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Switching my parents over to Linux saved me a lot of headache and support calls
- taylodl 8y agoI was going to comment why not get them an iPad, but that would be a big change all at once. I like your approach of slowly introducing them to the new software they'd be running on Ubuntu on their Windows 10 system. That way they get used to all the new programs and the final switch to Ubuntu is pretty much a non-event. Smart! So smart that I don't think transitioning them to an iPad would be that easy.
- l1am0 8y agoThe iPad way could also work quite well, but as my dad does a lot of writing he needs a keyboard :D
- daveFNbuck 8y agoiPads have decent keyboard cases now. I considered getting one to replace my laptop last month but decided against it because it's not really viable for coding yet.
- calgoo 8y agoIMO, those keyboards are ok for some quick notes, but for anything longer, its going to give you issues (unless you have tiny hands).
- daveFNbuck 8y agoI'm doubly glad I didn't go that route then.
- alphabettsy 8y agoBluetooth keyboard?
- jmkni 8y agoI got my parents (late 70s) an iPad, and they picked it up more or less right away. I’m not an Apple fanboy by any means, but the reality is that a lot of people don’t need a PC or Laptop of any sort, they just need an iPad!
- takinola 8y agoSeems to be the simplest solution. I did this several years ago and my parents (almost) never have any issues. If your needs are simple (email + web) then an iPad will do it all without any of the downsides.
- Rietty 8y agoThis is a very minor nitpick, but you do have some spelling errors in there. The one I noticed however is the word: save/saver instead of safe/safer.
- noir_lord 8y agoI did this for my Mum about 6 years ago. These days she doesn't buy a computer unless it will "run that minty thing". I pretty much don't have any tech support calls from her anymore, I think a couple in 5 years and one of those was her knocking the video cable out with a hoover. I just install Mint based on LTS and forget about it.
- perakojotgenije 8y agoI did the same with my parents-in-law. The best thing with mint is it has very similar interface to windows (they were using windows XP previously). So I didn't need to explain anything, the icons just became green, chrome icon became blue and Firefox icon was the same. And nowadays they can even play some of my (even windows only) steam games like zuma or peggle deluxe. When I meet them I do an upgrade and that's it.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 8y agoThe best part is when they get that call from a scammer claiming that something is wrong with their windows installation and it dawns on them how obvious the scam is.
- benbristow 8y agoAnd even if they still think it's Windows by the time they get to the 'download this remote access client' stage they won't be able to run the exe and the scammer will probably give up on them.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y agoUnless you've installed Wine....
- benbristow 8y agoDepends if Wine supports the software. And an easier solution, don't install WINE!
- chimen 8y agoSwitched my father-in-law to ubuntu 10 years ago and I basically ended all his "support" calls to me :). He was constantly getting malware from all sorts of banners and popups while playing chess and rummy online. That, coupled with some good extensions such as mining block + uBlock + Disconnect changed the whole deal in an hour. He's 76 now so yes, linux is a very good option for them.
- etxm 8y ago> He was constantly getting malware from all sorts of banners and popups while playing chess and rummy online Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
- Svip 8y agoI concur with this experience. A few years before my grandmother died, I installed Ubuntu on a new laptop for her. All she wanted to do was check her email, view her bank account and play solitaire. It was easy to set up shortcuts to any of this, and she never had any problems. Every time I came to visit, I would make sure to check the status of the packages, and run the software updater if any updates were available. The only 'problem' I experienced was confusion from my uncles, when they tried to use her laptop, when they came to visit. But I wouldn't really rate that a problem, since they just gave up and didn't ruin anything.
- sunnyP 8y agoThe same thing with my father. Windows was overkill for him. He just needed the browser and printer. Ubuntu is easy to set up and maintain.
- rocky1138 8y agoI set my dad up with Lubuntu just under a year ago and the only problem he's had is a system lockup that we traced to a malfunctioning mouse crashing the computer. We replaced the mouse a few weeks ago and haven't had the problem since. He's very happy with it.
- pjmlp 8y agoI also tried to. The first thing they did on my absence was having a local PC store install XP again on it, because they couldn't use any of the software for their devices. Nowadays they just use Windows and I am confident any local PC store will take care of their issues, instead of having me deal with them.
- simion314 8y agoThe article mentions that first you check how they use the computer, transition them to free software apps, after that transition to Linux. To check if their hardware works you can use a Live session, check the video, sound, network,printer.scanner etc
- daveFNbuck 8y agoThat sounds like a lot more work to get the same desired result of no more support calls.
- simion314 8y agoWhat exactly? Plugin an USB then opening Firefox on youtube and watching a video, then try to print something? Is this more work then reinstalling Windows, do all windows updates, reinstall all the apps, restore the data , each time something fishy starts happening and you are not sure if the computer was infected?
- daveFNbuck 8y agoInstalling Linux on your parents' computer and then having them give up and get support from a local store is less work for you than properly teaching them to use Linux before installing it on their computer and then providing support whenever they have issues.
- simion314 8y agoIt depends, i would not recommend this for all cases, as the article mentions it worked because this following things applied 1 you were already wasting your time when visiting the parents on fixing the computer 2 the parents were transitioned to the Linux cmpatible applications like Firefox,Chrome, VLC, 3 all the parents workflows were accounted for and were met by Linux 4 the switch is done to Ubuntu LTS and not some exotic distribution 5 training is done on how to accomplish the new workflows If the conditions above do not apply then you should not attempt this, send them to a repair shop to format and reinstall their OS. For some workflows that most parents do Linux is good enough, my parents only use the browser,FB and YT apps(on a tablet).
- excalibur 8y agoMy nitpick is about some of the inconsistencies. You said that you got them accustomed to Firefox and LibreOffice, and then you turned around and installed Chrome and MS Office in Wine. Does that mean they didn't take well to the new apps, and your user training method wasn't entirely successful?
- chucky_z 8y agoThe author explicitly states why they did this. Chrome for Netflix and Spotify only, and Office 2007 because it's better than LibreOffice for their parents.
- hsivonen 8y agoThey work in Firefox if you check the “Play DRM content” checkbox in the preferences.
