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Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry

• droithomme 8y ago
  Glasses are expensive if you choose to pay a lot. I get super cheap yet fashionable and long lasting glasses at the WalMart optician's office. WalMart does a better job than the private practice guy I saw for years. I get lenses with all the extras and it's still cheap. They also give me the prescription rather than fuss about it. If anyone is still paying $200 and up for glasses it's because they choose to do so. The market works. Same goes for generic drugs. Most things a month supply is $4 at WalMart. Some people prefer to go to a small pharmacy, use insurance, and end up with a $20 copay for the same drug. That is their choice to do so but they should not complain. Likewise with the MRI cost crisis. You can get an MRI and the reading for $250-$500 depending on what state you are in. People paying $10,000 are choosing to pay that. Excepting cases where they are unconscious of course.
• glaberficken 8y ago
  Relevant previous discussion: [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061380 I live in Portugal and I have needed prescription glasses since i was a child (I'm now in my 40s). I have always felt frames particularly are priced in a cartel like way. Of course for lenses there is more of a justification depending on the thickness/prescription (it is harder to make a more curved lens that is thinner and lighter). In frames they try to get you to go for the branded style (Hugo Boss, Gucci whatever...) This is discussed extensively in the above article. [1] In lenses they try to sell you add on treatments (Anti-reflex, UV coatings, etc) In my experience some of these coatings end up shortening the lifespan of the lens as they create a surface that is easier to scratch. I think local opticians take advantage of the fact that people's face dimensions vary so much and that people need to try on tens of options before they find one that is both comfortable and good looking. Given the low prices for frames practiced by some online stores (https://www.zennioptical.com/ https://www.zennioptical.com/ for example) I'm very tempted to even buy the frames online and then going into the local opticians to get them to make and fit the lenses. I'm pretty sure they will try their best to scam me into some overcharge if I do that though...
  • mrob 8y ago
    >they try to sell you add on treatments (Anti-reflex, UV coatings, etc) In my experience some of these coatings end up shortening the lifespan of the lens as they create a surface that is easier to scratch. In my opinion, the best material for lenses is the cheapest: plain uncoated CR-39. It has the best Abbe number of any common material (lowest chromatic aberration), and good scratch resistance. I clean mine using a microfiber cloth (carefully pre-washed to remove any grit), hot water, and dish-washing detergent. This leaves them clean enough that water will "sheet" off them, leaving them visually flawless. I find dirt on the lens more annoying than reflections, so I'd rather have uncoated lenses than coated ones that won't survive aggressive cleaning. I'd recommend CR-39 even for moderately high prescriptions. Weight of lenses increases super-linearly with size, and glasses inherently have bad off-axis performance, so there's little point wearing huge glasses where index of refraction makes a big difference. The low index of refraction of CR-39 also reduces reflections, which is important when you're omitting anti-reflective coatings. It's also worth considering that all glasses designs are trading optical performance for convenience; for maximum optical performance you need contact lenses.
    • glaberficken 8y ago
      Wow, cannot upvote this comment enough. Super helpfull, thanks! Definetely going to go with uncoated lenses. Will the opticians even know what I'm talking about when I ask for CR39? I have one concern though I'm - 6 Dioptre on each eye. so lens weight has always been an issue for me. even a few grams extra make a big difference. I always go for rectangular low profile lenses with the greatest thickness reduction they can apply and they always advise for Polycarbonate lenses. What's your take on this?
      • mrob 8y ago
        All glasses are a compromise in some way, so you have to decide which flaws are most tolerable to you. -6 is strong enough correction that I'd seriously consider contact lenses if I needed it. Contact lenses avoid the image distortion and shrinkage you get with glasses, and because they move with your eyes, the image is sharp in all parts of your field of vision. Polycarbonate is IMO a terrible material for corrective lenses. It has very bad Abbe number, so you get a lot of chromatic aberration (rainbow artifacts) and it's very soft, so coating is pretty much required. Its only real virtue is impact resistance, which is important in safety glasses, but you can get flat safety glasses that fit over your corrective glasses. The weight is marginally better than CR-39, but not enough to make up for the poor optical performance. I haven't seen it person, but going by the numbers, Trivex seems superior. Wikipedia has some information on common materials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_lens#Lens_materials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_lens#Lens_materials My preference for uncoated applies only to CR-39. Other materials have properties that make coatings more important. It's also possible that some coatings have much better resistance to cleaning than others. Unfortunately, details about coatings are generally secret, so there's no way to evaluate them.
• sswezey 8y ago
  The article mentions Warby Parker was started to combat these insane prices. NPR's How I Built This talks about the origins of Warby Parker in this podcast: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/26/586048422/warby-parker-dave-gilboa-neil-blumenthal https://www.npr.org/2018/03/26/586048422/warby-parker-dave-g...
• blackbrokkoli 8y ago
  Title correction: Why are glasses so expensive in the US? The American eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry. Please stop using the US as the "that's how it is"-standard. In Germany, you pay a very reasonable (from my layman perspective) price for the lenses, maybe about 40$ plus another 30$ if you want to have non-reflective glasses or product from big name producers and stuff like that. Like every fashion product, frames start at a few bucks up to whatever you want to pay. Measurements, bending the frame are included in the service. None of this involves health insurance, as far as I know.
  • munk-a 8y ago
    Canada is sadly also in the same boat as the US in terms of eye glass cost, so while the article is definitely American slanted it does effect more than just those folks.
    • kazinator 8y ago
      As consumers, Canadians are not in the same boat at all, but in a tiny life boat which broke away from that boat.
      • munk-a 8y ago
        I'd love to agree with that, but I think you're underestimating the impact the FDA and other US regulators have in Canada. It is possible that Canada will reorient to serve the asian/european market more, but right now most trade ends up going south of the border.
  • traek 8y ago
    It's a US newspaper. Do you also ask the German media to specify Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel in every headline?
    • notus 8y ago
      Knowing Germany they probably do tbh or at least it wouldn't surprise me if they did
• sct202 8y ago
  One of my co-workers always had a new pair of well fitted glasses on every week, and I found out she was buying them online for like $20-$40 a pair. At first I was apprehensive about the fit and quality of the glasses, but after buying a few test pairs they really are just like the store brands.
  • owlninja 8y ago
    Link?
    • VoiceOfWisdom 8y ago
      https://www.zennioptical.com/ https://www.zennioptical.com/ is what my wife uses. She pays for all the special coatings, anti glare, anti oil. Ends up being about 50$ a pair. She loves them, and I think they look cute.
    • sct202 8y ago
      I've used firmoo, zenni and warby parker. Warby parker is more on the expensive end but they have a store nearby and are still cheaper than a normal optical store.
  • locopati 8y ago
    It's the lens price that kills me - how do they afford that part of it?
  • driverdan 8y ago
    She bought a new pair every week? What a waste of money. Consumerism at its worst.
    • favorited 8y ago
      As long as they weren't throwing them out, it's no worse than having different pairs of shoes/earrings/hats and alternating between them. Glasses can be an accessory.
• amvalo 8y ago
  I've been meaning to bypass this racket for a while. Can anyone recommend a good chinese/indian seller for eyeglasses?
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • ZhuanXia 8y ago
    39dollarglasses.com is what I use.
    • socalnate1 8y ago
      Same; I have several pairs from them and they have always been fine.
  • DenisM 8y ago
    Zenni Optical is fantastic. I buy several pairs in different frames / tints / etc just to see what it looks like. I also orders glasses in slightly different strength for near/far operation.
• kough 8y ago
  I just bought my first pair of glasses from the eye doctor – previously been using EyeBuyDirect. There's no difference in quality but they cost literally 10x ($250 vs. $25). I guess it's nice to be able to try them on in person and have a nice woman tell me I look good in them, but that's the only appreciable difference in the entire process.
  • wccrawford 8y ago
    In my experience, the legs on the cheap glasses online are rarely as long as they should be. That means the bend in the leg sits just forward of my ear. The practical difference in negligible, though. They feel just fine, and they don't fall off or anything. So yeah, I buy all my glasses online, and have been for years.
    • moftz 8y ago
      Most of the time you can adjust this with a heat gun. I've seen the guy in target optical do it at his desk.
      • wccrawford 8y ago
        They're metal legs with a plastic coating that was molded, in my case. Can't really bend them or reshape them. And for the plastic ones, it would mean the ends of the legs would be rather short, leaving them to sit funny on the desk when open and possibly more likely to fall off if you lean forward.
