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If a game doesn't offer any way to pay to remove ads, it's an instant uninstall for me. If a game does offer it, but doesn't let me play for long enough to dec

If a game doesn't offer any way to pay to remove ads, it's an instant uninstall for me. If a game does offer it, but doesn't let me play for long enough to decide whether I like the game before it starts serving up unskippable ads, I uninstall it. Most games simply don't give enough time to decide if you even like it before they start throwing ads at you. That seems like a terrible policy in general, regardless of whether you have a "skip ads" IAP or not. You want to wait until the player has made up their mind about your game before you start degrading the experience. This seems like such an obvious thing I don't know why so many games are so bad about it.

luxuryballs 8y ago
I’m about to release a fun little ambient physics based puzzle game on iOS and have been debating this. To me ads are a stain on what I consider my art. But at the same time I want to monetize and wonder if people will skip over a $1.99 download. What do you think? Ads with the option to unlock? Seems gross though... maybe free with paid version that includes level editor or additional level packs?
- hiccuphippo 8y ago
  Maybe release a couple of levels for free and if they like it they can buy the full game?
  - HenryBemis 8y ago
    I have made an app for iOS, and it is about helping children between on the ages 4-8 read. It took me 1 second to decide "free with ads" vs "0.99". It costs 0.99, and I don't regret the 'small' sales. I prefer that people's children are not tracked by advertisers, facebook (that bloody ping on 31.13.x.x) and other trackers.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Is sales income less than you'd expect with ads?
    - lupire 8y ago
      I'm surprised that COPPA allows devs to have geo-tracking of users who haven't confirmed they are over 13.
- umvi 8y ago
  I just released a (beta) puzzle game on Google Play, and what I decided to do was make ads 100% opt-in but also have an IAP for removing even those. It definitely will not generate as much revenue as an aggressively ad-monetized one, but hopefully it's still profitable.
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  I think the classic "shareware demo" model is a good one, have some free stuff to introduce the user and make sure they like the game, then give them a wall and tell them to pay if they want more. It's fair to them and fair to you. It doesn't violate their privacy, it makes sure your customers actually want to be your customers (reducing chargebacks because the game has an issue for someone) and you get paid without polluting your art.
  - Yhippa 8y ago
    I love the shareware concept. I think ads and baiting people into MTX due to the psychology of humans is making companies too much money to ignore.
  - jermaustin1 8y ago
    I miss this model for games. Demo disks were my favorite thing in the world. I'd play a demo a dozen times or so before I decided that it was worth begging a parent to buy the game for me.
    - copperx 8y ago
      It has been a long time since I played games, but I thought games still had demos. In Steam, do you have to buy a game before playing it?
      - jermaustin1 8y ago
        Unless it is a Free to Play game, you pay before you play. Some Early Access games start out free, but less and less now days.
      - fenwick67 8y ago
        Some games do have demos, but not that many.
      - GhostVII 8y ago
        In steam you can return for a full refund if you have played less than 2 hours within the first 14 days, so you effectively get a 2 hour demo.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  IIRC the stats from the last time I published a mobile game, iPhone users were significantly more likely to actually pay for things so it's probably ok to just charge money. Personally, I did ads with paid feature unlock and ad removal because I was publishing on Android.
- newscracker 8y ago
  Free features to get the user to get used to the game and figure it out, and paid features that are unlocked. App pricing is somewhat tricky, since most people hesitate to even pay $0.99. I personally wouldn’t just buy something without knowing if I’d like it or not. Descriptions and reviews may not always help in knowing that. Actually playing it certainly would. Also consider keeping some exciting or challenging parts in the free set so that users can know what more to expect if they pay.
- yoz-y 8y ago
  For a productivity app I have seen night and day difference in earnings between "paid upfront" and "free with iap". I started with the paid model and switched to freemium. In the months after the initial boost due to "apps gone free" scrapper sites I got as many iap sales in a month that I had accumulated in two years while the app was paid. Paid upfront model is dead on iOS, unless you are some big shot company that will have their application featured on day 1.