- l1am0 8y agoThey use firefox as main browser, but for using DRM content I found Chrome to be the easier solution. They worked their way to LibreOffice, but regarding spell- and grammar-checking LibreOffice really sucks. As my dad does professional writing it was just not enough.
- gnulinux 8y ago(disclaimer I never used Chrome) What's the problem with Firefox and Netflix? I never had an issue?
- wink 8y agoI don't remember details but I also had major problems there, must have been two years ago, in the summer. Updating the needed plugins stopped working for some reason. Can't comment on current state as I haven't used Netflix on Linux for quite a while.
- excalibur 8y ago
- daveFNbuck 8y ago> It is not FOSS, but I did install google chrome as it was the easiest for watching netflix I haven't had to do tech support for my parents on this, but I find that the best and easiest way to do streaming media is via a set-top box like Roku or Fire TV. The interface is simple and you'd probably rather be watching on your TV than your monitor anyway.
- bproven 8y agoThis part is critical: 1) Sit down with your folks and talk trough their daily usage of their computer (Please be not so arrogant to think you already know it all) As technologists this all comes easy to us and it is easy to forget what everyday computer usage means.
- agumonkey 8y agosometimes even double clicking has to be discussed
- osrec 8y agoI switched my family to elementaryOS and Google docs. It was more than enough for their needs. I can't remember the last time anyone in my family used Windows or MacOS, and I don't think they miss either.
- dsr_ 8y agoMy father was willing to switch, my mother was not. So: my father is now on his third Linux machine in 16 years (two laptops and now a NUC hiding behind a 24" monitor). Normal updates are handled automatically; I do a major upgrade once a year. rsnapshot backs up to an external disk three times a day. Every so often he tells me that he wants to do something new, and asks if it's possible; the answer is always yes. My mother is on her fifth computer in that time. She's always unhappy with it, but refuses to change, because she's afraid that Linux will be incompatible with the new service-du-jour that her friends are always adopting.
- gotorazor 8y agoThat’s the biggest problem I see to Linux adoption in these scenarios. Unless it is something super geeky, nobody makes client softwares for desktop Linux.
- michaelmrose 8y agoThe web is currently the most popular client.
- brightball 8y agoThis has actually been one of the big perks of Electron.
- pjmlp 8y agoI think you mean the Web.
- 0xcde4c3db 8y agoFrom that perspective, the problem isn't so much the proliferation of service providers but rather the proliferation of aggressively proprietary protocols. By that I mean services that don't merely fail to document and stabilize their protocols, but actively attack and undermine third-party clients. Some of them outright ban third-party clients in their ToS, some theoretically allow third-party clients but impose API limits that are unusable at scale, and some deliberately make API/protocol changes to break clients created via reverse engineering. Anything short of that gets some kind of native Linux client if it gets popular. That stance, in turn, is driven by business considerations that would probably be a huge tangent to discuss here. But it's important to keep in mind that this isn't just how things have always been; it's a relatively new trend, and trends can reverse.
- simplicio 8y agoI always thought a good line for Canonical to get into would be to release a "Granny-buntu" distro that was super-locked down that grandkids could set up for their elders once and then ideally have a few easily identified launchers on the desktop that would launch with sensible defaults, and nothing else.
- l1am0 8y agoYou could do this yourself, by setting a root account for your admin work and an unprivileged account for your parents. With that setup is not so easy to nuke things over. (But a backup is still important :D)
- icebraining 8y agoAn unprivileged account can still do stuff like accidentally hide the toolbar or delete some shortcut to an application. The machine still boots, but it's effectively unusable.
- benbristow 8y agoI'd probably install Google Chrome over Firefox by default. Usually slightly better with compatibility as most developers target Chrome first and has Flash support for even the oldest of sites.
- avatarbl 8y agoI would have switched to Chromebook, based on the usage pattern.
- code_duck 8y agoI switched my mother to Linux years ago and it was much better for her than Windows. These days, though, Chromebooks are even better since they are essentially Linux and much more foolproof than a general purpose Linux distro.
- quattrofan 8y agoWould love to switch myself but with a 4k XPS had all kinds of scaling issues and gave up which was a shame. Considering typical Linux user probably has cutting edge hardware was surprised how poorly 4k was handled.
- kakarot 8y agoWhat desktop environments did you try? Linux itself is oblivious to 4k, that's a job for drivers and DEs. Before you gave up, did you try switching DEs or looking for better drivers? GNOME, for example, supports HiDPI and (experimental) fractional scaling. [0] [0] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#GNOME https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#GNOME
- mixmastamyk 8y agoI use Ubuntu mate on a 4k xps and it works quite nicely. There is a double dpi button in the tweak app.
- rb808 8y agoIt would be great if you could install Chromeos on any hardware. I guess Chromeboxes/books/bits are cheap enough.
- Toutou 8y agoYou kinda can. e.g. https://www.neverware.com/freedownload https://www.neverware.com/freedownload
- unknowns 8y agoI have sent my father (who I no longer interact with) and my mother, a laptop with ubuntu installed. I have not had to support that thing for 5 years. it just runs. no updates, no virus scan ads. Its been amazing. i installed VLC player and firefox. They are living the life being "connected"
- michaelmrose 8y agoNo updates for 5 years including security updates?
- unknowns 8y agoNo updates at all. Its not my problem and I have expressed the dangers. Family situation prevents this kind of support and they wont stop using it. No issues at all. My fiance's aunt on the other hand (using windows) has had to call me frequently for virus/slow down/connecting printers etc.Its been a pain.
- faitswulff 8y ago> Show them the app store and tell them, whatever they install from there is safe (so no viruses or something) Is this generally true for Ubuntu? I'm not terribly familiar with it, but i was under the impression that vetting apps is a difficult problem in general.
- SamWhited 8y agoI did the same thing a while back, except that I used Fedora because everything in Ubuntu crashed constantly on their old hardware and half the drivers wouldn't work. When their old Dell finally died, they decided to get a new one and asked me which they should get. I pointed them at the previous gen XPS (that still had USB-A ports) and they bought one with Ubuntu on it out of the box without asking questions and don't appear to know the difference (they did ask me if I could change the trash icon back to the old one, because they didn't like how "blue" the new one was… but that was a minor change compared to my dads work machine being upgraded to Windows 10 so I think they're okay with it for now). So far they seem happy with it; hopefully more laptops ship with Ubuntu or similar in the future.
