24 ms·

Apple updates its iMac line

250 points by Luc 8y ago

huffmsa 8y ago
> ...ideal for pros with graphics-intensive workloads... Did a bot write this? No one uses "pros" in writing like this to refer to professionals.
- huffmsa 8y ago
  Really, this release was either written by a bot or a non-native English speaker. > From consumers to pros alike, users will notice their iMac is faster for everyday tasks all the way up to the most demanding pro workloads. This is not a natural sentence.
robotsquidward 8y ago
Disappointed we have another year of the same iMac design, especially with serious Mac Pro rumors swirling. Guess I'll wait for the laptops this year to see HOW Apple gets my money lol.
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  What rumors? That it'll be released or there are more details?
  - lioeters 8y ago
    I'm out of the loop on rumors, but I think it's about the "modular Mac Pro". I first heard about it in this article: https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
- yreg 8y ago
  I don't get the craving for a new design, the form-factor is pretty great as it is. Surely they'll eventually update it as well, but I'm a lot more interested in the internals/display/IO than the chassis.
  - drukenemo 8y ago
    humm I'd love to see thinner bezels and also face ID on the iMac.
bluedino 8y ago
The CPU increases are welcome, but I was hoping for the rumored 6K displays. No space grey, no T2 chip, no Touchbar. Somehow they still sell the 1080 21" model for $1099.
- jandrese 8y ago
  The non-Retina version wasn't updated so it's rocking some pretty old hardware now. It's probably going to be quietly dropped from the store once the remaining stock runs out.
- tsmarsh 8y ago
  No touch bar is a win IMHO. I'm not against it per se, but a soft `esc` was a mistake.
  - plufz 8y ago
    Have you tried remapping esc to capslock? (Or ctrl to capslock and esc to ctrl). I would never go back to normal esc.
    - narimiran 8y ago
      > Have you tried remapping esc to capslock? (Or ctrl to capslock and esc to ctrl) ¿Why not both? I have (on Linux, not on Mac, but it shouldn't matter): * "caps lock" + key = Ctrl+key * "caps lock" (release) = Esc It works like charm and I can definitely recommend it.
      - xutopia 8y ago
        How do you map it to do that?
        SkyPuncher 8y ago
        Karabiner - https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ I have mine mapped to: * caps (no other key) => esc * caps + home row => corresponding symbol key Extremely nice for programming when '(' and ')' are on 'L' and ';' keys - directly under my fingers.
dmitriid 8y ago
The price for upgrading remains as ridiculous as ever (especially if you're not in the US). RAM: 8 GB -> 16 GB is 2200 SEK (239 USD) 8 GB -> 32 GB is 6600 SEK (717 USD) You can get 32GB as low as 1689 SEK (183 USD) on Newegg.
- BossingAround 8y ago
  This has been the case ever since I can remember. When I was buying a MBP in 2012, this was the case as well. Of course, at that time, you could say 'screw it' and buy your own ram stick. Good ol' times. Nowadays, Apple is just not worth it (especially in Europe).
- kmlx 8y ago
  isn't the RAM soldered in on iMacs?
  - ineedasername 8y ago
    I don't think so at least as of mid-2017, I just searched and found videos on how to do the upgrade. Basically turn the thing over, open a latch, and swap out the ram.
  - bluedino 8y ago
    It's been user-replaceable on all but a very few models. Apple even puts a little panel on the 27" models that you can easily pop out to replace on your own OWC has been selling iMac upgrades for a long time, but you can use any brand memory.
  - cascom 8y ago
    I don’t think so - but you used to have to separate the screen from the base of the computer which while very doable was much more involved than popping open a case and inserting an additional stick of of ram
  - geesejuggler 8y ago
    The 21 inch model seems to have RAM slots, but not easily accessible like its larger sibling. The 27 inch has 4 user accessible SO-DIMM slots.
speg 8y ago
Why can't you upgrade to the new CPU on the 21.5" models?
- bluedino 8y ago
  Probably the same reason you can't on the MacBook Air
  - dmitriid 8y ago
    So... No real reason?
UseStrict 8y ago
I hope this is indicative of Apple starting to get it, no one wants to buy a machine that is 3-4 years behind the curve. I could live with having a fast hardware refresh cycle and a slower design one.
- matwood 8y ago
  Agreed. Updates 2 days in a row is a bit of a new thing for Apple. It is a good change if they are setting a precedence for doing more frequent spec bumps outside of events. We will not know for sure until 6-9-12 months from now.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    They have an event soon and seem to be getting other announcements out of the way.
educationdata 8y ago
When will they produce an Ultra-wide (21:9) screen iMac?
- kowdermeister 8y ago
  Once they figured out how to make it sound like a new revolutionary thing :)
BossingAround 8y ago
Huh... The title of their press release seems to me somewhat clickbait-y... Why not 'iMac got a hardware refresh; now with 2x performance'? When I read this, I thought, 'oh wow, Apple really outdid itself with their SW optimisations'. Overall, I'm kinda disappointed that the 21' and 27' macs get different CPU gens. Why? Why not just have the latest gen in both of them? Is it price, or is it more about artificial performance impediment?
- bluedino 8y ago
  have you never seen an apple press release? Every product is 2x as fast as the old one, based on a cherry picked benchmark
  - coldtea 8y ago
    have you never seen apple reviews by third parties? Their performance and battery estimates nearly always pan out, if they aren't a little pessimistic.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    It is surprising they stop at 2x every single time. You would think Apple gets better at getting better because they are so elite...
    - xvector 8y ago
      Wow, I've never heard someone complain about 2x generation-over-generation improvements before.
  - neuronic 8y ago
    I distinctly remember benchmarking by third parties for the iPhone 8. There wasn't even anything close out at the time.
  - xuki 8y ago
    In this case it's not just marketing speech: the new top end CPU is i9-9900k, it's ALMOST 2x faster than the previous top end CPU (i7-7700k) for multi-core benchmark. https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2548 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2548 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/1779 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/1779
fiblye 8y ago
Bought my iMac 7 years ago with 8GB as the default memory option and a 1TB fusion drive. And here we are, nearly a decade later. Still 8 GB in the newest models. Still 1 TB fusion drives. GPUs haven't even seemed to take a jump over last year's models.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  Plenty of folks use an iMac as the primary family machine - email, homework, some Netflix, kids' basic games. 8 GB is entirely sufficient for that. Hell, four probably is. If you're doing Photoshop plus a half dozen VMs, you buy it with more RAM.
  - altcognito 8y ago
    Given the improvement in technology, you would expect a decreased price in that case.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      Not if the cost savings went into other stuff, like the 4k/5k displays.
      - altcognito 8y ago
        Or the CPU. But we're talking an $1800 machine with a 5400rpm disc and 8gb of Ram. That's one hell of a screen and CPU.
        rootusrootus 8y ago
        It's probably no longer true, but when the 5K iMac came out it was the cheapest way to get a 5K screen. You got the computer for free, essentially.
        raydev 8y ago
        I think the high quality 5k screen is still the bulk of the cost. There's nothing else like it on the market except for LG's, and that's ~$1300USD. The high DPI monitor market is practically dead (for now) so there's no pressure forcing prices down.
jandrese 8y ago
The Vega 48 GPU seems disappointing for a machine that expensive.
- lasagnaphil 8y ago
  Agree, I would want at least a Vega 64 for that amount of money (Or even a Radeon VII!). But then Apple has to think about cooling inside the small chassis, so they might not have a choice. (They managed to fix a Vega 64X in the iMac Pro, but the Pro lineup has different thermal management than the normal one)
  - jandrese 8y ago
    It seems crazy to me that Apple compromised the cooling solution of their desktop machine to save 5mm of thickness. Does anyone outside of Apple's marketing department care about the thickness of their desktop machine as long as it is below an inch or two?
    - _s 8y ago
      We're not the target audience. For programmers, developers etc, Apple has the Mac Pro.
      - stadeschuldt 8y ago
        The Mac Pro has not been updated since Dec 2013.
- zachruss92 8y ago
  Yea, I agree. I'm pretty sure you could just plug in a Radeon VII as an eGPU, however. I've also heard that NVIDIA cards can work as eGPUs as well.
  - HillaryBriss 8y ago
