14 ms·

Amazon is buying Eero

318 points by mikece 8y ago

torstenvl 8y ago
I'm surprised that so many people here own an eero or were going to buy one. Last I checked, they required a sign-in and were completely unusable if the Internet connection went down. The router simply will not work if it can't phone home. Is that no longer the case? If Amazon fixes that, I'd almost be more likely to buy one (if I ever get tired of my AmpliFi HD). EDIT: Looks like eeroOS 3.9 was supposed to have fixed network persistence a few months ago, but no word on whether you still need to sign up for an account to use it. Can anyone confirm? https://community.eero.com/t/m26cfr/offline-wlan-access https://community.eero.com/t/m26cfr/offline-wlan-access
- monochromatic 8y ago
  The network still functions when the internet connection goes down. I think you do need an account though.
- epc 8y ago
  I don't use eero+ (their managed firewall service) and run my eeros in bridge mode behind an ISP router/firewall…so with those caveats: my wifi has stayed up even when the uplink to the ISP is down. I have not tried managing the wifi when this has happened so it's possible that the app doesn't work.
nodesocket 8y ago
Nice acquisition. Should help them integrate Alexa into a single box that provides router, WiFi, and switch.
- obenn 8y ago
  Nice from a business perspective for sure. I shudder as a privacy conscious consumer.
  - corobo 8y ago
    Indeed. Just seen in my Twitter feed via @LaurenGoode [1] > Every Eero that’s connected ends up spitting out data to help us understand how our iPhone’s performing, how our Sonos speaker’s performing, how is Alexa performing, and we use that aggregated data to keep improving our software. [1] https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1095084761796685824 https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1095084761796685824
    - creeble 8y ago
      Wow -- I wonder what data they're going to collect once they're Amazon. Need a canary for https://eero.com/legal/privacy https://eero.com/legal/privacy . Look for the string "URI" or "URL" to see when they start collecting browsing data.
      - wmf 8y ago
        Routers can't see URLs now that everything is HTTPS but they could still collect valuable site-level metadata.
        JohnFen 8y ago
        Except in networks like mine -- I MITM all HTTPS traffic in my network so that I can detect and handle threats that use HTTPS to hide themselves from my defenses.
        kpcyrd 8y ago
        How often do you run into certificate pinning issues?
        JohnFen 8y ago
        I haven't, to the best of my knowledge.
        trumped 8y ago
whoisjuan 8y ago
It's clear that Amazon doesn't mess around. They're literally going into bull-dozer mode to capture all the connected home market. It frankly makes Google look extremely slow, especially with how hard it has been for them to make sense of that Nest acquisition, in early 2014.
- drcross 8y ago
  Google wifi is a solid product, but needs a completely separate backhaul network for client mesh handover. Once set up properly it's unbelievably good in a larger house.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - nodesocket 8y ago
    I don't think we are advocating that Google smart home products are not quality products. We are just saying that they are very slow to move, and at this pace Amazon is going to crush them. This also goes for Apple.
    - MBCook 8y ago
      As slow as Apple was moving, they flat out gave up a few years ago when they stopped making AirPorts. Apple should have bought eero.
      - nodesocket 8y ago
        Apple is still trying with HomePod. It is a nice product, but the price point is crazy stupid. This is coming from an Apple shareholder who loves their premium prices. I don't know anybody who bought HomePod. I've been waiting for Apple to make a big acquisition for years. Beats!!! Really?
        MBCook 8y ago
ballenf 8y ago
How long until the adblocking, privacy features (Eero Plus) go away now? I'm guessing it will just slowly start getting glitchier until they pull it due to "low consumer demand". As an Eero customer and owner of zero commercial eavesdropping hubs, I'm not happy about this.
- vuln 8y ago
  What happens when Amazon bans you from price checking in their store... I mean your living room. Whoops. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/06/16/amazon-has-a-patent-to-keep-you-from-comparison-shopping-while-youre-in-its-stores/?utm_term=.9628433866e2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/06/1...
- kolanos 8y ago
  Just swap it out with Google Wifi. Oh wait...
  - Deinos 8y ago
    Ubiquiti and Netgear are still out there with decent consumer mesh kits... for now...
    - Someone1234 8y ago
      Ubiquiti's consumer stuff is kind of bad (AmpliFi). I like their small business grade gear however (Unifi, and EdgeMax). Definitely wouldn't recommend it to most consumers however, it is Prosumer/Enthusiast level or above.
      - r00fus 8y ago
        Why is AmpliFi bad? I'd honestly like to hear.
        mead5432 8y ago
        I had one of the early models of the AmpliFi. It was generally pretty solid. We have a really old house with a lot of brick and plaster and it did well at filling the house with wifi when other routers came up short. We got gigabit internet and it just sort of collapsed. I think newer versions are better equipped for that speed but ours couldn't seem to get past 100 mbps. I thought their support was really good though. The main issue I have with it is that, for some reason, they were unable to identify my model number as being an older version that didn't support gigabit. They were super helpful but could have saved us both some time if they just paid closer attention to the model number. I opted for the Netgear Orbi; good reviews and satellites capable of up to ~800 mbps in ideal situations.
post_break 8y ago
I wonder how some of the tech podcasters will react to this. Feels like on the ATP podcast they are constantly talking about how great Eero is. Wonder if that will change.
- ProAm 8y ago
