15 ms·

It’d be interesting to see the results of a survey on this I think, I and I know many of my peers are of the exact opposite opinion. I like the move to usb-c, I

by mstade 7y ago

It’d be interesting to see the results of a survey on this I think, I and I know many of my peers are of the exact opposite opinion. I like the move to usb-c, I like the new keyboard, I don’t mind (but also don’t really use) the Touch Bar but I can’t live without Touch ID at this point. The big trackpad is magical to me, and the thickness and weight of the 13” is just right. I have an older MBP as well, 2013 maybe, and it’s lovely too but it feels like an old truck next to my sleek sports car that is my 2016 MBP. I for one would be sad if they went back on some of the supposedly bold moves they’ve pulled, to be honest. The only thing I wish is that they’d kill that silly lightning connector for the phones so I could have usb-c goodness there too! I guess that’s just design for ya – it’s often divisive, especially if decisive.

jedberg 7y ago
Nothing wrong with USB-C and the big trackpad is fine too, and I would love to have touchID on my 2015MBP. But getting rid of mag power and the USB-A ports, HDMI port, and SD card slot was a big step back. Maybe you don't ever need to present anything from your laptop, but if you talk to anyone who does, they will tell you how awful it is to not have an HDMI port. The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen. And if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible. And of course almost all accessories are still USB-A.
- burtmacklin 7y ago
  woe, thy name is donglelyfe
- mistersquid 7y ago
  To a large degree Apple is moving away from using wires altogether, and in the presentation space they appear to be doubling down on AirPlay 2. Neither advocating nor deprecating. Only observing.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    Airplay 2 works great if the place you're presenting in supports it, but most places don't upgrade their equipment that often.
    - mstade 7y ago
      Screen cast dongles are pretty much a dime a dozen these days though. Maybe I’m lucky but in he past two years or so I haven’t been anywhere that still relies on hdmi for presenting on big screens. Except conferences.
      - andrewprock 7y ago
        The problem with dongles isn't the cost. It's the labor it takes to purchase, install, secure, and maintain.
        mstade 7y ago
        You could do it surreptitiously – get a $20-30 dongle and just hook it up and hope no one fires you for it. :o)
      - _ph_ 7y ago
        Which screen cast dongles are cheap and support Air Play? I would really be interested to push for them locally.
        mstade 7y ago
        Amazon has a bunch[0] but couldn't really vouch for any of them, I mainly use Apple TV (not just for airplay.) I've also seen these things in pretty much any electronics store I've been the past couple of years, particularly ones in touristy areas – I guess plenty of people like to cast video to hotel room TVs maybe? A buddy of mine used a dongle for his big screen pre-streaming features era TV. He mainly used it to stream games from his phone or iPad to the TV, and Netflix. I think it was chromecast though, not airplay, but same difference really. [0]: https://www.amazon.com/hdmi-airplay-dongle/s?k=hdmi+airplay+dongle https://www.amazon.com/hdmi-airplay-dongle/s?k=hdmi+airplay+...
  - kelp 7y ago
    This is what we do in our office. We use airplay or a Zoom screen share. Plugging in is a last resort. I never have to do that.
    - op00to 7y ago
      Rip your battery?
      - usaphp 7y ago
        If you have access to a tv or a projector - it probably means there is a power outlet that you can use to charge your laptop
        kelp 7y ago
        And you do need it, Zoom has a penchant for eating through battery!
- crazygringo 7y ago
  > The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen. Just curious why? I use mine almost every day and have never had issues. It's not an Apple-branded one though, it's "Cable Matters"... but if anything Apple adapters tend to be higher quality than third-party ones? (I also use a Cable Matters SD adapter more than once a week to transfer video and it's been working flawlessly for over a year too.)
  - mattigames 7y ago
    This link should give you some clues, is one of the worst reviewed products on Apple.com https://www.apple.com/shop/reviews/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/reviews/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-a...
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      I'm not sure I'd put a lot of credibility in the reviews on apple.com. Especially for a device like a display adapter which is frequently connected to a finicky and/or cheap device like a projector or display.
      - mattigames 7y ago
        Then why so many have 5 stars on Amazon? Are people that buy apple products more likely to connect them to finicky or cheap devices?
        saagarjha 7y ago
        No, I think that people who have had bad experiences with their adapter are more likely to go the manufacturer's website and post comments about how it didn't work for them. If Amazon wasn't a wasteland of fake reviews, I might actually trust it more than Apple's website.
        mattigames 7y ago
        So don't trust Amazon because fake reviews, don't trust Apple reviews cause users are dumb and confuse adapter issues with third-party devices issues, I think you just don't trust reviews regardless.
- asark 7y ago
  I think they really needed a transition design for 3-4 years that included USB-C but still had the "legacy" ports—in quotes because when they announced the C-only model I hadn't even seen a USB-C port or cable in real life yet. USB-A is nowhere near being on the way out yet. Especially when their own damn mobile devices still come with A cables. We're way into their attempt to push everything to USB-C but I went to Target to grab one for my work laptop (to be able to charge an iPhone or iPad from it) and the C cables that are anything other than C-to-A (for some android phones) are 100% Apple branded. Everything's still A and Micro-USB. A whole wall of that. USB-C? Only in a tiny Apple section. Flash drives? Mostly still A. Everything, really. Having only C continues to suck, and it looks like it will for a while. Apple's switch to C doesn't even seem to have changed things that much—everyone seems to just still do A and assume the poor Macbook users will plug in a hub or use an adapter.
  - Bud 7y ago
    Stop expecting Target to carry a 2019-appropriate selection of tech. Just go to monoprice.com.
    - asark 7y ago
      Their tech is 2019 appropriate if you don't have an Apple laptop, is the thing. And they even provide some USB-C stuff for Apple devices, but only from Apple, I assume because the demand is nearly nonexistent. Just like if it were a proprietary Apple port—though I think they actually have some lightning cables from other manufacturers, at least, unlike USB-C. [EDIT] I just think they whiffed well ahead of the ball on this one, is all. No USB-C ports to 100% USB-C ports was premature. I think the percentage of their market that was like "oh good now I can plug all my USB-C stuff into this, which is most of what I have!" rounds down to zero, while all my geek friends and co-workers' reactions were closer to "so... there will be zero things in my home or office I can plug into this without an adapter? And for this I gain... maybe 1mm more of thinness?" with actual experience quickly confirming that concern as valid, as #donglelife continues without end in sight.
      - tjohns 7y ago
- bradknowles 7y ago
  So, on the power side of the equation, I have come to understand why they chose to go the direction they did. With the previous generation of MagSafe/MagSafe II power supplies, if the cable gets frayed, you have to replace the entire power supply. If the MagSafe connector gets hosed, you have to replace the entire power supply. Basically, if anything goes wrong beyond the AC input side, you have to replace the whole power supply. I ended up buying a whole bunch of these things over the years, so I am particularly sensitive to the amount of money I've spent. With the USB-C power supplies, if something goes wrong with the cable, you just get a new cable. If something goes wrong with the connector on the cable, you just get a new cable. The only time you need to replace the entire power supply itself is if something goes wrong internally, or if something goes wrong with the USB-C connector on the power supply. And since cables are engineered to break before cable connectors, that is much less likely. Don't get me wrong, the MagSafe connector has saved my machine on several occasions. But I understand why they want to be able to cheaply and easily replace just the cable part, because that's the part that is most likely to have hardware failures. I do wish they had figured out some way to have a standardized cable interface on the power supply itself, and a MagSafe-like connector on the other end. That would have been the best of both worlds. But failing that, I think I will grudgingly take the second-best solution, which is to have a standard USB-C connector on both ends. Now, this whole concept of mixing USB-C, USB-C Power Delivery, and Thunderbolt 3, that's a whole 'nother Gordian Knot that I really wish they had not created.
  - carbocation 7y ago
    It seems like something like this could be best of both worlds: a magsafe power cable + USB-C connection: https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Charge/dp/B07MMKZ8XD/ https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Char...
  - thinkling 7y ago
    > if the cable gets frayed, you have to replace the entire power supply This is true for the existing design but it would have been easy to redesign the power supply to avoid it. Just look at the other end: the wall-plug end has long been replaceable; it slides out so you can put on a different plug or a longer cable. This could be true on the MagSafe side as well -- then any Mac power supply could be used with any generation Mac, just by switching out the MagSafe/USB-C end.
- msbarnett 7y ago
  > The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen. FWIW, you're far better off getting a native cable with a USB-C end like [1] or [2] rather than using a dongle. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-USB-C-Supporting-Black/dp/B073H9RG9T/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-USB-C-Supporting-Black/... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-USB-C-Supporting/dp/B01J6DT070/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-USB-C-Suppo...
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    Maybe for your personal monitors. A far more annoying problem is connecting to conference room projectors. My or still has conference rooms with nothing but VGA cables plugged in to the projector.
    - dpkonofa 7y ago
      This is exactly why I'm 100% for the USB-C switch. I have 1 dongle that handles every video type to USB-C - VGA, DVI, HDMI, and even mDP. There's no reason for all 4 of those ports to be built into the computer on the off chance that I need one of them.
      - snovv_crash 7y ago
        I have the opposite perspective. I'd like my $3000 device to have all the ports I'm likely to need over the lifetime of said device. Dongles and specific adapter cables are a pain.
        dpkonofa 7y ago
        But then we're back at the beginning of this conversation and you're saying you'd rather have a larger, bulkier, laptop that can accommodate several of these single-use ports. The entire conversation was related to why USB-C was a good/bad decision. I think it was a good decision because I have infinitely more flexibility than I'd have with what you're suggesting. Anything that needs to work over the "lifetime of said device" needs to be able to handle future technologies and having dedicated HDMI ports, for example, is not useful for that because even the HDMI spec has changed multiple times in the last few years.