• flavor8 8y ago
  Zenni is very good. There is a slight difference in quality between them and the Armani Exchange glasses I got from an optician, but it's not significant. I got a basic pair of black framed rectangular nerd specs for $8 last week, and I'd happily wear them out. Measure the frame of a pair of glasses that looks good on your face and then try to find glasses with those measurements on Zenni.
  • chefandy 8y ago
    I've had consistently excellent luck with Zenni. The key is considering measurements beyond simple pupillary distance, such as temple length and frame width.
  • bryan11 8y ago
    Agreed, Zenni has worked well for several years for me
  • ourmandave 8y ago
    How long does it take to ship a pair?
    • flavor8 8y ago
      Between 2-4 weeks.
  • themodelplumber 8y ago
    I have had good luck with Zenni, but I know others who have not. For example, a friend of mine unknowingly picked a coating that seemed to make his lenses appear slightly yellow. It was borderline visible so he kept the glasses but later regretted it. Another friend used his cotton T-shirts to wipe his lenses free of dust, and quickly filled them with scratches. I personally EDC lens cleaning cloths now because I nearly had the same issue. There are also so many options in checkout now (as of a week ago) that if you don't know what you're doing you can easily overspend or buy an add-on that alters the look of your glasses when they are seen as lenses and frames together. Aside from that though, they are amazingly convenient.
• hirundo 8y ago
  I've been buying from a Chinese maker online, Zenni. They sell a pair with all of the trimmings for $120 that's about $400 at my optometrist's. I did not get a great fit on the first try, but did on the second, so that still saves around $160. And using the fitting for that pair I've bought three others that all fit well. The worst part is the sad look in my optometrist's eyes when I say I'd just like the prescription please.
• amelius 8y ago
  And why is optical/optomechanical lab equipment so expensive?
  • moftz 8y ago
    Probably because of the small market and the precision required in manufacturing it.
• jawns 8y ago
  Reminder, if you're in the US, the FTC says your eye doctor must give you your prescription after your exam. If a doctor refuses to do so, they can face legal action and penalties. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2016/05/buying-prescription-eyeglasses-your-rights-are-clear https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2016/05/buying-prescriptio... That said, I don't think the FTC stipulates what information must appear on the prescription. Many docs leave off your PD (pupillary distance), which is a necessary measurement if you're buying online. Fortunately, there are a variety of easy ways to take this measurement yourself after the exam, although if you're really concerned about precision, you'll want the doctor's measurement. And by the way, it should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Although the quality of eyewear available online can be comparable to what you'd get in store ... please don't think an online eye exam is an acceptable substitute for visiting an ophthalmologist in person and getting a comprehensive eye exam!
  • fma 8y ago
    Did my vision exam last week at Costco. The Costco optometrist is independent from the eye glass department, which is owned by Costco and you need a member ID to buy from. The prescription had PD on there. When I used to do target or lens crafter... I had to ask.
    • themodelplumber 8y ago
      I went to a local business a while back, where the optometrist was about 2-3 years away from retirement. I didn't want to offend them but politely and clearly stated that I would like to get my prescription. Still, they made a big act about parading me through their small collection of frames, and even suggested a few they thought I should try on. Just to humor them for a bit, I put on a pair and they made me look like I was wearing something from the Kim Jong Il lineup. The office assistant, who reminded me of the secretary from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, gave me VERY high compliments on them. I could barely hold in my mirth after looking in the mirror and had to pretend my wife was calling so I could dodge out of there and get the laughs out in my car.
      • 8y ago
• throwawaymath 8y ago
  It would also be nice to not need a prescription for contact lenses in the United States.
  • LastZactionHero 8y ago
    Second! My prescription hasn't changed in 10 years, do I really need to keep going through this? And recently, it seems like all the optometrists have started tacking on a $40 "contact fitting fee" that technically isn't part of the insurance-covered exam.
• dawhizkid 8y ago
  Jins (Japanese company) in SF makes glasses on site in 30 minutes for < $100. https://www.yelp.com/biz/jins-san-francisco-3 https://www.yelp.com/biz/jins-san-francisco-3 Also, this story seems a few years behind given the rise of Warby Parker to address this very problem. If the person who felt compelled to spend $800 because they actually did not think they had any other option then they are living under a rock and/or being scammed by their optometrist.
  • slowtokyo 8y ago
    Jins is great. I only buy eyewear there.
  • ThirdFoundation 8y ago
    I personally had a great experience at Warby Parker. I probably saved $200-300 and didn't feel pressured to buy anything.
  • jstarfish 8y ago
    > If the person who felt compelled to spend $800 because they actually did not think they had any other option then they are living under a rock ...or they have really bad astigmatism. Those lenses are not cheap and are usually excluded from 2-for-1 deals and other sales. Short of Lasik (which itself cannot always correct it) there really is no other option. > being scammed by their optometrist They also do that when it comes to frames, and it's really obvious. The cheap/covered-by-insurance rack is usually a single rack in the back of the store, nondescript, and only mentioned if asked about. After an eye exam the clerk will run your insurance, see what the coverage limit is, and guide you straight to a designer rack at an appropriate price point (unless you express interest in something more upsellable).
  • drather19 8y ago
    Have to second the recommendation for Jins (and they also have a location at Westfield Valley Fair in San Jose). If you have a prescription, you can be in and out with a new pair of glasses in less than an hour. There's a nice selection of frame styles to choose from, and AR/high index lens are bundled into the cost (~$80-120). Lens extras like transitions, progressives, polarized/tinted, and/or blue light filters are extra and special order (2-3 weeks). They have onsite eye exams as well for ~$65, but you'll need to find a way to reimburse with your insurance provider on your own (for out of network).
• pugworthy 8y ago
  You want to know what's outrageously expensive, yet equally important for basic ability to function in the workplace and other situations? Hearing aids. Hearing aids are glasses for your ears. But compared to them, glasses are unbelievably dirt cheap, and basically fully covered by a lot of decent company insurance plans. Hearing aids? Not the case. Imagine if glasses cost $2-3000 per lens. PER LENS. And your company insurance offered to cover some of it, but limited you to ONE PAIR IN YOUR LIFETIME. That's the policy of my Fortune 50 employer believe it or not.
  • themodelplumber 8y ago
    My wife was an office manager at an Audiologist's office. She has some crazy stories about that. Unfortunately, lots of people who don't hear well also shout all the time. Just part of doing business. :-) (Edit: She corrected me. SHE had to shout all the time.) Also, many people purchase hearing aids and then never wear them, because they can't stand the "new" influx of noise and most of it doesn't seem necessary or even desirable. So they effectively spend the money and then feel ripped off, in a sense. Or their spouse, who paid for the hearing aids and basically feels like they burned up thousands of dollars for nothing, is very upset.
    • tvanantwerp 8y ago
      I know if I started to lose my hearing--not all, but maybe 30-40% reduction--I'd probably be quite happy with the turning-down of all that noise I deal with daily. I'd especially like it when spending time with my Cantonese in-laws. Shouting is the default conversational mode there.
      • Scoundreller 8y ago
        Story time! A caucasian friend got a ride home by his Chinese friend and dad to visit them. Once the dad was out of sight, he asked his friend what he was arguing with his dad about. Chinese friend was confused about the question and didn't understand why he was asking. Then he said: "Oh, we were just talking about how nice the wedding was that we went to".
• _visgean 8y ago
  More in depth article: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/10/the-invisible-power-of-big-glasses-eyewear-industry-essilor-luxottica https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/10/the-invisible-p...
• Someone1234 8y ago
  No doubt discussion will turn to online optics (as it always does). The problem with online optics is the same as clothing: trying things on is important, and adjustments can only be done in person. Last time we purchased Zenni Optical glasses we had issues, but none of which are Zenni's fault but rather inherent problems with buying glasses online. The first issue was that the frames simply didn't look right/fit right/fall right even after using their photo preview to "try them on." The second issue is that you're on your own for adjustments. What you'd typically do is at delivery have someone use a heat-gun and tugging to adjust how they sit. I had a heat gun, but was unable to adjust them to satisfaction. Ultimately glasses and prescription sunglasses for $120 is very cheap, but there's issues with the whole concept, so we wound up just going to Costco instead. The Zenni ones sit in a draw as "backups," that is in spite of them doing everything they said they would do (i.e. prescription was spot on, frames were as-advertised, etc).