  That's just advertising. They will accept sponsorship from many many companies.
  - sotojuan 8y ago
    ATP and Mac Power Users hosts actually own and use Eero routers, though.
    - ProAm 8y ago
      Using a product and hosting commercials for them are two different things though. If Eero stops being a sponsor Im positive there will be another company to fill that slot, its a popular podcast with a large audience reach.
      - sotojuan 8y ago
        Yeah sure I just meant they aren't just saying it's awesome and not actually use it. I don't know about ATP but a lot of the apps that sponsor Mac Power Users are apps the hosts used before sponsorship was even considered, so I trust them a bit more.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Marco has said plenty of times that you can pay him to do an ad read but not for a personal endorsement if he doesn’t use the product. Marco Arment is not exactly a starving indie developer and podcaster between the equity he had in Tumblr. Whatever he got from selling Instapaper, running his own successful ad network for Overcast. On top of that, he was an early investor in Gimlet Media that just got acquired.
JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
The six page memo wrote itself on this one. Ensures there is an Alexa in every room, since you are supposed to have an Eero in every room for it to work right.
- ec109685 8y ago
  You don’t need eero in every room. That is a total overkill. Agree Alexa with WiFi mesh routing is a no brainer though.
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    "Alexa data mine my whole life"
mikeklaas 8y ago
Sigh, now amazon owns my home wifi system. That's super reassuring...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
sotojuan 8y ago
Hm, was going to purchase one because some of my favorite podcasts, Mac Power Users and ATP, rave about it. I'm not sure how I feel about Eero now. I don't have any Amazon smart thing and not sure I want one.
- macintux 8y ago
  I have the same qualms. It’s disappointing, I need something to replace my aging Airport infrastructure.
  - tunesmith 8y ago
    Yeah, I'm stuck with the same thoughts now. Eero was what I was going to use since they were independent. It's just that Airport is still currently good enough for my needs. There's Ubiquiti but it seems like configuration overkill.
- wmf 8y ago
  Buy it now before they add a microphone to it? But it may go on an incredible journey.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    Do you want them watching all your network traffic? Not having a microphone doesn’t allay my fears.
    - wmf 8y ago
      I didn't even think about that. Onavo showed that simple usage metadata is really valuable.
    - JohnFen 8y ago
      Not to mention that there's apparently no way to know for sure if a device has a microphone or not in the first place.
  - munk-a 8y ago
lifeisstillgood 8y ago
Slightly different subject but does anyone know the state of play in (for want of better term) "public mesh" provision - having routers talk directly to neighboring routers and forming advocates local networks (possibly with mobile included?) It's an area I often think could truly bring about decentralisation but it seems quiet
- zchrykng 8y ago
  Yeah, no. I'm not letting anyone I don't know access any part of my network/connection.
- ransford 8y ago
  Not an answer to your question, but: this is how Meraki started in the previous decade, as RoofNet at MIT [1], then as an independent company building wonderful idiot-proof mesh networking gear. I keep hoping another team of students somewhere will come up with RoofNet's spiritual successor, but interest in stitching together community meshes seems to be waning as everyone gets excited about 5G. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20060831053126/http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php https://web.archive.org/web/20060831053126/http://pdos.csail...
rsweeney21 8y ago
I've been using Eero for our home wifi for several years now. It works reasonably well and the family settings are great for controlling screen time for my kids. I also use it to help control my own screen time. With eero I can set up a schedule to force myself to unplug from work and the internet on a regular basis. I'm hoping Amazon makes Eero Plus free for prime users.
vermontdevil 8y ago
Does traffic that currently goes through Eero products also go through their cloud servers if they have any? I don’t have these products so am wondering if this is something they do. For sure it’ll be an area of concern.
- srmn 8y ago
  From what I understand from using the product personally, unless you sign up for Eero Plus, it does not. You can also use them in bridge mode with a separate router in which they simply act as a mesh of wifi access points and don't do any routing or DHCP, but obviously they'd still have access to the frames of anything going over wireless and the ability to read their contents if they'd like, since they'd be the ones doing the encryption.
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
Hah, followed this twitter post, https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1095084761796685824 https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1095084761796685824, from another commenter that leads to the Eero CEO on an episode of Too Embarrassed to Ask from 2017. This question from the interviewer is now pretty ironic: > KS: I say one of the biggest things is that you don’t want Google messing around in your home. Honestly, half of my decisions are made like that, and now I don’t want as much Amazon in there because I buy everything now because I’m at Whole Foods. It’s fascinating. Part of it is that idea as an independent. You don’t want those two or three companies to really dominate every single data interaction you have, which is a plus for you guys, presumably. > Our business model is to sell you a premium product and that’s our business. From https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16135384/transcript-eero-ceo-nick-weaver-answers-wi-fi-mesh-router-questions-podcast https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16135384/transcript-eero-ce...