- newen 8y ago
  For what it's worth, the only Android games I've ever paid money for are Snakebird, Ending, Super Hexagon, and a chess training app, and if I remember correctly all four were free no ads with paid additional levels. I am the type of person who deletes apps with too many ads. Look up Ending for a good model to emulate (it was a pleasant experience and it has a level editor) though I remember it having too few levels since I played through them very quickly.
- gcbw2 8y ago
  Free with donation/extra for features. I don't know why people even consider ads for games. If a game/application has the "have ads" under the install button, i don't even install it to check it out. Because I know that even if i am not seeing ads, the framework is underneath the game, collecting data just the same.
- simongr3dal 8y ago
  Unless I know of your earlier games or I've had it recommended to me either personally or if you're lucky enough to be chosen for the Editor's Pick on the App Store i'm not very likely to pay for a game or apps in general. I think level packs are pretty much a match made in heaven for puzzle type games, as are selling credits for hints. Be sure to include at one or a few hours of gameplay for free, that seems like a nice balance. Updating with new level packs every now and then (both paid and free) is a good way to keep people excited and get additional income from people who really enjoy the game. Selling additional color/texture themes might also be a way to increase sales.
- lupire 8y ago
  Free, with $pay option for cosmetic upgrades, bonus levels, more save-game ability, and another non-core gameplay features. Gentle house ads to upgrade to the paid version for more fun.
- marcosdumay 8y ago
  Publish it with ads; don't push enough ads that they take a relevant share of the player's time; if you have calm periods (like changing levels) prefer quick full screen ads on those periods; offer the option to pay for making the ads go away; make sure the ads really go away after somebody pays. That is the best "user friendly, but viable" option I've seen in the wild.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    As a user, that wouldn't work for me. The problem isn't the ads themselves, but that the presence of ads is proof positive that I'm being spied on.
    - nybble41 8y ago
      > the presence of ads is proof positive that I'm being spied on There is such a thing as non-targeted advertising. An app developer can solicit money from sponsors to have their ads included in the app and displayed at particular times without sending any data back to either the developer or the advertiser. This is how advertising worked back before every app started demanding a continuous Internet connection even for basic non-network functions.
      - JohnFen 8y ago
        Yes, there is indeed. But it's very rare, and I can't tell whether or not those are the sorts of ads being used, so I have to assume they're all bad. Almost all app developers who include advertising are using third party libraries to do the ads, after all.
- dlivingston 8y ago
  I'm working on an iOS game as well, and my plan of attack is to have a 'donate' button with different tiers ($1, $3, $5) that gets treated internally as an in-app purchase.
- godelski 8y ago
  My personal opinion can be distilled from what the OP said. Let us try the game first. I'm happy to buy games, especially since I can get playstore credit from surveys. But if you bombard me with ads (at any point) I'll actually take the time to rate your app. I don't have a problem with ads, I have a problem with intrusive ads and dark patterns. But lure me in. Show me your game is fun. With a puzzle based game you can have the first couple levels be free then make a popup about continue with ads or upgrade. I'd respect that a lot.
winrid 8y ago
All this feedback is great. I'm working on a little competitive multiplayer game for Android (and soon iOS) as a side project. I was thinking about showing ads after every other match w/ the option to pay out and now I think I'll only show them past a certain rank, or just put up a pay wall.
- gameshot911 8y ago
  Keep in mind that the HN crowd is not always reflective of the broader population. There is a reason apps show adds they way they do - it's very effective in making a lot of $$.
  - eridius 8y ago
    The highest-grossing apps on the app store are not the ones that are crammed full of unskippable ads. Don't mistake that being a popular model for being an effective one.
- blihp 8y ago
  Just keep mind that doing what you're proposing will probably cost you 90%+ of your revenue. I'd recommend simply not being abusive with ads (either showing excessive numbers or working with shady ad networks) and offer the small segment of your users willing to pay an IAP to opt out of the ads.
JohnFen 8y ago
> If a game doesn't offer any way to pay to remove ads, it's an instant uninstall for me You're more lenient than I am. I uninstall any application the instant I see an ad.

