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You know, I'm happy on some level for that individual. It seems like a great stroke of fortune. On another level, it bothers me that there are such large inst
by davesque 8y ago
You know, I'm happy on some level for that individual. It seems like a great stroke of fortune. On another level, it bothers me that there are such large institutions that can arbitrarily "bless" random people like a deity or something. I also can't help but look at this cynically as a largely self-interested PR grab by Apple that is not a real sacrifice on their part.
- mav3rick 8y agoWhat would work for you high standards ? If they do something it's Corporate BS. If they don't then they are same old Corp machine couldn't care less.
- elif 8y agoa transparent bug bounty system
- mav3rick 8y agoThe end result will be the same. You will call this a PR stunt.
- davesque 8y agoPerhaps. Although couldn't that just be because we're all so used to corporations having no real accountability and only occasionally deciding to make symbolic gestures as penance for their mistakes? You're probably right that, to many of us, they can't really do anything to make up for this. But that's not our problem. It's theirs.
- sjjshvuiajhz 8y agoI figure it’s the problem of whoever is feeling bad about it.
- mav3rick 8y agoThis is a very easy problem. If you feel this strongly stop buying their products. If you don't do that clearly you don't feel strongly enough. Blaming them when they do the right thing is just going to discourage them to do so in the future
- Scarblac 8y agoI've never bought an Apple product, but I can still be bothered by the fact that such huge corporations exist and can completely change random people's lives if they choose to.
- hombre_fatal 8y agoI don't understand this thread. The article only says: "[Apple] said it would compensate the Thompson family and make an additional gift toward 14-year-old Grant’s education." For all we know, they got a check for $250. How do you reconcile your statement with the fact that you, yourself, can confer life-changing benefits to all sorts of people?
- setr 8y agoThis scenario is more of a lootbox/gambling — a chance to win a big prize, but no gaurantee. A proper bug bounty system would be a consistent outcome, and far more fair.
- bdcravens 8y agoNo, many companies have an objective bug bounty system. No one is calling those payouts PR stunts.
- thaumasiotes 8y agoMany companies have a public-facing bug bounty system. It's incredibly rare for a company to have an objective bug bounty system. I would estimate that the number of companies like this is zero. (Source: I have worked triaging reports to public bug bounty systems for large companies that you've heard of. Payouts can differ by thousands of dollars based on factors like your prior history reporting to the program, what the triager chose to put in their report (even if your two reports are identical), or the label you put on the vulnerability you're reporting.)
- Just_Smith 8y ago...Does anybody consider all the existing bug bounty programs "PR stunts"? You seem like you're fishing for a reason to continue disagreeing, and you're most certainly putting words into a stranger's mouth. A bug bounty program would demonstrate a lot more sincerity around securing their devices than a one-off reward to a kid given simply because the kid got enough attention in the media.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mises 8y agoThe teen and mother in question were not too technically savvy. Would they have been able to meet the usual requirements of a bug bounty filing?
- ppeetteerr 8y ago> it bothers me that there are such large institutions that can arbitrarily "bless" random people like a deity or something. Do you mean like how some people are born into rich families and some into poor families? (I kid :)) > I also can't help but look at this cynically as a largely self-interested PR grab by Apple that is not a real sacrifice on their part. It may be but so what? They could have done nothing, but they didn't. Good on them for doing this.
- nerdponx 8y agoDo you mean like how some people are born into rich families and some into poor families? (I kid :)) Why kid? This is the way of the world.
- zavi 8y agoMost people on US Forbes top 500 came from poverty and / or other disadvantage.
- jsmeaton 8y agoI find this hard to believe. Do you have a source?
- jessaustin 8y agoGP seemed like obvious irony to me. 7 HN folks don't agree...
- leadingthenet 8y agoI will definitely need a source for that claim.
- shrimp_emoji 8y agoThis statement is saved by the "and / or other disadvantage" because that includes the subconscious guilt that they ultimately owe all of their accomplishments to their wealthy parents, which is indeed a disadvantage that I struggle with daily. :'c
- thisisweirdok 8y agoAs far as companies go, Apple has enough money to basically be a deity. I think more of it should be in the hands of their employees and the American taxpayer.
- itissid 8y agoIt's true, their cash on hand tops the GDP of many countries.
- briandear 8y agoThey also pay more in taxes than the GDP of many countries.
- gboudrias 8y agoDo they? I thought they were notorious for not paying taxes?
- mises 8y agoLike most rational actors, they try to minimize the tax they pay. However, even a little tax on a trillion-dollar company adds up to a lot. They still pay quite a bit.