- sotojuan 8y ago
  Everyone has a price!
  - TrainedMonkey 8y ago
    and a time.
  - mulmen 8y ago
    Re-read the post carefully, the interviewer is commenting about Google and Amazon owning data. The CEOs response is still consistent with being bought by Amazon.
- theNJR 8y ago
  This is such a tricky thing. I like to speak honestly, and I use my blog/newsletter to help formulate my thinking about the world. But, always, in the back of my head, I think "should I really say that about Apple/Amazon/Google/etc)?" Self censorship is a tricky beast.
  - hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
newnewpdro 8y ago
No Eero employees chiming in? I don't think they were in the money, and suspect there are some seriously disappointed shareholders right now.
- BayAreaSmayArea 8y ago
  $90M in funding according to crunchbase, https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/eero/funding_rounds/funding_rounds_list https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/eero/funding_rounds/..., and it's been almost 3 years since the last one.
btmiller 8y ago
Some acquisitions make sense, some don't, but the propensity for founders and investors to push for an exit depresses the free market consumer in me. I want lots and lots of choices for anything I consider buying, yet nearly every acquisition making headlines lately seems like it falls into 1 of 2 categories: 1) a marketshare power grab, or 2) a mechanism to gather more customer data to an already massive empire. Somewhat related: are there any viable open source mesh network solutions for home use?
- css 8y ago
  Yes, but it’s a hassle: https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linking_Routers https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linking_Routers
- jwr 8y ago
  I sometimes explain to my customers that a self-funded long-term stable business is more viable than a VC-funded startup. I run a SaaS app for electronic parts inventory and production (https://partsbox.io/ https://partsbox.io/). In discussions, I ask customers to imagine which of the possible outcomes of a VC-funded startup would be good for them as customers (hint: none of the possible outcomes are good for customers, with the possible exception of a rare unicorn IPO).
  - s17n 8y ago
    The problem with this type of business is that the business is typically in a position where the loss of one or two key people will basically kill it. What if you get board and decide to move on with your life? The bottom line is that a niche product is always going to be at risk regardless of the structure of the business that produces it.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      You escrow your code and your customers get it if the business doesn't work out (built into their paid plan/tier). You get to eat and grow the business, their business doesn't stop if you get bored, die, or run out of money.
theNJR 8y ago
Part of why I loved my Eero was that wasn't Google or Amazon controlled. Sigh...
r00fus 8y ago
This is one reason I refused to consider Eero in my "Apple is ditching AirPort line, look for secure replacement" flight. Glad I settled on Ubiquiti. If anything, given their leadership background, they'd be acquired by Apple.
- dba7dba 8y ago
  I understand that Ubiquiti sells more than just wifi routers. BUT still, it makes me chuckle that Apple would kill off AirPort, product that was well liked by customers, only to buy (I mean IF the did) a WHOLE new company that includes a wifi router in the product lineup.
- ksec 8y ago
  Highly unlikely. Ubnt has lots of Enterprise things which Apple has no use. Apple focus on Consumer segment. Ubnt is prosumer / Enterprise.
bedhead 8y ago
Amplifi from Ubiquiti has by far the best networking gear if you just need a simple plug-and-play mesh network for your house.
dawhizkid 8y ago
Funny how Apple got out of the router game...
wpdev_63 8y ago
It makes me a bit uneasy using anything amazon related as they have large contracts with the US military[0]. Granted the personal could be completely insular but why take the chance? [0]:https://aws.amazon.com/government-education/defense/ https://aws.amazon.com/government-education/defense/
bubblethink 8y ago
I don't get the number of people complaining about "Oh, what is going to happen to my data ?". What did you think was going to happen in the first place ? If you possess time/skill, hack on openwrt. If you don't have time/skill, but have money, buy enterprise gear. If you have neither time, nor skill, nor money, and want shiny toys, what do you think will happen ? How many times do these patterns have to repeat before people stop buying lowest common consumer garbage ?
- Marsymars 8y ago
  Enterprise gear for home use if you don't have time/skill doesn't really work unless you also have money to pay an enterprise professional to configure your home network.
aeturnum 8y ago
Goddamnit, I liked my Eeros. I guess I need to decide if I want to forever monitor the changes Amazon makes to their functionality or switch router makers.
vuln 8y ago
So if Amazon doesn't have any stores (sans whole foods) and recently received a patent to ban 'in-store' price checking[1]. Now every time you connect to and Eero, you're on amazon's network, your home is their showroom... Good luck [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/06/16/amazon-has-a-patent-to-keep-you-from-comparison-shopping-while-youre-in-its-stores/?utm_term=.9628433866e2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/06/1...
- ravenstine 8y ago
  How this is patentable is beyond me. https://patents.google.com/patent/US9665881B1/en?oq=9665881 https://patents.google.com/patent/US9665881B1/en?oq=9665881 I should revisit the unoriginal crap I've got on my GitHub and try to patent it.
NoblePublius 8y ago
If you buy an Alexa router you might as well run a patch cable directly to the NSA.
- mindslight 8y ago
