
• dkraft 7y ago
  Its not the software. Its the outsourcing stupid.
• rsbrown 7y ago
  > I think the market will be quite unforgiving to the car brands that do not prioritise software quality in the future. The market got us here. Why the fuck would you expect it to get us out of this mess?
• ioconnor 7y ago
  Car manufacturers try to hook you into their software when you really should never use any of it. Unfortunately these days you can't even buy a car without a pile of software in it. Instead you should use only the products that come with the phone and totally ignore the preinstalled crapware that comes with a car. We need to go back to the days where a car does only one thing and one thing well.