- dj_brown_sugar 8y agoI'm curious how it actually saved you headache and support calls? Your general process of switching them over was well thought out, but I can't see how this really helps either of you. In my experience Linux requires a lot more command-line tweaking and such to get basic things working, but then again that could be for my more advanced use cases. So the only benefit I can see is that it is more privacy focused and safer than Windows, but at the cost of a limited application selection (through the Ubuntu App Store at least).
- l1am0 8y agoI have no clue why, but Linux (with the current Ubuntu) setup crashed a lot less than Win 10. As I mention in the blog post, sure it is not suitable for every situation. So if you have an advanced use case, you need to do more tweaking. (I do this with my own system as well) But for my parents use case it worked out of the box. And installing a new printer did work flawless because of CUPS :D
- mrweasel 8y ago>In my experience Linux requires a lot more command-line tweaking and such to get basic things working I don't think that true if you just need a browser, email and an office suite. One key element could be hardware, I still feel like desktops are a better choice than a laptop, in terms of getting everything working correctly.
- gnulinux 8y agoThere are tons of people using linux distros who don't even know command line exists. One time I was helping my friend to do something. She studies design and is basically computer illiterate. Somehow she was using Ubuntu, not sure how that happened but she claimed to be very happy. Anyway, the problem was super simple, but as an i3 archlinux user I literally never use GUI so I fired a command line and solved it in one line. She was perplexed and wasn't really sure what just happened. She didn't even know what command line is. Anyway, to be more helpful, I also managed to solve the problem by clicking buttons...
- city41 8y agoI run Ubuntu on three machines and never in a million years would I set it up for my parents. I still struggle with lots of little gotchas and annoying issues like sometimes it just doesn't want to suspend. Or sometimes after resuming, the keyboard doesn't work so gotta unplug it and plug it back in. Sometimes my wifi just conks out for no apparent reason. On and on, just lots of little paper cuts. I switched my parents over to OSX years ago and have had to do almost no tech support at all. I really like Linux, but I still would argue that the OS that "just works" the most is still OSX.
- bor0 8y agoExactly why I switched from Xubuntu to Mac 5 years ago. I just want to do my work, not fix my system after every minor upgrade.
- bigbugbag 8y agoThe reccurring issue people seem to have with linux is that they use ubuntu. Just use a decent distro instead and see if that fixes your issues.
- vetinari 8y agoEven Ubuntu is fine (this is coming from Fedora fan). If you are going for the long haul, do the following: - use LTS. You don't need every 6-mo release. - don't install packages from random ppas, if you don't know what they are doing to your system. Of course, do not install anything not managed by repositories, that would break your system (If I had a dime for every person that installed hplip/nvidia driver/etc from HP/Nvidia/etc site and just overwritten their apt-managed system files. It worked... until upgrade). My parents also use Ubuntu; they are using it since 6.06, on the current hardware since 12.04. Upgrading them between LTS releases is non-event, aside the UI changes.
- jammygit 8y agoI always found Ubuntu to be easiest to use. No fighting to get GPU drivers to work, or other weird issues. Easy to install things when I was first learning too. Edit: I meant to ask what people are using that's more stable. Fedora you need to reinstall every few months, Debian has some 'rules to not break Debian' that seem to make it special purpose, centos hates my GPU, trisquel gets very rare updates. I know that all of this is solvable, but Ubuntu seems simpler to set and forget. Gnome is buggy though. I love it but I sure wish it ran better
- hamilyon2 8y agoSkype is not mentioned on the page. I guess, we live in different realities.
- slim 8y agoSkype works well on linux
- sliken 8y agoSometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It's been pretty much down hill since then. Had multiple cases where the client works, and the web links don't. Or the weblinks work and the client doesn't. Sometimes calls work... but not receiving invites... or vice versa. All the users I knew that used skype regularly have fled.
- mrweasel 8y agoThe only people I know that uses Skype are people working for large companies and they only use it because their employers tell them to. I think it has to do with how your countries telcos developed. If phone calls a cheap, why would you care about Skype? WhatsApp, Telegram and other messaging services seem to be popular around the world, but, perhaps because SMS quickly became basically free here, everyone just use that.
- lazyasciiart 8y agoPhone calls across the world are still not cheap.
- walshemj 8y agoNot in the US where I suspect a majority of HN readers come from.
- Marsymars 8y agoI'd be interested to see numbers. I'd guess plurality, but not majority.
- Proven 8y agoCan't see why they changed in the first place and the article doesn't explain what and why the wasted time occurred. With Windows you can have Live-based logins and out of band password resets as well as stateless sandboxed containers. If they save everything to One Drive there's nothing to change or backup on the OS. I am a heavy Linux user, by the way. Yeah, it sucks less than before but for daily use by regular users Windows is still hard to beat, especially for general productivity apps.
- jaredandrews 8y agoJust to add another anecdote... Back in 2008 or so, my relatives did the really nice thing of buying my Grandma the cheapest possible Walmart computer they could find. You know the sort of Windows eMachine that comes preinstalled with spyware? Of course, my relatives live about 6 hours away from her and all of the "on site support" fell to me. In the first 2 years of my Grandma getting this computer I must have gone over more than 10 times to fix all sorts of stupid issues that were pretty much inherent to the machine. I grew sick of this and one day I went over, backed up the few important files on the machine and installed linux mint. That was in 2010, it is now 2019 and I have gone over to fix my Grandmas computer twice since. Once to help her set up a printer, and another time when she accidentally cleared her cookies and couldn't figure out how to log back into anything. The strange thing is that my Grandma never commented on the Mint interface and as far as I can tell she never noticed that I completely changed the operating system ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- gambiting 8y agoSo my personal anecdote also involves mint - I've set one up for someone years ago(probably around 2013-2014) and you're right, it had no issues. However, when I came over to visit last year I wanted to do some maintenance, so "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" would be the start. Nope, turns out that the update servers for that version of Mint have been switched off long time ago and none of the links resolve anymore. Upgrading the apt server list just resulted in hundreds of errors when actually trying to upgrade the system. At this point I stopped, worried that I'm just going to break everything. After that, I had a realization - yes, the system ran for 4 years without any maintenance, but it also received no updates and no patches whatsoever during that time, because linux does not do that by default(or at least Mint didn't). And then the only issues my windows-using family have is 90% of the time due to....windows updates. Things are not where they used to be, some application changed so it's now different, they had something open and the computer restarted itself....the usual. And while that is a problem....at least their machines are always patched and up to date. That Mint installation was running in the same state that it was in the day I set it up, and after just few years it couldn't even be updated any more(to my best effort). That's pretty bad too.