  But the entire point of products like this is to not have to run patch cables! At least direct NSA backhauls are only analyzed and acted upon by the slow moving government. Commercial surveillance is more agile in both regards, and then passed off to the government anyway. The true pity of these products is the decommodification of Wifi. Meaning rather than hardware manufacturers competing to bring us ever-faster radios, the market will slouch into just competing over who supports the recent batch of throwaway firmware features.
mises 8y ago
I was considering buying one. Not any more. I don't have an alexa or google home or any other "smart" home device, and don't plan to get one. The hard part will be when they integrate such software into every appliance. Anyone have any idea what those of us concerned about privacy will do then? Also, I still don't get what the point of having a "digital assistant" in all my appliances is. Can anyone explain?
- Retric 8y ago
  Most mart TV’s for example are DOA at this point. It’s still included becase it’s extremely cheap to do so, but don’t confuse sales with useage. Really, if your selling a 4K TV adding under 10$ in components to make it smart for say 10% of people that who care is an easy choice. Especially, if you can turn this into a secondary revenue source. “The numbers reveal that usage of Samsung Smart TV (Tizen), which is the only platform large enough to break out as a separate category, fell by 16% year-over-year, measured in viewing hours.” https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1533727378 https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=...
  - mises 8y ago
    This was a massive issue the last time I looked at upgrading to a newer tv. I don't want the "smart" bs, because it wears out very quickly. So I'm still on a 20-year-old crt. Also, seriously: why is there no option to drop to a root shell on such devices? I could at least make them work reasonably well for longer periods with access to the operating system. One of the primary concerns: new streaming service comes along -> exclusive content shows up on new streaming service -> 3-yr-old tv doesn't have app published in the "store" for said service -> tv is obsolete even though the panel is fine. If root was available, a modding community would likely develop, allowing longer device life. Why haven't the environmentalists taken this one up? Forget modularity/upgradeability/right to repair etc., let people maintain the hardware that's already working. Massive e-waste problem.
    - dangrossman 8y ago
      Your primary concern is a problem that doesn't exist. A smart TV with an obsolete app store is just a TV. It will still be a TV in 20 years like the one you're using now. If there's a new streaming service it doesn't support, you plug a Chromecast or a Roku or whatever device does support it into the HDMI port. I have a smart TV, but I have never connected it to the internet or used the built-in apps, and will never need to. It's just an ordinary TV that has some extra "inputs" I don't use. I'm never going to have to throw it out because I don't have a root shell... why would I need that?
EGreg 8y ago
Can someone explain what is “mesh” about this
gnicholas 8y ago
Time for Apple to put WiFi on their HomePods.
- frou_dh 8y ago
  Like the idea, but the only snag is that placement of the HomePod in the house would become compromised because it'd have to be a balance between where makes most sense for music/voice vs. where makes most sense for WiFi coverage. Selling multiple at $350 each just for WiFi range extension is probably beyond even Apple's marketing.
Pxtl 8y ago
Having gone through a couple of stinker routers that cost me over $100 a piece, and having friends with similar stories, I'm thinking consumers are ready to spend properly on good name-brand wifi. Netgear can die in a fire.
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  > Netgear can die in a fire. Netgear's Orbi WAPs are excellent, though.
- Marsymars 8y ago
  Maybe your friends are better off than mine, but I've had a hell of a time recommending Eero for performance, security and stability when a single base station is $280, and my friends can get a model off Amazon that "just works" for $30.
  - pfranz 8y ago
    Those $30 routers die after a year or two and seem to constantly have trouble in the interim--but I know exactly what you mean. I've gone out and purchased things for close friends and family just because I have to hear about it or support it.
monochromatic 8y ago
Am I wrong to assume Amazon will be slurping as much private data (browsing habits etc.) as possible?
glenrivard 8y ago
Eero seemed like the perfect company for Apple to purchase. Apple could really use a Mesh product.
b1r6 8y ago
Just checked out their offering, and they sell....glorified WiFi routers and range extenders? And I've just read there's a mandatory account + sign-in for these things? What am I missing?! Just go buy a couple consumer routers and a spool of cat5e and you're done. If you're lazy, get a powerline device to bring connectivity to the remote router. This is goofy!
- kryptk 8y ago
  High end mesh network devices have a dedicated high band (5.8ghz) backhaul radio in addition to their usual low-mid 5ghz and 2.4ghz radios used for clients. The extra radio allows them to blow the pants off any repeater in terms of performance. They also claim to do some network optimization, for example if you have a device that's constantly streaming Netflix it will be assigned appropriate QoS automatically.
- Marsymars 8y ago
  I wouldn't recommend the average consumer get a consumer router without automatic security updates.
  - philpem 8y ago
    I wouldn't recommend the average consumer get a consumer router, full stop. Even if it has automatic security updates, you can bet that as soon as the thing's discontinued, the updates will be too...
    - JohnFen 8y ago
      I agree. Not to mention that it's very, very hard to find a router that's aimed at the consumer market that is actually good.
    - Marsymars 8y ago
      What are you recommending to the average consumer then? Assuming the average consumer is unable to use a web-based config UI, or to pay anyone to do configuration for them.
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318 points by mikece 8y ago