- threeseed 7y ago
  I use two USB-C to HDMI adapters every day and never had issues. Maybe try a different manufacturer.
  - xxs 7y ago
    So you are saying: having a built-in hdmi port would have been useful. There is very little reason not to have all ports - hmdi, mini display port (+display port) readily available; connected straight to the video card. There is plenty of room.
    - threeseed 7y ago
      No because I would still need a DisplayPort to HDMI dongle. I would rather just stick with the one USB-C connector.
- gnachman 7y ago
  > worst adapter I've ever seen I can help with that: https://www.apple.com/sg_smb_5200/shop/product/MB571Z/A/mini-displayport-to-dual-link-dvi-adapter https://www.apple.com/sg_smb_5200/shop/product/MB571Z/A/mini... Half the charm is lost without seeing the two DVI cables that plug in to it.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    It only has one DVI port and the USB-pass-through. Funny as it is, I am writing this post on a Dell 30" screen connected via this very adapter to a 2015 MB Pro. Yes, this was one of the worst contraptions of a dongle ever made, but in this case, it was the only way to create dual-link DVI ouptut (needed for resolutions larger than 1920x1080) from a Displayport.
- mstade 7y ago
  > Maybe you don't ever need to present anything from your laptop [...] I do, almost daily. I even bought the HDMI dongle thinking I might need it when doing presentations outside of my usual workplaces but I have literally never used it. The presentation problem was solved years ago by airplay and chromecast, and the only thing I use HDMI for these days is to hook up things permanently, not temporarily. I did think at first that I’d miss MagSafe, but I’ve never had an issue with the cable sticking in the port such that I yank my laptop of the table, and I’ve yanked that cable out a number of times. As another commenter rightly pointed out as well, the move from MagSafe actually meant when my cable got damaged because someone put a chair on it I didn’t have to swap the whole power supply, just the cable. Huge win and since I had extra I could solve it right then and there. I’m no photographer though, so can’t really say for the SD thing. Maybe that does suck.
- matwood 7y ago
  > Maybe you don't ever need to present anything from your laptop I present all the time, but I can't remember the last time I had to plug in. The problem with trying to plug in is that the other side could be anything from VGA to DP. Should VGA ports be stuck back onto the MBP? > And if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible. What about the CF, XQD, or mini-SD slot? I'm an enthusiast photographer (maybe even semi-pro as I have been paid for my pics before), and soon I will not have a need for an SD card slot. > mag power Mag safe was nice, but I recently took a trip where I needed a single power brick and cable for my MBP and iPad. Once the iPhone goes USB-C it will make traveling even that much easier.
  - mstade 7y ago
    > Mag safe was nice, but I recently took a trip where I needed a single power brick and cable for my MBP and iPad. Once the iPhone goes USB-C it will make traveling even that much easier. I didn’t even realize how much this would matter to me until I went traveling. All of a sudden I don’t even need anything but the brick, because I’ll just either hook it up to my phone directly with a ubs-c to lightning cable (and it charges crazy fast) or I’ll use the laptop as a hub. I still carry a sugar cube with me just in case, but I never use it really.
  - lloeki 7y ago
    Get a USB-C Lightning cable. One brick, two cables, and you can charge the iPhone on the other devices. Yes it’d be better if the iPhone was USB-C too but that basically has been my strategy: get a set of USB-C to A/B/Mini/Micro/Micro3/HDMI/Lightning cables (not that I lug all of them around, they’re merely plugged into my accessories). There exist USB-C magnet thingies too.
  - 886 7y ago
    Agreed. I'm an enthusiast photographer and previously semi prod. The SD card slot is nice to have some times, but most of the time I use a dedicated card reader for CF, SD, and micro-SD cards.
- dpkonofa 7y ago
  >how awful it is to not have an HDMI port. Disagree wholeheartedly. I bought a USB-C to Video adapter from Amazon that has DVI, VGA, HDMI, and mDP and it only takes up one space on my MacBook and the only time I ever need to use it is when I'm presenting so I can just keep it in my laptop bag. That also means that I don't have to worry about what tech is being used at the place I'm presenting because I have all the options covered as opposed to just having 1 port or multiple ports on my machine. At my desk, I have a USB-C hub that's connected to both monitors, storage, power, and my keyboard/mouse and it's also 1 cable and 1 slot on the MacBook. I can hook either up to whatever port on whatever side I want to. The flexibility is way more worthwhile than a dedicated HDMI port to me.
  - Domenic_S 7y ago
    I get the appeal. At my (home) desk, I have the same (minus power), except it's Thunderbolt, which my 2014 MBP has. For a couple beautiful years I could switch monitor/headset/kb/mouse between work and home laptops with 1 simple plug. Now that the work lappy is USB C though things aren't simple anymore.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      Do you have a link to the device? I'm curious about the specs.
      - Domenic_S 7y ago
        the hub? it's lg thunderbolt monitor with usb hub.
    - thirdsun 7y ago
      Wouldn't an USB-C enabled monitor provide the same functionality? Whenever you plug in either laptop the USB-C connection would provide video, an USB hub (on the monitor) and even charge your laptop. What am I missing here? Well, unless you don't use an external display. And in that case why not just get an USB-C hub with video out? Your Thunderbolt-enabled Macbook should work regardless.
- fortran77 7y ago
  Pro cameras us CF / CFast cards, so the SD slot won't really help them. It's probably OK not to have it wrt the pro market. https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/learn/education/topics/article/2018/July/EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-and-CFast-Cards/EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-and-CFast-Cards https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/learn/educ...
  - dbspin 7y ago
    Define 'pro'. My Sony A7iii uses SD cards. My Blackmagic pocket cinema writes to USB-C. If anything C-Fast is a dying medium. SD cards are tremendously cheaper, and at this point likely as fast.
    - fortran77 7y ago
      Both Canon and Nikon "pro" cameras take CF cards: http://d810.org/recommended-sd-and-cf-media-cards-for-nikon-d810/ http://d810.org/recommended-sd-and-cf-media-cards-for-nikon-... I agree with you that it's pointless to do that in 2019, but that doesn't change the facts.
      - petepete 7y ago
        The D810 came out in 2014, Nikon have since favoured XQD over CF. The D5 was available with both, but the D500 and D850 both take an SD and XQD card - and their new mirrorless line is XQD only. Of course, the next CF standard, CFexpress, is XQD-shaped and devices will be backward compatible.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  how awful it is to not have an HDMI port Seriously not awful at all. When I do presentations in my department's conference room, I just AirPlay to the AppleTV connected to the projector. It was a great solution because it allows anyone on the team to do presentations. All they have to do is mirror their screen and bring their mouse or trackpad into the conference room. It's been a godsend. If I have to do presentations in other buildings on campus (about every other week), I bring my USB-C to HDMI dongle. It's super small, weighs nothing, and always works. I've heard that there are some off-brand USB-C to HDMI adapters from Amazon that are flaky, but the Belkin one that the IT department got me is rock solid. I've used it probably 30 times so far. I doubt anyone who really had to do presentations minds carrying around a tiny dongle, compared to all the other things they'll bring to a presentation. if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible The pro photographers in my company's Communications department all say they hate built-in SD card readers. They all use standalone units. I don't know why, though. I'll have to ask. And of course almost all accessories are still USB-A. That's the same moaning people did about parallel and serial ports.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    > When I do presentations in my department's conference room, I just AirPlay to the AppleTV connected to the projector. That's, uh, great if there happens to be an expensive AppleTV connected to the projector.
    - throwaway9980 7y ago
      AppleTV, the ultimate dongle. They’re small enough that you could carry one with you and use it as your HDMI adapter.
    - hamandcheese 7y ago
      An Apple TV is not expensive compared to the cost of a conference room.
      - patmcc 7y ago
- moon2 7y ago
  Back when they launched the Macbook Air, we also thought having no DVD drive was a big step back. It took some time, but other companies started removing the DVD drives from their laptops as well. Maybe technology moves around Apple after all. If your Macbook does not have a SD Card slot, then SD Cards will soon be dead. Having a single USB-C, though, is still frustrating.
  - killjoywashere 7y ago
    I don't recall a lot of people crying about the loss of a DVD drive. That was the moment where everyone outside techdom was forced to realize that everything goes over the network. Also, as someone who still has a iMac with an optical drive, their failure rate (Apple or any other brand) has always been atrocious.
    - fwip 7y ago
      I think the bigger outcry than the DVD was the removal of the Ethernet port. (Which was also overblown).
  - test1235 7y ago
    >SD Cards will soon be dead. Not a chance - professional photographers won't be ditching their cameras anytime soon.
    - throw0101a 7y ago
      Professional photographers should (IMHO) either shoot tethered or get an external USB 3.1 (>5Gb/s) external card reader. Fstopper recently did some quick benchmarks, and the transfer times were significantly faster: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWhvc-UCOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWhvc-UCOA
  - tarsinge 7y ago
    Also remember the huge outcry when the iMac didn’t come with a floppy drive. One or two years after USB keys became ubiquitous.
- SkyMarshal 7y ago
  >Nothing wrong with USB-C and the big trackpad is fine too, and I would love to have touchID on my 2015MBP. But getting rid of mag power and the USB-A ports, HDMI port, and SD card slot was a big step back. All of the above plus a thicker battery. 95% of the time I use my MBPr plugged in, but the few times I need to run it on battery power it would be nice to have longer than 2hr run time (late 2013 MBPr 15" w/ Iris Pro/GeForce GT 750M and brand new battery).
  - kalleboo 7y ago
    The 2013 MBPr 15" models have the largest li-ion battery allowed to be brought onto an airplane by the FAA, so you're not going to get anything bigger than that. My complaint is that they've made the batteries smaller than that maximum on the new models (starting 2016) At least with USB-C Macs you can bring a separate standard USB PD battery pack and charge off that. There was no such option for the MagSafe Macs (there was a third party company that made one but Apple sued them to death)
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  The users who want/need all those ports are pretty niche, even among power user developers and graphic designers. I think Apple did their market research on this.
- usaphp 7y ago