  • cableshaft 8y ago
    That's part of the reason I get my main glasses from my eye doctor, and then computer glasses or sunglasses from a place like Zenni. I don't care about how I look in them when I sit in front of a computer or in a car. In fact, I have a wide head, and I've had better luck getting frames that don't squeeze into the side of my head through Zenni than anything I tried at an optometrist's. I basically just went with the widest pair offered, which they provide measurements for on Zenni, where I have to try each and every pair almost in person since they don't show those measurements.
  • wuliwong 8y ago
    Sure for some people this is important but many people purchase loads of clothing online as well as glasses. For me, not being able to try it on vs. not having to goto a shopping center is a tradeoff I usually accept with a smile. Luckily the market can still provide solutions for both options. I believe Warby Parker is continuing to build more brick and mortar stores.
  • dwighttk 8y ago
    I guess I'm just not picky. The very first pair I got off Zenni (for $5 shipped) were a little irritating to wear because the frames didn't have spring temple arms. Now I just make sure and sort those frames out and I've had zero issues with them.
• jandrese 8y ago
  Walk into any eyeglasses store and what do you see? Tons of designer labels on everything, labels that were clearly just sold to some third party outfit to slap on their frames. As someone who generally avoids high fashion it drives me crazy to see all of those expensive and useless logos on everything along with $400 price tags. I'm glad to see all of these online outfits so ready to undercut them.
  • wuliwong 8y ago
    Walmart wanted to charge me $180-240 just to replace lenses in my frames. Even without a brand name it's still expensive!
    • jandrese 8y ago
      There are a lot of upcharge possibilites on lenses. High Refractivity, UV block, Anti-scratch, Anti-glare, Auto-tinting, etc... It gets expensive in a hurry if you say yes. No-frills plastic can be ground out cheap but nobody wants to sell a low margin product like that.
    • lmpostor 8y ago
      Because you're lenses are coming from the same place. Depending on the contract year, your lenses are probably coming from Essilor, which at that point you should be probably be going to a private practice and getting better customer service and deals (in terms of warranties, and actually getting the most from the manufacturer). Though that really only extends to a two year period, if it is longer than than, it is pretty much considered a completely new order. Disclosure, I work for Essilor.
• kilo_bravo_3 8y ago
  Glasses are not expensive. Convenient glasses, or glasses with recognizable brand names, available in one hour at your local mall are expensive. My glasses were $29 plus shipping. The magical mystery superpower that I developed after being bitten by a radioactive wombat which enabled me to break through the chains of Luxxotica and do (according to people on the internet) the impossible and escape their "monopoly" was: using Google to find online eyewear retailers.
  • wuliwong 8y ago
    Haha, that's what I was wondering. How is this a monopoly if I'm able to buy glasses for $25?
    • kazinator 8y ago
      Also, how is this a monocle, if I'm able to buy a full pair?
    • RugnirViking 8y ago
      You're taking a pretty narrow view of what a monopoly is with your anecdote. A monopoly is where a company gets large enough that it is able to leverage its market share in anticompetetive ways (charging outrageously high prices, far above the competition, for exampe). NOT where its literally impossible to buy other brands or where a company has 100% market share. That scenario is impossible and will never happen in any market.
  • sowbug 8y ago
    Yup, perfectly fine experience online here as well. Good thing, too, because if my son's eyeglasses cost more than $35 to replace every time he broke them at school (ball, bike, wall, jerk, etc.) or outgrew the frames, I'd probably have let him go feral by now.
• xchip 8y ago
  I was shocked that glasses cost as much as the lens of a DSLR camera, and glasses dont have all the moving parts and materials a DSLR lens have. I found some cheap glasses company on the internet and now I am very happy with the results.
  • umeshunni 8y ago
    I just use a 50 f/1.8 lens instead of wearing glasses. Problem solved.
• tianmingwu 8y ago
  A few years ago I found a technique on youtube to help myopia by wearing slightly lower prescription glasses. And the author recommended zennithoptical.com for cheap glasses. I was almost shocked to find their price to be that cheap. And when I bought a couple of pairs, it turns out their quality is quite decent. I have since bought more than a dozen glasses from zennithoptical.com, at a total cost of about $300. And by using the technique, the prescription on both of my eyes dropped by 1 (from -5.75 to -4.75). Unfortunately that seems to be the limit of that technique. But I was extremely happy to find a source for cheap yet good glasses. Now I have two normal prescription pairs for daily use like driving, two more pairs for reading (1 for backup for each). So the cheapest way to get glasses now is to get a prescription at Costco (cost about $40), then just buy your glasses online.
  • Void_ 8y ago
    Is this technique a real thing? Can we get an expert's opinion?
    • Epskampie 8y ago
      I'm not an expert, but I researched it a bit online since I found a charlatan who was promising people they could get rid of glasses completely. Expert opinion is that this is not possible, myopia is a physical condition that cannot be reversed easily. It is possible to get used slightly weaker lenses, but this is mostly your brain learning to adjust to the slight fuzziness. This seems in line with what tianmingwu experienced.
      • mmastrac 8y ago
        Is that EndMyopia / BackTo2020? I signed up for the "email intro" just to see what it's about, but it's really just a bunch of breathless testimonials and random references saying that you should wear slightly less strong glasses than your prescription. He's basically trying to get people to pay $99 for a forum to talk about the same stuff. The TL;DR for his program seems to be that glasses cause myopia to worsen, especially wearing distance glasses for close-up work. Might have something to it, but not $99 for.
• otikik 8y ago
  I had lasik eye surgery 15 years ago and never looked back (pun intended).
• t0mbstone 8y ago
  I have started buying my glasses from Costco. I was blown away by how cheap they were there when compared to other places.
• notus 8y ago
  The bridge of my nose is shaped weird apparently and it makes most glasses not fit very well, they tend to slide down all the time. I've gone to different places and perplexed the people there trying to help me find something that fit properly. They said everything sits too far off my face. I dunno what to do but push my glasses up. I basically cant buy any of the cheap online options though because they never fit.
  • SomeHacker44 8y ago
    I have a similar problem. I measure glasses that do fit and buy ones with the same dimensions using the search tool on Goggles4U. Sometimes they still don’t fit but are good emergency pair. I also heavily bend the part that goes behind the ear so they look more like an L than a hockey stick or straight line (like glasses meant for headphones/aviation).
  • cgy1 8y ago
    You're not East Asian by any chance, are you? Our noses are slightly different from Caucasian noses. If you are, try finding "Asian fit" frames.
  • luminiferous 8y ago
    I've had the same problem any time I get glasses that don't have nose pads (i.e. the frame just sticks out a bit to touch the nose, rather than there being two plastic pads attached to the frame). But I found that you can buy stick-on silicone nose pads from Amazon, and these work perfectly for me. They're these little D shaped silicone pads that are sticky on one side, and maybe 1.5mm thick. You stick them onto your glasses frame and 1.) they help the frame grip your nose bridge, because they're silicone and therefore grippy, and 2.) they space the glasses a little further from your face. You have to replace them every month or two since the adhesive gives out, but they're pretty cheap and definitely worth the hassle.
  • walterbell 8y ago
    Cheap ($10): https://www.amazon.com/GMS-Optical-Comfortable-Silicone-Anti-slip/dp/B00DUWLIEM/ https://www.amazon.com/GMS-Optical-Comfortable-Silicone-Anti... Expensive (several $100): This company does a 3D scan of your facial structure, then your local provider designs a frame according to your anatomy and style/material/color preference. The frame design is then custom made, not 3D printed, https://3dna-eyewear.org https://3dna-eyewear.org
• jtwaleson 8y ago
  I'm the CTO of an online eye test for the European market (https://easee.online https://easee.online). We work together with online retailers that want to offer prescription glasses at much lower costs and they need us to go fully online. The industry has had pretty absurd margins for years, and that's fine for the fashion aspect of course, but I believe there should be affordable options for everyone, especially as the plastic only costs a couple of $ to produce. I've been working in this space for one year and still have lots to learn, but I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have!
  • semi-extrinsic 8y ago
    Looks interesting, I'll check it out! FYI your copy hasn't been translated from Dutch everywhere on the English site. (Ik hou echt de stroopwafels!) Also your scrolljacking really works badly on Firefox mobile, it scrolls back up a bit five seconds after I scroll down, making it super annoying.