I'm surprised that so many people here own an eero or were going to buy one. Last I checked, they required a sign-in and were completely unusable if the Internet connection went down. The router simply will not work if it can't phone home. Is that no longer the case? If Amazon fixes that, I'd almost be more likely to buy one (if I ever get tired of my AmpliFi HD). EDIT: Looks like eeroOS 3.9 was supposed to have fixed network persistence a few months ago, but no word on whether you still need to sign up for an account to use it. Can anyone confirm? https://community.eero.com/t/m26cfr/offline-wlan-access https://community.eero.com/t/m26cfr/offline-wlan-access

monochromatic 8y ago
The network still functions when the internet connection goes down. I think you do need an account though.
epc 8y ago
I don't use eero+ (their managed firewall service) and run my eeros in bridge mode behind an ISP router/firewall…so with those caveats: my wifi has stayed up even when the uplink to the ISP is down. I have not tried managing the wifi when this has happened so it's possible that the app doesn't work.

nodesocket 8y ago

Nice acquisition. Should help them integrate Alexa into a single box that provides router, WiFi, and switch.

obenn 8y ago
Nice from a business perspective for sure. I shudder as a privacy conscious consumer.
- corobo 8y ago
  Indeed. Just seen in my Twitter feed via @LaurenGoode [1] > Every Eero that’s connected ends up spitting out data to help us understand how our iPhone’s performing, how our Sonos speaker’s performing, how is Alexa performing, and we use that aggregated data to keep improving our software. [1] https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1095084761796685824 https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1095084761796685824
  - creeble 8y ago
    Wow -- I wonder what data they're going to collect once they're Amazon. Need a canary for https://eero.com/legal/privacy https://eero.com/legal/privacy . Look for the string "URI" or "URL" to see when they start collecting browsing data.
    - wmf 8y ago
      Routers can't see URLs now that everything is HTTPS but they could still collect valuable site-level metadata.
      - JohnFen 8y ago
        Except in networks like mine -- I MITM all HTTPS traffic in my network so that I can detect and handle threats that use HTTPS to hide themselves from my defenses.
        kpcyrd 8y ago
        How often do you run into certificate pinning issues?
        JohnFen 8y ago
        I haven't, to the best of my knowledge.
      - trumped 8y ago

whoisjuan 8y ago

It's clear that Amazon doesn't mess around. They're literally going into bull-dozer mode to capture all the connected home market. It frankly makes Google look extremely slow, especially with how hard it has been for them to make sense of that Nest acquisition, in early 2014.

drcross 8y ago
Google wifi is a solid product, but needs a completely separate backhaul network for client mesh handover. Once set up properly it's unbelievably good in a larger house.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- nodesocket 8y ago
  I don't think we are advocating that Google smart home products are not quality products. We are just saying that they are very slow to move, and at this pace Amazon is going to crush them. This also goes for Apple.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    As slow as Apple was moving, they flat out gave up a few years ago when they stopped making AirPorts. Apple should have bought eero.
    - nodesocket 8y ago
      Apple is still trying with HomePod. It is a nice product, but the price point is crazy stupid. This is coming from an Apple shareholder who loves their premium prices. I don't know anybody who bought HomePod. I've been waiting for Apple to make a big acquisition for years. Beats!!! Really?
      - MBCook 8y ago

ballenf 8y ago

How long until the adblocking, privacy features (Eero Plus) go away now? I'm guessing it will just slowly start getting glitchier until they pull it due to "low consumer demand". As an Eero customer and owner of zero commercial eavesdropping hubs, I'm not happy about this.

vuln 8y ago
What happens when Amazon bans you from price checking in their store... I mean your living room. Whoops. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/06/16/amazon-has-a-patent-to-keep-you-from-comparison-shopping-while-youre-in-its-stores/?utm_term=.9628433866e2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/06/1...
kolanos 8y ago
Just swap it out with Google Wifi. Oh wait...
- Deinos 8y ago
  Ubiquiti and Netgear are still out there with decent consumer mesh kits... for now...
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    Ubiquiti's consumer stuff is kind of bad (AmpliFi). I like their small business grade gear however (Unifi, and EdgeMax). Definitely wouldn't recommend it to most consumers however, it is Prosumer/Enthusiast level or above.
    - r00fus 8y ago
      Why is AmpliFi bad? I'd honestly like to hear.
      - mead5432 8y ago
        I had one of the early models of the AmpliFi. It was generally pretty solid. We have a really old house with a lot of brick and plaster and it did well at filling the house with wifi when other routers came up short. We got gigabit internet and it just sort of collapsed. I think newer versions are better equipped for that speed but ours couldn't seem to get past 100 mbps. I thought their support was really good though. The main issue I have with it is that, for some reason, they were unable to identify my model number as being an older version that didn't support gigabit. They were super helpful but could have saved us both some time if they just paid closer attention to the model number. I opted for the Netgear Orbi; good reviews and satellites capable of up to ~800 mbps in ideal situations.

post_break 8y ago

I wonder how some of the tech podcasters will react to this. Feels like on the ATP podcast they are constantly talking about how great Eero is. Wonder if that will change.