  I prefer the ability to easy replace my usb c cable if it gets damaged, compared to buying a new 80$ brick with MagSafe. Also the ability to charge my laptop from either side is awesome too. Also once iPhone new iPhone will have a type c charging you will be able to use a cable from your MacBook to charge your phone, so you will only need to carry MacBook charger without worrying about a separate cable for your iPhone
- cosmodisk 7y ago
  I'm not an Apple fan and I never had any of their products, however I think this is still the right direction,even if it's super painful. I've got Dell Xps 13,which only has USB-C ports and SD card slot. Initially you get annoyed you can't connect your usb stick,hdmi cable and etc.,but then you start thinking like screw them.There are endless variations of cables,ports and standards and it's just mad. I just hope that over the next few years we'll get to the point where it's much more unified and you don't need to carry 20 different adapters..
  - alexis_fr 7y ago
    Yes, USB-D is supposed to do that. 1 port for all applications. You will be able to daisy-chain your screens, keyboards, printers and projectors, but also power supply, and it also adds TouchID compatibility. One port to rule them all. USB-D is the future!
- randomsearch 7y ago
  I present. Adapter is a bit big but don’t carry it unless I need it. Happy with all the changes except: the keyboard is completely broken. When I first got a new air I loved the new keyboard - I really like the feel - but now I have repeated keypresses I have fallen out of love with apple.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > And if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible. If you're a semi-pro photographer you should stop wasting your time with a built-in SD card slot and get an external USB 3.1 Gen 2 card reader. Fstopper running the numbers: > Even if you don't want to spend the money on a more expensive memory card, buying a nicer ProGrade card reader is still worth it. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWhvc-UCOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWhvc-UCOA
Spooky23 7y ago
Thin is fine, but Apple has shipped nearly 5 years worth of fundamentally defective laptops. This is the reckoning. I’m glad they had the courage to hold the leader responsible.
- Bud 7y ago
  There's zero evidence that that's what happened, here.
- mstade 7y ago
  Well, my point is that design is opinionated and my opinion is clearly contrary to yours – in the past five years (and more) Apple has set the standard for what laptops should be. Thanks for proving my point! :o)
  - rurp 7y ago
    > in the past five years (and more) Apple has set the standard for what laptops should be. Setting the standard for laptops implies that other manufacturers are racing to keep pace with their changes. Fortunately (in my opinion), there has not been a giant uptick in other laptop manufacturers removing standard keyboard keys, making devices thin to the point of fragility, and requiring a myriad of dongles to perform many basic tasks.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    I love the design actually! Engineering and design need to meet to produce a product that is beautiful and functional. Unfortunately, the keyboard fell short and the limitations imposed by the design made those failures maximally painful for customers.
esolyt 7y ago
The new Macbook Air actually has TouchID without the touch bar. I actually mind the touch bar, because I like having actual keys for brightness adjusment, keyboard backlight, and volume.
- mstade 7y ago
  That’s cool, I wouldn’t mind that either because there’s nothing killer about the Touch Bar. It’s not useless either though. I use zoom daily, and the ability to just tap mute on the Touch Bar is pretty nice. Not can’t live without it nice like Touch ID, but not negligible either. There are a number of little features like that in apps that make the Touch Bar a net positive for me.
PunksATawnyFill 7y ago
USB-C is good, when Thunderbolt is integrated. I'm fine with getting rid of everything else. I have a cheapo HDMI adapter that works great. But putting the ports millimeters apart on the side of a computer that offers at least nine inches of space is idiotic: https://i.imgur.com/0HGp7O0.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0HGp7O0.jpg The new keyboard is insufferable; you might as well just go to a membrane keyboard at this point. The deletion of a dozen keys for the sake of the emoji bar is embarrassing, especially on a "pro" computer. Now programmers are supposed to step through code with a featureless strip that goes to sleep every few seconds? The crowning offense is not even OFFERING the option of real keys, when the "consumer" Air has them. The big trackpad is a mistake because the heels of your hands are in contact with it all the time, necessitating who knows how much spurious-touch-rejection logic that simply fails occasionally and sends your cursor to some other part of the screen or document... or your hand simply executes an unintended click or right-click. Another baffling failure: Why doesn't the Pencil work on those giant touchpads? Now THAT would be useful!
cmiles74 7y ago
The current batch of laptops is too brittle, in my opinion. They should be able to function with a small amount of crumbs, liquid or other detritus.
emehrkay 7y ago
My only beef with usb-c is that there doesn't seem to exist a hub that offers multiple usb-c ports with via a single usb-c port. Until those are mainstream, I feel that usb-c is inferior to a/b.
acomjean 7y ago
My experience with usb c is from people in my lab with usb c only MacBooks, looking to move files and borrow one of our extra drives, realize they don’t have the ubiquitous usb a and look for other solutions. Or trying to plug into a projector that has hdmi and 6 adapters but no usb c yet, then trying to get their presentation to another notebook.. I’ll keep my multi port Mac Pro till it falls apart at this point
- sooheon 7y ago
  The thing is every tech transition has these compatibility issues, and people just make a choice whether to stand ahead or behind the curve.
Fomite 7y ago
I'm with you. I'm mildly annoyed with the TouchBar, but willing to accept it for Touch ID, and as for the rest - I'm not finding it nearly as grating as I thought I would, and a worthwhile sacrifice for the lower weight.
jwr 7y ago
Yes, it's definitely divisive. In my case, I do need a reliable keyboard, I do not have a single USB-C device around me that I can connect (while having literally tens of USB-A devices), I do not need or want the touchbar, I want the function keys, and I don't mind the extra thickness. The new macbooks make all the wrong compromises for me. So, if it is divisive, why not make both kinds? Why does there need to be a single compromise across the entire line? I hate the fact that I am reduced to living in fear of what will be taken away the next time they present a computer. I find it bizarre that we have pretty much accepted that we need to give something up for the "new thin and light", and we just wonder what it's going to be and explain to ourselves how we didn't really need all those USB ports or headphone ports after all. Also, magsafe saved my bacon many times, and I'm looking at a USB-C connector on my wife's laptop and its so worn out that the plug is almost falling out. Magsafe was a much better solution.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  If you're living in fear maybe you should stop being their customer.
  - jwr 7y ago
    Oh, I would really like to! Believe me, I'm considering it regularly. And yet: nobody else comes close in terms of providing me with a complete ecosystem where I can get things done. And I do know: I regularly use both Windows and Linux. I wish there was a serious competitor to Apple.
- mstade 7y ago
  > So, if it is divisive, why not make both kinds? Why does there need to be a single compromise across the entire line? I’m guessing because it’s probably cheaper and easier to produce fewer models, and not enough benefit to producing more. It obviously rubs some people the wrong way, but perhaps not nearly enough, no matter how vocal they may be.
  - alexis_fr 7y ago
underwater 7y ago
A Pro device should be like a truck, not a sleek sports car. Having ports available when you need them, not running out of battery, having a keyboard optimised for comfort and accuracy, and having a screen that is visible in all lighting conditions are core requirements for a device that is there to enable you do work. Most changes to the MacBook Pro have been driven by aesthetics and minimalism.
- mstade 7y ago
  Keeping with the car metaphor: your mileage may vary I guess. I'm getting great mileage out of my MBP, with none of those issues you mention, so I guess the sports car edition is fine with me. That's why I'd love to see a proper survey on this, because I never hear these complaints from people I meet, only online.
- wizardforhire 7y ago
  Totally! People are always commenting on how old my systems are. Last half of 2012 15” and an iPhone 5s... I just shrug and say “last of the Jobs models” and then I play this clip for them. https://youtube.com/watch?v=EK2ijfxqlnY https://youtube.com/watch?v=EK2ijfxqlnY
vlunkr 7y ago
That's funny, because nearly all the Apple fans I know (myself included) are extremely jaded with their laptops since the touchbar model came out. Throwing out the ports and making the keyboard awful in favor of becoming thinner doesn't exactly read as a "Pro" product to me.
sytelus 7y ago
If you have to worry about your dongles all the time then the point of being thin and lightweight is pretty much lost.
- mstade 7y ago
  I really don't worry about dongles though, what gave you that idea? I have a few cables, and I do have a couple of dongles but never really use them so mostly they're spending time in a box somewhere.
gilbetron 7y ago
Apple fan for 30+ years, been using them professionally since they switched to unix under the hood. Swapped my 2014 macbook out for a 2018 model. It is terrible in so many ways. Three months ago I switched to a Dell running Ubuntu, and haven't been this happy since the 2014 macbook ;) The keyboard is the worst keyboard I've used in at least 15 years, the giant touchpad pisses me off constantly with no benefit, the OS just copies other people now, the touchbar is the least offensive thing but still stupid, and the loss of the magsafe is a bummer. Huge disappointment. But, that's ok, turns out Ubuntu as a desktop is amazing, and so I'm really happy with the switch! Every professional developer I know that has a mac is refusing to switch away from their previous model (or older) macbook.
soperj 7y ago
What does the thinness of the device actually get you though? I know most very thin laptops are no lighter than my much thicker x230, but come with way less expandability, crummier keyboard, and less ports. What does the thinness get you when they weight the same?
- mstade 7y ago
  I work pretty much exclusively on my 13" laptop. I carry it with me pretty much wherever I go. It being thin and light is crucial to fitting it in my bag, and not being uncomfortable to lug around. The current form factor is pretty much perfect to me – slips right into its dedicated slot in my bag, and the weight it adds to my bag is really no biggie. I wouldn't mind if it was lighter, but it's damn near perfect to me at this point.
jorvi 7y ago
> I like the new keyboard I can get with the rest but stating that is absolute insanity to me. It has something like a 10-20% failure rate on a medium timeline.
- __david__ 7y ago
  It's not insanity, it just depends what they were talking about. Personally I like the feel of the keyboard and find it's quite nice to type on, but I don't like the reliability issues. I've already had mine replaced once, and there's nothing preventing the replacement from failing again at some point. It's very easy to brush aside the failure rate until it happens to you.
- mstade 7y ago
  Well, mileage may vary and all that but my keyboard has a 0% failure rate so far. Knocks on wood.
  - TheOtherDave 7y ago