- 8y ago
- tbiteteitb 8y agoIt seems that for every Linux discussion on HN there's always user spreading some kind of FUD based on personal experiences from 2011. Glad to read so many success comments on this discussion BTW.
- jamiek88 8y agoDissent and sharing opinions and experience is not a campaign of ‘FUD’. There is no cabal ganging up to share misinformation on Linux. Please give more credit to those you disagree with and assume their intentions are like, I presume yours are: to share your opinion and experiences.
- tbiteteitb 8y agoI don't want to engage with no one in particular. And You are right, giving Your opinion does not mean it's FUD. But if You pay attention, you'll see that for some folks here Linux it's never an option or solution they will take and are pretty vocal about it.
- lazyasciiart 8y agoYes, and for some folks Linux is always the solution and they are pretty vocal about it.
- sbuk 8y agoAnd by the same token; in fact on this thread, there are many that feel the same way towards macOS and Windows. Plenty of anecdotes right here that could be construed as FUD. I use all 3 platforms frequently and I can tell you that they are all as “bad” as one another.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- alexandernst 8y agoI did the same with my parents. At first, it worked good enough. But soon the support calls started again, and they shifted from "my PC is slow" to "how to I connect X to my PC", being "X" anything from "printers" to "Point&shoot cameras" to "my iPhone so I can transfer my photos". Unpopular opinion: I just switched them again, this time to Mac. 0 support calls since then.
- throw7 8y agoI've done this for my parents for close to 10 years now. Been able to give them a stable gui environment over the years going from Gnome2 to MATE. Mozilla Suite to Seamonkey to combo Firefox/Seamonkey email client. Really, the biggest issue is that websites will complain about seamonkey/firefox, saying things like "your browser not supported", "please upgrade your browser", etc.
- yawaramin 8y agoWhen it comes to parents, a 'tech support call' is not just a tech support call, it's a chance for them to talk to their kids.
- mpweiher 8y agoSo this comes down to "After I switched my parents to Linux, they don't want to talk to me any more"...
- code_duck 8y agoIt can be. Not in my brother’s case, though - he lived with my parents and my mother used to harass him about computer problems daily. Linux helped, but now she has a Chromebook and her computer problems come down to confusion about where and how she is signed in.
- Svip 8y agoI don't mind talking to my parents or grandparents, but I just want our conversations to be about something else than computers. There is nothing worse than being with your family, and constantly dreading the moment they are going to ask about 'fixing their computer'. It makes one look forward to talk with one's (grand)parents.
- noir_lord 8y agoI hate that as well. I got in from work on Friday and got handed an ipad that wouldn't connect to the wifi and a laptop that has some weird malware. I love my family but after a hard days programming dealing with that stuff is tiresome.
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- michaelmrose 8y agol1am0, did you consider abiword for a simpler word processor?
- l1am0 8y agoI never worked with it, but will give it a try for my daily work (y) Currently I use following setup for myself: LibreOffice + languagetool for spelling
- Odenwaelder 8y agoObligatory read: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/in-which-i-fix-my-girlfriends-grandparents-wifi-and-am-hailed-as-a-conquering-hero https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/in-which-i-fix-my-girlfr...
- balls187 8y agoConvinced my mom to get an iPad Pro, and a keyboard case. She has never been happier. My dad is a tech savvy, but now that he travels 80% a year for retirement, he prefers an ipad as well (even gave me his macbook pro).
- moron4hire 8y agoAll of my tech support calls from family are about smartphones (both Android and iOS, but more for iOS, "what do you mean I can't do that?"). Well, and getting the email server switched to something more reliable than Gmail, but that's a business tech support call, technically.
- jcoffland 8y ago> Do yourself a favor and use standard Ubuntu. Do yourself a favor and use standard Debian. Honestly, I don't know why anyone bothers with Ubuntu anymore. It doesn't really add much over Debian except for it's shitty release cycle.
- swayvil 8y agoI was thinking the same thing. Ubuntu is getting hoggy and commercial. And the default desktop, ick. (Can you get Mate for that?) I use Debian + Mate mself. Install it on my clients' machines too. People like it.
- mixmastamyk 8y agoUbuntu mate is great. What about the shitty release cycle? I find it easy to understand, unlike Debian.
- jcoffland 8y agoDebian has a rolling release. Very easy to understand. Ubuntu has 6-month releases and LTS releases. In my experience, upgrading Ubuntu often fails and requires manual intervention whereas Debian upgrades just work. If you get a few years behind on Ubuntu upgrades you either have to reinstall or apply each upgrade in sequence.
- swayvil 8y agoLikewise, no probs at all in the install or upgrades ever. Debian is the preferred laptop OS on the International Space Station, btw.
- icebraining 8y agoDebian Stable, which is the default, is not rolling. Debian has 2-year releases (Stable), a rolling release that occasionally freezes (Testing) and an actual rolling release (Unstable/Sid). Personally I've been using Unstable on my laptop for over a decade without any real issues, but then again I keep a very lean desktop (LXDM + awesome), so there is little to go wrong compared to a full DE.
- glenrivard 8y agoDid the same but switched them to a Chromebook. Basically dropped support calls to zero. Funny story. Sunday morning I get a panic call from them that the computer will NOT power on. They tell me they are pushing the power button and the screen displays "It is safe to turn off the computer". For some reason it was not clicking. Actually drive over there as my curiosity was killing me. Did you guess it? Turned out they were hitting the power switch on the monitor. I was speechless. I felt like such an idiot it didn't dawn on me.