ProAm 8y ago
That's just advertising. They will accept sponsorship from many many companies.
- sotojuan 8y ago
  ATP and Mac Power Users hosts actually own and use Eero routers, though.
  - ProAm 8y ago
    Using a product and hosting commercials for them are two different things though. If Eero stops being a sponsor Im positive there will be another company to fill that slot, its a popular podcast with a large audience reach.
    - sotojuan 8y ago
      Yeah sure I just meant they aren't just saying it's awesome and not actually use it. I don't know about ATP but a lot of the apps that sponsor Mac Power Users are apps the hosts used before sponsorship was even considered, so I trust them a bit more.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Marco has said plenty of times that you can pay him to do an ad read but not for a personal endorsement if he doesn’t use the product. Marco Arment is not exactly a starving indie developer and podcaster between the equity he had in Tumblr. Whatever he got from selling Instapaper, running his own successful ad network for Overcast. On top of that, he was an early investor in Gimlet Media that just got acquired.

JohnJamesRambo 8y ago

The six page memo wrote itself on this one. Ensures there is an Alexa in every room, since you are supposed to have an Eero in every room for it to work right.

ec109685 8y ago
You don’t need eero in every room. That is a total overkill. Agree Alexa with WiFi mesh routing is a no brainer though.
- kkarakk 8y ago
  "Alexa data mine my whole life"

mikeklaas 8y ago

Sigh, now amazon owns my home wifi system. That's super reassuring...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

sotojuan 8y ago

Hm, was going to purchase one because some of my favorite podcasts, Mac Power Users and ATP, rave about it. I'm not sure how I feel about Eero now. I don't have any Amazon smart thing and not sure I want one.

macintux 8y ago
I have the same qualms. It’s disappointing, I need something to replace my aging Airport infrastructure.
- tunesmith 8y ago
  Yeah, I'm stuck with the same thoughts now. Eero was what I was going to use since they were independent. It's just that Airport is still currently good enough for my needs. There's Ubiquiti but it seems like configuration overkill.
wmf 8y ago
Buy it now before they add a microphone to it? But it may go on an incredible journey.
- MBCook 8y ago
  Do you want them watching all your network traffic? Not having a microphone doesn’t allay my fears.
  - wmf 8y ago
    I didn't even think about that. Onavo showed that simple usage metadata is really valuable.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    Not to mention that there's apparently no way to know for sure if a device has a microphone or not in the first place.
- munk-a 8y ago

lifeisstillgood 8y ago

Slightly different subject but does anyone know the state of play in (for want of better term) "public mesh" provision - having routers talk directly to neighboring routers and forming advocates local networks (possibly with mobile included?) It's an area I often think could truly bring about decentralisation but it seems quiet

zchrykng 8y ago
Yeah, no. I'm not letting anyone I don't know access any part of my network/connection.
ransford 8y ago
Not an answer to your question, but: this is how Meraki started in the previous decade, as RoofNet at MIT [1], then as an independent company building wonderful idiot-proof mesh networking gear. I keep hoping another team of students somewhere will come up with RoofNet's spiritual successor, but interest in stitching together community meshes seems to be waning as everyone gets excited about 5G. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20060831053126/http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php https://web.archive.org/web/20060831053126/http://pdos.csail...

rsweeney21 8y ago

I've been using Eero for our home wifi for several years now. It works reasonably well and the family settings are great for controlling screen time for my kids. I also use it to help control my own screen time. With eero I can set up a schedule to force myself to unplug from work and the internet on a regular basis. I'm hoping Amazon makes Eero Plus free for prime users.

vermontdevil 8y ago

Does traffic that currently goes through Eero products also go through their cloud servers if they have any? I don’t have these products so am wondering if this is something they do. For sure it’ll be an area of concern.

srmn 8y ago
From what I understand from using the product personally, unless you sign up for Eero Plus, it does not. You can also use them in bridge mode with a separate router in which they simply act as a mesh of wifi access points and don't do any routing or DHCP, but obviously they'd still have access to the frames of anything going over wireless and the ability to read their contents if they'd like, since they'd be the ones doing the encryption.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

Hah, followed this twitter post, https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1095084761796685824 https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1095084761796685824, from another commenter that leads to the Eero CEO on an episode of Too Embarrassed to Ask from 2017. This question from the interviewer is now pretty ironic: > KS: I say one of the biggest things is that you don’t want Google messing around in your home. Honestly, half of my decisions are made like that, and now I don’t want as much Amazon in there because I buy everything now because I’m at Whole Foods. It’s fascinating. Part of it is that idea as an independent. You don’t want those two or three companies to really dominate every single data interaction you have, which is a plus for you guys, presumably. > Our business model is to sell you a premium product and that’s our business. From https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16135384/transcript-eero-ceo-nick-weaver-answers-wi-fi-mesh-router-questions-podcast https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16135384/transcript-eero-ce...

sotojuan 8y ago
Everyone has a price!
- TrainedMonkey 8y ago
  and a time.
- mulmen 8y ago
  Re-read the post carefully, the interviewer is commenting about Google and Amazon owning data. The CEOs response is still consistent with being bought by Amazon.
theNJR 8y ago
This is such a tricky thing. I like to speak honestly, and I use my blog/newsletter to help formulate my thinking about the world. But, always, in the back of my head, I think "should I really say that about Apple/Amazon/Google/etc)?" Self censorship is a tricky beast.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

newnewpdro 8y ago

No Eero employees chiming in? I don't think they were in the money, and suspect there are some seriously disappointed shareholders right now.