    true. OTOH, an eGPU would be connected by Thunderbolt 3, which offers basically the same max communication speed as 4 PCIe lanes. and so i wonder: at what point does that communication speed limit the performance of such a set up? why do people normally plug high end graphics cards into a x16 slot? how good a GPU should be used in an eGPU housing before it's a waste of money? etc
tambourine_man 8y ago
Still selling brand new machines with 5400 rpm HDs. In 2019. It undermines the brand. Any Mac a customer buys should have good enough performance. 5400 spinning disk hasn’t been fast enough for a decade.
- justjash 8y ago
  Yeah, I bought my wife an iMac 4-5 years ago with the standard HD config and it feels almost useless being so slow. My even older MBA with half the RAM and an SSD is much more usable.
  - Angostura 8y ago
    Worth popping an aftermarker SSD (or Fusion Drive) in there.
    - systemtest 8y ago
      I did it once and removing the big glass plate assembly with magnets is nerve-wracking.
      - sudhirj 8y ago
        And no longer possible, think the newer models have fused glass.
        rudiv 8y ago
        Replacement is still possible (I used to work in a shop that did the same) but definitely way out of the reach of users. If I recall correctly, you have to order replacement adhesive from Apple, and when I was working there third-parties hasn't come out with their own replacement adhesive yet (Apple will not sell any sort of parts to users).
        tonyedgecombe 8y ago
zachruss92 8y ago
My 2017 MacBook pro is definitely my last Apple laptop because it's just too expensive and unreliable (for reasons well discussed on HN). I have definitely considered getting a Mac Mini, but the new iMacs are definitely interesting. One thing I'd be concerned about is cooling. I know the iMac Pros are not ideal from a cooling perspective - I can't imagine an 8 core processor @ 5GHz plus a Radeon Pro GPU runs cool. I'll wait for the user-upgradable Mac Pro before I make a decision.
- pickle-wizard 8y ago
  I've been saying for 10 years, that I am going to switch from a Mac to a ThinkPad running Linux. Yet I keep buying Macs. My latest was a MacBook Air. It really wasn't that much more than the ThinkPad I was looking at.
  - asark 8y ago
    Their steps backward in MacBook functionality (keyboard, ports, touchbar which is at best a wash) and the price hikes over the last ~4yrs have me thinking about going back to Linux. But I need a laptop, and don't want to feel like I have to have a mouse to use it and not be miserable. And good battery life, and power management so reliable I never have to think about it (close the lid, pick it up, walk off). They're so far ahead of everyone else it's hard to justify switching even when they keep screwing up and raising prices for years. It's more a testament to how bad every other hardware+software combo is, at this point, than how good they are.
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  It won't be cool. It'll throttle. 9900K requires very good cooling, preferably water cooling to keep that 5 GHz and there's no way to put that cooling, especially along GPU into tiny iMac. Also I'm afraid that constant heating would damage some electronical components after few years.
- pier25 8y ago
  I was in a similar situation in late 2017 and ended up getting a 5K iMac since I didn't need portability anymore. Best Mac I've ever had. The 5K iMac couldn't cool the i7 7700K properly, and since fan noise is extremely annoying for me I got the i5 6500K model. In over a year I've heard the fan a couple of times, but it is silent most of the time. Performance wise, I've never found myself wishing I had gotten the i7. I do mostly dev, but also video editing, photography, and music production as hobbies. Of course I got the SSD and 16GB.
ppetty 8y ago
Maybe the best feature: > 8GB (two 4GB) of 2666MHz DDR4 memory; four SO-DIMM slots, user accessible
- xavieralexandre 8y ago
  Already were: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201191 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201191
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  I haven't needed to touch my memory in forever; why is this still apparently weighed so heavily? Or is that one of those things where you try to go around the Apple tax of more memory by installing your own?
  - PedroBatista 8y ago
    Because when RAM was dirt cheap, you would pay triple the price if ordered from Apple. It's ridiculous.
  - acdha 8y ago
    Yes, and not just initially. Right now you can save something like $600 over the 64GB price but in a year those numbers will probably have improved and Apple won't have lowered the stock price at all.
  - SkyPuncher 8y ago
    RAM is currently my only major limitation on a computer. Being able to upgrade it down the line (or immediately because only small sizes are offered) is ideal.
- darkstar999 8y ago
  > 2666MHz Isn't that slow? And expensive, as usual. I'm looking at 16GB (8x2) 3200MHz for $109 on newegg. The iMac upgrade from 8 to 16GB is $200!
tosh 8y ago
I find it curious that Apple is starting to communicate major product updates decoupled from an event. Just good old press releases. Maybe they already have too many announcements to fit into the narrative of the handful of events per year.
- yreg 8y ago
  They want to talk about services. I guess arguably small iPad and iMac refreshes don't fit into that. I'm curious whether they take this PR option with AirPods 2 / AirPower as well or if those make it to an event.
  - andrethegiant 8y ago
    iPads yesterday, iMacs today, maybe AirPods/AirPower tomorrow. Spreading out announcements is unusual for Apple, perhaps they're trying something new here.
- feelix 8y ago
  they want to push iOS. They are begrudgingly updating their Mac line, with horrible specs such as 5400 RPM drives, and are avoiding holding an event for the announcements. This way they get to ward off accusations that they have forgotten about the Mac, and they get the profits from the sales, while still trying to drive consumers to iPads.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    The Mac line still makes enough revenue to be a f100 company by itself.
- Shivetya 8y ago
  spec bumps don't get anything more than a news release. I figure they are leaning towards only new product debut or when devices get more health related features which is where Apple seems to trying to position themselves. pcs, tablets, and phones, pretty much are well developed markets. now if the air pods get some new health monitoring ability I expect them to get a presentation but right now the only remaining product is air power; their charging mat.
subpixel 8y ago
re: RAM, I bought a 2015 iMac with a 1TB drive on Craiglist last month, thinking it might be the perfect machine to edit and store/serve family photos (mac --> Google Photos and mac --> BackBlaze). It never in a million years would have occurred to me that 1) 8GB on a 2015 machine would be utterly, pathetically underpowered for even browsing the web, or 2) that an iMac would be sold in 2015 that would not let you upgrade the RAM. I quickly re-sold it to another person who I bet also hadn't imagined these things.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Angostura 8y ago
  I'm quite surprised that you found 8Gigs a problem - what was the memory pressure indicator showing? It should be fine.
- crazygringo 8y ago
  ...how is 8GB underpowered for browsing the web? My 2016 MacBook Pro has 8GB and it's perfectly fine. I can't even imagine what web you're browsing.
  - simonh 8y ago
    I would have thought it would be ok too, but I'm guessing your machine has an SSD, so when it occasionally needs to use swap space you barely even notice. On a machine with a bare spinning platter drive and no fusion drive, going to swap can be awful for performance. You’ll really notice it. So most of the time everything will be fine, but now and then it will suddenly start crawling. Also Chrome with a dozen tabs open is a bit of a memory hog. Safari is a lot better, but eh.
    - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
      It's probably not even swapping. It's that operating systems use additional memory for I/O caching. Less memory means fewer blocks in the cache which means more slow reads from spinning rust every time you open a program or document. But replacing HDD with SSD fixes that too.
skilled 8y ago
The "upgrade" to 512GB SSD is not so bad, but to upgrade to 32GB RAM it's $600? Yikes... Looks like Apple is starting to put a premium on OSX rather than going quality-first for its hardware.
- scarface74 8y ago
  RAM upgrades from Apple have been ridiculously overpriced for decades.
jcadam 8y ago
Still have an old first-gen i5 powered 27" iMac. I pulled it out of the closet a year ago and replaced the dead OEM hard drive with an SSD and set it up in a corner of the living room as a GP/web machine. The optical drive is dead and a couple of the USB ports don't work, but it's still useful (nice screen, still). It's the last mac in the house, though, and I'll never buy another one.
mtw 8y ago
If only they offered with a Nvidia GPU
PedroBatista 8y ago
"iMac gets a 2x performance boost" [Citation needed]
- dagw 8y ago
  The link you just copy/pasted is literally the citation
  - PedroBatista 8y ago