- gtirloni 8y agoI first tried to switch family to LibreOffice but existing Office documents kept getting corrupted (especially complex spreadsheets). That was a deal breaker. Last attempt was as recent as last year
- williamdclt 8y agoWhat about Google docs? I find that it does a great job
- oever 8y agoGoogle Docs seriously mangles ODF documents.
- napolux 8y agoFunny how this is not true for mobile phones. If your parents have an iphone they won't have any problem. My dad with android has a problem with spyware, or similar, once a week. I gave him my old iphone 6, let's see....
- williamdclt 8y agoI really would like to do the same. My father is always complaining about Windows problems that just don't happen with Mint/Ubuntu, and my mom has an machine that's too weak and old to run windows properly. The one thing that prevent me to do that is that they use their computer for work. While I'm certain that I wouldn't have any problem doing their job with Linux, they ask me "can you absolutely guarantee that I'll be able to open and edit any Word document and that it'll look the same when I send it? Or that I won't have any problem with video conferencing?" Well... No. I'm fairly certain, but I can't take the responsability in case I'm wrong
- y4mi 8y agoI can guarantee you that there is no equivalent to word on Linux. All compatible office suites display word documents differently, and none come close to feature parity if we're talking about advanced macros and similar. There is no alternative to Windows If they need Microsoft office for work... Or a VM just to run that shitty application. Same applies to video conferencing software. If he is forced to use a specific tool, he'll probably be be plain out of luck. Most can't host the conferences from Linux. Thankfully, most people don't need word or one specific brand of video conferencing software... So using Linux would still be an option to a lot of people
- jmkni 8y ago> no equivalent ... > that shitty application Pick one!
- y4mi 8y agoyou clearly didn't understood the point i was trying to make. I don't like Word and thankfully, don't need it myself. I'm perfectly fine with word.office.com and google docs, as I neither need nor want the advanced features. I also don't mind if the document has an occasionally entirely different layout and sometimes even an entirely broken one. If you are forced to use the doc/docx formats and need to share these files with other people, you'll be forced to use Microsoft Office and by extension Windows. There is no viable alternative. all alternatives only work if you only need to produce PDFs and don't need to collaboratively edit said doc/docx and exactly the same applies to the video conferencing tools. If you can choose your own, appear.in works fine from linux for example. If you need to use Ciscos or SAPs (for example) video conferencing tools, you'll be plain out of luck on linux, unless you're fine just joining other peoples sessions (never hosting one yourself)
- isostatic 8y agoI got my parents and mother-in-law to get a chromebook. Never had a question.
- bschwindHN 8y agoMy mom has been on a chromebook for years and I only occasionally get easy help questions. For simple web browser usage it doesn't get much easier.
- tarasmatsyk 8y agoAwesome, I enjoyed a lot the article and found it to be the best guide on how to switch parents over to Linux :D My fav part is cheating with SSD, made my day!
- UncleBumbleFuck 8y agoEh... Spotify provides dedicated app for Linux users. No need to use Google Chrome for that.
- mpg33 8y ago90% of the issues when it comes to tech and my parents is dealing with accounts(aka setting up accounts and keeping track of usernames and passwords).
- neodypsis 8y agoI can relate to this. I tried, unsuccessfully, to teach my parents to use a password manager (e.g., KeepassXC).
- rootoor 8y agoMy 97 year old grandpa has a MacBook Pro and a few years back he was constantly on the phone with my mom trying to fix issues. We installed a Remote Desktop server so my mom could fix things quickly. After a visit we diagnosed the problem. Because of his poor motorskills, he was clicking and clicking-and-dragging things by accident. To mitigate this, we installed some software that locked the applications in the dock and got him a mouse with a ball you move with your thumb. The problems disappeared overnight.
- Synaesthesia 8y agoYou should get him an iPad or consider it. My grandpa who’s 94 won’t use anything else. That said he’s probably used to the setup now.
- turings_ego 8y agoMy family recently got my mother's parents (100 and 98 who live independently) a grandpad. It's a closed network social media, meaning people have to be invited to it. It is designed for old people. They figured out how to navigate it themselves in ten minutes. It can call, video call, and leave mass voicemails. From the children/grandchildren perspective, nothing has changed as it has Facebook and instagram integration, so we dont have to post on it directly.
- sgt 8y agoMy grandmother (100) just phoned me using FaceTime on her iPad. I find this insanely cool. She was born during World War 1, experienced World War 2 and is now able to enjoy modern technology to get in touch with her family. The only issue she has is accidentally touching the screen.
- martimarkov 8y agoThere is a setting for that in iOS. It’s somewhere in accessibility
- bigbugbag 8y ago
- owaislone 8y agoI used to install Linux on any computer I could find 10 years ago. Friends, family, fellow students, college labs (yes!) and had almost the Linux snob but I learned the same thing. Some fairly non-technical people I introduce to Linux are still using Ubuntu to this day and they actually feel totally lost when they have to use a Windows computer. They feel like pulling their hair when they have to use a Windows computer for some reason. I've since calmed down and don't "preach" it anymore because of the "support calls" as I don't have a ton of free time and energy I had 10 years ago but I can totally relate to OP. Once I set a laptop up with Ubuntu and install apps that people need, they go without asking for help for _years_. Only issues people used to call me for were when they had to access documents that Ubuntu wasn't able to deal with properly like MS Office docs or old CDs with auto-play apps. Better broadband speeds almost completely fixed that problem on it's own.
- sgt 8y agoMany years ago I idealistically tried to switch my dad over to Linux but that was a nightmare, mostly due to hardware incompatibilities. My missus also ran Linux at some point but Ubuntu upgrades kept breaking and 3G modem drivers never worked properly. But that's years ago so I am sure the desktop Linux situation has improved slightly. Since about 2010 my entire family is on Mac and support calls have also pretty much ended. When I read some of these other threads, it seems like it's accepted that parents/grandparents do nothing else than just open up a web browser. That hasn't been my experience at all. They buy printers, scanners, use apps from the app store, try to connect new and strange cameras, card readers, external screens (try simply connecting an external 4K screen to a random Linux computer, I guarantee you'll get a few surprises). My dad's recently got into 3D printing (keep in mind he's a consumer, not an expert) and Fusion 360 would not even have run on Windows. He would not have been able to figure out FreeCAD either.
