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There's a still a big catch: normally, when a computer "runs Linux", you can keep installing new Linux distros until the hardware dies, which could be decades i
by p1mrx 8y ago
There's a still a big catch: normally, when a computer "runs Linux", you can keep installing new Linux distros until the hardware dies, which could be decades in the future.
Chromebooks reach "end of life" after a few (edit: ≤ 6.5) years, effectively becoming software-defined garbage: https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366 https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366
You can install Linux on some Chromebooks, but it's often a lot of work to disable the "press Space to erase your operating system" prompt. It would be better if all EoL Chromebooks received an update to disable secure boot, because secure boot stops being secure when it boots you to an unpatchable OS.
- DoctorOetker 8y agowhy not just a UEFI menu where you can implicitly authorize the private key by simply entering a public key of choice? 1024 bit = 128 bytes = 256 hexadecimal digits. Totally feasible to enter manually...
- derefr 8y agoBecause that’s still something an MITM in your hardware logistics chain could do to keylog you, which is what the trusted-boot sequence is designed to prevent. It might make sense to have a the ability to enter a UEFI key that would disable the dangerous “press to erase” prompt, but I don’t think it would ever make sense to make such a modified machine boot completely silently and “out-of-the-box like” (unless you don’t believe they should have secure boot as a design goal in the first place.) Probably the most burning in a UEFI key would do is change the “this is a dev-mode laptop” warning to a “this is a customized deployment; if you were expecting a device direct from Google, you are being attacked!” warning.
- knodi123 8y ago> 128 bytes = 256 hexadecimal digits. Totally feasible to enter manually... This looks like a job for QR codes!
- acolumb 8y agoTo be fair, there is a 15-minute mod (mrchromebox.tech) that allows for all Intel Chromebooks =<Kaby Lake to install an open UEFI that supports Windows, Linux and even Clover/MacOS in some cases.
- sosodev 8y agoYep! I flashed my Chromebook and I've been Arch ever since. It's a pretty good experience.
- kllrnohj 8y ago> Chromebooks reach "end of life" after a few years 6.5 years is not what would usually be described as "a few years."
- et2o 8y agoAgree; this was a blatant and knowing mischaracterization by OP.
- cure 8y agoIt is still planned obselescence, even at 6.5 years. I still use a lenovo t420 that is almost 8 years old. I bought it with the fastest processor available back then, and it is still plenty useful as a Debian desktop.
- neilv 8y agoThat's a perfectly fine Linux workstation for most non-GPU purposes. I use a slightly older model ThinkPad, in which I upgrade the CPU, RAM, and keyboard. (It does mean running my own GPU server, over the network, for Tensorflow, etc., which is an inconvenience compared to onboard. But "cloud" is en vogue anyway.)
- givinguflac 8y agoLenovo didn’t even officially support t420 windows 10 drivers. You didn’t even get half that 6.5 years before the mfr considered it obsolete.
- currysausage 8y agoFirst, Windows 8(.1) is supported until 2023. Second, Windows 8 drivers will usually work smoothly under Windows 10, and I see plenty Windows 8 drivers for the T420 in Driver Matrix. There's even a BIOS update from 2018-06-25. My T430 (one generation later) received a BIOS update in February and I expect more to come.
- somerandomness 8y agoMacs considered obsolete after 7 years https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624
- giancarlostoro 8y agoVintage you mean. Had a coworker point out that Apple calls really old Apple products vintage, it can't be called old or obsolete for whatever reason.
- wnevets 8y agoYeah that sounds like something apple would do, they love their orwellian language.
- coldtea 8y agoQuoting from the Apple page linked: “Obsolete products are those that were discontinued more than 7 years ago.“
- wrycoder 8y agoQuoting from the Apple page linked that you responded to: “Obsolete products are those that were discontinued more than 7 years ago.“
- nreilly 8y agoVintage and obsolete are two different categories. Vintage = 5-7 years after last manufacture vs 7+ for obsolete. Service is generally not available for vintage or obsolete products, however some places like California have service for vintage products available. Further details on Apple’s website: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624
- kalleboo 8y agoOne important difference to note. Google's policy is 6.5 years after "first device on the platform is released". Apple's policy is after last manufactured. The Apple policy also only explicitly applies to hardware (repair parts), although software often falls not far behind (maybe supported for a year or two longer)
- dannyr 8y agoI thought this was a good development but you seem to be very disappointed. Glass half-full I guess.