    Don’t do that... it’ll knock wood particles into the air, which might settle in the butterfly mechanism and jam up a key.
dpkonofa 7y ago
I'm the same way and most of the people I know IRL are the same way. It seems like it's only online that I hear people complain about the keyboard and the lack of ports. The biggest complaint online that I see is the physical escape key (and I'm even a developer and don't care about it) and I have yet to meet a single person who has that complaint.
- inopinatus 7y ago
  > I have yet to meet a single person who has that complaint We haven't met, but hi. I have that complaint. The omission of a physical escape key is the reason I cancelled my MacBook Pro order. I tried training myself on my MacBook with a remapped Caps Lock but to no avail. Vim habits die hard.
  - dpkonofa 7y ago
    That's completely contrary to my point. You're still just a random person online from Hacker News. The vast majority of people that aren't on a niche website like this have no issues with the keyboard. I haven't gotten a single complaint related to the keyboards from our employees using MacBooks. In fact, overall, we get far less complaints about the MacBooks, in general, than we do with our Dell and HP laptops.
    - inopinatus 7y ago
      None of that invalidates my experience.
      - dpkonofa 7y ago
        I never said it does. I just said that only a minority of niche customers actually hold the same opinion as you. The vast majority of people are perfectly happy with both the new keyboards and the lack of a physical escape key. You don't prefer it but that has to mean that you're a minority of the population that buys their products.
flensortow 7y ago
I would like to see exactly zero regression from the current design. I think there is a very tiny but vocal minority, particularly in the tech community, who have issues with it. Most people have few complaints if you are talking about the most recent keyboard. It may still have some room for improvement but the last couple generations of butterfly keyboard have improved each step of the way.
Angostura 7y ago
The boldest move at the moment would be "We believe that thinness for the sake of it, is dead as a trend, today we are announcing a new direction that will see us build beautiful products that are nonetheless expandable, repairable, green"
miles 7y ago
> It’d be interesting to see the results of a survey on this I think ... I like the new keyboard Gruber put it rather succinctly: "These keyboards are the biggest mistake in Apple’s history." https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/04/26/johnston-macbook-keyboard https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/04/26/johnston-macboo... There has certainly been more criticism than praise for the butterfly keyboard: The New MacBook Keyboard is Ruining My Life https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is... Unreliable MacBook Pro Keyboards https://mjtsai.com/blog/2017/10/18/unreliable-macbook-pro-keyboards/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2017/10/18/unreliable-macbook-pro-ke... The 2018 MacBook Keyboards Have the Same Old Problems https://mjtsai.com/blog/2018/10/16/the-2018-macbook-keyboards-have-the-same-old-problems/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2018/10/16/the-2018-macbook-keyboard... Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall With the Macbook Pro Keyboard https://ifixit.org/blog/10229/macbook-pro-keyboard/ https://ifixit.org/blog/10229/macbook-pro-keyboard/ An ode to Apple’s awful MacBook keyboard https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac-keyboard/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac... Appl Still Hasn’t Fixd Its MacBook Kyboad Problm https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem/ https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-mac... Apple owes everyone an apology and it should start with me, specifically https://theoutline.com/post/7315/apple-keyboards-still-suck-insanely-bad https://theoutline.com/post/7315/apple-keyboards-still-suck-... Nearly half of the third-gen Apple butterfly keyboards at Basecamp have failed https://www.techrepublic.com/article/nearly-half-of-the-third-gen-apple-butterfly-keyboards-at-basecamp-have-failed/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/nearly-half-of-the-thir... Apple's MacBook Pro Keyboard Replacement Won't Fix Your Laptop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvsi2e3M5Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvsi2e3M5Ek Why Is Tim Cook Hiding His Fix For The Embarrassing MacBook Problems https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2019/04/25/apple-macbook-pro-butterfly-keyboard-embarrasing-problems-genius-bar-quick-fix-repair/#4bc1ef566e43 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2019/04/25/apple-mac... Judge Rules Apple Must Answer for Failing to Disclose MacBook Keyboard Problems https://www.idropnews.com/news/judge-rules-apple-must-answer-for-failing-to-disclose-macbook-keyboard-problems/103689/ https://www.idropnews.com/news/judge-rules-apple-must-answer... Apple's Butterfly Keyboard Continues to Plague MacBook Owners https://ifixit.org/blog/14776/apples-butterfly-keyboard-continues-to-plague-macbook-owners/ https://ifixit.org/blog/14776/apples-butterfly-keyboard-cont... MacBook Pro Keyboard Failures: Why Apple's dust excuse is bullsh—! [Teardown + Explanations] https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/bjtyaw/macbook_pro_keyboard_failures_why_apples_dust/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/bjtyaw/macbook_pro_k...
jessewmc 7y ago
I cannot imagine defending the move to 100% usb-c ports. An iphone out of the box cannot be connected to a new mac laptop. It's complete insanity. The rest of the world isn't there yet. Every single person I know who owns a usb-c mac laptop owns a $100 dongle that they carry everywhere with them. For me being able to plug in USB type-A is a non-negotiable part of using a laptop still, 4 years after the move. Same with HDMI. I also regularly plug SD cards in. It doesn't make the laptop thinner, it makes it bulkier because the adapter is a necessity.
- mstade 7y ago
  > An iphone out of the box cannot be connected to a new mac laptop. It's complete insanity. While I disagree with pretty much everything else you said, this is 100% on point. That they haven't moved iPhones and iPads to usb-c yet, or at least include a usb-c to lightning cable in the box, is mind boggling to me.
- theturtletalks 7y ago
  The mid 2012 Macbook Pro Retina was the best Macbook. It had a HDMI port, USB-A ports, SD card reader, and a Magsafe plug that wouldn't send your Mac flying if someone ran into the cord. Mine worked well for 6 years, but it had a hidden defect where the graphics card would cause a kernel panic. Even though it was a factory defect, Apple said it was "vintage" and I was forced to upgrade. Sad part is Apple will never make a Macbook like that especially with a starting price of $1600.
  - johnminter 7y ago
    I'm still using mine. I'm seriosly thinking of moving to Linux when it is no longer working or supported by the OS. And that MagSafe adapter has saved my bacon on multiple occasions...
    - TheReveller 7y ago
      I had one too, and I went to a pixelbook instead of the new MBP. Pixelbook is awesome, form factor is great, it is so light, and now that I'm used to tap-to-click, going back to a Mac trackpad feels so clunky.
Aeolun 7y ago
I think we can have both in this case. MacBook without touch bar and with some extra ports.
x0x0 7y ago
Apple is big enough to have 2 laptops. A thin-above-all, and a mix.
- yazaddaruvala 7y ago
  Just spit balling, because we can always bikeshed names. Wouldn’t it be cool if Apple had like: - a thin-above-all laptop, called like... MacBook Lite or maybe MacBook Air - a pragmatic laptop for the professionals who need something great for work. Maybe call it like... MacBook Work or maybe MacBook Pro Too bad that is only a dream currently. I think that would be a cool future vision for Apple.
oops 7y ago
Yeah the new keyboard is great. I love how they finally got the up and down arrow keys merged into a single key. And how the Esc/F-keys are now impossible to touchtype. The difference between me using the computer and my cat sitting on it is now approaching zero and while for me this is detrimental and potentially career-ending, it is a massive step forward for cats.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
whymsicalburito 7y ago
The top comment on this thread is asking for the ports back. The majority has spoken. My workstations have become a dumpster fire of dongles and I constantly have to unplug something to use the ports for something else. The previous model was so much better.
- mstade 7y ago
  By the same logic, my comment to the original post is currently the top of all comments – does that mean the majority have rebutted in favor of the current design? Of course not. Point being: whether a design is good or not is mostly subjective, and great design is often polarizing. A more scientific survey would be interesting, but it's still fun to see all the diverse responses here.
sbov 7y ago
The macbook pro is barely a professional device. Just look at the bottom end of the specs. The macbook should be closer to the current pro, rather than this basically an air/but not an air thing they have going on. The pro should be for actual professionals, not for anyone that wants a laptop with more than just 2 cores.
- sooheon 7y ago
  You can spec it out pretty well. Why take issue with the low end as long as it goes high enough for you?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
tw04 7y ago
USB-C is great. Keyboard is horrible. I'd prefer the last gen trackpad - the new one is needlessly silly and easy to bump by accident. Touchbar is garbage and needs to go, Touch ID is great. Please give me back an sdcard reader at minimum. VGA port is probably too much to ask for but literally every conference room on the planet still has that as their default with other options being a bonus and I'm sick of accidentally leaving my adapters behind.
ImprovedSilence 7y ago
As the owner of a 15”, I agree on all points but one. I would sacrifice a little thinness for more battery life and repair ability. Love the keyboard, love the track pad, fine with usb c, meh on Touch Bar.
brynjolf 7y ago
The keyboard is flawed, Apple even admits it. Guess being ignorant is more convenient though.
waterhouse 7y ago
Surveys I found: "Is the Touch Bar a gimmick?" Among those who own it, 72% say "yes". https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/19/touch-bar-a-gimmick/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/19/touch-bar-a-gimmick/ "Does the new MacBook Pro's Touch Bar improve your workflow?" 38% say "No, I only use it for function keys it replaced", 23% say "Waiting for more app/function support", 21% say "Yes, it improves my workflow", 16% say "Other". https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/24/macbook-pro-touch-bar-poll/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/24/macbook-pro-touch-bar-poll/ Twitter poll: "Just out of interest, with @marcoarment in mind, does anybody actually like the Touch Bar of the new MacBook Pro?" "With over 1,000 responses, the results were effectively 50-50." https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/03/twitter-poll-touch-bar https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/03/twitter-poll-to...
SirHound 7y ago
I agree but I'd be happy to go back to a MacBook Air for all this.
afandian 7y ago
I hope you _can_ live without the Touch ID! I did some manual work last weekend and now my fingerprints don't work.
- swish_bob 7y ago
  I cut my finger quite badly a couple of weeks ago. Being unable to just switch my phone on as I picked it up was a whole world of annoying. It's surprising just how quickly we take these things for granted.
  - afandian 7y ago
    I use touch id on my mac (when it works) but I use the most inconvenient finger just so I don't get too acclimatised.