    • jtwaleson 8y ago
      Thanks for the feedback, I'll sort it out with my team :)
• cwaffler 8y ago
  You think glasses are expensive try hearing aids.
  • timbit42 8y ago
    Don't hearing aids have electronics and batteries in them? Glasses don't.
• SomeHacker44 8y ago
  I have been buying glasses from Goggles4U for a decade or so here in the USA. I enter my prescription plus my PD. I get very good glasses for $20-40 all in. Recently I moved to progressives which actually cost a bit more ($20-40). For comparison, last year my wife added me to her VSP. For $200 + $500 paid by VSP from a pocal optometrist/eyewear store I got glasses that might be a tad more stylish, but the progressive prescription is worse - fewer areas are in focus. What a joke. Always buy online. At these prices you can trade a movie night out for a set of spare glasses. I have single focus distance, reading, sunglasses and progressives for about the price of the copay on a VSP.
• buboard 8y ago
  anyone who spends excessively on glasses should consider a laser-correction
• aj7 8y ago
  One word- Walmart. The most durable frames and AR coatings I have ever bought. The frames are a Chinese knockoff. This industry is completely automated and relies on CNC automated finishing and batch costing. Walmart evidently made a centralized investment.
• fyjvd90 8y ago
  I would also like to know why it takes my HMO (Kaiser) 6 weeks to make lenses, and why their invoices don’t list what products they sold you.
• jeffwilcox 8y ago
  I enjoyed the Adam Ruins Everything segment on Luxottica... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeHuDcy_bY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeHuDcy_bY
• interlocutor 8y ago
  The reason glasses cost so much is because one company owns: (1) nearly all brand name frames including Ray-Ban, Oakley, Prada eyewear, Armani eyewear and so on, (2) nearly all retail stores such as LensCrafters, Pearle Vision, Sears Optical and Target Optical and (3) EyeMed, one of the largest vision insurance companies. See this eye-opening 60 Minutes story on Luxottica: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM Luxottica retail brands: http://www.luxottica.com/en/retail-brands http://www.luxottica.com/en/retail-brands Luxottica eyewear brands: http://www.luxottica.com/en/eyewear-brands http://www.luxottica.com/en/eyewear-brands Luxottica vision insurance: http://www.luxottica.com/en/node/6336 http://www.luxottica.com/en/node/6336 In the US, only Costco and Walmart's optical departments are independent of Luxottica.
  • wuliwong 8y ago
    And Walmart is still very expensive. I commented elsewhere this but they wanted $180-240 just to replace lenses in already existing frames.
  • Fins 8y ago
    Aren't they now EssilorLuxottica and also control a good chunk of lenses market as well?
    • evarady 8y ago
      Fun fact: Costco and Walmart surface their lenses on equipment made by Essilor (Satisloh subsidiary). Also if you're buying "transitions" branded photochromatic lenses - that's Essilor too.
      • interlocutor 8y ago
        If EssilorLuxottica was an American company the EU would have fined them a few billion dollars, and split them up a long time ago.
        • ethagknight 8y ago
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• superkuh 8y ago
  I can't really do online lenses because I'm at -10 diopter and special techniques have to be used. But I always buy my frames online cheaply. Then I take my frames to my local optometrist and have them cut lenses for the online frames. It's cheap and quality.
• misiti3780 8y ago
  I just bought a pair of glasses of Warby Parker for 135 dollars. They will last me multiple years - how is this expensive ?
• maa5444 8y ago
  USA.... you have liberal kartels everywhere
• grawprog 8y ago
  My girlfriend's worked in the eyecare industry for over 10 years now in just about every aspect of the industry. Cheap lenscrafter type places, respectable optometrists, opthamologists and the factories where they make glasses. Just about everything is bullshit. The expensive brand name frames come from the same place as the cheap ones and cost the same, around $5-$10 for the store to purchase. Frames are marked up typically 200-300%. Stuff like anti-reflective coating should not be charged extra. Most lenses are made from plastic with this built in. Also, lenses take about 30 minutes to make on small CNC routers, which many places have in house and are usually made by the opticians working there in those cases. While working for some of the shadier places, my girlfriend was told to straight up lie to customers(not patients....they don't think of the people that come in as patients) about what they needed to get them to spend more. My recommendation would be to avoid opticians and chain type optometrists, they just want your money and they have no problem lying to get it. The whole industry is ridiculously corrupt.
• 40acres 8y ago
  I signed up for an HDHP and HSA when I got my first job because I wanted didn't want a premium deducted from my paycheck (young and short-sighted), turns out it was one of the best decisions I've made financially. I'm healthy so I haven't had many medical expenses at all, but I've been able to amass a decent health emergency fund through my HSA and "splurge" on certain qualified medical expenses. For instance I got a pair of relatively expensive superscription glasses over the summer paid for through my HSA. I know it's not for everyone, and I'd really like Congress to make an HSA more appealing to lower and middle income folks, but I think an HSA is a solid way to plan for medical expensive if you're in the right demographic.
  • driverdan 8y ago
    While an HSA is good this is completely unrelated to the topic. You still overpaid for expensive glasses.
  • jtuente 8y ago
    Just an anecdote to add because I'm in the right demographic. My company-funded HSA paid for my LASIK. Best $4000 to never come out of my own pocket.
• kabdib 8y ago
  I was paying over $700 a year for glasses. Funny how the cost always seemed to add up to the max annual amount that my Vision program covered. Since my prescription basically stopped changing five years ago, I determined my IPD (pretty easy with a ruler and a mirror) and now I just order from online glasses providers, for about $100 a pair. No issues at all. It's still important to see an eye doctor every year or two so that medical issues can be spotted early. But it's stupid to pay crazy prices for what should be a commodity.
  • favorited 8y ago
    > Funny how the cost always seemed to add up to the max annual amount that my Vision program covered I can echo this experience. Buying eyeglasses from the optometrist office has always felt nearly the same as dealing with a car salesman.
• shubham001 8y ago
  This article is a literal translation of a 2012 60 mins show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUiWOGv8ec&t=87s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUiWOGv8ec&t=87s Lensley Stahl is interviewing then Luxxotica CEO and his answers are really interesting. A must watch IMO.
• AngryData 8y ago
  Ive been buying my contacts from Europe without a perscription for years now because of the scam that is US healthcare industry.
• nickchuck 8y ago
  They're not tho... https://www.zennioptical.com/ https://www.zennioptical.com/
• ChuckMcM 8y ago
  Obligatory manufacturing video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCH1SEYbrVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCH1SEYbrVA I got a chance to do some due diligence on a company that was trying to "print" lenses with an interesting sintering process. It was a creative idea but I don't think it went anywhere useful. Dr. Strand at USC was researching holographic lenses which was something I high hopes for.
• asadkn 8y ago
  It seems like a perfect opportunity for someone to disrupt this market. I have never spent more than $100 on prescription glasses ($20 for lens with AR coating). I understand there's lack of information, otherwise people would buy just them online but the convenience and trust factors might also be in play.
• justfor1comment 8y ago
  Have to share this related story. I recently got a new prescription and the glasses salesman at my optometrist said that my insurance is super generous and willing to pay upto $200 every year for new glasses, so I should definitely get a pair before the end of the year. So I looked around and picked a frame I liked. The salesman measured my PD and started offering me options on the lenses. Coat this, photo reflect that. I said no to every option that was offered since I know those will rack up the cost. In the end the salesman added up all the costs and said that the total will be $230. I was like that's great so I only have to pay $30 for them. But the salesman was like I already deducted your insurance payment in the calculation, the actual cost is $430 of which $230 you will have to pay. After hearing that, my eyes opened so wide that 20/20 vision was restored in them.
  • hart_russell 8y ago
    Hallelujah it's a miracle!
  • deckar01 8y ago
    My optometrists have all used color-coded stickers that represent the price tiers of frames. Only one of them ever seems to be under my insurance allowance. They don't really have an incentive to make them any cheaper than the average allowance otherwise they would be leaving money on the table.
    • justfor1comment 8y ago
      Yes, I noticed this as well and the one that is under the insurance allowance is comically ugly.
  • webwanderings 8y ago
    I bet this is a typical story across the board in US. The "salesman (or woman)" are just that. They are barely trained as technician in this field. But they are trained to sell.