- drewg123 8y agoThat's pretty much my experience with my inlaws. They got one of these cheap Walmart computers in 2002 or so. After one too many disasters (computer slow due to antivirus sw, Windows update failed, etc), I switched them to Linux for a few years. But that was a problem due to hardware compatibility, especially with their printer. I ended up having an iMac to give them in 2007 (after I'd switched from FreeBSD to Mac, and decided I could not stand the Mac UI & switched back to FreeBSD on another whitebox). They've been on Mac ever since, now on a Mini we bought them a few years ago. Pretty much no support calls since then. A few times a year I make sure they're doing sw updates and haven't installed dodgy Chrome extensions or toolbars, but that's about it.
- bigbugbag 8y agoHardware incompatibilities goes both way stuff that won't work on windows or that requires some obscure/bloated driver will work plug and play on linux. Depends on the hardware and the work put on it but the opensource people. Many people have their first linux experience with ubuntu which is a shame seeing how this distribution is riddled with problems that are not being addressed because the distro is going to be binned in 6 months anyway and devs have to work on the next release. I agree with you, daily usage is mostly a web browser / email client but there's also all the uncommon stuff and exotic hardware except my experience is that 70-80% of time you plug it and it just works, 10% of time it requires some web searching and meddling with installing/configuring somethins and 10% of time it will not work (85% of those are apple devices). There's also one important thing to take into account, in 2010 Mac were repairable and serviceable, since 2012 repairability of Mac is abysmal and consistently get the worst score on fixit. The long list of Apple engineering failures[1] adds to the idea that getting Mac just to be able to run OSX is not as good as it was in 2010. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8
- wordpressdev 8y agoMy parents were on Human OS, never tried to switch them to Linux. Have I missed something?
- jeena 8y agoI too have an anecdote... I am a family friend to a older couple, and for reasons I don't want to discus, the wife who was doing all the needed things on the computer like paying the bills, checking the bank balance, checking emails, printing, etc.; and suddenly now at the age of 72 he needed to learn to do those things. It was not easy, especially because there is nobody who can teach you how to pay your bills, and if you want to pay a bill of say 8 EUR, you need to pay a fee of 10 EUR if you go to the bank in Sweden and do it there. He had an old Toshiba laptop which was not usable anymore (that is why they bought a new laptop some years ago which his wife took with her), so I installed a lightweight Ubuntu version on it, installed Thunderbird and Firefox and connected the printer. It took quite many times for me to show him how to log in into the bank account and how to pay the bills, and he still struggles with it sometimes, but at least the OS itself is not hindering him in doing what he needs to do. There are basically two icons when he opens the computer and then he opens the browser and writes the bank name into the search field and then google shows him the website so he can log in and do the thing.
- barbecue_sauce 8y agoDad has a really shitty Toshiba laptop (previously running Windows 10), barely uses it, but it was clearly infected with something. Weird alerts at all hours of the night over its speakers saying that a virus was detected. Has had a Norton subscription for years, but hasn't really done any good. My Dad was constantly complaining about not being able to log in (though I suspect he was really forgetting his password). Switched him over to Linux Mint a few weeks ago. I had to fight with some driver issues for the wireless card, but so far he's had no complaints.
- paulie_a 8y agoYears ago I suggested my bosses wife switch to a Mac after having to do endless tech support for her fucking the system up. She still managed to fuck up the Mac and ask for help. But I don't know Macs so I couldn't help. After the 100th or so malware they got I told them very emphatically they should change their bank account info, knowing full well it would be a huge pain in the ass for them. Yes I was a dick, but they were stupid. And they stole 600k from the federal government.
- amelius 8y agoMy parents use tablets for everything. Not sure what version of Linux would run on a tablet, and what tablet they should buy.
- m45t3r 8y agoI remember years ago I setup a XFCE desktop on my Arch Linux to my mom, since I was tired to fixing the problems that my PC got every time she wanted to use it. I just explained: this is "the internet" (Firefox), this is Word (OpenOffice.org Writter), this is Excel (OpenOffice.org Calc), everything else you can come to me and ask (I lived with her). This did reduce the number of reinstallations I had to do, and I don't remember she ever asking for some actual problem (mostly some basic questions). Nowadays she only uses her smartphone and it is much easier to avoid problems. Since she doesn't blind install apps before asking me if they're safe too, her smartphone is clean.
- qrybam 8y agoI installed Ubuntu on our spare laptop for general web browsing and day to day use. My wife used it for about a year. Not a week went by when I didn't hear about something not working. Granted, it's probably because I didn't spare enough time to set things up like our network printer and installing Office via Wine (she wasn't impressed with the FOSS alternative). I finally bit the bullet, bought a Windows licence and haven't looked back since.... Some things I'd be happy to put myself through, but would avoid inflicting on my non-techy family members.
- bigbugbag 8y agoSwitched my whole family on Linux 15+ years ago, call for support went down dramatically maybe 95% now versus then. There was a few hiccups along the way to find a suitable distro, dropping ubuntu was a huge improvement in this. Most recent major issue is when Mozilla decided that they would remove support for ALSA with mentioning it in changelog on a ESR release and suddenly there was no sound in online videos and I had to scramble to replace firefox on a dozen of computers. Almost all computers can be remotely administered over a secure connection, they have automated backups and most have unattended upgrade. Issue arise when KDE releases half baked stuff and changes the way things worked, Mozilla messes firefox some more and systemd is being systemd. Once in while there is this family member who is too clueless/proud to admit he messed up who broke something or did not find way something obvious.