by mstade 7y ago

jedberg 7y ago

Nothing wrong with USB-C and the big trackpad is fine too, and I would love to have touchID on my 2015MBP. But getting rid of mag power and the USB-A ports, HDMI port, and SD card slot was a big step back. Maybe you don't ever need to present anything from your laptop, but if you talk to anyone who does, they will tell you how awful it is to not have an HDMI port. The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen. And if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible. And of course almost all accessories are still USB-A.

burtmacklin 7y ago
woe, thy name is donglelyfe
mistersquid 7y ago
To a large degree Apple is moving away from using wires altogether, and in the presentation space they appear to be doubling down on AirPlay 2. Neither advocating nor deprecating. Only observing.
- jedberg 7y ago
  Airplay 2 works great if the place you're presenting in supports it, but most places don't upgrade their equipment that often.
  - mstade 7y ago
    Screen cast dongles are pretty much a dime a dozen these days though. Maybe I’m lucky but in he past two years or so I haven’t been anywhere that still relies on hdmi for presenting on big screens. Except conferences.
    - andrewprock 7y ago
      The problem with dongles isn't the cost. It's the labor it takes to purchase, install, secure, and maintain.
      - mstade 7y ago
        You could do it surreptitiously – get a $20-30 dongle and just hook it up and hope no one fires you for it. :o)
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      Which screen cast dongles are cheap and support Air Play? I would really be interested to push for them locally.
      - mstade 7y ago
        Amazon has a bunch[0] but couldn't really vouch for any of them, I mainly use Apple TV (not just for airplay.) I've also seen these things in pretty much any electronics store I've been the past couple of years, particularly ones in touristy areas – I guess plenty of people like to cast video to hotel room TVs maybe? A buddy of mine used a dongle for his big screen pre-streaming features era TV. He mainly used it to stream games from his phone or iPad to the TV, and Netflix. I think it was chromecast though, not airplay, but same difference really. [0]: https://www.amazon.com/hdmi-airplay-dongle/s?k=hdmi+airplay+dongle https://www.amazon.com/hdmi-airplay-dongle/s?k=hdmi+airplay+...
- kelp 7y ago
  This is what we do in our office. We use airplay or a Zoom screen share. Plugging in is a last resort. I never have to do that.
  - op00to 7y ago
    Rip your battery?
    - usaphp 7y ago
      If you have access to a tv or a projector - it probably means there is a power outlet that you can use to charge your laptop
      - kelp 7y ago
        And you do need it, Zoom has a penchant for eating through battery!
crazygringo 7y ago
> The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen. Just curious why? I use mine almost every day and have never had issues. It's not an Apple-branded one though, it's "Cable Matters"... but if anything Apple adapters tend to be higher quality than third-party ones? (I also use a Cable Matters SD adapter more than once a week to transfer video and it's been working flawlessly for over a year too.)
- mattigames 7y ago
  This link should give you some clues, is one of the worst reviewed products on Apple.com https://www.apple.com/shop/reviews/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/reviews/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-a...
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    I'm not sure I'd put a lot of credibility in the reviews on apple.com. Especially for a device like a display adapter which is frequently connected to a finicky and/or cheap device like a projector or display.
    - mattigames 7y ago
      Then why so many have 5 stars on Amazon? Are people that buy apple products more likely to connect them to finicky or cheap devices?
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        No, I think that people who have had bad experiences with their adapter are more likely to go the manufacturer's website and post comments about how it didn't work for them. If Amazon wasn't a wasteland of fake reviews, I might actually trust it more than Apple's website.
        mattigames 7y ago
        So don't trust Amazon because fake reviews, don't trust Apple reviews cause users are dumb and confuse adapter issues with third-party devices issues, I think you just don't trust reviews regardless.
asark 7y ago
I think they really needed a transition design for 3-4 years that included USB-C but still had the "legacy" ports—in quotes because when they announced the C-only model I hadn't even seen a USB-C port or cable in real life yet. USB-A is nowhere near being on the way out yet. Especially when their own damn mobile devices still come with A cables. We're way into their attempt to push everything to USB-C but I went to Target to grab one for my work laptop (to be able to charge an iPhone or iPad from it) and the C cables that are anything other than C-to-A (for some android phones) are 100% Apple branded. Everything's still A and Micro-USB. A whole wall of that. USB-C? Only in a tiny Apple section. Flash drives? Mostly still A. Everything, really. Having only C continues to suck, and it looks like it will for a while. Apple's switch to C doesn't even seem to have changed things that much—everyone seems to just still do A and assume the poor Macbook users will plug in a hub or use an adapter.
- Bud 7y ago
  Stop expecting Target to carry a 2019-appropriate selection of tech. Just go to monoprice.com.
  - asark 7y ago
    Their tech is 2019 appropriate if you don't have an Apple laptop, is the thing. And they even provide some USB-C stuff for Apple devices, but only from Apple, I assume because the demand is nearly nonexistent. Just like if it were a proprietary Apple port—though I think they actually have some lightning cables from other manufacturers, at least, unlike USB-C. [EDIT] I just think they whiffed well ahead of the ball on this one, is all. No USB-C ports to 100% USB-C ports was premature. I think the percentage of their market that was like "oh good now I can plug all my USB-C stuff into this, which is most of what I have!" rounds down to zero, while all my geek friends and co-workers' reactions were closer to "so... there will be zero things in my home or office I can plug into this without an adapter? And for this I gain... maybe 1mm more of thinness?" with actual experience quickly confirming that concern as valid, as #donglelife continues without end in sight.
    - tjohns 7y ago
bradknowles 7y ago
So, on the power side of the equation, I have come to understand why they chose to go the direction they did. With the previous generation of MagSafe/MagSafe II power supplies, if the cable gets frayed, you have to replace the entire power supply. If the MagSafe connector gets hosed, you have to replace the entire power supply. Basically, if anything goes wrong beyond the AC input side, you have to replace the whole power supply. I ended up buying a whole bunch of these things over the years, so I am particularly sensitive to the amount of money I've spent. With the USB-C power supplies, if something goes wrong with the cable, you just get a new cable. If something goes wrong with the connector on the cable, you just get a new cable. The only time you need to replace the entire power supply itself is if something goes wrong internally, or if something goes wrong with the USB-C connector on the power supply. And since cables are engineered to break before cable connectors, that is much less likely. Don't get me wrong, the MagSafe connector has saved my machine on several occasions. But I understand why they want to be able to cheaply and easily replace just the cable part, because that's the part that is most likely to have hardware failures. I do wish they had figured out some way to have a standardized cable interface on the power supply itself, and a MagSafe-like connector on the other end. That would have been the best of both worlds. But failing that, I think I will grudgingly take the second-best solution, which is to have a standard USB-C connector on both ends. Now, this whole concept of mixing USB-C, USB-C Power Delivery, and Thunderbolt 3, that's a whole 'nother Gordian Knot that I really wish they had not created.
- carbocation 7y ago
  It seems like something like this could be best of both worlds: a magsafe power cable + USB-C connection: https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Charge/dp/B07MMKZ8XD/ https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Char...
- thinkling 7y ago
  > if the cable gets frayed, you have to replace the entire power supply This is true for the existing design but it would have been easy to redesign the power supply to avoid it. Just look at the other end: the wall-plug end has long been replaceable; it slides out so you can put on a different plug or a longer cable. This could be true on the MagSafe side as well -- then any Mac power supply could be used with any generation Mac, just by switching out the MagSafe/USB-C end.
msbarnett 7y ago
> The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen. FWIW, you're far better off getting a native cable with a USB-C end like [1] or [2] rather than using a dongle. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-USB-C-Supporting-Black/dp/B073H9RG9T/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-USB-C-Supporting-Black/... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-USB-C-Supporting/dp/B01J6DT070/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-USB-C-Suppo...
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  Maybe for your personal monitors. A far more annoying problem is connecting to conference room projectors. My or still has conference rooms with nothing but VGA cables plugged in to the projector.
  - dpkonofa 7y ago
    This is exactly why I'm 100% for the USB-C switch. I have 1 dongle that handles every video type to USB-C - VGA, DVI, HDMI, and even mDP. There's no reason for all 4 of those ports to be built into the computer on the off chance that I need one of them.
    - snovv_crash 7y ago
      I have the opposite perspective. I'd like my $3000 device to have all the ports I'm likely to need over the lifetime of said device. Dongles and specific adapter cables are a pain.
      - dpkonofa 7y ago
        But then we're back at the beginning of this conversation and you're saying you'd rather have a larger, bulkier, laptop that can accommodate several of these single-use ports. The entire conversation was related to why USB-C was a good/bad decision. I think it was a good decision because I have infinitely more flexibility than I'd have with what you're suggesting. Anything that needs to work over the "lifetime of said device" needs to be able to handle future technologies and having dedicated HDMI ports, for example, is not useful for that because even the HDMI spec has changed multiple times in the last few years.
threeseed 7y ago
I use two USB-C to HDMI adapters every day and never had issues. Maybe try a different manufacturer.
- xxs 7y ago
  So you are saying: having a built-in hdmi port would have been useful. There is very little reason not to have all ports - hmdi, mini display port (+display port) readily available; connected straight to the video card. There is plenty of room.
  - threeseed 7y ago
    No because I would still need a DisplayPort to HDMI dongle. I would rather just stick with the one USB-C connector.
gnachman 7y ago
> worst adapter I've ever seen I can help with that: https://www.apple.com/sg_smb_5200/shop/product/MB571Z/A/mini-displayport-to-dual-link-dvi-adapter https://www.apple.com/sg_smb_5200/shop/product/MB571Z/A/mini... Half the charm is lost without seeing the two DVI cables that plug in to it.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  It only has one DVI port and the USB-pass-through. Funny as it is, I am writing this post on a Dell 30" screen connected via this very adapter to a 2015 MB Pro. Yes, this was one of the worst contraptions of a dongle ever made, but in this case, it was the only way to create dual-link DVI ouptut (needed for resolutions larger than 1920x1080) from a Displayport.
mstade 7y ago