  • greenshackle2 8y ago
    I went to the optometrist recently. I needed to buy two pairs of glasses. I specifically told the sales guy that I didn't have $700 to spend, but I saw they had decent frames for ~$70-80 and I figured the lens wouldn't be that expensive - my prescription is not complicated - so I let him talk me into trying out some frames. We went through the whole process and the price came out to $670 for the pair. He was willing to give me a deal at $650. He was offended when I told him I'd buy them online for $75 a pair instead. (I have simple myopia but I spend all day on the computer and my eyes get tired. I had the optometrist do the prescription at 20 feet like normal, then again at 2 feet, specifically for computer use. It comes out slightly weaker than my normal prescription. They also take a separate PD measurement for the computer glasses and it was a bit different.)
• ryanjodonnell 8y ago
  I bought 2 brand new pairs of glasses for $40 in China in 2014, including eye exam. They've lasted me for the last 4 years.
• rconti 8y ago
  Ironically, I pay even more to avoid Luxottica. VSP encourages me to buy "preferred" brands with even larger frame discounts if I go with one of these generic "designer" companies. Instead, I pay even more to get glasses I actually like; all-carbon-fiber frames from Bellinger in Denmark. I pay an extra dollar or two a month in order to qualify for new frames every year; that money more than pays for itself when I get 20% off $600-$800+ frames. As a guy, my glasses are about the only fashion accessory I have, so it's worth it to me. But if it's not worth it to you, Costco will happily sell you cheap glasses, as will the various online retailers. As usual, don't trust what the industry wants to tell you you have to buy.
• a2dictator 8y ago
  Just buy glasses in / from India. The Indian government price protects most prescriptions because otherwise the poor will be absolutely excluded from them. So too with eye glasses. I bought mine in 2005 for the equivalent of $20 & they are running perfectly fine even now. I bought another pair in 2016 for the equivalent of $55 & they are now my backup. Both prices are including frames. My prescription had changed very little.
• cryptonector 8y ago
  One word: protectionism. Nothing else can explain it. The U.S. healthcare system is rife with protectionism, and it's disgusting. From how hard it is to become a doctor, to how hard it is to build a new hospital (you need a "certificate of need" in just about all States to build one), to FDA regulations on drug manufacturing being extremely expensive, to too many drugs not being over the counter (thus requiring a trip to your general practitioner), it's all protectionism, all the time. On top of that we have huge distortions, like the non-insurance insurance schemes that have caused there to be no single public price for anything anywhere, thus destroying the single most important feature of free markets (price signalling). It's all a mess.
  • cheeseomlit 8y ago
    I think what you're describing is bureaucracy, red tape, over-regulation and crony capitalism. Protectionism as I understand it would be measures taken to reduce competition from outside the country, not within it
    • cryptonector 8y ago
      When the law requires that you get a "certificate of need" in order to build a hospital, that is very much a protectionist measure. Requiring that medical student careers be approximately a decade long is another protectionist requirement. The FDA often functions to protect large players. There is a ton of protectionism in the U.S. healthcare "market".
      • vkou 8y ago
        > Requiring that medical student careers be approximately a decade long is another protectionist requirement. No, that's just reflective of how damn difficult it is to distill the body of knowledge required to be a doctor into a brain. Just because you can learn enough Javascript in 24 hours to build an insecure one-page CRUD app with an animated duck, doesn't mean that you can do the same with the human body. It takes years of theory (med school), and years of supervised on-the-job practice (residency), to build up the knowledge and expertise required to give people good medical advice.
• evarady 8y ago
  I'm Eric, the founder of Topology Eyewear. We agree that "stock" eyewear (a.k.a. off-the-shelf eyewear) is overpriced. Worst than overpriced, it doesn't fit you very well, because it wasn't made for you! Everyone is different, so we have figured out how to make every one of our glasses different: 100% custom made to fit each individual, like a custom suit; made from the same luxury Italian acetate (plastic) and full-hard stainless steel you'd expect from a high-end frame. And our optics are BETTER than you'd get from your doctor, b/c we compensate for 3D position of wear. And it's all done via an iPhone app using 3D face scanning. Check it out at http://www.topologyeyewear.com http://www.topologyeyewear.com or on the App Store at http://bit.ly/topologyapp http://bit.ly/topologyapp I'm happy to answer here any optical or technical questions anyone has - just hit reply!
  • sreekar545 8y ago
    I know doing the same for android is tough. But any plans to make an app for android?
    • evarady 8y ago
      Yes an Android version is on our roadmap, but honestly it will be quite a while. It isn't just the depth sensor, but also the ability to know for each phone model the intrinsic calibration of the sensor, the GPU, the IMU, and the screen size. We're doing real-time rendering and some very heavy computation at 60fps, which really does leverage tight software/hardware integration iOS and Apple hardware provides. That being said, if you are excited about what we're doing and the only think holding you back is the phone you choose to carry in your pocket, contact me or anyone on my team via the website and we'll be happy to give you a discount for the inconvenience of having to borrow a friend's iPhone.
• evarady 8y ago
  I'm Eric, the founder of Topology Eyewear. Our 3D face scan (via our iPhone app) is way more accurate than a standard pupilometer used in a Doctor's office (and WAY WAY better than a ruler or dots placed by a sharpie!). We solve for monocular PD, so no need to beg your doctor for this piece of info that isn't technically part of your Rx. Check it out at http://www.topologyeyewear.com http://www.topologyeyewear.com or on the App Store at http://bit.ly/topologyapp http://bit.ly/topologyapp I'm happy to answer here any optical or technical questions anyone has - just hit reply!
  • danellis 8y ago
    What are HN's rules regarding advertising? Where's the line between a helpful comment from someone recommending their own product and an ad?
    • __jal 8y ago
      Got me, but I just added Topology Eyewear to my list of companies to never do business with. Don't spam in my pleasure reading.
      • RandallBrown 8y ago
        It's not really spam when it's a legitimately helpful comment.
        • femto113 8y ago
          It pretty clearly crossed the spam line for me: The parent specifically pointed out that doctors don't give you the PD to in order to force you to buy glasses from them, but suggests there are other ways to obtain it. Eric replies to talk about how much better their app is than any do-it-yourself PD measurement but does not disclose that their app also doesn't give you the measurements in order to force you to buy glasses from them. I did not find this helpful and it is clearly commercial, since the app has no utility other than to sell you their glasses.
      • 8y ago
• gkfasdfasdf 8y ago
  I wonder if there is a market for an iphone app that uses the Face ID sensors to measure pupillary distance (PD). Last time I got an eye exam, the optometrist would not share the PD measurement without purchasing frames as well.
• deeg 8y ago
  Why aren't insurance companies putting pressure on the market to get more inexpensive options? Is the overall savings (~$200 every few years) just not worth it?
• mnm1 8y ago
  > Because no one is doing anything to prevent a near-monopolistic, $100-billion industry from shamelessly abusing its market power. > However, as with prescription drugs, government officials are content to pretend that “the market” will protect patients. So the same old story from pretty much every other sector of the economy. America loves its monopolies and oligopolies and does everything in its power to promote their creation, including spreading bullshit about the how the market will make everything and everyone perfect forever and ever and grant everyone eternal life. Or however else they choose to describe the complete and utter chaos that is markets. It's amazing what getting even a small percentage of the population to believe in one's delusions will achieve.
• PeanutNore 8y ago
  I recommend finding an independent eye practice - independent ophthalmology practices are common and likely to also have optometrists on staff - and getting a printed prescription from your exam. This lets you sidestep the Luxottica monopoly completely when you take your prescription to an online vendor like 39dollarglasses.com. You can easily get two pairs of glasses with the full suite of antireflective coatings for less than the copay you'd pay buying glasses at retail with insurance.
• littlecosmic 8y ago
  I’ve managed a few eyewear stores in Australia and it is important to not forget that the dispensing, fitting and quality checking of eyewear is time consuming if you don’t want to half-arse it. I’ve never worked in the very high end stores, but whoever is rolling in money, it wasn’t us.