luxuryballs 8y ago

I’m about to release a fun little ambient physics based puzzle game on iOS and have been debating this. To me ads are a stain on what I consider my art. But at the same time I want to monetize and wonder if people will skip over a $1.99 download. What do you think? Ads with the option to unlock? Seems gross though... maybe free with paid version that includes level editor or additional level packs?

hiccuphippo 8y ago
Maybe release a couple of levels for free and if they like it they can buy the full game?
- HenryBemis 8y ago
  I have made an app for iOS, and it is about helping children between on the ages 4-8 read. It took me 1 second to decide "free with ads" vs "0.99". It costs 0.99, and I don't regret the 'small' sales. I prefer that people's children are not tracked by advertisers, facebook (that bloody ping on 31.13.x.x) and other trackers.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Is sales income less than you'd expect with ads?
  - lupire 8y ago
    I'm surprised that COPPA allows devs to have geo-tracking of users who haven't confirmed they are over 13.
umvi 8y ago
I just released a (beta) puzzle game on Google Play, and what I decided to do was make ads 100% opt-in but also have an IAP for removing even those. It definitely will not generate as much revenue as an aggressively ad-monetized one, but hopefully it's still profitable.
shittyadmin 8y ago
I think the classic "shareware demo" model is a good one, have some free stuff to introduce the user and make sure they like the game, then give them a wall and tell them to pay if they want more. It's fair to them and fair to you. It doesn't violate their privacy, it makes sure your customers actually want to be your customers (reducing chargebacks because the game has an issue for someone) and you get paid without polluting your art.
- Yhippa 8y ago
  I love the shareware concept. I think ads and baiting people into MTX due to the psychology of humans is making companies too much money to ignore.
- jermaustin1 8y ago
  I miss this model for games. Demo disks were my favorite thing in the world. I'd play a demo a dozen times or so before I decided that it was worth begging a parent to buy the game for me.
  - copperx 8y ago
    It has been a long time since I played games, but I thought games still had demos. In Steam, do you have to buy a game before playing it?
    - jermaustin1 8y ago
      Unless it is a Free to Play game, you pay before you play. Some Early Access games start out free, but less and less now days.
    - fenwick67 8y ago
      Some games do have demos, but not that many.
    - GhostVII 8y ago
      In steam you can return for a full refund if you have played less than 2 hours within the first 14 days, so you effectively get a 2 hour demo.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
IIRC the stats from the last time I published a mobile game, iPhone users were significantly more likely to actually pay for things so it's probably ok to just charge money. Personally, I did ads with paid feature unlock and ad removal because I was publishing on Android.
newscracker 8y ago
Free features to get the user to get used to the game and figure it out, and paid features that are unlocked. App pricing is somewhat tricky, since most people hesitate to even pay $0.99. I personally wouldn’t just buy something without knowing if I’d like it or not. Descriptions and reviews may not always help in knowing that. Actually playing it certainly would. Also consider keeping some exciting or challenging parts in the free set so that users can know what more to expect if they pay.
yoz-y 8y ago
For a productivity app I have seen night and day difference in earnings between "paid upfront" and "free with iap". I started with the paid model and switched to freemium. In the months after the initial boost due to "apps gone free" scrapper sites I got as many iap sales in a month that I had accumulated in two years while the app was paid. Paid upfront model is dead on iOS, unless you are some big shot company that will have their application featured on day 1.
newen 8y ago
For what it's worth, the only Android games I've ever paid money for are Snakebird, Ending, Super Hexagon, and a chess training app, and if I remember correctly all four were free no ads with paid additional levels. I am the type of person who deletes apps with too many ads. Look up Ending for a good model to emulate (it was a pleasant experience and it has a level editor) though I remember it having too few levels since I played through them very quickly.