BayAreaSmayArea 8y ago
$90M in funding according to crunchbase, https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/eero/funding_rounds/funding_rounds_list https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/eero/funding_rounds/..., and it's been almost 3 years since the last one.

btmiller 8y ago

Some acquisitions make sense, some don't, but the propensity for founders and investors to push for an exit depresses the free market consumer in me. I want lots and lots of choices for anything I consider buying, yet nearly every acquisition making headlines lately seems like it falls into 1 of 2 categories: 1) a marketshare power grab, or 2) a mechanism to gather more customer data to an already massive empire. Somewhat related: are there any viable open source mesh network solutions for home use?

css 8y ago
Yes, but it’s a hassle: https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linking_Routers https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linking_Routers
jwr 8y ago
I sometimes explain to my customers that a self-funded long-term stable business is more viable than a VC-funded startup. I run a SaaS app for electronic parts inventory and production (https://partsbox.io/ https://partsbox.io/). In discussions, I ask customers to imagine which of the possible outcomes of a VC-funded startup would be good for them as customers (hint: none of the possible outcomes are good for customers, with the possible exception of a rare unicorn IPO).
- s17n 8y ago
  The problem with this type of business is that the business is typically in a position where the loss of one or two key people will basically kill it. What if you get board and decide to move on with your life? The bottom line is that a niche product is always going to be at risk regardless of the structure of the business that produces it.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    You escrow your code and your customers get it if the business doesn't work out (built into their paid plan/tier). You get to eat and grow the business, their business doesn't stop if you get bored, die, or run out of money.

theNJR 8y ago

Part of why I loved my Eero was that wasn't Google or Amazon controlled. Sigh...

r00fus 8y ago

This is one reason I refused to consider Eero in my "Apple is ditching AirPort line, look for secure replacement" flight. Glad I settled on Ubiquiti. If anything, given their leadership background, they'd be acquired by Apple.

dba7dba 8y ago
I understand that Ubiquiti sells more than just wifi routers. BUT still, it makes me chuckle that Apple would kill off AirPort, product that was well liked by customers, only to buy (I mean IF the did) a WHOLE new company that includes a wifi router in the product lineup.
ksec 8y ago
Highly unlikely. Ubnt has lots of Enterprise things which Apple has no use. Apple focus on Consumer segment. Ubnt is prosumer / Enterprise.

bedhead 8y ago

Amplifi from Ubiquiti has by far the best networking gear if you just need a simple plug-and-play mesh network for your house.

dawhizkid 8y ago

Funny how Apple got out of the router game...

wpdev_63 8y ago

It makes me a bit uneasy using anything amazon related as they have large contracts with the US military[0]. Granted the personal could be completely insular but why take the chance? [0]:https://aws.amazon.com/government-education/defense/ https://aws.amazon.com/government-education/defense/

bubblethink 8y ago

I don't get the number of people complaining about "Oh, what is going to happen to my data ?". What did you think was going to happen in the first place ? If you possess time/skill, hack on openwrt. If you don't have time/skill, but have money, buy enterprise gear. If you have neither time, nor skill, nor money, and want shiny toys, what do you think will happen ? How many times do these patterns have to repeat before people stop buying lowest common consumer garbage ?

Marsymars 8y ago
Enterprise gear for home use if you don't have time/skill doesn't really work unless you also have money to pay an enterprise professional to configure your home network.

aeturnum 8y ago

Goddamnit, I liked my Eeros. I guess I need to decide if I want to forever monitor the changes Amazon makes to their functionality or switch router makers.

vuln 8y ago

So if Amazon doesn't have any stores (sans whole foods) and recently received a patent to ban 'in-store' price checking[1]. Now every time you connect to and Eero, you're on amazon's network, your home is their showroom... Good luck [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/06/16/amazon-has-a-patent-to-keep-you-from-comparison-shopping-while-youre-in-its-stores/?utm_term=.9628433866e2 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/06/1...

ravenstine 8y ago
How this is patentable is beyond me. https://patents.google.com/patent/US9665881B1/en?oq=9665881 https://patents.google.com/patent/US9665881B1/en?oq=9665881 I should revisit the unoriginal crap I've got on my GitHub and try to patent it.