• pmarreck 8y ago
  Maybe that's because a single company controls 80% of the market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7H-_8UkmFU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7H-_8UkmFU (it's an Adam Ruins Everything about the eyeglass industry)
• coldtea 8y ago
  >Reminder, if you're in the US, the FTC says your eye doctor must give you your prescription after your exam. If a doctor refuses to do so, they can face legal action and penalties. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2016/05/buying-prescriptio.. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2016/05/buying-prescriptio.... That said, I don't think the FTC stipulates what information must appear on the prescription. Many docs leave off your PD (pupillary distance), which is a necessary measurement if you're buying online. Fortunately, there are a variety of easy ways to take this measurement yourself after the exam, although if you're really concerned about precision, you'll want the doctor's measurement. The doctor will leave off prescription information on-purpose? WTF? I'm not sure what bizarro system the US has with opticians and buying glasses... On a trip in the US I broke my glasses. I had to get a replacement, but I was in rural country, and it was a weekend. Now, even though there were shops selling eyewear open, I couldn't just get a pair, because they wanted a prescription from a doctor (I think I went to a Walmart, whose doctor that takes prescriptions was off for the weekend among other places). In my country you can get a prescription on the spot at any shop selling eyewear (perhaps our law dictates that any eyewear shop has an optician in employment -- but any assistant can also take a lens of your old glasses and get the measurements). In any case, a prescription test costs nothing, and you can buy single use contact lenses with that immediately, or get the glasses in a couple of days.
• failrate 8y ago
  Use zenni. Cheap af.
• jacekm 8y ago
  Interesting how much prices can vary between countries. I just googled for the prices in several stores here in Poland and it seems you can get the most basic frames and lenses for about $20. You can get a very decent pair for ~$100. Many companies here have to reimburse you a pair up to ~$130 every 2-3 years and this is the only time when you need prescription from doctor, otherwise you don't need it. RayBan, Armani, etc. cost a lot, but I never seriously considered them. I got my current pair over 15 years ago. Back then I think they must have costed over $200 but only because I have asked for (at that time) fancy lenses. This was expensive but considering how long they lasted and how much they survived I consider them one of the best purchases ever. I have couple of other glasses (reimbursed by my company, i.e. free) which I wear every now and then but I stick to the old pair simply because I am used to them.
• nmstoker 8y ago
  I hadn't thought of the cost, but the article does a good job of highlighting that. What I had noticed (in the UK at least) is how limiting the styles are by not being modular: opticians stock an impressive array of glasses, but it's incredible how inflexible it can be as countless times you find a pair that go well but then find there's some random flourish that ruins it - were the pieces modular (or better yet made to order by 3D printing) you'd get exactly what you were after - and then maybe I could just about stomach the pricing!
• billforsternz 8y ago
  This is very timely for me as I have an optometrist's appointment this afternoon. My 3 year old prescription needs an update unfortunately. Three years ago these glasses cost me $NZ1500 ($US1000). I do have"off the charts" astigmatism and they're progressives as well. Does anyone here know if the online options extend to extreme corner cases like this ?
• damon_c 8y ago
  I got Lasiks done last April. It was a very scary procedure but it worked. It cost $3000. I have saved about $300 in glasses so far... assuming I wouldn't have lost/crushed a pair. My vision is now so good people say "wow you can read that (chalkboard specials menu in restaurant etc.)?!" Still when I was laying there with my corneas being sliced... I wasn't sure if it was such a good idea!
  • ww520 8y ago
    Yeah, I got Lasik done 15 years ago at UCSF, where they trained ophthalmologists. It costed around $6000, with insurance covered around $1000. Best money I ever spent. The improvement to quality of life was incredible. Still get 20/20 at left eye and right eye degraded slightly to 20/30.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• hourislate 8y ago
  This is an area where I feel like AI could one day give you a comprehensive eye exam and even measure your face and head displaying a number of frames that would suit you. Once you decide on color and style, they would then be 3D Printed and the Lens could be ground while you wait. Perhaps just a tech to assemble would be all that is required.
• Ice_cream_suit 8y ago
  Zenni's glasses start at $6 (lenses and frames included). I usually splurge and spend around $15 a pair. Glasses are cheap. Many consumers are hoodwinked by vendors.
• iRobbery 8y ago
  http://www.luxottica.com/en http://www.luxottica.com/en in NL there is a documentary about this company and how much of influence they have on the market. Interesting, though if true, worrying
• Kinnard 8y ago
  Brings to mind the advocacy of William Horatio Bates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bates_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bates_method
• landryraccoon 8y ago
  Just get lasik. I got it a couple years ago and I recommend it highly. Never having to buy expensive glasses again is just icing on the cake.
• Propen 8y ago
  Great "Adam Ruins Everything" episode about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeHuDcy_bY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeHuDcy_bY
• gist 8y ago
  How long before 'Jeff' gets into this industry? [1] [1] Amazon of course is what I mean.
• stunt 8y ago
  No surprise when there is no competition in the market. Companies are just greedy and margins are high in almost everything these days.
• yonifrandzel 8y ago
  Ever wonder why you cannot get glasses made of glass anymore? (At least that’s the case in Israel). Glass used to be a lot cheaper than plastic, more durable and long lasting. You rarely needed to replace them every year or two like with plastic, unless you really smashed your lenses hard and got a nasty chip. All plastic lenses get scratched within a few years and your sight becomes gradually foggy until one day it dawns on you. “I can’t see anything!” - and then it’s time to renew the... What? The SUBSCRIPTION!? Sorry, the prescription. Right. With glass that would never happen. The repeated mantra I’d always get from the optometrists is that glass isn’t sold anymore because it can shatter and splinters could get into you eyes. I don’t know about others, but I’ve been hanging on to my glass pair for over 18 years now, not a scratch or a chip or anything, and they are on a half frame! And I’ve done sports with them too... maybe not the smartest thing to do, but I will not give up seeing cristal glass clear! At one of the optometrists I used to go to where they’d sell me plastics I discovered they would use acetone to clean the glasses. Yes, acetone, which eats the plastic away. Something to make your subscription a little more often. I’m Never going back there. What’s funny is that my glass pair has lasted so long they have gone in and out of fashion multiple times now. I really wish they’d bring back the glass. I’m in the off fashion period now.
  • danielbln 8y ago
    What are you doing with your glasses? Use a microfibre cloth to clean them and there is no reason that they get scratched, and especially not every couple of years. I've had mine for 8 years and the only reason I've recently changed them is to get a different frame. Also, glass is really heavy, especially if you have to have them with a significant diopter, and it also prone to breaking if dropped onto a hard surface. Here in Germany you can still get regular glass if you so desire, so maybe it's just Israel.
• renholder 8y ago
  Is this only a states thing or generally all of North America thing? An eye-doctor's visit, prescription, and two pairs can be around 200 quid[0] (adjusting for currency conversion). [0] - https://www.specsavers.se/glasogon/bag-sok#sort=field_frame_skus_field_price_including_std_lenses_amount_decimal_asc&order=asc&f%5Bgenders%5D=female,male https://www.specsavers.se/glasogon/bag-sok#sort=field_frame_...
• cyberferret 8y ago
  An optometrist friend of mine once told me decades ago about an 'in joke' they had in the industry: When you hand over a pair of glasses to a customer, you say "That will be $200...". If the customer doesn't blink, you continue "... for the frame, the lenses cost an extra $200...". If the customer still doesn't blink, you continue "... each.".
• partiallypro 8y ago
  A massive portion of the industry is owned by a single company.
• legohorizons 8y ago
  The glasses industry is so structurally bundled and unsound that a disruptor like Warby Parker was able to come in and build a billion dollar business in a matter of years. Hearing aids are similar as mentioned on the thread. Wondering what other industries have these structurally integrated industries where a disruptor could deliver a tremendous amount of value with insider Knowledge or reintegrating a supply chain. I believe an original Warby team member worked in the eyewear industry. I have a feeling things like Car Dealerships are next. You fundamentally have to be able to drive massive value to consumers by making a one time purchase expneisve good cheaper with an innovative business model.
• bdcravens 8y ago
  My wife was an optician for 15 years; she left the industry because of the crazy retail sales environment (focus on sales and commission instead of customer service) She had the idea of being an independent optician, but not selling glasses. Rather, offering services like adjustments, frame styling, measuring PD, etc, to service the growing market seeking out glasses from places like Zenni and Warby Parker. Personally, I didn't think she'd find enough people willing to pay for those services, but perhaps there's an opportunity there.
• sgjohnson 8y ago
  The answer: The Government. In the UK you can grab a pair of decent frames for as little as £15 and and an eye test for about £30 at most optics stores. Single vision lenses £50 at the most.