    It's 2x faster because Apple says so. OK.
    - dagw 8y ago
      The general rule on HN is to use the same headline as the article you're linking to and not to editorialize in your title. So when you're linking to an Apple press release then of course it's Apple saying it.
aczerepinski 8y ago
I really wish I could buy a headless Mac with similar performance (including a real video card) and price. The mini doesn't quite meet my needs and the pro at $3k+ is way too expensive. These specs look good (although I would greatly prefer SSD) but I really don't want an extra monitor on my desk.
- minikites 8y ago
  The Mac Pro is also unchanged since 2013 (they're selling a six year old computer at full price).
- jwr 8y ago
  I'm curious: why would you want a headless machine with a real video card? If, as I'm guessing, you want to connect an external monitor, what would be your monitor choice (and how would you connect it) to get 5K? From my research, the iMac (or iMac Pro) was pretty much the only way to get a working non-crappy 5K setup.
  - aczerepinski 8y ago
    I have a 27" LG 4k monitor that I connect to my work MacBook pro during the day. Then I'd like to flip a switch (or swap one plug) to use my personal computer with the same monitor. Currently that personal computer is a 2013 iMac sitting right next to my LG monitor but I'd love to get rid of it and free up the desk space.
    - jwr 8y ago
      Ok, thanks. That's a similar setup to mine, but I'm very tired of plugging, re-plugging, and using the stupid OSD menus in monitors. Plus, I really think that for 27" a 5K resolution is required.
- nudded 8y ago
  The mini + eGPU seems like it would be a candidate then?
sahin-boydas 8y ago
Did you guys see this? "iMac Pro now available with 256 GB RAM option … for an extra $5200" sort of pricey. https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/19/256-gb-ram-imac-pro/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/19/256-gb-ram-imac-pro/
- auggierose 8y ago
  also has one more added graphics option now
- aboutruby 8y ago
  Looks like it costs $3,381 off-the-shelf: https://www.avadirect.com/256GB-4-x-64GB-Quad-Rank-DDR4-2666MHz-CL19-ECC-Load-Reduced-Memory/Product/11428748 https://www.avadirect.com/256GB-4-x-64GB-Quad-Rank-DDR4-2666...
- btown 8y ago
  If you're buying a machine that needs 256 GB of RAM, presumably you or your company is using it for the type of graphics/video work that pays well enough to recoup $5200 in costs. The comparison is to professional equipment like cameras and audio interfaces, not to consumer products.
owenwil 8y ago
It seems to me this product is on life support and Apple is simply doing performance bumps to avoid big capex expenses on designing/tooling for something new? It ships with a 5,400 RPM disk, an outdated display technology, omits T2 chipset, doesn't include Face ID, nor any of their other innovations over the last year. It's actually egregious to stuff old hardware in a workable form factor and hock it, while ignoring that they're not backporting _any_ of their other innovations back to these devices. And that's not to mention: buying a $3500 screen glued to a computer is massively risky.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Well the Mac Mini got a recent refresh with decent processors, the new Mac Pro is reputedly just around the corner and there is a rumour they are going to release a new display soon. My guess is you are right, it's on life support.
- drukenemo 8y ago
  Outdated display tedhnology? Care to elaborate?
thomasjudge 8y ago
One word: hackintosh.
- pier25 8y ago
  I started fiddling with hackintoshes in 2010 and since then I've built maybe a dozen ones for me or my friends. I now own a 5K iMac. My time is worth more than the difference in price between a hackintosh and a real mac. Of course if you are in it for hardware freedom instead of cost then a hackintosh is your only option, but it's very difficult to get a perfect build and updating the OS is always a Russian roulette game.
raviojha 8y ago
Hey Apple! While you're on this upgrade sprint, I wish out of the blue, an iPhone SE 2 is also announced.
- aboutruby 8y ago
  The more time passes, the more it looks like they released an SE by mistake, still be best phone ever made IMHO but doesn't fit the strategy of upselling as much as possible.
  - DanTheManPR 8y ago
    Reading your comment on my iPhone SE. It really is the best ultra-portable smartphone ever released :) I'm a bit puzzled as to why they don't just keep selling it, maybe with an upgraded SOC but no other new components. I don't think it would cannibalize sales of their mainline phones, and it would give lower income people a path to buy into their ecosystem. They're taking that approach with the iPad line. Maybe it didn't sell as well as I thought it did.
ojhughes 8y ago
I'm still running a 2012 iMac with fusion drive and it still feels slicker to me than a high spec Windows machine.
- okmokmz 8y ago
  What would you consider a "high spec" Windows machine?
  - ojhughes 8y ago
    Dell XPS laptop from 2018.
    - slantyyz 8y ago
      That's not a high spec Windows machine, that's just a high spec Windows laptop.
      - ojhughes 8y ago
        High spec is subjective.. it’s high spec compared to a 2012 iMac
        slantyyz 8y ago
        Well, it depends. Which particular 2018 XPS are you referring to? Some Passmark CPU comparisons: 2012 iMac with the i7 3770 - 9282 XPS 13 i7-8550U - 8305 XPS 15 i7-8750H -12477 (Note that XPS 15s tend to be thermally throttled also) Desktop i7 9700K - 17257 Desktop i9 9900X - 22883 Desktop Ryzen 2920X - 21920 A high spec laptop doesn't compare with a high spec desktop CPU, especially if it's a U class CPU like the ones used by the XPS 13 (which seems to be way more popular than the XPS 15). If you have an i7 2012 iMac, it still holds its own to any top end ultrabook (U) class CPU.
todd8 8y ago
It's just frustrating, I switched the household over to Apple devices when OSX came out, and now there really aren't any systems from Apple that look interesting to me. I've been programming since before the (Unix) dawn of time, and Apple devices have been good development machines for me since OSX was released 18 years ago. I'm comfortable on Linux, but the Apple iOS devices and computers are all over my home and integrate well with my development machines. Furthermore, the family does well with MacOS, and they don't need IT help with their email, iPhone, music, homework, printing, etc. like they used to under Windows. I'd love to see Apple make a system that supported upgradeable memory, SSDs, High capacity hard drives, graphics, and separate larger monitors, but that doesn't look like that will ever happen. By locking down the hardware to just certain configurations, the very successful stores can handle problems (hardware, software, and user related) at locations all over the world. Even if Apple can't make the machines more upgradeable because of customer support issues, the new machines don't seem to be well designed for me. They have become too thin and too sleek and overpriced because of features I don't want (over sharp display, touchbar) and issues caused by the pursuit of sleekness and style (crap keyboards, thermal limits). Lenovo (Thinkpads) offers thin, light, somewhat upgradeable, good looking laptops that are light to carry and easier to grip with great keyboards. I wish Apple could start with something like one of those and equip it with an Apple touchpad and MacOS. I've been waiting and waiting for Apple to improve its line up (I'm writing this on a Mac Pro from 2013 with a nice 34 inch ultra-wide monitor). It looks like I'll never replace it. I know there are alternatives, my home/office are littered with computers, Thinkpads running Linux, Microsoft laptops, Dell Servers running FreeBSD, and homemade PCs running Windows (for gaming); but I'm going to miss using MacOS as my daily-driver.
- _fzslm 8y ago
  > I'd love to see Apple make a system that supported upgradeable memory, SSDs, High capacity hard drives, graphics, and separate larger monitors, but that doesn't look like that will ever happen. You may want to keep your eyes out for the new Mac Pro that's meant to release this year.
  - naravara 8y ago
    Even if the Mac Pro is the computer of all our dreams, I doubt it will meet the poster’s needs. Seems like they want a fairly bare-bones, minimalist and simple computer. I doubt a Mac Pro is going to come in at under $3.5k at the entry level.
randcraw 8y ago
And if you buy two of these, you get a 4X performance boost!
pier25 8y ago
I'm curious how the thermals will be with the i7 and i9 chips. The 2017 5K iMac had cooling problems with the infamous i7 7700K.
icedchai 8y ago
The iMac is a great machine. I have a late 2014 iMac 5K 27" and it's still going strong with 32 gigs of RAM and 512G SSD. It had the max CPU for the time (4.0 ghz i7.) Apple Care expired end of 2017, so unless the thing dies or OS upgrades become unsupported, I don't have a reason to upgrade it.
- jillesvangurp 8y ago