> Maybe you don't ever need to present anything from your laptop [...] I do, almost daily. I even bought the HDMI dongle thinking I might need it when doing presentations outside of my usual workplaces but I have literally never used it. The presentation problem was solved years ago by airplay and chromecast, and the only thing I use HDMI for these days is to hook up things permanently, not temporarily. I did think at first that I’d miss MagSafe, but I’ve never had an issue with the cable sticking in the port such that I yank my laptop of the table, and I’ve yanked that cable out a number of times. As another commenter rightly pointed out as well, the move from MagSafe actually meant when my cable got damaged because someone put a chair on it I didn’t have to swap the whole power supply, just the cable. Huge win and since I had extra I could solve it right then and there. I’m no photographer though, so can’t really say for the SD thing. Maybe that does suck.
matwood 7y ago
> Maybe you don't ever need to present anything from your laptop I present all the time, but I can't remember the last time I had to plug in. The problem with trying to plug in is that the other side could be anything from VGA to DP. Should VGA ports be stuck back onto the MBP? > And if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible. What about the CF, XQD, or mini-SD slot? I'm an enthusiast photographer (maybe even semi-pro as I have been paid for my pics before), and soon I will not have a need for an SD card slot. > mag power Mag safe was nice, but I recently took a trip where I needed a single power brick and cable for my MBP and iPad. Once the iPhone goes USB-C it will make traveling even that much easier.
- mstade 7y ago
  > Mag safe was nice, but I recently took a trip where I needed a single power brick and cable for my MBP and iPad. Once the iPhone goes USB-C it will make traveling even that much easier. I didn’t even realize how much this would matter to me until I went traveling. All of a sudden I don’t even need anything but the brick, because I’ll just either hook it up to my phone directly with a ubs-c to lightning cable (and it charges crazy fast) or I’ll use the laptop as a hub. I still carry a sugar cube with me just in case, but I never use it really.
- lloeki 7y ago
  Get a USB-C Lightning cable. One brick, two cables, and you can charge the iPhone on the other devices. Yes it’d be better if the iPhone was USB-C too but that basically has been my strategy: get a set of USB-C to A/B/Mini/Micro/Micro3/HDMI/Lightning cables (not that I lug all of them around, they’re merely plugged into my accessories). There exist USB-C magnet thingies too.
- 886 7y ago
  Agreed. I'm an enthusiast photographer and previously semi prod. The SD card slot is nice to have some times, but most of the time I use a dedicated card reader for CF, SD, and micro-SD cards.
dpkonofa 7y ago
>how awful it is to not have an HDMI port. Disagree wholeheartedly. I bought a USB-C to Video adapter from Amazon that has DVI, VGA, HDMI, and mDP and it only takes up one space on my MacBook and the only time I ever need to use it is when I'm presenting so I can just keep it in my laptop bag. That also means that I don't have to worry about what tech is being used at the place I'm presenting because I have all the options covered as opposed to just having 1 port or multiple ports on my machine. At my desk, I have a USB-C hub that's connected to both monitors, storage, power, and my keyboard/mouse and it's also 1 cable and 1 slot on the MacBook. I can hook either up to whatever port on whatever side I want to. The flexibility is way more worthwhile than a dedicated HDMI port to me.
- Domenic_S 7y ago
  I get the appeal. At my (home) desk, I have the same (minus power), except it's Thunderbolt, which my 2014 MBP has. For a couple beautiful years I could switch monitor/headset/kb/mouse between work and home laptops with 1 simple plug. Now that the work lappy is USB C though things aren't simple anymore.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    Do you have a link to the device? I'm curious about the specs.
    - Domenic_S 7y ago
      the hub? it's lg thunderbolt monitor with usb hub.
  - thirdsun 7y ago
    Wouldn't an USB-C enabled monitor provide the same functionality? Whenever you plug in either laptop the USB-C connection would provide video, an USB hub (on the monitor) and even charge your laptop. What am I missing here? Well, unless you don't use an external display. And in that case why not just get an USB-C hub with video out? Your Thunderbolt-enabled Macbook should work regardless.
fortran77 7y ago
Pro cameras us CF / CFast cards, so the SD slot won't really help them. It's probably OK not to have it wrt the pro market. https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/learn/education/topics/article/2018/July/EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-and-CFast-Cards/EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-and-CFast-Cards https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/learn/educ...
- dbspin 7y ago
  Define 'pro'. My Sony A7iii uses SD cards. My Blackmagic pocket cinema writes to USB-C. If anything C-Fast is a dying medium. SD cards are tremendously cheaper, and at this point likely as fast.
  - fortran77 7y ago
    Both Canon and Nikon "pro" cameras take CF cards: http://d810.org/recommended-sd-and-cf-media-cards-for-nikon-d810/ http://d810.org/recommended-sd-and-cf-media-cards-for-nikon-... I agree with you that it's pointless to do that in 2019, but that doesn't change the facts.
    - petepete 7y ago
      The D810 came out in 2014, Nikon have since favoured XQD over CF. The D5 was available with both, but the D500 and D850 both take an SD and XQD card - and their new mirrorless line is XQD only. Of course, the next CF standard, CFexpress, is XQD-shaped and devices will be backward compatible.
reaperducer 7y ago
how awful it is to not have an HDMI port Seriously not awful at all. When I do presentations in my department's conference room, I just AirPlay to the AppleTV connected to the projector. It was a great solution because it allows anyone on the team to do presentations. All they have to do is mirror their screen and bring their mouse or trackpad into the conference room. It's been a godsend. If I have to do presentations in other buildings on campus (about every other week), I bring my USB-C to HDMI dongle. It's super small, weighs nothing, and always works. I've heard that there are some off-brand USB-C to HDMI adapters from Amazon that are flaky, but the Belkin one that the IT department got me is rock solid. I've used it probably 30 times so far. I doubt anyone who really had to do presentations minds carrying around a tiny dongle, compared to all the other things they'll bring to a presentation. if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible The pro photographers in my company's Communications department all say they hate built-in SD card readers. They all use standalone units. I don't know why, though. I'll have to ask. And of course almost all accessories are still USB-A. That's the same moaning people did about parallel and serial ports.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > When I do presentations in my department's conference room, I just AirPlay to the AppleTV connected to the projector. That's, uh, great if there happens to be an expensive AppleTV connected to the projector.
  - throwaway9980 7y ago
    AppleTV, the ultimate dongle. They’re small enough that you could carry one with you and use it as your HDMI adapter.
  - hamandcheese 7y ago
    An Apple TV is not expensive compared to the cost of a conference room.
    - patmcc 7y ago
moon2 7y ago
Back when they launched the Macbook Air, we also thought having no DVD drive was a big step back. It took some time, but other companies started removing the DVD drives from their laptops as well. Maybe technology moves around Apple after all. If your Macbook does not have a SD Card slot, then SD Cards will soon be dead. Having a single USB-C, though, is still frustrating.
- killjoywashere 7y ago
  I don't recall a lot of people crying about the loss of a DVD drive. That was the moment where everyone outside techdom was forced to realize that everything goes over the network. Also, as someone who still has a iMac with an optical drive, their failure rate (Apple or any other brand) has always been atrocious.
  - fwip 7y ago
    I think the bigger outcry than the DVD was the removal of the Ethernet port. (Which was also overblown).
- test1235 7y ago
  >SD Cards will soon be dead. Not a chance - professional photographers won't be ditching their cameras anytime soon.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    Professional photographers should (IMHO) either shoot tethered or get an external USB 3.1 (>5Gb/s) external card reader. Fstopper recently did some quick benchmarks, and the transfer times were significantly faster: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWhvc-UCOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWhvc-UCOA
- tarsinge 7y ago
  Also remember the huge outcry when the iMac didn’t come with a floppy drive. One or two years after USB keys became ubiquitous.
SkyMarshal 7y ago
>Nothing wrong with USB-C and the big trackpad is fine too, and I would love to have touchID on my 2015MBP. But getting rid of mag power and the USB-A ports, HDMI port, and SD card slot was a big step back. All of the above plus a thicker battery. 95% of the time I use my MBPr plugged in, but the few times I need to run it on battery power it would be nice to have longer than 2hr run time (late 2013 MBPr 15" w/ Iris Pro/GeForce GT 750M and brand new battery).
- kalleboo 7y ago
  The 2013 MBPr 15" models have the largest li-ion battery allowed to be brought onto an airplane by the FAA, so you're not going to get anything bigger than that. My complaint is that they've made the batteries smaller than that maximum on the new models (starting 2016) At least with USB-C Macs you can bring a separate standard USB PD battery pack and charge off that. There was no such option for the MagSafe Macs (there was a third party company that made one but Apple sued them to death)
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
The users who want/need all those ports are pretty niche, even among power user developers and graphic designers. I think Apple did their market research on this.
usaphp 7y ago
I prefer the ability to easy replace my usb c cable if it gets damaged, compared to buying a new 80$ brick with MagSafe. Also the ability to charge my laptop from either side is awesome too. Also once iPhone new iPhone will have a type c charging you will be able to use a cable from your MacBook to charge your phone, so you will only need to carry MacBook charger without worrying about a separate cable for your iPhone
cosmodisk 7y ago
I'm not an Apple fan and I never had any of their products, however I think this is still the right direction,even if it's super painful. I've got Dell Xps 13,which only has USB-C ports and SD card slot. Initially you get annoyed you can't connect your usb stick,hdmi cable and etc.,but then you start thinking like screw them.There are endless variations of cables,ports and standards and it's just mad. I just hope that over the next few years we'll get to the point where it's much more unified and you don't need to carry 20 different adapters..
- alexis_fr 7y ago
  Yes, USB-D is supposed to do that. 1 port for all applications. You will be able to daisy-chain your screens, keyboards, printers and projectors, but also power supply, and it also adds TouchID compatibility. One port to rule them all. USB-D is the future!
randomsearch 7y ago
I present. Adapter is a bit big but don’t carry it unless I need it. Happy with all the changes except: the keyboard is completely broken. When I first got a new air I loved the new keyboard - I really like the feel - but now I have repeated keypresses I have fallen out of love with apple.
throw0101a 7y ago
> And if you're a semi-pro photographer, the lack of an SD card slot is terrible. If you're a semi-pro photographer you should stop wasting your time with a built-in SD card slot and get an external USB 3.1 Gen 2 card reader. Fstopper running the numbers: > Even if you don't want to spend the money on a more expensive memory card, buying a nicer ProGrade card reader is still worth it. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWhvc-UCOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWhvc-UCOA