• thomasjudge 8y ago
  So for average US optometrists, what % of the revenues and profits comes from eyewear sales vs services (exams etc.)?
• sytelus 8y ago
  Just making list of industries where market forces have failed to give a way to monopolies, at least in US: - Cable TV/Internet - Prescription glasses - Hearing aids What else?
• throwaway415415 8y ago
  In France we have lunette pour tous and it's 10€ for a pair. It works wonders
• itchyouch 8y ago
  About 20 years ago, while I was in highschool, my foreign student Korean friend would get care packages and in them would be 3-4 pairs of glasses to change it up depending on the occasion. Apparently, glasses run around $30, even with an eye exam. When I visited a couple years later, I could get glasses, even with thei highest index for $30. Some places would charge 50-70 for frames + high index lenses, but the big volume shops, you could get a bunch of pairs for cheap.
• tabtab 8y ago
  Do-it-yourself wooden frames: https://www.instructables.com/id/Techniques-for-Making-Wooden-Glasses-DIY/ https://www.instructables.com/id/Techniques-for-Making-Woode...
• fgandiya 8y ago
  Expensive glasses are expensive. There are online retailers where you can get glasses for $20 (not sure about more complicated prescriptions). I go to this place where I can get a $50 eye test before buying them online. Only issue is that the people who do the eye tests leave out the PD number which is kinda important. If you ask them for it, they'll tell you to do it yourself or buy glasses from them. You can measure it yourself instead.
• PinkMilkshake 8y ago
  There is a company in Sydney, Australia called Dresden that make cheap recyclable plastic glasses. The prices range from AU$49-$99 (US$35-$70) depending on how thin you want your lenses. They keep costs down by producing a single, neutral, yet attractive style. You can have just about any color you want and a choice between four sizes. An engineering friend of mine was helping them improve the recycling process. Once you are done with the glasses, you take them back to Dresden, they grind them down and reuse the plastic in new frames. I'm not sure if they recycle lenses. https://dresden.vision/ https://dresden.vision/
• Glawen 8y ago
  I'm surprised that noone is blaming the health insurance and opticians for these prices. In France when we need glasses we have to get a presciption and we can choose the glasses at the optician. The thing is that the optician will not give you a price for a pair until you have given your health insurance details, which allows him to know how much you will get reimbursed. And surprise surprise, the pair of glasses you chose is coincidentally just 5€ cheaper than the max limit paid by your insurance.
• joshe 8y ago
  Here's a great example of the crazy markup. I use these $7 sunglasses for biking: 3M Virtua Glasses Gray Lens, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006PJHM6/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006PJHM6/ And these clear $5 ones for wind while biking when it's dark: 3M Virtua Clear Lens, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00166OALC/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00166OALC/ Both 3M and Amazon make a profit on these! 3M's cost of goods sold is probably $1.25.
• deleted 8y ago
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• dang 8y ago
  There have been quite a few large threads on this over the years. 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061380 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15736573 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15736573 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13091936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13091936 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9183464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9183464 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6718224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6718224
• sabujp 8y ago
  why can't we just 3d print and laser cut these things already?
• aurizon 8y ago
  I want to buy glass lenses, not plastic lanses. Plastic accumultes many fine scratches over time from cloth etc. Which online supplier sells glass lenses?
• walterbell 8y ago
  Someone was asking about glass lenses. They are now mostly a premium product, not many online suppliers. https://www.2020mag.com/article/a-dawn-for-glass-lenses https://www.2020mag.com/article/a-dawn-for-glass-lenses https://www.eyeglasses.com/prescription-lenses/glass/ https://www.eyeglasses.com/prescription-lenses/glass/ http://www.lensfactory.com/glass-lenses/ http://www.lensfactory.com/glass-lenses/
  • simonlc 8y ago
    Essilor used to make them but are closing most of their lines. They are just not that in demand. They also take longer to make.
• walterbell 8y ago
  There is a famous US company that has been making frames and lenses for decades. They are still around, offering classic models in a variety of custom sizes. They will insert any lens you need, even glass. Think of them as a time machine. They have their own lab. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browline_glasses https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browline_glasses > Browline glasses were invented in 1947 by Jack Rohrbach, then vice-president of Shuron Ltd., an eyeglass company. The first browlines – sold under the "Ronsir" model name – were made out of interchangeable bridges, eyewires, and "brows," allowing wearers to completely customize the size, fit, and color of their glasses. At the time, most frame manufacturers offered a limited number of colors and sizes, making browlines a unique means of customizing one's personal appearance. The style quickly caught on in popularity amongst eyeglass wearers, resulting in numerous other companies releasing their own browline frames. http://shuron.com http://shuron.com Today, few frame manufacturers offer the same style in multiple sizes. Virtually none allow you to mix and match temple length, frame width, bridge, etc.
• andrewbinstock 8y ago
  Surprised not to see mention of 39dollarglasses in this article or the comments. They've been great in my limited experience (two pairs of glasses) [1] https://www.39dollarglasses.com/ https://www.39dollarglasses.com/
  • me2i81 8y ago
    I have been using 39dollarglasses for quite a few years, good service, and I've gotten quite a few unsolicited compliments on the frames.
• HeavyStorm 8y ago
  In Brazil the regulation states that you must have a prescription in order to buy and it _must_ be no more than six months old. So if you lose your glasses after as little as six months and can't find your prescription, off to the doctor you go.
• mancerayder 8y ago
  Contacts are even worse. Did anyone notice that online vendors in the US like the 1-800 one were well cheaper, and now somehow they all have the same pricing? And that a special contact lens check is required, at a separate price, to get a prescription for contact lenses renewed, even if the script is the same for glasses and contacts, and you just did the glasses? And that while you can buy 100 years of contacts, the script is only valid for 12 months on the dot? Oh, and you can't resell your unopened box of contacts on eBay or anywhere. Regulations are good but these laws in the US are very cartel-y. I remember in the UK in 2012 or so I could order as many contacts as I wanted with no script, no questions asked, online.
  • walterbell 8y ago
    There are online contact lens providers which don't require prescriptions, regulations vary by country and state.
  • riahi 8y ago
    Your prescription cannot be the same for contacts as it includes additional parameters like curvature. The diopter may or may not be similar, true. The whole point of a separate contact lens exam is to assess lens fit and check for corneal complications usually related to over-wear.
    • mancerayder 8y ago
      Curvature doesn't change. The UK has or at least had the ability to order online scriptless, it's not exactly anarchy over there. Also as mentioned I can order 10 years of contacts with one 'valid one year' script.
• Solar19 8y ago
  Whenever we see an apparent monopoly or a confusingly high profit margin, we should immediately look for barriers to entry. Situations like this are usually explained by the existence of a racket with government-enforced barriers to entry. Optometry is a licensure racket with strong legal barriers to entry. The sale of glasses is ostensibly a separate business without the same barriers, but I suspect it rides on the coattails of optometry's racket. I think there's an inertia tie between the eye exam and the purchase of glasses. The cleanest way to end this nonsense is to break the optometry licensure racket. Think about what optometrists actually do. Think about all your eye exams and the whole "1 or 2" procedure as they flip through lenses. Honestly, most adults could probably do that job and produce a correct prescription after maybe a week's training. I'm not saying they're inherently bad people or anything, and I like my optometrist, but it's a racket just like realtors, lawyers, and other guilds that use the law to prop up their prices and reduce competition. There's at least one startup out there that wanted to do eye exams through a specially designed web app. Expect the optometry racket to lobby hard against this, just like taxi rackets tried to stop Uber. And there ought to be companies offering cheap glasses online any second now...
  • cogman10 8y ago
    I agree to an extent. Most people could do what your average pediatrician does at a normal checkup. The reason you want a licenced pediatrician is for the abnormal. While an optometrist isn't generally needed, they are sometimes. For example, they are generally the first ones to catch diabetes. I'm not an optometrist, just someone that has worn glasses their whole life.
    • Solar19 8y ago
      Me too. The diabetes angle is interesting – I hadn't thought of that.
• exebook 8y ago
  I have ordered four pairs of -4 glasses from aliexpress ranging from 1 to 7 US dollars, from four various sellers, some have arrived already and are surprisingly good, lenses are great really. Maybe I'm lucky to have standard distance between my eyes, but these super cheap glasses are just as good as those I used to buy in a local clinic for 50-100 USD.