  Same here. My 3TB fusion drive died at some point but it lives on with just the 128GB ssd that came with that. Also, I connected an external 2 TB Samsung SSD to it which ended up being a nice performance upgrade as fusion drives are slow. Apple should just kill the fusion drive option; bad idea. You are better off with a proper ssd and external storage. I maxed out the specs at the time, which in retrospect was a good choice since it has lasted me for five years. The screen is awesome and with a quad core i7 and 32GB there's not a lot it can't do comfortably even today. Games are the exception as this is not a gaming machine. Yet, I regularly use x-plane on it as well and I get decent performance given that it is running on a laptop grade GPU that is five years old. It's actually more sensitive to CPU performance and the 4Ghz core i7 is still pretty nice. CPUs have gotten faster but not a lot in the last five years. Certainly they have not doubled in performance twice. Rip Moore's law, I guess. I don't run x-plane at native resolution because I gain a few FPS by using a slightly lower resolution but it is actually usable at native resolution if you can live with lower graphic settings. If you are into this, I maxed out most graphics settings like maximum objects, texture resolution, etc. but have reduced reflections to the minimum (kills performance with not a lot of visual impact) and reduced anti-aliasing settings and shadows as well. Tuning x-plane is a bit of dark art but generally it can look great on even modest hardware. I also use a lot (several hundreds of GB) of high resolution Ortho4XP scenery and and other custom scenery. Typically seeing between 20/30 FPS. So, looking pretty good and it uses the 32 GB. The AMD m295x with 4GB has been pretty good. It's a bit disappointing that five years later the state of the art Imac is essentially the same with a slightly newer CPU and GPU. Sure it will be faster but a 2x performance boost will only be true for software that maxes out all 8 cores. Still, nothing wrong with the vega and i9 combo. I'd take that provided there are no thermal issues. I had the same kind of disappointment when I replaced my 2012 MBP with a new one a bit over a year ago. My java build ended up roughly 30% faster only (maxing out all cores). I suspect my comparatively ancient iMac might be faster.
Geee 8y ago
It seems that the price point of i9+32GB+1TB SSD+Vega 48 is about the same price ($5000) as the baseline iMac Pro. Imac Pro comes with Xeon processor and Vega 56 though. Is the iMac Pro better at this price point?
- IloveHN84 8y ago
  For that price tag, I can build a full server with more pimped specs and that can do much more. 5000$ are too much
  - Geee 8y ago
    There aren't really options if you want the form factor, silent operation and MacOS. Also, I won't be upgrading my main work computer in at least 5 years. I'm now on 2011 iMac which is still a great computer, but unfortunately can't be updated to the latest MacOS any more.
vgoh1 8y ago
Proof that Apple has anorexia: 5mm thin on the outer edge of the all-in-one computer and monitor. Thinner than a lot of monitor-only's everywhere else. What is the purpose? Who would not trade a thicker stationary monitor for better upgrade-ability and/or a cheaper price? Look behind your monitor - odds are, it's just a bunch of empty space behind it on your desk. I would love to be a little bird on the wall in the Apple strategy meetings where they decided that iMacs need to be that thin. I still have an old iMac G3 kicking around from 1999. It's over a foot deep, just takes up the empty space behind the screen on the desk - no big deal.
- infotogivenm 8y ago
  As a counterpoint: Aesthetics matter to a non-trivial percentage of computer users. I love the iMac’s design and it was a pretty big selling point to me and differentiated the model from the other available desktops. I use an arm-style mount and couldnt be happier with the overall lack of wires and thin aesthetics.
amedvednikov 8y ago
5400RPM HDD in 2019
mythz 8y ago
I’ve always had a fondness for the iMac which I’ve been using as my main Desktop since the last PowerPC version, IMO they’ve always been a mark of the best all-in-one of the day, lots of people like to focus on the internals but it ignores the noise and clutter free desktop and top build quality I’ve enjoyed for over a decade. I’ve upgraded 4 times since and am currently enjoying the iMac 5k, this floating screen is beautiful on the inside and out, the 5k is gorgeous and its form factor is near perfect, still just a single power cord disappearing out from behind it and wireless for everything else. I’ve got the high-end version with Max CPU and SSD so I’ll skip this version but will in all likelihood get the next unless someone ships a better all-in-one, which never happens.
villgax 8y ago
I'm going Razer for higher-end upgradeable laptops & custom builds for anything which isn't going to be portable.
xhruso00 8y ago
Cool HW, however fusion drive in 2019? Apple wake up!
JoshTriplett 8y ago
I just wish there was a way to run OSX on a high-performance server, or a cloud virtual machine, for continuous-integration purposes. The iMac Pro doesn't cut it, and is a pain to host anywhere. I'd like to test-build applications for OSX alongside CI builds for Linux and Windows, and there's no sensible, legal, scalable solution for that.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  Searching for "macos hosting", here are the first seven links I found: XCLOUD - macOS Cloud Hosting - https://xcloud.me https://xcloud.me XCLOUD is an enterprise-class IaaS for macOS. It is perfect for developers and companies that need to run one or hundreds of dedicated macOS VMs in the Cloud. In fact, each XCLOUD instance is a dedicated virtual machine running macOS version of your choice . MacStadium | Apple Mac Infrastructure & Private Clouds - https://www.macstadium.com https://www.macstadium.com MacStadium is the only provider of enterprise-class Apple Mac infrastructure. Whether you need to deploy a private cloud for large-scale CI/CD or just need a single Mac mini to test your iOS app, MacStadium has a solution for all of your Mac development needs. MacHighway | Mac Web Hosting | Website Builder & VPS Hosting - https://www.machighway.com https://www.machighway.com MacHighway's renewable energy initiative means that not only do we reduce our environmental impact, but you do, too - simply by choosing us as your hosting provider. We purchase enough wind energy credits from Renewable Choice Energy to cover what our servers, network center, and offices use. macOS Server Hosting - Colocation America - https://www.colocationamerica.com/dedicated-servers/mac-os-x.htm https://www.colocationamerica.com/dedicated-servers/mac-os-x... Colocation America has a dedicated server for all the Mac heads out there that are looking to run the latest Mac Operating System (OS) server hosting with their favorite operating system. Reap the benefits of Apple's latest macOS with its airtight security features and its world renowned user-friendly interface. CloudXMac - Mac VPS macOS VPS Cloud - https://cloudxmac.com https://cloudxmac.com High-quality macOS VPS with incredible support from multiple locations around the world.You can connect to the macOS VPS from any devices to use iMessage, develop iOS and Xcode applications, run any MAC software and more! HostMyApple: Mac VPS cloud Hosting of macOS - https://www.hostmyapple.com/macvps.html https://www.hostmyapple.com/macvps.html With up to 8GB of RAM and the option to expand storage HostMyApple offers powerful and affordable Mac VPS hosting. With no hardware to purchase, running your own macOS server is an easy choice for anyone looking to host their own website, share files, run mail services or develop iOS applications, all with the power of macOS Mojave. macOS in the cloud. - Mac mini Hosting & Colocation - https://www.macminivault.com/try/ https://www.macminivault.com/try/ macOS in the cloud. We specialize in hosting Macs in data centers. Our two data centers (Milwaukee and Phoenix) host thousands of Macs. We have high density cabinets for both the Mac mini and Mac Pro.
pdq 8y ago
@dang typo: This has been up for 5 hours with the title "Apply" instead of "Apple"?
- dang 8y ago
  Typing fail—sorry! The submitted title was "iMac gets a 2x performance boost" but I changed that about 15 minutes before you posted, because we try to avoid press-release language on HN.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
paul7986 8y ago
“Apply,”.... is now making Macs wonder what “Apple,” thinks of this?
scarface74 8y ago
An interview with the iMac product manager. Mostly a fluff piece but Jason Snell did ask about the continued use of non SSD hard drives. (Link will bring up a web page if you don’t have Overcast.) https://overcast.fm/+Fcm8vPRGM https://overcast.fm/+Fcm8vPRGM
turboturbo 8y ago
If you’re in the market for this model, do yourself a favour and don’t buy the base configuration with the unusably slow 5400 rpm HDD. I bought the previous model with that hard drive and the startup performance is appalling
locusm 8y ago
If you're intending to Bootcamp your iMac, remember that Windows will only use the slow AF spinning rust portion of the fusion drive. The SSD is worth it in this case.
jtotheh 8y ago
it's easy to add an external SSD to an iMac, install the OS on it and configure it to boot off of it. I have gotten great performance out of an old iMac by doing this.