Spooky23 7y ago

Thin is fine, but Apple has shipped nearly 5 years worth of fundamentally defective laptops. This is the reckoning. I’m glad they had the courage to hold the leader responsible.

Bud 7y ago
There's zero evidence that that's what happened, here.
mstade 7y ago
Well, my point is that design is opinionated and my opinion is clearly contrary to yours – in the past five years (and more) Apple has set the standard for what laptops should be. Thanks for proving my point! :o)
- rurp 7y ago
  > in the past five years (and more) Apple has set the standard for what laptops should be. Setting the standard for laptops implies that other manufacturers are racing to keep pace with their changes. Fortunately (in my opinion), there has not been a giant uptick in other laptop manufacturers removing standard keyboard keys, making devices thin to the point of fragility, and requiring a myriad of dongles to perform many basic tasks.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  I love the design actually! Engineering and design need to meet to produce a product that is beautiful and functional. Unfortunately, the keyboard fell short and the limitations imposed by the design made those failures maximally painful for customers.

esolyt 7y ago

The new Macbook Air actually has TouchID without the touch bar. I actually mind the touch bar, because I like having actual keys for brightness adjusment, keyboard backlight, and volume.

mstade 7y ago
That’s cool, I wouldn’t mind that either because there’s nothing killer about the Touch Bar. It’s not useless either though. I use zoom daily, and the ability to just tap mute on the Touch Bar is pretty nice. Not can’t live without it nice like Touch ID, but not negligible either. There are a number of little features like that in apps that make the Touch Bar a net positive for me.

PunksATawnyFill 7y ago

USB-C is good, when Thunderbolt is integrated. I'm fine with getting rid of everything else. I have a cheapo HDMI adapter that works great. But putting the ports millimeters apart on the side of a computer that offers at least nine inches of space is idiotic: https://i.imgur.com/0HGp7O0.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0HGp7O0.jpg The new keyboard is insufferable; you might as well just go to a membrane keyboard at this point. The deletion of a dozen keys for the sake of the emoji bar is embarrassing, especially on a "pro" computer. Now programmers are supposed to step through code with a featureless strip that goes to sleep every few seconds? The crowning offense is not even OFFERING the option of real keys, when the "consumer" Air has them. The big trackpad is a mistake because the heels of your hands are in contact with it all the time, necessitating who knows how much spurious-touch-rejection logic that simply fails occasionally and sends your cursor to some other part of the screen or document... or your hand simply executes an unintended click or right-click. Another baffling failure: Why doesn't the Pencil work on those giant touchpads? Now THAT would be useful!

cmiles74 7y ago

The current batch of laptops is too brittle, in my opinion. They should be able to function with a small amount of crumbs, liquid or other detritus.

emehrkay 7y ago

My only beef with usb-c is that there doesn't seem to exist a hub that offers multiple usb-c ports with via a single usb-c port. Until those are mainstream, I feel that usb-c is inferior to a/b.

acomjean 7y ago

My experience with usb c is from people in my lab with usb c only MacBooks, looking to move files and borrow one of our extra drives, realize they don’t have the ubiquitous usb a and look for other solutions. Or trying to plug into a projector that has hdmi and 6 adapters but no usb c yet, then trying to get their presentation to another notebook.. I’ll keep my multi port Mac Pro till it falls apart at this point

sooheon 7y ago
The thing is every tech transition has these compatibility issues, and people just make a choice whether to stand ahead or behind the curve.

Fomite 7y ago

I'm with you. I'm mildly annoyed with the TouchBar, but willing to accept it for Touch ID, and as for the rest - I'm not finding it nearly as grating as I thought I would, and a worthwhile sacrifice for the lower weight.

jwr 7y ago

Yes, it's definitely divisive. In my case, I do need a reliable keyboard, I do not have a single USB-C device around me that I can connect (while having literally tens of USB-A devices), I do not need or want the touchbar, I want the function keys, and I don't mind the extra thickness. The new macbooks make all the wrong compromises for me. So, if it is divisive, why not make both kinds? Why does there need to be a single compromise across the entire line? I hate the fact that I am reduced to living in fear of what will be taken away the next time they present a computer. I find it bizarre that we have pretty much accepted that we need to give something up for the "new thin and light", and we just wonder what it's going to be and explain to ourselves how we didn't really need all those USB ports or headphone ports after all. Also, magsafe saved my bacon many times, and I'm looking at a USB-C connector on my wife's laptop and its so worn out that the plug is almost falling out. Magsafe was a much better solution.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
If you're living in fear maybe you should stop being their customer.
- jwr 7y ago
  Oh, I would really like to! Believe me, I'm considering it regularly. And yet: nobody else comes close in terms of providing me with a complete ecosystem where I can get things done. And I do know: I regularly use both Windows and Linux. I wish there was a serious competitor to Apple.
mstade 7y ago
> So, if it is divisive, why not make both kinds? Why does there need to be a single compromise across the entire line? I’m guessing because it’s probably cheaper and easier to produce fewer models, and not enough benefit to producing more. It obviously rubs some people the wrong way, but perhaps not nearly enough, no matter how vocal they may be.
- alexis_fr 7y ago

underwater 7y ago

A Pro device should be like a truck, not a sleek sports car. Having ports available when you need them, not running out of battery, having a keyboard optimised for comfort and accuracy, and having a screen that is visible in all lighting conditions are core requirements for a device that is there to enable you do work. Most changes to the MacBook Pro have been driven by aesthetics and minimalism.

mstade 7y ago
Keeping with the car metaphor: your mileage may vary I guess. I'm getting great mileage out of my MBP, with none of those issues you mention, so I guess the sports car edition is fine with me. That's why I'd love to see a proper survey on this, because I never hear these complaints from people I meet, only online.
wizardforhire 7y ago
Totally! People are always commenting on how old my systems are. Last half of 2012 15” and an iPhone 5s... I just shrug and say “last of the Jobs models” and then I play this clip for them. https://youtube.com/watch?v=EK2ijfxqlnY https://youtube.com/watch?v=EK2ijfxqlnY

vlunkr 7y ago

That's funny, because nearly all the Apple fans I know (myself included) are extremely jaded with their laptops since the touchbar model came out. Throwing out the ports and making the keyboard awful in favor of becoming thinner doesn't exactly read as a "Pro" product to me.

sytelus 7y ago

If you have to worry about your dongles all the time then the point of being thin and lightweight is pretty much lost.

mstade 7y ago
I really don't worry about dongles though, what gave you that idea? I have a few cables, and I do have a couple of dongles but never really use them so mostly they're spending time in a box somewhere.

gilbetron 7y ago

Apple fan for 30+ years, been using them professionally since they switched to unix under the hood. Swapped my 2014 macbook out for a 2018 model. It is terrible in so many ways. Three months ago I switched to a Dell running Ubuntu, and haven't been this happy since the 2014 macbook ;) The keyboard is the worst keyboard I've used in at least 15 years, the giant touchpad pisses me off constantly with no benefit, the OS just copies other people now, the touchbar is the least offensive thing but still stupid, and the loss of the magsafe is a bummer. Huge disappointment. But, that's ok, turns out Ubuntu as a desktop is amazing, and so I'm really happy with the switch! Every professional developer I know that has a mac is refusing to switch away from their previous model (or older) macbook.

soperj 7y ago

What does the thinness of the device actually get you though? I know most very thin laptops are no lighter than my much thicker x230, but come with way less expandability, crummier keyboard, and less ports. What does the thinness get you when they weight the same?

mstade 7y ago
I work pretty much exclusively on my 13" laptop. I carry it with me pretty much wherever I go. It being thin and light is crucial to fitting it in my bag, and not being uncomfortable to lug around. The current form factor is pretty much perfect to me – slips right into its dedicated slot in my bag, and the weight it adds to my bag is really no biggie. I wouldn't mind if it was lighter, but it's damn near perfect to me at this point.

jorvi 7y ago

> I like the new keyboard I can get with the rest but stating that is absolute insanity to me. It has something like a 10-20% failure rate on a medium timeline.