- nodesocket 8y agoDespite the rampant reporting by the media about US companies not paying their "fair share" of taxes, as of 2017: "The biggest taxpayer was the most profitable: Apple, which reserved $15.8 billion for income taxes on $59 billion in operating income. Apple reports its effective tax rate as 25.8%" I think it's time to end this falsehood about Apple as I constantly see it posted on HN.
- kbenson 8y agoDo you have a source on that? The wording on that is odd, which makes me want to look into it. It may be my mistake, but I don't recall corporate taxes often called "income taxes" and it's odd how its referred to as they "reserved" it, instead of quote what was paid. It almost sounds like they are referring to taxes withheld from paychecks for employees, which is definitely not the same as what a company pays in corporate taxes in its profit.
- aeriklawson 8y agoI mean they don't have to do anything at all so I don't view it as cynical. You can't help everyone in the world.
- dv_dt 8y agoGood on Apple. But people are uneasy because it sounds like a old medieval story about a noble family rewarding a random peasant that did one of them a boon. The modern trappings are different, but the story is the same. It's great that the peasant got a fine pair of oxen, but why don't all the peasants in the kingdom have oxen to farm with in the first place. That's not Apple's fault, but it shows how we live in a modern aristocracy, built on finance and lines of capital instead of noble bloodlines.
- chillacy 8y agoIs your thought that education in particular should be available to all (i.e. the oxen represent a fundamental good), or that we shouldn't live in a world where some entities have more resources than others?
- dv_dt 8y agoOn that spectrum, my thought is more towards that education should be available to all, but also that the economics we live under doesn't have a process to distribute sufficient goods widely enough such that people have strong practical independence. It's not that some entities cannot have more than others, it's that we have entire classes where their first order needs (food, shelter, clothing) aren't met despite being willing to work and working, let alone their second order needs (enough margin of profit for emergency funding, healthcare, means to acquire skills initially or skills in different areas, etc), or even third order needs (a broad means to form new ventures addressing what is locally perceived as important). If those areas are met and within a stable system, then I think it's fine that some entities have more wealth - but too much imbalance imho causes systemic instability.
- chillacy 8y agoGreat response, thanks for clarifying.
- michael_storm 8y agoThat's a false dichotomy.
- kbenson 8y ago> On another level, it bothers me that there are such large institutions that can arbitrarily "bless" random people like a deity or something. It's not all that different than in the past some regular person assisting the royalty, and being rewarded for it with some money or small title or allowance, such as being able to utilize a natural resource that's controlled by the crown. It's just a consequence of a massive power disparity, and those are natural (I mean even without market power and m oney, we're talking about a single person and an organization of tens or hundreds of thousands or people, which is its own power difference). > I also can't help but look at this cynically as a largely self-interested PR grab by Apple that is not a real sacrifice on their part. It probably is, but that doesn't mean its all it is. It's not always a zero sum game, and if you can help yourself and help someone else at the same time, should we denigrate that just because it's also self serving? Tempering how much good will we attribute for this action is all well and good, but let's not go too far and negate all of it or come away thinking worse of Apple just because they gain something from this as well.
- KorematsuFred 8y agoThe difference being that apple earns its own money which we have volunteerly given to them for iphones. Royal titles etc. however are from taxpayers money a bit like US aid to other countries or subsidized housing etc.
- kbenson 8y agoApple's money comes from money we have voluntarily given them to own one of their phones and to be part of (and actually we are then forced to be a part of) their market, since only Apple approved software can run). A government's (a monarchy is a form of government) money comes from taxes from people who wish to be part of that system and benefit from the security and markets it provides (otherwise they can leave. Sort of. But in the past they likely could), and they are limited in what they can do because the government enforces the rules. It's not totally dissimilar, in my eyes.
- anth_anm 8y agoTaxpayers money like the 10s of billions apple stashed overseas until they (and others) managed to lobby for massive corportate tax breaks? Before someone gives me the standard "don't hate the player hate the game" speech. I do hate the game. It's fundamentally broken and I think we need to do a 2.0 version.
- KorematsuFred 8y agoWhy should it bother you ? We all have given $10 to that homeless beggar we felt pity on. What Apple is doing is at a larger scale. We do charity for personal satisfaction and Apple might do it for PR.
- pbhjpbhj 8y agoSurely it bothers you if the beggar can't live without begging?
- asveikau 8y agoAnother issue is that education is expensive enough for someone to need a private sponsor.
- chocolatebunny 8y agoApple and a lot of other major tech companies will pay for security exploits. This seams like a reasonable exchange. The kid gave Apple information about an exploit and Apple payed him for it.
- saagarjha 8y agoApple pays bug bounties, but I doubt Apple would have paid in this case until it got significant media attention.