250 points by Luc 8y ago

> ...ideal for pros with graphics-intensive workloads... Did a bot write this? No one uses "pros" in writing like this to refer to professionals.

huffmsa 8y ago
Really, this release was either written by a bot or a non-native English speaker. > From consumers to pros alike, users will notice their iMac is faster for everyday tasks all the way up to the most demanding pro workloads. This is not a natural sentence.

robotsquidward 8y ago

Disappointed we have another year of the same iMac design, especially with serious Mac Pro rumors swirling. Guess I'll wait for the laptops this year to see HOW Apple gets my money lol.

vbezhenar 8y ago
What rumors? That it'll be released or there are more details?
- lioeters 8y ago
  I'm out of the loop on rumors, but I think it's about the "modular Mac Pro". I first heard about it in this article: https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
yreg 8y ago
I don't get the craving for a new design, the form-factor is pretty great as it is. Surely they'll eventually update it as well, but I'm a lot more interested in the internals/display/IO than the chassis.
- drukenemo 8y ago
  humm I'd love to see thinner bezels and also face ID on the iMac.

bluedino 8y ago

The CPU increases are welcome, but I was hoping for the rumored 6K displays. No space grey, no T2 chip, no Touchbar. Somehow they still sell the 1080 21" model for $1099.

jandrese 8y ago
The non-Retina version wasn't updated so it's rocking some pretty old hardware now. It's probably going to be quietly dropped from the store once the remaining stock runs out.
tsmarsh 8y ago
No touch bar is a win IMHO. I'm not against it per se, but a soft `esc` was a mistake.
- plufz 8y ago
  Have you tried remapping esc to capslock? (Or ctrl to capslock and esc to ctrl). I would never go back to normal esc.
  - narimiran 8y ago
    > Have you tried remapping esc to capslock? (Or ctrl to capslock and esc to ctrl) ¿Why not both? I have (on Linux, not on Mac, but it shouldn't matter): * "caps lock" + key = Ctrl+key * "caps lock" (release) = Esc It works like charm and I can definitely recommend it.
    - xutopia 8y ago
      How do you map it to do that?
      - SkyPuncher 8y ago
        Karabiner - https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ I have mine mapped to: * caps (no other key) => esc * caps + home row => corresponding symbol key Extremely nice for programming when '(' and ')' are on 'L' and ';' keys - directly under my fingers.

dmitriid 8y ago

The price for upgrading remains as ridiculous as ever (especially if you're not in the US). RAM: 8 GB -> 16 GB is 2200 SEK (239 USD) 8 GB -> 32 GB is 6600 SEK (717 USD) You can get 32GB as low as 1689 SEK (183 USD) on Newegg.

BossingAround 8y ago
This has been the case ever since I can remember. When I was buying a MBP in 2012, this was the case as well. Of course, at that time, you could say 'screw it' and buy your own ram stick. Good ol' times. Nowadays, Apple is just not worth it (especially in Europe).
kmlx 8y ago
isn't the RAM soldered in on iMacs?
- ineedasername 8y ago
  I don't think so at least as of mid-2017, I just searched and found videos on how to do the upgrade. Basically turn the thing over, open a latch, and swap out the ram.
- bluedino 8y ago
  It's been user-replaceable on all but a very few models. Apple even puts a little panel on the 27" models that you can easily pop out to replace on your own OWC has been selling iMac upgrades for a long time, but you can use any brand memory.
- cascom 8y ago
  I don’t think so - but you used to have to separate the screen from the base of the computer which while very doable was much more involved than popping open a case and inserting an additional stick of of ram
- geesejuggler 8y ago
  The 21 inch model seems to have RAM slots, but not easily accessible like its larger sibling. The 27 inch has 4 user accessible SO-DIMM slots.

speg 8y ago

Why can't you upgrade to the new CPU on the 21.5" models?

bluedino 8y ago
Probably the same reason you can't on the MacBook Air
- dmitriid 8y ago
  So... No real reason?

UseStrict 8y ago

I hope this is indicative of Apple starting to get it, no one wants to buy a machine that is 3-4 years behind the curve. I could live with having a fast hardware refresh cycle and a slower design one.

matwood 8y ago
Agreed. Updates 2 days in a row is a bit of a new thing for Apple. It is a good change if they are setting a precedence for doing more frequent spec bumps outside of events. We will not know for sure until 6-9-12 months from now.
- MBCook 8y ago
  They have an event soon and seem to be getting other announcements out of the way.

educationdata 8y ago

When will they produce an Ultra-wide (21:9) screen iMac?

kowdermeister 8y ago
Once they figured out how to make it sound like a new revolutionary thing :)

BossingAround 8y ago

Huh... The title of their press release seems to me somewhat clickbait-y... Why not 'iMac got a hardware refresh; now with 2x performance'? When I read this, I thought, 'oh wow, Apple really outdid itself with their SW optimisations'. Overall, I'm kinda disappointed that the 21' and 27' macs get different CPU gens. Why? Why not just have the latest gen in both of them? Is it price, or is it more about artificial performance impediment?

bluedino 8y ago
have you never seen an apple press release? Every product is 2x as fast as the old one, based on a cherry picked benchmark
- coldtea 8y ago
  have you never seen apple reviews by third parties? Their performance and battery estimates nearly always pan out, if they aren't a little pessimistic.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  It is surprising they stop at 2x every single time. You would think Apple gets better at getting better because they are so elite...
  - xvector 8y ago
    Wow, I've never heard someone complain about 2x generation-over-generation improvements before.
- neuronic 8y ago
  I distinctly remember benchmarking by third parties for the iPhone 8. There wasn't even anything close out at the time.
- xuki 8y ago
  In this case it's not just marketing speech: the new top end CPU is i9-9900k, it's ALMOST 2x faster than the previous top end CPU (i7-7700k) for multi-core benchmark. https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2548 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/2548 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/1779 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/1779

fiblye 8y ago

Bought my iMac 7 years ago with 8GB as the default memory option and a 1TB fusion drive. And here we are, nearly a decade later. Still 8 GB in the newest models. Still 1 TB fusion drives. GPUs haven't even seemed to take a jump over last year's models.

ceejayoz 8y ago
Plenty of folks use an iMac as the primary family machine - email, homework, some Netflix, kids' basic games. 8 GB is entirely sufficient for that. Hell, four probably is. If you're doing Photoshop plus a half dozen VMs, you buy it with more RAM.
- altcognito 8y ago
  Given the improvement in technology, you would expect a decreased price in that case.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Not if the cost savings went into other stuff, like the 4k/5k displays.
    - altcognito 8y ago
      Or the CPU. But we're talking an $1800 machine with a 5400rpm disc and 8gb of Ram. That's one hell of a screen and CPU.
      - rootusrootus 8y ago
        It's probably no longer true, but when the 5K iMac came out it was the cheapest way to get a 5K screen. You got the computer for free, essentially.
        raydev 8y ago
        I think the high quality 5k screen is still the bulk of the cost. There's nothing else like it on the market except for LG's, and that's ~$1300USD. The high DPI monitor market is practically dead (for now) so there's no pressure forcing prices down.