- gerdesj 8y agoI've solely been using Linux as a workstation at home and work for about 12 years now. I used to use Gentoo on both and then switched to Arch, mainly to save my lap from melting and speed up updating. When we got wifey her first laptop about 10 years ago, I naturally put Windows 7 on it - it was what she expected. I've also been a Windows (and NetWare 8) sysadmin for rather a longer time than Linux. It was OK (Windows 7) but the MS updates were a pain (slow) and I had problems with the GPU drivers and I had to keep on finding updates for each package/app installed. The GPU driver thing was unusual to me but happened and this was wifeys only machine and hence it was a thing. I binned Win 7 in a final fit of pique. I backed it up and turned it into a VM (just in case) and installed Arch on the physical machine. That was three laptops ago. Each time I back it up using Clonezilla and dump it back on the next one and extend the file system to fill the new, bigger disc. To update her laptop I ssh into it, run the update routine (aurman -Syu) whilst she is using it and schedule a reboot late at night. Normally, she does not even notice except that I do mention I'm doing it and to save open files (OK . The reason I use a rolling distro by choice for workstations is because it is always up to date and there are no discontinuities in the lifecycle. I do not use a rolling distro for my servers (any more) for them I generally use LTS Ubuntu releases. All my Linux (and FreeBSD) boxes update everything when updated and they do it quickly and without much fuss. My Windows and Apples do not update everything. They need each and every add on updated separately. That takes ages and you need to know that something is actually installed. A FOSS box updates everything on an update ... everything.
- lgleason 8y agoI switched my dad over to Chrome OS and never looked back. Now he tells all of this fiends to do the same thing because it's so much simpler. I really wish there was a better open source alternative because Google is evil these days but...
- tgsovlerkhgsel 8y agoThis. With Linux you still end up having to fix stuck updates or some other small thing at least once a year (and with Ubuntu, reinstall at least every 4 years to stay on a supported LTS release), the hardware compatibility is usually kind-of-but-not-entirely OK, and the UX is nowhere near as user friendly. With a Chromebook, you put it in front of them, set it up, show them, and if it breaks, you can ship them a new one from Amazon, remind them where they have written down their password, get them to sign back in, and done.
- Baeocystin 8y agoAre Mint Boxes still available? I just checked at https://linuxmint.com/store_mintbox.php https://linuxmint.com/store_mintbox.php , and they appear to be out of stock, but maybe that's a temporary thing. That being said, yeah, all family members in the Momputer class of usership have been upgraded to ChromeOS devices. They, to a one, love them, too.
- SiVal 8y agoYes, I think the ChromeBook idea is probably the best "computer as managed appliance" for our older relatives these days, BUT I really would prefer to get the OS from a company that didn't have so much interest in surveilling and managing society.
- steelframe 8y agoIt's a bit of a chore, but you can switch off surveillance on Chromebooks through a series of configuration changes: https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/keep-google-spying-kids-chromebook https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/keep-google-spying-kids-c... Combine with the usual DuckDuckGo, Apple Maps/OpenStreetMap, Posteo, uBlock Origin, and friends, and you have a pretty good maintenance-free privacy solution.
- PatronBernard 8y ago>GIMP for Image Editing L.O.L.
- zapzupnz 8y agoI got all my grandparents iPads. The only tech support calls I get is when they forget their Apple ID passwords. Thankfully, I know them all.
- grogenaut 8y agotill you're on vacation and they go to the apple store and they "helpfully" set a secure password on the device. Happened to my mom. She doesn't always remember to write things down. Now I'm on a 3 way call with apple trying to get the password reset for an hour then talking her through resetting it on her several devices. They wouldn't let her set what she thought the password was.
- acqq 8y agoYes, recent iOS updates tried to force people like my parents to have passwords or logins that are too complex and simply unnecessary for them. If you use iPad in your own home, there's no reason to "authenticate" on every open (my parents surely don't want/can't perform the fingerprinting every time -- not to mention that if the device prompt them to enter a new complex code they might even type in twice but they will never remember it, or be prepared to write it down first, the expect the device to "just work" and not to have to maintain some other external notice book with the access codes, and I fully understand that). It's not easy to match the security "requirements" and general "common" use. The iPad of my parents (that they use mostly at home) seems to insist on more complex security procedures for my parents to watch the pictures of the kids than the procedures which secured the launch US nuclear missiles (the later had simply the code 00000000 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/launch-code-for-us-nukes-was-00000000-for-20-years/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/launch-code-for-... ). Balancing the security and usability is hard.
- zapzupnz 8y agoWe did think about not having pin codes or Touch ID enabled, but there are enough kids visiting my grandparents that the one thing we're afraid of is them deleting their files, mail, sending messages, etc. Thankfully, none of them forget their PIN codes. My grandmother also has Touch ID on her iPad, even easier.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- hanshenrik 8y agoJust want to say that Xubuntu remind me a lot of win7, and they're not even trying to be windows-ish! (.. at least not officially?)
- zozbot123 8y agoXfce in general reminds me a lot of WinXP - the good parts of WinXP, of course. There's another thread at the time I'm writing, discussing what was good about the Win98 interface - WinXP kept a lot of that interface, and Xfce, LXDE, even MATE are rather reminiscent of it. I even find the GTK3 interface quite a bit cleaner than what we got with Windows 8/10. (As an aside, I kinda expect Xfce, LXDE and MATE to converge in the near future. Now that essentially all of them are moving to GTK3, there seems to be very little reason for them not to standardize on a uniform set of underlying components and tools.)
- NuSkooler 8y agoI switched my mom from Windows to Linux years ago and have not had a single issue since. Actually, the only real issue I have is her distro is now so old it's well beyond LTS and I'll have to probably re-install to do any upgrades.