NoblePublius 8y ago

If you buy an Alexa router you might as well run a patch cable directly to the NSA.

mindslight 8y ago
But the entire point of products like this is to not have to run patch cables! At least direct NSA backhauls are only analyzed and acted upon by the slow moving government. Commercial surveillance is more agile in both regards, and then passed off to the government anyway. The true pity of these products is the decommodification of Wifi. Meaning rather than hardware manufacturers competing to bring us ever-faster radios, the market will slouch into just competing over who supports the recent batch of throwaway firmware features.

mises 8y ago

I was considering buying one. Not any more. I don't have an alexa or google home or any other "smart" home device, and don't plan to get one. The hard part will be when they integrate such software into every appliance. Anyone have any idea what those of us concerned about privacy will do then? Also, I still don't get what the point of having a "digital assistant" in all my appliances is. Can anyone explain?

Retric 8y ago
Most mart TV’s for example are DOA at this point. It’s still included becase it’s extremely cheap to do so, but don’t confuse sales with useage. Really, if your selling a 4K TV adding under 10$ in components to make it smart for say 10% of people that who care is an easy choice. Especially, if you can turn this into a secondary revenue source. “The numbers reveal that usage of Samsung Smart TV (Tizen), which is the only platform large enough to break out as a separate category, fell by 16% year-over-year, measured in viewing hours.” https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1533727378 https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=...
- mises 8y ago
  This was a massive issue the last time I looked at upgrading to a newer tv. I don't want the "smart" bs, because it wears out very quickly. So I'm still on a 20-year-old crt. Also, seriously: why is there no option to drop to a root shell on such devices? I could at least make them work reasonably well for longer periods with access to the operating system. One of the primary concerns: new streaming service comes along -> exclusive content shows up on new streaming service -> 3-yr-old tv doesn't have app published in the "store" for said service -> tv is obsolete even though the panel is fine. If root was available, a modding community would likely develop, allowing longer device life. Why haven't the environmentalists taken this one up? Forget modularity/upgradeability/right to repair etc., let people maintain the hardware that's already working. Massive e-waste problem.
  - dangrossman 8y ago
    Your primary concern is a problem that doesn't exist. A smart TV with an obsolete app store is just a TV. It will still be a TV in 20 years like the one you're using now. If there's a new streaming service it doesn't support, you plug a Chromecast or a Roku or whatever device does support it into the HDMI port. I have a smart TV, but I have never connected it to the internet or used the built-in apps, and will never need to. It's just an ordinary TV that has some extra "inputs" I don't use. I'm never going to have to throw it out because I don't have a root shell... why would I need that?

EGreg 8y ago

Can someone explain what is “mesh” about this

gnicholas 8y ago

Time for Apple to put WiFi on their HomePods.

frou_dh 8y ago
Like the idea, but the only snag is that placement of the HomePod in the house would become compromised because it'd have to be a balance between where makes most sense for music/voice vs. where makes most sense for WiFi coverage. Selling multiple at $350 each just for WiFi range extension is probably beyond even Apple's marketing.

Pxtl 8y ago

Having gone through a couple of stinker routers that cost me over $100 a piece, and having friends with similar stories, I'm thinking consumers are ready to spend properly on good name-brand wifi. Netgear can die in a fire.

LeoPanthera 8y ago
> Netgear can die in a fire. Netgear's Orbi WAPs are excellent, though.
Marsymars 8y ago
Maybe your friends are better off than mine, but I've had a hell of a time recommending Eero for performance, security and stability when a single base station is $280, and my friends can get a model off Amazon that "just works" for $30.
- pfranz 8y ago
  Those $30 routers die after a year or two and seem to constantly have trouble in the interim--but I know exactly what you mean. I've gone out and purchased things for close friends and family just because I have to hear about it or support it.

monochromatic 8y ago

Am I wrong to assume Amazon will be slurping as much private data (browsing habits etc.) as possible?

glenrivard 8y ago

Eero seemed like the perfect company for Apple to purchase. Apple could really use a Mesh product.

b1r6 8y ago

Just checked out their offering, and they sell....glorified WiFi routers and range extenders? And I've just read there's a mandatory account + sign-in for these things? What am I missing?! Just go buy a couple consumer routers and a spool of cat5e and you're done. If you're lazy, get a powerline device to bring connectivity to the remote router. This is goofy!

kryptk 8y ago
High end mesh network devices have a dedicated high band (5.8ghz) backhaul radio in addition to their usual low-mid 5ghz and 2.4ghz radios used for clients. The extra radio allows them to blow the pants off any repeater in terms of performance. They also claim to do some network optimization, for example if you have a device that's constantly streaming Netflix it will be assigned appropriate QoS automatically.
Marsymars 8y ago
I wouldn't recommend the average consumer get a consumer router without automatic security updates.
- philpem 8y ago
  I wouldn't recommend the average consumer get a consumer router, full stop. Even if it has automatic security updates, you can bet that as soon as the thing's discontinued, the updates will be too...
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    I agree. Not to mention that it's very, very hard to find a router that's aimed at the consumer market that is actually good.
  - Marsymars 8y ago
    What are you recommending to the average consumer then? Assuming the average consumer is unable to use a web-based config UI, or to pay anyone to do configuration for them.

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