jandrese 8y ago

The Vega 48 GPU seems disappointing for a machine that expensive.

lasagnaphil 8y ago
Agree, I would want at least a Vega 64 for that amount of money (Or even a Radeon VII!). But then Apple has to think about cooling inside the small chassis, so they might not have a choice. (They managed to fix a Vega 64X in the iMac Pro, but the Pro lineup has different thermal management than the normal one)
- jandrese 8y ago
  It seems crazy to me that Apple compromised the cooling solution of their desktop machine to save 5mm of thickness. Does anyone outside of Apple's marketing department care about the thickness of their desktop machine as long as it is below an inch or two?
  - _s 8y ago
    We're not the target audience. For programmers, developers etc, Apple has the Mac Pro.
    - stadeschuldt 8y ago
      The Mac Pro has not been updated since Dec 2013.
zachruss92 8y ago
Yea, I agree. I'm pretty sure you could just plug in a Radeon VII as an eGPU, however. I've also heard that NVIDIA cards can work as eGPUs as well.
- HillaryBriss 8y ago
  true. OTOH, an eGPU would be connected by Thunderbolt 3, which offers basically the same max communication speed as 4 PCIe lanes. and so i wonder: at what point does that communication speed limit the performance of such a set up? why do people normally plug high end graphics cards into a x16 slot? how good a GPU should be used in an eGPU housing before it's a waste of money? etc

tambourine_man 8y ago

Still selling brand new machines with 5400 rpm HDs. In 2019. It undermines the brand. Any Mac a customer buys should have good enough performance. 5400 spinning disk hasn’t been fast enough for a decade.

justjash 8y ago
Yeah, I bought my wife an iMac 4-5 years ago with the standard HD config and it feels almost useless being so slow. My even older MBA with half the RAM and an SSD is much more usable.
- Angostura 8y ago
  Worth popping an aftermarker SSD (or Fusion Drive) in there.
  - systemtest 8y ago
    I did it once and removing the big glass plate assembly with magnets is nerve-wracking.
    - sudhirj 8y ago
      And no longer possible, think the newer models have fused glass.
      - rudiv 8y ago
        Replacement is still possible (I used to work in a shop that did the same) but definitely way out of the reach of users. If I recall correctly, you have to order replacement adhesive from Apple, and when I was working there third-parties hasn't come out with their own replacement adhesive yet (Apple will not sell any sort of parts to users).
        tonyedgecombe 8y ago

zachruss92 8y ago

My 2017 MacBook pro is definitely my last Apple laptop because it's just too expensive and unreliable (for reasons well discussed on HN). I have definitely considered getting a Mac Mini, but the new iMacs are definitely interesting. One thing I'd be concerned about is cooling. I know the iMac Pros are not ideal from a cooling perspective - I can't imagine an 8 core processor @ 5GHz plus a Radeon Pro GPU runs cool. I'll wait for the user-upgradable Mac Pro before I make a decision.

pickle-wizard 8y ago
I've been saying for 10 years, that I am going to switch from a Mac to a ThinkPad running Linux. Yet I keep buying Macs. My latest was a MacBook Air. It really wasn't that much more than the ThinkPad I was looking at.
- asark 8y ago
  Their steps backward in MacBook functionality (keyboard, ports, touchbar which is at best a wash) and the price hikes over the last ~4yrs have me thinking about going back to Linux. But I need a laptop, and don't want to feel like I have to have a mouse to use it and not be miserable. And good battery life, and power management so reliable I never have to think about it (close the lid, pick it up, walk off). They're so far ahead of everyone else it's hard to justify switching even when they keep screwing up and raising prices for years. It's more a testament to how bad every other hardware+software combo is, at this point, than how good they are.
vbezhenar 8y ago
It won't be cool. It'll throttle. 9900K requires very good cooling, preferably water cooling to keep that 5 GHz and there's no way to put that cooling, especially along GPU into tiny iMac. Also I'm afraid that constant heating would damage some electronical components after few years.
pier25 8y ago
I was in a similar situation in late 2017 and ended up getting a 5K iMac since I didn't need portability anymore. Best Mac I've ever had. The 5K iMac couldn't cool the i7 7700K properly, and since fan noise is extremely annoying for me I got the i5 6500K model. In over a year I've heard the fan a couple of times, but it is silent most of the time. Performance wise, I've never found myself wishing I had gotten the i7. I do mostly dev, but also video editing, photography, and music production as hobbies. Of course I got the SSD and 16GB.

ppetty 8y ago

Maybe the best feature: > 8GB (two 4GB) of 2666MHz DDR4 memory; four SO-DIMM slots, user accessible

xavieralexandre 8y ago
Already were: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201191 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201191
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
I haven't needed to touch my memory in forever; why is this still apparently weighed so heavily? Or is that one of those things where you try to go around the Apple tax of more memory by installing your own?
- PedroBatista 8y ago
  Because when RAM was dirt cheap, you would pay triple the price if ordered from Apple. It's ridiculous.
- acdha 8y ago
  Yes, and not just initially. Right now you can save something like $600 over the 64GB price but in a year those numbers will probably have improved and Apple won't have lowered the stock price at all.
- SkyPuncher 8y ago
  RAM is currently my only major limitation on a computer. Being able to upgrade it down the line (or immediately because only small sizes are offered) is ideal.
darkstar999 8y ago
> 2666MHz Isn't that slow? And expensive, as usual. I'm looking at 16GB (8x2) 3200MHz for $109 on newegg. The iMac upgrade from 8 to 16GB is $200!

tosh 8y ago

I find it curious that Apple is starting to communicate major product updates decoupled from an event. Just good old press releases. Maybe they already have too many announcements to fit into the narrative of the handful of events per year.

yreg 8y ago
They want to talk about services. I guess arguably small iPad and iMac refreshes don't fit into that. I'm curious whether they take this PR option with AirPods 2 / AirPower as well or if those make it to an event.
- andrethegiant 8y ago
  iPads yesterday, iMacs today, maybe AirPods/AirPower tomorrow. Spreading out announcements is unusual for Apple, perhaps they're trying something new here.
feelix 8y ago
they want to push iOS. They are begrudgingly updating their Mac line, with horrible specs such as 5400 RPM drives, and are avoiding holding an event for the announcements. This way they get to ward off accusations that they have forgotten about the Mac, and they get the profits from the sales, while still trying to drive consumers to iPads.
- scarface74 8y ago
  The Mac line still makes enough revenue to be a f100 company by itself.
Shivetya 8y ago
spec bumps don't get anything more than a news release. I figure they are leaning towards only new product debut or when devices get more health related features which is where Apple seems to trying to position themselves. pcs, tablets, and phones, pretty much are well developed markets. now if the air pods get some new health monitoring ability I expect them to get a presentation but right now the only remaining product is air power; their charging mat.