• nameisu 8y ago
  you can buy a flight to Asia, buy your glasses and come back. it would still be cheaper than going to a store in USA.
• crimsonalucard 8y ago
  Is the glasses industry heavily regulated? because if not, this is evidence that free market forces tends towards monopolies and wealth inequality.
  • MeltySmelty 8y ago
    Preach it, comrade!
• elliotec 8y ago
  As a related aside - I got lasik surgery a couple years ago for $3000 on the dot and it was easily in the top best life decisions I’ve ever made. Most lasik practices I know of have low-no interest financing options that are going to be cheaper long term than glasses.
• t3rabyte 8y ago
  new to hacker news, so why are we discussion glasses here...confused...
• fxfan 8y ago
  I haven't tried this personally but I should plug endmyopia.org if for no other reason than to give some more picture on the practices of this industry.
• hate 8y ago
  I can hear Luxottica laughing in the distance
• pugworthy 8y ago
  Wow, did this post blow up or what.
• xivzgrev 8y ago
  People don’t buy glasses that often. A single pair can last a long time. So even tho gross margins can be rich, the annual volume may not cover the fixed cost of marketing, r&d, etc. and don’t forget the optician isn’t really making money from the checkups, it’s the glasses and contacts.
• kalehrishi 8y ago
  In India you could get good quality glasses ~15$ to 40$
• nomadiccoder 8y ago
  Go for lasik. 4500 bucks in abq 0% over 2 years. Best thing ive ever done in my life
• rahimnathwani 8y ago
  I don't understand the difficulty here, at least for people with ordinary single-vision prescriptions. 10 years ago I was buying glasses mail-order from optical4less in Hong Kong: 58 USD for two pairs including single-vision lenses and shipping to anywhere in the world. In the UK, places like speckyfoureyes are even cheaper, and have a wide selection of frames. Both of these places show extensive details of frame measurements, which should allow you to choose frames that suit your face, unless it's your first time buying glasses ever (unlikely if you're an adult, as most of us develop issues earlier). Sure, if you need to have name-brand frames or want a very specific fashion statement, maybe there's only one brand that will work for you. But the fact that a particular person is satisfied only by a particular handbag costing $10k does not mean that 'handbags are so expensive'. Because most people can be satisfied with a handbag that costs 99% less than that.
• sshanky 8y ago
  So far I think the best value, even better than Costco, is Sam's Club. Bring them frames and they will trace them and measure your PD, then make you a pair of single vision Pentax lenses with AR coating, for less than $40. Add $60 and you have polarized sunglasses. This is for CR39 plastic which is optically superior to polycarbonate/high index lenses. There is also a great warranty, since Sam's Club will let you return anything practically any time. You can find most frames for a few bucks on eBay, including popular brands like Ray Ban. I have bought quite a few pair so far and am super satisfied, especially with the optical quality, compared to the competition's "HD" stuff.
• intertextuality 8y ago
  My experiences in the US in 2015 and prior: * Took exams, but didn't receive PD (pupillary distance). Had to take another exam and specifically ask in order to receive that. * Frames from most places except Walmart were disproportionately expensive, and walmart's styles... were lacking. Only select styles were reasonably priced. * Nowadays my family in the US uses Warby Parker. Last time I used it the prices were reasonable, one just needed their pupillary distance measurement and an eye exam taken within one year. * For both Warby parker & brick and mortar shops, you had to wait for the new glasses to come in. * The process for contacts was better, but still quite expensive. I had to drive to the eye exam so I couldn't do the enlarged pupil process. My experience in Korea in 2018: * I walked into a random glasses store, picked out a pair of frames, gave my old glasses to the clerk in order to scan them, waited 10 minutes, and then walked out with thin, good-looking, strong-prescription glasses for $80. Couldn't have been easier or more straightforward. * This year I plan to get contacts to see what the process is.
• heyjudy 8y ago
  Because Luxottica is the DeBeers of glasses. Warby Parker, and IIRC Walmart, are the major insurgents against them in the US. I thought Costco also was after their business but it looks like they sell a great deal of Luxottica product.
• unixhero 8y ago
  They aren't expensive. There are stores like Specsavers that charge USD20 for a pair of affordable glasses.
• dirktheman 8y ago
  Expensive? I have astigmatism, top notch lenses with blue light filter and a slight varifocus (Eyezen, highly recommended for screen work) and a designer frame. This was a rather expensive purchase (around 350 euros) for me, but since I'm behind a screen a lot it's worth it. Also, I bought these glasses at my local glasses store. I get headaches whenever my glasses aren't exactly centered or straight, so in a typical year I come in around 10-15 times to adjust them. They give me great service all the time, always cleaning the glasses and replacing screws/nose pieces for free. When I got theses glasses the lenses were replaced two times (I had transitions, didn't like them, and I got headaches from the second pair because my brain couldn't get used to the new astigmatic values), also without additional costs. Buying glasses online is fine, but since I rely on my glasses every waking hour and require a lot of service, I'll keep buying them from my local shop. Probably not the most economical way, but 350 euros every couple of years isn't that shocking, either.
• jonplackett 8y ago
  I’ve been getting glasses from selectspecs.com for years now. I just buy 3 pairs for about £15 each and then swap them out when I break them (which happens often due to clumbsiness). Quality is fine. Glasses are just made of plastic. No reason they should be expensive as far as I can tell.
• s_dev 8y ago
  I understand the Luxotica monopoly but everytime this comes up people recommend some Japanese company -- I can't recall their name.
• hema_n 8y ago
  “Eyeglass sales are becoming a very competitive market, with frames and lenses available in a range of prices and quality levels,” Bajwa said. “Today’s glasses aren’t the glasses of 20 years ago, and the price can reflect these technological advances.”- This is exactly a true statement.!
• 3chelon 8y ago
  I do wonder how easy it would be to complete automate eye tests. It seems to me a robot could do the job very easily.
• Markoff 8y ago
  one would think in free market US economy you will have tons if brands to choose for each budget but the article imply opposite, is it really truth there it's unregulated monopoly? can't you buy cheap glasses in supermarket for few dollars or some event brands for let's say 50-200$ online? looks odd from Europe of course luxurious brands cost more, bit who is forcing people to buy luxurious fashion brands? that doesn't sound like monopoly to me
• csomar 8y ago
  I was shopping for new glasses a few months ago. Unfortunately, not only Luxottica brands where out of control expensive, pretty much all of their offerings where low quality. I mean really shitty quality. The quality you'd expect you get buying $5 glasses from shady fake crap stores. I ended up buying La Coste frames. It was on a sales. Both the frame and the glasses cost less than $100. I think it is a fair price and one that makes me not think much about. But if I find cheaper frames, I have better use for that money.
• alexmorse 8y ago
  When I last wore glasses, I found zenni optical, and got my prescription for $18, which would have been near $200 at a wal mart. They were great, and lasted many years.
• En_gr_Student 8y ago
  I feel that they steal the universe from me by making new prescriptions that presume normal distribution in use-case, and because the new prescription mandates new glasses. I have heard that recycling of glasses is illegal. Isn't that like right-to-repair broken for 18th century technology? It is because someone in politics makes a lot of money from it. If someone were to dig out decent documentation there, and make it public, then the problem could be and not just patched with a band-aid.
• advertising 8y ago
  Retro Super Future is a great brand for sunglasses and optical. Stores in the states and Europe, made in Italy.
• dave_pascua 8y ago
  Last year, I went to a JINS store in Tokyo Japan. They gave me an eye exam and, in less than an hour, had made my prescription reading glasses (with AR coating). Total cost was less than $90 USD. And I don't speak Japanese - I know less than a dozen words. JINS has stores in California.
• sigi45 8y ago
  I bought 40€ glasses online, send them back and got 200€ glasses at a normal shop. I see the issue that everyone should be able to get glasses as it is that important but I will not compromise my eyesight quality because of a few hundred bugs.
• howlingfantods 8y ago
  Warby Parker is a good alternative to the Luxotica monopoly but I think even their lenses are Essilor
• Friedduck 8y ago
  We’re fortunate enough to have a Warby Parker retail store nearby. $95 all-in for glasses. This is 15-25% of what I’ve spent elsewhere. It’s considerably more if you have progressive lenses. Nearly $300. Still far off the norm.
• firemelt 8y ago
  Anyone know cheap online glasses seller that shipping worldwide?