__david__ 7y ago
It's not insanity, it just depends what they were talking about. Personally I like the feel of the keyboard and find it's quite nice to type on, but I don't like the reliability issues. I've already had mine replaced once, and there's nothing preventing the replacement from failing again at some point. It's very easy to brush aside the failure rate until it happens to you.
mstade 7y ago
Well, mileage may vary and all that but my keyboard has a 0% failure rate so far. Knocks on wood.
- TheOtherDave 7y ago
  Don’t do that... it’ll knock wood particles into the air, which might settle in the butterfly mechanism and jam up a key.

dpkonofa 7y ago

I'm the same way and most of the people I know IRL are the same way. It seems like it's only online that I hear people complain about the keyboard and the lack of ports. The biggest complaint online that I see is the physical escape key (and I'm even a developer and don't care about it) and I have yet to meet a single person who has that complaint.

inopinatus 7y ago
> I have yet to meet a single person who has that complaint We haven't met, but hi. I have that complaint. The omission of a physical escape key is the reason I cancelled my MacBook Pro order. I tried training myself on my MacBook with a remapped Caps Lock but to no avail. Vim habits die hard.
- dpkonofa 7y ago
  That's completely contrary to my point. You're still just a random person online from Hacker News. The vast majority of people that aren't on a niche website like this have no issues with the keyboard. I haven't gotten a single complaint related to the keyboards from our employees using MacBooks. In fact, overall, we get far less complaints about the MacBooks, in general, than we do with our Dell and HP laptops.
  - inopinatus 7y ago
    None of that invalidates my experience.
    - dpkonofa 7y ago
      I never said it does. I just said that only a minority of niche customers actually hold the same opinion as you. The vast majority of people are perfectly happy with both the new keyboards and the lack of a physical escape key. You don't prefer it but that has to mean that you're a minority of the population that buys their products.

flensortow 7y ago

I would like to see exactly zero regression from the current design. I think there is a very tiny but vocal minority, particularly in the tech community, who have issues with it. Most people have few complaints if you are talking about the most recent keyboard. It may still have some room for improvement but the last couple generations of butterfly keyboard have improved each step of the way.

Angostura 7y ago

The boldest move at the moment would be "We believe that thinness for the sake of it, is dead as a trend, today we are announcing a new direction that will see us build beautiful products that are nonetheless expandable, repairable, green"

miles 7y ago

> It’d be interesting to see the results of a survey on this I think ... I like the new keyboard Gruber put it rather succinctly: "These keyboards are the biggest mistake in Apple’s history." https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/04/26/johnston-macbook-keyboard https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/04/26/johnston-macboo... There has certainly been more criticism than praise for the butterfly keyboard: The New MacBook Keyboard is Ruining My Life https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is... Unreliable MacBook Pro Keyboards https://mjtsai.com/blog/2017/10/18/unreliable-macbook-pro-keyboards/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2017/10/18/unreliable-macbook-pro-ke... The 2018 MacBook Keyboards Have the Same Old Problems https://mjtsai.com/blog/2018/10/16/the-2018-macbook-keyboards-have-the-same-old-problems/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2018/10/16/the-2018-macbook-keyboard... Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall With the Macbook Pro Keyboard https://ifixit.org/blog/10229/macbook-pro-keyboard/ https://ifixit.org/blog/10229/macbook-pro-keyboard/ An ode to Apple’s awful MacBook keyboard https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac-keyboard/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac... Appl Still Hasn’t Fixd Its MacBook Kyboad Problm https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem/ https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-mac... Apple owes everyone an apology and it should start with me, specifically https://theoutline.com/post/7315/apple-keyboards-still-suck-insanely-bad https://theoutline.com/post/7315/apple-keyboards-still-suck-... Nearly half of the third-gen Apple butterfly keyboards at Basecamp have failed https://www.techrepublic.com/article/nearly-half-of-the-third-gen-apple-butterfly-keyboards-at-basecamp-have-failed/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/nearly-half-of-the-thir... Apple's MacBook Pro Keyboard Replacement Won't Fix Your Laptop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvsi2e3M5Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvsi2e3M5Ek Why Is Tim Cook Hiding His Fix For The Embarrassing MacBook Problems https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2019/04/25/apple-macbook-pro-butterfly-keyboard-embarrasing-problems-genius-bar-quick-fix-repair/#4bc1ef566e43 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2019/04/25/apple-mac... Judge Rules Apple Must Answer for Failing to Disclose MacBook Keyboard Problems https://www.idropnews.com/news/judge-rules-apple-must-answer-for-failing-to-disclose-macbook-keyboard-problems/103689/ https://www.idropnews.com/news/judge-rules-apple-must-answer... Apple's Butterfly Keyboard Continues to Plague MacBook Owners https://ifixit.org/blog/14776/apples-butterfly-keyboard-continues-to-plague-macbook-owners/ https://ifixit.org/blog/14776/apples-butterfly-keyboard-cont... MacBook Pro Keyboard Failures: Why Apple's dust excuse is bullsh—! [Teardown + Explanations] https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/bjtyaw/macbook_pro_keyboard_failures_why_apples_dust/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/bjtyaw/macbook_pro_k...

jessewmc 7y ago

I cannot imagine defending the move to 100% usb-c ports. An iphone out of the box cannot be connected to a new mac laptop. It's complete insanity. The rest of the world isn't there yet. Every single person I know who owns a usb-c mac laptop owns a $100 dongle that they carry everywhere with them. For me being able to plug in USB type-A is a non-negotiable part of using a laptop still, 4 years after the move. Same with HDMI. I also regularly plug SD cards in. It doesn't make the laptop thinner, it makes it bulkier because the adapter is a necessity.

mstade 7y ago
> An iphone out of the box cannot be connected to a new mac laptop. It's complete insanity. While I disagree with pretty much everything else you said, this is 100% on point. That they haven't moved iPhones and iPads to usb-c yet, or at least include a usb-c to lightning cable in the box, is mind boggling to me.
theturtletalks 7y ago
The mid 2012 Macbook Pro Retina was the best Macbook. It had a HDMI port, USB-A ports, SD card reader, and a Magsafe plug that wouldn't send your Mac flying if someone ran into the cord. Mine worked well for 6 years, but it had a hidden defect where the graphics card would cause a kernel panic. Even though it was a factory defect, Apple said it was "vintage" and I was forced to upgrade. Sad part is Apple will never make a Macbook like that especially with a starting price of $1600.
- johnminter 7y ago
  I'm still using mine. I'm seriosly thinking of moving to Linux when it is no longer working or supported by the OS. And that MagSafe adapter has saved my bacon on multiple occasions...
  - TheReveller 7y ago
    I had one too, and I went to a pixelbook instead of the new MBP. Pixelbook is awesome, form factor is great, it is so light, and now that I'm used to tap-to-click, going back to a Mac trackpad feels so clunky.

Aeolun 7y ago

I think we can have both in this case. MacBook without touch bar and with some extra ports.

x0x0 7y ago

Apple is big enough to have 2 laptops. A thin-above-all, and a mix.

yazaddaruvala 7y ago
Just spit balling, because we can always bikeshed names. Wouldn’t it be cool if Apple had like: - a thin-above-all laptop, called like... MacBook Lite or maybe MacBook Air - a pragmatic laptop for the professionals who need something great for work. Maybe call it like... MacBook Work or maybe MacBook Pro Too bad that is only a dream currently. I think that would be a cool future vision for Apple.

oops 7y ago

Yeah the new keyboard is great. I love how they finally got the up and down arrow keys merged into a single key. And how the Esc/F-keys are now impossible to touchtype. The difference between me using the computer and my cat sitting on it is now approaching zero and while for me this is detrimental and potentially career-ending, it is a massive step forward for cats.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

whymsicalburito 7y ago

The top comment on this thread is asking for the ports back. The majority has spoken. My workstations have become a dumpster fire of dongles and I constantly have to unplug something to use the ports for something else. The previous model was so much better.

mstade 7y ago
By the same logic, my comment to the original post is currently the top of all comments – does that mean the majority have rebutted in favor of the current design? Of course not. Point being: whether a design is good or not is mostly subjective, and great design is often polarizing. A more scientific survey would be interesting, but it's still fun to see all the diverse responses here.

sbov 7y ago

The macbook pro is barely a professional device. Just look at the bottom end of the specs. The macbook should be closer to the current pro, rather than this basically an air/but not an air thing they have going on. The pro should be for actual professionals, not for anyone that wants a laptop with more than just 2 cores.

sooheon 7y ago
You can spec it out pretty well. Why take issue with the low end as long as it goes high enough for you?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

tw04 7y ago

USB-C is great. Keyboard is horrible. I'd prefer the last gen trackpad - the new one is needlessly silly and easy to bump by accident. Touchbar is garbage and needs to go, Touch ID is great. Please give me back an sdcard reader at minimum. VGA port is probably too much to ask for but literally every conference room on the planet still has that as their default with other options being a bonus and I'm sick of accidentally leaving my adapters behind.

ImprovedSilence 7y ago

As the owner of a 15”, I agree on all points but one. I would sacrifice a little thinness for more battery life and repair ability. Love the keyboard, love the track pad, fine with usb c, meh on Touch Bar.

brynjolf 7y ago

The keyboard is flawed, Apple even admits it. Guess being ignorant is more convenient though.

waterhouse 7y ago

Surveys I found: "Is the Touch Bar a gimmick?" Among those who own it, 72% say "yes". https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/19/touch-bar-a-gimmick/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/19/touch-bar-a-gimmick/ "Does the new MacBook Pro's Touch Bar improve your workflow?" 38% say "No, I only use it for function keys it replaced", 23% say "Waiting for more app/function support", 21% say "Yes, it improves my workflow", 16% say "Other". https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/24/macbook-pro-touch-bar-poll/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/24/macbook-pro-touch-bar-poll/ Twitter poll: "Just out of interest, with @marcoarment in mind, does anybody actually like the Touch Bar of the new MacBook Pro?" "With over 1,000 responses, the results were effectively 50-50." https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/03/twitter-poll-touch-bar https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/04/03/twitter-poll-to...

SirHound 7y ago

I agree but I'd be happy to go back to a MacBook Air for all this.

afandian 7y ago

I hope you _can_ live without the Touch ID! I did some manual work last weekend and now my fingerprints don't work.

swish_bob 7y ago
I cut my finger quite badly a couple of weeks ago. Being unable to just switch my phone on as I picked it up was a whole world of annoying. It's surprising just how quickly we take these things for granted.
- afandian 7y ago
  I use touch id on my mac (when it works) but I use the most inconvenient finger just so I don't get too acclimatised.