subpixel 8y ago

re: RAM, I bought a 2015 iMac with a 1TB drive on Craiglist last month, thinking it might be the perfect machine to edit and store/serve family photos (mac --> Google Photos and mac --> BackBlaze). It never in a million years would have occurred to me that 1) 8GB on a 2015 machine would be utterly, pathetically underpowered for even browsing the web, or 2) that an iMac would be sold in 2015 that would not let you upgrade the RAM. I quickly re-sold it to another person who I bet also hadn't imagined these things.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Angostura 8y ago
I'm quite surprised that you found 8Gigs a problem - what was the memory pressure indicator showing? It should be fine.
crazygringo 8y ago
...how is 8GB underpowered for browsing the web? My 2016 MacBook Pro has 8GB and it's perfectly fine. I can't even imagine what web you're browsing.
- simonh 8y ago
  I would have thought it would be ok too, but I'm guessing your machine has an SSD, so when it occasionally needs to use swap space you barely even notice. On a machine with a bare spinning platter drive and no fusion drive, going to swap can be awful for performance. You’ll really notice it. So most of the time everything will be fine, but now and then it will suddenly start crawling. Also Chrome with a dozen tabs open is a bit of a memory hog. Safari is a lot better, but eh.
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    It's probably not even swapping. It's that operating systems use additional memory for I/O caching. Less memory means fewer blocks in the cache which means more slow reads from spinning rust every time you open a program or document. But replacing HDD with SSD fixes that too.

skilled 8y ago

The "upgrade" to 512GB SSD is not so bad, but to upgrade to 32GB RAM it's $600? Yikes... Looks like Apple is starting to put a premium on OSX rather than going quality-first for its hardware.

scarface74 8y ago
RAM upgrades from Apple have been ridiculously overpriced for decades.

jcadam 8y ago

Still have an old first-gen i5 powered 27" iMac. I pulled it out of the closet a year ago and replaced the dead OEM hard drive with an SSD and set it up in a corner of the living room as a GP/web machine. The optical drive is dead and a couple of the USB ports don't work, but it's still useful (nice screen, still). It's the last mac in the house, though, and I'll never buy another one.

mtw 8y ago

If only they offered with a Nvidia GPU

PedroBatista 8y ago

"iMac gets a 2x performance boost" [Citation needed]

dagw 8y ago
The link you just copy/pasted is literally the citation
- PedroBatista 8y ago
  It's 2x faster because Apple says so. OK.
  - dagw 8y ago
    The general rule on HN is to use the same headline as the article you're linking to and not to editorialize in your title. So when you're linking to an Apple press release then of course it's Apple saying it.

aczerepinski 8y ago

I really wish I could buy a headless Mac with similar performance (including a real video card) and price. The mini doesn't quite meet my needs and the pro at $3k+ is way too expensive. These specs look good (although I would greatly prefer SSD) but I really don't want an extra monitor on my desk.

minikites 8y ago
The Mac Pro is also unchanged since 2013 (they're selling a six year old computer at full price).
jwr 8y ago
I'm curious: why would you want a headless machine with a real video card? If, as I'm guessing, you want to connect an external monitor, what would be your monitor choice (and how would you connect it) to get 5K? From my research, the iMac (or iMac Pro) was pretty much the only way to get a working non-crappy 5K setup.
- aczerepinski 8y ago
  I have a 27" LG 4k monitor that I connect to my work MacBook pro during the day. Then I'd like to flip a switch (or swap one plug) to use my personal computer with the same monitor. Currently that personal computer is a 2013 iMac sitting right next to my LG monitor but I'd love to get rid of it and free up the desk space.
  - jwr 8y ago
    Ok, thanks. That's a similar setup to mine, but I'm very tired of plugging, re-plugging, and using the stupid OSD menus in monitors. Plus, I really think that for 27" a 5K resolution is required.
nudded 8y ago
The mini + eGPU seems like it would be a candidate then?

sahin-boydas 8y ago

Did you guys see this? "iMac Pro now available with 256 GB RAM option … for an extra $5200" sort of pricey. https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/19/256-gb-ram-imac-pro/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/19/256-gb-ram-imac-pro/

auggierose 8y ago
also has one more added graphics option now
aboutruby 8y ago
Looks like it costs $3,381 off-the-shelf: https://www.avadirect.com/256GB-4-x-64GB-Quad-Rank-DDR4-2666MHz-CL19-ECC-Load-Reduced-Memory/Product/11428748 https://www.avadirect.com/256GB-4-x-64GB-Quad-Rank-DDR4-2666...
btown 8y ago
If you're buying a machine that needs 256 GB of RAM, presumably you or your company is using it for the type of graphics/video work that pays well enough to recoup $5200 in costs. The comparison is to professional equipment like cameras and audio interfaces, not to consumer products.

owenwil 8y ago

It seems to me this product is on life support and Apple is simply doing performance bumps to avoid big capex expenses on designing/tooling for something new? It ships with a 5,400 RPM disk, an outdated display technology, omits T2 chipset, doesn't include Face ID, nor any of their other innovations over the last year. It's actually egregious to stuff old hardware in a workable form factor and hock it, while ignoring that they're not backporting _any_ of their other innovations back to these devices. And that's not to mention: buying a $3500 screen glued to a computer is massively risky.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Well the Mac Mini got a recent refresh with decent processors, the new Mac Pro is reputedly just around the corner and there is a rumour they are going to release a new display soon. My guess is you are right, it's on life support.
drukenemo 8y ago
Outdated display tedhnology? Care to elaborate?

thomasjudge 8y ago

One word: hackintosh.

pier25 8y ago
I started fiddling with hackintoshes in 2010 and since then I've built maybe a dozen ones for me or my friends. I now own a 5K iMac. My time is worth more than the difference in price between a hackintosh and a real mac. Of course if you are in it for hardware freedom instead of cost then a hackintosh is your only option, but it's very difficult to get a perfect build and updating the OS is always a Russian roulette game.

raviojha 8y ago

Hey Apple! While you're on this upgrade sprint, I wish out of the blue, an iPhone SE 2 is also announced.

aboutruby 8y ago
The more time passes, the more it looks like they released an SE by mistake, still be best phone ever made IMHO but doesn't fit the strategy of upselling as much as possible.
- DanTheManPR 8y ago
  Reading your comment on my iPhone SE. It really is the best ultra-portable smartphone ever released :) I'm a bit puzzled as to why they don't just keep selling it, maybe with an upgraded SOC but no other new components. I don't think it would cannibalize sales of their mainline phones, and it would give lower income people a path to buy into their ecosystem. They're taking that approach with the iPad line. Maybe it didn't sell as well as I thought it did.

ojhughes 8y ago

I'm still running a 2012 iMac with fusion drive and it still feels slicker to me than a high spec Windows machine.

okmokmz 8y ago
What would you consider a "high spec" Windows machine?
- ojhughes 8y ago
  Dell XPS laptop from 2018.
  - slantyyz 8y ago
    That's not a high spec Windows machine, that's just a high spec Windows laptop.
    - ojhughes 8y ago
      High spec is subjective.. it’s high spec compared to a 2012 iMac
      - slantyyz 8y ago
        Well, it depends. Which particular 2018 XPS are you referring to? Some Passmark CPU comparisons: 2012 iMac with the i7 3770 - 9282 XPS 13 i7-8550U - 8305 XPS 15 i7-8750H -12477 (Note that XPS 15s tend to be thermally throttled also) Desktop i7 9700K - 17257 Desktop i9 9900X - 22883 Desktop Ryzen 2920X - 21920 A high spec laptop doesn't compare with a high spec desktop CPU, especially if it's a U class CPU like the ones used by the XPS 13 (which seems to be way more popular than the XPS 15). If you have an i7 2012 iMac, it still holds its own to any top end ultrabook (U) class CPU.

todd8 8y ago

It's just frustrating, I switched the household over to Apple devices when OSX came out, and now there really aren't any systems from Apple that look interesting to me. I've been programming since before the (Unix) dawn of time, and Apple devices have been good development machines for me since OSX was released 18 years ago. I'm comfortable on Linux, but the Apple iOS devices and computers are all over my home and integrate well with my development machines. Furthermore, the family does well with MacOS, and they don't need IT help with their email, iPhone, music, homework, printing, etc. like they used to under Windows. I'd love to see Apple make a system that supported upgradeable memory, SSDs, High capacity hard drives, graphics, and separate larger monitors, but that doesn't look like that will ever happen. By locking down the hardware to just certain configurations, the very successful stores can handle problems (hardware, software, and user related) at locations all over the world. Even if Apple can't make the machines more upgradeable because of customer support issues, the new machines don't seem to be well designed for me. They have become too thin and too sleek and overpriced because of features I don't want (over sharp display, touchbar) and issues caused by the pursuit of sleekness and style (crap keyboards, thermal limits). Lenovo (Thinkpads) offers thin, light, somewhat upgradeable, good looking laptops that are light to carry and easier to grip with great keyboards. I wish Apple could start with something like one of those and equip it with an Apple touchpad and MacOS. I've been waiting and waiting for Apple to improve its line up (I'm writing this on a Mac Pro from 2013 with a nice 34 inch ultra-wide monitor). It looks like I'll never replace it. I know there are alternatives, my home/office are littered with computers, Thinkpads running Linux, Microsoft laptops, Dell Servers running FreeBSD, and homemade PCs running Windows (for gaming); but I'm going to miss using MacOS as my daily-driver.