gcbw2 8y ago
Free with donation/extra for features. I don't know why people even consider ads for games. If a game/application has the "have ads" under the install button, i don't even install it to check it out. Because I know that even if i am not seeing ads, the framework is underneath the game, collecting data just the same.
simongr3dal 8y ago
Unless I know of your earlier games or I've had it recommended to me either personally or if you're lucky enough to be chosen for the Editor's Pick on the App Store i'm not very likely to pay for a game or apps in general. I think level packs are pretty much a match made in heaven for puzzle type games, as are selling credits for hints. Be sure to include at one or a few hours of gameplay for free, that seems like a nice balance. Updating with new level packs every now and then (both paid and free) is a good way to keep people excited and get additional income from people who really enjoy the game. Selling additional color/texture themes might also be a way to increase sales.
lupire 8y ago
Free, with $pay option for cosmetic upgrades, bonus levels, more save-game ability, and another non-core gameplay features. Gentle house ads to upgrade to the paid version for more fun.
marcosdumay 8y ago
Publish it with ads; don't push enough ads that they take a relevant share of the player's time; if you have calm periods (like changing levels) prefer quick full screen ads on those periods; offer the option to pay for making the ads go away; make sure the ads really go away after somebody pays. That is the best "user friendly, but viable" option I've seen in the wild.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  As a user, that wouldn't work for me. The problem isn't the ads themselves, but that the presence of ads is proof positive that I'm being spied on.
  - nybble41 8y ago
    > the presence of ads is proof positive that I'm being spied on There is such a thing as non-targeted advertising. An app developer can solicit money from sponsors to have their ads included in the app and displayed at particular times without sending any data back to either the developer or the advertiser. This is how advertising worked back before every app started demanding a continuous Internet connection even for basic non-network functions.
    - JohnFen 8y ago
      Yes, there is indeed. But it's very rare, and I can't tell whether or not those are the sorts of ads being used, so I have to assume they're all bad. Almost all app developers who include advertising are using third party libraries to do the ads, after all.
dlivingston 8y ago
I'm working on an iOS game as well, and my plan of attack is to have a 'donate' button with different tiers ($1, $3, $5) that gets treated internally as an in-app purchase.
godelski 8y ago
My personal opinion can be distilled from what the OP said. Let us try the game first. I'm happy to buy games, especially since I can get playstore credit from surveys. But if you bombard me with ads (at any point) I'll actually take the time to rate your app. I don't have a problem with ads, I have a problem with intrusive ads and dark patterns. But lure me in. Show me your game is fun. With a puzzle based game you can have the first couple levels be free then make a popup about continue with ads or upgrade. I'd respect that a lot.

winrid 8y ago

All this feedback is great. I'm working on a little competitive multiplayer game for Android (and soon iOS) as a side project. I was thinking about showing ads after every other match w/ the option to pay out and now I think I'll only show them past a certain rank, or just put up a pay wall.

gameshot911 8y ago
Keep in mind that the HN crowd is not always reflective of the broader population. There is a reason apps show adds they way they do - it's very effective in making a lot of $$.
- eridius 8y ago
  The highest-grossing apps on the app store are not the ones that are crammed full of unskippable ads. Don't mistake that being a popular model for being an effective one.
blihp 8y ago
Just keep mind that doing what you're proposing will probably cost you 90%+ of your revenue. I'd recommend simply not being abusive with ads (either showing excessive numbers or working with shady ad networks) and offer the small segment of your users willing to pay an IAP to opt out of the ads.

JohnFen 8y ago

> If a game doesn't offer any way to pay to remove ads, it's an instant uninstall for me You're more lenient than I am. I uninstall any application the instant I see an ad.