- netfl0 8y agoWhy did you think this was good and for whom?
- SiVal 8y agoMaybe good for me. The glass is half full but rising. Like many devs, I prefer a *nix-based client, one whose features are already working (not partially left as an exercise for the user), and that has a full range of available software. Macs have been in the sweet spot for many of us, but Apple's design ethos for the Mac has switched from "passion: best computer ever" to "courage: get used to it". I suspect the thing I'll need to get used to is using something other than a Mac. So, every move made by MS and Google on their popular, mainstream platforms is a step in the right direction. Neither is a full glass yet, but if these moves prove popular, both companies might decide to take even bolder steps toward desktop Linux.
- derekp7 8y agoThat prompt has been changed in some newer Chromebooks. Specifically, you have to navigate a menu sequence to re-enable OS verification (which then wipes everything).
- was_boring 8y agoI didn't know about the EoL for Chromebooks. I have one on the list that will reach it next year. Yes, I've had it for ~5 years, but I didn't expect it to just stop receiving updates after a certain period of time. Especially because it is still usable. I even got an older model chromebook because it was the best in the market for the price point at the time. Little did I know I was shooting myself in the foot. This will make me rethink chromebook purchases in the future. I feel sorry for the people who bought into pixel.
- OrgNet 8y ago> You can install Linux on some Chromebooks, https://wiki.galliumos.org/Hardware_Compatibility https://wiki.galliumos.org/Hardware_Compatibility
- beenBoutIT 8y agoYou can install native Linux on ALL Chromebooks. https://www.debian.org/ https://www.debian.org/
- panarky 8y ago> it's often a lot of work to disable the "press Space to erase your operating system" prompt That's not what this article is about. Yes, you can put the Chromebook in dev mode, disable secure boot and deal with that prompt. But today you can install Debian or Ubuntu or other distros in a container without enabling dev mode, and without disabling secure boot. Containers were only available on selected Chromebooks until now, and they'll be enabled on all new devices from here on. You can easily share files between Linux containers and the ChromeOS filesystem, with USB and SD cards, and with Google Drive. There's one-click backup and restore of containers. Linux apps like Firefox, LibreOffice, Gimp and VS Code are fully integrated into the ChromeOS window manager side by side with ChromeOS apps and Android apps.
- hundchenkatze 8y agoI think that's what p1mrx is saying as well. You can install Debian and Ubuntu in the containers, reaping the benefits of secure boot. However, after 6.5 years the devices are EOLd and stop receiving updates making secure boot useless since you're securely booting into out of date software. p1mrx wants secure boot to be disabled once the device is EOL so that they can install a distro without dealing with dev mode.
- DoctorOetker 8y agoI agree, the real problem is after (and in my opinion ethically also before) EOL, we can't sign new distro's and bootloaders... All we need that is currently missing is for end-users to be able (by law) to sign their own boatloaders, by entering their own public key into the most minimal inspectable ring infimum bootloader... Otherwise it's just a long and slow road towards either fab at home, or alternatively blind computation on the host, and encrypted communication with a minimal IO system attached to the host...
- acqq 8y agoOne should always be able to sign one's bootloader. If it's only 6.5 years later it can be that not even Linux support for that hardware would exist then?
- jakub_g 8y agoGiven that most of Androids stop receiving updates around 1-2 years on the market, official statement of support for 6.5 years actually sounds not bad, does it?
- bobajeff 8y agoI read a some time ago about them working AltOS mode, for Chromebooks, that was going to make installing other operating systems easier. Not sure what happened to it though. For me I won't mess with a Chromebook until they've consolidated Android and ChromeOS into a single platform (likely Fuchsia). Until then I don't expect any real support for edge cases to be adequately addressed. It will always "kind of but not really work" because Google's already working to replace it with something different.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jmontano 8y agoLiving in Colombia where a refurbished chromebook seems like the best option to run Linux on somewhat good hardware, these are good news for me.