_fzslm 8y ago
> I'd love to see Apple make a system that supported upgradeable memory, SSDs, High capacity hard drives, graphics, and separate larger monitors, but that doesn't look like that will ever happen. You may want to keep your eyes out for the new Mac Pro that's meant to release this year.
- naravara 8y ago
  Even if the Mac Pro is the computer of all our dreams, I doubt it will meet the poster’s needs. Seems like they want a fairly bare-bones, minimalist and simple computer. I doubt a Mac Pro is going to come in at under $3.5k at the entry level.

randcraw 8y ago

And if you buy two of these, you get a 4X performance boost!

pier25 8y ago

I'm curious how the thermals will be with the i7 and i9 chips. The 2017 5K iMac had cooling problems with the infamous i7 7700K.

icedchai 8y ago

The iMac is a great machine. I have a late 2014 iMac 5K 27" and it's still going strong with 32 gigs of RAM and 512G SSD. It had the max CPU for the time (4.0 ghz i7.) Apple Care expired end of 2017, so unless the thing dies or OS upgrades become unsupported, I don't have a reason to upgrade it.

jillesvangurp 8y ago
Same here. My 3TB fusion drive died at some point but it lives on with just the 128GB ssd that came with that. Also, I connected an external 2 TB Samsung SSD to it which ended up being a nice performance upgrade as fusion drives are slow. Apple should just kill the fusion drive option; bad idea. You are better off with a proper ssd and external storage. I maxed out the specs at the time, which in retrospect was a good choice since it has lasted me for five years. The screen is awesome and with a quad core i7 and 32GB there's not a lot it can't do comfortably even today. Games are the exception as this is not a gaming machine. Yet, I regularly use x-plane on it as well and I get decent performance given that it is running on a laptop grade GPU that is five years old. It's actually more sensitive to CPU performance and the 4Ghz core i7 is still pretty nice. CPUs have gotten faster but not a lot in the last five years. Certainly they have not doubled in performance twice. Rip Moore's law, I guess. I don't run x-plane at native resolution because I gain a few FPS by using a slightly lower resolution but it is actually usable at native resolution if you can live with lower graphic settings. If you are into this, I maxed out most graphics settings like maximum objects, texture resolution, etc. but have reduced reflections to the minimum (kills performance with not a lot of visual impact) and reduced anti-aliasing settings and shadows as well. Tuning x-plane is a bit of dark art but generally it can look great on even modest hardware. I also use a lot (several hundreds of GB) of high resolution Ortho4XP scenery and and other custom scenery. Typically seeing between 20/30 FPS. So, looking pretty good and it uses the 32 GB. The AMD m295x with 4GB has been pretty good. It's a bit disappointing that five years later the state of the art Imac is essentially the same with a slightly newer CPU and GPU. Sure it will be faster but a 2x performance boost will only be true for software that maxes out all 8 cores. Still, nothing wrong with the vega and i9 combo. I'd take that provided there are no thermal issues. I had the same kind of disappointment when I replaced my 2012 MBP with a new one a bit over a year ago. My java build ended up roughly 30% faster only (maxing out all cores). I suspect my comparatively ancient iMac might be faster.

Geee 8y ago

It seems that the price point of i9+32GB+1TB SSD+Vega 48 is about the same price ($5000) as the baseline iMac Pro. Imac Pro comes with Xeon processor and Vega 56 though. Is the iMac Pro better at this price point?

IloveHN84 8y ago
For that price tag, I can build a full server with more pimped specs and that can do much more. 5000$ are too much
- Geee 8y ago
  There aren't really options if you want the form factor, silent operation and MacOS. Also, I won't be upgrading my main work computer in at least 5 years. I'm now on 2011 iMac which is still a great computer, but unfortunately can't be updated to the latest MacOS any more.

vgoh1 8y ago

Proof that Apple has anorexia: 5mm thin on the outer edge of the all-in-one computer and monitor. Thinner than a lot of monitor-only's everywhere else. What is the purpose? Who would not trade a thicker stationary monitor for better upgrade-ability and/or a cheaper price? Look behind your monitor - odds are, it's just a bunch of empty space behind it on your desk. I would love to be a little bird on the wall in the Apple strategy meetings where they decided that iMacs need to be that thin. I still have an old iMac G3 kicking around from 1999. It's over a foot deep, just takes up the empty space behind the screen on the desk - no big deal.

infotogivenm 8y ago
As a counterpoint: Aesthetics matter to a non-trivial percentage of computer users. I love the iMac’s design and it was a pretty big selling point to me and differentiated the model from the other available desktops. I use an arm-style mount and couldnt be happier with the overall lack of wires and thin aesthetics.

amedvednikov 8y ago

5400RPM HDD in 2019

mythz 8y ago

I’ve always had a fondness for the iMac which I’ve been using as my main Desktop since the last PowerPC version, IMO they’ve always been a mark of the best all-in-one of the day, lots of people like to focus on the internals but it ignores the noise and clutter free desktop and top build quality I’ve enjoyed for over a decade. I’ve upgraded 4 times since and am currently enjoying the iMac 5k, this floating screen is beautiful on the inside and out, the 5k is gorgeous and its form factor is near perfect, still just a single power cord disappearing out from behind it and wireless for everything else. I’ve got the high-end version with Max CPU and SSD so I’ll skip this version but will in all likelihood get the next unless someone ships a better all-in-one, which never happens.

villgax 8y ago

I'm going Razer for higher-end upgradeable laptops & custom builds for anything which isn't going to be portable.

xhruso00 8y ago

Cool HW, however fusion drive in 2019? Apple wake up!

JoshTriplett 8y ago

I just wish there was a way to run OSX on a high-performance server, or a cloud virtual machine, for continuous-integration purposes. The iMac Pro doesn't cut it, and is a pain to host anywhere. I'd like to test-build applications for OSX alongside CI builds for Linux and Windows, and there's no sensible, legal, scalable solution for that.

bradknowles 8y ago
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pdq 8y ago

@dang typo: This has been up for 5 hours with the title "Apply" instead of "Apple"?

dang 8y ago
Typing fail—sorry! The submitted title was "iMac gets a 2x performance boost" but I changed that about 15 minutes before you posted, because we try to avoid press-release language on HN.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

paul7986 8y ago

“Apply,”.... is now making Macs wonder what “Apple,” thinks of this?

scarface74 8y ago

An interview with the iMac product manager. Mostly a fluff piece but Jason Snell did ask about the continued use of non SSD hard drives. (Link will bring up a web page if you don’t have Overcast.) https://overcast.fm/+Fcm8vPRGM https://overcast.fm/+Fcm8vPRGM

turboturbo 8y ago

If you’re in the market for this model, do yourself a favour and don’t buy the base configuration with the unusably slow 5400 rpm HDD. I bought the previous model with that hard drive and the startup performance is appalling

locusm 8y ago

If you're intending to Bootcamp your iMac, remember that Windows will only use the slow AF spinning rust portion of the fusion drive. The SSD is worth it in this case.

jtotheh 8y ago

it's easy to add an external SSD to an iMac, install the OS on it and configure it to boot off of it. I have gotten great performance out of an old iMac by doing this.