- mrmyers 8y agoThis has been my experience as well. So, background: I've maintained computers for various people close to me for maybe 6-7 years or so. A couple computers for my mom (laptop and desktop, with both replaced once or twice), two laptops for some younger cousins going through middle/highschool, a desktop for an aunt, and 2 of my girlfriend's laptops over the same period. At first, I was very pessimistic about how well it would turn out. For my cousins, the thing that drove me to it was observing how overrun their computers were with viruses, adware, and spyware from all the .exe files they randomly downloaded which claimed to be games, to the point where their computers were more or less unusable (their fans would be blowing full speed and the whole thing overheating from the moment they started, it was kind of surreal). My mom had similar issues, though not quite as bad, mostly from email stuff. Over time, I grew a bit more confident in being able to manage this sort of thing, and now it's my default for this sort of situation. So, some of the benefits I've noticed: 1. It's a lot easier to dictate terminal commands over the phone or through email than to walk someone through gui operations. If the person struggles enough with computer stuff that they can't even manage with the help of 'user friendly' interfaces, optimizing for the ease with which you can trouble-shoot and fix things over the phone is a lot more practical than chasing after the lost cause of finding a friendly enough interface for them to manage on their own. You can write an important terminal command on a post-it-note next to their compute. You can attach a shell script to an email. Or, with a little bit of setup, you can just ssh into their machine remotely whenever they're having troubles to fix it from the comfort of your own home. 2. It's very easy to set up a minimal, XP-ish interface where all of their needed programs are just right there in the start menu, and such that it's very hard for them to mess up their system such that that base level of functionality is impared. 3. Runs well on fairly limited hardware. Some general advice if you're considering doing the same: 1. Keep a text-file with all the stuff you installed/changed on the persons computer so you can reproduce it easily in the future. 2. This is more general advice, but have separate / and /home partitions, so you don't need to move their data back and forth if something happens to the OS. 3. Look up issues with their machine and linux ahead of time before trying. It's not always a simple "you can't", sometimes you'll find out there's some firmware you need to install for their wifi to work properly etc. 4. Figure out how much autonomy they should have over their machine. If you're sort of hoping for them to be able to choose and download software on their own, and be able to try to figure out menus to configure stuff, Ubuntu or Linux Mint might be a good choice. Otherwise, surprisingly, Debian might actually be easier for both of you. I've generally found Debian stable just has fewer surprises once it's set up, and you can for the most part just ignore it for years in a way that always seems to go badly when I try it with Ubuntu or Mint, thus lowering the burden on you in maintaining it quite a bit (versus figuring out wtf happened with some random Ubuntu update, or troubleshoot for the umpteenth time how Mint screwed up apt). Decide whether they should actually have sudo privileges or not. 5. Only do it if you're prepared to be their first contact when something happens, and conversely, make absolutely sure they know to contact you first whenever there's a problem. There's nothing more frustrating than a neighbor who thinks they're tech-savy poking in, only to 'fix' things by reinstalling windows, or convincing them they must have a 'virus' because they don't understand what they're looking at. 6. MAKE SURE THE DEFAULT SAVE FORMAT FOR LIBREOFFICE IS doc NOT odf! 7. It'll feel kind of icky, but make sure you have their root password written down on a piece of paper somewhere safe. They will never remember it, and if you give them a piece of paper with it on it and tell them "absolutely do not lose this", they will lose it. Also, more general, but pwqgen is a pretty great program for generating random passwords that are fairly easy to remember. 8. Configure it to work with any home printers they need, and just set their expectations that they will not be able to figure out how to make other people's printers work with their computer. Configuring printers is a discount hell run by a counterfeit Satan. 9. Make sure they have adblock on their browser.
- uvu 8y agoGnu/Linux
- IE6 8y agorms identified
- Myrmornis 8y agoI also switched my parents off Windows to Ubuntu for a while (when I used Linux desktop myself and before OS X). It worked pretty well and didn't cause them too much pain. Subsequently of course I got them to switch to Apple and that's even better, primarily because they don't have to feel that they're using some weird thing their child encouraged them to use. Avoids the Windows nonsense of computer getting slower and slower all the time, and malware. The only thing I've failed to help them with is the baffling Apple stuff surrounding iCloud and storage on multiple devices.
- vonseel 8y agoMy dad needed to play a video file sent to him by a lawyer recently. I assume it wasn’t QuickTime compatible. Well, he couldn’t get in touch with me and installed some crazy video player he paid for on the App Store. I was shocked. Literally, the first result when I search for “video player Mac” on Google is something for VLC. Why is it so hard for less technically knowledgeable users to find reliable, spam/malware/marketing-bullshit free software?
- acct1771 8y agoBecause the market's advertising is geared toward informing them about the malware.
- mmckelvy 8y agoRelated aside, what's the best way to run Microsoft Office on a Linux box? My ideal setup would be Linux for everything but Office programs, which I'd prefer to run in a Windows environment.
- indymike 8y agoI switched my Dad to Linux around 2012, mainly because I couldn't talk him into spending $2000 on a MacBook Pro (he needed a big screen due to vison issues). I love MacBooks for relatives because the Apple Store can and will help... Chromebooks are nice, too because they just don't have issues.
- hpcjoe 8y agoI got fed up with being the family windows support guy. It was really bad when my wife's laptop could not do basic DHCP correctly at $dayjob-1 office. She and daughter had problems with printing, networking, security ... it was horrible. I gave them a few options at the laptop replacement cycle. I said you can do either Linux or Mac, I didn't care which. Mac had always worked well in laptop format for me, though my primary machine has been a linux desktop for about 15 years. I knew both would work without problem. I gave my wife my mac laptop for a week, and she used it. Then I had her play with the linux desktop. I asked her which one she liked better. She opted for Mac. As did my daughter. Just replaced the first one for wife, and daughter had to buy a new one for college anyway. So far, 1 problem on wifes old mac, which turned out to be a hardware problem with the wifi card. Quickly fixed, and pretty much no problems since then. Though I have to help them do system updates. Either Mint or Mac. Both work very well. I even have mint working on my work Mac.
- bashwizard 8y agoI pushed my dad to get an 27" iMac a few years ago. I haven't heard of them since. I hope they are still alive.
- etxm 8y agoThe easiest way to get out of support calls with family is to tell them you work in sales.
- ajuc 8y agoI did the same when I was at university and couldn't help my parents with computer on daily basis anymore. Looking back now, 14 years later - it was a very good decision. They mostly use the browser, some graphic programs and libre office, it doesn't really matter which system runs under that. The've had some version of Kubuntu installed ever since.
- imandride 8y agoInterestingly enough I just installed an ad blocker on the parents Windows 10 machine and I haven't had a support call since.
- kup0 8y agoA NUC-like machine + Linux has worked wonders as a computer for an older family member of mine. We ran into a plethora of update and performance issues with Win10. Installed Linux and never looked back and it's been far more stable.